New thread for a new title... THE FORCE AWAKENS.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/06/showbiz/movies/star-wars-7-the-force-awakens/index.html
As I've said before, all that I really know about this, as I'm trying not to get too invested, is that Mark Hamill is playing Luke Skywalker again. It's difficult to express how awesome that is. I really hope they take full advantage of that fact.
Quote from: BentonGrey on November 06, 2014, 10:18:43 PM
As I've said before, all that I really know about this, as I'm trying not to get too invested, is that Mark Hamill is playing Luke Skywalker again. It's difficult to express how awesome that is. I really hope they take full advantage of that fact.
From what I'm hearing of what they're going to do, I don't know how audiences will react... but it will be interesting to see.
Don't tell me things like that Shogunn! :P
I want to get excited for this, but I'm not really a fan of JJ Abrams for the most part, and we've been burned before....
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on November 06, 2014, 08:51:17 PM
New thread for a new title... THE FORCE AWAKENS.
"Did I fall asleep?"
"For a little while." (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1135300/)
The midichlorians got sleepy?
Official Trailer #1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je0ZEk_VMLw)
Quote from: Kommando on November 08, 2014, 05:30:20 PM
I'm attempting to avoid the hype and more importantly the Fandom Menace. I'll just quietly slip in a theater when it plays and then never discuss it with anyone after that. Much better that way.
Lmao!
So far, not impressed. I'm just hoping that this isn't as bad as the last set of films.
Looks pretty sweet to me.
Finally watched it. I'm not going to say the idea that a new Star Wars nor the details thus far aren't exciting whether that's in a giddy or apprehensive way, but just of the trailer itself I'm pretty much not having a reaction since there really isn't anything there. It looks more like a couple test footage scenes slapped together for a demo than an official trailer. I'll be glad to see one that's a little more full.
Hard to get too excited about the teaser, because it is just that, a teaser. Doesn't give you anything to go about the story or characters, but the imagery is promisng. The new trooper designs, broadsword lightsaber, and the flight of the Falcon look nice.
Hoping for the best with this project.
Personally, I can't get past the broadsword lightsabre. Lightsabers were already as cool as possible in the first films, apparently, because all of these unique "kewl" ones in the prequels and now the sequels just seem like they're trying too hard.
Maybe we can get this in the next sequel: http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/star-wars-7-lightsaber-memes-sith-army-knife.jpg
:lol: :P :D
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/bf500c9fcc64d0663db6943709e4e380/tumblr_nmyzyyMGdI1qltxtto1_500.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGbxmsDFVnE
As I'm sure this has been heavily viewed several hundred times already, I do have to say I, like many of you must have several questions:
Spoiler
Where's Luke? I mean I know we might have seen his hand, but he's not on the poster, he does have a leading role, and he did do a voice over... but was he talking to Finn... or Kylo Ren? Apparently there is a rumor going around that he is indeed Kylo Ren, which might be a little impossible. That said, his absence is noticeable. Speaking of noticing, not sure how many noticed that Finn has Luke/Anakin's lightsaber.
Either way, I am looking forward to it. As are the record breaking IMAX ticket buyers when it went on sale yesterday. Kudos to Disney.
The word I've heard from a while now, is that he's only appear in the last few seconds of the movie. He's just a cameo, basically, leading into a bigger role for the next movie. The other characters are spending the whole movie trying to get his lightsaber back to him and only succeed at the end.
This may or may not be true, of course.
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on October 20, 2015, 10:40:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGbxmsDFVnE
As I'm sure this has been heavily viewed several hundred times already, I do have to say I, like many of you must have several questions:
Spoiler
Where's Luke? I mean I know we might have seen his hand, but he's not on the poster, he does have a leading role, and he did do a voice over... but was he talking to Finn... or Kylo Ren? Apparently there is a rumor going around that he is indeed Kylo Ren, which might be a little impossible. That said, his absence is noticeable. Speaking of noticing, not sure how many noticed that Finn has Luke/Anakin's lightsaber.
Either way, I am looking forward to it. As are the record breaking IMAX ticket buyers when it went on sale yesterday. Kudos to Disney.
I've heard that rumour too, and if it is, I will freak out - and not in a good way. JJ Abrams is already on notice for what he did to Star Trek.
Actually... I really liked Star Trek. Yeah this is coming from at best a casual fan, but those were some really good movies I'd say. Which is why I have high ecpectations for this.
Spoiler
I'm not sure I can go as far as Cat is going. I doubt he'd receive top billing for what amounts to a cameo. Though I guess it's possible. And Adam Driver is Kylo Ren. Andy Serkis is HIS master. Even the last shot with him about to wail on Finn, it's noticeably Driver's hair and figure. Definitely not a 60 year old short man. That said, I'm almost positive SOMETHING happens to Luke Skywalker. He's missing, he's found, he dies. He turns to the Dark Side. He turns from the Dark Side. Something. He doesn't share the story with the other characters.
It could be a large dose of nostalgia, but that was the greatest movie trailer I have ever seen! Goosebumps! Frickin' goosebumps! :thumbup:
The trailer really didn't excite me. I'm going to go see it, but I guess I've seen so much hype for it and reading the comics, I'm kind of numb to it now.
All I keep saying is that the Phantom Menace had great trailers too. I haven't drunk the Kool-Aid on this one yet.
Love the new Star Wars trailer. It did in fact give me the goosebumps. Definitely looking forward to this one.
What about Leia? Shouldn't she be just as powerful in the force as Luke?
Quote from: captmorgan72 on October 27, 2015, 09:44:11 PM
What about Leia? Shouldn't she be just as powerful in the force as Luke?
Depends on if she's been training over the last so many years or not. She has, in theory, the same raw force power, but untrained it wouldn't really mean anything.
In the EU, she never trained as much as Luke, focusing more on diplomacy.
I hear Ewoks might be back,so Im not that excited...
I was very neutral, due to Abrams' "edgy" Star Trek, but I saw Han standing there with Chewy behind him, and I was home.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpSFp-gw6lY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpSFp-gw6lY)
International trailer.It still doesnt really sit right with me.Cant really say why.
Is it just me,or is Kylo Ren modeled after Revan?
Early critic reviews are in and they are overwhelmingly positive. It seems like a large number of critics and ranking it as the 3rd best in the franchise, and just about all seems to compare it to the original trilogy rather than the prequels.
Sounds like we may be in for a treat.
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on December 15, 2015, 10:49:15 PM
Early critic reviews are in and they are overwhelmingly positive. It seems like a large number of critics and ranking it as the 3rd best in the franchise, and just about all seems to compare it to the original trilogy rather than the prequels.
Sounds like we may be in for a treat.
Let's hope. By 3rd best I assume they mean better than the prequels (an easy bar to clear) and Jedi, but worse than Empire and Star Wars. Not the worst place to be.
On a side note guys, we all know the rules. Out of respect for other (others meaning ME) don't not post any spoilers. If you do I will go to your house and rip up your X-men comics!!
Quote from: JeyNyce on December 15, 2015, 11:11:10 PM
On a side note guys, we all know the rules. Out of respect for other (others meaning ME) don't not post any spoilers. If you do I will go to your house and rip up your X-men comics!!
LMAO!
But I'm hearing the buzz and I'm hearing not top 3, but top 2. Like Empire and then this. Honestly, my expectations are high, but it's Star Wars and there's no way for my expectations to be anything but and though I'm sure I'll like it regardless. But I trust Abrams. I am not a Star Trek fan, but in my opinion, the two he did MADE Star Trek actually interesting to me. They were epic and gripping and so much fan and I expect nothing less from this, but this is Star Wars so it connects to me on another level.
18 hours to go...
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on December 17, 2015, 06:01:55 AM
Quote from: JeyNyce on December 15, 2015, 11:11:10 PM
On a side note guys, we all know the rules. Out of respect for other (others meaning ME) don't not post any spoilers. If you do I will go to your house and rip up your X-men comics!!
LMAO!
But I'm hearing the buzz and I'm hearing not top 3, but top 2. Like Empire and then this. Honestly, my expectations are high, but it's Star Wars and there's no way for my expectations to be anything but and though I'm sure I'll like it regardless. But I trust Abrams. I am not a Star Trek fan, but in my opinion, the two he did MADE Star Trek actually interesting to me. They were epic and gripping and so much fan and I expect nothing less from this, but this is Star Wars so it connects to me on another level.
18 hours to go...
I saw the film tonight, and I enjoyed it -the first JJ Abrams anything I've really liked- but it's definitely not top 2. I'd put it right between the original trilogy and the prequels in quality myself, though closer to the original 3. So are we saying no spoilers even in spoiler tags?
Quote from: Talavar on December 18, 2015, 04:26:30 AM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on December 17, 2015, 06:01:55 AM
Quote from: JeyNyce on December 15, 2015, 11:11:10 PM
On a side note guys, we all know the rules. Out of respect for other (others meaning ME) don't not post any spoilers. If you do I will go to your house and rip up your X-men comics!!
LMAO!
But I'm hearing the buzz and I'm hearing not top 3, but top 2. Like Empire and then this. Honestly, my expectations are high, but it's Star Wars and there's no way for my expectations to be anything but and though I'm sure I'll like it regardless. But I trust Abrams. I am not a Star Trek fan, but in my opinion, the two he did MADE Star Trek actually interesting to me. They were epic and gripping and so much fan and I expect nothing less from this, but this is Star Wars so it connects to me on another level.
18 hours to go...
I saw the film tonight, and I enjoyed it -the first JJ Abrams anything I've really liked- but it's definitely not top 2. I'd put it right between the original trilogy and the prequels in quality myself, though closer to the original 3. So are we saying no spoilers even in spoiler tags?
I'm with you on this. I'll go with the spoiler tags.
Spoiler
There was quite a bit to digest. A lot to unpack. I did like it. The action was good, the characters were interesting and endearing. Extremely. And it was a fun ride. I do have to say, I'm not sure it's the lack of attached nostalgia or the fact that I'm coming in about as ignorant of others, or maybe I'm just getting old, but something seemed... off. Or for some particular reason I'm not as attached to this film as I am the others, including the prequels.
