Skinners listed here have given permission for users to alter their existing skins (generally referred to kitbashing (http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=56536.0)) and to distribute said skins to online users.
Rules
- Please credit any artists whose work you use in a text file included with the skin.
- Please contact anyone not listed below before using their content. I will add their decision to this list.
- All artists reserve the right to rescind permission.
Permission Given:3dmaster
AfghanAnt
Atomic Robot
bearded
billdamn22
Bloodshadow
Cyber Burn
daglob
detourne_me
ELECTR0
Flash_22798
JKCarrier
John Jr.
murs47
Podmark (I'd prefer to be informed in advance)
SickAlice
Sioux City Dynamo
Tomato - Permission denied to cranlok
vorelliwiseau
UnkoMan
eluvium
DeniedDeaths Jester (Will listen to requests)
IPS
Matrix (as he is no longer with us we will be respecting his inability to express a decision)
Paradox (as he is no longer with us we will be respecting his inability to express a decision)
the_ultimate_evil
Two things:
1) I think that Tomato's Kittbashing 101 (http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=56536.0) should have this list linked within it
and
2) I think that this thread should be stickied so that there is little chance of anybody not seeing it.
Just for safety :P
That's a fair point, but I'm gonna hold off on that for a bit because we're debating having a single list rather than two separate ones. I did notify the mods to sticky this thread for the moment though.
Add me to the list if you don't mind Podmark. I'll be uploading some newer skins as well as a few older ones to my blog in the next day or two.
[Added link to stickied kitbashing post and stickied this thread.]
Yes, I give permission to kitbash my skins. :thumbup:
That's a no for me...sorry, blokes ye got to ask me for permission.
I give permission for anyone to kittbash my skins (like, who is gonna wanna kittbash a skin of someone you never heard of?).
I began as someone who did kittbashes so, on account of this and the hope that we will get some new content and contributers, I give my permission as well.
Ok, this was really a tough decision to make. In regards to Flash_22798, I will put his skins on the "Yes" list. I know that he started skinning by kittbashing, and he taught me to skin by letting me kittbash his skins. As I said, this was a difficult decision to make, but when he gave me all of his FF stuff, he told me I could do whatever I wanted with his stuff. But after a lot of thought, this isn't about what I want, it's about trying to do what he would want, and knowing who he was, and the type of person he was, I feel that this is the decision that he would have made.
However, this is conditional:
Only skins that have been released to his Yahoo Groups may be kittbashed. Anything that was sent out by me via E-Mail is off limits.
This is the only rule I have regarding usage of his skins, should this rule be broken, then permission to kittbash his skins will be revoked. I apologize if I am coming across as a jerk here, but his unreleased skins were unreleased for a reason, and even though I have shared some of them, I would prefer that those skins be left unaltered.
Very useful thread, guys. Good idea.
And you can add my skins to the "Permission Given" list.
you guys can do anything you wish to my models and skins. i made that stuff /converted them all for the community
Stupid question time:
Is it considered Kittbashing if you use someone else's textures from a Skin (Let's say AA's "Mjolnir.dds" texture from his "Thor Reborn" Skin) when creating an FX. This would be without altering the texture File, while also making sure that credit of some sort was given.
And I'm just using AA as an example, I know he's on the permission given list, but I'm curious as to what the general consensus is as a whole, especially in regards to someone like C6 (Again, just an example) who hasn't been active for quite a while.
Quote from: Cyber Burn on July 06, 2014, 04:24:13 AM
Stupid question time:
Is it considered Kittbashing if you use someone else's textures from a Skin (Let's say AA's "Mjolnir.dds" texture from his "Thor Reborn" Skin) when creating an FX. This would be without altering the texture File, while also making sure that credit of some sort was given.
And I'm just using AA as an example, I know he's on the permission given list, but I'm curious as to what the general consensus is as a whole, especially in regards to someone like C6 (Again, just an example) who hasn't been active for quite a while.
In regards to AA's textures, it is kit-bashing, yes, but it is not "prohibited kit-bashing". So I would say that you're good to go :thumbup:
C6's stuff, on the other hand, you'll want to avoid as he did not give explicit permission to use his textures.
Kit-bashing itself is not bad, it's just when you kit-bash things out of materials that you have no permission of using that you will get in trouble.
I would think that using a skin on a mesh or an fx would be acceptable if the creator has given their permission, though the individual creators may say otherwise.
