So. Just reporting the news.
I'm sure we all can practically rank each of the problems any number of us will likely have with this.
But as the title says, JJ Abrams is producing what is being called a Superman reboot with acclaimed author and essayist Ta-nehisi Coates. For those unfamiliar, Coates is social and cultural writer, most notable for his work as a correspondent with the Atlantic, and non-fiction books he's written on race and American culture. He's also had a notable comic run for Black Panther and most recently Captain America.
J.J. Abrams, of course, most of us are well familiar with the work he's done with with Alias, Star Trek, Lost and Star Wars... for better or definitely for worse.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/ta-nehisi-coates-to-write-new-superman-movie-for-warner-bros?x=test1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
I said this already on the discord, but I'm hearing rumors they want to make Superman black... and look, I try to be pro-diversity, but GDI, that character exists already. He's called Icon. Making a black superman instead just feels... wrong as a result, even if there are canon multiverse versions of the character.
One word.
Steel.
Quote from: Tomato on February 27, 2021, 11:19:27 PM
I said this already on the discord, but I'm hearing rumors they want to make Superman black... and look, I try to be pro-diversity, but GDI, that character exists already. He's called Icon. Making a black superman instead just feels... wrong as a result, even if there are canon multiverse versions of the character.
To be fair, there is a character that's already black. Calvin Ellis... which if they do do this, I think that's where they'll go.
And to be even more fairer, a movie about a Black(and Latino) Spiderman was nominated for an Oscar and one of our favorite shows features a Black Green Lantern. So I don't want to say out the gate this will be bad.
But if my profile pic isn't a tell of how I feel in relation to your opinion, then let it be known, as a Black man, we have a WEALTH of our stories I'd love to see told before this one that only nerds like us would know. Icon has darn near a 30 year history, he's been in RECENT animated history. His story is as authentically "cultured" as you can get and even given the dynamics of the character, I think it'd play VERY well being topical today.
But that's talking about a Icon movie. This will be a "Superman" movie. As for what kind of "Superman".... who knows.
I get that. My issue is... I'm having a hard time articulating it tbh. Like, there's a fundamental difference between a Superman who happens to be black, but is treated like Superman, and how Icon is most often depicted as being treated purely because he doesn't look white. Having that isn't bad in and of itself... I think we do need a source of optimism that says "you can be a superhero and not be persecuted." But... well, not going too deep into politics, but that's not the reality we're forced to live in.
I'm not saying I don't think a non-white actor would be great in the role. Regardless of how he is as a human being, Dean Cain is probably my favorite LOOKING Superman actor, if only because he isn't just another white dude. Superman is a flippin alien, I think there's absolutely room for diversity in terms of the actor chosen. But if there was ever a time where a mirror needs to be held up to people that says "if a hero came to earth and looked like a black man, THIS is how he'd be treated by YOU" I feel like we're kinda there. And doing a black Superman, be it Calvin Ellis, Val Zod, or Clark Kent, just waters down the pull for that sort of story to be told.
Also... look, like it or not, it's being directed by JJ Abrams, my level of hope isn't high regardless.
Hey, they're saying Micheal B. Jordan would play him. And
MJB, MBJ's an awesome actor....when he's not in Fan4stic, and Fan4stic was clearly not in any way his fault.
Guy's been in multiple movies (3 of which I actually watched :P ) about what it's like to be a young black man in modern America and those movies were really well received (and I really liked them too)
QuoteAlso... look, like it or not, it's being directed by JJ Abrams, my level of hope isn't high regardless.
Yeaaaah, and it's also being done by modern DC/WB, so there's a lot of ways for it turn out to not be very good.
I'm not even entirely convinced Suicide Squad by James Gunn will arrive unscathed.
If this wasn't a movie, I like to think there would be less reason to be concerned with execution.
It's funny, around 2013 or so, when Dark Knight Rises had wrapped up, my father said to me "I don't understand why they can't make Superman as successful these days as Batman." And I didn't have a concrete answer for him.
It kinda feels like they're starting to make up for lost time.
A Superman reboot by a competent team would be great. This doesn't sound like it's going to be that. Lots of good points about the racial angle. I would actually love to see a Steel movie (a good one, ha!) or an Icon movie. Heck, a movie about a Black hero who succeeds by the strength of his mind and heart instead of alien physiology, that sounds like a really positive message for our day. But the idea of a movie exploring the themes surrounding Icon could also be quite timely. Sadly, I don't see much here to be sanguine about.
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 28, 2021, 07:30:42 PM
a Steel movie (a good one, ha!)
What do you mean? There was
never a Steel movie. Doesn't exist, never happened. It was all just a bad dream perhaps due to maybe an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato.
I have said elsewhere that as unabashed a Superman fan as I am, I wouldn't mind if a movie was done with a Superman of color.
IF they do the core of the character right. I would just say that it's another Superman in the Multiverse.
