NBC's _Heroes_

[MJB]

Anybody notice in the flashback scene with Claude on the bridge, it looked like the gun went off by itself? 2 times in fact. HRG looked surprised himself.

I noticed that, didn't know what to make of it but I noticed it.

-MJB

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, same here, not quite sure what was up with it....could it be that our inivisible friend has....other abilities?

[Revenant]

[spoiler]I took that as HRG's surprise at what he'd done. 

Was this the first time he'd shot anyone?  And Claude was someone he'd worked with for years.[/spoiler]

[stumpy]

[spoiler]The first shot looked very much like HRG hadn't planned it and he was shocked. I couldn't tell if it was just that he pulled the trigger by accident (he hadn't meant to yet) and he was surprised by that and by that it hit his friend or if something else was at play. The second shot looked a little odd, too, but it's worth noting that HRG had deliberately raised the gun in a two handed grip and taken aim. But, after that, he fired several more times and they looked deliberate, though we only saw Claude react as though he was hit by the first two shots. When I first watched the scene, I thought that something unusual had triggered the initial shots and that, after that, HRG was playing along because he knew they were being watched. But, there was no follow up on the scene, so I suppose we'll have to wait and see. I can only imagine that the writers will come back to that part of the story to tell us how Claude really got away.

I can say this much, in retrospect, it seems odd to me that HRG would have assumed Claude was really dead. He never confirmed the kill, never found the body or heard/saw an impact in the gorge below the bridge, etc. Maybe HRG told his superiors the job was done when he knew Claude might be alive...


BTW, when Ted was going bazonkers, Matt approached him and was blown all the way across the room. It's no big deal; just an odd thing to portray nuclear effects like conventional chemical explosions.[/spoiler]


BTW, I know it seems like anyone reading the thread must have already caught up with the most current episode, but that's not always the case. We should try and use the spoiler tags , even if it means typing out [spoiler] [/spoiler] when the button isn't available.

[lugaru]

Here's my thoughts so far

[spoiler] This epside was not only great but wow the ending moved me. Now here's some theories:

1) The Petrelly senior killed himself. Did some sort of powers make his life unbearable perhaps?

2) It is possible that they where inhibbiting peoples powers through the implant they have been passing out. This would mean that some sort of a device or heck, even a satelite feed needs to be aranged to do so.

3) Hiro's dad is probably a liason between the american initiative and a larger japanese one. It would be cool if the Japanese initiative is boss and the whole organization is private. That would explain everyone speaking japanese.

4) Could the invisible man be hiding the flying man? He's made it to quite some prominence, is powerful in the same city that the invisible man lives in and could easily save somebody falling off a bridge.

5) The fact that they let you actually download and save the comics is wicked progressive of them. I cant wait to get fired tomorrow for bringing them to work on a cd. [/spoiler]

[Uncle Yuan]

Late to the party -

I just started watching this on line, and I probably won't be in here very much until I'm caught up because of the spoilers, but so far I'm loving this show.

The last scene in episode three (Claire wakes up on an autopsy table wit her organs in a bowl next to her): hilarious!

[stumpy]

Welcome to the frenzy that is the Heroes thread!  :lol:

The last scene in episode three (Claire wakes up on an autopsy table wit her organs in a bowl next to her): hilarious!

:D  I think the bowls just had that some blood and that root that killed her, but it was pretty cool to see her wake up all flayed open. When I saw that, two thoughts flashed through my head: 1) This is Vesalius' wet dream and 2) Didn't this happen to Dr. Zoidberg in an episode of Futurama?  :P

[Uncle Yuan]

Oooo - bonus points to Stumpy for the Vesalius refence!!

[Revenant]

[spoiler]I wonder if Hiro's dad had anything to do with inhibiting his powers.  When he saved himself from Vegas lady, he seemed more powerful than ever... perhaps Dad gave him a power upgrade instead?  Weird concidence if not.[/spoiler]

[BentonGrey]

[spoiler]I think that's more of a case of 'necessity is the mother of invention,' as I don't think his father knows of his powers yet.[/spoiler]

[Revenant]

[spoiler]Yeah he might not know that Hiro is a... special.  (Is that the show's vernacular?)  But he seems like a powerful man... and if Ando is reporting to him (which somebody suggested as a possibility) he would know... I just wonder if the power inhibition, the injections, Hiro's father being big in the organization, and Hiro's temporary loss of power / sudden surge are related somehow.[/spoiler]

[Conduit]

[spoiler]

Yeah he might not know that Hiro is a... special.  (Is that the show's vernacular?)