I mean the prequels had a level of familiarity that the original trilogy did. I knew the story. I knew where it was going. I knew Anakin and Padme would have twins. I knew the Empire would rise from the Republic. I knew all the Jedi would get killed. I even knew Obi-Wan would beat Anakin, easily, on a planet full of lava. I knew all that at least a decade before it happened. But here this was a blank slate. 30 years of Star Wars happened and it's unfamiliar territory. There are the basics, the fragments they told us. After Endor, Luke tried to restore the Jedi Order, with his nephew being one of those learners until he turns and destroys what Luke built and joins Snoke, who starts the First Order from the remnants of the Empire. And the First Order is being opposed by the Resistance, which is being supported by the New Republic. There's a lot that happened in 30 years. And it seems as if I missed at least a movie or two to tell all of that. And this movie isn't picking up where the last one(Ep6) ends, but it's a different story.
Anyway, the movie itself hit a lot of familiar patterns. the first 20-30 minutes were a bit of a carbon copy of Episode 4. The Empire/First Order attacking a rebel/resistance outpost, capturing a key rebel/resistance figure while that figure's droid gets away with critical information. And the youthful force sensitive that finds the droid leaves his/her desert planet to fight the Empire/First Order and you know there's more to tell about his/her parentage. Oh and like every 1st movie of a trilogy a lead character dies. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and now Han Solo. It's a little disappointing, but not too unexpected. As far as the rest of the movie goes, I think I loved all of the characters. All of the actors/actresses did a good job. It was nice to see more familiar faces, Ackbar, Nein Nunb. Overall I was happy with the film. Just some things stuck out that bothered me. How is Finn an expert with a lightsaber? Rey I guess it can be explained, still a little weird though. But I just can't shake that feeling of I missed soooo much they didn't show. Like watching a television series and missing like a month of episodes in the middle of the season.
Spoiler tags are fine. :thumbup:
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on December 18, 2015, 12:09:19 PM
Quote from: Talavar on December 18, 2015, 04:26:30 AM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on December 17, 2015, 06:01:55 AM
Quote from: JeyNyce on December 15, 2015, 11:11:10 PM
On a side note guys, we all know the rules. Out of respect for other (others meaning ME) don't not post any spoilers. If you do I will go to your house and rip up your X-men comics!!
LMAO!
But I'm hearing the buzz and I'm hearing not top 3, but top 2. Like Empire and then this. Honestly, my expectations are high, but it's Star Wars and there's no way for my expectations to be anything but and though I'm sure I'll like it regardless. But I trust Abrams. I am not a Star Trek fan, but in my opinion, the two he did MADE Star Trek actually interesting to me. They were epic and gripping and so much fan and I expect nothing less from this, but this is Star Wars so it connects to me on another level.
18 hours to go...
I saw the film tonight, and I enjoyed it -the first JJ Abrams anything I've really liked- but it's definitely not top 2. I'd put it right between the original trilogy and the prequels in quality myself, though closer to the original 3. So are we saying no spoilers even in spoiler tags?
I'm with you on this. I'll go with the spoiler tags.
Spoiler
There was quite a bit to digest. A lot to unpack. I did like it. The action was good, the characters were interesting and endearing. Extremely. And it was a fun ride. I do have to say, I'm not sure it's the lack of attached nostalgia or the fact that I'm coming in about as ignorant of others, or maybe I'm just getting old, but something seemed... off. Or for some particular reason I'm not as attached to this film as I am the others, including the prequels.
I mean the prequels had a level of familiarity that the original trilogy did. I knew the story. I knew where it was going. I knew Anakin and Padme would have twins. I knew the Empire would rise from the Republic. I knew all the Jedi would get killed. I even knew Obi-Wan would beat Anakin, easily, on a planet full of lava. I knew all that at least a decade before it happened. But here this was a blank slate. 30 years of Star Wars happened and it's unfamiliar territory. There are the basics, the fragments they told us. After Endor, Luke tried to restore the Jedi Order, with his nephew being one of those learners until he turns and destroys what Luke built and joins Snoke, who starts the First Order from the remnants of the Empire. And the First Order is being opposed by the Resistance, which is being supported by the New Republic. There's a lot that happened in 30 years. And it seems as if I missed at least a movie or two to tell all of that. And this movie isn't picking up where the last one(Ep6) ends, but it's a different story.
Anyway, the movie itself hit a lot of familiar patterns. the first 20-30 minutes were a bit of a carbon copy of Episode 4. The Empire/First Order attacking a rebel/resistance outpost, capturing a key rebel/resistance figure while that figure's droid gets away with critical information. And the youthful force sensitive that finds the droid leaves his/her desert planet to fight the Empire/First Order and you know there's more to tell about his/her parentage. Oh and like every 1st movie of a trilogy a lead character dies. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and now Han Solo. It's a little disappointing, but not too unexpected. As far as the rest of the movie goes, I think I loved all of the characters. All of the actors/actresses did a good job. It was nice to see more familiar faces, Ackbar, Nein Nunb. Overall I was happy with the film. Just some things stuck out that bothered me. How is Finn an expert with a lightsaber? Rey I guess it can be explained, still a little weird though. But I just can't shake that feeling of I missed soooo much they didn't show. Like watching a television series and missing like a month of episodes in the middle of the season.
Spoilers!
Spoiler
I did really enjoy the movie, and the new cast are great. Poe, Finn Kylo Ren and Rey are all really excellent new characters, and portrayed very well by their respective actors, and I'm looking forward to their further adventures. There's actual humour again, unlike that stuff the prequels tried to pass off as humour. There is believable, emotional weight to why Han & Leia split, and why Han went back to smuggling. The weakest point is the actual plot. In many ways it's a Greatest Hits album of the original trilogy, and I would have liked a more original story. Hopefully we'll get that in the follow ups.
Personally, I really like the mystery. I was too young to see the original trilogy as they came out, so for me all the plot points could be resolved in a day. The prequels didn't really have any mystery: we knew where they were going, and they went there with very little that was unexpected. I like not knowing what's up with Rey and her family yet. Or why Kylo Ren went to the dark side. Who is the Supreme Leader? Or the old man at the beginning who had Luke's map? I'm curious about all of these details, and for the first time with Star Wars I don't know, and can't easily find out. It's exciting.
Minor quibbles: they could have at least let Luke have a line. And Captain Phasma wishes she was the Boba Fett of this movie. He at least died like a chump. She doesn't really do anything.
Fantastic movie! It made my wife actually want to watch the originals and prequels. People were clapping during our screening tonight, and she really got into it. Could understand the cultural phenomenon that it is.
Spoilers below!
Spoiler
i really think Captain Phasma will be the Lando of the new movies, not Fett. She's got a relationship with Finn that could be explored further. Why does she have a name, what sets her apart from the other stormtroopers. There's definitely some behind the scenes stuff going on here with the First Order
So good! So good! I couldn't believe what a relief it was to watch a good Star Wars movie.
Spoiler
They NAILED C3PO's introduction. He was one of my favourite characters in the sequels, and they just wrecked him in the prequels. So nice to have him back properly.
"Why! It's captain solo! It is I, C3PO. You may not have recognised me because of my red arm."
Quote from: Reepicheep on December 19, 2015, 12:50:44 AM
So good! So good! I couldn't believe what a relief it was to watch a good Star Wars movie.
Spoiler
They NAILED C3PO's introduction. He was one of my favourite characters in the sequels, and they just wrecked him in the prequels. So nice to have him back properly.
"Why! It's captain solo! It is I, C3PO. You may not have recognised me because of my red arm."
I know that was sooo dope!
I just saw it. It's good.....all of it.
Spoiler
Yeah the movie is like a greatest hits reel or a kind of remake of the original, but that's what I was expecting. I was a little disappointed that Luke didn't show until the end and doesn't even get to speak. I guess we'll just have to wait until the next one.
It was a little sad that they killed Han, but I was pretty much expecting it. Harrison Ford was great in it though. Lots of fun lines and jokes. I enjoyed seeing him try out Chewie's bowcaster, but I'm kinda surprised it took him so many years (decades!) before ever trying it. It does show the love and creativity the creators have for Star Wars. I can just imagine them in a meeting room coming up with that.
Saw it in 3D and the 3D was actually pretty good. There was a great shot where a Star Destroyer (or whatever they call them these days) is jutting out at the viewer. I really liked that every returning character and famous piece of iconography got a good reveal, the shot at very beginning of the Star Destroyer blocking out the sun/planet? Brilliant.
C3P0's bit was cute. Felt very in character for him.
www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/134049-superman-writer-says-star-wars-character-is-mary-sue-internet-explodes-spoilers.html?utm_content=buffer24418&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/134049-superman-writer-says-star-wars-character-is-mary-sue-internet-explodes-spoilers.html?utm_content=buffer24418&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer)
Twitter wars about the movie continue.Anyone remembers when comic writers and artists didnt feel obliged to share their thoughts about movies and gun control?Me neither...
Ofc they have every right to comment whatever they like,but it doesnt have make news.Anywhere else then The Outhouse.
"A woman who is good at two things?!! This is clearly bad writing!"
<_< People are garbage. The Force Awakens is the best movie ever in large part because Rey is awesome.
Well she does
Spoiler
master the Force pretty fast with no previous training,on her own,in first try.Just saying...
Spoilers Spade.
But the subtitle of the movie is named after her. It's pretty apparent that
Spoiler
Rey is the new Luke
. The other thing that people keep forgetting about Rey is:
Spoiler
she's also a fangirl, the same way Luke really wanted to go to the pilot academy, Rey probably grew up dreaming about Star Wars, especially the rebel alliance. She knew all about Han Solo as a smuggler, she keeps a busted X-Wing pilot helmet for fun, and knew all the legends of the Jedi. She only tapped into the force so quick after Kylo Ren awoke it in her, then she tried to do all the tricks she read about. It seems like Luke had never heard of Jedi before, so he really needed every bit of training. Rey was already an accomplished fighter and survivor from having to fend for herself for ten years, now she had the power to back up her hopes and dreams she's thought of for so long.