As for creators not on the list, using their work unaltered on an fx...hmm. That's an interesting one. My inclination would be to err on the side of caution and say no.
Quote from: Podmark on July 06, 2014, 04:44:18 AM
I would think that using a skin on a mesh or an fx would be acceptable if the creator has given their permission, though the individual creators may say otherwise.
As for creators not on the list, using their work unaltered on an fx...hmm. That's an interesting one. My inclination would be to err on the side of caution and say no.
Thanks guys, that's what I was thinking, but I wanted to get other members' opinions first.
I'm cool. Don't make money it. Credit any original authors and leave the text files please. Else anything within reason is fair game. Most of mine are C6 bases anyways though so make sure to credit him, though in most cases if you leave the text file that'll be covered already.
How do we feel about adding names to the Allow list if blanket permission was given via email or PM from an artist that doesn't post much?
And should we be adding IPS to the Denied list just in case?
I think several have e-mailed permission, so it should be okay.
Regarding IPS, that is probably a good idea.
In that case, I've got this:
Quote from: Atomic Robot on May 19, 2005, 04:29:42 PM
Heck, I've got no problem with you using my skin however you'd like. go ahead. As far as kitbashing goes, I don't really have a problem with it anyway, as long as somebody doesn't try to pass off my stuff as his or her own.
(For anyone that was following King-Be's Team League thread at the time, I had 'bashed one of his Elvis skins onto a different mesh for one of my teams)
I suppose it would asking too much to get the lists alphabetized? Just to make it easier to find permission if it's there.
Done. Done. And done.
In regards to Flash_22798, currently, I have his permissions set up as: Flash_22798 (skins released to his Yahoo Group only)
Honestly though, I think that needs to be changed. Full permission is given, as long as credit is given where credit is due. Include the Text File so whoever did the Base Skin gets credit, and we're good to go.
And done again!
I know this is old as heck, but I just noticed I'm not on here, and I've always been okay with people kitbashing me if they want.
Good luck!
Done!
So I've been contacted by a relatively new member, cranlox, who has been PMing me about how people posting things to the internet means that those people should EXPECT people to take it and modify it and repost it. It's a conversation that has quickly made me frustrated, angry, and exasperated.
Here's the thing: The reason I made an exception for my stuff was because I learned skinning by kittbashing, and I didn't want anyone to feel like the big bad Tomato was going to come after them for using my stuff, NOT so I could receive rants in my PM box about how everyone should be ok with blatant theft because they dared to post stuff on the internet. As such, cranlox is NOT allowed to touch my content now or going forward, and while I doubt he'd have a reason to do so, I would appreciate it if anyone would report any attempts by him to use any of my content. This goes for my models as well, and I will be posting this exception in the skope thread shortly.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind if new members want to ask me questions about the kittbashing list... this isn't the first time, and I still check in every so often to answer those questions. The reason I'm calling out cranlox is because throughout his interaction with me he was disparaging to and dismissive of creators who asked to be excluded from this list... and while I could care less about defending my own work, I will defend members and friends here like TUE until my keyboard is ripped from my cold, rotting hands.
Well, seeing as folks are using things without asking permission and I require permission to kitt my stuff: anyone that sees any of my stuff being used, report it to me cause at the moment, no one has asked for permission from me on anything.
I put very few limitations on my own work, but I have to agree with you here 'Mato, I'll go into "Assassin" mode when someone disrespects others' Art. I'm kind of disappointed here, I would have hoped that someone who was trying to put in the effort to create, would have a little more respect for the work of others.
Hello! I do not know how he understood what I said, I tried to talk to him. And ended up making a world that did not correspond with what I said.
My point was that it is expected that people steal things on the internet, should not be a problem because of it. That was what I was trying to say, I told him that "it's silly" to fight against that.
Piracy is a common evil and even the biggest industries can not stop it.
I shared everything I tried to contribute and put together learning but someone reported my account as illegal content and I have blocked my mediafire.
I suppose they are things that happen when someone thinks you are "the enemy".
A shame because I had photos of my deceased girlfriend. Believe me, if someone is disappointed, it's me.
Quote from: Tomato on March 15, 2018, 04:58:45 AM
So I've been contacted by a relatively new member, cranlox, who has been PMing me about how people posting things to the internet means that those people should EXPECT people to take it and modify it and repost it. It's a conversation that has quickly made me frustrated, angry, and exasperated.