The show has no vernacular.  You can call them whatever you want.
[/spoiler]

[Talavar]

Is reversing a couple of seconds of time really more powerful than going forward a month in time and travelling several thousand miles of space instantly?  And then reversing that?  I don't think so.

[stumpy]

I would agree with the "act of desperation" diagnosis of that scene.

[spoiler]It was an interesting trick to reverse time for only a single object, the bullet. The unescapable reality is that if Hiro ever gets consistent control over his power and assuming his enemies don't have some sort of immunity from it, he is nearly unbeatable. He has shown the power can be used nearly instantly and it doesn't seem to exhaust him to use it. Unless he is taken totally by surprise, he doesn't need any other power.

Regarding Sulu's knowledge of Hiro's powers: Though the show didn't show the whole conversation, it kinda seemed like Hiro explained to his dad why he was in the States. I suppose it's possible he never mentioned his powers, although it's hard to imagine he could justify his role in the "mission" without them. It really seems to me that Sulu should know that Hiro has powers, both because of that conversation and because we now know he is some sort of muckety muck in HRG's organization, which seems to have data on these things. IMO, if Hiro told him that he has a power and Sulu didn't believe him, it would be an odd thing for a father to leave his son to wander around in a foriegn country when he is insane and out to steal valuable museum artifacts.

BTW, does anyone think that Mongul (which is what I am calling HRG's boss until we get a name for him) actually believed HRG about the Haitian being the turncoat? It seems like HRG had outed the Haitian earlier in some unshown scene, which adds consistency to his story, but Mongul seemed to be dropping hints about "trust" and so on in the post-Ted scene back at Primatech.[/spoiler]

[thalaw2]

[spoiler]I guess one thing this show goes with is that thinking has everything to do with language....Have Jean Grey or Prof. X ever been unable to read someone's mind because of language barriers?  HRG thinking in Japanese to prevent his thoughts from being read and it working just struck me as odd.  Wasn't it Assimov who wrote that thought and language are different and therefore one has nothing to do with the other?  Maybe this guy is just a low level telepath in Heroes.[/spoiler]

[BentonGrey]

Actually......

[spoiler]In both modern literary and psychological fields, the theory that holds greatest sway is that language must exist for there to be thought, at least anything more advanced than emotion and desire, e.g: hungry, thirsty, tired.  The human quality of self-awareness seems to be inextricably connected to language, so I would say it is entirely probable that a telepath would be unable to read the mind of someone who is 'thinking in Japanese,' assuming that it was only 'surface telepathy,' only able to pick up on conscious thought.[/spoiler]

[Revenant]

Is reversing a couple of seconds of time really more powerful than going forward a month in time and travelling several thousand miles of space instantly?  And then reversing that?  I don't think so.

[spoiler]This was the first time Hiro used his power to reverse time on one specific object /area.  He would have normally stopped time or slowed it enough to escape being shot. 

Here, he must have warped time in a twofold manner, because the woman got tackled after the bullet went back into the gun.  Thus for her time was reversed, but for the game agent, time must have continued normally.  It was something new and IMO more potent than what he'd done before. 

I agree that time and space travel in tandem (like he did to arrive in NYC) would be no easy feat, but was akin to leaping blindly, like Nightcrawler teleporting to somewhere he hadn't previously been.  Here was a more precise, efficient use of the power.  And Hiro doesn't even know that he did it, since his eyes were closed.[/spoiler]

[stumpy]

[spoiler]

I guess one thing this show goes with is that thinking has everything to do with language....Have Jean Grey or Prof. X ever been unable to read someone's mind because of language barriers?  HRG thinking in Japanese to prevent his thoughts from being read and it working just struck me as odd.  Wasn't it Assimov who wrote that thought and language are different and therefore one has nothing to do with the other?  Maybe this guy is just a low level telepath in Heroes.

Good point.

