Preview is finally out. Many may not be pleased [Hi, Benton!]
http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/06/21/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-nickelodeon-trailer/ (http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/06/21/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-nickelodeon-trailer/)
That looks fun. :)
Since we know that Michael Bay's Ninja Turtles is looming ahead they might as well have a kids show version which kinda keeps it old school '80s style.
I'm still not quite sold on it 100% until I see a pilot episode (which I'm sure will be revealed at SDCC 2012) but I'm sure we will get lots of feedback once the fans see it.
- CQ
I'm excited about it. The animation character designs probably won't be everyone's cup of tea, but it does look better in motion than I expected. Also, it's more colorful and stylized than I expected. Should be fun to catch the premiere this fall.
Just saw the premiere. I really liked. It really emphasizes the Turtles as teens, and there's a lot of plots hanging in the air. A good start.
I watched it as well. I thought it was good. Will try to catch it next week.
So, I saw this was out today and, having the weekend off, I figured, what the hell. And as someone who has never been exposed to TMNT before (long story short, I wasn't allowed to watch it as a child) I felt like the episode did a good job establishing the character's origins, their personalities/strengths, and some of the basics of their world. Now, I'm coming into this completely blind (about the only thing I know about the series other then what's been shown already is that shredder is the bad guy), and I'd rather keep it that way for now, but I'm interested in sticking with the series for awhile longer, at least.
I watched it. I haven't seen TMNT since the original 2000s version (before it went through 2-3 animation and story/tone changes). I thought it was okay. I'd give it another episode at the very least.
i really liked it.
it was a new twist on the origin story that just hit all the right notes.
it's mixing in elements from all previous versions (the aliens from the comics, splinter's origin and mikey's mask/head shape from the 80's toons, raph's attitude from the 2000's, and so on)
and the design is just phenomenal in y opinion. the individual details to each turtle are just great.
for example, I already mentioned Mikey's head shape and bandana as being more reminiscent of the early toons, he's just super whimsical that way.
Raph has this battle damaged shell, and even his bandana is a bit rough, it really suits his character well.
Donatello is tall and lanky like a stereotypical geek, but it also makes sense since he has the range with the bo, too.
and Leo, having probably the most well rounded design, even complete with white wrist and ankle wrappings to show how much of a good guy he is.... actually isn't shown as the perfect prodigal son as he usually is portrayed. he's going to have to grow into the leadership role.
yeah, i'll be watching this!
Loved it, but I'm biased whereas anything that has Ninja Turtles on it makes me all joyful and have probably spent too much money in my lifetime on Turtle centric items (as well as I may be fostering a world record tapeworm from all the Ninja Turtles cereal and sugar pies I consumed in my life). I showed this to a friend and his kid whom does 3d animation for a living and he gave the quality the thumbs up. Like above I like how they're meshing and streamlining the popular parts of previous versions into a single version (much the same as the IDW comic is doing). This is totally a new era for the Turtles, and worth it. I would probably be coming out of my shell excited (sorry, sorry) if not for...ya know, Walking Dead premier soon on my mind.
Well, if the opening episodes hadn't already won me over, this last one definitely did. Lewis Black as a potentially recurring villain? Awesome.
So, I have some questions about the new/old series that I'm hoping some of the more knowledgeable TMNT fans here on FR will be able to help clarify for me.
As I've stated before, I'm coming into this fandom pretty much blind (Heck, I couldn't even keep the names of the four turtles completely straight until last week) but I'm quickly becoming a fan of this series, especially since it's one of the few shows my two year old foster brother will actually sit and watch. From everything I've heard here and elsewhere, it does a great job of boiling down all the different elements from the various versions of the series into one single, cohesive story. However, one fairly substantial change is in the character of April O'Neil, particularly with regards to Donatello.
Now for me, this being the only tmnt property I've invested any time in, it's not something that really bothers me at all. From the outside looking in, that's something that never made any sense: A 30-something woman spending a significant portion of her day hanging out with teenagers? Nope, not creepy in the slightest. I'm also not against Donatello having a crush on her: these characters are supposed to be teenagers, and yet I have been unable to find a single mention of any of the turtles being in any sort of relationship. I mean, I get the whole "ewww, girls have cooties" mentality of the 5-10 year old 80s show audience, but surely one of the many other, more mature adaptations would think to give TEENAGE Mutant Ninja Turtles some manner of relationship drama. I kind of get the whole cross species relationship taboo thing, but given that apparently female turtles are ZOMG HORRIBLE, it's not like there's that many options available on that.
That said though, I really don't know that much about all this. For all I know, the turtles HAVE had relationships before, and I'm just ignorant about the whole thing. I'd be interested to hear everyone's opinions on the matter. Also, as an aside... Venus De Milo and the whole Female Turtle issue. I get that the show she appeared in was rather terrible (It being made by saban pretty much guaranteed that) and that Venus is viewed as an extension of that abomination, but I just don't understand why the idea of a female turtle seems to be so detested by both many fans and series co-creator Peter Laird.
Tom I'll give a few answers but while I've always been a Turtles fan I'm not an expert on all their incarnations.
Firstly I like the April/Donny dynamic and I'm interested to see what they do with it, especially if Casey Jones does appear later on as the creators have promised (Casey being April's traditional love interest in most versions). Donatello is traditionally the Turtle with the least going on so it's a nice change of pace.
The new show is also the first version that I've felt really played up the teenage element of the Turtles. The other versions were pretty light on actual teenage tropes and the Turtles could often be considered young adults.
For the comics my knowledge is limited and largely second hand. I think they've always avoided romance with the Turtles. There might have been something in Volume 4 but I'm not sure.
The original show largely avoided romantic interests as far as I remember. There may have been a one off here or there though.
The live action movies kept the romance to April and Casey, though I think there might have been a little bit of Turtle/human romance in the third film but my memory is hazy.
The live action The Next Mutation, which was the show that introduced Venus, really just toyed with the idea of Turtle romance. I don't remember it going very far. The show really was pretty poor but I actually did like the idea of a female turtle and I'd like to see it attempted again. I'm not really sure why people are so against Turtle romance but I do know part of it is supposed to be a last of their kind element - they don't want baby turtles.
The 2003 show I cant' remember doing anything romantic with the Turtles but did have Casey Jones and April get married by the end.
Hope that helps. Anyway I'm still enjoying the show and I look forward to meeting Baxter Stockman this weekend.
Anyone remember Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles' Adventures? It was my first comic book series that I followed. It started off retelling some of the cartoon episodes in the 80s but diverted into its own stories after half a dozen issues.
Anyway, Ralph had a girlfriend named Ninjara in that series. (Oh and it is also where you can find the much loved Turtle Wrestling Costumes).
So I'm still watching this (over and over and over... did I mention this is the fav show of our two year old foster child?) And I actually got to watch this week's episode when it aired for a change. Really enjoyed this one, especially compared to last episode (again, I don't have the nostalgia factor for whoever Baxter was, and the whole concept of a magical upgrade chip that pulls materials from thin air was downright absurd). We're finally starting to see more of April doing things, the whole arc with Metalhead was good, if a bit predictable.
About the only thing that bothered me when reflecting about the episode, is that the episode treats Donatello's staff as JUST a stick, and the dialogue implies that the notion of upgrading the staff beyond just a stick has never occurred to him before. But that contradicts what we saw in previous episodes... he's popped out blades and made it into a spear, or snapped it apart and used it as a triple nunchuck thing.
Yeah, I know, I'm overthinking it, but again, I've been watching these episodes nonstop lately.
I'm really enjoying the show too.
The one thing that's been bothering me is the use of April, I feel like we skipped an episode with her. They didn't really do a story where she comes to terms with the Turtles, where they live, etc. and setup her status quo, how she's doing without her father etc. This episode helped that as we see she's very much in save her father mode, but this still bugs me.
Yeah, I agree with you on that. I think we're eventually going to have an episode which centers entirely on her (so far we've had each turtle get an ep centered on them) and I know some stuff already from the toy line, but they seem to have rushed past any real background on her in the episodes so far.
Ehh...I'll post a longer piece on this later, but for the moment I thought I'd just jump in and give this show a quick thought. It isn't really grabbing me, from the boring or silly looking villain designs, the painfully stupid portrayal of Michelangelo, to Donatello's fairly creepy crush on April, I'm just not really feeling the magic. There are a lot of things I like about it, the animation, the Shredder/Yoshi dynamic, but for some reason it's just not doing it for me.