Quote from: cranlox on March 18, 2018, 05:23:46 AM
And ended up making a world that did not correspond with what I said.
My point was that it is expected that people steal things on the internet, should not be a problem because of it. That was what I was trying to say, I told him that "it's silly" to fight against that.
Piracy is a common evil and even the biggest industries can not stop it.
Given that both you, cranlox, and Tomato have posted to this thread, and have described your respective positions, I see an EXACT correspondence between the two perspectives. I would guess that most others here would see the correspondence as well. I might be wrong on that guess, to be sure, but I am pretty confident in my view.
Yes, cranlox, the internet makes for easy theft of intellectual property. And in the grand scheme of the cosmos, perhaps, a degree of tolerance of such theft needs to be maintained to have the type of access to information and communication that the internet in its current iteration gives to people. However, this little group is only a very, very small corner of the internet, and it is composed entirely of folks volunteering to participate. The admins volunteer, the rank and file volunteer, and of particular importance, those that contribute additional game resources to our beloved Freedom Force volunteer their talents and skill to keep that little electronic love letter to silver age superhero comics vital. Such folks, Tomato being one, though less active as of late, are under no obligation to post their work for others to use. Nor are they under obligation to maintaining any upload that they have had in the past. If you, canlox, want to keep some degree of vitality to the Freedom Force game, which is, after all moving toward 2 decades past its original release, you may wish to keep such philosophical arguments to yourself, and be tolerant of when a community in a very, very small corner of the internet tries to create a framework that grants a degree of respect to content creators who, out of the kindness of their hearts, are giving others access to their work, a framework which also seeks to stem some of the worst inclinations of internet users, at least in some very, very small way, proportionate to the size of the community and the relative importance of that community's interest to the grand scheme of the cosmos.
My two cents.
To Tomato and other content creators that have provided so much added life to my favorite video game, much thanks. Your desire to have your creative work respected with regard to kit-bashing is an eminently reasonable request in my eyes, a very cheap price to pay for the benefit of garnering access to your work. I, for one, am more than happy to respect your views.
My rebuttal:
Yes, the internet allows people a large degree of free reign when it comes to doing whatever they want. But this community, this forum, is built on a certain level of mutual respect... I trust the people here to tell me about use of my work not because they have to, but because I have *earned* that level of respect. Just as many of them have earned mine. You, however, are perfectly content going "lol, why should I care that this took hours from someone who's dedicated a decade to this game. It's on the internet and is thus free with no consequences"
I tried to explain that in all of my responses. That it wasn't a hard rule, but indicative of the mutual respect (or in your case, lack thereof) we have for each other. Disregarding those means you don't care about anyone's wishes but your own, and I don't care for that mentality. And I don't have to tolerate it either.
Its not all that difficult man... Between Murs, Afghan Ant, and all the others on that list, there are PLENTY of peoples work you can pull from without issue. Heck, even though I'm not allowing kittbashes from you, my bases are available, so it's not like you can't reverse engineer most of what I've done.
I think you needed to say "how respectful you are" and "how respectable you are".
IF you want to put me as a villain. I do not care about anything you can think or interpret.
Seeing as the standards on a nifSkoped mesh situation is so fluid and undefined right now, i am going to go ahead and add this as my decision for concerning my skopes standards so there is a written ruling for them.
Like my skins, any standards on anything i skoped - which is most of the stuff still available and done in the past whatever many years - are not kittbashable without my expressed permission.
Edit: This is for the skin work, not the skoped mesh itself. Just in case someone thought otherwise...
Sorry if that honks off some people but i use a few of my works from here in my portfolio and having folks kittbash those skins does run the risk of costing me jobs as a concept artist - would say texture artist too but i've had to put that on hold due to situations beyond my control.
can somebody update the list pls? there's no mention of C6 skins on the list
Because c6 has not said one way or the other. In lieu of that, unless someone gets ahold of him, he is treated as a no, same with anyone who has not given permission.
My original permission stands since it's up and I started making my own bases since that time with the intent people use them so long as they have fun with it.
I open an amendment on C6 when it comes to his base skin packs as he specifically gave permission in the including text file twice to use those and what he intended for those. Naturally I say credit his base in a text file. Also otherwise do not kitbash his other works outside that since as Tomato says he did not express permission for that. Feel free to interject of course.