Quote from: detourne_me on December 23, 2015, 07:06:24 PM
But the subtitle of the movie is named after her. It's pretty apparent that Spoiler
Rey is the new Luke
Spoiler
she's also a fangirl, the same way Luke really wanted to go to the pilot academy, Rey probably grew up dreaming about Star Wars, especially the rebel alliance. She knew all about Han Solo as a smuggler, she keeps a busted X-Wing pilot helmet for fun, and knew all the legends of the Jedi. She only tapped into the force so quick after Kylo Ren awoke it in her, then she tried to do all the tricks she read about. It seems like Luke had never heard of Jedi before, so he really needed every bit of training. Rey was already an accomplished fighter and survivor from having to fend for herself for ten years, now she had the power to back up her hopes and dreams she's thought of for so long.
Knowing about it and doing it are very different things.
Basically,she goes from not knowing
Spoiler
shes Force sensitive to using Force Persuasion in (almost) a few minutes.That my friend,is not a simple trick.
Quote from: Spade on December 23, 2015, 07:27:46 PM
Quote from: detourne_me on December 23, 2015, 07:06:24 PM
But the subtitle of the movie is named after her. It's pretty apparent that Spoiler
Rey is the new Luke
Spoiler
she's also a fangirl, the same way Luke really wanted to go to the pilot academy, Rey probably grew up dreaming about Star Wars, especially the rebel alliance. She knew all about Han Solo as a smuggler, she keeps a busted X-Wing pilot helmet for fun, and knew all the legends of the Jedi. She only tapped into the force so quick after Kylo Ren awoke it in her, then she tried to do all the tricks she read about. It seems like Luke had never heard of Jedi before, so he really needed every bit of training. Rey was already an accomplished fighter and survivor from having to fend for herself for ten years, now she had the power to back up her hopes and dreams she's thought of for so long.
Knowing about it and doing it are very different things.
Basically,she goes from not knowing Spoiler
shes Force sensitive to using Force Persuasion in (almost) a few minutes.That my friend,is not a simple trick.
Spoiler
Star Wars has a habit of doing things at the speed of plot. I'd bet there's explanations to come as to why she picked it up so quickly, but for most part I'd just let it slide that she taught herself some techniques so that we could get on with the story.
Faster and more intense?
I'm agreeing with Slade here.
Spoiler
She said she thought the Jedi was a myth. That doesn't mean she knew the things they did. I would imagine that if she just thought they were a myth and not actually existed, this must mean the Emperor must have banned and destroyed any and all sources of information on the Jedi. I mean, Nazi Germany existed as far back for me as the Jedi does for Rey. I can open up a history book and read about them. I know they existed. She just thinks they're a myth. For her to think that she cannot confirm that they actually existed. More than that though, it's one thing to be able to FEEL the Force and another thing to be able to USE the Force. Her being able to feel the Force can explain her proficiency piloting and even fighting. But without being trained it's hard to imagine her being able to use a Jedi Mind Trick and to Force pull objects for something she really didn't know existed until a day earlier. Granted, detourne, you might have a point, but it's hard to imagine. Especially when you look at Luke who had four years to learn a Force pull when he was trapped in an ice cave in ESB and he was barely able to do it. But Rey was able to master a pull(from a trained Force user) in a matter of hours?
At the end of the day, it could all be possible that she was a fanboy(girl) and knew of the things the Jedi could do and tried to do what she knew they could or it also could be that she learned a lot of this stuff prior to Kylo Ren's destroying the order, which prompted Luke to place a block on her memory and to leave her so he wouldn't screw up her life like he screwed up Ben's... but they should have done a better job of explaining that and not just waiting to do it in another movie.
But speaking of which...
Spoiler
Not sure if any of you play Infinities, but with their release of their The Force Awakens set, they might have released a spoiler that only Disney could know... Listen for yourself(at about 20:30 in...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNXRZd5vkdo
It definitely sounds as if Kylo Ren(Ben Solo, the son of Leia) said to Rey "Face me, cousin." That would mean her father has to be Luke... or a Force Sensitive brother of Han i guess.
Spoiler
My two theories were that Rey's mother or father was a child of Vader's. Though he was all burned up and stuff it's possible he could have had more children later. That's a better theory since his lightsaber called to her and this Disney Infinity thing (which could easily be a trick like they do).
My other theory is that she's Palpatine's granddaughter. I think that would just be cool.
Either way, having an evil grandfather would explain why she was sold to the junkman.
But hey I'm sure they have some kind of reveal and I don't usually like to speculate so nevermind.
Shogun,
Spoiler
it's been confirmed that the line is "Face me. [after getting hit] Curses!"
Finally saw the movie today and it was awesome. I saw on Facebook that they are letting people post spoilers, so I was wondering if you guys wanted to start posting spoilers, without the tags, or do you want to continue just the way it is now? Thanks!
It just hit the 1 billion mark and shows no sign of stopping any time soon.
I have a question:
Who was the hero of this movie?? The commercials had Finn as the hero, as him being the Jedi and hanging with Han & Chewie, but in the end Rey did it all. Where does that leaves Finn?
Quote from: JeyNyce on December 27, 2015, 10:28:55 PM
I have a question:
Who was the hero of this movie?? The commercials had Finn as the hero, as him being the Jedi and hanging with Han & Chewie, but in the end Rey did it all. Where does that leaves Finn?
Who is the hero of the original Star Wars? Ostensibly Luke, but Han and Leia are both important. Same deal here.
Quote from: JeyNyce on December 26, 2015, 05:20:25 AM
Finally saw the movie today and it was awesome. I saw on Facebook that they are letting people post spoilers, so I was wondering if you guys wanted to start posting spoilers, without the tags, or do you want to continue just the way it is now? Thanks!
I know that everyone has their own opinions regarding spoilers, but being that the movie has only just started its second week; I would have to say that we should continue with tags. I've always felt, that at a minimum, spoiler tags should be used while a movie is still in theatres.
I was a tremendous Star Wars fan when I was a kid. These movies were the medium of my imaginative awakening, serving for me as George McDonald's books did for C.S. Lewis. I watched the original films endlessly, and I read every Star Wars book I could get my hands on until I got to high school. I read the
Guide to the Star Wars Universe from cover to cover so often I can still remember vast amounts of information about fictional technologies, places, and peoples. I was a bit of a fan, is what I am saying. Today, Luke Skywalker remains my favorite fictional character, though I toned down the Star Wars obsession as I got older. So, there was a lot at stake for me in this film.
We saw Star Wars today, and I have fought all year not to get too invested and to keep my expectations pretty low. Because of that, I enjoyed it fairly well, but I felt myself grow more and more frustrated as the film drew to a close. It's an entertaining movie, but flawed in several ways, some significant, some not. It is, I suppose, very much par for the course for J.J. Abrams, as it is all show and no stay. I will say that folks who are ranking it above any of the original trilogy are objectively wrong.
It accomplished what it set out to do: get the franchise out of the trainwreck that was the Prequels and set up a new trilogy. It didn't do it with particular grace, but with plenty of style.
Here are my thoughts:
As a film, it is unable to stand purely on its own merits
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as it recreates, in almost every scene and detail, the plot of Star Wars: A New Hope. That means that, while the movie is decent, as a movie, it owes many of its best moments and overall feel to a better film.
It is also, like Star Trek 2 before it, a perfect example of an Abram's film's tendency to be riddled with, if not plot holes, extreme contrivances, coincidences, and missing necessary exposition. These are all signs of sloppy writing, aside from how well the film evokes the franchise.
As a Star Wars film, it captures the feel of the action from the original trilogy, you get some good character moments like the originals as well, and the cast is vastly superior to the films-that-shall-not-be-named. Of course, that's not saying much, as I've seen school plays that outshine those cinematic crimes. On the other hand, throughout the film, I felt like I was watching fan-fiction with an extremely high budget. There was an imperfect understanding of the universe, concepts, and technologies of Star Wars.
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The clearest example of this, and one I understand a lot of folks are talking about, is the character Rey and how quickly and effortlessly she grows into her roll.
The greatest weakness is the new Dark Jedi. My thoughts about Kylo Ren can be best summed up by this utterly perfect fake Twitter account:
Emo Kylo Ren:
https://twitter.com/kylor3n?lang=en
(Note: There ARE spoilers in there)
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Instead of a mighty villain, we get an angsty, whiny kid with no actual motivation or sense of purpose.
He's not the only poorly developed character (Finn), but he certainly does the most damage to the film
.
I like the new characters, and they are promising for future adventures. They need another film to get developed, apparently.
There is more I could say, but that covers the highlights. I'll post a more thorough review soon.
I have to agree about the Kylo Ren part.
Once he
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takes off the Revan-evoking mask,he loses all credibility.
Kylo Ren:
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I will hugely disagree about Kylo Ren. I really, really liked him as a character. You could see from his opening shot that he was insecure and trying to live up to his hero. In his interactions with the other imperials, nobody takes him very seriously and his tantrums are clearly commonplace. I'm actually really glad that we got a very angsty, weaker villain instead of another mighty mighty dark jedi. The prequels made me more than a little bored of sith in the 'big bad' role. I feel like he's a better demonstration of what the dark side can do to a person's mind than Darth Vader or the Emperor ever was - powerful, but on very feeble foundations.
But then, I don't like my heroes or villains to be awesome.
When he took off his helmet, I was like: "yeah, that's totally what he should look like." He looks like a kid that was bullied and outcast at school. You could instantly see that there is personal strife behind him.
Yeah, Spade. He reminded me a lot of Revan aesthetically. But I'm glad he wasn't the same Military Genius character that Revan was.
We still clearly have another big bad in the supreme leader fellow.
I think if anything I would have liked to have seen some character development from the suited and booted officer that presented himself as Kylo's rival. He was obviously quite calculated and clever, but even though he was clearly important in the villain group, he hasn't really felt like the big bad guy he should be. I feel like the in-fighting amongst the first order is going to be a big deal.
As for your main point, Benton:
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Nobody can disagree that it is the plot of A New Hope again, for sure. But I'd say you're wrong about it being able to stand up on its own merits. My Dad saw A New Hope once many, many years ago and has largely forgotten it, but he very much enjoyed this one.
