Also out today, something I did not realize was as far along as this, is the first trailer for Logan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbug3zTm3Ws (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbug3zTm3Ws)
To be honest, it looks good. The first Wolverine was terrible, the second I liked but it definitely had issues, so maybe this one improves further. A little on the bleak side though.
Wow...just...wow...that is one heck of a trailer. It looks good. Not just the muddled, more-good-than-bad, of the X-Man films, but flat-out good. I am 100% interested.
It looks like The Last of Us meets Wolverine - and that is awesome!
I have a theory
Spoiler
I think the Professor X we see is actually dead, and that what Logan sees is either a memory, or it's a psychic imprint on Logan's mind made before Xavier's death. This future is far enough along that Wolverine appears older than he did even in DoFP, and far enough that he's both considerably aging and his healing factor is failing. We don't see him physically interacting with anyone else except during the scenes where what appears to be Xavier is about to be shot, which may be flashbacks to his death.
Quote from: Tomato on October 21, 2016, 12:46:28 PM
I have a theory
Spoiler
I think the Professor X we see is actually dead, and that what Logan sees is either a memory, or it's a psychic imprint on Logan's mind made before Xavier's death. This future is far enough along that Wolverine appears older than he did even in DoFP, and far enough that he's both considerably aging and his healing factor is failing. We don't see him physically interacting with anyone else except during the scenes where what appears to be Xavier is about to be shot, which may be flashbacks to his death.
Interesting theory! Could well turn out to be true given the advanced age.
Indeed, very interesting!
Quote from: Podmark on October 21, 2016, 01:21:35 AM
It looks like The Last of Us meets Wolverine - and that is awesome!
More like Sweet Tooth.Or Lone Wolverine and Cub.Or Grendel: Warchild.I could go on,but you get the picture.
Yeah, I made a Lone Wolf and Cub reference myself when discussing it with some friends. It's definitely a old premise but it think it's a great idea in this context. One of my friends who hadn't played The Last of Us was reminded of Telltale's Walking Dead, which again, had a similar premise.
Pretty cool trailer. I'm not sure how many people here saw it but the U.S. version of the trailer apparently lacked a really sweet shot of Logan stabbing a guy through the head that was in the version I saw.
Actually, that scene is missing from the main US trailer too. It is only in the red band trailer.
Hardcase and a kid in the post apocalypse is a pretty old trope by now.Maybe Fist of The North Star would also be a close comparison.
Heck Mad Max II did it, after a fashion.
Also,Cable and Hope.But I guess hes busy in Deadpool 2.
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 03, 2016, 09:01:01 AM
Actually, that scene is missing from the main US trailer too. It is only in the red band trailer.
So that was actually a typo from me. I meant to say the U.S. version was missing it, not the non- U.S. version.
(https://scontent-amt2-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/15043477_210650859344623_7872389378113273856_n.jpg)
Lets play "Whos hand is that?"
Reavers?
Dr. Doom
(Nah, I don't think so either. It looks like it would make a good Doom hand.)
That would be possible.And Doom had a cameo in Old Man Logan.
But seeing Donald Pierce is in the movie,its probably his hand.
Clearly it's Iron Man. And you peons thought Robert was only cameoing in Spider-Man.
Quote from: Tomato on November 17, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
Clearly it's Iron Man. And you peons thought Robert was only cameoing in Spider-Man.
If they can cut a deal for Ego,anything is possible.
Yeah, on second look, it appears more like a cybernetic hand than an armored one.
It's probably Pierce or another Reaver, but it makes me think of Sinister.
I'm thinking Pierce.
It shows the guy with the robot hand in the trailer. The character is named Donald Pierce according to imdb. I haven't read the comic.
Looks like we're seeing the beginnings of a Hellfire Club, ladies and mutants!
^Didnt we see them already?Or that isnt canon any longer?
We did, but most people discount that because the members of the team were so lackluster.
Hes working for Sinister,so I wouldnt count on the whole club.
Gotta save some villains for future movies.Like,Cameron Hodge,Bastion,Omega Red,Stryfe...future movies will be interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH3OxVFvTeg&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH3OxVFvTeg&feature=youtu.be)
A new trailer.
I just came from the theater. This movie was done right!
Easily in top 3, if not the best X-Men movie.
It really deserves its hard R rating, too. After John Wick 2 and Logan, 2017 is shaping up to be a great year for movies.
Spoiler
The Reavers are a great choice for villains in this future story. Hecl theres even a surprise appearance from 90s wolverine villain
Spoiler
Albert!
although hes not really called that by name
Here are my thoughts, folks.
