As a tie-in to the release of the 'JL - Synder's Cut', DC/HBOMax is offering THIS (https://wonderland-at-home.myshopify.com/).
Okay, food and movie tie-ins are nothing new. (I remember the monster burger McDonald had for the Hercules animated film) But this is freaky. Not only is it130+ dollars, you prepare the the dishes at home. Apparently you get a few collector items, like a chaffing dish, a burger box, some drink light(?), and the crate it come too.
I will admit, when I saw the 'Element X' drink, the first thing I thought was 'Energy X'. Man, Irrational could have totally had a gold mine if they had made their own energy drink. They was ahead of their time, I'm afraid.
I'm iffy about the Synder Cut. I'm just not fond of the man's direction for heroes. It seems like he wants to make 'Destruction Porn', basically. (I had a mini-rant in my post in the Polls forum. ) And as much as I like Superman, okay LOVE Superman, I have never purchased the JL movie. I only bought BvS after a friend showed me the 'Ultimate' version... and it was... MEH. (Plus I caught it on sale for like $10, I'll pay 10 for Meh.) But that still isn't Lex Luthor, dangit! It could have been a whole new villain! Hell, they could have made it be Glorious Godfrey, and it would have worked so much better! And it would have tied into the Motherbox thread in JL! (Sorry, I'm ranting again.)
Anywhosit, is anyone planning to order this 'feast'?
Well, that is something different. :mellow:
QuoteBut that still isn't Lex Luthor, dangit! It could have been a whole new villain! Hell, they could have made it be Glorious Godfrey, and it would have worked so much better! And it would have tied into the Motherbox thread in JL! (Sorry, I'm ranting again.)
That's a good point, never thought of that. Of course, they probably just wanted to exploit the hype out of one of the most famous Superman villains (it'd be nice if one of the movies actually utilized the qualities that make him an all-time great villain though, but oh well)
QuoteI have never purchased the JL movie. I only bought BvS after a friend showed me the 'Ultimate' version... and it was... MEH. (Plus I caught it on sale for like $10, I'll pay 10 for Meh.)
Yeah, the only DCEU movie I wanted to buy on disc was Shazam.
Now, if The Suicide Squad pulls it off...
Quote(I remember the monster burger McDonald had for the Hercules animated film)
I thought it could have been a cool promotion if McDonalds referenced Rick & Morty by bringing back the Szechuan McNugget dipping sauce in time for the Mulan remake, but after the R&M fanbase made utter fools of themselves over that meme, I can't blame them for not doing it again by the time the film came out.
QuoteMan, Irrational could have totally had a gold mine if they had made their own energy drink. They was ahead of their time, I'm afraid.
Now you got me wondering what a Freedom Force movie or tv adaptation would be like. Even if it was animated.
QuoteAnywhosit, is anyone planning to order this 'feast'?
I know I won't be. It's certainly unique and interesting, and it's kinda cool that a "Big Belly Burger" exists as a real product, as well as Chocos (Jalapeno and cheese cookies? You have my curiosity), but yeah, it's far too pricey for what is basically just a novelty, even if you get to keep some little collectibles. I'd rather spend that on a game or some comics or an action figure or something.
Props to them for coming up with an unique and interesting way to promote their product though.
Energy drink would have fit Jared Leto's Joker better though. ^_^
To be fair to McDonald's...there was that [unspecified virus of unknown origin] going on and Mulan came out on a streaming service. To mixed reviews and several controversies...
Anyway,in-universe brands would be an okay promotion if you could just buy a can of Buzz Cola or something. Whole package is kind of an overkill.
So if anyone follows Comic Drake's channel, I may have sent him some money so he could buy the thing, rather than have to buy it myself.
QuoteI may have sent him some money so he could buy the thing, rather than have to buy it myself.
"May have" meaning you're not sure if you did or not, or you're just being jokey? Also, were you hoping he'd tell you if it's any good?
Also I think that might count as you putting money towards the Snyder Cut?
Oh, I absolutely did. He was gonna do it at 60,000 views to cover the cost, but the video slowed down around 25,000. Figured I'd just pay him directly to help cover it so he could do the video.
https://twitter.com/TrailerDrake/status/1357572196609228802?s=19
As for giving money towards the snyder cut... Ehhh? Like, in a roundabout way maybe, but probably still less than I've already paid by buying justice league figures for customs and such. Besides, I have less of a moral issue here, and more of a "I don't want to watch because the movie looks dumb". I'll absolutely give my money to a youtuber I enjoy so he can make an entertaining video eating this monstrosity.
'May have' could also be...
I "may have" been drinking the neck and shoulders off a bottle of Everclear, and I "may have" went an online shopping bender. Now if you'll excuse me I have a few thousand Silly Bandz to deal with.
Quote from: Night Dragon on February 12, 2021, 12:27:25 AM
'May have' could also be...
went an online shopping bender.
And that's a good reason enough for me to not get drunk. I'd probably wake up up the next day and be like "Why did I just have $300 worth of Marvel Legends and Transformers figures mailed to me?"