Well Benton, I don't know exactly what you're going to say about the show, but here's my counterargument to whatever negative things you have to say about it: Splinter. Splinter is the best mentor ever. Of all time.
I'm kidding obviously (to a point... Splinter is amazing though), but I do think overall the good outweighs the bad. I do wish they'd tone down Mikey's mikeyness a bit and donnie's stalker tendencies, but at the same time I love how they've played leo and raphael, Splinter has been pure gold in all of his scenes, and the interactions between the turtles themselves have been a delight. So while there is certainly stuff for them to improve, I don't mind watching these episodes over and over with our two year old. Better that then Spongebob *shudder*
Haha! Yeah, given those two choices, I think I'd choose the Turtles too. :D For what it's worth, I agree with you 'Mato. They're doing a fantastic job with Splinter. I just watched the Stockman episode (very disappointed with what they've done with 'ol Baxter), and Splinter's interaction with the Turtles was priceless. I definitely like this version of Splinter. Raph and Leo both have potential, but I feel like the writers are hitting one note for both of them, and hitting it hard. I'm liking what IDW is doing with these guys in the comics a great deal more. Raph has anger issues, but he isn't a raging jerk ALL THE TIME.
I've got to say, I'm REALLY disappointed in the villains so far. The design aesthetic for them is really awful. I really miss the Playmate/Fred Wolf creativity.
The side ones are kinda hokey, but I like some of the core villains so far: Splinter, Kraang-droids, and the foot clan. The ones we've only seen toys of so far (dogpound is one of the better mutant designs, our two year old loves the toy) aren't too crazy either.
Quote from: BentonGrey on October 29, 2012, 11:44:50 PM
I've got to say, I'm REALLY disappointed in the villains so far. The design aesthetic for them is really awful. I really miss the Playmate/Fred Wolf creativity.
Many of those classic Playmates/Fred Wolf character designs were actually born out of the minds of talented but lesser-known Mirage Studios talents like Ryan Brown! Peter Laird & Kevin Eastman also had some input in the early designs as well.
Quote from: Tomato on October 18, 2012, 01:15:39 AM
That said though, I really don't know that much about all this. For all I know, the turtles HAVE had relationships before, and I'm just ignorant about the whole thing. I'd be interested to hear everyone's opinions on the matter. Also, as an aside... Venus De Milo and the whole Female Turtle issue. I get that the show she appeared in was rather terrible (It being made by saban pretty much guaranteed that) and that Venus is viewed as an extension of that abomination, but I just don't understand why the idea of a female turtle seems to be so detested by both many fans and series co-creator Peter Laird.
Here's all the TMNT-love interests that come to mind throughout their multi-verse adventures:
Fred Wolf Series:
Michelangelo & Kala the Neutrino (flirtatious)
Raphael & Mona Lisa (one-off appearance, nothing serious)
Irma seems to actually have the hots for Donatello in a joke in one episode, but not really.
There's one episode where three of the Turtles all have a crush on Irma on account of some kind of magic potion... or something.
Mirage Comics:
Leonardo & Radical hook up in their old age before Radical is murdered by her old rival, Carnage.
Michelangelo gets physically intimate with Regenta, an alien dinosaur princess.
Image Comics:
Michelangelo and Horridus are briefly together before she gets interested in other heroes.
Archie Comics:
Raphael goes steady with Ninjara the Fox for over half of the series' run, but they break up in the penultimate story arc.
Next Mutation:
Eh... they all seem to like Venus pretty well.
4Kids cartoon Series:
Donatello has a crush on April and is initially jealous of Casey Jones's advances toward her.
So new episode aired today/yesterday (it's 11:30 pm when I started typing this, I'm on the cusp of tomorrow) and I have one thing to say: FINALLY.
Like Podmark, I've been waiting for them to get around to focusing on April. And while this was mostly just a Donatello episode with an April sub-plot (though it certainly featured her more than "Metalhead") there was a good amount of forward momentum: by the end of the episode, Splinter begins training her to be a Kunoichi (have I mentioned that every scene with Splinter in it is awesome? because really, that scene!) to help develop her empathic abilities. Unfortunately, that plot will likely be put on the backburner next episode, but this was enough to wet my appetite for more April sub-plot going forward.
Yeah Splinter is awesome in this show. Easily the best Splinter ever.
I'm glad they gave us a semi-April centric episode, I'm finally starting to get a good handle on her.
I know you guys aren't keen on Donny's stalker-ish qualities but thus far I find them amusing and somewhat relatable. Hopefully they'll develop that dynamic one way or another before it goes too far. The flow chart cracked me up.
I was fine with that for most of the series (they were quirky and funny and that's always a plus) but "Metalhead" just took that awkwardness and ramped it up to uncomfortable levels. This one wasn't bad tho, loved the flow chart.
This episode was actually pretty decent. They had an excellent villain, a decent mystery, decent character moments, and some clever bits. On the downside, Mikey is still apparently mentally handicapped, and while the Donatello/April thing wasn't quite as creepy in this one, they aren't backing off of it.
I think this approach to Mikey is just great. He isn't just an idiot here (like he's been in previous versions) he's actually pretty aware of his position in the group. Yes, he does play up his mindlessness, but anyone with an immature family member knows that they do this on purpose. They feel like its their 'thing' so they knd of exploit it.
And exploiting someone's preconceptions in order to fit into some kind of role is certainly typical teenage behavior.
I like to keep in mind that since this is a new series, taking place during the beginnings of the TMNT, the turtles need the time to grow into the characters we all know and love. This may seem one-notish at times (like criticisms of Raph's anger) but these teenagers are just starting to develop their personalities.
Look at Leo for instance. He knows he should be the leader, and he's holding up his cartoon heroes as paragons of justice.... His arc will be about learning that everything is not so black and white, and you can't just order your troops around because youre leader.
Eh... I kind of agree with Det about mikey. He's still a bit too comical about it, but I agree that it's probably exaggerated to aggravate his brothers. My younger sister didn't go that far with it, but she was slower to get into reading and doing technical stuff because she always felt like those were "my thing." It's conceivable that mikey has done something similar to separate himself from the others, especially Donnie.
Just got caught up (If you hav missed the last three episdoes check out www.nick.com). And I am loving this show. Some of the minor villians simple designs have been disappointing, but I am enjoying the main characters. Looking forward to more.
How about that epic fight with Spoiler
The Shredder
I can relate on that end Xstream... I've already watched this last episode 3 times because of our two year old.
But yeah, lots of shenanigans this last episode.
Spoiler
Return of April's father, lots of new revelations about the Kraang, the Origins of Dogpound and Fishface, AND the first fight between the Turtles and Shredder himself.
One thing that bugged me:
Spoiler
I didn't like how Kirby O'Neil did the heroic sacrifice and was recaptured. Specifically I didn't think the scenario was good enough, it seemed like something the Turtles could have easily dealt with. I hope they don't try to have April's dad captured until the end of the show, not expecting it but if it does go that way I'll be very disappointed.
Spoiler
they could have dealt with it up until the point where mr o'neil was an idiot and leapt into the middle of the kraang. It was a dumb plot point, but it was also too early to have him escape... I doubt that will happen until the end of the season.
For those not in the loop, new episodes of TMNT start again this Friday, This weeks introduces their version of Rat King, who looks more than a little creepy.
As a toy collector, I can tell you that the series has actually done really well (at least here in the states), because not only has every toy store in the area been mostly sold out of turtle merchandise, the sheer wealth of characters coming out this year is going to end up putting holes in my wallet larger then any other toy line... and I'm including Club IE in that statement.
Quote from: Tomato on January 22, 2013, 09:55:37 PM
As a toy collector, I can tell you that the series has actually done really well (at least here in the states), because not only has every toy store in the area been mostly sold out of turtle merchandise, the sheer wealth of characters coming out this year is going to end up putting holes in my wallet larger then any other toy line... and I'm including Club IE in that statement.
TMNT has always had the edge over most action cartoon shows when it comes to toy sales (at least early on in the line). That's great reason to hope that the Nick series can have a long multi-season run.