While some relationship between thought and language is supported, I don't buy into the stricter thought-is-language idea either. It still holds some cache in literary fields, but there isn't really agreement about it in the cognitive sciences. (I am not claiming to be a Pinkerist, but theories like SWH aren't very compelling.) Either way, it is a departure from most comic book or sci-fi depictions of telepathy, where one of it's most common uses is for translation among people who don't speak the same language.

It may be possible, though, that the show is thinking about Matt's power in a particular way. E.g., it supposes that there is a part of the brain that does language (gets thoughts ready for communication) and that's the part that Matt latches on to. Maybe at some point he will get better at it and be able to grab thoughts earlier in the process.

It will be interesting to see if this comes into play when he meets Hiro. Hiro is certainly learning a lot of English, but it isn't his natural language yet. It seems like he would have to deliberately think in it to communicate with Matt if the show sticks to this view.[/spoiler]

[Bujin]

[spoiler]Actually, I buy the "thinking in Japanese" completely.  Current learning theory includes the idea that silent reading, for example, is a type of auditory learning.... when you read silently, you are reading it "aloud" in your head.  It's really common sense - that's why reading something aloud or moving your lips when you read actually helps you read.  It stands to reason that you are thinking in your target language. 

The fact that Heroes contradicts Professor X hardly makes it scientifically valid.   ;)

[spoiler]

I guess one thing this show goes with is that thinking has everything to do with language....Have Jean Grey or Prof. X ever been unable to read someone's mind because of language barriers?  HRG thinking in Japanese to prevent his thoughts from being read and it working just struck me as odd.  Wasn't it Assimov who wrote that thought and language are different and therefore one has nothing to do with the other?  Maybe this guy is just a low level telepath in Heroes.

Good point.

While some relationship between thought and language is supported, I don't buy into the stricter thought-is-language idea either. It still holds some cache in literary fields, but there isn't really agreement about it in the cognitive sciences. (I am not claiming to be a Pinkerist, but theories like SWH aren't very compelling.) Either way, it is a departure from most comic book or sci-fi depictions of telepathy, where one of it's most common uses is for translation among people who don't speak the same language.

It may be possible, though, that the show is thinking about Matt's power in a particular way. E.g., it supposes that there is a part of the brain that does language (gets thoughts ready for communication) and that's the part that Matt latches on to. Maybe at some point he will get better at it and be able to grab thoughts earlier in the process.

It will be interesting to see if this comes into play when he meets Hiro. Hiro is certainly learning a lot of English, but it isn't his natural language yet. It seems like he would have to deliberately think in it to communicate with Matt if the show sticks to this view.[/spoiler]

[stumpy]

Actually, I buy the "thinking in Japanese" completely.  Current learning theory includes the idea that silent reading, for example, is a type of auditory learning.... when you read silently, you are reading it "aloud" in your head.  It's really common sense - that's why reading something aloud or moving your lips when you read actually helps you read.  It stands to reason that you are thinking in your target language. 

The last sentence doesn't follow from the ones that precede it. Of course it's common sense that communication (oral or written) uses language, no one is arguing against that. That idea words written in a given language "sound" like that language in your head is hardly surprising. But, that doesn't support the notion that all thinking takes place as internal spoken language.

[thalaw2]

I wish I had my theories together so I could do this right, but I have to go to work soon..so here goes.  It was once thought that people speaking different languages also thought differently...I think it was something about proving that Native Americans couldn't have the same dreams because they speak different languages.  It was found that language had nothing to do with what people were capable of thinking.

Modern language theory teaches that all grammar really is is a way for people to understand each other..other than that it doesn't exist despite having so man annoying rules.  Telepathy should be able to take advantage of this and work as a universal translator or maybe thats where we cross into empathy, but yes it would be good to see what happens when Matt meets Hiro.

Also,
[spoiler]  It seemed that Claire and HRG were able to throw their thoughts at Matt when they wanted to communicate with him.  If Matt was picking up thoughts then why wasn't getting them from the mother and son? [/spoiler]

Anyway, I'm so happy that they haven't started dubbing this show in China, only subtitles...which makes it hard to read the Japanese translations.