Quote from: Silver Shocker on February 12, 2021, 03:34:59 AM
Quote from: Night Dragon on February 12, 2021, 12:27:25 AM
'May have' could also be...
went an online shopping bender.
And that's a good reason enough for me to not get drunk. I'd probably wake up up the next day and be like "Why did I just have $300 worth of Marvel Legends and Transformers figures mailed to me?"
And thats why I own an Endless Waltz version TallGeease. 🥁 🥁
Quote from: Night Dragon on February 10, 2021, 11:16:41 PM
I will admit, when I saw the 'Element X' drink, the first thing I thought was 'Energy X'. Man, Irrational could have totally had a gold mine if they had made their own energy drink. They was ahead of their time, I'm afraid.
Look out, everyone. I think this might be part of Lord Dominion's new plan to send Energy X to the most annoying of humanity: Zack Snyder's fanbase.
Also, since Irrational (or "Ghost Story Games" as they're called now) seems to do little more than sell merchandise for their old games, I don't see why they couldn't make an Energy X energy drink.
Quote from: SuperPoweredYank on February 12, 2021, 03:53:36 PM
Also, since Irrational (or "Ghost Story Games" as they're called now) seems to do little more than sell merchandise for their old games,
Ohhhh ohhhhh, does that mean I can finally get my own plushie Brain-in-a-jar???
What? Don't judge me! :P
Quote from: HarryTrotter on February 12, 2021, 12:13:29 PM
Quote from: Silver Shocker on February 12, 2021, 03:34:59 AM
Quote from: Night Dragon on February 12, 2021, 12:27:25 AM
'May have' could also be...
went an online shopping bender.
And that's a good reason enough for me to not get drunk. I'd probably wake up up the next day and be like "Why did I just have $300 worth of Marvel Legends and Transformers figures mailed to me?"
And thats why I own an Endless Waltz version TallGeease. 🥁 🥁
I think I own that one! It was either that or one that showed up near the end of the show.
I also had the update of HeavyArms. The Gundam Wing figures were actually really nice. Fully articulated, you can take the limbs off and put em back on and mix and match, good stuff. ^_^
Well,there is a trailer now. I think they polished the cgi a bit,thats nice.
That is actually the 2nd trailer for the Snyder Cut, and I have actually a few things to say about it
-Jared Leto's Joker appearing in the movie for a mulligan, with Snyder outright admitting he was never originally going to be in the movie, and he just wanted to do him in a future film. And he has a new look, with long hair, no tattoos, and a somewhat different voice. And of particular note, the one scene we get in the trailer gives the impression Batman will team up with the Joker...which, I'll give them all the credit for this, we've never seen Batman team up with the Joker in a live action movie, so that's fresh, new territory for movie world.
-In addition to a radically different (and better) design and CGI for Steppenwolf, he also has a radically different voice. I'm still eagerly awaiting finding out what Darkseid's voice will sound like. I'm assuming it will, like Snyder Cut Steppenwolf, be heavily digital altered, because the audio clip we heard of the actor doing the voice a year or two ago sounded terrible IMO.
-A proper appearance for Darkseid, complete with Desaad (who now looks like a member of the Black Order - apparently looking like an Emperor Palpatine knockoff wasn't scary or alien enough I guess) and....a comic-accurate Granny Goodness?!!!
-Cyborg with a gosh-darn minigun on his shoulder ala War Machine?! I have nothing else to add, I just think that's cool.
-The trailer confirmed that Henry Allen is in the Snyder Cut, as is the "Wonder Woman saves London" sequence (the little girl from the trailer can also be seen briefly in the 2017 cut version of the scene). This makes me happy as that's probably the single best scene in the entire film, and I can only assume the WW action scenes in the JSA animated movie trailer are directly based on it. I had the 2017 cut on this weekend because they aired it on tv again - I don't hate it, it may or may not end up being superior to the Snyder Cut depending on how far they lean into the Netflix Transformers "so self-serious it's not very fun" angle.
All that said, I'm going to both laugh AND cry if this thing comes out and gets a direct sequel, and that sequel is basically a live action version of Apocalypse War, bringing in the Suicide Squad, Shazam and the Birds of Prey. Which I wouldn't put past them.
Also "We live in a society..."
Quote from: HarryTrotter on February 15, 2021, 12:59:58 PM
Also "We live in a society..."
Still in disbelief that line was used in official DC material.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/417/688/764.jpg)
Well, on the nose as that might have been:
1) Ascended memes making it into nerd properties is a long-running tradition, be it Samuel L's famous line in Snakes on a Plane, Fast and the Furious referencing #JusticeForHan even though it makes no sense in context, Matt the Radar Technician being made canon in a Star Wars comic, any number of things in anime and anime dubs, and indeed stuff in the superhero genre. And that includes memes that have baggage attached to them.
2) They also referenced this meme in the Todd Phillips/Joaquin Phoenix Joker. And it's especially common for official works to reference memes that were derived from or already featured in the official content in the first place.