Well, I know they're good through at least season 2, so As long as they can keep up the momentum, the series should be fine.
In other news, what did ya'll think of Rat King?
Well, the Rat King has always been one of my favorite TMNT villains...heck, he's one of my favorite TMNT characters, period. I was looking forward to this episode with a mix of excitement and trepidation. It turns out that the trepidation was portentous. I was hugely disappointed in the Rat King. The episode itself was decent, but the Rat King was a big let-down for me. He's a poor man's Phantom of the Opera. Heck, he looks more like a Jesuit than a supervillain. His origin was...well, also something of a disappointment. I've always like the mystery shrouded origin of the 'ol boy. I could have come around on that if his appearance had been a little more impressive and/or classic. While I love the voice work of the fellow they had play him, (he made an amazing Question, after all) I didn't really feel like he was a good voice for the Rat King. It's something of a waste of an amazing voice actor, if you ask me.
I agree with BG, he was a bit too different for my tastes, the new Leatherhead was pretty good though.
One cool thing about the new rat King was the sound of his teeth chattering when he talked. a nice attention to detail there.
I guess I can kind of see where you're coming from. I thought he was a decent villain, and I was surprised that he was the same evil scientist who appeared in Monkey Business. It's actually part of the reason I love this series... they've clearly been taking their time to slowly build up the different members of the turtles' rogues gallery. Dogpound and Fishface, for example, were both built up as human characters for 3 episodes BEFORE getting turned into Mutants, despite that always being the direction those two were intended to go.
That said, I loved the episode primarily because it focused on Splinter. He's been my favorite since the series started, so any episode with him in it is a plus for me.
The next episode premieres Friday night at 7 ET!
Karai will make her much anticipated debut!
Quote from: oldmanwinters on February 01, 2013, 03:57:57 AM
The next episode premieres Friday night at 7 ET!
Spoiler
Miwa will make her much anticipated debut!
Fixed >P
Wait, the show now premiers on Friday? Oi vey!
Quote from: Tomato on February 01, 2013, 04:43:46 AM
Quote from: oldmanwinters on February 01, 2013, 03:57:57 AM
The next episode premieres Friday night at 7 ET!
Spoiler
Miwa will make her much anticipated debut!
Fixed >P
Touche, 'Mato.
the series is enjoyable dark tone but not uber gritty
toy wise i only picked up the 4 turtles classics(superb toys i'd recommend them to anyone) would love the just announced beebop and rocksteady but again like MOTUC space and cost are major problems
Hmm...
Spoiler
As a big fan of Karai from the last show, I'm not really liking her new design. Really excited about seeing her debut though.
I'm quite sure Tomato is right on the money. Really the pre-season press pretty much gave it away.
Now THAT was a good episode! If the entire show was of this quality, I'd be a big fan. The only weak points involved pretty much every other line of dialog that Michelangelo spoke and the old problem of Snake Weed's awful name and less than stellar design. I can understand if some folks aren't fans of the new addition's look, but it doesn't bother me. I understand that this is likely a big departure for this character in terms of interpretation, but since I wasn't very familiar with her, that didn't shake me. The episode itself though was just plain well done. The focus on the cost of leadership was really good, and I loved Raph's moment of clarity, and his realization at the end:
Spoiler
"I have no problem risking my life, but risking my brother's lives....that's something else."
I thought that captured things rather nicely, as it isn't a lack of ability for him, it's a lack of patience and faith in his choices.
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 03, 2013, 09:36:34 PM
The episode itself though was just plain well done. The focus on the cost of leadership was really good, and I loved Raph's moment of clarity, and his realization at the end:
Spoiler
"I have no problem risking my life, but risking my brother's lives....that's something else."
I believe this episode was the single best character study as to why Raphael shouldn't be the leader of the TMNT. Other incarnations have made much of his volatile temper, but other than that there's never been a good argument as to why he wouldn't be capable of organizing missions and battle strategies. But the Nick show really got the heart of the issue like nothing else has been able to... summarized nicely in that particular line of dialogue Benton quoted. Raphael's temper isn't what ultimately inhibits his leadership qualities; rather it's the fact that he values the people he loves more than himself and thus he wouldn't ever force them into taking a risk that he himself wouldn't hesitate to take. It's one thing to throw caution to the wind and barge head first into danger and near-certain doom, but it's quite another thing to tell somebody else to do the same thing.
This show has been on a roll with character development.
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 03, 2013, 09:36:34 PM
Now THAT was a good episode! If the entire show was of this quality, I'd be a big fan. The only weak points involved pretty much every other line of dialog that Michelangelo spoke and the old problem of Snake Weed's awful name and less than stellar design. I can understand if some folks aren't fans of the new addition's look, but it doesn't bother me. I understand that this is likely a big departure for this character in terms of interpretation, but since I wasn't very familiar with her, that didn't shake me. The episode itself though was just plain well done. The focus on the cost of leadership was really good, and I loved Raph's moment of clarity, and his realization at the end:
Spoiler
"I have no problem risking my life, but risking my brother's lives....that's something else."
From what I understand, Kurai is not that big a departure. Yeah, her secret identity is a new twist on it, but from what I've read about her she's almost always shredder's second in command/successor and she usually forms a weird ally/enemy relationship with the four turtles.
Quote from: Tomato on February 05, 2013, 07:54:40 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 03, 2013, 09:36:34 PM
Now THAT was a good episode! If the entire show was of this quality, I'd be a big fan. The only weak points involved pretty much every other line of dialog that Michelangelo spoke and the old problem of Snake Weed's awful name and less than stellar design. I can understand if some folks aren't fans of the new addition's look, but it doesn't bother me. I understand that this is likely a big departure for this character in terms of interpretation, but since I wasn't very familiar with her, that didn't shake me. The episode itself though was just plain well done. The focus on the cost of leadership was really good, and I loved Raph's moment of clarity, and his realization at the end:
Spoiler
"I have no problem risking my life, but risking my brother's lives....that's something else."
From what I understand, Kurai is not that big a departure. Yeah, her secret identity is a new twist on it, but from what I've read about her she's almost always shredder's second in command/successor and she usually forms a weird ally/enemy relationship with the four turtles.
I think the 4Kids cartoon show was the first continuity to portray her as Shredder's daughter/2nd-in-Command. In her original appearance in the City at War storyline, she was actually the leader of the Japanese Foot Clan, which viewed Oroku Saki as an extremist obsessed with personal vendetta. She arrived in New York to try and bring order to the chaos that had ensued after Shredder's death (well... two deaths, actually). At that point in the Mirage Comics, she even had an adult daughter, which suggests she might have actually been Saki's senior:
http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2013/02/tmnt-vol-1-58.html
Her second appearance came in the form of Konami's TMNT Tournament Fighter 1993 video games for SNES and Sega Genesis. In both games, she is the final boss of the Story Mode, again suggesting her independence from and superiority in rank over Shredder.
After the 4Kids adaptation of City at War, however, she's been almost universally portrayed as Saki's "adopted" daughter and loyal subservient.
The next new episode "The Alien Agenda" premieres tonight!
And no, that's not a reference to the first draft of the Michael Bay produced TMNT film! :doh:
Rather, April O'Neil may be having some disciplinary problems at school!
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2013/02/06/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-the-alien-agenda-clip-cassandra-peterson/
Nick just renewed TMNT for a third season.
In less awesome news, the VA for The Krang was announced some time back. *shudder*
Quote from: Tomato on February 28, 2013, 04:29:49 PM
Nick just renewed TMNT for a third season.
Hoo-ray!
Quote from: Tomato on February 28, 2013, 04:29:49 PM
In less awesome news, the VA for The Krang was announced some time back. *shudder*
Oboy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls1YVhcLD2c
Lots of interesting plot twists happened in this weeks episode, but I'm going to bypass that for right now... Did anyone else notice the quality jump? I don't know if it's been in the last few episodes too (I've been watching it low def the last few weeks), but this last episode was noticeably different from the episodes midway into the season. I don't think it's that the models were any different, but the rendering on them was much more fluid and smooth somehow.
Quote from: Tomato on March 02, 2013, 08:27:43 PM
Lots of interesting plot twists happened in this weeks episode, but I'm going to bypass that for right now... Did anyone else notice the quality jump? I don't know if it's been in the last few episodes too (I've been watching it low def the last few weeks), but this last episode was noticeably different from the episodes midway into the season. I don't think it's that the models were any different, but the rendering on them was much more fluid and smooth somehow.