Lady Grey and I just got back from seeing this. Hours later, I'm still not entirely certain exactly how I feel about it. It's certainly a good movie, and an excellent story about both Wolverine and to a lesser extent Professor X. Yet, I think that it isn't quite as amazing as folks are saying.
It has a few flaws, mostly minor, and while it has some really wonderful moments, it doesn't quite seem to attain the profundity it's straining for. It is an extremely well made film; there's no doubt about that, and everyone involved turns in an incredible performance, especially Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman.
The 'ten minutes into the future' setting is striking, and at times it feels uncomfortably close, but it doesn't really get enough development to have the chilling dystopian effect of Soylent Green, Blade Runner, or Brazil.
The story they're telling is really a fascinating one, and it involves ideas (specifically with the Prof.) that, to my knowledge, are new to the genre, which is a rarity. The same is true of the device that created the film's status quo with mutants. The movie also has some fairly impressive symbolism in the central conflicts of the second and third acts.
Spoiler
The generational tale is really well captured: grandfather, father, daughter, combined with the son killing the father. You've also got the younger self fighting the older self, literally Wolverine fighting his greatest opponent, the great conflict of his life: his better nature versus his own inner demons. It's a fight that he can't win, a chain of violence that can only be broken by the next generation. That's pretty good.
Ultimately, I think the film troubles me, and that is a rare thing for a superhero movie. Yet, the elements of the movie that trouble me are probably why I can't quite make up my mind about it, and the difficulty hinges on the fact that the future this story explores is a very bleak one. That's fine, and I enjoy dystopian fiction. But it's a bleakness that feels inescapable, inevitable, and most importantly, it's a future that these characters don't deserve.
That's part of the point, and I realize that. Yet, I think I'd have been more comfortable with the final product if the creators had offered the audience an 'out,' the possibility that, to paraphrase Scrooge, this future might not come to pass. Of course, that's not realistic, but realism is just a recent fad in the history of literature (a mere few hundred years old compared to the untold thousands of fantasy), and superheroes are not terribly troubled by realism at any rate.
Interesting thought BG. Thanks for sharing.
I really feel like this is close to a future that we are actually heading in. Heck, there are already refugees fleeing north to Canada through North Dakota!
The autonomous driving trucks and monolithic farming equipment (quite probably owned by a mega corporation) seem to be coming sooner rather than later. These themes seem to ripped straight from a Gibson, Stephenson, or Sterling novel. That's why I love how much of the film borrows from the 90s Wolverine comics, when he was at his most cyberpunk.
Really Wolverine is as much a product of the military-industrial complex as he is a mutant. We know that mutants have always been the stand-in for diversity and minorities. The movies have covered that ground quite well. It was interesting to see how this movie takes a different approach.
Hmm. Hope im not getting too political here.
Surprisingly enough, in the Old Man Logan comic, the supervillains had taken over, i guess in this world its the military and corporations. Wasnt there another movie based on a Millar comic where they had to change it from supervillaibs taking over into something more realistic, too? ;)
Wanted.They changed supervillains to assasin society.
Also,I wouldnt really say its a superhero movie.Its more of a neo-western.Its more Sam Peckinpah then Joss Whedon.
You're quite welcome, DM; I love a good literary discussion.
I think your statements are general enough not to be too political, and I think this is the kind of conversation about art that is very fitting for this subforum. Talking about the themes a film engages with seems like fair game to me, provided we don't take it too far in real-world parallels.
I also think you're entirely right. Those were the elements that I found most immediately haunting about the film, and those are also the ones that I wish had been explored a bit more. The episodes that really touched on the corporate future and the utter banality of the evil that drives it were really effective, but they were too lost in the hustle of the film to paint a complete picture.
To go back to the symbolize of the film, I think there might be a paper there. Would that I had time! :)
Spade, that's true, but it's still a movie about superheroes (or ex-superheroes), even if it doesn't really seem part of the genre.
Could be that reading Judge Dredd for the better part of my life,made me less sensitive to politics. :)
Anyway,nothing I havent seen before.With a bit of a stretch,you could probably draw parallels to American Flagg,Give me liberty,Scout and a whole lot of other things...
Another thing is,its not really an OML adaptations.Similarities kinda end with the fact Logan is old.
Quote from: Spade on March 12, 2017, 07:11:23 PM
Could be that reading Judge Dredd for the better part of my life,made me less sensitive to politics. :)
Anyway,nothing I havent seen before.With a bit of a stretch,you could probably draw parallels to American Flagg,Give me liberty,Scout and a whole lot of other things...
Another thing is,its not really an OML adaptations.Similarities kinda end with the fact Logan is old.
