Quote from: Mowgli on May 23, 2007, 01:26:00 PM
SouperIan: Hiro never controlled time for specific items (clock, sunway,etc.) He stopped or reversed time for everyone and everything each time. No one else notices, because time continues normally for them. They, and the objects are stopped until everything restarts, so they don't even notice.

Yes, he did. He reversed time for Hope's gun without affecting anything else - Ando notices this, and, if I'm remembering correctly, Hope looked pretty surprised as well.

Inconsistencies are what ruin this show for me. Don't get me wrong, still awesome...but characters doing things out of character and powers doing wonky things they shouldn't do just pulls too far from the enjoyment (reference Hiro - and also, cool fade effect, but hes stopping time, not slowing it down, so shouldn't be a fade, but more a 'there and gone' thing, as was depicted earlier. But then, if he WAS stopping time he'd have to beat the whole absolute zero thing. Hmmmm... *bashes self on head for thinking too much. Thinky things bad. Bad thinky seven)

But, as I've mentioned, I'm a nitpicker :lol:

Sylar being stabbed via heart - I don't think so, but then again I'm no doctor/assassin. I checked, its most likely that hes been stabbed in a lung, having gone through the gladiolus or manubrium. Still deadly, but less so. As the few biology books I have mentioned, the hearts usually 'a little up and to the left' of the hemithorax, whereas Hiro stabbed him straight through the middle.

I noticed the night time thing too, Mowgli, and just figured it being that the timeline had been changed.

I have a question...would Peter have ever met Ted if Hiro didn't exist? I mean, Future Hiro kinda set everything in motion for this bomb (and is probably wiped out of existence now, which now means this reality should be wiped, etc etc reference grandfather paradox). And then, therefore, would the bomb have gone off? I know they started showing abilities before Peter met Future Hiro, but Future Hiro majorly directed everything for them to meet. Hmm.

Future Hiro said that in the timeline he remembers, Sylar was the bomb.  Or at least, he thinks Sylar was.

Turned out Nathan had covered up for Peter, though, didn't it? Or is that because the timelines been...ok, timeline discussion over. Why do I keep doing this? I ain't going there - again <_<

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on May 23, 2007, 09:02:16 AM
I already answered that question, rev, but here it goes again:

[spoiler]It's already been demonstrated that when Peter's power go berserk due to absorbing too many powers, they begin going off uncontrollably.  During such an episode, he seems unable to control his powers at all, so he can't do any of the above.[/spoiler]

Not to mention that

[spoiler]
Peter has NO idea that Sylar has any power other than TK. (Which I still maintain Peter should not have been able to absorb, but thats another thread).  He can't access powers he doesn't know about or he'd have used superhaering or melty boy's power.  So even if he could use two powers at a time, one of them wouldnt be Sylar's original power. [/spoiler]

Quote from: Mowgli on May 23, 2007, 01:26:00 PM
(For the record, I still haven't heard a plausible explanation for why Sylat could stop bullets, but not a sword... afraid? Erm, I don't know about that.)

I think saying "Sylar was afraid" would be quite an oversimplification.  From all evidence shown on the show, Sylar pretty much embraced the notion that predictions of the future would happen.  His being dismissive of the sword impaling in the comic book was the one anomaly.

When Sylar visited his mother, he was (initially) desperate to find something to refute what he thought the future predicted.  After that didn't go so well, however, he plunged off the deep end and viewed it as destiny.

Add to this, Sylar's previous encounters with Hiro have shown Hiro to be nervous, weak-willed, and only quick enough to save his own skin.  I find it reasonable to believe that having Hiro suddenly teleport in, completely confident, and charging with his sword, would be enough to give Hiro the necessary advantage.  Sylar was suddenly facing a different Hiro than he had expected, and that could have been enough to make him hesitate.

Or, maybe he just... y'know, realized that his bladder was full and didn't expect Hiro to show up until after the commercial break.

Quote from: bredon7777 on May 24, 2007, 07:08:02 AM

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on May 23, 2007, 09:02:16 AM
I already answered that question, rev, but here it goes again:

[spoiler]It's already been demonstrated that when Peter's power go berserk due to absorbing too many powers, they begin going off uncontrollably.  During such an episode, he seems unable to control his powers at all, so he can't do any of the above.[/spoiler]

Not to mention that

[spoiler]
Peter has NO idea that Sylar has any power other than TK. (Which I still maintain Peter should not have been able to absorb, but thats another thread).  He can't access powers he doesn't know about or he'd have used superhaering or melty boy's power.  So even if he could use two powers at a time, one of them wouldnt be Sylar's original power. [/spoiler]

Bredon, that's not true at all, as when he met Claude, he absorbed his ability without even knowing he was there, just like he absorbed Nathan's ability to fly without knowing he could do it.