I was especially impressed with they animated Michelangelo retracting fully into his shell and then popping out to do some creative fighting. As far as I know, we've never seen any of the turtles pull off that move in their animated history.
ok going on record here, if they pull a twist ala shredder then i will be severely ticked off
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 05, 2013, 01:16:37 PM
ok going on record here, if they pull a twist ala shredder then i will be severely ticked off
Are you referencing the twist on his identity seen in the 4Kids show?
yes, yes i am. i'd still love to meet the moron that came up with that fart nugget
That would be Peter Laird, the
co-creator of TMNT (http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.ca/2009/01/blast-from-past-139-evil-utrom-designs.html). And the reason was so people familiar with the original lore could still be surprised by the show's plot.
Spoiler
The reason why I like it beyond his reason was that it gives a way for the otherwise street-level Shredder to stand alongside the original canon's other major villains, such as the Triceratons and Savanti Romero by making him a mass murderer who'd been confirmed to have caused the deaths of millions. And many of the fantastic later storylines, such as the Ninja Tribunal and the stuff with Bishop, probably wouldn't have happened if not for that twist. So yeah, I stand by it.
nope sorry still dont buy the reasoning.
its takes a character that has already been established over many many different forms of media as the big bad that could easily hold his own with the other villains, due to his high intellect, experience with both mysticism and technology let alone a personal world spanning army of mutants and ninja warriors all to flush it away to get a reaction of of fans. ohh ohh lets stick an alien in his belly.
dont dress it up thats all the utrom shredder was something that they knew would get a reaction and went with it.
as for making him have an impact over the history, idw has done this perfectly with keeping the character true to his roots and simply adding the idea of reincarnation and destiny of a feud
Quote from: Silver Shocker on March 16, 2013, 05:28:09 PM
That would be Peter Laird, the co-creator of TMNT (http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.ca/2009/01/blast-from-past-139-evil-utrom-designs.html). And the reason was so people familiar with the original lore could still be surprised by the show's plot.
Spoiler
The reason why I like it beyond his reason was that it gives a way for the otherwise street-level Shredder to stand alongside the original canon's other major villains, such as the Triceratons and Savanti Romero by making him a mass murderer who'd been confirmed to have caused the deaths of millions. And many of the fantastic later storylines, such as the Ninja Tribunal and the stuff with Bishop, probably wouldn't have happened if not for that twist. So yeah, I stand by it.
That was a very controversial decision, as evidenced by the various fan opinions. I applaud Laird and the 4Kids team for taking such a risk with a character so popular as Shredder, and I think it worked very well for the overall mythology of that particular show.
The real treat was that this decision allowed the show to get away with showing Leonardo behead the Shredder during their climatic showdown at the end of Return to New York. None of us fans ever thought that bit from the comics was going to get adapted into the show. I remember being half asleep on that Saturday morning a decade ago watching this episode (the arc had kinda dragged on too long in my opinion), but when I saw that scene... man, I was shocked... SHOCKED! (to quote Claude Rains's character from Casablanca).
The biggest downside to that plot twist, in my opinion, is that the reveal quickly turned the Shredder into a joke, a character that could no longer be truly feared because you knew he was just a squid in a robot suit. I think Laird and the 4Kids creative team hoped to use this fact to their advantage and try to prove to the audience that the TMNT didn't need Shredder looming around as the Big Bad every week. They even aspired to remove him completely from the show at the end of Season 3. But I think the later seasons of the show prove just how difficult that task can be. The show (much like the old Mirage Comics) struggled to find its new post-Shredder Big Bad and eventually they started reintroducing new versions of Shredder: Karai Shredder, Tengu Shredder, Cyber Shredder, and even Sh'Okanabo's armor bore a little resemblance to the Shredder suit during the Fast Forward season. I guess the Nick & IDW series will try their hand at having Shredder around without making him the sole Big Bad every week. We shall have to wait and see how it works out.
So noone's talking about this show right now? That's a shame. I'll go first.
Spoiler
I enjoyed the new Karai episode (I just enjoy Karai in general. She's the best thing about this show right now), but I'm disappointing they're going the "Karai's Vengeance" route (literally the name of the next episode) In the first season and her THIRD appearance. At least spread it out. The 2K3 kept that pot simmering for THREE seasons, and that just made it all the sweeter when it happen. Honestly, I think this new show has that problem in general, they play their hand too early. I can't imagine what they're going to have left to do in later seasons
.
The 2k3 was my favorite show of all time when it aired, and if it isn't now, it still stands high in the pantheon along with stuff like Reboot, Beast Wars, Firefly, most of Greg Weisman's shows, Avatar, ect. So you'll understand my need to defend its honor. This is where I get defensive and contrary. Oppa Benton Style.
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on March 16, 2013, 07:28:38 PM
its takes a character that has already been established over many many different forms of media as the big bad that could easily hold his own with the other villains, due to his high intellect, experience with both mysticism and technology let alone a personal world spanning army of mutants and ninja warriors all to flush it away to get a reaction of of fans. ohh ohh lets stick an alien in his belly. [
]
A jaundiced account. Shredder was never as good as you make him sound there.
-80s cartoon Shredder was a saturday morning cartoon villain, plotting, cackling, bickering, and running away with a "I'll get you next time Gadget!". Didn't even fight the turtles in his first appearance, hid behind his equally useless goons. He was on par with Team Rocket from Pokemon (ironic, since Team Rocket has now been portrayed as serious, competent and sinister as late). What mutant army? Far as I remember, every mutant he created other than the first three (Bebob, Rocksteady, and the one punk he turned into a bat in the early episodes) turn on him in seconds. Groundchuck, Dirtbag, and Tatoo all abandoned him in the
same flipping storyline.
-In the Konami video games Shredder was a butt kicker of epic proportions, but that was a beat em up arcade game; the priority was to be challenging, not be true to the tone of the show. Krang and Slash was cheap as all heck in those games too; doesn't mean that's what they were like that in the show.
-Comics Shredder got killed in his first appearance when Donnie knocked
his own grenade back at him. That's some epic fail right there. He came back to life as a result of cloning and "healing worms". Later he became a shark/octopus hybrid thing, real dime-store Lovecraft. And as someone who read the original run of the comic, the first issue was Splinter getting REVENGE and sending his kids to do his dirty work. As such, Shredder's return in the comic carries an unspoken theme of "your past sins come back to haunt you". Eastman and Laird never intended him to be "Space Jesus" (to quote Mr. Plinkett re: Darth Vader). He just got so iconic that everyone came to expect more Shred-Head. Also, the crazy Shredder clones from the 2K3 (including Lobster Shredder and Midget Shredder) were in the comic. I think that does just as much or more to make Shredder harder to take seriously. Someone just got an extreme makeover.
-Live action Shredder fought the Turtles once, beat them, got beaten by Splinter, and fell off a roof. An accurate account of the first fight with 2K3 Shredder. In the second film, he hid behind his goons, fought nobody, and killed himself by accident. That's what we call "Villain Decay". The less said about "The Next Mutation" the better.
[
Quote] dont dress it up thats all the utrom shredder was something that they knew would get a reaction and went with it.
]
I don't "dress it up" as any such thing. I calls it as I sees it. In the parts of the fandom I've seen online, Chrell is considered Numbah 1 Shredder, (with good reason too. In Turtles Forever, he came within an inch of destroying the MULTIVERSE. 80s Shredder plotted to create a "tickle ray" and Mirage Shredder briefly showed up and was promptly knocked off a roof, just like in the comic. I don't see anything wrong with this.) to the point that before this show premiered, people was seriously debating whether the new version will top him (I firmly contend he hasn't. How could he? All he does is sit on his throne Darseid-style).
As for messing with the lore....this is Turtles we're talking about. They can't go five minutes without messing with the lore. There were worse offenders in the OPENING arc of the 80s cartoon, as in the main cast.
Quoteas for making him have an impact over the history, idw has done this perfectly with keeping the character true to his roots and simply adding the idea of reincarnation and destiny of a feud
Now on that we can agree. The IDW version of the comic in general is simply sublime.
QuoteThat was a very controversial decision, as evidenced by the various fan opinions.