I'd probably say something more like: it fails to stand up on it's own merits for the existing fanbase. It's very capable of attracting new fans to the series, and has rekindled hope for fans who were let down by the prequel (Which, I believe, accounts for most of Earth's population.)
I completely agree with you Reep!
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theres a damned if you do, damned if you don't quality to the franchise. You can't start out fresh with a new story, and fully developed characters because people will complain that it has nothing to do with the original trilogy. Heck, I've even seen people complain about the KOTOR games because of it.
Then, on the other hand, if you try to rehash old territory, or create new characters that are young and need guidance from the old guard, you get people complaining as well.
Kylo Ren was a breath of fresh air, really. He's not Anakin Skywalker, a natural talent and then a towering force of nature. He's an impatient boy that can't quite live up to expectations, his or his parents.
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Quote from: detourne_me on December 28, 2015, 02:08:23 PM
Kylo Ren was a breath of fresh air, really. He's not Anakin Skywalker, a natural talent and then a towering force of nature. He's an impatient boy that can't quite live up to expectations, his or his parents.
[/quote][/spoiler]
Wait DM, I thought you said he WASN'T Anakin... :P
I disagree in the strongest terms, Reep, and I'll post an actual response later. At the moment, let me clarify, as I don't think I was clear enough.
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This movie doesn't stand on its own merits as an objet d'art because it is entirely derivative. That doesn't mean it couldn't succeed in being fun and entertaining when outside of the context of the originals. If you've never read The Odyssey, you'll never notice the parallels in The Aeneid. That doesn't mean they aren't there, though The Aeneid succeeds despite those similarities...
I'm talking about literary merit there, and that isn't what I'd consider the major issue by a long shot. I'd be more than happy to just say, 'okay, so it's derivative, but...' if the movie were better. Instead, the major issue is the utterly lazy and sloppy writing that manifests itself in the parade of plot holes, contrivances, and convenient occurrences.
Here's a list (occasionally inaccurate, as with the Rathtars) of plot holes/logical inconsistencies in the film that illustrate just how lazy the writing was:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html
(Lots of spoilers, of course) Most of those aren't, as claimed, unforgivable, though some (notably those involving Ren, Finn, and Rey) are certainly close.
More later gents.
I assume we all saw the movie,so minor spoilers:
-Was it worth the ticket?Yes.Was it worth losing the whole EU because of it?No.
-Despite what the trailers made us think,Finn isnt the main character.
His character arc is over pretty fast,after that hes just kinda there.I dont hate Finn,Im just saying that there was more that could have been done with the character.
-You kinda stop caring about new characters once Han Solo shows up,because he completly steals the movie. :)
Quote from: Spade on December 29, 2015, 06:26:55 AM
I assume we all saw the movie,so minor spoilers:
-Was it worth the ticket?Yes.Was it worth losing the whole EU because of it?No.
-Despite what the trailers made us think,Finn isnt the main character.
His character arc is over pretty fast,after that hes just kinda there.I dont hate Finn,Im just saying that there was more that could have been done with the character.
-You kinda stop caring about new characters once Han Solo shows up,because he completly steals the movie. :)
You know, I'm kinda on the fence about the loss of the EU. I mean I know I spent YEARS practically studying Star Wars continunity. I don't know how many of you actually seen Time Tales, but I've read the WHOLE thing, more than once. But that's just it. There were a lot of nuances that I'm glad to get rid of. Like when Han talks about that Bounty Hunter on Ord Mandell, do you know how many EU stories tell the story of Han a bounty hunter and Ord Mandell? I mean, I know the beautiful thing about the EU was the elasticity that it could weave itself it to whatever story that was written, but some of them were a might ridiculous. Point of note, I pretty much hated everything from the New Jedi order and on... maybe that's just me so I'm not losing any sleep over it.
Now that Disney/Lucasfilm has the new Canon, I look at it as an opportunity to streamline the stories and to lose a lot of the convoluted mess that's hard for even me to follow. Though it's a chance to start and keep up with a clean timeline, I am slowly realizing many of the new writers and creators are STILL using a lot of the EU as source material and BRINGING it into canon. Like the Hundred Years of Darkness, the Inquisitors, Death Watch, Witches of Dathomir, the "Old Republic" vs the "Galactic Republic". Even the "New Republic" is in Ep7. So the EU is there and still being used. They just can take and choose what they want. Ultimately, I'm sure the meat of what we knew as the EU will be restored as actual "Canon".
Ofc,we are talking about hundreds of works across several media,so not everything could be great.And again,I can understand WHY Disney did it,but I dont really like it.
And there will probably be some works in Legends continuity in the future.IMO Disney just didnt want to experiment with 2 timelines this early,but in the future...
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 29, 2015, 05:41:32 AM
I disagree in the strongest terms, Reep, and I'll post an actual response later.
Pistols at dawn, sir!
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I get what you're saying about the movie standing alone now, and agree from within my own terms. Thanks for clarifying. I feel on the Kylo Ren front we'll end up agreeing to disagree, but do share your observations.
I saw that same huffpost link earlier today and gave up about half way in. I don't know if I'm just not ready to be impartial and objective yet (I'm definitely going through a state of irrational euphoria now that I've watched a star wars movie I've enjoyed), but I found a lot of that list to be contrived.
Yeah all the things people complain about aren't even bad things to me. The plot being reused was strange but I feel like it was just to get the fans on board. It totally worked for me. I don't understand why Rey isn't allowed to be good at the force. Maybe she's just awesome, I like awesome stuff. Why is it bad that Kylo Ren has feelings? It's like everything we hated about Hayden Christiansen is fixed. People I know have emotions so I don't mind that being reflected in art. I feel like you have to be trying pretty hard to be disagreeable to not like a movie this good, it was running at 11 for action, characters, fun, coolness, and stuff you haven't seen before. If Star Wars just isn't your thing, I can understand. Go watch The King's Speech or Doubt or whatever Oscar movie you might enjoy.
Shes "allowed" to master the Force,its just pretty contrived she does it in 5 minutes.Fighting and piloting are justified,but Jedi Mind Trick?Maybe a second movie will explain it but now it didnt make sense really.
Quote from: BWPS on December 29, 2015, 02:09:24 PM
Yeah all the things people complain about aren't even bad things to me.
Totally the same. I think this movie has a lot of elements that are one man's trash and another man's treasure. I would defend a lot of the film's points, including
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Rey using the force so quickly and the reuse of the plot - these are things that I'm fine to be on board with
until the cows come home, but I understand if it jarred someone else.
I think the biggest talking point that isn't a matter of subjectivity is the loss of the EU, as Spade brought up. That's a lot of good content vanished. I never got particularly invested in the EU and I actually know very little about what was written for post-original trilogy (I've never read a star wars book, only pottered about on wookieepedia). Nonetheless, I would be interested in how much of the EU is actually incompatible with the new movies. I understand that the EU has killed off some key characters in ways that the movie may not depict, but there may still be entire stories or even parts of stories that one could still recognise as part of the canon.
Rey's
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skill with the force is definitely unusual, but I'm unwilling to write it off as a problem, as we know virtually nothing about the character. If she is Luke's kid, depending on the mother, she could be the most powerful potential force user ever. Maybe she had training as a child, but dismissed it all as play acting or imaginary as she grew up isolated. It's a question in need of an answer.
Kylo Ren is
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definitely not a problem however. He's one of the few times this movie does something new, and it is absolutely credible. He's an angry young man growing up in the shadow of legendary parents. Of course he's going to have issues with them, and how they achieved their goals. If the galaxy was really saved, why is it still such a crappy place (to his mind). Don't confuse not getting what you wanted with getting a poorly conceived character.
And as to the loss of the EU, well, it wasn't worth bus fare. The handful of good stories were dragged down by the boatloads of trash they were yoked to. The stories still exist, it's just now no one has to pretend they're canon anymore.
Well the biggest problem with EU was that-well,future was done.You had New Jedi Order,Invasion,Legacy-there just wasn't room for a new movie there.So yeah,future had to go.But for now there is no need to rewrite the past,so those stories could still be canon.Could,but also don't have to be.
:thumbup:
I couldn't make it through that HuffClickbait article Benton. Half the time the writer contradicted themselves or just wasn't paying attention.
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Plunkett didn't steal BB8 outright because those food portions are worthless to him, but worth a lot more to the people on Jakku, that's why he is fat, and owns the millennium falcon, while most people on Jakku are starving. He has a comfortable life, and connections, why burn bridges by assaulting Rey?
Why didn't Rey turn in the X-wing helmet? Because she's a fangirl, that's why she knew so much about the rebel alliance.
Also, I hate to be a broken record here, but the EU is not lost forever, this is the Nu52 all over again. Those old comics and novels are still around for you to read. This is the beauty of fiction, there is no 'truth' to it. All of it can be true to you. Sure, you may be upset that some of your favourite adventures won't be continuing, but there's always the possibility of someone writing them down the line.
I just have to say, I'm excited for what's coming. I hope we get some great video games out of it, to go along with the excellent comics and cartoons. Heck, the Star Wars Rebels mobile game is a very decent sidescroller with 6 playable characters that all have different play styles.
One thing I would like to see, but I know I won't:
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In one of the older Dark Horse Star Wars comic, there was a story of how Han & Chewie were being chased by pirates or something and went into hyper-drive. For some reason, they ended up on earth. Han got killed and Chewie ended up being the mysterious Big Foot. Years later the Falcon and Han's remains were found by Indiana Jones. It would have been awesome if they could have done that, especially if there's talk about about a new Indy movie
I saw The Force Awakens opening weekend. I really liked it. Can't wait for more.
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Really enjoyed the new characters, and Han was great.
Kylo Ren was actually the stand out to me. From the trailers I was expecting a Darth Vader-esque big bad, I thought he'd be cool and intimidating but not much else, but instead we get a more human character, someone who is struggling, and I'm curious which direction he'll ultimately go. Is this a redemption story or does he just get worse from here?