But like 'Mato has said, I think this is passing up the opportunity to throw Icon into the spotlight. Yes, he doesn't have the 'name' draw that saying 'Black Superman' will get, but consider this. Go back 13 or so years ago, when they announced an Iron Man film. No one, outside of comic book fandom, had really heard of Iron Man. They took a chance on a second-tier superhero. ( Sorry Iron Fans, but he really wasn't that popular. ) They took a chance and it paid off, it paid off big time! Entire theaters cheered at the statement " I am Iron Man! " Iron Man became the cornerstone of the MCU and they expanded that out into a huge film franchise. And by Endgame, we went from cheering to weeping like children at the phrase "And... I... am... Iron Man!"
Now, imagine if Icon could become that cornerstone for the Milestone universe. They could test the water some more with another hero like 'Xombi' or 'Hardware' and if that goes well, they'll be willing to try a more known character.... say, 'Static'? (I wanna see a Static movie! ) This is following the way Marvel did, by slowly introducing lesser known characters, easing into someone with a more known name.
Plus Icon as a character opens up a few things that Superman can't do. Icon has a much longer lifespan then Superman, having arrived and lived on this planet for nearly a century. That is ALOT of story that can be mined. Think of all the changes he has lived through, the advancements both scientifically and socially he has seen. You can't do that with Superman.
But at the end of the day, it's the decision of those in the High Tower of HollyWeird. If they make a Superman movie, I hope it does good. I am neutral about Abrams at the helm (I liked the Abramsverse ST trilogy, I just see it as they said, 'An alternate timeline.). But I just dread that the first time Supes uses his heat vision, we'll all be blinded with a five minute long lens flare.
QuoteNo one, outside of comic book fandom, had really heard of Iron Man.
Fun fact, when I saw the 90's Spider-Man cartoon, I didn't know who Iron Man or Tony Stark were. So when we see Stark, with Rhodey as his bodyguard, followed by "The name's War Machine" and Tony putting the helmet on and flying off, it totally worked for me as a double reveal that would have taken more for granted by fans familiar with the characters.
Spidey: Hey, that belongs to Stark Technologies!
Iron Man: If Tony Stark has a problem, he can take it up with me!
Quoteand if that goes well, they'll be willing to try a more known character.... say, 'Static'? (I wanna see a Static movie! )
They've been talking about making a Static movie for quite some time, actually.
QuoteI would actually love to see a Steel movie (a good one, ha!) or an Icon movie. Heck, a movie about a Black hero who succeeds by the strength of his mind and heart instead of alien physiology, that sounds like a really positive message for our day.
Here's what I'd do. I'm still operating on the idea that it being part of a shared universe making it less "skippable" (yes, I know, first stage is admitting you have a problem) and so we have a working class John Henry Irons, raising his daughter Natasha, in Metropolis during the you-know-what. Not handsome rich white billionaire Bruce Wayne this time, a real down-to-earth working class guy in the city who works at a steel mill, and maybe he gets injured or something and jeopardizes his livelihood (you don't have to show the destruction - we know what it looked like - you can show it for like 1-and-a-half seconds and just talk about it like Zemo's family or some such)
He's trying to do physical recap, trying to get a loan from the bank -- totally writes itself. Make him a Black DC equivalent to Ant-Man (not in the bumbling heist sense of course - in the "well meaning working class guy trying to do right by his daughter" sense.
I think it has potential.
Quote from: Night Dragon on February 28, 2021, 08:47:05 PMGo back 13 or so years ago, when they announced an Iron Man film. No one, outside of comic book fandom, had really heard of Iron Man. They took a chance on a second-tier superhero. ( Sorry Iron Fans, but he really wasn't that popular. )
I would argue against this point. Though I will grant that the '66 animated series is largely forgotten, he's had several appearances in media between then & 2008.
He makes appearances in both Spider-Man and Spidey & His Amazing Friends in the early 80's.
He had his own series, as well as made cameos in 4 others, in the mid-to-late 90's.
He had an appearance in the '07 Fan 4 series. (I will grant this could be argued as "product placement" in the lead-up to his movie)
There were Iron Man references in The Simpsons (1999), Seinfeld (1997), and Bio-Dome (1996). (granted, that last one is a dubious credit, but I doubt it would have made the script if they thought it was too obscure)
And that's just from what I could find quickly or remember. I would hardly consider that to be unknown, second-tier, or unpopular.
(I didn't include any direct-to-video or video game appearances, as those are primarily aimed at us comic nerds)
the popular Captain America and the Avengers arcade game too.
(yeah I know you said not video games, but that was one of those cabinet games that everyone knew they were stacking quarters on ;) )
So, just a minor point, but I imagine the Black Sabbath song by itself did a lot to keep the character in the zeitgeist, despite the lack of actual connection.
That being said, I like the idea you describe, ND!