Seeing as Old Man Logan had Hulk raping She Hulk to make a bunch of inbred Hulk babies, I think that's kind of obvious. ;)
Thankfully, kk! As much as I love Millar's books, he doesnt quite use subtlety to tell stories.
Moviebob on youtube had a pretty good thing to say about Logan. Its the best movie he doesnt want to see again. Meaning, he hopes hollywood doesnt try to take the themes from Logan and apply them to every other superhero movie. He used the Dark Knight Returns example from the comics, DKR was amazing but spawned all the grimdark comics are for adults stuff that plagued the late 80s and 90s.
Hopefully Logan isnt the same for superhero movies. Fingers crossed DC doesnt have Superman swear and Batman drop his ccostume altogether in the next movie.
You know its weird, when i read stuff like Give Me Liberty or American Flagg, any of the cyberpunk/dystopia stuff from the period, there is still a sort of optimism to it. Martha Washington becomes a respected hero, Hiro Protagonist is super cool, stuff like that, even Ozymandias unites the world at the end of Watchmen. Compare that to Black Mirror or The Road these days, and things look pretty bleak. Logan is very modern in that regard.
@Kk I think that has more to do with rights then restrain,And things like Venom T-Rex just wouldnt work on screen,lets face it.
Once again,Im a Judge Dredd reader,so after that,every dystopia looks tame. :)
So I did see this on opening weekend, but didn't really feel the need to post my thoughts at the time.
I enjoyed it. It's a well made film, and Jackman and Patrick Stewart do a really great job in it. Stewart's acting in it reminded me of some of the more dramatic Picard episodes of Star Trek TNG ("THERE. ARE. FOUR. LIGHTS!")
I didn't love it though. Which is a little dissapointing, considering how into the trailers I was and all the positive hype. I'll say that after 7 years of The Walking Dead, the comic and the video games, and other stuff that's come out since like The Last of Us, I'm a ittle bit sick of the dystopian future wasteland setting. Not saying I can't enjoy it when it's good, but the bleakness of it all wears me out. While I enjoyed Logan, I found the movie pretty depressing, which I'm sure was intentional.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on March 13, 2017, 01:54:15 PMI'm a ittle bit sick of the dystopian future wasteland setting. Not saying I can't enjoy it when it's good, but the bleakness of it all wears me out.
Yeah, I can agree with that.
'The best movie I don't want to see again'...yeah, that captures it quite well.
I tend to agree about the bleakness of such fiction. For me, one of the qualities that make a text literary is the presence of at least the possibility of redemption. Without it, what's the point?
Seriously,this is the movie that peope here have a problem with?Last year we had a weapon manufacturer and a defrosted patriot fighting over their right to intervene abroad.And the one with a rich conservative fighting an alien immigrant. :rolleyes:
I had a pretty big problem with one of those. :P
I don't have a problem with this movie's treatment of its themes. I just don't care for this future for these characters. :)
I assume the second one.
Considering the pretty loose continuity so far,this probably isn't the final,or even the only future.So probably best if look at it as its own thing.Its great sendoff to the character(s) we knew for 17 year.And we really need more endings then origin stories.
Well, I still said I enjoyed the movie and the actors were great in it. I just found it depressing and am kind of tired of this kind of setting.
If you mean others elsewhere have whined about the political parallels of the film (which Patrick Stewart said in an interview were a coincidence), as I'm sure you know, some people will complain no matter what. People complained when one of the creators of Rogue One called the Empire a "white supremacist" organization, even though that's accurate to the lore.
As for the future of the film, the creators are already talking about the possibility of making more films starring X-23 (who, for the record, I thought was great), and the post credit scene of X-Men Apocalypse means they could potentially have her appear in the main X-Men films. It solves their problem of having to replace Jackman.
It's weird, but my favorite part of the movie was seeing all those faux-80s-inspired X-Men comics. I really liked the stylized take on the X-Men uniforms, and I really hope "Is This Eden... Or the End?" gets adapted into a genuine one-shot comic book.
Those brightly colored comics go a long way to offset the bleakness the movie. It's inspiring to think that X-23 and her new mutant team probably grew up on those books as a beacon of hope in spite of the horrors they surely lived through in their "development." So their view of the X-Men (and superheroes) would be largely inspired by the comics which must have loosely adapted the true adventures of the X-Men. I wanted to know the backstory about the pre-Logan world that would have started making comics based on classic X-Men adventures that the real X-Men were supposedly having. Did Xaiver hire a licensing agent to approve that stuff to raise money or public goodwill for his school?
It kinda ironic that the mock-comics were made by Dan Panosian and...wait for it...Joe Quesada.
