JLA: The Yesterday's War

[John Jr.]

I was looking forward for your feedback, Benton. After all, I needed to know if I got Aquaman right...
About your notes:

Spoiler

*Yes, the main attack of the "swimming Aquaboy" is a combo, I designed him to be the "fast attacker" model, "land Aquaboy" have a different built.
*I still didn't tried to use the "flying melee" trick, I know it involves some coding and I still haven't time to check it out. But I will.
* I'm very glad you liked Artie's characterization. I tried my best get it right, so I re-read all Aquaboy's appearances I could find. Like I said before I know some huge Aquaman fans, so it's a big responsibility make him right for you guys.
*Yeah, I forgot to add the strings for the 2nd Atlanteans, my bad.
*I tried to make a relatively "easy" mission, so I avoided to use too many "thugs". I believe the first mission should be easier than the others, to give the player time to know the characters and the settings.
Did you liked the music and voices? It was hard to choose the right voices to the younger heroes.

I'm very glad you liked the first mission and hope you'll like the others too.
Thanks for the feedback and the revised texts. It will help me a lot!

[BentonGrey]

I also posted about 2 and 3, JJ!

*Ahh, I wasn't sure.
*It's just a keyframe thing.  Check out the builds of Superman, swimming Aquaman and the like in the DCUG, then look at their kf's. 
*You did a great job!
*Just a heads up
*Yeah, I understand that.

Whoops, I totally forgot to comment on that.  The music was good, a little soft, though.  You made the right choices in tunes.  The voices were good, though I think you could use the Aquaman pack from the JLA game, if you want.  You were probably trying to avoid making the mod too big.

[John Jr.]

I'm very glad you liked Mission 2 and 3 too, Benton.
Now,to your comments:

Spoiler

Superboy
* There are 1 or 2 health cannisters and 1 power cannister in the Superboy map, but maybe I should have used more, the Mission is really hard.
* I'm glad you liked Superboy and the Martians. Game balance and Hero File design is always so hard, I'm relieved it worked.
* I'm still trying to get this skoping and skinning thing and it's great to hear I got something right.
*I love the "Simple Choice" encounters, they let the player play detective and are great for Batman-like characters. Also, we can have different endings for different choices, like in the Superboy encounter. EZScript is great!

Brave and Bold
*I really wanted to use John Jones here, so I designed him as an "undercover hero", with limited powers, since he was hiding his true nature.
* The Executioner was tough to design. He couldn't be too strong, since he had to be weaker than Batman, but he needed to be to be useful in a fight. His Hero File was kinda of a challenge.
*I'm glad you liked Hal's cameo, I had to include him
*The Mission was shorter than the others, maybe I should have included one or two more encounters, but I was afraid it could become boring fight wave after wave of soldiers.

Once again thanks for the feedback, it helped a lot!
PS: I used Aquaman's vp for Aquaman himself, but since the vp has a very mature, regal tone, I needed something younger and brasher to Aquaboy.

[JKCarrier]

Seeing Benton's comments reminded me that I had downloaded this, but never gotten around to playing. I thought it turned out great! Of course, I love the use of the old comics continuity, and seeing the JLAers as teenagers. I thought the missions were well-designed, and the use of special tricks like the "simple choice" encounters fit in very well.

Spoiler

That fight with the Martian General was tricky...I hammered away at him in vain for quite a while before I finally noticed that suspicious little gadget hiding in the corner of the map. 

All in all, a very nice job.

[John Jr.]

I'm very glad you liked it, JK!
I'm a big fan of the 70's team books and I really wanted to play with the classic JLA and their teenage counterparts.
I'm glad you liked the missions, I tried to use different encounters to make the missions more interesting.
Thanks for the feedback and for the kind words.

[BentonGrey]

JJ, having played a few more more missions, I've got some more feedback for you!

*Whoops, I didn't notice those canisters.  In that case it's my own stupidity!
*Yeah, game balance is, in many ways, the hardest part of what we do.  With the DCUG's cast it was an unending nightmare.

Ohh, I had the volume turned up higher this time, and I heard the Executioner and Aquaboy's voice packs more clearly.  I take back what I said before.  Great choices!

Spoiler

#4 Legends:
*The base scene for this mission was fantastic.  Great work JJ!  You really have everyone's voice down.
*The mission itself was fun.  I LOVED taking Aquaboy up against those Martians.  He and the Executioner made quite the team.  Having Aquaboy clean the Martian soldier's clocks was fun.
*The mission did feel a bit on the empty side though.  You should probably switch the first and second "Rescue Caged" encounters, though.  You've got to pass through that courtyard with the stairs to get to that far room on the East side, and on my way back to the trap encounter, a new Cage encounter had spawned in that courtyard.
*I'd add one more encounter with a few more bad guys, maybe just randomized to appear in a random place, just to make the map feel a bit more populated. 
*The final battle was a lot of fun, and I liked the reveal of the green Martian.  The plot thickens!

Over all, it was a good mission.  It might benefit from a bit of expansion, but understand that is a minor quibble.  I enjoyed using Aquaboy, and I loved his line about "I'm even stronger up here."   

#5 DC Presents:
*This was a fun mission, and I liked the variety provided by the inclusion of Abin Sur.
*MM was written well, and I liked Superboy's discovery of Bel. 
*The gameplay itself was pretty cool.  I love that frantic scramble in super powered battles, knocking foes away, then racing to another to knock that one off of his feet, just so you don't get overwhelmed.
*Both heroes felt powerful, but balanced.  You really needed both of them to survive the Martian's attacks.
*Abin Sur was a great treat, and I loved the Martian tanks that were up against him.  Those were neat, what were they?

This was probably my favorite mission of the two.  I don't have any real notes for you on it, except that you might remove a few of the canisters.  I didn't really feel too threatened because there were plenty of health canisters around.  This mission provided a great ending to your first arc, and I very much enjoyed the dialog between Supes and MM at the close.

Well, that's it for the moment.  I'll try and post some edited mission texts sometime soon.  Given your choice of plot and setting, especially the lovely green skinned lady in DC Presents, I'm really curious to see what you'll make of the JLA campaign in the DCUG once you finish it, JJ. 

You've done a great job of taking the classic continuity and building a story out of the bones of old JLA issues, injecting new ideas to turn it into a complete adventure.  I can't wait to get to the next mission and the Injustice Gang!

[John Jr.]

I love detailed feedbacks, it's the only way we can know what we did right or wrong, so thanks for the tips, Benton.
Now to the details:

Spoiler

Legends:
*I'm glad you liked the mission. I believe Aquaboy and Executioner ended a well balanced team.
* The idea behind this mission was to let the heroes save the few surviving civilians and discover the real skope of the martian threat. I could have included more encounters, but I was afraid to make it too difficult. I tested it in different difficult levels and sometimes Aquaboy ended the mission bruised and alone.
*I'm glad you liked the stronger "land Aquaboy" too. I tried to make the two versions different enough to give the player some diversity.

DC Presents:
*I really wanted to use Abin, I find him an interesting, if underused, character and I thought it was logic to involve  him in the "War of the Worlds".
*I thought the cannisters were a way to let the player control the difficult level: if he finds the mission too hard he can use them, but if he wants a harder challenge he can just ignore them. In the "Hard" level I used almost all of them
*In the classic stories J'onn said the White Martians won the war thanks to their war machines, so I tried to show them. The tanks are drones made by Ink, I used two different versions and you can find a lot of them in his section on the Heroforce site. They're great for sci-fi settings.
*The J'onn/Bel/Superboy dialog was inspired by a scene of her first appearance in World's Finest # 212, I just made minor adaptations.
I noticed you are using the Morrisonesque Modern Age White Martians in your JLA arc and I was surprised when I saw a Modern version of Bel in the character selection screen. I'm curious to see how you'll use  "Bald Bel".    

I'm very glad you're liking the mod and I'm very grateful you found time to give me this feedback. it really helped me.
Thanks, buddy!

[BentonGrey]

Howdy JJ, I found some time tonight to play another level of this mod, and I thought I'd post my feedback.

Spoiler

#6 Secret Society
*I like that this mission picks up with the members of the League we haven't used yet.  That's a good choice.  It was a fun mission, but it felt the roughest of those we've seen so far.
*I also liked your choice of villains for this map.  I thought they were a nice mixture.
*The fight against Amazo was the highlight, but I feel like he should have been more dangerous.  He was certainly very tough, and when he DID hit someone, he hit hard...but something wasn't quite right in the balance.
*And I think that something was, at least partially, GL.  I feel like he was too tough.  The man with the ring is, after all, just a man.  The ring is pretty amazing stuff, but Hal had a boatload of hitpoints.  So many that I never felt I had to bother with his shield.  Amazo's ranged attacks weren't very powerful, and GL never got in range of his fists...so he wasn't really threatened. 
*Wonder Woman and Flash were both well designed and balanced, though.  I do think Flash could benefit from a charge attack.  That kind of thing helps him be useful in fights against super tough guys like Amazo.
*I like that you worked in the riddle, and I've got to say that it stumped me at first!  Also, I enjoyed Hal's line "I don't see how Batman can stand that guy..."
*The final showdown with Sinestro and Zoom was a bit of a letdown.  Zoom was a somewhat credible threat purely thanks to his speed, but Sinestro never did anything but a flaming punch.  I think this is an AI problem, as I looked at their builds and they seem fine.

