i still need to find a nice jetpack... any of you guys got a copy of that Nick_Fury_Gren mesh? or do you guys have any other better suggestions for the jetpack? coz i would really like to see duke on a jetpack... if you guys have a copy, please send them to newradmercz@gmail.com  ... thanks...  :thumbup:

Sending it now. :D

ok, then i'll just have to wait till you send the mesh...  :thumbup:

I'm having problems.

Since GGiant is having some problems, May i lend a hand? Don't know much about hexxing and stuff Kaede, but I believe i have the nick_fury_gren. Just sent it to your email address. Hope it's the right one. :D

Good luck with the Mesh! :cool:

Sent it already outcast. ;)

did u put a pistol/desert eagle on duke mesh?

Kaede, Please I really want to play with that duke.
Can you inish it and send a copy to:
davythextreme@gmail.com
PLEEAAASSEEE!
:paplease

Quote from: Raijin on August 12, 2007, 10:01:46 PM
did u put a pistol/desert eagle on duke mesh?

well the mesh i skoped with also has a pistol with a scope... but if you guys want a desert eagle, that's doable also...  :thumbup:

I just have 1 question.
After you finish this, will you want to share it with other FR members.
Or will you be selfish about it?

Sorry, Just curious because I really want that mesh so bad!
I'm getting crazy about it.:direcub

Does the duke mesh have any parts from meshes created by Texas Jack? (some of the weapons etc. look like they are from his punisher_tj mesh). If they are, and you have used Nifskope to alter or swap pieces of the mesh you probably wont be able to release or distribute it because TJ isn't able to be contacted to give permission for his meshes to be altered in such a way.

Are you sure about this Carravaggio?
I saw TJ's txt file in every mesh and it did not state that you can't hex the mesh. ;)

Speaking of TJ still haven't seen him a while.

Quote from: GGiant on August 13, 2007, 03:23:50 AM
Are you sure about this Carravaggio?
I saw TJ's txt file in every mesh and it did not state that you can't hex the mesh. ;)

Quote from: Carravaggio on August 13, 2007, 02:32:31 AM
If...you have used Nifskope to alter or swap pieces of the mesh you probably wont be able to release or distribute it because TJ isn't able to be contacted to give permission for his meshes to be altered in such a way.

Well, TJ did not put in his txt files that you could not hex the mesh.
And he also did not put in his txt files that you could hex the mesh.

Quote from: GGiant on August 13, 2007, 04:01:44 AM
Well, TJ did not put in his txt files that you could not hex the mesh.
And he also did not put in his txt files that you could hex the mesh.

It has been established that hexing TJ meshes is acceptable. I never said it wasn't.
If you will observe my last post:

Quote from: Carravaggio on August 13, 2007, 03:44:04 AM

Quote from: Carravaggio on August 13, 2007, 02:32:31 AM
If...you have used Nifskope to alter or swap pieces of the mesh you probably wont be able to release or distribute it because TJ isn't able to be contacted to give permission for his meshes to be altered in such a way.

I was saying that you can't release the mesh IF you skoped it. I didn't know if it were skoped or not, I was pointing out IF it were, releasing it is a big no-no.
So, lets have a look at the mesh, shall we?



Wow thats some cool cartridges on his harness. i wonder where they came from?

Quote from: Kaede on August 11, 2007, 06:07:58 AM

Quote from: GGiant on August 11, 2007, 06:02:47 AM
Is this a solid snake mesh?

nope it's not a solid snake mesh... but i did get the catridges of his harness from solid snake mesh though... but that's about it...

Huh, so someone has taken parts from a TJ mesh and put it on another mesh.
Wow. that requires nifskope, which means the mesh has been skoped. Now who made the solid snake mesh?
let me check the README file form the solid snake mesh...

Solid_Snake

By: Texas Jack
standard skin by: Zuludelta

************************
So parts have been skoped off of a TJ mesh onto another? then the mesh should not be released.
By the way what mesh is it skoped onto?
that bazooka/grenade launcher looks familiar...

oh wow, it is from TJ's punisher mesh! so thats two TJ parts. In fact if we look at the belt and other weapons we see on duke with we can assume that the base mesh is in fact TJ's punisher mesh. So we have parts from a TJ mesh skoped onto another TJ mesh.
Also punisher_TJ doesn't have that hair (so far as i know it might be hidden and shown via hexing) but if the hair has bee taken from another mesh and placed on a TJ mesh...yep, skoping again. And where did the sunglasses come from? I don't think they are native to the punisher mesh.

