Freedom Reborn

Before I get started on what's probably going to come off as a pretty dismissive summary, I want to say up front that the opening with Batroc the Leaper was cool, if only just to see him in action again. He was one of the cooler additions to Winter Soldier, just making this kinda goofy villain character cool and menacing but still retaining the core parts of his character was something I appreciated, and they made good use of him.

As for the rest... look, I grew up on shows like Monk and Columbo, so I tend to spot tropes and patterns pretty easily... but F+WS is cookie cutter transparent with it's story. John Walker is there to force Sam to take up the shield by the end, likely because he goes too far trying to stop the Flag Smashers (who I'd guess are tied to Zemo in some way). Winter Soldier's arc is to be able to atone for all the harm he's done, and to work with other people again, so he's given a cliche "killed this dude's son" subplot to drive home how bad he was during his brainwashing, without relying on the Stark killings.

Now, I'm still excited to see the show. As someone who takes more of an interest in the visual side, I've been waiting to see Zemo get his proper outfit, and both of the titular characters have MUCH better outfits in this show than in previous outings. I'm also just fine with a lighter "turn your brain off and watch cool action scenes" sort of story this time around. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed to see such cookie cutter story bits and tropes. I don't want any "shock" twists or anything, but I could have done without yet another heavy handed version of the reparations list and the "I killed this man's son" guilt trip that I've seen done multiple times before.   

Torres was the new Falcon in the comics. That's cool. Also the Female Flag Smasher was Enfys Nest in Solo, which amuses me.

It's still fun for me to learn about how the world has changed in the wake of the Blip, with it being the in universe explanation for recognizable topical events.

I was also happy at the Don Cheadle cameo.

I thought Isiah Bradley was really good. And it's always enjoyable to see Daniel Bruhl aka Zemo.

I get that they both have their own baggage, but they're both quite cold to John. Not that he doesn't show his own arse too, but still

Isiah Bradley was a cool surprise. I was a little sad they watered down his origin a bit, but I get the reasons they didn't go that way with it. It was still super cool to see him and Elijah in the episode, and the change does tie him into things more. I've been geeking out about it for a bit, I'm a big fan of Truth and of YA, Patriot in particular.

Little bits of other trivia, Power Broker is the one responsible for John Walkers powers in the comics, and the girl in charge of the Flag Smashers is a gender swapped version of the actual Flag Smasher.

Strangely I didn't even realize that that was Eli. I would guess that the fact that he has appeared sparingly in the comics over the years had a lot to do with it. I'll always remember how great the reveals in the original YA comic were, and the reveal of who Patriot was and who he was related to (and how he gets his powers) was a highlight.

I've always liked the concept of the Power Broker, and I look forward to seeing how that'll play into the story and the MCU. A superpower arms race is always a concept with some legs, and it's a great concept to use here, where people have been trying to forever to replicate Cap's abilities. I joked back when Endgame came out that everyone seemed to stop getting powers during the Blip, but this is a great way to establish people getting powers off screen.

"Truth: Red, White and Black" is probably my all time favorite story period. Book, comicbook, fiction, non-fiction.

I cannot tell you how over the moon I am to see it included.  I would have NEVER dreamed of seeing even a hint of this.

Wow, it resonated with you that much, eh?

Haven't read it. Maybe I should take a peek at it. You have mah curiosity.

Not sure what to even say about this week's episode. Lot's of good stuff, like making Zemo a Baron again and giving him some interesting character stuff. I'm kinda worried that given what they heard Zemo is going to go after Isaiah (he heard about how the new serum was made and was present when Sam mentioned him). Could be their setup for Eli getting his powers (taking the bullet for his grandfather), which does mean we'd skip out on his arc with the MGH/equivalent... but while it's good character stuff, I'd be just as happy to skip the "black kid does drugs" allegory.

I think the use of the snap with the scientist dude might be clever, if they do what I think they are with it. I wanna go over that scene again, but we know John already has powers (they hinted at it pretty strongly in the interview scene in episode 2) and given the time frame I don't think he got them from the broker. So either he got them during the Hydra experiments... or the American whose blood samples they used wasn't Isaiah, but John himself.

Madripoor was neat. The payoff at the end with the Wakanda stuff was cool.

Also, is it just me, or did Sharon feel... off? Like, for all her talk about being over patriotism and such, I feel like the entire thing (getting in with that museum, the drive away at the end) was an undercover op for SHIELD. And not in a "this is a clever setup for showing how good a spy she is" but in a "this is stupidly obvious" kinda way.