[Sevenforce]

My opinions on Matt -

[spoiler]1) He's not a true telepath as such, as he explained to his wife. He can't pick up pictures and emotions and stuff, but he picks up word-thoughts. Basically, the words people don't say, but think. It's like the thoughts hes picking up are conversations...I'm not sure I'm explaining myself well here :huh:

2) As such, if HRG thought in Japanese...well, it would be like a Japanese person thinking, or Indian, or whatever. He'd be unable to understand it, because he can't speak Indian or Japanese etc. HRG would know this from studying Matt and how his ability works. Why he chose Japanese over any other number of languages confuses me.

3) How did Matt know it was Japanese anyway?! O_o[/spoiler]

Opinions on language thoughts (best title I could think of) -

[spoiler]Well, think about it. You can read someones mind. Not only do you receive their word-thoughts and picture-thoughts, you receive the means to understand that, since you're receiving everything that person knows. Think of it like an encyclopedia in a different language with a translation in the back. Of course, that would take some looking, and maybe some time, depending on the level of telepathy. Depending on what you choose to store (this is a high level telepath I'm talking about here. Heck, anything beyond picking up emotions and words is high level telepath to me...the mind is a very very complicated thing, just see how much information you can store in a picture in your mind and compare that to a picture on a computer), you could learn the language for just the time you're meeting them or indefinitely. This goes for all sorts of skills, such as mechanics, etc. The telepath doesn't need to understand it - the mechanic they're leeching it off does, as he has the instruction manual in his head :)[/spoiler]

General stuffage on the show -

[spoiler]How obvious was the advert at the end of the shootout scene..."Look Ando! Car not even scratched!" Uh...huh :huh:

Does anyone else not find it odd that the big boss of an organization formed to find and eliminate dangerous and uncontrollable 'enhanced' people decides to shoot anyone with a gun while in the same room as not just one, but four? When they're all obviously distressed, nervous and on edge? I mean, does he not remember what happened with Claires mum? In any case, since it was an accident as such, he should have shot Ted in the head to disable him, he wasn't so 'nuclear' at that point, and was clearly showing signs of being the most dangerous at that point.

The whole organization seems a bit whacked, they recruit some heroes but not others? And examine all the heroes whether they're recruited or not, and then puts them back into societal circulation?! Did no-one at this place see the problem with putting someone who can wipe minds, can read minds, radiates something (I don't buy its radiation with the whole house scene, they should all have no teeth by next episode -_-) and the rest back onto the streets with the rest of the population? I mean, isn't the organization meant to be keeping the public safe yet unaware? And if so...what happened to the FBI lady who worked with Matt? Mindwipe?

Speaking of working with the 'enhanced'...What sort of protection do they have against them? I mean, seriously...The Haitian could have been wiping minds right left and centre and noone would have been the wiser. For all we know, he did. Claude got away with it, right?

Speaking of Mr Newclear...The whole grave scene where all the grass died? Nuh uh. Not in a month of sundays, I don't care HOW much radiation hes pouring out, the grass wouldn't die that fast. It mustn't be just radiation, it must be some sort of energy transferrance...I don't know  :banghead:

There seems to be a bit of a...discrepency between the comics and the show. In the comic, it shows HRG as immediately developing protective instincts to Claire, whereas in the show its quite plain he does not want a child until its forced upon him

And finally Mr HRG himself...dammit, he had to go and redeem himself. Now there's only a few guys left I can seriously dislike for their personalities ;) I'm also in the camp that he has a power, which is what we thought was the Haitians power - power dampening. However, I believe its just getting started and he doesn't know he has it, and neither does anyone else. Then again, the whole power dampening thing only seemed to work with mental powers, and he put Sylar to sleep, not dampened his powers[/spoiler]

[Conduit]

[spoiler]

I'm also in the camp that he has a power, which is what we thought was the Haitians power - power dampening. However, I believe its just getting started and he doesn't know he has it, and neither does anyone else. Then again, the whole power dampening thing only seemed to work with mental powers, and he put Sylar to sleep, not dampened his powers.