3) I've heard people say "I cannot believe they 'unironically' used [that line]" And my thought is always "It's the Joker. Why do you think it was 'unironic'?"
4) If that's Ross from Friends as the Joker, that's one of the most unsettling things I've ever seen in my life.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on February 16, 2021, 04:47:17 AM
4) If that's Ross from Friends as the Joker, that's one of the most unsettling things I've ever seen in my life.
It is.
Harley : Puddin' why ain'tcha fought Bats in a while?
Joker : We were on a Break!
(And yes, I know Harley isn't with Joker, but I'm not using that crappy half-baked Punchline.)
Quote from: Silver Shocker on February 16, 2021, 04:47:17 AM
3) I've heard people say "I cannot believe they 'unironically' used [that line]" And my thought is always "It's the Joker. Why do you think it was 'unironic'?"
It's Zack Snyder, so it's probably supposed to be taken dead seriously. Pretty sure the context is that it's during a nightmare, given Bats' outfit is the one he wore in the nightmare scene in Batman V Superman.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on February 16, 2021, 04:47:17 AM
4) If that's Ross from Friends as the Joker, that's one of the most unsettling things I've ever seen in my life.
Yeah, it really do be like that sometimes.
But did Snyder cut the trailer? Because I know sometimes the people who cut the trailers are not the people making the flicks and don't even like how the trailers were cut (Star Trek Beyond, Terminator Genesis, Bridesmaids, Ghostbusters 2016) and sometimes trailers have lines that are not in the movie or not even intended to be in the movie (Deadpool's trailers, for example). Was it Whedon's or Snyder's idea for Cyborg to say "Booyah?"
I feel like any snappy one liners like that were Whedon. Snyder's JL is brooding, grown up, edgy, and violent, with no room for any such frivolities.
It's frustrating because from what I've heard, Snyder is actually a decent human being... Respects his actors, doesn't bully people, etc. But the few bits I actually like in JL are almost certainly Whedon, and he is kind of a toolbag.
I feel like you really need to have "grown-up" in scare quotes, 'Mato. ;)
Fair, but I was more speaking to how Snyder sees the League, not the result (which is dour, edge lord garbage that thinks it's deeper than it is and has the general maturity of a 13 year old boy).
Personally, I have 0 problems with Snyder, and I don't mind supporting the film... I just also don't want to see it because it looks terrible.
Quote from: Tomato on February 18, 2021, 04:10:10 PM
I feel like any snappy one liners like that were Whedon.
That's something of a running gag in s2 of The Boys.
QuoteThat's something of a running gag in s2 of The Boys.
Comparing the works of Garth Ennis vs Zach Snyder....now that's Sophie's Choice right there (yeah, I'm not a fan. I've heard people like the show; not my thing)
I kinda feel like anyone who makes fun of the Marvel movie's humor in their work would probably come off like they've got a grip of sour grapes. :P
Anywho...
QuoteI feel like any snappy one liners like that were Whedon.
Actually, I have to make a correction. I posed the question of who's idea "Booyah" was, but I forgot that based on the leaks I've heard about, that scene almost certainly was Whedon. Oh well. The point that it's a forced reference to a drastically different iteration of the character (and arguably a better one, for that matter) still stands.
QuoteIt's frustrating because from what I've heard, Snyder is actually a decent human being... Respects his actors, doesn't bully people, etc. But the few bits I actually like in JL are almost certainly Whedon, and he is kind of a toolbag.
I haven't heard as much about Snyder, but I will say, while I respect him as a filmmaker (respect doesn't necessarily mean I agree with his choices - I still really like the Watchmen movie, but it has is shortcomings - and there's pretty much all movie-exclusive changes) I find him absolutely obnoxious when he talks in an interview and states his case. "Livin' in a dream world" and all that.
What drew him to Watchmen (this was in the same interview as the infamous Batman quote) was that in most superhero stories, noone was screwing or killing each other. How very shallow, and NOT what Watchmen is about. Thank goodness for David Hayter's script and Zach/WB mostly sticking to the comic's plot and beat-to-beat moments.
Where was I going with this? Oh right.
QuoteSnyder's JL is brooding, grown up, edgy, and violent, with no room for any such frivolities.
I am curious about the final product, after all these years, for a few reasons. But in particular I want to see how Flash and Aquaman come off. The jury's out on whether Aquaman was supposed to be the frat-boy dudebro in Snyder's version, but we all know most of Barry's most memorable jokes were pure Whedon, and one of the ways I know this is Snyder outright admitted ("League of our own" was also Whedon, by the way, and you can tell - and ONLY that part of the scene)
Now, Barry. Here's the thing. On the one hand, having a comedic foil to balance out the other characters makes sense (I think I mentioned this when people called him a ripoff of Tom's Spidey) and it also helps distinguish him from Grant's version, but now that I know the Henry Allen scene is in there, well, that's not a comedic moment, but in the moment-to-moment, Barry still feels consistent as a character. Either that or Ezra Miller is just making it seem like he is.