And it will be released.Not like they would miss an opportunity to make money.
I thought those were real comics from the 80s!
Apparently, the original faux retro comics were two 4 page stories, so they would have to write and draw a lot more if the comics were ever to be fleshed out completely.
High res versions of all the commissioned covers and pages are available here:
http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/6/14821492/logan-x-men-comic-books-wolverine
https://www.slashgear.com/x-men-comics-in-the-movie-logan-images-and-details-from-the-creator-07477285/
This article even tracks down the easter egg about the comic bar codes to reveal a possibly intentional reference to the phrase "Professor Xaiver is a jerk!" :thumbup:
Quote from: detourne_me on March 13, 2017, 04:16:58 AM
You know its weird, when i read stuff like Give Me Liberty or American Flagg, any of the cyberpunk/dystopia stuff from the period, there is still a sort of optimism to it. Martha Washington becomes a respected hero, Hiro Protagonist is super cool, stuff like that, even Ozymandias unites the world at the end of Watchmen. Compare that to Black Mirror or The Road these days, and things look pretty bleak. Logan is very modern in that regard.
Just out of curiosity,did you finish ever
American Flagg and
Life and Times of Martha Washington?
Quote from: Spade on March 19, 2017, 12:42:57 PM
Quote from: detourne_me on March 13, 2017, 04:16:58 AM
You know its weird, when i read stuff like Give Me Liberty or American Flagg, any of the cyberpunk/dystopia stuff from the period, there is still a sort of optimism to it. Martha Washington becomes a respected hero, Hiro Protagonist is super cool, stuff like that, even Ozymandias unites the world at the end of Watchmen. Compare that to Black Mirror or The Road these days, and things look pretty bleak. Logan is very modern in that regard.
Just out of curiosity,did you finish ever American Flagg and Life and Times of Martha Washington?
yup, read them both around 10-12 years ago. have re-read Martha Washington saga a few times since then
You did notice the part where Martha dies after her entire fight was proven pointless and the world went to the dogs,again?But her legacy lived on.Which is kinda what happens in Logan.
And I really cant guess why you found American Flagg more cheerful.Keep in mind,the post Chaykin era doesnt really count,since it vastly deviated from his story bible.
Ah yes, the stories of a child of the projects becoming a space-faring vigilante and a stern jawed sexually adventerous power fantasy that not only has authoritative power, bur also comes into owning a pirate radio station, are not cheerful at all! Logan straight up dismisses power fantasies by writing the comics off as children's stories where only a quarter of it is true. Ive found that post-apocalyptic literature these days is less about power fantasy and more about loss of agency.
I really liked it, my wife didn't as much. A sad story for sure but I'll certainly watch this movie again if only for the fight scenes. Absolutely amazing. Logan and Laura (best child actress ever) were both just so cool taking out bad guys. It was really clawsome throughout. I was clawstruck. This movie had a lot to clawffer.
Quote from: detourne_me on March 19, 2017, 10:56:25 PM
Ah yes, the stories of a child of the projects becoming a space-faring vigilante and a stern jawed sexually adventerous power fantasy that not only has authoritative power, bur also comes into owning a pirate radio station, are not cheerful at all! Logan straight up dismisses power fantasies by writing the comics off as children's stories where only a quarter of it is true. Ive found that post-apocalyptic literature these days is less about power fantasy and more about loss of agency.
Men,did you miss the point of everything.See my earlier observations on
Martha Washington Dies.First,argument of "Its a power fantasy" can be applied to everything and as such is not a valid criticism.If you empathized with Reuben and wanted to be him,thats your view of the story.
Second,it was an adventure comic as much as it was a prediction.Almost the ultimate case of life imitating art.
The short list of trends that Chaykin correctly called:
* Corporate domination of government.
* Cultural domination by reality TV programming.
* Tribalism and extremism as the dominant attributes of political parties.
* The resurgence of neo-Nazi fascism.
* Rural population as bitter, disenfranchised, politically reactionary, and raising their children to be extremist survivalist warriors.
* The militarization of the police.
* Widespread acceptance of recreational drugs.
* Fetishized objectification of women.
* Constant and ubiquitous bombardment of advertising on every available surface.
* Constant and ubiquitous surveillance of just about everyone.
* General apathy toward the actions of the government, as long as the "bread and circuses" are not interrupted.
And a major plot point involves the unintended creation of a man-made ecological disaster involving altered climate.
I agree with you hombre, they are dystopian. I just found the 80s/90s comics and cyberpunk books to be more optimistic. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. `\/(^~^)\/`
Next your going to tell me Threads was a comedy movie...