Everything about that show was controversial in the eyes of the fans. The theme song, April not being a reporter, the Turtles having brown knee pads and white eyes, the Utroms "being Krang". I wouldn't be surprised someone complained that Baxter Stockman was black! A few years back I seriously saw some cat online write off the show because Mikey made a fart joke in an early episode (ironic, considering he made a fart joke in the latest episode of the Nicktoons show). It wasn't "their" Turtles, implying turtles can only be one thing. It's especially funny since the first live action film had more in common with the 2K3 (since both were based on the comic), yet I've never heard a single person say the first film ruined Turtles.
QuoteThe real treat was that this decision allowed the show to get away with showing Leonardo behead the Shredder during their climatic showdown at the end of Return to New York. None of us fans ever thought that bit from the comics was going to get adapted into the show. I remember being half asleep on that Saturday morning a decade ago watching this episode (the arc had kinda dragged on too long in my opinion), but when I saw that scene... man, I was shocked... SHOCKED! (to quote Claude Rains's character from Casablanca).
And on 4Kids no less. These are the guys who tried to convince kids that the Navy uses squirt guns. And to my knowledge, they've never been topped in that regard until Clone Wars, the Most Violent Cartoon on Tv. Also, see "Same as it Never Was". Undoubtedly my favorite episode of the whole show.
QuoteThe biggest downside to that plot twist, in my opinion, is that the reveal quickly turned the Shredder into a joke, a character that could no longer be truly feared because you knew he was just a squid in a robot suit. I think Laird and the 4Kids creative team hoped to use this fact to their advantage and try to prove to the audience that the TMNT didn't need Shredder looming around as the Big Bad every week. They even aspired to remove him completely from the show at the end of Season 3. But I think the later seasons of the show prove just how difficult that task can be. The show (much like the old Mirage Comics) struggled to find its new post-Shredder Big Bad and eventually they started reintroducing new versions of Shredder: Karai Shredder, Tengu Shredder, Cyber Shredder, and even Sh'Okanabo's armor bore a little resemblance to the Shredder suit during the Fast Forward season. I guess the Nick & IDW series will try their hand at having Shredder around without making him the sole Big Bad every week. We shall have to wait and see how it works out.
Fun fact, there was actually going to be a TRICERATON SHREDDER in Fast Forward. How awesome is that? He would have been revealed to be a Triceraton who'd been possessed by Ch'rell face-hugger style. (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Io7aGQAIDE4/T7z7zBoClTI/AAAAAAAAEBs/T24R56BYrQ8/s1600/TriShredder+on+face.jpg)
I don't feel him being a squid in a suit made him a joke at all. The only time I thought he suffered any significant Villain Decay was Rogue In The House, in which he had a plot to replace the Present of the USA and the Prime Minister of Britain with robots, a cornball plot that could have been pulled straight out the 80's cartoon (or any 80s cartoon for that matter) and didn't ring true to his motivations at all. And yet that episode is absolutely saved by the growing Leo/Karai dynamic, the awesomeness of Zog, and Baxter Stockman once again cheating death (man, why doesn't he do that stuff in the new one?) Him being a squid didn't stop him from beating the turtles black and blue in the finale of season 3. And anyone who thinks this Shredder was a joke needs to drop everything right now and watch "Same as it Never Was", if they haven't already.
As for season 4, season 4 and 5 (the Ninja Tribunal season) are actually my favorite seasons. In the absence of Shredder, Karai, Bishop and even Hun really stepped up. Karai as the Shredder in her first appearance was all sorts of awesome, though her next appearance was pretty darn embarrassing. I've always held season 4 as a firm example that you don't need to rely on Shredder nonstop to tell good stories, and really, why would you? He's been played out. Give us something new.
Raising this thread from the dead thanks to some great bits slipped into this week's episode.
At one point, April, Casey, and the Turtles are in a place filled with portals to other dimensions. Looking into one of the portals they see... 80's animated TMNT world. Not done in CG, but done in all it's cell-shaded glory.
Quote
Mikey (after concluding that these are alternate thems):"We look like dorks"
April (sees 80's April): Is that supposed to be me?
Don (enjoying the view): Nice jumpsuit...
Then the episodes final stinger
Spoiler
The team wonders where the giant worm ends up... and we cut to 80's TMNT world where, you guessed it, the worm shows up. THIS time, al of the 80's turtles have lines, sounding kinda close to their original selves. Admittedly, I have no idea if they got the original actors for them (except for Raph, who's already in the voice cast) but I have to admit a fangirl SQUEE moment there.
Love this show, even the new takes on some of the characters I like. Loved the 80's part of the last episode.
Shredder and Splinter here are prolly my favorite versions of the characters.
Quote from: Glitch Girl on March 15, 2014, 02:53:04 PM
Raising this thread from the dead thanks to some great bits slipped into this week's episode.
At one point, April, Casey, and the Turtles are in a place filled with portals to other dimensions. Looking into one of the portals they see... 80's animated TMNT world. Not done in CG, but done in all it's cell-shaded glory.
Quote
Mikey (after concluding that these are alternate thems):"We look like dorks"
April (sees 80's April): Is that supposed to be me?
Don (enjoying the view): Nice jumpsuit...
Then the episodes final stinger Spoiler
The team wonders where the giant worm ends up... and we cut to 80's TMNT world where, you guessed it, the worm shows up. THIS time, al of the 80's turtles have lines, sounding kinda close to their original selves. Admittedly, I have no idea if they got the original actors for them (except for Raph, who's already in the voice cast) but I have to admit a fangirl SQUEE moment there.
Those were indeed the original voice actors! Also, I think they mixed up Townsend Coleman and Barry Grossman in the credits.
Cam Clarke seemed the most out of practice with his Leonardo voice; it was weird because the turtles were drawn similar to their Season 1 look but Clarke sounded like he was trying to use his later season voice range for Leo.
Okay, had several major fangirl moments during the most recent episode.
The episode was a big ol' nod to Big Trouble in Little China featuring Lo Pan Ho Chan voice by James Hong. They even did the finger bit where he's controlling his minions Thunder, Wind, and Lightning (complete with the big hats).
Haven't seen the latest episode yet, but that last chunk have been impressive.
Spoiler
All the episodes with Karai learning her true identity and the mutation definitely kept me interested. I was initially disappointed with the mutation but I'll reserve my judgement until I see it play out.
Very happy with this show, but the ongoing plots and the villains could use some work. The Kraang are kinda throwaway at this point. And I found the squandered a lot of story revolving around April.
You know, I've tried to like this show. And what I like about it I really like. However there are a few things that continue to bug me about the show.
Most of which are the mutations. For the most part the villain's mutationsSpoiler
(including Karai)
So I just saw the Season 2 finale, and man was it good. Much better than the season 1 finale, and unlike that season, this one really has me looking forward to seeing where they go from here with the various plot points.
Spoilers ahoy:
Spoiler
-Irma was a Kraang? I did not see that coming! I'm kinda hoping the creators take advantage of the character model and bring back the "real" Irma, because I really liked this show's version of the character.
-GILBERT GOTFRIED AS KRANG SUB-PRIME WAS FULL OF WIN. I KINDA HOPE HE'S NOT REALLY DEAD.
-I really hate that they turned Karai into a serpent, but I'm glad they have her turn back and forth Demona style. The current plot with her is interesting though. The lack of Kelly Hu in the actual episode was a disappointment.
-Kirby O'Neal got mutated and written out AGAIN. Super lame!
-We need to see Casey's family in person at some point.
-Leatherhead was awesome in this. And he could totally could come back from that.
-The Earth Protection Force showed up! For those who don't know, the EPF was Agent Bishop's organization in the 2K3 show. I'm anxiously waiting to see if he shows up in season 3.
The season 3 opener has already aired but wanted to mention a few things:
- Leo got a voice recast - he's now voiced by Seth Green. The fact he sounds different is addressed in the show.
- They are currently staying at a farmhouse and the tub is used for recovery, a la the original TMNT movie.
- TONS of slasher movie tropes in the opening episode
- The following episode featuring Bigfoot was far less satisfying sadly, but we'll see where they go.