Now, the Wonder Woman scene - I'm assuming that was at least partially a Snyder scene because new footage of the little girl is featured in the first Snyder Cut trailer. Beyond that.....eh. On the one hand, Roose Bolton from GoT and his gang of radical terrorists are portrayed as nihilistic monsters and the crowd is screaming in panic and terror (one could compare to the civilians from Raimi's Spider-Man, Whedon's own "Avengers" and even Nolan's The Dark Knight - there's a hero inside of all of us, after all ^_^ ) but on the other hand, WW is portrayed as heroic and optimistic in that scene "Who are you?" "A believer." On the other other hand (Oh no,
three hands!) The actual WW movie came out, so they might have been going for consistency by that point, on the
fourth hand, WW's most unflattering moment in the film is when she shoves Bruce for mentioning Steve Trevor, a moment I would assume was Snyder.
But it could have far worse. Snyder once promoted Wonder Woman with an image of WW carrying a collection of
severed human heads. Now, I know because of Lex's line that they didn't just splice in two sets of scenes, they spliced in moment-to-moment LINES into individual scenes, so, for example, the scene where Bruce could go to see Barry could be largely the same minus the bit about brunch, and the bush league continuity error about Vic becoming Cyborg AFTER Supes died appears to have been, you guessed it, ADR dubbed into a wide shot in the Batcave.
And let's not not get even started on them retconning Superman to have actually acted like Superman
before he died.
Also, Batman jobs like a champ whenever superpowered beings show up in this universe. I don't need him to be the Bat-God, but he's pretty useless unless he's got the Batmobile. And you can already tell from the Snyder cut trailers that if nothing else, he's going to have a slightly better go at it.
Now as for "with no room for any such frivolities.". That's not entirely true. It's
close, but not quite. Perry White and Alfred both get a few good jabs. Mind you, they're incredibly cynical jabs ("Crime wave in Gotham. In other news, water....wet" "Noone cares about Clark Kent taking on The Batman" "I hope the next generation of Waynes doesn't inherit an empty wine cellar. Not that there's likely to be any") but they're in there.
In the case of the Booyah, it only half works (I personally was hoping for an "Outrageous" from Aquaman, which WOULD have worked) in the exact same vein as Paramount Shredder saying "Tonight I dine on turtle soup" because it's not particularly in character for this version of Vic to even say that. If nothing else, the Snyder Cut is guaranteed to make Vic an actual
character, because almost his entire plot was scrubbed out of the Whedon Cut. Mind you, if you want to see that plot done
well, it's called Doom Patrol S1.....and the original comics......and Young Justice: Outsiders arguably did it better as well.
Quote(which is dour, edge lord garbage that thinks it's deeper than it is and has the general maturity of a 13 year old boy).
Personally, I have 0 problems with Snyder, and I don't mind supporting the film... I just also don't want to see it because it looks terrible.
The sad thing is, I get what he's going for. This isn't one of those "you just don't get it" things - nah G, we get it, it's just not very good. He's leaning hard into the "modern gods" angle, which, of course, Grant Morrison did better in the comics. And you can get Green Arrow going "Bull, the world NEEDS THE JUSTICE LEAGUE" in JLU. And Lex....yeah, pretty much EVERYONE outside the live action movies did Lex better.
And yet, Darkseid, Jared Leto's Joker not being an energy drink come to life, no CGI Superman face, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, Slade Wilson, the bad guys teaming up, Joker teaming up with Batman, there's a whole lot of "this should be a LOT better" in this movie.
Can you imagine what a GOOD Justice League movie could be like? Imagine if they did something like Morrison's WWIII, where the finale features the entire population of Earth temporarily getting superpowers to fight the giant space threat, or the league fighting a comics-accurate Amazo? Would be real cool.
Not really a comparison,Josh Whedon reshooting "Dawn of The Seven" is something that actually happens in S2.
The show is very different from the comic. And thats an improvement. It might be a shallow satire of celebrity culture and superhero movie,but at least it has SOMETHING to say. Unlike the source material.
So has anyone else watched this? Cyborg and Flash are really fleshed out and are kind of the stars of the show. There is a lot of nonsensical stuff, of course, and I feel like the movie is way longer than 4 hours.... perhaps all the slo-mo and cinematography just draws everything out longer.
It is better than the theatrical cut, but still is outshone by wonder Woman, Shazam, Aquaman, and Birds of Prey when it comes to DC movies in my opinion.
Possibly outshined by Aquaman. I still refuse to see it. But otherwise I agree. I posted my full impressions on the other DCEU thread. But overall, I didn't mind it much. I really don't understand why people are raving over it when it was largely the same movie. Yes some scenes are changed and some are fleshed out so it's much more coherent because of that. But a lot of the issues I had with the previous one I have with this, which is reflected in many of the issues I have with the DCEU overall. Joss Whedon was dedicated to doing something different but Snyder wanted his version and tonally its much like his other DCEU movies. If that's your thing.