If that duke mesh has any single part skoped onto it from another mesh, even another TJ mesh, the skoper shouldn't release it.
There has been big arguments and lots of conversation to decide that hexing does not = skoping. It's possible that newer members might not be familiar with the difference.
Its possible that somehow they missed all the discussion about this very topic.
Now you know.
Hexing is hiding or revealing parts that already exist on the mesh as the mesher created it. Skoping is taking parts from other meshes and slapping them on someone else's mesh with no regard to what they think about it. Lots of very generous and talented meshers have given us permission to skope their meshes so long as they are given credit, and we are grateful. Some have not, and we respect that. I'm sure all you newer members will respect that too.

Hi everyone,

I don't have time now to read all the messages since my last one, but I'm very glad and quite surprised of all of your work. I'm working now in the DN mod, I've done 4 maps and coded 3 out of 4 missions. I'll give you more info ASAP, but I'll wait for any meshes / skins you may want to add on it.

Thanks to everyone!

yep this was the problem why i still can't release the mesh/skin... but don't worry once TJ is contacted, then i'll distribute it to you all if you want it...

How will you contact him?

Quote from: Carravaggio on August 13, 2007, 05:02:39 AM

thats a pretty cool punisher whered u get it carravagio?

Yeah can you send it to me:
davythextreme@yahoo.com.ph
I'm stuck with other punishers.

Carravaggio, Can I ask you a couple of questions?
First of all, Did TJ let his meshes be skoped?
Second question, If he did then why can't Kaede release it?
Third one, Did TJ ever let his meshes be redistributed?
Fourth, If he did not then why is it here?
Fifth, Is there anyway to contact Texas Jack?
Please use quotes to answer each question.

I hate to break this to you, but that skin is also a kitbash (jeans are from UE's wolverine skin). So even if there wasn't the mesh issue there's the major issue of the skin being a kitbash.

How do you know this? :huh:

It's fairly obvious just by comparing the two skins.

Where is this skin?

So your telling me that Kaede is kitbashing TJ meshes and a wolverine skin? :blink:
P.S I don't get it. :wacko:

Quote from: GGiant on August 13, 2007, 08:25:06 PM
Carravaggio, Can I ask you a couple of questions?
First of all, Did TJ let his meshes be skoped?

You are asking questions that i have already answered. Did you actually read my post?
TJ has not given permission for any of his meshes to be skoped. As i stated above, skoping is not the same thing as hexing. again i explained the different processes above.

We can hex TJ meshes, with the intent or redistributing it as a 'new' character with a skin, but you have to give him credit for the original mesh and essentially separate yourself from any intent of 'ownership' or authority of the work (in this case, the mesh). hexing is dead easy and require only two or three clicks of the mouse, that is not enough work to make any sort of claim of credit. For example, some of the characters i have cvreated and released use meshes from such greats as Renegade and Grenadier (among others). i clearly state in the README file that I make no claim of authorship or effort in relation to the mesh, all i do is hide or unhide the work of other artists.
We CANNOT skope TJ meshes. This has been established MANY times as a general rule respected by all the community. As permission was not explicitly given by TJ, we cannot, under any circumstances ASSUME that we have any right to mesh with his work in this way.
In summation:
Hexing at TJ mesh? Yes, it can be done and released provided you give all due credit and respect the standard protocol for that sort of thing.
Skoping a TJ mesh?: No never, not unti the man himself comes back online to this community and EXPLICITLY states he is ok with it. until that day comes (which may never happen because he is unable to be contacted thus far by anyone from the community) all his meshes and creations are off limits to any sort of skoping or similar manipulation.

Quote from: GGiant on August 13, 2007, 08:25:06 PM
Second question, If he did then why can't Kaede release it?

See above. Meshes made by TJ that have been skoped are not allowed to be distributed

Quote from: GGiant on August 13, 2007, 08:25:06 PM
Third one, Did TJ ever let his meshes be redistributed?
Fourth, If he did not then why is it here?