All-in-all, this mission has very good elements, but there are pieces missing.

I also tried out the next one, and it was HARD!  Ha, I'll have to take another crack at it later.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I've downloaded it, but I have yet to start playing it, JJ....I'll get to it ASAP.

Dana

[John Jr.]

Howdy JJ, I found some time tonight to play another level of this mod, and I thought I'd post my feedback.

Spoiler

#6 Secret Society
*I like that this mission picks up with the members of the League we haven't used yet.  That's a good choice.  It was a fun mission, but it felt the roughest of those we've seen so far.
*I also liked your choice of villains for this map.  I thought they were a nice mixture.
*The fight against Amazo was the highlight, but I feel like he should have been more dangerous.  He was certainly very tough, and when he DID hit someone, he hit hard...but something wasn't quite right in the balance.
*And I think that something was, at least partially, GL.  I feel like he was too tough.  The man with the ring is, after all, just a man.  The ring is pretty amazing stuff, but Hal had a boatload of hitpoints.  So many that I never felt I had to bother with his shield.  Amazo's ranged attacks weren't very powerful, and GL never got in range of his fists...so he wasn't really threatened. 
*Wonder Woman and Flash were both well designed and balanced, though.  I do think Flash could benefit from a charge attack.  That kind of thing helps him be useful in fights against super tough guys like Amazo.
*I like that you worked in the riddle, and I've got to say that it stumped me at first!  Also, I enjoyed Hal's line "I don't see how Batman can stand that guy..."
*The final showdown with Sinestro and Zoom was a bit of a letdown.  Zoom was a somewhat credible threat purely thanks to his speed, but Sinestro never did anything but a flaming punch.  I think this is an AI problem, as I looked at their builds and they seem fine.

All-in-all, this mission has very good elements, but there are pieces missing.

I also tried out the next one, and it was HARD!  Ha, I'll have to take another crack at it later.

Wow! I'm sorry you didn't liked the mission, Benton. Since you barely talked about the plot and the characterization I'll suppose they worked. I'll try to answer some of your points:

Spoiler

-I was convinced this mission had to star Diana, Barry and Hal, since the other 4 members already had their spotlights. I'm glad you liked it.
-I always thought the power rings gave some "extra hit points" to their wearers via "protective aura". Usually I use my old DC Heroes RPG as one of main sources of research and they gave Hal a 4 BODY (resistance to physical damage, the human peak would be 6), but with the ring he got an amazing 12 (the force field was a separate power with a 25 rating). I understand your point and I'll check it if I build another GL anyways.
-Good point about Flash and charge, I'll be sure to add it in a future version.
-Like you saw, Sinestro's hero file is very similar to Hal's, I tried to make the two well balanced, but sometimes the AI gets stuck with 1 or 2 powers and refuses to use the others. I believe it can be fixed only with phyton, but this is beyond my limited knowledge. Sorry.
-I'm glad you liked the Riddler encounter. The riddle was adapted from an actual riddle he used in a 70's Batman comic, I tried to get the right "mood" here.

I hope the next missions are more of your liking.
Thanks for the feedback, it was useful, as always.

I've downloaded it, but I have yet to start playing it, JJ....I'll get to it ASAP.

Dana

Thanks, Dana. I'll be looking forward!

[BentonGrey]

Ha, I was afraid that I had focused too much on the negative there JJ.  It wasn't that I didn't like the mission, it was just one whose flaws were more noticeable.  It was still fun, but it had the potential to be one of your best.  I didn't mention the characterization directly, I suppose, but I did notice it.  I thought everyone sounded right, specifically that one line I mentioned.    Here are some responses to your points:

Spoiler

*Yeah, that was a very good call.
*Well, they do, and it is portrayed in various ways at various times.  Sometimes the rings only kick in to prevent death (usually leaving the Lantern unconscious), at other times they can stop bullets or energy blasts that GL isn't consciously trying to stop.  I would recommend knocking him down one level of endurance.  That way he's still tough, but he'll have to rely on the ring more.
*Cool.
*Yeah...did you run the AI tool?  Other than that, I don't know what else you could do.
*The Riddler is one of my very favorite villains, and I always have a really hard time coming up with riddles.  It's cool that you used one from the comics.  Great work!

And now I've gotten a chance to go through some more missions, so here is some more feedback:

Spoiler

#7 JLA:
*This one was TOUGH!  You certainly throw a lot of Martian soldiers at the player, and that is not necessarily a bad thing.  I tried it the first time with Flash, Aquaman, and Supes, and I certainly got my clock cleaned.  A second play through generated better results, though.
*You've got a pretty straightforward plot here, but it feels like something right out of a period comic.  I love the set up, and the combination of super villains and Martians is a nice touch.  I'd recommend using a few more villains, though, and a few less Martians.  I think that would have added some nice variety.
*There aren't a whole lot of character moments here, but the Riddler's stands out.  I love his reaction to the reveal of the Martian's plan.  The fact that he goes crying to Supes for protection is even better.
*Sinestro's response and dialog was also spot on.  I think he was really a perfect choice for the "boss" of this level.  Of course he'd be willing to destroy Earth to get a shot at the GLC!  He behaved a bit better in this one, but his AI is still being wonky. 
*In terms of builds and balance, things were mostly good.  The Flash can't do much against those guys, and they are fast enough that they can hit him as often as not, but I suppose he's just not the right choice for this mission.
*Aquaman's fast punch is good, when it uses the right animation.  I'd edit his kf's, because about half the time it uses a kick that is slower.  This allows the Martians to tag him when he should be staying on top of them.  Other than that, he's good.  I might give him jump travel to make up for his slower land speed, but that's probably just me being biased. 
*Batman, on the other hand, was a very interesting build.  I'm not sure if you've got the wrong animations selected for him, or if you want him to be able to spew out a whole bunch of batarangs.  He has a three contact animation for his 'rangs, which makes him EXTREMELY powerful against the Martians.  However, he's also very fragile, so you've got to protect him.  I suppose it works out, and it certainly made for an interesting play-through.  I will say that Bats and his arsenal gave me a fighting chance.

This was a good, solid level.  It was really challenging, but it mostly just required the right choice of team and tactics, so that isn't a bad thing.  It is certainly a scary thing to see that horde of white Martians coming at you!

As for the finale level:

Spoiler

#8 I forget the title:
*Now your finale level was certainly epic.  You've got a big battle on the fields of Mars, leading up to a final showdown with Blanx and Bel.  The only problem is that it is murderously difficult.
*Your characterization (especially of Hal) was quite good in this one.  Several of Hal's lines just felt perfect, so great work on that.
*The first encounter was a blast.  It was really challenging to save that fellow, desperately trying to reach him before those Whie Martians could put him down.  I found GL's power ring abilities (summoning, specifically) super helpful.  I also now see why you gave Hal a fire attack!
*After that first encounter, though, the odds are just stacked too high.  The Green Martian general and his zillions of troops just slaughtered me.  I had GL, WW, Flash, and MM.  In the first encounter they were a great team, but without some explosive projectile attacks, I was pretty much just swallowed up by a tide of green.
*The final battle was equally lopsided.  However, the dialog of that final confrontation was great.  I liked the characterizations of the major players.
*I don't know why, exactly, but that final CS with MM talking, ended by that bit of narration....it just warmed my heart a bit.  Anyway, that was a good ending.

For this final mission, you certainly made it big enough in scale, but probably too big.  I'd suggest either giving GL an explosive projectile to help him deal with those massed troops, or perhaps just cutting down on their numbers. 

So, there you have it JJ.  This was a great mod!  I thoroughly enjoyed the adventures portrayed here, and I actually think that your version was a good sight better than the comics version.  It was great, classic feeling Silver Age fun!

[cmdrkoenig67]

Ha...I just realized I did start to play this mod...OMIGAWD, I am so forgetful!  Sorry, JJ...

Dana

[John Jr.]

Thanks for the feedback, Benton. I'm sorry you didn't liked the game balance, but I'm very glad you liked the story and characterization so much. I can't agree about my story being better than the originals, but I'll humbly accept the compliment anyway

Spoiler

About Batman: I always give Bruce a multi Batarang attack, usually piercing damage, but since he knew about the Martian's weakness I think he would be sure to use some fire-based bat-gadgets. Since Bats is the weakest of the heroes and can be felled with 1 or 2 martian punches I thought this weapon would make him useful enough without being overpowered.
I'm glad you liked Hal's characterization, I find him kinda of hard to get right without making him sound like a stereotype.
I'm very happy you liked the final scene too. Thanks for the compliments!

Ha...I just realized I did start to play this mod...OMIGAWD, I am so forgetful!  Sorry, JJ...

Dana

NP, Dana. Just let me know what you think about the mod when you are finished.

[John Jr.]

Since earl of bronze and Benton asked for a tweak in Hal Jordan's hero file I did it.

Spoiler

I uploaded a updated "characters.dat" with a different version of Hal. He has the "Emerald Rocket" power, just like Abin Sur, making him more powerful against the martians. To balance things I reduced his Health a bit. Anyway the battle will be a lot easier with this fix. If you like higher difficult levels just ignore this update.

You can get the update in FRP2, as always, just unzip it in your main  folder or just unzip and replace the "characters.dat" file on the mod for the new one.
http://frp.unlimited2.net/dragons-salamandar-and-some-dats/