Arrow (Green Arrow) TV series

[thalaw2]

Oh and somethign funny I found and those who watched the episode will recognize it
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/863/2407/original.jpg

Yeah!  I could so relate to that scene.  LOL!  This was yet another great episode IMO.  I hope the same level of excellence can be kept in Flash.  Speaking of which after this ep. of Arrow it seems we know another member of the Flash cast...for those of us what didn't know.

[Glitch Girl]

GAH!!  Thanks to SEC basketball, I missed the last few minutes of the episode!  I had to find out online that

Spoiler

Laurel went to AA and that Slade showed up in the Queen home.

And I REALLY want to see that last one, but I won't be able to because my modem died last night and I won't have a new one until Monday (sob).

(posting from work BTW, shhh)

[Deaths Jester]

Loved what they did with Clock King!  Definitely a great revamp of the character.

[Midnite]

Arrow - Full Circle Extended Trailer

[Glitch Girl]

Some interesting name drops this latest episode.

The painters mentioned during the art tour: Swan and Kubert... very clever Arrow, very clever.

As for the two new characters... rumor has it that the Pied Piper will be joining Flash, and I have to say that the priest (Thomas Flynn) bears a lot of the signs of becoming that character.  Or maybe not.  Still, I like him. 

And the other: he shares a name with the KGBeast, but we have seen him in the present so hard to say.

[JeyNyce]

I'm think that Arrow is going to spin off a lot of TV shows.  First you have the Flash and if they can, I can see Suicide Squad getting their own show too

[Cyber Burn]

I'm think that Arrow is going to spin off a lot of TV shows.  First you have the Flash and if they can, I can see Suicide Squad getting their own show too

It would be awesome to see more DC Shows spring boarding from Arrow, I've noticed a few mentions of "Kord", and I would love to see a Blue Beetle spin-off, but that said, I really hope that Arrow maintains it's own identity, and doesn't JUST become a launching point for other series. 

[crimsonquill]

I have no doubt that DC/WB would LOOOOOVE to have CW network become home to a whole group of DC Televerse shows beyond Arrow. I am extremely sure The Flash will be a success with all of the rumors I'm hearing about the pilot in production. Suicide Squad seems to be next in line for a team series in the near future. Gotham hopefully will do well even if it takes place much earlier in the Televerse.

- CQ

[Starman]

I think "Hourman" was also being discussed at one point ... I guess that would focus on the inventor of the "mirakuru"?

Personally, I'd like to see a Starman, Vigilante, The Question or Sandman Mystery Theatre series.

I'm looking forward to seeing how iZombie turn out on CW.

[Glitch Girl]

The discussed "Hourman" series is "Hourman In Name Only". 
http://www.themarysue.com/cw-hourman-tv-show/

from the Hollywood Reporter

Hourman centers on a brilliant-yet-troubled pharmaceutical analyst who discovers that the visions that have plagued him since childhood are actually glimpses of tragic events occurring one hour in the future. Determined to win back his ex-wife and son, he heroically prevents these tragedies from unfolding, finding both purpose and redemption along the way.

[Starman]

Surely the fact he works in pharmaceuticals would imply Miralco? Because seeing into the future (although it happens in the comic) is really played out as the basis for a TV series ... Tru Calling, The Dead Zone, etc.

[thalaw2]

Anyone else notice the voice cameo of

Spoiler

Harley Quinn

?

[Glitch Girl]

How could we not? 

I wonder how the rights for her would play out?  I heard rumors that Nightwing is supposed to show up soon, so there are some cross-overness allowed.  However, who knows what rights are tied up where.

Another questions

Spoiler

Show of hands, who thinks Shrapnel is actually dead?

No one?  Thought so.

No, once they established how easy it was to remove the device, and considering he's an explosives expert, I suspect we'll be seeing him again

There were a few gaping logic holes in this episode that kept me from enjoying it fully, but there was still a lot to like.

Deadshot is REALLY growing on me.  I hope we see more of him later on down the line. 

[bat1987]

I actually read somewhere that it was always supposed to be just a cameo. Still I think it was pretty cool.

[Glitch Girl]

added bonus.

Spoiler

Tara Strong did the line 

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I wonder how the rights for her would play out?  I heard rumors that Nightwing is supposed to show up soon, so there are some cross-overness allowed.  However, who knows what rights are tied up where.

Simple.  WB has them.  All of them.  They have for years.  Strangely, DC seems to pretend that they don't and have to approve each and every use of a character.  There are some characters inherited from other companies where its a bit more complicated than that, but in general, WB has all the rights, but WB and DC pretend that they do not for some wierd and overly complicated reason.

[Podmark]

I wonder how the rights for her would play out?  I heard rumors that Nightwing is supposed to show up soon, so there are some cross-overness allowed.  However, who knows what rights are tied up where.