I was planning to watch it by now, but I ran out of time and I had to go over my options. Because Canada gets screwed over on HBO Max content, it looks like my best option is going to be signing up for Crave, a Canadian steaming service that has no right to exist (it exists purely of stuff that isn't split up this way in the U.S.). I promised myself I'd never sign up for that, but it costs considerably less than HBO Max would with a VPN (which I also pay for), but right now it's my best option and I got to get this thing watched as soon as I can because the internet is spoiling the holy hell out of it, something I knew full well they'd do. The fact that it's 4 hours doesn't help either.
If nothing else, Crave will also get Godzilla vs Kong at the end of the month, so that's something.
It does make me interested in where DC movies go from here. There is a lot of setup here.
In an interview Snyder was asked why he was going to do as a movie that sets up later movies when those later movies might not get made at all. His answer was a very straightforward "They wanted my vision. This is my vision."
That being said there were stuff that wasn't originally going to be in the 2017 version of that one specific movie.
Spoiler
1. The whole of the Knightmare sequence in this is a new creation, which as I understand it serves to A. Make up for Snyder never getting to make a whole movie of this, which he wanted to (though I joked that this thing basically is Apocalypse War; based on what I know about this thing, it kinda is)
B. Justify more Slade Wilson and Jared Leto Joker
C. Deliver on some Darkseid.
2. Martian Manhunter going to see Batman at the end is a change - originally it was going to be Kilowog and Tomar Re, setting up some more Green Lantern.
Also Snyder wanted to bring in Ryan Reynolds at some future point to play a different Green Lantern - how nifty.
Also Crave is offering, for a limited time, 50% off on a 3 month plan. That could be worth getting for my option to see the Snyder Cut.
So I haven't seen the whole thing (I easily could, but I have no desire to) but some friends of mine did and they showed me some clips from the beginning and from the final fight. I was not impressed. Neither of them are huge comic fans, but they both hated it for other reasons. One of them went into this not having seen the original (it's why she wanted to watch this one, to be "unbiased") and she said "it's worse than Dragonball Evolution"
-So one of their big complaints was about the whole scene with the Amazons and Steppenwolf. In the first part of the scene, Amazons are being smacked into stone walls, smashing stone pillars, whatever. Then, during the chase, one of the Amazons (I believe Hypolita's bodyguard) has a horse fall on their shins, and dies. The scene lingers on them supposedly dying. There's no evidence they cracked their head open (and it's not like Snyder shied away from blood elsewhere) they just die from having a horse on their legs. Somehow.
-They complained extensively on how Steppenwolf looks. It's bad, he's jarring in every scene I saw (he's so shiny) and the lighting on him is just terrible. Like, he's somehow backlit by a sort of purple lighting constantly, but there's no purple light ever.
-The graphics in general are not polished. They're technically better than what we had a few decades ago, but a few shots looked more like video game graphics than anything really there. I honestly think things would have benefited from cutting it down by an hour or two and focusing their efforts.
Lastly, one that's more or a spoiler, but it's addressing something SS just brought up.
Spoiler
-They pointed out the MM scenes as being jarring... the first because there's no reason for him to change back to MM form for the camera before changing to the general, the second because it was like "why *didn't* you help, you live here". Knowing that it was supposed to be the GLs and was randomly changed to MM because Snyder just wanted it I guess, makes it kinda worse.
That all being said, I will agree that in what little I saw, it's "better" if only because it has more character stuff and the final fight actually has things for other characters to do. But there's still plenty of Snyder-isms (like a hero exploding a dude in front of school children and then being like "yes, I'm someone to look up to") so I really don't want to see the whole thing.
Quote from: HarryTrotter on March 21, 2021, 05:39:56 AM
It does make me interested in where DC movies go from here. There is a lot of setup here.
Definitely agree with this. But the unfortunate thing is it's hard to see them greenlignting something more. I for one would have already loved to see a Batfleck movie and this REALLY made me want to see it even more. Plus what they were doing with the main characters(antagonist and protagonist) I really want to see more with them. But again, after the theatrical release will they want to do more? That's the question.
I've heard good things. I might get it fired up Monday night, and when I do see it, I expect I'll have a more positive appraisal of it than others here.
QuoteLastly, one that's more or a spoiler, but it's addressing something SS just brought up.
Spoiler
-They pointed out the MM scenes as being jarring... the first because there's no reason for him to change back to MM form for the camera before changing to the general, the second because it was like "why *didn't* you help, you live here". Knowing that it was supposed to be the GLs and was randomly changed to MM because Snyder just wanted it I guess, makes it kinda worse.
As I mentioned about a month or so ago, that was not planned, and apparently it shows. Unfortunate, but not particularly surprising. Shame, because as I'm sure I'm made clear in the past, I'm a big fan of that particular character.
QuoteBut there's still plenty of Snyder-isms (like a hero exploding a dude in front of school children and then being like "yes, I'm someone to look up to") so I really don't want to see the whole thing.
I went ahead and checked that scene on Youtube, then checked it extra, and here's how it looked to me. I also would have preferred to not have that sequence spoiled.
Spoiler
It looks very clear to me that Roose Bolton was about to fire an explosive round into the crowd and WW blocked it, and that got edited down.