^ In America, yes. I've been been watching it on Canadian tv so it's a few episodes behind. They're supposed to start s3 this week. I read about the plots of the first three or so episodes so I knew it wasn't anything too exciting. I did see a preview clip of Seth Green as Leo though, and he sounded alright, though noticeably different. Jason Biggs (American Pie) was a great Leo, and him having a stand-in for the back half of season 2 hurt the show a bit, so this is probably for the best. I love Seth Green in most of his other stuff (his role on Hulk excluded), but he usually such a comedy actor so I'm looking forward to seeing him handle some heavier material as Leo.
Upcoming announcements for the show:
-Napoleon Bonafrog will be showing up
-Mondo Gecko will be showing up, voiced by Robbie Rist, the voice of Michealangelo from the original Live Action Turtles movies. I think that's neat.
-The creators have said that Fishface will not be mutating into Tokka, but they're not opposed to Tokka.
-Muckman will apparently be showing up in the future.
I'm way behind on this show (only being able to watch it when I'm at home on the weekends and the wife is busy, as she doesn't like it at all), so take this with the appropriate portions of salt:
I'm more or less in the same boat as XStream, here. I actually like a lot of things about this show but can't really get onboard with it. The writing is clever at least a little more often than not, there are some genuinely good character moments, and the animation is generally quite good. The villains actually manage (other than the Krang) to be somewhat menacing too, and that helps keep the show interesting as an adult. Yet, despite all of that, just about every episode I watch ends up annoying me to no end. It's like reading a comic written by Kurt Busiek but drawn by Rob Leifield.
I hate, not just dislike, not just 'am not crazy about,' but actively hate pretty much every new character design they introduce. The Turtles themselves looks great, as does Splinter. April is fine, the Foot look good, and even though Shredder looks a bit goofy, I can live with him. Therein lies every positive thing I could say about the show's aesthetic. Every mutant they introduce is terrible looking, hideous and at the same time forgettable. I think it has a lot to do with their obsession with making everything asymmetrical. The charming grotesqueness of the original 'toon and toyline (so ugly they're cute) is completely absent here, in both the looks and the names of the various mutant characters. Of course, this is doubly a shame since the toys they are putting out are awesome in quality. I mean, just look at this slice of 80s awesomeness:
http://myyardsalepick.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/sam_9738.jpg
Hence, here we are, about to have some of my favorite character reintroduced, and all I can think is, 'Holy Hannah, what kind of hatchet job are they going to do on the Punk Frogs?' It's a real shame, because if they'd just fire whoever the heck is in their art director, this series could be really, REALLY great.
Ohh, and I hate Casey Jones' gap-toothed design so much, I want to knock out the REST of his teeth. :P
Benton, I believe I have all but seven of the figures in your picture :)
Quote from: Podmark on October 15, 2014, 02:41:29 AM
Benton, I believe I have all but seven of the figures in your picture :)
Ha, awesome Pod! At one time, I'm pretty sure I had all of them except for Rahzar and Slash! :D
I have a whole bunch of figures you don't have pictured, plus many of the vehicles and playsets. I was huge on Turtles as a kid.
It's possible I was, and still am, a humongous Turtles fan!:
http://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/further-projects-from-the-ether/
Did you ever play my TMNT mod, Pod?
I didn't even know that version of Slash with the silver legs existed. Is that a real figure or a fan-modified one?
I haven't had the problem with the mutant character designs others here have had, but I will say Dogpound's design always bothered me. He's big and bulky, with one huge arm, and a disproportionately large head, like a bad sprite from a old video game. I also prefer Bradford as a more agile fighter (he did after all, start out as Chuck Norris). On that note, while the new Rahzer design is bizarre and ghoulish, I still greatly prefer that one to Dogpound.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on October 16, 2014, 12:55:48 AM
On that note, while the new Rahzer design is bizarre and ghoulish, I still greatly prefer that one to Dogpound.
Agreed. Dogpound's design was one of the worst, though for my money, Mr. O'Neil's bat-mutation was THE worst. Yeah, I think that version of Slash is real. I seem to remember there being more than one.
Quote from: BentonGrey on October 15, 2014, 04:04:58 AM
Did you ever play my TMNT mod, Pod?
Not yet. Haven't spent any time on mods for a long time. I'll have to make some time one day.
Quote from: BentonGrey on October 16, 2014, 01:38:50 AM
Agreed. Dogpound's design was one of the worst, though for my money, Mr. O'Neil's bat-mutation was THE worst. Yeah, I think that version of Slash is real. I seem to remember there being more than one.
Admittedly I'm pretty sure Kirby's mutation was supposed to look terrible. It's all about a tragic turn for the character that he must be saved from.
I liked Dogpound for what he was. Fish Face is the one I don't like, and some of the throwaway villains like Spiderbite. Rahzer has a cool design.
Quote from: Podmark on October 16, 2014, 04:09:35 AM
Not yet. Haven't spent any time on mods for a long time. I'll have to make some time one day.
Ohh man, I have to say, if you're a fan of the classic Turtles, you might be missing out! ;)
Quote from: Podmark on October 16, 2014, 04:09:35 AM
Admittedly I'm pretty sure Kirby's mutation was supposed to look terrible. It's all about a tragic turn for the character that he must be saved from.
I liked Dogpound for what he was. Fish Face is the one I don't like, and some of the throwaway villains like Spiderbite. Rahzer has a cool design.
Urg. Kirby's supposed to look terrible, but it just looks sloppy, not horrifying....well...not INTENTIONALLY horrifying. It's just a terrible, terrible design.
I don't care for any of them, but Rahzer is a lot more tolerable now.
I just saw the episode where the Newt guy teams up with Slash, and I was reminded that I actually don't mind the lizard fellow's design. It's pretty solid, though not anything amazing. Slash just looks overly-sized and silly. The episode itself was pretty good, though.
:EDIT: Anyone else creeped out by Mikey eating a sentient being in the "Pizza Face" episode?
Quote from: BentonGrey on October 18, 2014, 04:39:34 AM:EDIT: Anyone else creeped out by Mikey eating a sentient being in the "Pizza Face" episode?
Yes! Stuff like that always gives me the creeps.
It's ok. That episode may or may not have been a dream. It's not entirely clear.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on October 19, 2014, 11:30:57 PM
It's ok. That episode may or may not have been a dream. It's not entirely clear.
:blink:
I did have all of those figures except the silver-legged Slash and the Bebop and Rocksteady (had the original though, I see him in the pic too) in that picture... and that red bull, but I remember my best friend had it!
I enjoy the story of this show, a great deal actually. I love the designs of the core team. But I hate how the mutagen affected all the mutants. I'm thinking that as the Krang have perfected the mutagen it has made the mutations worse...
Take Spider-byte... This could have been a very cool and creepy looking character. But instead it looks like a Pokemon or something. What sense does the sphere with legs that make him look more like a hand make? And he is so cartoonish...
Dogpound was.... well meh. I was glad to see the change into Razar (however they spell it), but even that change doesn't look quite right when you consider the original character model. There is no way that narrow skull was under the ma-hunkin head.
And then there was the snake character introduced at the end of season two (yes, I know who it is. Trying to stay spoiler free)... Snake hands? Who asked their three year old to design such an important character to the show's storyline?
Wait, and then they get very realistic looking on Baxter's mutation... What's up with that!?
I do actually enjoy the show, but my family hates it. We watch the first four episodes on DVD but that's it. The show is too scary for my little ones, and it annoys my wife. Now, this is coming from a family who watches the 80's toon and 2k3 all the time. My two year old can sing the original theme song and can probably sing more of the 2k3 song than I can (although I can get the counting part pretty easily...).
Maybe I am asking too much from a very popular show, but the only place I feel the show really lacks are in the mutant designs. Their turtles look like turtles, their rats look like rats, but spiders look like pokemon, and Spike/Slash looks like a muppet...
Speaking of scary, that last episode introducing April's mom was pure nightmare fuel.
Yep XS, I pretty much wholeheartedly agree.
:EDIT: Oddly enough, my wife hates the show, but not for any of the reasons that you might expect. She just hates the animation. She says that the Turtles are 'sharp and boxy, and that is stupid.' Ha, Lady Grey tends to get hung up on minor details.
I love the show. Good balance between humour and some serious stuff from time to time. Love shredder and Splinter here. Def one of my favorite incarnation of the turtles as a whole.