I mean, yes, but base skins are an exception to kittbash rules already, by their very nature. They're explicitly called out as ok in the kittbash faq I made, along with *unmodified* mesh standard skins.
Quote from: Podmark on November 15, 2013, 02:18:38 AM
Skinners listed here have given permission for users to alter their existing skins (generally referred to kitbashing (http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=56536.0)) and to distribute said skins to online users.
Rules
- Please credit any artists whose work you use in a text file included with the skin.
- Please contact anyone not listed below before using their content. I will add their decision to this list.
- All artists reserve the right to rescind permission.
Permission Given:
3dmaster
AfghanAnt
Atomic Robot
bearded
billdamn22
Bloodshadow
Cyber Burn
daglob
detourne_me
ELECTR0
Flash_22798
JKCarrier
John Jr.
murs47
Podmark (I'd prefer to be informed in advance)
SickAlice
Sioux City Dynamo
Tomato - Permission denied to cranlok
vorelliwiseau
UnkoMan
Denied
Deaths Jester (Will listen to requests)
IPS
Matrix (as he is no longer with us we will be respecting his inability to express a decision)
Paradox (as he is no longer with us we will be respecting his inability to express a decision)
the_ultimate_evil
haven't amde anything yet but if I had I'd give permsission
Quote from: Tomato on September 16, 2022, 01:34:27 AM
I mean, yes, but base skins are an exception to kittbash rules already, by their very nature. They're explicitly called out as ok in the kittbash faq I made, along with *unmodified* mesh standard skins.
I know you know this. Mostly I noted it so as not to confuse new people. Well that and I used his bases a lot of course so for me to give permission for my stuff I have to note his bases in the process is all.
Also I suppose I will weigh on the conversation here while I'm posting. In my opinion if users here ask that you do not kitbash their work or ask that you do not redistribute please honor their request. DJ for example is a veteran of this community which is tight knit, respect him and his request. I work on and off in the industry and what he is saying about how this effects his livelihood holds up, I've dealt with theft of my own art out in the world myself. And if you don't honor it don't be surprised if people are reluctant to meet your own requests on the basis of it later. It really is cut and dry as far I'm concerned. Someone asks you don't do this with their content than oblige them. We have these nice permissions lists for the very reason.
As far as what I give away you are free to use however you wish. That's what I want for that. But I don't speak for anyone else there either and I personally pay attention and honor anyone else's wishes while I'm at it all the same.
so when you say "stealing" what about streaming freedom force on twitch showing the meshes in play? is that a violation? or is it the tgas/nif/kf/ bundle and the editing of the asset itself?
I don't know what you're asking? If you're talking people on twitch using skins that were made by the community... they were made to be played with in-game. If someone's on there with, just for example, a DJ skin that they kittbashed and they're either A. naming DJ and that they kittbashed it, lol, or B. They're claiming credit for having made the whole skin... that might cause some bad blood, and dj might look into legal action, but that's all going to be handled outside of FR. We're not really here to moderate outside the community.
In general Twitch streaming is no different then recording FF and putting the videos on YTube, and that's long been acceptable practice. As long as the skins aren't modified, they're being used as intended: To play the game.
Quote from: eluvium on September 16, 2022, 04:23:33 AM
haven't amde anything yet but if I had I'd give permsission
I've added you to the list.
Wow, been a long time since I've done that.
Thank you Podrick!
Playing with a skin as the creator made it - if they are one of us on the no kittbash list -it in game and streaming the game is perfectly fine, just give credit if someone asks who did the skin (which is probably not something that will happen often as most folks who follow ff know skinners by our distinctive styles).
Now, one thing that seems to be forgotten when it comes to my work and kittbashing is, i am willing to listen to requests of usage of my work for kittbashing releases. Some times i allow it for certain skins, some times i don't - i don't do blanket permission though, it is always a skin by skin basis. Currently only one current board member has asked and received some form of permission to kitt a few select skins of mine and release those said bashes - though am not sure if they have released them or not. That is part of the reason i sometimes come off a bit blunt when i see something that looks very similar to my work - i know who has come to me for permission and to find someone using my stuff without asking the simple question ahead of time rubs me the wrong way. That and i'm just an arse anyways...
Now, who stole my vodka?!?!
:thumbup: