The Marvel Thread

[HarryTrotter]

If its James Robinson,then Im not that suprised.I would question why hes the writer of a JLA-like team seeing his track record with the real thing,but there is no point anymore.
I liked Black Knight #1 up until the  point the Uncanny Avengers show up.I dont want to read about them,stop trying to make me.The series isnt even set in Marvel universe.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I know it's probably a bit late to post about this issue, but...

Spoiler

I'm so bummed that they killed off Jack Russell, the Werewolf (one of my favorite characters since childhood), N'Kantu the Living Mummy and the Frankenstein monster in the last issue of Mrs Deadpool and The Howling Commandos.

Dana

[JeyNyce]

If you think about it, you can understand why.....

Spoiler

I think Marvel wants to stay away from the classic monsters and use their own monsters.  Plus isn't there a cartoon coming out with the Howling Commandos Monsters or something???

[daglob]

A couple of those characters a change like that is probably a temporary inconvenience.

[HarryTrotter]

http://comicsalliance.com/super-inhumans-vs-mutants/
Didnt really consider it before,but replacing Mutants with Inhumans has some baaaad implications.Since,you know,X-men symbolised oppresed minorities and Inhumans are a society based on eugenics,with its own slave caste and royal family.And while X-men were strangers who bonded as a family,Inhumans are a real blueblood family.As mutant replacements go,Inhumans were probably the worst option you could go with.

[daglob]

Originally, Stan & Co. used the X-Men to tell tales of racial prejudice and teen angst. I guess those stories just aren't meaningful anymore.

God knows I felt like an X-Man when I was growing up.

[daglob]

New Avengers #3-this story actually makes more sense.Thou the artwork is still wrong.I liked the interaction between Songbird and Hawkeye however short it was.
Vader Down is off to an explosive start,cant wait to see more.
On the Namor cover,its probably just a gimmick.Btw Marvel recently got the rights to Namor back,so I dont see why they would want to kill him?

I wonder if they will bring back Subbie the Sea Lad and explain him? Give them a whole new Namor.

[Talavar]

http://comicsalliance.com/super-inhumans-vs-mutants/
Didnt really consider it before,but replacing Mutants with Inhumans has some baaaad implications.Since,you know,X-men symbolised oppresed minorities and Inhumans are a society based on eugenics,with its own slave caste and royal family.And while X-men were strangers who bonded as a family,Inhumans are a real blueblood family.As mutant replacements go,Inhumans were probably the worst option you could go with.

Very true, though most of these new Inhumans don't have anything to do with the Inhuman society proper and royal family.  It's definitely muddy when you think about the symbolic side of things.

[HarryTrotter]

About the whole Namor issue,I would give it a year max before a different writer brings him back.

[daglob]

About the whole Namor issue,I would give it a year max before a different writer brings him back.

Even with the justification, it smacks of a ploy to increase sales.

[HarryTrotter]

James Robinson killing somebody for shock value?I have never been less suprised.
So Im reading Ultimate Comics: Ultimates.Mostly because Hickman really did a good job there.And while they started as basicly parodies of Avengers,at this point its really hard to tell them apart.Outside some things you couldnt do in main universe(blowing up half of Europe,dissolution of USA)its almost impossible to tell its an alternate universe.So that was my problem,Ultimate became too much like the regular universe,or regular MU became too much like Ultimate universe.

[daglob]

It's been a problem ever since The Watchmen; writers want to deconstruct the super hero, make him gritty and realistic. Have real consequences to their actions.

It's been done.

[HarryTrotter]

It's been a problem ever since The Watchmen; writers want to deconstruct the super hero, make him gritty and realistic. Have real consequences to their actions.

It's been done.

Only it never really stuck in any shared universe.Going by the same logic,arent other Illuminati members also responsible?Namor pulled the trigger,but others arent so innocent either.
Also on the missing list-Thor.Last time we saw him was (IIRC) when he and Hyperion were making a last stand in Time Runs Out.Hyperion survived,so I guess he did too?