I tend to think Peter should absorb all the powers of other specials he gets near, but he can only use the ones he knows exist or that are passive in nature or instinctive to use. I guess that leaves a lot of leeway, but it would make sense in explaining why, living in New York City and being near such a crush of humanity for all those years, he hasn't picked up more powers. Of course, it could also be that his own power only
turned on" recently...

Also, that theory, as much as I like it, doesn't explain how Peter didn't pick up the super hearing from Sylar, which definitely has a passive component to it (both its possessors have had to learn to turn it off).

The writers states that with Sylar's powers, for some reason, Peter can only absorb them if they are actively used.  This is different than with everyone else.

Yeah, doesn't make much sense to me either.

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on May 24, 2007, 04:55:30 PM
The writers states that with Sylar's powers, for some reason, Peter can only absorb them if they are actively used.  This is different than with everyone else.

Yeah, doesn't make much sense to me either.

There could be a kind of sense there if you assume that Sylar keeps his inactive powers in some sort of deep storage until he uses them.  Or if on a mechanical level he somehow does not posses the power, but just manifests it somehow.  Like you can't hear a radio station until you tune the radio to that station.  Once Sylar does that, Peter can also "learn" how to access a power.

Quote from: BentonGrey on May 24, 2007, 04:00:48 PM

Quote from: bredon7777 on May 24, 2007, 07:08:02 AM

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on May 23, 2007, 09:02:16 AM
I already answered that question, rev, but here it goes again:

[spoiler]It's already been demonstrated that when Peter's power go berserk due to absorbing too many powers, they begin going off uncontrollably.  During such an episode, he seems unable to control his powers at all, so he can't do any of the above.[/spoiler]

Not to mention that

[spoiler]
Peter has NO idea that Sylar has any power other than TK. (Which I still maintain Peter should not have been able to absorb, but thats another thread).  He can't access powers he doesn't know about or he'd have used superhaering or melty boy's power.  So even if he could use two powers at a time, one of them wouldnt be Sylar's original power. [/spoiler]

Bredon, that's not true at all, as when he met Claude, he absorbed his ability without even knowing he was there, just like he absorbed Nathan's ability to fly without knowing he could do it.

But he didn't actually conciously USE either ability until he knew what they were, which is what I was actually arguing. Sure, he can absorb them- but he has no idea what Sylar's main power is, and therefore no way to conciously choose to access it.

True, but he often finds these things triggering randomly (TK or invisibility for instance, both with Claude).

Peter should have Sylar's innate ability of Clockwork vision.. has it manifested itself that we're aware of?  Even if it has, after thinking about it, I realized that if he does know how Ted's power works, then he knows for sure that he can't fly himself away or stop the explosion.  The clockwork vision would tell him that.

We really need a comprehensive list of Sylar's powers that he has absorbed.  Telekinesis, cyrokinesis, molecular manipulation (Zane's ability), enhanced hearing, precognition, and radiation manipulation are all known.  Agent Hanson mentioned at the time of the Walker murders (beginning of the season) that eight victims were confirmed to have been killed by Sylar.  But she said that she got his name from one of the victims, so of those eight (excluding Molly's parents and assuming that elder Suresh wasn't counted as one of Sylar's victims), only 7 of them likely had powers.  We know that telekinesis and cyrokinesis were one of those seven, so that leaves six additional powers (including Molly's dad) that Sylar has and has yet to either demonstrate or discuss.

Given the relatively narrow focus of powers on this show, I highly doubt that cryokinesis and telekinesis are the same power.  I also get the feeling that the cutting power is also unique and not an outgrowth of the TK (especially given the ease with with he cut that painting).

In the show we see how he gets TK, the liquification power, the super hearing, Ted's radiation and Charlie's eidetic memory.  Of these, only the TK happened before we learn about Sylar, meaning he has a total of at least 12 powers now.

We've seen him fall off a tall building and walk away, and possibly take a bullet and walk away, so some kind of physical resistance or minor invulnerability is possible, unless you want to explain both by TK.

His super leaping that he uses in one appearance is likely a separate power as well.

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on May 25, 2007, 11:20:26 AM
We've seen him fall off a tall building and walk away, and possibly take a bullet and walk away, so some kind of physical resistance or minor invulnerability is possible, unless you want to explain both by TK.

I don't - he also seems to be able to shrug off or adapt to sedation on two different occasions making some sort of super-resistance likely.

I like the idea of a list of Sylar's powers, [spoiler]especially since he will be back next season[/spoiler]. But I don't think we can be sure that he should have the exact number of powers of people he's killed or decapitated. He isn't infallible in detecting specials, as when he was mislead into killing Claire's cheerleader nemesis. He might have followed other false leads or made other mistakes, especially early on.

Did they ever show why she sometimes seemed to have the tattoo or sometimes not?

Speaking of that symbol, do we have any idea what the connection is there (with disparate characters having it, etc.)?

We do know it's a mixture of Japanese symbols meaning "God sending great ability."  Beyond that, nothing more has been said.