So on the action figure end, there have been several leaks of Sam Wilson Captain America. It's the Sorta-BaF of the Disney+ wave, we've seen the Diamond Select, etc. I don't think anyone would be shocked by that, we all kinda know that's where the show is going.

The surprise is that the *main release* John Walker figure is as US Agent, black costume and all. The Captain America costume is being done only as an exclusive. Between that and the fact that we've seen shots in the trailers of Sam training with the shield... I don't think this is a case, as in WandaVision, where Sam is only going to don the costume for the final episode. Whatever happens that causes him to take back the shield, it'll happen early enough that not only will Sam become Captain America, but John will take up the mantle of US Agent.

As I like to say "If it's in the recap, it's in the show."

QuoteLot's of good stuff, like making Zemo a Baron again and giving him some interesting character stuff.

I quite liked how Zemo is handled in this. His mask just chilling in the back seat is kinda random, like "Oh yeah, I used to run around wearing this while hunting Hydra. Might as well take it with me" But sure, why not.

QuoteCould be their setup for Eli getting his powers (taking the bullet for his grandfather), which does mean we'd skip out on his arc with the MGH/equivalent... but while it's good character stuff, I'd be just as happy to skip the "black kid does drugs" allegory.

If they can take a broad strokes approach with Zemo, and Isiah, and any number of other characters superhero adaptations, they can do that with Eli. Just getting a blood transfusion would work.

Oh, totally forgot...why did Falcon have his phone with him, least of all turned on? Come on, man. You're gonna tell me Zemo didn't make sure he didn't bring his phone? That is bush league right there.

So. Number of things I predicted ahead of time, but also disproves a few theories I had. Good episode but... that ending though.

Don't get me wrong, I was pretty sure from episode 1 that it was going to happen that way. In the comics John's "point of no return" as Cap happened because he went nuts and killed a bunch of terrorists, so I fully expected that to be the ultimate fate of at least one of the Flag Smashers. But that kill was brutal, with an intentional callback to the Steve/Tony fight in Civil War. And the way the music for the ending credits is nearly completely silent? Oof.

That said, I'll admit I was fully wrong on John Walker. With the way episode 2 opened, I fully expected him to have been a super soldier already, but this episode thoroughly dispels that notion.

Actually, before I start, Daniel Bruhl has revealed that there is WAY more footage of Zemo dancing at the nightclub. Internet, do not fail me and acquire that footage. This I command.

[EDIT]: I have been informed that #ReleaseTheZemoCut was a thing, the footage has already been released, and it is an hour long. I approve. [EDIT] apparently the longer footage was about 20 seconds long, and the 1 hour video was a loop of that. Oh well.

First, some fun little jokes.

Anyway, this week on Sam and Bucky are friggin' useless, Zemo eats candy. Riveting stuff guys. Well, at least it's better than Lex and his Jolly Ranchers.

Kids, do NOT accept candy from that man. Stranger danger.  I didn't know Slender Man was going to be a villain in this show.

Also considering Echo's got a spinoff announced before Hawkeye's even out and DC's doing a Painkiller spinoff AND a Peacemaker spinoff, Marvel better be giving Zemo a spinoff show right the eff now because he is stealing this show, but that's not hard considering Sam and Bucky aren't accomplishing much in this.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I really, really did not enjoy this episode.

Sam, stop defending actual terrorists and get in the damn robot. You're lucky Bright Noa isn't in this show.

You know, it's a real shame, Erin Kellyman has a really unique and compelling screen presence, but any sympathy I might have for her character died with the line "[violence] is the only language they'll understand." and it only got more tedious from there. No amount of "woe is me, we live in a society" is going to make her any less purple in my eyes.

Like, I'm sorry, you know me, I stan for the MCU like it's my job, but I could barely get through this.

And of course, they had to kill Battlestar, the ONLY likable character other than Zemo who's in this episode for more than 2 minutes? I literally flipped off the screen within a second of Battlestar getting it.

See, that didn't bother me, because on some level I kind of saw it coming.

The reason John Walker ceased being Captain America in the comics was because a terrorist organization killed his parents, which drove him into a rage. He ended up killing the terrorists on camera, and the government stepped in and was like "yeaaaaah... maybe we should give that identity back to Steve Rogers"

And what was set up in this series? John Walker taking up the Cap mantle and Sam needing a good reason to take it from him. We also have a terrorist organization with sympathetic motives that would make it all the worse when John snapped and killed them. And no parents in sight, meaning that the death that set him off had to be someone else... and after his conversation with John about the serum, Battlestar was the only character that could elicit that rage. Heck, it couldn't be anyone else, because Battlestar was consistently the one pulling John back from the brink.