[HarryTrotter]

Venom,Space Knight was...well it was Venom in space.It shows some promise.And once again (photorealistic) artwork doesnt really fit the story.
I was going thru the Previews and next year everyone goes to Weirdworld.Seriously almost every title.Thats also next storyline for EXt X-men.Is there going to be a Weirdworld movie?Why is Weirdworld a thing now?

[kkhohoho]

I was going thru the Previews and next year everyone goes to Weirdworld.

Oh, come on! Secret Wars isn't even over yet, is it? And they're already having another giant crossover just a few months after it ends? And you'll probably have to read it to fully understand just what's going on in early every single title, won't you?

Sorry if I'm overreacting, (and I probably am,) but I've actually been wondering if I should start reading modern Marvel and DC again, though between this and severing Namor's head, I"m not sure if it's worth it. I actually started binging through the Marvel backlog for the explicit purpose of catching up to the modern era, but when I actually got there, it turned out to be full of 'earth-shaking', lackluster crossover events at least twice a year, characters coming back and dying again due to contrived reasons, past characterizations being trampled into the ground, some of the books not moving forward when they should, (X-Men, I'm looking at you,) some of the books moving forward in questionable ways (X-Men, still looking at you), needing to read multiple books just to understand what's going on in one single title, etc. And from the look of things, none of this is going to change any time soon, if at all.

Really, I'm wondering if I should just mostly stick to old Marvel comics and maybe the odd standalone new one rather than trying to keep up with most of the current stuff. And it's not like I've already gone through most of the old stuff either; sure, I've got most of Avengers and X-Men covered, but I've still got Spiderman, Defenders, Alpha Flight, and even more to go through. And I think I'd actually be happy with that, if it weren't for me feeling like I'd be still be missing out in some way by just dropping most everything being put out nowadays. (Though I might try Ms.Marvel and Squirrel Girl out. I've heard good things about those two.)

Sorry if it seems like I was rambling, but I just needed to get this off my chest.

[HarryTrotter]

Im not sure if its a crossover is is everyone just going there.For reasons.And yes,everyone is tired of the various events.If you liked Alpha Flight,you probably wont be that happy with their past few years.Xorn kills them in Bendises Avengers,then they come back during Chaos War and get their own miniseries that ties into Fear Itself.
Whats really bothering me,and I know a lot of people will hate me for saying it,are legacy heroes.If you want new heroes,think of some new ones.Passing on the costume is a really cheap gimmick.Which only serves to spark internet arguments.Valiant invents new characters from scratch,DC gives more space to some second stringers,whats stoping Marvel from having similar approach?

[HarryTrotter]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/11/24/the-truth-behind-marvels-next-event-assault-on-pleasant-hill-and-how-its-all-about-captain-americas-75th/
Speaking of next crossover-Avengers Standoff will find the 3 Captains at odds with various Avenger teams picking sides.Heroes fighting heroes in a knockoff of Trinity War--how novel.
I fully expect Squadron Sinister to take control over the universe right after this.And Daredevil to be unmasked on TV so that he can start working as a secret agent in a new series.

[kkhohoho]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/11/24/the-truth-behind-marvels-next-event-assault-on-pleasant-hill-and-how-its-all-about-captain-americas-75th/
Speaking of next crossover-Avengers Standoff will find the 3 Captains at odds with various Avenger teams picking sides.Heroes fighting heroes in a knockoff of Trinity War--how novel.

...

Why. Just. Just... why? I don't care if the Civil War movie's coming up and they want promote it by doing something similar; I don't care if it's Cap's 75th anniversary because there are far better ways to celebrate it than this. There is absolutely no good reason to do this storyline, espically since it's only been three years since the last time they had their heroes go at it. (And less than that if you count AXIS.) Heroes vs heroes is not why I read comics, (even though I don't mind fighting other heroes in fighting games and the like,) and I can't imagine it's why most people read other comics either. And yet, stunts like this draw people in, so they do it. Just... NO.

I think this might have been the last straw for me when it comes to modern Marvel. I'll read a few select series and I'll definitely check out more of their backlog, but when it comes to regularly following their main ongoing series and storylines, I'm done. (For now, anyway.)  Honestly, I feel like a grumpy old man who's fed up with the way comics are going and wants to back to 'the good old days', even though I'm only in my early twenties. I guess that's what I get for starting from the beginning rather than just picking up the current stuff. Give me Claremont's X-Men and Busiek's Avengers over whatever we've got now any day.