Quote from: XStream on October 22, 2014, 04:05:55 AM
Quote from: Silver Shocker on October 19, 2014, 11:30:57 PM
It's ok. That episode may or may not have been a dream. It's not entirely clear.
:blink:
Take Spider-byte... This could have been a very cool and creepy looking character. But instead it looks like a Pokemon or something. What sense does the sphere with legs that make him look more like a hand make? And he is so cartoonish...
I agree. It think it's neat that he was voiced by comedian Lewis Black (though I'm not personally familiar with his material) but otherwise the villain's a complete joke. Probably the weakest foe in the show along with Snakeweed.
And then there was the snake character introduced at the end of season two (yes, I know who it is. Trying to stay spoiler free)... [/quote]
You actually spoiled it several posts up. You might want to edit that, not everyone's caught up. I didn't realize Benton was as behind as he is, for one. That's not the end of season 2 by the way. The show went on hiatus for a while while the movie was coming out. The s2 finale was a two parter called "Invasion" (I talk about it in an earlier post).
QuoteWait, and then they get very realistic looking on Baxter's mutation... What's up with that!?
Baxter was weird, but I kinda like how they did him, it makes him extra pitiful. I felt sorry for him in that episode.
I caught up a lot this week. I think I'm only 3 episodes behind now, but I'll get further behind as I won't be able to go home for the next two weeks.
Also, the classic version of The Fly was plenty pitiful, especially with that voice:
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081124213915/tmnt/images/a/a4/Baxter_the_Fly.jpg
I'll take that over this version any day. :P
Quote from: Silver Shocker on October 23, 2014, 12:23:38 AM
You actually spoiled it several posts up. You might want to edit that, not everyone's caught up. I didn't realize Benton was as behind as he is, for one.
:blink:
Edited. Sorry about that. Hope I didn't spoil anything for anybody.
I do want to reiterate that for the most part I do enjoy the show. I believe the story and characterization is one of my favorite interpretations of the characters. And as much as I dispise some of the designs, there are also some really good ones. I like Metalhead, Leatherhead, that Newt guy, Tigerclaw, and many others. It just seems that some of the designs should not exist next to one another... if that makes sense.
Case in point; Leo, Raph, and Donnie all have this sharp edge around their head model... it is placed in a different place to create some distinction in the turtles heads. Mikey lacks this ridge... and it bugs me. Sometimes I wish they all had more rounded faces like Mikey (which I believe they did to create a more youthful design to reflect his maturity) and sometimes I wish Mikey had one somewhere just for consistency...
Now, I am doing it again. I do really like this show... I promise.
Quote from: BentonGrey on October 23, 2014, 01:01:47 AM
I caught up a lot this week. I think I'm only 3 episodes behind now, but I'll get further behind as I won't be able to go home for the next two weeks.
Also, the classic version of The Fly was plenty pitiful, especially with that voice:
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081124213915/tmnt/images/a/a4/Baxter_the_Fly.jpg
I'll take that over this version any day. :P
You know Benton, I've seen that episode a few times recently and talk about a show with some plot holes. Krang couldn't send Bebop and Rocksteady to earth without something coming through the portal first... So Shredder throws little ol' Stockman in exchange for two massive mutants. I guess there was no need in equal a mass going through the portal. Then after Stockman is turned into a fly mutant (in an incinerator!) he flies through the portal on his own... One of the few times I felt the show writers were a little lazy. Man I still love that show. I need to pick up season 4 soon.
Haha, yeah, a lot of the old 'toon episodes had plot holes. The first season is pretty excellent, but they really did get lazy after that, to point of contradicting themselves within the same episode in later seasons! :P
As for this show, I do want to say, I LOVE the hilarious parody versions of classic cartoons/shows. The latest one with the Thundarr the Barbarian reference had me laughing out loud.
"We the slug people bring you greetings and gifts of..."
"Kill them!"
Ha! They really capture that 60s animation style perfectly.
Thundarr was late 70's, early 80's, Benton. Trust me on this* ;)
But yeah, they did capture it perfectly. Down to the title cards. That was hilarious.
*- remembers getting up early on saturday as a kid and watching it among many other things... RIP Saturday Morning Cartoons, you will be missed.
Rasputin... Gosh!!!
Idiots!
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/tmnt-TheCroakingEasterEggs_zps2e6300e0.jpg) (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/slimer2erasmus/media/tmnt-TheCroakingEasterEggs_zps2e6300e0.jpg.html)
Quote from: oldmanwinters on November 08, 2014, 08:46:07 PM
Rasputin... Gosh!!!
Idiots!
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/tmnt-TheCroakingEasterEggs_zps2e6300e0.jpg) (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/slimer2erasmus/media/tmnt-TheCroakingEasterEggs_zps2e6300e0.jpg.html)
Oh, lord!
He's back!
Spoiler
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--3pWINu3P--/670952725224196785.jpg)
Hurray for Napoleon Bonafrog, though! :D
I'm still not sure how they managed to do riffs on Napoleon Dynamite, Apocalypse Now,adn classic original TMNT all at the same time. :)
Quote from: Glitch Girl on November 08, 2014, 09:09:18 PM
I'm still not sure how they managed to do riffs on Napoleon Dynamite, Apocalypse Now,adn classic original TMNT all at the same time. :)
The horror.... the horror...
From SDCC 2015 via CBR:
QuoteDuring Nickelodeon's panel at San Diego Comic-Con, the panel announced some guest stars who will appear in the show's fifth season.
TMNT Season 3 premieres on August 2 at 11am PT. Last month, TMNT was renewed for a fourth season, where comedian Seth Green will replace Jason Biggs as the voice of Leonardo. Both Season 4 and 5 will include 20 episodes.
Some of the guest stars are:
David Tennant (Dr. Who) guest stars as The Fugitoid who was once an alien scientist named Dr. Honeycutt, but after his body was destroyed, his brain was saved and placed into the body of a robot.
Peter Stormare (Fargo) guest stars as Lord Dregg, an arrogant, insectoid crime lord. When the Turtles incur his wrath, he becomes one of their most dangerous enemies.
Michael Dorn (Star Trek) stars as Captain Mozar, the supreme Commander of the Triceraton Fleet. He is a cunning and brutal military commander who answers only to the Triceraton Emperor.
Other stars include "Lance Henriksen (Aliens) as Zog, a scout for the alien Triceraton army; Ron Perlman (Sons of Anarchy) as Armaggon, a vicious, bounty-hunter robo-shark with a taste for turtle; and Zelda Williams (The Legend of Korra) as fan-favorite Mona Lisa, a highly skilled Salamandrian warrior."
Yeah! Worf as a Triceraton and Perlman as Armaggon. Sign me up.
Gah...see...so much of this sounds awesome, and this show is so often ALMOST awesome....
Seeing Armaggon show up would be amazing...but I imagine it will fall short, like most of their adaptations. :(
The voice casting is interesting, though.
Too each their own. I'm fortunate again I guess to not be anchored to any specific version (uncertain which is " original " for whom here even, it's hard to tell with Turtles) rather when I came in it was straddling multiple versions (Mirage, 80's cartoon, 1st movie, video games and Archies respectively) so I developed an appreciation whichever version contained the characters spiritually and kept it from the to now. Really it may be the sole franchise I can think of that I can do that with? Either way I think the show is awesome and crave the new episodes like I do the new comic issues. MOAR!!!
Yeah, those guest stars sound awesome. David Tennant as the Fugitoid is perfect casting.
I'm still really enjoying the show. It's got some ups and downs (the farm arc was especially frustrating to get through for me) and I wish it dialed down the humor a bit but I really get into the more serious plots.
So... did anybody see the shocking season 3 finale? There were a couple of twists that I didn't expect at all. Fortunately, season 4 starts in October, so we won't have to be left hanging for too long.
No I haven't, because Canada gets the episodes a week late because
f you that's why. I am psyched for it though and did read one really cool spoiler in advance (which I'll touch on below). I can say though, that the Zog episode was great.
Spoiler for Dinosaurs In The Sewers:
Spoiler
Loved the Ghostbusters 2 references (Venkman was here!) and as a fan of the 2003 series having Raph befriend Zog instead of Mikey and Zog revert to a bad guy in the end was a refreshing change. The last few minutes were genuinely chilling and have me psyched up for some Turtles in Space action.