So there was a Hasbro panel today, and one of the things they said was that they're going to be showing off one Disney + character every week from now until the show ends. They showed Zemo this Monday, I suspect next Monday will be Bucky... And given what we saw here, I think the next one is almost certainly the leaked US Agent figure, black costume and all.

Here's a big part of why I feel the way I do on the matter.

1. Civil War. This thing is channeling CW a lot, complete with the CW music playing when the Dora Milaje fight happens, but the difference (other than, you know, Civil War being a LOT better) is that Rhodey doesn't die in that. The "I can't feel my legs" scene is heartbreaking, and a scene I think back to a lot, along with Rhodey's line "Yeah, this sucks, this a bad beat." I rewatched a good chunk of CA:CW on D+ when Wandavision and this were coming out (the Wanda/Vision stuff and Zemo stuff) and that is SUCH a good movie. But Rhodey appears in later stuff, and for me he's a highlight in each thing he appears in. Him telling Ross he helped his cause and it cost him is one of my favorite moments from Infinity War, and him bonding with Nebula over their artificial body parts is a highlight in Endgame, and he even shows up in this show, AND is getting a D+ series.

CA: Civil War is a massive improvement over the comic book version, and this thing, as of this episode, reminds me a LOT of the comic. Almost every character carrying the conflict ball AND the idiot ball and running the full football field with it, the only character who's any fun is the hammy villain, it's relentlessly dark, it failed to make you feel sympathy when it's supposed to because actions speak louder than words, and the one really likeable, relatable black guy they bring in out of obscurity gets absolutely bodied in it to raise the stakes.

2. John Walker has been Captain Heel for at least two straight episodes, and I know people who don't read the comics who had him pegged as a jerk in the first two. He doesn't need Lemar getting killed, or even wounded, to spring him into agro action because he's already been like that for a while now. Dude's pulling no knock warrants and SWAT raids and going full Jack Bauer on folks and ranting like a jerk the second he shows up on screen in this.

3.

QuoteWe also have a terrorist organization with sympathetic motives that would make it all the worse when John snapped and killed them.

"There's a difference between having a sympathetic backstory and actually being sympathetic."
— Linkara, History of Power Rangers

I was genuinely angry that Karli made it out of that episode alive. Actions, again, speak louder than words, and she is a disgusting villain.

This show spends so much screentime fleshing out the motivations of terrorists that it comes dangerously close to endorsing them. It's padding out the better part of almost 48 minutes trying to make me sympathize with a real-world style terrorist. I can roll with Sam getting pulled over and being denied a bank loan. I can roll with Sam bringing his home phone to Madripoor. I can roll with Zemo and Sam making pimp jokes. I can roll with Zemo talking to kids like he's trying to get the kids in the Lesson Van, and doing a loose adaptation for the Truth complete with an Eli cameo was awesome, but this is friggin' gross.

If Falcon gets the shield back and Walker does indeed become the USAgent... does he get a shield too?

For example, the first episode about Sam and his sister wasn't just about giving Sam a family for some reason but we see it come up again and it made sense to me. Also like Zemo's candy fixation and all the scenes with Lemar and Walker. It made him going over the edge that more... reasonable? 

Another couple of things I noticed was the political themes that they've said they would feature in the series. I assumed and expected those themes would surround the idea of letting/not letting a black man be "America's mascot" and in a way it is. But a more underline theme they've been circling and all but stated was the Israel/Palestinian conflict with the Flag Smashers vs the GRC. With Karli practically owning the balance between being a terrorist or revolutionary.  And the GRC being an entity literally trying to replace "displaced persons" in place where they weren't. Clearly people returning post-blip are the Jews in this analogy and the Flag Smashers are PLO/Hamas or whoever you can plug in. Again, it kinda snuck up on me. I didn't see it but it was rather in your face this episode.


Another thing that stuck out to me ALOT more was Erskine's words to Steve in The First Avenger. He told him the serum brings out whats already inside of you. That's why the Red Skull became what he did and Steve was inherently good and just more virtuous. So giving it to people like Karli or even Walker would bring out what's already inside of them, rage and evil. Also why Bucky, free of the Winter Soldier programming isn't rageful like them. Again, I don't know why I didn't notice this at first. Just started sounding familiar as I watched the episode.

QuoteAnother thing that stuck out to me ALOT more was Erskine's words to Steve in The First Avenger. He told him the serum brings out whats already inside of you. That's why the Red Skull became what he did and Steve was inherently good and just more virtuous. So giving it to people like Karli or even Walker would bring out what's already inside of them, rage and evil. Also why Bucky, free of the Winter Soldier programming isn't rageful like them. Again, I don't know why I didn't notice this at first. Just started sounding familiar as I watched the episode.