Simple.  WB has them.  All of them.  They have for years.  Strangely, DC seems to pretend that they don't and have to approve each and every use of a character.  There are some characters inherited from other companies where its a bit more complicated than that, but in general, WB has all the rights, but WB and DC pretend that they do not for some wierd and overly complicated reason.

Sadly it's not that easy. I'm quite certain when Fox signed their contracts for Gotham there was some kind of TV control and/or exclusivity involved. But we'll see.

Arrow's show runner Guggenheim has said that Shrapnel is dead (take that for what it is), and that Harley was just a cameo at this point (again take it for what it is).

Harley cameo was quite cool!

[Deaths Jester]

Loved the Squad...specially Harley's little cameo.  Perhaps the best show they've done even with the gapping holes.  WHy can't DC write their comics like this?

[Tomato]

Loved the Squad...specially Harley's little cameo.  Perhaps the best show they've done even with the gapping holes.  WHy can't DC write their comics like this?

Because that requires they put effort in and we all know DC despises effort.

[BentonGrey]

Yeah Cat, while it SHOULD be that simple because WB DOES own all the characters, they have no coherent plan for their use, so they have whored-err-I-mean-loaned them out piecemeal.  That creates a confusing web of rights that do silly things like not allowing Aquaman to be used in a show because he might be in a movie (no he won't).  If only they'd follow Marvel's example, but clearly the House of Ideas' success is just a flash in the pan and no indicator of the actual quality of their plans.

This thread constantly makes me sad because a lot of these things sound cool, but I just don't think I can enjoy them in the style of Arrow. 

[Podmark]

Yeah Cat, while it SHOULD be that simple because WB DOES own all the characters, they have no coherent plan for their use, so they have whored-err-I-mean-loaned them out piecemeal.  That creates a confusing web of rights that do silly things like not allowing Aquaman to be used in a show because he might be in a movie (no he won't).  If only they'd follow Marvel's example, but clearly the House of Ideas' success is just a flash in the pan and no indicator of the actual quality of their plans.

This thread constantly makes me sad because a lot of these things sound cool, but I just don't think I can enjoy them in the style of Arrow. 

Marvel's not really that different, at least in terms of movie rights. The X-Men and FF movie rights are with Fox and Spidey is with Sony. Of course the TV rights are in better shape (as far as I know). However I'm quite certain Marvel is just as careful with who gets put on their TV shows compared to their movies. The characters sent to Netflix, for example, wouldn't really have been able to support movies on their own at this point (except maybe Daredevil, but for him it's basically a redemption project).
But yeah Marvel has obviously done a better job with things.

[BentonGrey]

Ehh, I don't think that's entirely fair Pod, as the deals that took the X-Men, Spidey, and Fantastic 4 out of house were made BEFORE the formation of the Marvel studio.  That was a complete game changer for Marvel, and since then they have handled their properties much more intelligently. 

[vorelliwiseau]

As much as I hate to admit it (not too much, though, The Avengers was amazing), Marvel's done a better job of setting up their movies.

Which is why I badly want the Arrowverse to go for integration. Marvel's clearly dominating the movie audience, but if DC goes for the television route with well-written stories and a good world-building plan, the sting won't hurt as bad.

Also, hang on: with Harley in the Squad, does this mean Joker (and by extension Batman) already exist in this universe?

[Podmark]

Ehh, I don't think that's entirely fair Pod, as the deals that took the X-Men, Spidey, and Fantastic 4 out of house were made BEFORE the formation of the Marvel studio.  That was a complete game changer for Marvel, and since then they have handled their properties much more intelligently.

Yeah that's fair.
Ultimately it really comes down to success though. If Iron Man hadn't done well things probably would have played out differently for Marvel Studios. And I think DC took a big hit when Green Lantern flopped.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Marvel set out from the beginning to gather all the rights together and create an integrated universe with crossovers happening everywhere.  They couldn't help the deals they had already made (X-Men, Fantastic 4 and so forth) but they've controlled thing much more intelligently.  Granted, no one had ever tried to do a large scale unified universe like this before, ever.

DC's pretty much flopped around.  They do sometime get something good going, but there's no real unified plan or direction.

It's possible that Arrow may end up being a game changer, because a unified TV universe may be taking shape around it.  If DC plays their cards right, it could go well for them, especially since Marvel has done relatively little on television as of late, Agents of SHIELD notwithstanding, so there's no real competition there.

[BentonGrey]

Good points Cat, though I have trouble sharing everyone's enthusiasm for the "Arrowverse."  If it grows into something more faithful to the comics and with less WB stench on it, I could be onboard, but I feel like they're starting out from such a crippled place that I'd rather these new shows NOT be unified.  This just kills me, because I'll always be more of a DC fan than a Marvel fan.

Yeah that's fair.
Ultimately it really comes down to success though. If Iron Man hadn't done well things probably would have played out differently for Marvel Studios. And I think DC took a big hit when Green Lantern flopped.