If he could dampen powers, why didn't he prevent Matt from reading his mind in this episode?  You can't argue that he didn't have that much control at that point because someone dampened Matt's powers on many previous occasions.  Not to mention the way the show basically made it obvious that it was the Haitian who was doing it.  HRG said in his kidnapping scene with Matt that he couldn't read his mind while his 'friend' was there (the Haitian was the only other person in the room).  In every scene where Matt's powers have been blocked, there's been a cut away to the Haitian.
[/spoiler]

[Talavar]

I'll just say again - there is more than one type of radiation.  Hell, light is a form of radiation.  Who says everything Ted puts out is at the wavelengths that cause long-term radiation poisoning, and not faster responses like burns?

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

[spoiler]

he should have shot Ted in the head to disable him, he wasn't so 'nuclear' at that point, and was clearly showing signs of being the most dangerous at that point.

Umm. . . they clearly indicate that shooting him is what triggers him to go nuclear.  Shooting him in the head would likely cause an immediate nuclear explosion.  Bad idea.
[/spoiler]

[Talavar]

Friends, I come from the future, or at least Canada, bearing news of tonight's Heroes!  Do you dare look?

[spoiler]
We have Ando's heroic re-appearance, to help Hiro achieve his magic-feather sword.  I dont' know about the rest of you, but this seemed a bit suspicious of Ando on his own.  Perhaps he's actually working for Hiro's father, as some have theorized?  Hiro also takes Ando with him in a time/space jump, from present day Las Vegas to post-apocalyptic New York!  Coolio, though it's a bit of a downer, since Hiro gets disheartened again.

Claire tries to ditch the Haitian and go see Peter Petrelli, only to run into Peter's mother who knows about Claire already, and the Haitian!  The plot thickens....

Matt does some minor work for Eric Roberts, and is seen only briefly!

New Special woman appears with illusion powers (at least I think they were illusion, rather than shape-shifting), and uses them to get Isaac off the hook for Simone's murder (who is indeed dead, by the way).  Of Isaac/Peter, it's Isaac who's the big baby, and blames Peter for Simone's death.  Way to take responsibility Isaac!

The New Special woman also uses her illusion powers to get HRG into hot water with Eric Roberts!  She's a jerk!

Mohinder pulls a fast one on Sylar!  Finally, he can lose the title of dumbest-smart person.  Sylar unfortunately pulls a reverse fast one, and Mohinder's life hangs, quite literally, in the balance of...

A Peter/Sylar showdown!  Bum bum bum

[/spoiler]

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Sounds like this episode will be everything I was hoping for.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Some quick thoughts:

[spoiler]
So Nathan's really been on the good side secretly all along.

How much does his mother really know?  More than she's pretending, that's for sure.  And how does she know the Hatian?

I hope HRG gets out of this somehow.  He's now turned fully against the Company.

Mr. Linderman's scene seems to enforce the theory that he's behind the Company.  I am definitely thinking that this is the case.

Niki's learning to snatch control from Jessica, like Jessica used to do to her.  Good.

Peter vs. Sylar round one.  Did they have to end it there?  Now I have to wait another 2 months!

I'm definitely interesting in Hiro's future storyline.  I also happen to know that a future Matt will be one of the main villains in this timeline.
[/spoiler]

[Conduit]

I'm not sure how I feel about this episode.  It mainly set up cliff hangers for the last act of the season.  At the same time, it had some really cool, enjoyable moments and some huge revelations.

[spoiler]
Glad to see Mohinder finally catch on.  That whole torture sequence was great.  And it was so creepy when Sylar escaped.

It's great to see Ando back.  Although as great as it was to see Hiro finally get the sword, was anyone else screaming at Hiro to just grab the sword and stop time?  The security guys probably wouldn't have found it threatening enough to shoot at Hiro if he simply put his hands on the sword.  But the ending completely made up for all of that.  Even though I kind of knew it was coming (if not this episode, then the one after), it's still too awesome for words.

Linderman completely exceeded my expectations.  And my expectations were pretty darn high.  I love when Nathan pulled the gun on him and he said, "Now you can't have any chicken pot pie."  I love the whole powerful villain pretending to be a nice old guy thing.

Peter: guess we now know how Peter gets his scar.  He's going to look wierd without his bangs, though.  I can't wait for the Peter/Sylar smackdown in a few weeks.
[/spoiler]

[BentonGrey]

How do you figure that last part Cat?