Indeed. We don't talk about The First Avenger much these days, but it did have some really nice moments that cemented the MCU's "These guys get it" reputation:

Erskine: So you want to kill some Nazis?

Steve: I don't wanna kill anyone. I just don't like bullies.

Erskine: [why he chose Steve for the serum] Because a weak man knows the value of strength.

Where I differ is the MCU (less so the Netflix shows, granted, but none of them bothered me in any way like this does) is the MCU is really rather tasteful.

Zemo talking about his family buried under rubble is a brief moment, and we never see it. Tony Stark deflects with jokes constantly, but they're funny jokes. Ant-Man's a bumbling goof, but he loves his daughter. Pretty much everything about GotG. Black Panther has some really fun moments like Shuri trolling T'challa (DELETE THAT FOOTAGE!). Infinity War is very dark, but ONLY when Thanos is on the screen or talked about. A lot of the rest of it is a laugh riot. Wandavision has some REALLY dark material (in particular actually showing the bomb dropping in Wanda and Pietro's home) but balances it out with its playful and charming moments. And it has some nice hero moments too. Monica's mom died and she was a gosh darn hero. Vision defeating the evil duplicate Vision with a philosophy debate is just the best thing ever. I love it so.

This thing is so, so very incendiary, and even with Zemo classing up the proceedings, I don't find it very fun.

Did anyone else feel like the training montage was out of order? Like, we get this scene where sam and bucky are talking, Sam's acting like Cap, and they're throwing and catching the shield casually. Then a bit later we get a montage of Sam getting into shape, learning to throw the shield, and generally getting himself ready to become Captain America.

I know, doing it in reverse would be the question "what's bucky doing during all this", but it just felt out of order for some reason.

Liked the rest of it. Isiah going more into his backstory and paralleling/subverting Steve with the story of Isiah and his wife (her thinking he was dead all this time) was a nice touch. I'm so glad they made him a real part of this story and not a "lol, quicksilver" thing like WV.

One more to go. This is the big one.

John Walker making his own shield.

Obviously I liked the fight at the beginning. I liked the nod to the new Falcon. I liked the scenes with Isaiah and Sam, though I think it could have been more.  But largely, I think I honestly couldn't care THAT much about much else. I mean the bulk of the episode focused on Sam being at home working on his parent's boat. Eh. I could take or leave it. The training scene was nice(and yes, it did seem a little out of order), but I sensed it coming and even felt even that was a scene I could lose and not care about. Actually most of the episode felt that way. John with Lemar's parents. Sharon's call to Batroc(intriguing but I'm like umm... okay). the scene with Bucky and Zemo. And the "cameo", which has been teased  as this "super big cameo" from a "very important character" just fell flat. I mean I like JLD and thought she did a good job with the scene, but for the build up and the "rumor", I expected like an Avenger-level character. Old Steve, a changed back Bruce, the new Black Widow, Red Skull, Nick Fury, or someone. Even someone new like a mutant or one of the Fantastic Four. But Madam Hydra? And I felt like that as if felt with practically every other scene in the episode "Umm.... okay."

Forgot about that cameo. Hadn't even heard any hype for it in advance myself. For me it just kinda came out of nowhere.

My understanding is that she was supposed to be a thing in BW, so it's as much a tie in to that. Also, she's the current Madame Hydra, but she's been off and on SHIELD before that and she might be doing her own thing here.

First, lets get it out of the way... by far the weakest element of the whole show was Karli. That cut pandemic subplot probably has a lot to do with it, expanding her motivations and explaining her desperation in a way the show (as it currently stands) just didn't. In the end, she's killed off and we're clearly supposed to care... but yeah, SS is right, I really don't. It also weakens the final Cap speech, because I suspect the original moral question was about hoarding vaccines for the virus, but the senator is right: What happens to those people whose houses are being lived in by other people? Not rushing into a rash relocation project is fair, but there's no real alternative given.

I'll admit to being fairly lukewarm to Carter's turn as the Power Broker. On the one hand, it's set up perfectly fine, the necessary story beats building to it are present... but it also feels wrong for me too. This is Peggy Carter's niece, a long running Cap love interest and supporting character in the comics, being turned into a kinda blah arms dealer. It feels like a misstep, but we'll see where they go with it (if they do at all).

