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Sherlock

Started by Uncle Yuan, October 03, 2011, 02:46:46 AM

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Talavar

My, that was delightful.  Here's looking forward to Hound of the Baskervilles this weekend!

XStream

Noticed this is on Netflix (Yeah, I am one of the few that didn't cancel) the other day, and added it to Que.
I am not, nor have I ever been a Rude Naked Hero!

Tomato

Great second episode. I'll admit I have almost zero interest in horror stories in general, but this was presented in a way that was both entertaining and mysterious... And really, the idea of a government base as the new haunted house was great.

Reepicheep

#33
This is my favourite Sherlock Holmes novel (as, I'm sure, is true for many fans). I think they did it terrific justice, in their own way. Very exciting episode.


But next is The Final Problem which was just an awesome short story. I recommend anyone read it before it airs, because there is absolutely no doubt it is going to either have a phenomenal plot twist or a great cliff hanger.


Spoiler
I'm a bit unclear of how they're handling Holmes' cocaine addiction. They obviously don't want to say it out loud, but I can't tell if they've just replaced it with a smoking habit or if they're just being hush-hush.

Jeremy Brett (himself, not the director) actually opted for Holmes to drop his Cocaine addiction since he was such an idol to kids.

Tomato

Spoiler
I think it's more or less replaced with the smoking habit, but they've alluded several times to the fact that Holmes has done cocaine in the past (the drug bust, the "perhaps something 7% stronger" remark in this last episode while he was struggling with nicotine withdrawl, etc.). But unless it comes up in one of the cases, I doubt it will play a huge role regardless.

I have to admit though, while I am perhaps most excited for the Sherlock/"Jim" rematch, I'm most afraid for that one as well. Whereas episodes 1 and 2 of this season were written by Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss respectfully (Gatiss also portrays Mycroft Holmes, for those not aware) who have already written stellar episodes of both Sherlock and Doctor Who, "The Reichenbach Fall" will be written by Steve Thompson, whose main accomplishments in television have been "The Blind Banker" from last season of Sherlock, and "The Curse of the Black Spot" from Doctor Who. IMHO, both of those were perhaps the worst episodes from their perspective seasons, and I'm just not sure putting your worst writer on the Sherlock finale is a great plan.

Reepicheep

Spoiler
I'm semi-disappointed. I think I get most of how he did it, and it was interesting to work out. But throughout the episode, there just wasn't the chance for Sherlock/Cumberbatch to shine in the way he usually does ever so dynamically. Instead, Sherlock just seemed a bit dim and dumbfounded at points (even I didn't believe the computer code that opened any door shinazzle, and it definitely wasn't going to be a dozen or so numbers of binary). There was just no intellect behind how the plot let him be clever, except where ideas were taken from the original novels. Moriarty's plan was... artistic and theatrical rather than clever. Which I guess works to the effect desired. Altogether, I suppose I feel like Holmes just didn't put up much of a fight in this, and the story itself wasn't particularly intelligent - maybe a little too actiony.

I did appreciate, however, that we were left with a solvable mystery, and not so much a cliffhanger.

Next spoiler for my theories

Spoiler

Working backwards through the episode, its pretty clear that Molly was involved to announce Sherlock dead, since she works in a Morgue. So that ground is covered.

Watson was knocked to the ground by a person on a bike, who cycles on remorselessly. Who was he? Will call him Person A.

Before that, Sherlock jumps from the rooftop. We can be sure that is him. If it isn't Sherlock on the ground, however, it is made to look very similar to him.

Before that, Sherlock tells Watson exactly where to stand. Like, exactly. Which just so happens to be where the view is obscured by another rooftop.

(I don't get why Moriarty shot himself. That desperate to make Holmes commit suicide? Nah. If thats it, then... blergh to Thompson and his writing. That being said, Moriarty does die in the similar novel, so it may be an element of having to keep true to the book.)

Sherlock says the words "I am you". Possibly some connection with "I O U"? Other repeated lines I think might be important at this point are "You're on the side of the angels."

On the rooftop, Moriarty looks down at the ground and says "You have a spectator." or something similar. Why is that person brought to our attention? Will call him Person B.

Going back a little further, John receives a call from someone telling him to go back to Baker Street. This can't be part of Moriarty's plan, because Moriarty's gunman was ready at the hospital. More likely to be Holmes getting John into position. Who called him? Person C, for now.

It was Holmes who invited Moriarty to the rooftop. Not the other way around. At this point, Holmes must have known for sure that Moriarty planned on having Holmes commit suicide.

Part of me reckons that Holmes didn't need the so-called key, but he did need an adequate guess in order to con Moriarty into being honest about it.