[daglob]

Now you know why I miss Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, and even Tony Isabella (private joke).

[HarryTrotter]

I second that.The House of Ideas is pretty much running out of ideas.[Im obliged to say it:check out Valiant,they restored my faith in the future of comics.And are around since 2012,so its not really hard to catch up].
I really think you dont need a crossover in the first 10 issues(like here).Give the writers chance to properly introduce characters before throwing them into an event.
And I agree Kurt Busieks run is the best era of Avengers.Comparing those Avengers and their incarnations in the past 10 years its hard to belive those are the same characters.Expecialy the Scarlet Witch.

[Silver Shocker]

Yeah I read Busiek's Avengers early on when I started reading comics, and I've always held it in high regard (well, that and the original run of Thunderbolts of course ) Haven't reread it in years, been meaning to go back and read Maximum Security and the rest of Busiek's Iron Man.

[daglob]

I've liked Busiek since The Liberty Project...

[kkhohoho]

Im obliged to say it:check out Valiant,they restored my faith in the future of comics.And are around since 2012,so its not really hard to catch up].

Thanks, but as much as I'd like to, I just don't know if I want to right now. It's not because Valiant is bad by means; I did check out a few volumes, and it's good stuff. But going through it, you've still got 8 or so different ongoing series which one should probably read if they want to get the full picture, and I just don't want to be reading a bunch of related titles at once right now. If Valiant was a really small universe with only 2 or 3 titles, I might still be reading it, but that's just not the case. What I want right now is a series -- maybe two or three, like IDW's Transformers line that I've been hearing about -- that stands on it's own without being part of some larger universe. No crossovers, no events, no references to other titles. (With the exception being if there's only a really small number of connected titles, because I'm fine with that.) That's what I really want right now. (Well, aside from stuff from Marvel's backlog, obviously. I'm still going to go through that. But you get the idea.)

[daglob]

There's always The Digital Comics Museum and Comic Book Plus.

[kkhohoho]

There's always The Digital Comics Museum and Comic Book Plus.

Thanks, but reading old Golden Age comics wasn't exactly what I had in mind. (Though that doesn't mean I'm not open to doing it. Free comics is free comics.) I was talking more about reading current ongoing comics, which Marvel and DC just doing aren't that good a job with right now. And there are other options out there, like IDW. I just have to find them.

What gets me down though is that Marvel and DC ever got into such a state that I'd be cutting myself off from most of their current output in the first place, but at the same time, I can't say I didn't see it coming. Most of the elements that brought things to where they are now had always been around in some shape or form, but around 2004 with Avengers Disassembled and Identity Crisis is when it all seemed to finally come together. Both stories featured past characterizations mangled and stomped on, as well as complete disrespect to the teams who are supposed to be the heroes. After that, we got Bendis' Avengers and House of M, and a slew of 'must-read' events began popping up on either side. Meanwhile, the death and resurrection counts continued to increase and get even more contrived, and the status quo of each universe began changing so much so frequently that there was no longer a status quo to change. Spectacles and editorial mandate became the rule of the day, and while there was still good stuff being put out, it was still being hampered by everything else that it all had to be saddled with. So while it's disappointing that things have gotten to where they are now, it's not that hard to see how it got there.

[HarryTrotter]

Well we have different topics for Valiant and Transformers so I leave those for later discussion(fun fact:Identity Crisis didn't happen according to Secret Six,thou Sue Dibney works for Riddler now).
Also,I didn't see Citizen V in the Previews(which go till February).Just bait,I guess?This new universe has been a bit weird for me.Mostly because (I guess) an editor got art duties mixed up.Mark Bagley on New X-men?Thats just a waste.Greg Land...working on comics...
So a few series Im sticking with:Hercules,Illuminati,Deadpool,New Avengers(mostly because of Hawkeye and Songbird),Carnage and Ext X-men(force of habit).
Now looking back at recent years(lets say from Siege to Secret Wars),not everything Marvel published was gold(far from it) but there was still a number of series I enjoyed.Uncanny X-Force,New Warriors,Rick Remmenders Venom,Scarlet Spider,Hickmans Fantastic Four,Hickman's Ultimates,Hickman's Avengers(I sense a pattern here),Secret Avengers,Superior Foes.Its all a matter of calculating does the bad out-weights the good.
Anyone noticed how X-men and Spider-man spinoffs were way better then the main book?