See above. The meshes ZD distributes are hexed only, not niskoped, and you better believe ZD is the kinda guy that gives due credit. you give credit and you ask permission (and reciecve it) distribution is usually allowed. Kaede has done niether so distribution is not allowed

Quote from: GGiant on August 13, 2007, 08:25:06 PM
Fifth, Is there anyway to contact Texas Jack?
Please use quotes to answer each question.

if there was he would have been able to answer the skoping question. No one has thus far been able to contact him.



I proved multiple times in my last post that the Duke mesh is composed of PARTS of different meshes, which is done via SKOPING. As many of those parts and meshes are those greated by TJ, and skoping TJ stuff is off limits, Kaede CANNOT release, distribute or hand out that mesh he has skoped together, no matter how much work he might have put into the skoping, all he (and i and other skopers ) have done is move around the building blocks that make up the meshes created by talented artists.

Quote from: GGiant on August 13, 2007, 10:11:47 PM
So your telling me that Kaede is kitbashing TJ meshes and a wolverine skin? :blink:
P.S I don't get it. :wacko:

There is a definition of kittbashing elsewhere on this forum and its about the worst thing you can do in this community. Again as above newer members often dont realise they are doing it, adbn they usually get cut a little slack. However i dont buy that defence. How can anyone, even a newb, believe its ok to steal, change and rearrange the work of another artist, then display it under the pretence that it is theirs with no attempt to give credit or recognition to the real artist? Thats not a mistake, thats not ignorance, thats wanton theft.
I dont have UE's skin of wolverine on hand at the moment, but i'm sure he could tell you if its his or not. I'll say i believe NomadX's judgement, he has been here long enough to know.
IF, Kaede, you have used the work of another artist, especially one form this community, you have a few options: You can apologise, not do it again and skin your own stuff in the future, you can contact the artist who it belongs to and ask if its ok for you to use it (most will say no, and for good reason. Its not fair for someone to spend hours on a pair of jeans, admittedly a hard material and subject to render, then you STEAL it, slap it on your own frankenstien of a skin and say its yours. thats not fair and thats not how this community works.)
Again, this is IF you have used the work of other people. I cant tell from here, but it seems very possible (this goes for all skinned parts weapons, belts, extras etc. The duke skope mesh has a grenade launcher on it. the skin for that weapon was done by C6. If you didn't ask him to use it, if he didn't give you the go ahead, then you have committed theft).
None of the skinners or meshers in this community HAVE to release anything they do. They don't have to let us hex and butcher and skope their meshes, but MANY of them do (thanks guys!). Some don't allow us and we respect that.
IF Kaede has used the skins of other people, even parts of them he cant release the mesh cos its not his work. The parts clearly come from a TJ meshes adn other meshes, combining meshes requires nifskope, and skoping TJ meshes is not allowed.
i dont see how Kaede can release this mesh and skin in any form to the community as it is right now.
He will have to find a new, non TJ base mesh, find non TJ mesh parts for weapons etc. and skin his own work.
Style, a mad skoper, has created a range of great skoped meshes. You better believe he is only releasing those whose original meshers gave permission to skope, and he will get permission to use other peoples skins or have new original ones made.
We don't steal at FR.
New members, my advice is this. Don't ASSUME anything. You and we, have no right to do anything with these works, skins or meshes. they are a gift bestowed by generous artists. don't spit in their faces by stealing and butchering what they have done. Ask permission for everything, ask questions of the general community about whats allowed (most are nicer than me and are glad to help). Email the creators, check old threads for examples of what you want to do and see how this is handled. Check the stickied topics, especially those labelled NIFSKOPE PERMISSION THREAD. By checking that one thread you could have avoided this whole lecture.

Well put Carravaggio.
Kaede,  i hope you're ok, but think about this,   you've already got a good foothold into creating a releasable version.
I asume you're using Renegade's Major Force as the body?
what if you placed him into maybe one of Tommyboy's or Grenadier's meshes (like why not directly into Nick Fury,  that way your keyframe problem is solved for the jetpack.  Or another option would be to use Gren's Punisher mesh.   while it doesn't have as many gun options,  it does have many different ranged keyframes.   and since it's alsa a Gren mesh,  made around the same time as the Nick Fury mesh,  it might even be easier to skope together - and use both setsa of keyframes..