I'm sure recreating A New Hope's plot was a very deliberate choice, something to help reintroduce Star Wars, get it back on track. Make it familiar and welcoming. An original plot could have worked but this was a smart (and easy) way to make this film work. I don't expect the sequels to follow Empire and Jedi's plots in any significant way.
I do see where people are coming with Rey's force abilities, and I think that could have been handled better. However I tend to think like Talavar, there may be some explanation coming eventually. Additionally the force is a living thing, I don't discount it giving her a boost in a time of need.
As for the EU, I'm as big a fan of it as anyone but I think letting it go was the smart decision. It's the decision I would make. The problem is that it's a complete saga. Between all the books, comics, games etc they've covered every point in the time line from Luke's life and beyond. There isn't any room to fit in an original film featuring Hamill, Ford, and Fisher while still being a significant story and not breaking the continuity further. Disney's only choices were to jettison it or make adaptations (Or go to the past, or post Legacy) - well there is some room between Fate of the Jedi and Legacy. I'd love to see adaptations of the novels but they'd create their own continuity problems as you try to fit 500 page, multi part novels into 2 hour films.
Sticking to the EU would be creatively restricting for the new film makers, and going this way gives flexibility to create new stories for the audience to enjoy. Hopefully they learn from the EU about what worked and what didn't. Personally I think it would be cool if some specific characters made it into the new continuity but we'll see.
And the Legends canon is still there as an alternate history. I expect Spade is right and eventually we'll see new works in that canon as well. Personally I just picked up the complete Star Wars Legacy comic, and I'm excited to read through that.
Quote from: JeyNyce on December 29, 2015, 08:20:07 PM
One thing I would like to see, but I know I won't:
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In one of the older Dark Horse Star Wars comic, there was a story of how Han & Chewie were being chased by pirates or something and went into hyper-drive. For some reason, they ended up on earth. Han got killed and Chewie ended up being the mysterious Big Foot. Years later the Falcon and Han's remains were found by Indiana Jones. It would have been awesome if they could have done that, especially if there's talk about about a new Indy movie
That's pretty great, but you're right, there's probably not much chance for that.
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During the final scenes on Luke's planet I was thinking "Is that Earth? That'd be quite a twist! Maybe they'll put life on it and that'll show our planet's origins." Then I realized that'd probably be too weird and unnecessary.
@Jey that was Star Wars Tales.Great anthology series.From Darth Vader fighting Darth Maul to Skippy the Jedi droid,there was a lot of cool stuff there.
-Digital I have become.Destroyed your credit ratings I have.
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 29, 2015, 05:41:32 AM
I disagree in the strongest terms, Reep, and I'll post an actual response later. At the moment, let me clarify, as I don't think I was clear enough.
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This movie doesn't stand on its own merits as an objet d'art because it is entirely derivative. That doesn't mean it couldn't succeed in being fun and entertaining when outside of the context of the originals. If you've never read The Odyssey, you'll never notice the parallels in The Aeneid. That doesn't mean they aren't there, though The Aeneid succeeds despite those similarities...
Not for nothing, but the original Star Wars was derivative as well, as are many later iterations of the franchise right up to the Clone Wars cartoons and Rebels (and if we're honest, probably like 99% of all fiction made since most of us were born).
QuoteAlso, I hate to be a broken record here, but the EU is not lost forever, this is the Nu52 all over again. Those old comics and novels are still around for you to read. This is the beauty of fiction, there is no 'truth' to it. All of it can be true to you. Sure, you may be upset that some of your favourite adventures won't be continuing, but there's always the possibility of someone writing them down the line.
I would just like to take this opportunity to point out the following in response to this post:
1. Disney was, to varying degrees, responsible for shutting down a few Star Wars online games and mobile games. In those cases, no, I actually can't go back and play them. They also cancelled, among other things, 1313, which was shaping up to be one of the best looking Star Wars games in years and one of my personal most anticipated games at the time.
2. I also just found out that rights issues may prevent the final season of Clone Wars to be released in a complete set with the first five seasons for the time being.
3. We
still don't have the un-altered original trilogy on Blu-Ray, despite the fact that a fan-made version made for free now exists, and last I checked the DVD sets that included the original laserdisc versions (which I own) are out of print.
You probably heard this one before,but could Supreme Leader Snoke actually be
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Jar Jar Binks? :o
https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w (https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w)
That theory actually makes sense when explained like that.Or at least I can believe that he was intended as a hidden villain.The real Phantom Menace.
Saw it last weekend finally. I really liked it.
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Looking over the last page of comments, the biggest point of contention seems to be that it's basically a carbon copy of the first film. However, while I won't try to deny that, I'm not really bothered by it either. I watched a couple reviews of the film after the fact, and one of them pointed out that after years of the god-awful prequels and fan disappointment, Abrams and crew needed to prove that they could deliver a quintessential Star Wars film before being able to move forward with something wholly new. Now, that's not to say this approach doesn't create some serious problems... since the movie is such a carbon copy of A New Hope, it telegraphs some of the biggest "twists" early in the film, which took a lot of the shock out of what should have been important events.
That being said, there are some weak elements in this film. By far the biggest problems are the villains. I don't mind Kylo Ren necessarily, but Smoke is... boring. He just feels like a weaker version of Palpatine. There's nothing about him that feels new or threatening. That would be fine enough, but because Kylo Ren is also less threatening than Vader was, you need a stronger primary villain to give the movies more tension.
Quote from: Tomato on January 05, 2016, 06:37:11 AM
Saw it last weekend finally. I really liked it.
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Looking over the last page of comments, the biggest point of contention seems to be that it's basically a carbon copy of the first film. However, while I won't try to deny that, I'm not really bothered by it either. I watched a couple reviews of the film after the fact, and one of them pointed out that after years of the god-awful prequels and fan disappointment, Abrams and crew needed to prove that they could deliver a quintessential Star Wars film before being able to move forward with something wholly new. Now, that's not to say this approach doesn't create some serious problems... since the movie is such a carbon copy of A New Hope, it telegraphs some of the biggest "twists" early in the film, which took a lot of the shock out of what should have been important events.
That being said, there are some weak elements in this film. By far the biggest problems are the villains. I don't mind Kylo Ren necessarily, but Smoke is... boring. He just feels like a weaker version of Palpatine. There's nothing about him that feels new or threatening. That would be fine enough, but because Kylo Ren is also less threatening than Vader was, you need a stronger primary villain to give the movies more tension.
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totally agree about Snoke. So far, he's just very two dimensional. No motive, no background, nothing. Since it wasn't made clear how powerful or fragile either the first order or the new republic actually are, we're not even all that sure of the threat he presents.
My hope is that he turns out to be a bit of a Big Brother/Wizard of Oz character. Just an evil looking front for something even more evil. If I were writing it, I'd even go as far as to reveal that he doesn't actually exist, but still managed to fool everyone.
I can't wait for the next one, Rian Johnson is such a unique and interesting director while still making very enjoyable movies. I'm one of a few JJ Abrams fans in the world, but I think switching directors is a great move. With Rian Johnson in the lead, I have no worries that VIII will be an Empire clone, though it will probably similarly be amazing.
Quote from: Reepicheep on January 05, 2016, 01:55:59 PM
Quote from: Tomato on January 05, 2016, 06:37:11 AM
Saw it last weekend finally. I really liked it.
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Looking over the last page of comments, the biggest point of contention seems to be that it's basically a carbon copy of the first film. However, while I won't try to deny that, I'm not really bothered by it either. I watched a couple reviews of the film after the fact, and one of them pointed out that after years of the god-awful prequels and fan disappointment, Abrams and crew needed to prove that they could deliver a quintessential Star Wars film before being able to move forward with something wholly new. Now, that's not to say this approach doesn't create some serious problems... since the movie is such a carbon copy of A New Hope, it telegraphs some of the biggest "twists" early in the film, which took a lot of the shock out of what should have been important events.
That being said, there are some weak elements in this film. By far the biggest problems are the villains. I don't mind Kylo Ren necessarily, but Smoke is... boring. He just feels like a weaker version of Palpatine. There's nothing about him that feels new or threatening. That would be fine enough, but because Kylo Ren is also less threatening than Vader was, you need a stronger primary villain to give the movies more tension.
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totally agree about Snoke. So far, he's just very two dimensional. No motive, no background, nothing. Since it wasn't made clear how powerful or fragile either the first order or the new republic actually are, we're not even all that sure of the threat he presents.
My hope is that he turns out to be a bit of a Big Brother/Wizard of Oz character. Just an evil looking front for something even more evil. If I were writing it, I'd even go as far as to reveal that he doesn't actually exist, but still managed to fool everyone.
Guy is a hologram of Voldemort.There is a good chance hes a fake.
Or he could actually be
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Darth Plagueis.They say he did cheat death.
Or hes Palpatine himself,who somehow survived(wouldn't be the first time).Could be that Kylo Ren plans to kill him,thus "he will finish what Vader started".
Because of Rogue One, I've had Star Wars on the brain for the past few days, and I was just struck by something that codified one of my strongest problems with The Force Awakens. Plenty of ink has been spilled about how Abrams reset the the entire Star Wars universe, on a practical level, to where it was after the first film. You've got more or less the same situation, with an outnumbered and outgunned resistance opposing a powerful and ruthless government headed by mysterious figures. It's as much of a rehash as all of the various copied moments from the first film.
Even worse, though, it just occurred to me that Abrams also undid three movies and around a decade of character development for the original characters. In TFA they are in almost precisely the same places they were at the beginning of the first film. Han and Chewie are scraping by in a marginal existence as smugglers, hunted by their creditors. Leia has lost much and is waging a lonely battle against the Empire/First Order. Luke is on an isolated, desert world, dreaming of more. They've regressed. The only differences are they are now older and sadder. What a pointless journey, even aside from how much I hated some of the particulars.
Just remember Benton, as much as I personally liked the film, The Force Awakens was more of "A New Hope Redux" than its own film (and before anybody gets mad, it did have some of its own elements, but it was pretty much a rehash). Probably why the old cast are pretty much the way they were back in the 70's.
Gotta admit, I can't help but to wonder if Episode VIII will just be a rehash of ESB... again with very little deviation.