[kkhohoho]

Well we have different topics for Valiant and Transformers so I leave those for later discussion(fun fact:Identity Crisis didn't happen according to Secret Six,thou Sue Dibney works for Riddler now).
Also,I didn't see Citizen V in the Previews(which go till February).Just bait,I guess?This new universe has been a bit weird for me.Mostly because (I guess) an editor got art duties mixed up.Mark Bagley on New X-men?Thats just a waste.Greg Land...working on comics...
So a few series Im sticking with:Hercules,Illuminati,Deadpool,New Avengers(mostly because of Hawkeye and Songbird),Carnage and Ext X-men(force of habit).
Now looking back at recent years(lets say from Siege to Secret Wars),not everything Marvel published was gold(far from it) but there was still a number of series I enjoyed.Uncanny X-Force,New Warriors,Rick Remmenders Venom,Scarlet Spider,Hickmans Fantastic Four,Hickman's Ultimates,Hickman's Avengers(I sense a pattern here),Secret Avengers,Superior Foes.Its all a matter of calculating does the bad out-weights the good.
Anyone noticed how X-men and Spider-man spinoffs were way better then the main book?

Most of those series were good, sure, but I'd actually say that Hickman's Avengers was a low point in the franchise. It wasn't bad persay, but it was rather like Grant Morrison's JLA run, for better or worse. It was all about the plot with little in the way of character development. All of the pieces were there for a good comic, but it had no heart to make it a truly compelling experience. Hickman had it even worse, because with over twenty different Avengers, many of which had their own books, there wasn't a lot of room for them to really develop or interact. It was an unfeeling machine. Technically it worked, but it just didn't have any soul.

[HarryTrotter]

Yeah,it does suffer from too many characters.Some of them do get some more focus in Avengers World,but in just Avengers...I guess he kinda assumes the reader is familiar enough with the established characters.Like-you know who Hawkeye and Spider-man are,so lets rather talk about Hyperion or Starbrand.New characters do actually get focus and development.From the old ones-outside Captain and Iron Man-Thor gets most attention thru his interaction with Hyperion.And you could say Sunspot,Cannonball and Doctor Doom get their moments later.
The real problem of Hickmans Avengers is the aftermath.Seems like nobody knows what to do with the Avengers after this.

[HarryTrotter]

How about we talk about the sales themself?Depending on number 1s and variant cover can only work for so long.Its been done before.It didnt really work out for Marvel.There is also the fact that both Marvel and DC now set prices at 4.99 for some comics. And DC already has financial issues because their number #1 didnt sold that one.
The end is truly near.

[kkhohoho]

How about we talk about the sales themself?Depending on number 1s and variant cover can only work for so long.Its been done before.It didnt really work out for Marvel.There is also the fact that both Marvel and DC now set prices at 4.99 for some comics. And DC already has financial issues because their number #1 didnt sold that one.
The end is truly near.

And that's another thing that's turning me off of modern comics. The prices are getting so high for 5-10 minutes of entertainment that I'm almost resorting to the yohoho method. Imagine if you wanted to pick up just all of the Avengers titles, along with any of the solos featuring characters from those various titles. That's around over $80.00 altogether, and that's just for one month. Now, if you just picked up only the Avengers titles, that's still 25$, which isn't so expensive by comparison, but that's still a decent chunk of money to pay each month, and you're still not getting the complete picture either. And if you wanted to buy all 60 titles that Marvel will eventually be putting out, that would be, say, $299 dollars and 4 cents. It is just too much. Too many titles, too high a price. Whereas you could buy a ticket for a 2 hour long film for $6-$10 bucks if you wanted to.