The rest was solid. Walker's ultimate "redemption" was decent, though on some level I wish it was more ambiguous. The character has always walked that moral line in the comics where he can be hero or villain depending on context, and the save people moment felt very much like a "See, he's good now! Serum's not making him crazy anymore!" and like... no. I like Walker well enough, but he was a bully and an entitled prick before the serum. I also kinda wish they'd stop pushing the Contessa so hard... I get it, she's your tie to the Black Widow movie, but she felt out of place. I'd almost have preferred it if that scene was the post-credit teaser instead.

Zemo getting the last laugh was great. Tied up the loose end of the remaining super soldiers, and reinforced him as a villain with a decent amount of cunning and reach.

Sam went all in on the Captain America ham, and I loved it. I'm not 100% sold on the costume (it's mostly the jawline that bugs me. It'd probably work on someone like Evans with his stronger jawline, but Mackie has a thinner jaw. It's the same problem they run into with Grant Gustin's Flash, where they want to have that open jawline to match the comics... but the chin strap just looks better.) but he wore the mantle well, and they can make tweeks for later MCU projects. The ending bit with "Captain America and the Winter Soldier" was a nice touch.

Kinda hope Batrok isn't dead. Yeah, I know we saw him shot, but as the saying goes, if you don't see the body buried...

First of all the stuff I liked. I liked the build up. I really like all the loose ends they left. You right T, I appreciated them bringing Zemo back like that to finish off what he wanted. Shows how big of a villain he could be if they wanted to go that route. LOVED the USAgent getting his costume. It seemed rather clunky and just so happenstance but at least he got it and also has someone he's working for. Who, though, that's the question. Same as with Sharon. Loved the nod with going back to her "old organization" to SHIELD. But who are these people she's working with? Who could they be? I liked how Isaiah's story ended. Giving him the recognition he was robbed of. I do kinda wish Sam made a comment about taking his grandson and "working out" with him(hint hint). And yeah, I also hope Batroc is still alive. Yeah we saw him far but they purposely didn't show and "actual" death for a reason I gotta believe. I really think GSP likes the role and I dsmn sure love seeing him in it.

Now, the part that I really really liked is with the new Captain America. Falcon America. I liked the costume a lot. Seemed pretty accurate to me. Moreover, the stuff he was doing with the shield, that's the kind of thing I think is much harder to show on a comic panel and seeing it live action was a site! Almost everything he did with it was awesome.

However, the parts I don't like. Like I said it seemed pretty predictable in plot and script. I think it was called that Sharon Carter was the Power Broker back like half way though her first episode with many online. Yeah, Karli's story was unfortunately not as developed as I wanted. I was hoping like something Killmonger like. A villain not just with a justifiable motivation but one you can cheer for and you WANT to see succeed. I mean, I get her angle, trying to blur the line between terrorist and revolutionary, but she almost seemed too cartoony bad. Not like badly written but mustache twirling bad. It just didn't jive with her cause.  And I guess that has to do with the whole politics of it.

Again, I said it earlier but it was very clear to me the underlined parallel was the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. More that than Pandemic(I think they started filming before the pandemic) but if there was any doubt that was cleared with with his speech at the end. And that speech I had A-LOT of problems with. I'm sorry, I've worked in politics for years and I get the dynamics and the personalities. But first of all, I just didn't get a authentic feel from Sam, comparing to Steve and when he made speeches. When he said his speeches I believed it! Sitting in my couch. Hell I listened to his Endgame speech the morning of Election Day. But here, Sam's didn't hit like that. It seems like they just wanted to show him in the costume doing "Captain America" things and either he went too far or tried way too hard. I saw them trying to set up the dynamic of displaced persons returning vs removing those who settled there, again their language VERY striking to the Israeli-Palestinian debate. But they had Sam taking a VERY political position and they made him seem like he's above the fray and can see things with clear eyes and the reality is that's just a cop out. Realistically those politicians would have likely heard his position thousands of times from millions of others and would counter it. But instead they seemed sheepishly just "oh gosh Captain America" you're absolutely right. Let's do the right thing because before you said anything I had no idea what that was even though I just suspended your predecessor because he's a murdering jerk."

Actually speaking about that. That bothered me too. I don't know what they were trying to do with Walker. It seemed as if they were trying to set up him having some cognitive disconnect or that he was crazy. But at the end he not only did the right thing and saved civilians but also let the police stop the FSers. I think his angle would have worked best if they made his angle solely based on grief, rage and remorse over Lemar's death. But he kept shaking his head like he was trying to clear cobwebs and hammering away fanatically making a shield. I'm wondering if he was crazy then they should have went fully that route. Even though it was out of the character they made from the beginning.

QuoteI liked how Isaiah's story ended. Giving him the recognition he was robbed of.