I kinda doubt it. True, we'll get some of the superficial "this is the second movie in a trilogy" commonalities because ESB is pretty much the gold standard for how a second movie works, but you have to remember: There's a REASON that VII was basically a rehash of IV. VII had to recapture the magic of Star Wars for an audience that had grown hyper-critical and downright antagonistic towards the franchise after a set of prequels that were poorly paced, poorly edited, and poorly directed. VII had to prove that a new creative team could capture the spark that made the originals great again and to do that... it cheated. It copied plot elements wholesale from IV and regressed characters to a point where we'd recognise them and the series again. And let's be clear here: As much as we may deride them for that, IT WORKED.
But now? They've re-established the franchise, and have now proved that even a spin-off movie about characters that we've never heard of can be a financial success. They now have the freedom to break away from the original formula, which I do think was always the plan.
Magic-Im not so sure about,but it did recapture the hype of the prequels for sure.
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 21, 2016, 10:57:10 PM
Because of Rogue One, I've had Star Wars on the brain for the past few days, and I was just struck by something that codified one of my strongest problems with The Force Awakens. Plenty of ink has been spilled about how Abrams reset the the entire Star Wars universe, on a practical level, to where it was after the first film. You've got more or less the same situation, with an outnumbered and outgunned resistance opposing a powerful and ruthless government headed by mysterious figures. It's as much of a rehash as all of the various copied moments from the first film.
Even worse, though, it just occurred to me that Abrams also undid three movies and around a decade of character development for the original characters. In TFA they are in almost precisely the same places they were at the beginning of the first film. Han and Chewie are scraping by in a marginal existence as smugglers, hunted by their creditors. Leia has lost much and is waging a lonely battle against the Empire/First Order. Luke is on an isolated, desert world, dreaming of more. They've regressed. The only differences are they are now older and sadder. What a pointless journey, even aside from how much I hated some of the particulars.
I don't think that's an entirely fair assessment, Benton. As TFA opens, the First Order, while outgunning the Resistance, only controls a small part of the galaxy and is reported as being significantly weaker than the New Republic. Despite the surgical strike suffered in TFA, the New Republic should still be stronger--and definitively on the Resistance side, unlike in TFA. Any engagements in Episode 8 should be on much more equal footing than anything we saw in the original trilogy.
Really, we don't know anything about Luke's motives. We hear what others say about him, but that's all their supposition--it's not like they've been chatting. Anything I propose is purely supposition, but so is your statement about him. Han and Leia's developments, while said, also ring very true. They've essentially lost a child before TFA opens, and how they react to that is very human.
Finally, describing the characters' journey as pointless because everything didn't work out awesome forever always is shortsighted. Han and Leia must have had some good years in there, maybe a couple of decades worth. But as much as there are real world reasons we're not seeing those years, there are narrative ones as well--the series isn't call Star Raising a Troubled Teen, after all.
The Force Awakens isn't perfect, but to write it off as merely a reset, and the characters' journeys as pointless because at various points in 30 years time they've encountered further setbacks and difficulties, is both reductive and reactionary.
Quote from: Spade on December 22, 2016, 10:29:46 AM
Magic-Im not so sure about,but it did recapture the hype of the prequels for sure.
With the noteworthy distinction that people actually like the Force Awakens.
People did like the prequels at the time.Anybody who said they walked out in the middle of Phantom Menace is lying.But the farther away we got,the worst they became.
And a year away from TFA,people are a lot more objective about it then last year.And the truth is,its a really lazy movie.Just saying.
Not necessarily. We may not have walked out, but while my friends and I were fairly young (10-ish) and liked it fine, I remember our group walking out of the theater and my dad (who was escorting us) just being like "That was just awful. That was so bad." and every time my friend would make comments about how good it was, he'd be like "no. It is really awful."
Again, I'm not going to defend TFA for what it is: I outright admit that it steals plot points straight from ANH. However, I do see enough new concepts for the future films to play off of, so I do not think it's fair to condemn future sequels before we've seen them. TFA did what it did to earn trust back, and now Disney has it and can go forth and do new stuff.
Quote from: Spade on December 22, 2016, 03:14:03 PM
People did like the prequels at the time.Anybody who said they walked out in the middle of Phantom Menace is lying.But the farther away we got,the worst they became.
And a year away from TFA,people are a lot more objective about it then last year.And the truth is,its a really lazy movie.Just saying.
The Force Awakens is lazy with the plot, no question. But it handled characters, characterization, dialogue, FX choices and production design beautifully. The prequels actually have a very interesting and unique plot, but nearly every element is either terrible, out of keeping with Star Wars as a whole, or both.
And people knew the prequels were bad right away. Sure, it was hard to accept, coming out of an opening night screening of the Phantom Menace, but by the home video release, all but the hardest of hardcore Star Wars fans, and kids, who aren't discerning, had realized it was bad.
I think that's what's so upsetting to a lot of fans about the prequels: it's not just that they're bad, but that you can see this fascinating story bungled with poor direction for the actors (there's a lot of top-notch talent in the Prequels who are giving the worst performances of their lives or just squandered), and bad production choices (as well as a serious laziness about lining up with original movies).
On the TFA front,I have to say I found everyone there pretty bland.And dont even get me started on the villains
On the prequels,I mostly agree.I remember after Phantom Menace,everyone thought it was awesome(mostly for the Darth Maul scenes),but rewatching the movie you find there is a lot less Darth Maul and a lot more pod racing then you remember.And the Jesus metaphor isnt really subtle.But still,its not as bad as people claim,but its not good either.
Its just that we have the benefit of the hindsight there,as opposed to the current movie.Which will probably never end,because this is pretty much MCU 2.0.
I don't know. I would say more "safe" than "lazy". More care went into TFA than the prequels with more attention to detail, practical props, and a somewhat decent script. A lot of the (main) characters were likeable, had quite a good amount of personality, and much of the interactions between the main cast were actually enjoyale to watch (plot armor aside in some cases).
The thing is, a lot of the movie was doing what A New Hope did, almost scene for scene in a lot of cases. It was a smart move (financially) on Disney's side in that they didn't really risk a lot on trying to come up with anything genuinely new while still pumping tons of production into bringing characters and sets that people will actually want to watch over and over.
As for the next movie, since TFA has already gain ed the trust of a HUGE amount of Star Wars fans, I think that Episode VIII will be where we see more divergence and actually attempt to grow the Star Wars universe into something new. At least, that's my hope for the franchise.
EDIT: BLAST! Just saw an extra page and that Talavar has essentially posted what I did. Curse my unawareness!
Safe is a good way to describe it, and I think we're seeing Disney move beyond the safety zone with Rogue One. Its got its own thread, but they definitely didn't stick to safe decisions there.
Wow, y'all are being more merciful than that film deserves. It was fun to watch, but it was a very flawed movie.
Quote from: Talavar on December 22, 2016, 02:27:09 PM
I don't think that's an entirely fair assessment, Benton. As TFA opens, the First Order, while outgunning the Resistance, only controls a small part of the galaxy and is reported as being significantly weaker than the New Republic. Despite the surgical strike suffered in TFA, the New Republic should still be stronger--and definitively on the Resistance side, unlike in TFA. Any engagements in Episode 8 should be on much more equal footing than anything we saw in the original trilogy.
Except, that's completely not borne out by the film. One of the many flaws with this movie is that the setting doesn't make sense with what the opening scrawl describes. Despite supposedly not having the resources of the Empire, the First Order creates a PLANET SIZED SUPER WEAPON. Also, we're explicitly told that the entire New Republic fleet was destroyed, along with the government, when the Order destroyed all those planets. Now, that's intensely stupid, as it makes no sense that their ENTIRE fleet would be in one place, but that's what we're told nonetheless. So, if we DO see a setting with an even footing, it will be in contradiction of the sloppy plot of TFA.
Quote from: Talavar on December 22, 2016, 02:27:09 PM
Really, we don't know anything about Luke's motives. We hear what others say about him, but that's all their supposition--it's not like they've been chatting. Anything I propose is purely supposition, but so is your statement about him. Han and Leia's developments, while said, also ring very true. They've essentially lost a child before TFA opens, and how they react to that is very human.
Nonetheless, they're still in more or less the same spot in life. They've suffered something terrible, so, like I said, they're just sadder and older, but they are still where they were. It's like a Galactic version of
Groundhog Day.
Quote from: Talavar on December 22, 2016, 02:27:09 PM
Finally, describing the characters' journey as pointless because everything didn't work out awesome forever always is shortsighted. Han and Leia must have had some good years in there, maybe a couple of decades worth. But as much as there are real world reasons we're not seeing those years, there are narrative ones as well--the series isn't call Star Raising a Troubled Teen, after all.
The Force Awakens isn't perfect, but to write it off as merely a reset, and the characters' journeys as pointless because at various points in 30 years time they've encountered further setbacks and difficulties, is both reductive and reactionary.
Come now, Tal, I'm not describing the journey as pointless because it didn't 'work out awesome,' I'm describing it that way because it didn't work out at all. The movie undid everything productive about the first three movies, and the growth the characters and the setting experienced through those stories was discarded. I'd call that a reset alright. Yeah, the lost child of Han and Leia is something new, even interesting, but it comes at the expense of everything else. We don't even see much done with it because they have a grand total of one scene together. Having setbacks is one thing. Facing tragedy is one thing. The unforgivable part of the film for me was not just that it made all of my favorite characters miserable, but that it did so by reversing everything they had already done. Conflict is in the nature of story, but it didn't have to be this way.
Quote from: Talavar on December 22, 2016, 05:09:27 PM
The Force Awakens is lazy with the plot, no question. But it handled characters, characterization, dialogue, FX choices and production design beautifully. The prequels actually have a very interesting and unique plot, but nearly every element is either terrible, out of keeping with Star Wars as a whole, or both.
Characterization was handled pretty well (with some glaring missteps), but character
development was atrocious. The film's great strength (in comparison to the Prequels) was that its characters were actually likable. Yet, neither of them made any sense in the film. They were just as much examples of convenience and coincidence as the plot, and speaking of which....
