The Flash (possible Spoilers)

[Shogunn2517]

Quite the episode!  A thing we have been waiting to happen all season has now happened as well as something we didn't expect.

Spoiler

Barry Allen is seemingly killed during the attempt to repower him, but as his disentegrating essence leaves, it strikes both Wally and Jesse, so I'm guessing they now have super speed as well, or will now start developing it.

And of course he isn't dead, and the preview for new episode spoiled what did happen to him.

It was an episode to watch indeed.

Spoiler

I'm going to have to rewatch to see how Wally and Jesse gets hit and the others did.  Either way, I have doubts we'll see Kid Flash or Jesse Quick this season.  Maybe they'll use their powers in the finale, but costumed...

Moreover, I got reminded of the episode "Hearafter" from the Justice League when Toyman "disintegrated" Superman.  Batman's theory(or his facts) was matter can't be destroyed, but only changes form.  Makes me wonder if this was a similar situation how is his costume torn.

But a good episode.  Particularly then latter part.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Anyone have any guesses about the big hint dropped tonight

Spoiler

Namely that Garrick is the maiden name of Barry's paternal grandmother.  Did we even hear Earth 2 Barry's last name?  I'm wondering if the real Earth 2 Garrick hidden under that iron mask is in fact the Earth 2 Henry Allen.

[Shogunn2517]

Wow...  Gotta say I never thought about it, but at the same time it's what I actually wanted from the start.

Spoiler

From the get-go when they announced that they were bringing in John Wesley Shipp, I hoped that he would play Jay Garrick.  It would make sense from the last guy to play the Flash plays the "older Flash".  Was disappointed when he was just "dad" and only in for a handful of episodes.  But now with them bringing him back, and Teddy Sears is Hunter Zoloman of Earth 2, then that would allow JWS to be Jay Garrick of Earth 2.  Knowing that Garrick is the family name, which would also be the family name from Earth 2.  Henry Allen of Earth 2 is indeed Jay Garrick.  I like that theory so much, I'd be disappointed if he isn't.

Fun fact I just realized:  the actors playing Henry Allen and Barry Allen are both from the same hometown as I am.

[Silver Shocker]

It was a pretty exciting cliffhanger, and I was thinking in the closing moments of the show the possibilities from a storytelling point of view you could go with from there...

Spoiler

Can you imagine if they kept Barry dead, or alive but depowered, and actually made Wally and Jessie (with powers of course) the new main characters? How ballsy would that be? But then you have to take a step back and realize that if anything like that actually happened, the media hype machine, rumor mill and promotional circuit (just look at how many plot turns get spoiled in these shows through on set photos of the characters) would have spoiled the hell out of it weeks, if not months in advance. I can just imagine the headlines now: "Game-changing event", "Bold New Direction", "Is Grant Gustin leaving "The Flash?"

Canada didn't even get the next episode preview (showing the preview for this week's Legends of Tomorrow instead, which they've aired like a million times by then) so I didn't even know where they were going. Now that I do, I'm a little disappointing, but the prospect of a "Hereafter" esque story sounds intriguing. Bonus points if Vandal Savage is there at the end of civilization.

I feel like I both like and don't like the current arc in Flash. I like seeing where the story goes and Zoom (as voiced by Tony Todd) is a suitably menacing presence as a villain, and I like the returning characters and such, but it kinda feels like the plot getting stretched out as much as possible at this point.

[Tomato]

@Silver Shocker

Spoiler

First of all, episode preview is up at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq2ocveLT-Y on the official DC Entertainment YouTube channel, since that's how I have to see it (I watch everything on Hulu). Second, I think you've misinterpreted what Shogunn was saying. Watch the preview, because I believe he was talking about more HOW Wells and Cisco figure out Barry isn't dead, more than a "he's in the future" timeline.

[Silver Shocker]

Oh ok. Yeah I definitely didn't get his meaning. I'll have to put that preview on and check it out.

[HarryTrotter]

The Prophets from DS9 were actually Speed Force?Makes sense.   

[Failed_Hero]

Tuesday's episode was wonderful, I am so glad they added the spiritual  nature of the speed force to an already great show... there are so many things they can do with this aspect  of the Flash's story.

[Talavar]

The Prophets from DS9 were actually Speed Force?Makes sense.   

That is exactly what I thought!  Though being a good Starfleet officer, I mentally put it as 'Wormhole aliens.'

[thalaw2]

Spoiler

It was awesome to see the main characters from the OG Flash back together!  I sooooooo hope that they don't kill Henry Allen off.  I'd still watch the show, but I was really looking forward to how the writers would fit Henry into the show.  I guess their ain't enough money to keep the cast so large.  Maybe Dr. Mcgee will still be around.

[Tomato]

@thalaw

Spoiler

I think Henry is dead, but the actor will remain in the series as the "real" Jay Garrick. They hinted at that when Henry said his mother's maiden name was Garrick, and John Wesley Shipp got coy months ago about donning a flash costume again. Not to mention how many fans were hoping he would be Garrick back when he was initially cast.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

My thinking on how this will work

Spoiler

Once Barry takes down Zoom, he will take his speed back, but won't need it any more, so he'll give it to the real Jay Garrick so that Earth 2 can have a Flash too.

[daglob]

The Prophets from DS9 were actually Speed Force?Makes sense.   

That is exactly what I thought!  Though being a good Starfleet officer, I mentally put it as 'Wormhole aliens.'

What about aliens from the planet Scalos?

[Talavar]

The Prophets from DS9 were actually Speed Force?Makes sense.   

That is exactly what I thought!  Though being a good Starfleet officer, I mentally put it as 'Wormhole aliens.'

What about aliens from the planet Scalos?

Nice reference -- I admit I had to google that one to match the planet to the episode.  They definitely struck me as more like the wormhole aliens/prophets though--vaguely helpful, but also kinda pointless most of the time.  That, and the using other cast members to talk to our hero through.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

My theory was mostly right!

Spoiler

The man in the mask is Jay Garrick/alt Henry Allen!  Only part I got wrong was that he came from a different earth.  Very nice to see him in a Flash suit again.

Also, Flashpoint!  A season after I was expecting it.  Maybe.  We actually don't know what the results will be, so it may not be the same.

[Tomato]

Spoiler

A friend of mine who isn't familiar with the comics was discussing it with me, and we hit on an interesting theory... with Flash stopping Thawne, we're actually back to the original timeline... meaning this is potentially the timeline where Barry first encounters the Reverse Flash, AND the one where he ends up telling his younger self NOT to change the timeline. It's also (potentially) the timeline where he inadvertantly creates the conflict with Reverse Flash.

In other words, we're actually coming back to where RF was at the beginning of this whole mess.

Edit: Just because I wanted a clear shot of it after the episode and looked it up-

Spoiler

John Wesley Shipp as The Flash.

[daglob]

It's not really old fashioned enough, but I like it.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Spoiler

Shipp just had an interview about this in which he seems to hint that he's not done with the show in his new role as Jay Garrick and seems to indicate that he'll be showing up in Legends of Tomorrow with the Justice Society, or at least a version of the character will.

http://screenrant.com/flash-season-3-jay-garrick-jsa-legends-tomorrow/

[HarryTrotter]

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-flash-tom-felton/
Draco Malfoy is coming to Central City.

[Podmark]

Kid-Flash revealed!
And he looks great!

[spydermann93]

I love it!

[thalaw2]

I like that the series will be exploring Flashpoint.  I'm really excited to see how this is handled in a TV series. 

[Talavar]

I like that the series will be exploring Flashpoint.  I'm really excited to see how this is handled in a TV series.

Hopefully due to the changes in the timeline, Barry won't be as much of an idiot as last season.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

New Flashpoint Trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LGQRbPERaU

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Well that was unexpected and even a bit disappointing

Spoiler

I really didn't expect Flashpoint to end that quickly and for that small (IMO) of a reason.

Still, he's permanently altered his timeline in a number of ways, so we'll see just how that goes.  It seems like all the major events are there, but he's altered some relationships and the like.  I can't say that I care for using that to add more drama for no good reason.

The action was still good and I liked the Rival.

[Podmark]

Episode was alright.

Spoiler

I was surprised Flashpoint ended in one episode. Kinda thought it might last a while.
I liked seeing Wally in costume. I wonder if/when they'll get him back in it.

I did have one interesting speculation watching the end. Thawne warns Barry about changes to the timeline and I'm wondering if he's left a new surprise for him in the form of Tom Felton's character.

[crimsonquill]

Spoiler

That's the thing about the episode.. Flashpoint didn't start and end in that episode.. That's the twist.. It's the theme of the whole season. Eobard killed his mother just like should have but he also messed with the timeline to his advantage after returning Barry home. "Oh, you will find out." He knew that putting Barry in a no win situation that he would be let loose and might as well make things worse for everyone.

[Talavar]

Spoiler

I've got big (and growing) problems with how this show is treating time travel.  First, they're acting like the timeline where his mother dies is the original, but Reverse Flash changed the past by killing her.  Also, while they're demonstrating some long-term changes to the present, some that should happen haven't (or at least haven't been shown).  For instance, if the Reverse Flash wasn't stuck in the past now, did Harrison Wells still get killed?   Why did the Flash get his powers so early (they said earlier that Harrison/Reverse Flash made the accelerator explode to get Flash his powers sooner than originally) Is Eddie dead?  (It's also never made sense that if Eddie is dead, why isn't Flash's mom alive?  If Eddie is dead the Reverse Flash should never have existed, so how could he kill Flash's mom?  How could he do anything?  The whole timeline should have changed when Eddie shot himself).

This show is handling time travel so poorly, and it's such a major part of the show that I'm really getting turned off.  Here's hoping things improve.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

About his mother and the ending of season 1.

Spoiler

They earlier explained that past events like that which would be negated by future actions still exist by a pocket timeline.  It doesn't make sense if you think too hard about it, but nothing about time travel ever usually does.

[Shogunn2517]

Spoiler

I've got big (and growing) problems with how this show is treating time travel.  First, they're acting like the timeline where his mother dies is the original, but Reverse Flash changed the past by killing her.  Also, while they're demonstrating some long-term changes to the present, some that should happen haven't (or at least haven't been shown).  For instance, if the Reverse Flash wasn't stuck in the past now, did Harrison Wells still get killed?   Why did the Flash get his powers so early (they said earlier that Harrison/Reverse Flash made the accelerator explode to get Flash his powers sooner than originally) Is Eddie dead?  (It's also never made sense that if Eddie is dead, why isn't Flash's mom alive?  If Eddie is dead the Reverse Flash should never have existed, so how could he kill Flash's mom?  How could he do anything?  The whole timeline should have changed when Eddie shot himself).

This show is handling time travel so poorly, and it's such a major part of the show that I'm really getting turned off.  Here's hoping things improve.

Jeez, man I you just ruined the whole season for me. Lol

But heck, you're right.

Spoiler

It doesn't make a heap of sense.  I was think about that after Reverse Flash killed Nora and took Barry back to the future(present).  I immediately begin to try to remember "why isn't the reverse flash in the present again?"  Oh, he's Harrison Wells.  Why is he Harrison Wells?  Oh, because he needed to make the Particle Accelerator go off sooner.  Why did it need to happen sooner?  Oh because he needed Barry to become the Flash.  Why did he need Barry to become the Flash?  Oh so the Flash can take him back to the future(future).  Why couldn't he go back to the future?  Oh because he began to lose his speed... 

Well, if he begin to lose his speed, then how did he take Barry back to the present to begin with?  That bothered me.  It bothered me that there was just something randomly wrong with Iris... I'm sure they'll explain it, but now I almost feel like watching a tv show midway through the 3rd season without having watched the previous 2 and a half seasons.  Like I didn't watch Supergirl.  I saw the first episode, the Henshaw reveal and the Flash crossover.  But if I start watching season 2, will feel like I missed some things?  That's how I think I'll feel watching the Flash.  Okay, Barry was raised by Joe, I get it.  He has a thing for Iris, I get that.  Joe found Wally...  how?  He's beefing with Iris? 

And now Talavar's annoyingly great points he made(annoying because now the show's having a hard time making sense).  If Eobard Thawn can just run up and down the timeline after killing Nora, then what need does he have for Harrison Wells?  And if he doesn't need to be Harrison Wells, how is Barry the Flash in 2016 when Wells doesn't build the Particle Accelerator until 2020.  And like he said, in 2015 Eddie Thawn killed himself.  And thus killed Eobard Thawn... and if Eobard Thawn is dead, then how does he go back to kill Nora?  Or when Barry rescues his mom, he also rescued Eddie and Eobard Thawn.  He stopped him from killing Nora.  So then he doesn't lose his speed, he doesn't kill Harrison Wells, who doesn't build the Particle Accelerator in 2014, which doesn't create the Flash, who doesn't fight the reverse flash in 2015 and Eddie Thawn doesn't shoot himself in 2015 to stop the Reverse Flash from existing... which allows him to go back and kill Nora.  But why would he do that if the Flash never existed?  Or the Flash did exist, just in 2020 when the Particle Accelerator was built.  So what's going on in 2016? 

Or maybe just after he dropped Barry off, he went back to 1999 and took Harrison Well's place anyway.

One thing is for sure, when you're dealing with time, everything has to happen the way it did or anything can change.  This is getting a little too messy.