Yeah, Isaiah's story was done really rather well. Having Sam have a kinda idealistic struggle with him, complete his character arc, and impress Isiah by pulling it off. It's a very feel good moment. There's a lot of that here, even if some of it is wedged in in a odd way.

QuoteNow, the part that I really really liked is with the new Captain America. Falcon America. I liked the costume a lot. Seemed pretty accurate to me. Moreover, the stuff he was doing with the shield, that's the kind of thing I think is much harder to show on a comic panel and seeing it live action was a site! Almost everything he did with it was awesome.

Me too. I second Falcon showed up in the costume I was feeling the fanservice vibes. That whole action sequence had so much crowd pleasing and cool stunt work you'd think Boba Fett would be showing up. Sam using the shield, falcon wings and jets (which reminded me of Vanquished) plus Redwing made him feel like Cap, Falcon and Iron Man all rolled up into one. It's really a sight. The costume...the fan in me loves it, the critic in me goes "something about the fabric, especially around the chest area looks a bit iffy." I think I can live with it.

QuoteYeah, Karli's story was unfortunately not as developed as I wanted. I was hoping like something Killmonger like. A villain not just with a justifiable motivation but one you can cheer for and you WANT to see succeed. I mean, I get her angle, trying to blur the line between terrorist and revolutionary, but she almost seemed too cartoony bad. Not like badly written but mustache twirling bad. It just didn't jive with her cause.  And I guess that has to do with the whole politics of it.

I think Killmonger's a great comparison. I was thinking of him a few weeks ago with that one episode. In that movie, Black Panther, you see his backstory in a proper flashback and thus have more of a emotional attachment to who he is and how he got to his path. With Karli, I think she could have benefitted more from something like that. One less speech to a fellow Flag Smasher and instead a flashback showing her life before she got into this line of work. That and sanding down her deeds to be less extreme. Maybe her followers are trying to push her to do worse deeds and she doesn't quite want to do it. I think that WOULD have worked much better with the actress they cast. She has this really vulnerable and insecure face and voice and yet she's threatening Sam's nephews and blowing up buildings....it just doesn't gel right.

Sam's speech: I'm kinda reminded of the infamous Superman's infamous speech from Superman IV: "There will be peace. There will be peace when the people of the world want it so bad they'll have no choice but to make it happen." I joke, it wasn't THAT simplistic by any stretch, but that's kinda where my mind goes. Sam went from a pretty passive character in his own show to having a very active finish, and that part was...a big speech about something. I'll admit I'm not nearly as knowledgeable in the subject material you've mentioned, at all, so I can't really comment on it too much. So yeah.

Quoteand the reality is that's just a cop out.

Speaking of cop-outs, and that term was in my mind watching the finale as well, Johnny Walker going from being on the warpath to teaming up with the good guys and heroically saving civilians felt a bit jarring. It kinda felt like it needs a bit more connective tissue.

And then there's the armored car blowing up, followed by a sneaky string-pulling suit smirking. Makes it easy doesn't even begin to cover it.

Also "Wakanda has jurisdiction wherever Wakanda decides to be" *later* "Ok, time to safely hand off Zemo to the Raft. Enjoy chilling out and reading your Machiavelli while the costumed folks beat each other up, again, Zemo." Ok then.

Don't really like Sharon Carter as a crime boss pulling her own strings (or whatever she's doing). Not saying it doesn't technically make sense in this universe, but it just don't feel right.

Now for disappointments that aren't technically story flaws or issues.

-I really wanted a Chris Evans cameo of some kind. I don't know how likely it would have been, but I would have liked to see it.

-I was a bit disappointed Eli didn't have really anything to do other than to show up and say a few lines. He might as well have said "Hi, I'm Patriot. look forward to me in the upcoming Young Avengers movie/show where I may or may not be played by a different actor."

Torres.....was barely a character. I know putting him on the path to being the new Falcon would probably have been clunky as heck, but I was expecting a LITTLE bit more from him. Even Ryan Choi from the Snyder Cut had more of a character arc.

On the plus (?) side: they just announced the followup: Captain America 4. Which is a movie. Uh....guys? What's a "movie"?

Marvel, I hope you had that well in the works in advance, because announcing a new movie when you JUST got out the Shang-Chi trailer and STILL haven't released Black Widow is bat-gauno insane.....Yeah...I still wanna see it.

As far as Evans goes, I'm not surprised he didn't show up here. Beyond the fact that the "real" Cap showing up might diminish the impact of Sam taking up the shield, there's not really all that much for him to do other than maybe meet Isaiah at the end (he already told Sam to take up the shield in Endgame)... which, while that would have been cool, I get the impression with the whole Moon conversation and its cheeky follow-up in the finale that the plan was to save that (and the costly contract negotiations to get Evans back) for CA4.