Also the girl says "Can I be like you sometime?" and WW's answer was "Don't take magically enslaved men for joyrides. It's not nice. You can be anyone you want to be." Which is....a pretty good answer that leaves the door open to "Don't throw terrorists head first into walls if you don't want to. I'll do it for you." :P
Oh, almost forgot. Jared Leto said in an interview he ad-libbed the "We live in a society" line.
In my defense, I was trying to obfuscate who I was talking about and the context of it, I just clearly didn't obfuscate it enough. It's also just ONE example of the level of violence in this movie.
Spoiler
My understanding (again, this is what I've gathered from others) she also murders a few other people in that scene, not just him. All of this in front of the kids, who aren't at all traumatized by a bad guy being turned to jello. I've also seen it pointed out as being particularly jarring because that scene was in the OG cut, except without the gratuitous violence. But Snyder HAD to Snyder that scene up because it's "cooler" or whatever.
I don't have a specific problem with Superheroes killing per se (though I think context matters) but this movie just delights in the random blood and gore, even in places it shouldn't be. Because Snyder has to Snyder all over everything.
Quote from: Tomato on March 22, 2021, 01:51:11 PM
In my defense, I was trying to obfuscate who I was talking about and the context of it, I just clearly didn't obfuscate it enough. It's also just ONE example of the level of violence in this movie.
Spoiler
My understanding (again, this is what I've gathered from others) she also murders a few other people in that scene, not just him. All of this in front of the kids, who aren't at all traumatized by a bad guy being turned to jello. I've also seen it pointed out as being particularly jarring because that scene was in the OG cut, except without the gratuitous violence. But Snyder HAD to Snyder that scene up because it's "cooler" or whatever.
I don't have a specific problem with Superheroes killing per se (though I think context matters) but this movie just delights in the random blood and gore, even in places it shouldn't be. Because Snyder has to Snyder all over everything.
Context is also why I don't have a problem with this scene except on a conceptual level.
Spoiler
Snyder said well over a year ago the Russian family weren't in his movie, so I wasn't exactly Spring-Heeled Jack to (correctly) leap to the conclusion.
The terrorists are much more trigger-happy and it takes WW a lot more effort to beat them. The one guy other than Roose she definitely kills (head-wound guy), she only does that because she hit him while he was shooting at her and then he was about to fly
right into the hostages.QuoteAll of this in front of the kids, who aren't at all traumatized by a bad guy being turned to jello.
There is no jello. There is no blood or gore in this scene other than head-wound guy. Not saying the rest of the movie doesn't go crazy on the violence - I know it does, and I'll see it in time - but this part is very much the equivalent of the warehouse fight.
An entry on Tvtropes claims WW disintegrated Roose with a shockwave, but there is a massive explosion as the wall gets blown out. I suppose it's open to debate, but doesn't seem to make sense to me if she does. Roose is no threat to her at this point. One could just say "because Snyder" but WW is very tactical and efficient during this sequence up to this point.
Many of the children are looking away or covering their face when it happens, so they never saw that, and there is no trace of Roose. There is also a lot of dust particles in the air from debris, which may have obscured the view. As for traumatized, it certainly looked to me like they were. This whole sequence is cut out of some YT clips, likely due to trimming down the footage trying to avoid copyright strikes. Several of the girls can be seen looking scared and shaken nervously, with rapid eye movements. It looks like many of them are forcing themselves to smile when Diana tries to cheer them up. Donna Troy (as the internet has chosen to call her) is still sitting down after everyone else has gotten up and Diana has to talk to her specifically to get her in good spirits. She's also shown hyperventilating when Roose is about to shoot the hostages, in a shot that is not in the Whedon cut.
I'll give you an example of a negative in the scene - not counting "lack of color" which will be a problem for the whole length of the movie, of course. The part where the suitcase bomb goes off is padded to hell and back in this version. The explosion is also considerably larger, but WW would have no way of knowing that, so it doesn't make her see more tactical in this case (she jumps out of the building then throws it up in this version - the only reason the hostages aren't killed during this part is because Roose gets stupid and switches a pistol out for his assault rifle)
Outside of that, I finally got the damn thing fired up. The ordeal was a
truly outrageous one, and it was more expensive than I expecting as well. Streaming services are not our friends and I want to see this problem improved upon in the future.
I'm going to enjoy every last element of this movie I can - lord knows I payed for it.
Sadly, fatigue takes me, so the 4-hour slog will be saved for a later time. I had the option of posting a reply and watching the cut, or sleep, and sleep won. I did however, watch a chunk of the first scene....
The first scene is the most overdone goofiness, with one or two particular characters appearing in a capacity that amused me for the wrong reasons. I knew going in this thing was going to be indulgent, and yet the opening is far more indulgent than I could have ever guessed. It's so Zack Snyder, I had a big stupid grin on my face the whole time. Yeah, atrocious pacing aside, I think I can have fun with this. Be nice if it had more color though. ^_^
First part is about the scene SS and I have been discussing, so mild ish spoilers here.