Quote from: ips on May 25, 2007, 12:21:54 PM
i'm just glad that they finally put the debate on niki's powers to rest by showing that her split personality is not a power. sigh. watching that debate endlessly was really tiring.  :P

No, but having your dead sister manifest a distinct body in your place might be considered a power.  ;)

Finally got around to seeing it. I liked it.

For those who were let down by the lack of a big fight, I'll echo that it's probably a budget thing. Almost all of the effects demonstrated in the show were 2D effects, basically applying filters and such to the shot film. To do a proper superhero fight, you need 3D effects. It's fairly clear from the few 3D effects they did use (melting objects, flying Nate) that they didn't have the cash to hire a competent 3D crew.

I'd imagine that we'll see bigger fights next season, as I'm assuming they'll have a larger budget then. In fact, we'll know by the first episode what the scale of the fights will be-- just check the credits and see if they've added another effects studio to the crew. If they have, I'd wager it's a 3D team, and there's no reason to hire them unless we're getting bigger fights.

</graphics nerd>

I think I might be the only one who didn't care when this show started, caught up on the missed episodes, watched the season finale, and ended up not liking the show very much at all.

Meh'  &lt;_&lt;

Quote from: Figure Fan on May 26, 2007, 08:23:46 AM
I think I might be the only one who didn't care when this show started, caught up on the missed episodes, watched the season finale, and ended up not liking the show very much at all.

Meh'  &lt;_&lt;

What's not to like?  Personally, I think it's a great show, and I'm waiting for season 2 to come out in the fall.

Quote from: captainspud on May 25, 2007, 03:44:52 PM
Finally got around to seeing it. I liked it.

For those who were let down by the lack of a big fight, I'll echo that it's probably a budget thing.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I do not accept that. Give me a week, 500 dollars, and more caffine then should be injested and I could come up with a good fight scene, one that wouldn't require any special effects besides wires to yank people around and Peter's glowey hands. Maybe some cracked ground in a few places or something.

You can write around special effects if you can't afford them.

Exactly Tomato, I gotta' say that they should have done more.

1) A wire rig, wire crew, and choreographer are expensive. Not to mention the fact that the show's insurance skyrockets if they're using wires. PLUS all involved would need weeks of training.

2) The specific complaint everybody's making is the lack of superpowers in the last fight. So no, you CAN'T work around a lack of special effects.

In my experience, "It can't be that tough" is the single most arrogant, ignorant thing you can say about film production. EVERYTHING is "that tough". Even the easy stuff.

But never mind. Of course you're right. This is the Internet, we don't need silly things like "facts" here. Obviously everything we want is easy and the only reason we don't get it is people are mean and/or lazy.

Obviously.

No matter what they would have done (within a reasonable budget) it still would not have been "enough" for some people.  In the Heroes world the two characters are titans.  Any real battle between them would have taken up even more money to do.  Just adding in one more 2D effect would cost more.  So adding in wirework, extending the scene or having the other heroes join in would increase cost.  If they really went all out with the characters, then that would automatically raise the bar for the following season.  Each battle after this one would have to be just as exciting or it would be ho-hum.  Then you would end up with the same boring tedium as a Dragonball Z episode.  It's like each successive season of Buffy.  In the first season, Vampires meant something.  Then she kills the "Big Bad" vampire at the end of the season.  The next season needs to top the first, so vampires take a back seat.  Each "Big Bad" has to be tougher than the last.  Eventually fighting demigods and in the final season an army of uber vamps and a primordial source of evil so powerful it's not even considered something so lowly as a "god".  I'd rather they keep Heroes toned down and grounded so we don't end up with "City of Heroes", where the fantastic is so commonplace as to be boring.

Spud, don't be so abrasive, people are entitled to their opinions, you've certainly got enough of your own.  I still say the budget thing is a cop out, and not because I want wires and physically intense stunts, just a little more creative writing and some half-way competent pretending on the behalf of the cast.  People have already made comments about some of the smaller plot holes, so it does seem like the writers are still trying to find their feet.  Yeah, they could have worked around it to my satisfaction.  I would have been happy just to see Peter use some darn TK, for which all they need is a little acting.  "Oh, he hit me with his mind," or "he's holding me with his mind."  I'm not asking for Flying Tiger Hidden Dragon here, just a little more effort and thought in that final fight.  Even him turning invisible, which would have basically been the same as the TK, with Sylar battling something that WE can't see and THEY don't have to animate.  I don't believe I'm being unreasonable to want a little more from that fight.

QuoteSpud, don't be so abrasive, people are entitled to their opinions

Contrary to the platitudes we tell pre-schoolers, opinions can be, and frequently are, grossly wrong. Tomato stated his flatly incorrect opinion as fact, I corrected him to avoid confusion.

Quoteyou've certainly got enough of your own.

The difference is, mine are usually right.