Quote from: spydermann93 on December 22, 2016, 07:27:28 PM
I don't know. I would say more "safe" than "lazy". More care went into TFA than the prequels with more attention to detail, practical props, and a somewhat decent script. A lot of the (main) characters were likeable, had quite a good amount of personality, and much of the interactions between the main cast were actually enjoyale to watch (plot armor aside in some cases).
Spyder, I don't think there's any defense of the film as anything OTHER than lazy. The writing (in regards to plot rather than dialog, for the most part) was a master class in lazy plotting and problem solving. In fact, I'll probably use it as an example of how not to solve story problems in creative writing class.
It's a fun movie to watch, but it's a modern blockbuster, specifically, a modern blockbuster by Abrams, which means it's all show and now stay.
The problem with describing the film as "safe" is that you're effectively just explaining its mediocrity without excusing it. Safety is why we're seeing remake after remake, rather than original ideas. It makes sense financially, but it doesn't make the art any better. This movie, as a movie, was quite mediocre. As a Star Wars film, it doesn't even qualify since it is just a sad remake of the first one. Even worse, safe doesn't have to be a COMPLETE rehash. You could have accomplished the same safety by recreating the feel of the first movie without just remaking it.
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 23, 2016, 04:59:32 AM
Wow, y'all are being more merciful than that film deserves. It was fun to watch, but it was a very flawed movie.
Flawed, yes. But I don't think I was being too merciful. Like I said, while they didn't do anything exactly new and the plot was essentially A New Hope all over again, but they still put enough effort into making the film enjoyable and at least tried to be respectful to the original trilogy.
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 23, 2016, 04:59:32 AMExcept, that's completely not borne out by the film. One of the many flaws with this movie is that the setting doesn't make sense with what the opening scrawl describes. Despite supposedly not having the resources of the Empire, the First Order creates a PLANET SIZED SUPER WEAPON. Also, we're explicitly told that the entire New Republic fleet was destroyed, along with the government, when the Order destroyed all those planets. Now, that's intensely stupid, as it makes no sense that their ENTIRE fleet would be in one place, but that's what we're told nonetheless. So, if we DO see a setting with an even footing, it will be in contradiction of the sloppy plot of TFA.
Agreed, the whole government and it's fleet being destroyed in one go was kind of dumb (even though the same kind of thing happened when Death Star II and Palpatine blew up). I really don't like that the good guys are called the "Resistance" when they work for the government in power. I really don't get that. Perhaps they mentioned something about it in the movie, but I guess I missed it.
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 23, 2016, 04:59:32 AMSpyder, I don't think there's any defense of the film as anything OTHER than lazy. The writing (in regards to plot rather than dialog, for the most part) was a master class in lazy plotting and problem solving. In fact, I'll probably use it as an example of how not to solve story problems in creative writing class.
It's a fun movie to watch, but it's a modern blockbuster, specifically, a modern blockbuster by Abrams, which means it's all show and now stay.
The problem with describing the film as "safe" is that you're effectively just explaining its mediocrity without excusing it. Safety is why we're seeing remake after remake, rather than original ideas. It makes sense financially, but it doesn't make the art any better. This movie, as a movie, was quite mediocre. As a Star Wars film, it doesn't even qualify since it is just a sad remake of the first one. Even worse, safe doesn't have to be a COMPLETE rehash. You could have accomplished the same safety by recreating the feel of the first movie without just remaking it.
To be fair, I was describing it as "safe" as an explanation and nothing more. I wasn't exactly using "safe" as a defense, more of just a "better" description than "lazy". I'm not saying it was good because it was a safe movie to make; I was saying that it was safe because it wasn't a risky movie to produce. Although, I still thought that the movie was fun enough. Worth the movie ticket and popcorn I paid for, imho, even if only for the aesthetics of the film. :P
I will say though, I completely understand why you don't like this movie. The plot wasn't anything ground-breaking and to go in tandem with your "it's a modern blockbuster", we've seen this movie before, but it does have some neat characters in it and the Memetrooper, lol
There is another thing,originally the conflict lasted some 19 years more after RotJ,till a peace was achived and the Empire(a lot smaller one thou) continued to coexist with the New Republic.Here it took a few months for the Empire to completely fall apart.Which doesn't make a lot of sense,as usual.
Yeah,that's the detail that's been bothering-why Resistance?They are in power now and the First Order is a terrorist organization.That can build Death Star XXL without anyone noticing.Somehow.
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 23, 2016, 04:59:32 AM
Except, that's completely not borne out by the film. One of the many flaws with this movie is that the setting doesn't make sense with what the opening scrawl describes. Despite supposedly not having the resources of the Empire, the First Order creates a PLANET SIZED SUPER WEAPON. Also, we're explicitly told that the entire New Republic fleet was destroyed, along with the government, when the Order destroyed all those planets. Now, that's intensely stupid, as it makes no sense that their ENTIRE fleet would be in one place, but that's what we're told nonetheless. So, if we DO see a setting with an even footing, it will be in contradiction of the sloppy plot of TFA.
The superweapon in TFA would take significantly fewer resources than a Death Star. It's planet-sized because it's a planet they weaponized, rather than the purely constructed Death Stars. As to the New Republic fleet being destroyed, I agree it's a bit dumb, but they're also at peace. The Old Republic from the prequels had no fleet at all, or soldiers (excluding jedi). Now that the First Order has effectively had its Pearl Harbour moment, I'd expect the New Republic to ramp up and reconcile with the fringe Resistance.
Quote
Come now, Tal, I'm not describing the journey as pointless because it didn't 'work out awesome,' I'm describing it that way because it didn't work out at all. The movie undid everything productive about the first three movies, and the growth the characters and the setting experienced through those stories was discarded. I'd call that a reset alright. Yeah, the lost child of Han and Leia is something new, even interesting, but it comes at the expense of everything else. We don't even see much done with it because they have a grand total of one scene together. Having setbacks is one thing. Facing tragedy is one thing. The unforgivable part of the film for me was not just that it made all of my favorite characters miserable, but that it did so by reversing everything they had already done. Conflict is in the nature of story, but it didn't have to be this way.
Reversing everything they've done? All but a remnant of the Empire has been defeated for decades. That's a pretty big accomplishment that doesn't get undone. We're seeing an evil resurgence here, but that doesn't invalidate the previous victory.
Quote
Characterization was handled pretty well (with some glaring missteps), but character development was atrocious. The film's great strength (in comparison to the Prequels) was that its characters were actually likable. Yet, neither of them made any sense in the film. They were just as much examples of convenience and coincidence as the plot, and speaking of which....
Personally, I enjoyed the character development of the new characters, and thought they largely made sense within the context of the story. I agree that there's a measure of coincidence, but Star Wars always has had that. In a universe with explicit destiny/higher power guidance, I'm okay with that more than in other franchises/settings.
QuoteThere is another thing,originally the conflict lasted some 19 years more after RotJ,till a peace was achived and the Empire(a lot smaller one thou) continued to coexist with the New Republic.Here it took a few months for the Empire to completely fall apart.Which doesn't make a lot of sense,as usual.
Yeah,that's the detail that's been bothering-why Resistance?They are in power now and the First Order is a terrorist organization.That can build Death Star XXL without anyone noticing.Somehow.
Spade, the Resistance wanted to keep fighting the Empire remnants while the New Republic wanted to make peace. They're a fringe group, not the government--which is why their resources are limited, and why the name.
Personally, I always found the length of time the empire chugged along in the old EU ridiculous. It lasted almost as long without the Emperor as it did with him. The Empire, despite the name, was really just a dictatorship--there was no mechanism for succession, no long history of imperial rule, military enforcement, broad spectrum resistance. It was centered and structured around the Emperor, so it makes sense historically for it not to outlast him by much.
Only,countries and empires dont fall apart in days,or even months.Take the Roman empire.The Golden Horde,Soviet Union...
Who ever said the First Order was merely a small Terrorist organization? My impressed was that they were a remnant of the empire that never joined the Republic but reformed as a modified entity. They still build starships and raise soldiers from birth. They probably control several planets at least.
I always figured the Resistance is exactly that. A group from within First Order territory that rebels against them and has been getting support for the Republic without the republic itself being involved. It's pretty obvious that there's barely a difference but it's the kind of techincal difference that still exists today. Russia's basically fighting in the Syrian Civil War now for example without techincally being involved. They are supplying one side with weapons, leadership and logistics, but they aren't technically in there, so the internatinal community politely pretends like they aren't, but everyone knows that they are. Same is true with the US (in the same and other conflicts) and with quite a few other countries too.
Reality is Unrealistic I guess.
Quote from: Spade on December 23, 2016, 06:09:19 PM
Only,countries and empires dont fall apart in days,or even months.Take the Roman empire.The Golden Horde,Soviet Union...
But that's exactly my point--the Empire isn't like the Roman Empire, not to mention that lots of countries have fallen apart in days or months.
Sure, the Roman Empire took centuries to fall, but that's because it had a weight of centuries behind it. The Empire in Star Wars is much more of a dictatorship like Nazi Germany, and so many other small tin pot ones. They're built by a small core group and propped up by military force, and most of which fell hard and fast once the leader in question was gone. Even the Soviet Union, which survived numerous succession crises, fell fast once it started.
Think about it: the Empire had had no rulers but the Emperor, with presumably Vader as heir-apparent. Rogue One gives us a nice example of what happens to overly ambitious Imperial officers. We're told in Star Wars that the senate has been done away with, with the Emperor counting on local military governors to rule, backed up by the fleet and Death Star. With the Death Star(s) gone, the fleet divided/on the run, systems are going to be rebelling left and right. Things would snowball quickly--as more star systems go over to the Rebellion/New Republic, the empire remnants get weaker and the New Republic gets stronger. There's no clear successor to the emperor, so high ranking governors/admirals could very well end up fighting each other with whatever troops and ships are loyal to them personally.
You do realise a civil war after Emperors death doesnt translate into years of peace?
If we are talking in realpolitik terms here-Uncle Sam carpet bombs people because they MIGHT have weapons of mass destruction,the Republic doesnt give a cr@p that they have Death Star XXL right around the corner.
Also,why leave a very similar design flaw when building the thing?Again?
You'd think that at some point the Empire (or any affiliated group) would learn that Death Stars are a bad idea....
At this point, I almost think the end of the franchise should have the bad guys build a Death Star in the same system/galaxy that their base is in, only for the heroes to hijack the Death Star and use it to blow that planet up. Or crash the Death Star into it. And its made abundantly clear that all the bad guys are on the planet when it happens.
At least it wasn't advertised as the first Death Star EVER. :rolleyes:
And coming from the people who apparently produced the first SW comics ever(Forgetting even Marvels own),and invented the concept of female villains,thats some self-control.
I cant wait for the next reboot in a few years.Then the same people will convincing us that its the first copy of New Hope ever.And that TFA and Rogue One were never canon.
Quote from: Spade on December 24, 2016, 06:41:38 AM
You do realise a civil war after Emperors death doesnt translate into years of peace?
If we are talking in realpolitik terms here-Uncle Sam carpet bombs people because they MIGHT have weapons of mass destruction,the Republic doesnt give a cr@p that they have Death Star XXL right around the corner.
Also,why leave a very similar design flaw when building the thing?Again?
No, but an Imperial civil war happening during a war with the Rebellion/nascent New Republic would help both end very quickly.
As to TFA, it doesn't really give us any insight into what the New Republic government/military think or are doing. We spend no time with them. They may not have realized the construction (remember, it was on a pre-existing planet) was a Death Star-style superweapon.
Quote from: Spade on December 24, 2016, 02:31:24 PM
At least it wasn't advertised as the first Death Star EVER. :rolleyes:
And coming from the people who apparently produced the first SW comics ever(Forgetting even Marvels own),and invented the concept of female villains,thats some self-control.
I cant wait for the next reboot in a few years.Then the same people will convincing us that its the first copy of New Hope ever.And that TFA and Rogue One were never canon.
I don't understand what you're talking about here, except to point out that the Star Wars universe hasn't been rebooted a first time, so talking about the next reboot is nonsensical.
For somebody who hated Dark Empire,you sure forgot a lot of it.
Again,things dont work out that way.Germany didnt fell in one battle.It took Stalingrad,Kursk,El Alamein,Normandy...
To summarize,RotJ was the D-day,but it wasnt the final battle.The war still went on,except in Disneys take.The notion that the entire Imperial army just gave up after the Emperor died is cartoonish.
And dont be surprised when another reboot happens in a few year.And once again,people like you will be there to convince us it all sucked from the start.And how THEY knew it.
Guys, chill a bit.
Force Awakens is a safe, uninteresting, and in some regards lazy film that still has some cool visual elements and characters that make it more watchable than other films in the franchise. It is not perfect, I would even go so far as to say it wasn't that good as a whole, but I like it in the same way I like mid-level films from other franchises, and I am hopeful that successive films will be better.
As it stands, we can sit here and argue about the number of plot holes and inconsistencies in this film until the day we die: Star Wars fans have been doing that with every film ever since the original trilogy. Wah, Ewoks, wah Jar Jar, wah midichlorians. Yes, I think we'll all look back at them with a more critical eye later: This is the nature of film today in general. While I can honestly say I still think TDK is my favorite Batman film (due mostly to Harvey Dent being my favorite villain and his role being an integral part of the film), by the time the sequel came out, I was ready for the series to end already and move on to the next reboot. But even with that, I don't regret watching any of the 3 films in that trilogy... nor do I think I'll regret having watched Force Awakens. If nothing else, female protagonists who actually do things in action films gives me the warm fuzzies.
How dare you interfere when two nerds are arguing about something that doesnt concern them personaly and that they have no personal gain from?
Quote from: Spade on December 24, 2016, 05:53:36 PM
For somebody who hated Dark Empire,you sure forgot a lot of it.
Again,things dont work out that way.Germany didnt fell in one battle.It took Stalingrad,Kursk,El Alamein,Normandy...
To summarize,RotJ was the D-day,but it wasnt the final battle.The war still went on,except in Disneys take.The notion that the entire Imperial army just gave up after the Emperor died is cartoonish.
And dont be surprised when another reboot happens in a few year.And once again,people like you will be there to convince us it all sucked from the start.And how THEY knew it.
Do you read posts before you respond? At this point I have to assume not, but just in case--point to where I said the Imperial army would give up. Flung into chaos and disarray, sure. Easier to deal with while worried about rebelling populaces and infighting, also true. But the idiotic version you evidently prefer is the equivalent of WWII going on for twenty years after Hitler died in his bunker. First, the Empire rallied around Thrawn, then the resurrected Emperor, then some other admiral, then some other admiral and on and on--they had more rallies than a high school football team. It was nonsensical.
More evidence of you not reading posts:
Star Wars has never been rebooted, as I already said. Because Star Wars is a series of films, one the new movies continue from. Before you cry about the old EU, well, it wasn't the first kick at the can either. Ever read
Splinter in the Mind's Eye? It got invalidated by a little film called Empire Strikes Back. Or the old Marvel Star Wars comics? Wiped out ages ago when Marvel lost the license. As much as Lucasfilm claimed the EU was canon, it didn't stop the Prequels from contradicting it from the get go. And I'm sure (and also have said repeatedly in these posts you apparently don't read) Disney will eventually contradict their own new EU, because the movies always come first. Some cartoon, book or comic book isn't going to stop what they want to do in film.
And that's as it should be. People like me will be there to tell you it sucked, because--and here's a lesson you should have learned as a teenager--most media tie-ins suck. Most Star Wars tie-ins suck. Most Star Trek tie-ins suck. Same goes for Doctor Who. At least the other big franchises don't try and pretend it's all canon though. Sure, Disney's been paying a high attention to quality so far, but Rebels is mediocre with some good parts, a lot of the novels have not been particularly well reviewed, some of the comics have been good, and others have been weak--but eventually that attention will falter under the sheer mass of material as they churn out book after book, comic after comic, etc. It's what happened to the old EU, which again you apparently missed, I said started well with the Heir to the Empire/Timothy Zahn books (it just went wrong very quickly).
Your accusing other people of not reading responses?Oh,the irony.
Also,thanks for opening our eyes,wise neckbeard.Really,thanks for sharing the red pill with the rest of us.
Now, now the insulting and such is really not what this community is about. Also, Tomato already nicely asked you guys to chill, and he is a Titan, so that means chill.
1)Does Titan mean hes a moderator?
2)I dont need anyone to explain me what I should have stopped liking as a teenager.Its insulting and condesending,to say the least.
3)I said what I had to say and Im ending this.Everyone is free to like whatever they want,but dont tell me what I should like.
Titan does mean you should listen when they advise, whether or not they are moderators. They share similar roles.
Be civil, folks, and take some time away if you need to cool off. There's nothing worth getting angry about here.
I always seem to pop into these heated discussions right after folks have been told to chill out. Maybe that's for the best. I'd just like to say I don't agree with some of the sentiments expressed (I made my feelings on the EU clear earlier) But I do want to respect the rules of this forum and I do think being more polite and diplomatic would yield better results for everyone. I'm glad we've been pretty good at keeping things from getting too ugly.
Getting back to the Force Awakens, I quite enjoyed it the first time, and I still enjoyed it the second time. As I've said before, I don't have a problem TFA being derivative because 1) Star Wars was always derivative, and 2) It's a continuation. It's strictly a continuation to the movies and not the EU at large, but I think I'm ok with that too. To me it's no different than James Bond, or the various Superhero properties. If I can read and enjoy DC stories that are no longer in the primary canon, then the same is true for Star Wars. As for the newer tie-ins, from what I've seen they seem to be trying to make do the best they can. The Marvel Star Wars comics have boasted pretty high profile talent, and while I haven't read a lot, what I have read I liked (I haven't read the new novels, so I can't speak to the quality of those). Yeah, the lore will probably deteriorate with time.
On the topic of the Prequels, I saw them in junior high and high school, and I enjoyed them on a superficial level but was pretty aware they weren't as good as the originals (I remember saying the characters weren't as likable and that C-3PO was superior to Jar-Jar as a comic relief character). I explained them with a more critical eye when it became trendy to do so aka when a friend showed me the Red Letter Media reviews. Personally I take the Moviebob route: the Phantom Menance and the other two are technically imperfect action movies that blow it in the story and character department. No different than any number of other crummy blockbusters (some of which people enjoy with the right amount of camp or irony. Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, for example). I haven't actually watched any of them in at least 10 years, but I guarantee you if I do I won't hate them. If anything I might swing slightly the other direction just because I find the prequel hating a bit overblown (I'm trying to attack anyone here for their own opinions, I'm just saying that how I feel).
Honestly, though? I just really like Star Wars. I'm pretty easy to please in that regard. I've enjoyed the novels that most would put in the "bad" pile (as I've mentioned), I've enjoyed "bad" Star Wars video games, and I can enjoy the kind of fanservice that Rogue One, for example, is full of. I'm a fan so Disney wants to throw fanservice my way I'm probably not going to complain unless there's just something storywise I really dislike and so far I'm not there yet.
What he said...
I'll add, as a student of history with a career in politics, that has also been the part of Star Wars that really got me.
Moreover, the Empire's transition to the First Order would make more sense from a historical perspective. And it make sense for an entire galaxy to have multiple governing bodies, New Republic and a First Order and possibly other non-allied states/systems. The Resistance would be more like historically speaking Contras or Mujahideen from previous U.S. backed rebels or like U.S. backed Syrian rebels today.
Maybe the First Order and New Republic are in something of a Cold War and the the Republic is using the Resistance as a bit of a proxy war... that would make sense.
.... So Carrie Fisher has just passed away...
"Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not." - Master Yoda
Quote from: detourne_me on December 27, 2016, 06:19:45 PM
.... So Carrie Fisher has just passed away...
"Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not." - Master Yoda
Very sad news. When I heard about her heart attack, I had hoped, since she was only 60, that she would recover. This has been a hell of a year. I can't wait to see the back of it.
Quote from: detourne_me on December 27, 2016, 06:19:45 PM
.... So Carrie Fisher has just passed away...
"Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not." - Master Yoda
I just LITERALLY watched that scene on Facebook... Some sage advice.