Spoiler
So I looked the whole thing up myself now, since I was clearly misinformed on the context. I was told she blew a dude up, but in context it's a bit better than I was lead to believe. What I was told was that they'd had this "really cool" bit with WW saving everyone with the bracelets deflecting bullets, only to then blow a dude up.
That said, while I think your interpretation is probably what was *intended*, the way it is edited and put together makes it seem like she just finally has enough, bangs the bracelets together, and the resulting shockwave blows up that part of the bank. And I have a hard time believing it was cut down "for time" when this monster is 4 hours. So either it was edited badly, which is Snyder's fault because it's his cut, they didn't have the footage necessary to do it properly (in which case they should have left that bit as it was imo) or Snyder intentionally edited it to make it look more like she blew him up, because that's what he thinks is "cooler"
Putting my next bit in spoilers also (I intended it to be double layered but that doesn't work anymore, apparently), it's from the end of the film so like,
big daddy spoilers ahead.
Spoiler
And none of that changes the fact that, during the time travel scene, we LITERALLY SEE several heroes reform from the skeleton back outward. I have seen this scene with my own eyes. Why do we need to see that? We don't see it going forward, but we LINGER on the tissue forming over Superman's hand as Barry is turning back time. That has no purpose being there except "Because Snyder" and would never, EVER have made it into a theatrical cut.
There's all kinds of other issues with the scene too. First of all, the portal opens to Darkseid, he sees Steppenwolf on the ground, no effort to come through or send more hordes or anything. Even after that, the portal's open for entire sections, but nah, Darkseid just stands there. He's not even lounging on a comfy chair or anything. Second, there's the whole wind up with Barry... first of all, rather than let it just be a cool silent moment where the character is stepping up, he's talking to himself with some rather awful dialogue. Then he does this "wind up" to the run which looks more like he's going to do a spin than a dang run (like, what. No one who actually runs would do that).
Again, I will credit the fact that, for all my friend's gripes of Superman still jobbing Steppenwolf, the rest of the League has more to actually do. But there are clearly still problems with this film, and it is only better because the original was so much worse. It needed someone to take a hacksaw to it in the editing room, and to allow the VFX team to focus on polishing up the remaining movie. The cgi is really, REALLY jarring in places, particularly because no one apparently cared about matching light sources properly. It doesn't help that Steppenwolf himself is practically a spotlight AT ALL TIMES, reflecting light that doesn't actually exist in many of the sets he's in.
I have finally seen the
Flash and Cyborg Cut Snyder Cut.
I really, really liked it. It's not perfect by any means, but there's a lot in here I like.
Tom, you've given me some food for thought. Here's some more reply.
Spoiler
QuoteThat said, while I think your interpretation is probably what was *intended*, the way it is edited and put together makes it seem like she just finally has enough, bangs the bracelets together, and the resulting shockwave blows up that part of the bank. And I have a hard time believing it was cut down "for time" when this monster is 4 hours. So either it was edited badly, which is Snyder's fault because it's his cut, they didn't have the footage necessary to do it properly (in which case they should have left that bit as it was imo) or Snyder intentionally edited it to make it look more like she blew him up, because that's what he thinks is "cooler"
Yes, this scene is a bit puzzling because of the various components of how it is laid out. And the fact that it's not clear as a result whether WW directly or indirectly killed Roose is too bad. If it's direct, I'll fully cop, I think it's more than a bit crap. It's unnecessary, creates (for some reason, "because Snyder" I suppose) massive property damage (oh right, this is technically a Man of Steel/BVS followup) that almost lands on the Swat guys. It makes WW out like a butcher AND an idiot when she just used split second tactics to keep everyone alive. She could have snapped Roose's neck, threw him out a window, oh I don't know....knock him out. Anything other than blow the wall out.
Anyway, I didn't spell it out, but I didn't mean I thought it was edited for
time. I meant because it could be considered to be in extremely bad taste to put this particular sequence out right now.
QuoteAnd none of that changes the fact that, during the time travel scene, we LITERALLY SEE several heroes reform from the skeleton back outward. I have seen this scene with my own eyes. Why do we need to see that? We don't see it going forward, but we LINGER on the tissue forming over Superman's hand as Barry is turning back time. That has no purpose being there except "Because Snyder" and would never, EVER have made it into a theatrical cut.
There's all kinds of other issues with the scene too.
So thanks for clarifying. I was actually curious, having now seen the movie, which part you thought was particularly Snyder.
I'll get to Flash later in my post, outside of this bubble, but because this is the big "hero moment" for the new and improved Ezra Miller Flash, I love love love love
LOVE this part of the movie. AND YET........
It is probably the most indulgent part of a movie that is indulgent in quite a lot of areas. Not counting the Knightmare sequence of course, which is not supposed to be here.
For one thing, it's about 4 times longer than it needs to be.
Even though I love the character work involved in this moment, the moment-to-moment of it could have been, and yes, IMO, probably should have been, toned the heck down.
I mean, this IS a version of Apocalpse War's ending that doesn't junk the entire movie. That's actually pretty cool, and the fact that it's also character development at the same time makes it even more nice.