Think back even further. The girl screams at Holmes. Ignoring the possibility that Holmes is actually guilty, somehow someone has managed to replicate Holme's image perfectly. Could be a double, could be a costume, could be a lot of things. The fact is, we know that it is definitely possible. I suppose that Holmes used the same technique in faking his death. Could Person B be involved in that?

Slightly before that, while trying to locate the warehouse the two kids are captive in, Holmes idly mentions that his homeless people network is more efficient than the police. I think this is the final clue. Its true to the books too. Holmes has an enormous army in his pocket at his disposal. Could they be people A, B and C?

Altogether, it seems to me that Holmes could use Person B to manage some sort of Switcheroo to make it seem like he landed, even though he had doctored the rooftop and the area to allow himself a safe landing. He had a whole night to do so, since he spoke to Molly as she was leaving the night before and it was daytime when he met Moriarty. It is possible that the body is him, or he used the same trick as Moriarty to recreate his image. He bought himself time by positioning John - the only person he really needed to deceive - exactly where he wanted and then, maybe, knocking him over with a bike. Finally, Molly faked his death on the paperwork, and Holmes is now officially dead.

I've read a few other ideas, one thing that helps my theory is that a disposal truck (driven by a homeless guy?) shoots past as Holmes falls, possibly allowing a soft landing and a quick getaway.

What I do not get is the motif IOU. If it really is "I owe you a fall", then I'm a bit 'meh'. Seems a little bit pointless, especially to call those letters 'the final problem' and then spraypaint them everywhere. I might need to watch the episode again to get it, if there is anything to get.

Another thing I noticed - did the gunman pointing at John look a lot like Sherlock to you? It was dark and I might be mistaken.

Tomato

Spoiler

I can see where you're coming from with most of this, but having just watched everything a second time, I thought I might correct you on a few minor points

Quote(I don't get why Moriarty shot himself. That desperate to make Holmes commit suicide? Nah. If thats it, then... blergh to Thompson and his writing. That being said, Moriarty does die in the similar novel, so it may be an element of having to keep true to the book.)

I saw it more as Moriarty just being petty. He saw that he couldn't beat Holmes the way he wanted to, so he took his own life... and by doing so, he presumably doomed Holmes and/or everything he loved.

QuoteOn the rooftop, Moriarty looks down at the ground and says "You have a spectator." or something similar. Why is that person brought to our attention? Will call him Person B.

You misread the scene... what actually happens here is that a bus pulls up to the side of the building (not clear because the bus is already there when we first look down) and people start filing out... Moriarty sees this and says something like "Now we've even got witnesses" or sommat. It doesn't rule out your theory, but the scene does not point out one person in particular.

QuoteAnother thing I noticed - did the gunman pointing at John look a lot like Sherlock to you? It was dark and I might be mistaken.

I thought something similar, so I watched him closely the second time. It was clearly NOT Sherlock, nor was it really a decent lookalike.

bredon7777

Spoiler

Quote from: Reepicheep on January 30, 2012, 02:51:35 AM

Spoiler

Working backwards through the episode, its pretty clear that Molly was involved to announce Sherlock dead, since she works in a Morgue. So that ground is covered.
Correct.

Quote
Before that, Sherlock jumps from the rooftop. We can be sure that is him.

No, we can't.  Our POV character for this scene is Watson, and I'm pretty sure we cant trust his perceptions. My money is on Sherlock dosing him with the HOUND drug, to render him suggestible.

Quote
(I don't get why Moriarty shot himself. That desperate to make Holmes commit suicide? Nah. If thats it, then... blergh to Thompson and his writing. That being said, Moriarty does die in the similar novel, so it may be an element of having to keep true to the book.)

Moriarty had been looking for an excuse to kill himself for ages.  That's why he kept talking about the "final problem", i.e. "Why should I stay alive in this boring world?".  The only reason he's stayed alive is because he's always won. When Sherlock demonstrated that he both could and would torture the hit call off code out of Moriarity, meaning Moriarity would lose, he gave Moriarity the excuse he'd been looking for to kill himself. That's why he thanked Sherlock so profusely.

Quote
Going back a little further, John receives a call from someone telling him to go back to Baker Street. This can't be part of Moriarty's plan, because Moriarty's gunman was ready atthe hospital. More likely to be Holmes getting John into position.

Not so much him getting John into position as getting him out of the way, but basically yes.

Quote
Think back even further. The girl screams at Holmes. Ignoring the possibility that Holmes is actually guilty, somehow someone has managed to replicate Holme's image perfectly.


You're overcomplicating.  Try this instead: "I came and got you once in the middle of the night. If you don't scream your head off every time you see this man, I'll come and do it again. And this time, you WON'T survive."
"I can't wait to hear this guy's monologue. 'I am the Palindrome! Feel my power! Power my feel! Palindrome the am I!' Peter Piping weirdos." - The Middleman