In ep 2 of Loki we meet female Loki as a separate character because time travel. Anyway, the foreign language subs gave away the character's true identity, just like they did with Monica Rambeau in Wandavision. It's Sylvie, the Young Masters version of Enchantress from Dark Reign: Young Avengers. Well, that's certainly different. You have mah curiosity. Though it might just be another instance of MCU doing a veto on Amora because Thor movies (hence Lorelei appearing in Shield).

A dossier seen in the episode listed her as Slyvie Laufeysdottir. So she's either Loki's sister or she's an alternate universe female version of Loki.  (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/f/fb/Sylvie_Laufeydottir%27s_File.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210617144636)

Im still reeling, but... Wow. What a way to introduce the character to become the MCU's new big bad, essentially kill him, introduce the multiverse, and still deliver on an emotional journey for the title character that feels earned. There's a lot to unpack here but MAN. So good.

As I've said a few times before on this forum, Kang is probably my single favorite Marvel villain, and he was HORRIBLE in this. They went full Mandarin, full Jesse Eisenberg with him, making him an utterly out of character, hyperactive, jokey-jokey, hammy goofball who gets up on the desk while he's talking. I couldn't BELIEVE how badly they butchered him.

Between him and Taskmaster (and Thor, and Scourge, and Ghost, and...), The MCU voids the claim that they're faithful to the source material. They're not. And the idea that it's an alternate timeline Kang still doesn't excuse the disrespectful way he was used, because the Council of Kangs already existed in the comics and the cartoons, and they weren't done like that. They were treated with utmost respect. The Lego video game version of Kang was treated with more respect than the MCU version has so far, and that's just baffling.

First of all, that wasn't Kang. It was likely intended to be Immortus... Small quibble, but given his stated age, his connection to the time keepers, and his antagonism towards himself, i felt that was pretty clear.

Beyond that... I feel you're being WAY over critical. First, Kang has never been consistent. He's been more wisecracking in certain stories, and his personality is all over the place depending on which kang we're dealing with, where on the timeline we are, and the mood of the writer. And frankly, even if he is the same when we meet him again, I'll take this character a hundred times over above the very rapey kang from the majority of his appearances.

Second, this is supposed to be a man who has been alone with his obsession for thousands of years. He's clearly been driven a bit crazy by his self exile and the war he was a part of.

Third, this isn't Kang. We haven't seen Kang. The whole point of the entire freaking series is about variants and the differences between them. All we saw of kang was Immortus' fear, and a statue.

Fourth, i think it is the slap in the face to make that claim when there's SO MUCH love given to the comics... Between Classic Loki, Throg, the Thanos copter... They packed so much comics love in there. I haven't seen BW, but i feel like you're letting that experience color the Loki series.

Spoiler

QuoteFirst of all, that wasn't Kang. It was likely intended to be Immortus...

That's a fair enough point actually, and for some reason, I don't really know why, I didn't think of it. And that's less of an issue for me because I've never especially liked Immortus.

They're in a sense the same guy, but the differences are there and are why the two characters are often squared against each other. The creators said in a interview that it's not necessarily Immortus. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

QuoteAnd frankly, even if he is the same when we meet him again, I'll take this character a hundred times over above the very rapey kang from the majority of his appearances.

I'll say this at least, the original Carol Danvers story is so universally disliked that even its own writers don't stand by it and I don't think I know anyone who defends it.

And it was directly criticized in better stories that played off it, including Kang Dynasty, which is one of my favorite Kang stories.

QuoteSecond, this is supposed to be a man who has been alone with his obsession for thousands of years. He's clearly been driven a bit crazy by his self exile and the war he was a part of.

That's a fair point, but the execution bothered me. It reminded me a bit of Jar Jar Binks. Not to say he's Jar Jar specifically, but I think if his mannerisms were toned down just the right amount, I'd probably be ok with it.

QuoteI haven't seen BW, but i feel like you're letting that experience color the Loki series.

Not in the slightest, I just phrased my earlier comment poorly, and you know what, that's on me, I got caught up in the moment. I had about two years to be fully prepared for Taskmaster to be a wholly separate thing, and indeed Tony Masters could appear proper in some future project, and Taskmaster being this separate character in BW is not inherently a negative IMO.

QuoteFourth, i think it is the slap in the face to make that claim when there's SO MUCH love given to the comics... Between [REDACTED, REDACTED AND REDACTED] They packed so much comics love in there.

Clearly it had the intended reaction from you, and, from what I hear, others.  92% on Rotten Tomatoes. And I have no doubt the creators poured their comics love into the series, and it doesn't resonate me with on any level. Oh well.