Somewhere in the proverbial editing room, perhaps, lies a edit of this movie that improves on this and other imperfections. And yet...
Man, the Snyder Cut really improved on a lot of key areas. It's still got a lot of issues, but holy crap is Flash a better character in this movie. And Cyborg actually IS a character. I was not expecting their achievements in this movie to be so significant as they are. It's a crying shame that almost none of that came through in the 2017 cut; if it had, I kinda feel like the 2017 cut might have been accepted to a degree on its own and the Snyder Cut could have been deemed unnecessary. As it is, I think it's great people finally got to see this thing and see what these two characters were SUPPOSED to be capable of. For this reason, looking up the reception to it has almost been as enjoyable, if not more, than the film itself.
For those who wish to continue to dismiss Snyder, I would guess a good chunk of this character work is the work of screenwriter Chris Terreo, who described BVS as being more like Empire Strikes Back, and this movie as more like Return of the Jedi. Which is a somewhat iffy metaphor but I think I agree with the nucleolus of the idea. Actually, before I forget, Ray Fisher himself (Cyborg) wrote for all the Cyborg stuff.
And Aquaman's not a walking meme. Impressively, the infamous "mah man" is actually a legit good moment in context of the Snyder Cut, since it comes after Arthur gives Cyborg a much needed pep talk. [edit, actually, I remembered wrong. He said it to Flash, but the line was "I never said I didn't care.". I'm pretty sure (?) that was never in the 2017, and in general Arthur being treated more seriously makes it feel more earned.]
And Steppenwolf is actually a more fleshed out and more threatening villain. And Darkseid was actually kinda cool. And Batman didn't completely job in this movie.
It was kinda fun to see Leto's Joker play off Batfleck, but otherwise, the Knightmare scene was utter crap that had no business being in the gosh darn movie.
It would have nice if this thing had more color. And if Cyborg would lighten up a bit more, allowing Ray Fisher to show more range. And if Iris was an actual character. And if Aquaman didn't largely exist to advertise a movie that already came out. And yet, I got to see the Snyder Cut and that's pretty neat.
Outside of that Aquaman chanting scene (why was that in the movie?) I more or less enjoyed pretty much every minute of this movie. I actually kinda want to see a sequel to it. It has an actual story this time.
Yeah SS that was one of my original complaints was the mess that was the plot of the theatrical version. I mean I know comics, I know continuity but I could not make heads or tails of what the hell was going on. And while a part of me wants to say "yeah Snyder had four hours to actually explain things, I'm not entirely sure if it was just that.
And about what you said about Ray Fisher, that's surprising. I didn't know that and it kinda puts his beef that he had with JW and WB in yet another light, but I can't hate on him for it, the proof is literally in the pudding. Everyone who has seen this has said that, like you said, he's an actual character. That was the original vision and that was taken away from him. I'd feel salty just for that alone, but considering the other stuff.... I won't get into it, but what you said made me appreciate what he did in the movie more.
Oh I know right?
Quotebut I could not make heads or tails of what the hell was going on.
Like best example, the parademon at the beginning explodes into goo, and the goo splatter is a drawing of the mother boxes and that's how they knew about the mother boxes....what kinda sense does that make?
It's like Suicide Squad....or the post credit scene with Lex on the boat in the 2017...you can tell they switched stuff out.
On Cyborg:
Spoiler
"I don't praise Chris Terrio and @ZackSnyder
for simply putting me in Justice League.
I praise them for EMPOWERING me (a black man with no film credits to his name) with a seat at the creative table and input on the framing of the Stones before there was even a script!" (https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1269390792499630080?lang=en)
Like this is the stuff that blows my ever-loving mind, the Cyborg story. You got Steppenwolf jumping in like a ninja and grabbing the box while they calm down Supes, and he goes "peace out" and leaves in the Boom Tube. And you're telling me you couldn't make the movie a few more minutes over 2 hours, get in the scene where Vic's Dad gets it, then do some reshoots with Vic, where he's talking to Arthur or someone, then add back in the scene at the end where he's listening to the tape recorder?
Like, Flash still got the scene where he tells Henry Allen he got a job at the crime lab, and they set that up at the start of the flick, but Cyborg got nothing. Like they totally did him dirty.
Other things I remembered:
Spoiler
-I was just thinking, maybe if MM ever appears in another movie, they could establish that MM, like in Supergirl, was taking the form of someone who already exist and Lennix wasn't actually MM in the previous films, only this one. That would go a long way to explaining it, because as is, it makes no sense. After all, no human being watched that and went "holy crap, Martha Kent was MM the whole time?" I'd be in favor for that. It'd go a long way to redeeming that sloppy retcon, and Lennix is a pretty legit choice for J'onn J'onz. the facial animation for him was pretty dodgy but the voice totally worked for me.
-I was saying this when they did the time distorting with Flash, while I was watching the movie. The Ezra Millar cameo in the Arrowverse finally makes sense. "I told Victor this was possible." MAH MAN!