Well Pod, that's true, but look at your two examples.  Why did Iron Man succeed?  Why did Green Lantern fail?  They are two excellent examples of the collective approaches of their respective owners.  Marvel has treated their properties as something valuable in their own right, so they have brought their characters to the big screen with great respect for the source material.  Unsurprisingly to anyone who isn't a Hollywood suit (read: anyone who's not a close-minded moron without a sense of pattern-recognition), concepts and stories that had endured for 60+ years turned out to have appealing elements that resonated with audiences.  WB, on the other hand, has no idea what comics are actually about and only treats their properties as resources to be mined for a quick buck.  There's no understanding of what makes comics good or why their characters are beloved.

[Podmark]

To be honest I've never really been sure why precisely Green Lantern failed. I've only seen it once and it didn't really do much for me. But the only things I can really say about are that I didn't find Ryan Reynolds to be an ideal Hal Jordan, and I wasn't happy with their choices of villains. Anyway all I was saying is that had GL been successful WB would have felt confidence in the people making that movie and the strength of their comics properties and they'd probably be a stronger place now. The Nolan Batman movies did well for them but now they're over. They probably consider Superman a success but not a perfect one, but at this point it's their only franchise to work with, thus MoS2 being used as jumping point for their DC universe. I worry they're trying to do too much too fast with that.

I'm with everyone else: Marvel Studios is excellent. Smart people making quality movies. I love it. So what made Iron Man a success? To me I always zeroed in on three things: Robert Downey Jr, a snappy script, and the suit (it looked very cool and real). It's a fun movie that's easy to enjoy. But I have to imagine if that movie hadn't done well for whatever reason we'd be living in a completely different world comic movies wise. A flop might have killed Marvel Studios right there, and I do wonder what might happen if one of their future movies fails. One of the core ones, if Guardians fails I think they'll just consider it a risk that doesn't pay off.


Bringing it back to TV properties and Arrow, as discussed above I'm curious how WB/DC will handle Gotham and Arrow. Past history makes me expect that they won't acknowledge each other. They're different networks and could even end up directly competing against each other. And with Gotham setup as a prequel there isn't a big drive to pursue crossovers between the two shows. Also I wonder how many super hero shows TV can really support, especially if they are interconnected. There's only so much prime time air space and CW or any other station isn't going to become a super hero only zone. Once shows start crossing networks keeping them connected becomes more difficult as you're dealing with different people and corporate entities. Anyway it's moot for now. We have Arrow, we'll probably have Flash. I'm not sure if I Zombie is supposed to be connected, and Hourman is that far along yet. Then there's Gotham and Constantine, and Marvel has SHIELD and it's upcoming Netflix's shows. That quite a bit of comics shows on TV.

Yeah, Benton if CW shows aren't your thing I can't see Flash or any other comics series they do working for you. Everything I've ever watched from that station has always had certain similarities here or there.

[BentonGrey]

Well, I think there are many reasons that Green Lantern failed, not the least of which is the fact that the film was an uneven mess.  It had good bits (some of the scenes on Oa), but it was practically incoherent in other parts.  The love of the source material infuses the Marvel movies, and that was entirely missing from GL. 

As for what might have happened, you're probably right Pod.  The cinematic landscape would undoubtedly be a lot different if Iron Man had flopped.  As you say though, Marvel is doing it right, so the success of Iron Man seems just a result of good judgment and faithfulness to the source material, rather than luck. (For clarity sake, I realize you're not arguing that the latter is the case)

Good points on the TV front.  Yep, that's my biggest problem with these shows.  I feel like I've seen all of it before.

[Cyber Burn]

I'll agree with Benton in that Green Lantern really didn't show much love for the source material, and I'll agree with Pod that Ryan Reynolds really wasn't the best casting choice, he just wasn't Hal Jordan. I think the costume is what really killed it for me though. I thought it was just a horrible, horrible rendition of it.

As for Arrow, I'm now a couple of episodes behind, but it's been the only WB series that's been able to keep my attention past the first season. The show to do that was Nikita, and that only kept my interest until about the middle of season two. Hopefully Arrow continues to blend story with action successfully, and I'm really hoping that the Flash doesn't disappoint.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Don't forget that the entire reason that Marvel Studios exists in the first place is that Marvel got sick and tired of exactly the sort of thing happening that DC still has happen now.  They figured if they, the comic book people could control the movies themselves, they could create something that was both good and more faithful to the source material.  They were right on both counts.  It was still considered a huge risk at the time, but they firmly believed that what people loved about the comics would work just as well on film, whatever conventional wisdom may have to say about it.  It was a pretty tough step to make, but it paid off, big time.

Perhaps the biggest problem with DC is that they are unwilling to take such a huge risk.  Even Arrow, as successful as its been, was really only following the lead of Batman Begins, and is on a channel where low ratings are expected anyway.  It's about as far away from a risk as you can get.