I could come here again and add more to the discussion. That'll be it for the moment.

Quote from: Silver Shocker on July 23, 2021, 02:51:44 AM
That's a fair enough point actually, and for some reason, I don't really know why, I didn't think of it. And that's less of an issue for me because I've never especially liked Immortus.

They're in a sense the same guy, but the differences are there and are why the two characters are often squared against each other. The creators said in a interview that it's not necessarily Immortus. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

TBF, and I learned this after I posted... he is TECHNICALLY exactly what he's called, an obscure Marvel character called "he who remains" with some shades of Immortus thrown in there to make him more recognizable. I guess the idea was "what if this 'he who remains' guy was a Kang, the one who remained after the big Kang war?" It's interesting, and touching on some relevant but obscure lore. Good stuff.

QuoteI'll say this at least, the original Carol Danvers story is so universally disliked that even its own writers don't stand by it and I don't think I know anyone who defends it.

And it was directly criticized in better stories that played off it, including Kang Dynasty, which is one of my favorite Kang stories.

I think it's my turn to apologize, tbh. I had recently watched a youtuber express his own frustrations with comic Kang and the fact that he was being set up as the MCU's next big baddie, and that was on my mind when I was responding. The truth is, I don't actually dislike Kang at all personally... I dislike certain stories with Kang in them, and the prevalence of "I'm going to bed X against their will" in a lot of early stuff is right up there with slapping your wife to cure hysteria in terms of feeling like "I get that this is a product of its time but COME ON"... but Kang is such an ambiguous character anyway it's actually easier to write that all off as another version or that that part of him got pulled off when he was split into Immortus in Avengers Forever, etc.

His execution in EMH was pretty good though, and there are stories I do like. I should not have been as dismissive about the character, when my point was more that Kang is a character governed more by how he's used. Much like, y'know, time travel in general... it can be done really well, but it can also be very problematic.

QuoteNot in the slightest, I just phrased my earlier comment poorly, and you know what, that's on me, I got caught up in the moment. I had about two years to be fully prepared for Taskmaster to be a wholly separate thing, and indeed Tony Masters could appear proper in some future project, and Taskmaster being this separate character in BW is not inherently a negative IMO.

Not really responding to this per se, but just adding I've since seen BW, and... I kinda feel the same, tbh. As I told Benton, don't go into that film expecting Taskmaster, go in expecting an off brand version with similar powers. Served the purpose within the story, but the door IS open to explore a proper version of the character down the line. We'll see.

So, ever since Thor 1 I've been wanting to see Enchantress. I just always liked her. This version is pretty cool!
Okay, technically she's based on a Young Avengers character who used Amora's name and even that is so loose that she's really just an original character, but I liked her. If she shows up more, I wouldn't be mad.
And I didn't like her at first. She starts a bit grating and my god they have to stop saying the word enchant.... But by the end I rooted for her.

I also loved this particular Kang. I am a huge Kang fan but the thing I most love is that his character is different all the time. If they started doing a bunch of different Kang's in the MCU, that would be pretty cool.
This one was fun and worked for what he was and introduced the concept nicely.
If they did end up doing an FF soon... heck have them fight Rama-Tut. If they do end up going the Young Avengers route, which it seems like they are building to, I welcome an Iron Lad. Nathaniel Richards all day.
I think the actor they have chosen has enough range to do many different takes on the same character.

One thing that keeps me thinking back to this is the new Kang the Conqueror comic miniseries that's coming out right now. Issue #2 is out though, but I haven't read it, but I've read issue #1 and I really liked it. It tackled the Iron Lad/Nathaniel Richards/Kang dynamic and as such, played up that some of Kang's actions and methods are pretty slimy (in particular "courting Ravonna" gets a very quick visual reference. Good time to mention, I never really liked those Kang stories much either  :P)

Plus, the return of Kingpin? Great. Wonderful. Even if it's just a cameo.

* Alaqua Cox, a born deaf Native American playing the deaf Native American character Maya Lopez aka Echo.
** continuation of that films storyline. Imo Florence is a better Widow and more believable Soviet era spy than Scarlett who is more a direct action hero template

When did Damage Control become some kind of police-type Federal Agency?  I remember when the title originally came out, they were more of just a clean-up team.  I think I only got the first year's worth or so of the title (or was it a mini-series?) before I got out of comics regularly, so who know what could have happened after that.

So dc started as that in the first sm movie, but by no way home they were the ones arresting Peter for the mysterio cleanup. They seem to be more or less the organization dealing with superhero bs in general, something tony set up with the us.