Spoiler for S3 finale:
Spoiler
When I read that 2003 series fan-favorite (and one of my personal favorites) Agent Bishop was going to appear, and that he'd be a rogue Kraang (referred to an "Utrom") I was ecstatic. But then the episode came out and I learned more. Voiced by Nolan North, same as the regular Kraang? Lame. Having the exact same design as the regular Krang disguises but with sunglasses? Really lame. On the other hand, the chess piece calling card and the reference to Kraang Sub-Prime? Awesome.
I suppose I've pretty much given up on this series. Maybe I'll give it another shot with season 4.
Benton, IMO the show's at its best when it does the more serious plots, and this season has been very uneven in that regard. The show gets into a pattern of show a whole bunch of childish comedic filler, show one or two episodes that move the plot forward at a time, save an epic two-parter for the middle and very end, rinse and repeat. It's very frustrating because of that, because I don't find the comedic fillers all that funny. I want it to be awesome all of the time, instead of just some of the time. So the show in general is very hit or miss for me.
So I've been watching season 4 and so far I like it a lot better than the farm arc in season 3. David Tennant is still marvelous as the Fugitoid. He's as perfect a casting choice as voice acting gets.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on November 27, 2015, 08:48:36 AM
So I've been watching season 4 and so far I like it a lot better than the farm arc in season 3. David Tennant is still marvelous as the Fugitoid. He's as perfect a casting choice as voice acting gets.
Oh, yeah, this is the most interesting take we've ever seen on the Fugitoid BY FAR compared to his other incarnations in TMNT media. Somehow Tennant pulls off that rare feat of playing the character similar enough to his roots but simultaneously putting his own unique artistic imprint upon him. As far as I'm concerned, he now owns the character.
So since I was discussing this show in another thread, I decided to bump this up because the show's coming back with new episodes starting TOMORROW in the U.S., so look forward to that.
It's going to be City At War. Yessir. And from the grainy ripped promo clips that leaked online, and the episode descriptions, it looks like they're going to be straight-up adapting elements of IDW's City Fall arc. Karai's coming back too. To quote Baxter Stockman "This is gonna be good!"
I recently rediscovered my love for TMNT,and I watched the first 2 seasons of this version.And I was not exactly amused.Turtles are all jerks.They all freaking hate Mikey for some reason.Donatello is a creepy stalker for April.Also everyone is younger and hipper.Because thats kewl.Splinter is stripped of his snark and pretty much everything that made him interesting.And now hes Hamato Yoshi,just like in the 80's cartoon.The pretty much has no continuity between episodes.And every episode follows the exact same pattern.Turtles argue,Splinter says something wise,they learn the value of teamwork.Until the next episode when they repeat the whole thing.
On the other hand;Rat Kings episodes were probably the best ones around,and Newtralizer was kinda cool I guess.Slash showed promise.
Well Spade, while I can't really argue with any of the other points, I disagree with you on Splinter. IMO this version of Splinter is the best version they've ever done. He's funny, ("THE CHEESE PHONE!") he comes off as genuinely wise, he can kick butt, I love Hoon Lee's performance of the character, and he lacks the senile old man humor that the 4Kids version often delved into.
As for your assessment of the show up to that point, I mentioned this in a different thread, but the show gets better from there. The episodes you singled out as being good in all ones I liked. The season 2 finale is where things get really good, but after that the show becomes a Walking Dead-esque mixed bag. It's either really good (pretty much anything involving Shredder and Karai, and the outer space stuff with David Tennant's Fugitoid) or frustratingly childish (all but about 2 or so episodes of the farm arc). If you don't like the show now, you're going to HATE the farm arc. I actually would recommend people who had trouble getting past S2 to skip every episode of the farm arc except the first one, the last one, and the one about April's mom.
I agree with SS about Splinter. Pretty much everything else is spot on. The show is a master class in wasted potential (not having seen the later episodes that SS praises). There's so much there that is great, but it is all diluted and misused.
Its just that I found this Splinter a bit bland.And I felt that the parenthood triangle with Shredder was tacked on.But thats the least of the problems I have with the show.
My biggest problem is that it lacks a strong storyline.I guess the idea is that the kids can just tune in to any episode.But it gets really annoying when you watch a few episodes in bulk.
See, I really liked the stuff with Splinter, Shredder and Karai. I found it added a personal angle to the Shredder-Splinter conflict that keeps things from getting too stale. Earlier in this thread, during the first season, I complained that Shredder was too hands off, and I don't really have that problem after the S1 finale or so. The nice thing is Shredder's never a comic relief villain (like the original cartoon) and he never really gets handed any kind of definitive defeat (like pretty much every other iteration of the franchise) so unlike, say, the 4Kids show, where he'd die, come back, lather, rinse and repeat, here they managed to keep him from losing too much currency 4 seasons in now. I honestly expected Shredder to be defeated at this point.
For the record, I still haven't seen the City at War episodes because Canada is absurdly behind for some asinine reason, so I'm only talking about the parts of the show I have seen so far. I know there's some "filler"-type episodes thrown in the middle there, but really that's not a surprise.
On a related note, a Youtube reviewer I watch got into Star Wars Rebels, and because it's a bit of continuation of Clone Wars he directed his viewers to a really cool chart that tells you what storylines you need to watch for the show, and which one's are basically throwaway filler you can skip. It's totally the kind of thing I either wanted myself or someone else to make, and I feel like it definitely can be applied to this TMNT show. I wonder if someone's made one yet.
Actually,I would say that '03 Shredder managed to stay a danger thru the whole series.He comes very close to killing the turtles in every fight they have.Final fight with the Shredder(Exodus,not counting Turtles Forever),sets them all in body casts.It takes a good part of season 4 for Leo to recover from PTSD of that fight.And things progressed with Karai becoming the new Shredder,and Hun building his own criminal empire.And being that 2003 version stuck pretty closely to original comics,dying and coming back isn't all that odd for Shredder.
This version doesn't fight the turtles all that often.He mostly threatens his minions and yells: HAMATO YOSHI!And even when he does do something,he just sends some new mutant after them.I admit,at least the Shredder/Splinter plot leads somewhere,unlike almost everything else.April being half-alien?Never mentioned again.Squirrelnoids?Pizzaface?IMO that was the worst episode in the two seasons.Dogpound evolving to Rahzar?A 2-part build up for the cameo of '87 turtles?Okay we did learn where the ooze comes from,but its still a build up for a 30 seconds sight gag.Almost nothing here ends up making any sort of impact.There are no consequences of anything.Its basically the Simpsons formula of somebody does something trivial-it escalates-its sorted out-status quo restored-end episode.So the next episode can repeat it all again.
Yeah, don't get me wrong I sounded way more negative than I should have regarding 2003 Shredder (who I've defended many times, including in the early pages of this thread) All I really meant to say is that the Turtles did hand him defeats several times. This Shredder didn't really get defeated (the closest as of where I am is the end of the Outer Space arc), they just foil a minor plan by him. For example, the turtles haven't defeated him in combat (mind you, they don't end up fighting him that often, but they never cut his head off or anything)
As for your other comment: i do agree, the Squirrelnoids and Pizzaface were both a low point. Generally anything where Mikey gets the spotlight irritates me. Ironic, because I always enjoyed the superhero stuff with Mikey in the 2003 (actually, I just found out one of the newest episodes is a Mikey superhero-themed episode) April's alien heritage is used more later on, the 87 Turtles get a MUCH more elaborate crossover episode in season 4 (which never got mentioned in this thread, giving a real sense of how much discussion of the show had died out). The second half of season 3 and the outer space arc in season 4 have a good deal more direction (though not without their done-in-one filler style episodes). If you don't like the show by the end of S2, you're probably never going to warm up to it. The S2 finale was pretty much what won me over. Which is why the farm arc peeved me off so much. It felt like 98% of the show was put on hold, the TMNT version of a filler saga.
I saw that there was a crossover with '87 turtles,I just felt their cameo in Wormquake was...a bizarre moment.And I will probably continue watching when I find some time.Because they can be fun sometimes after all.And okay,finale of S2 was good.Again,what bothered me was the formulaic nature of almost every episode,and the reset button at the end of almost every episode.
I guess it pretty much impossible,but I wonder how a crossover with 2003 series would look like.
I'm a big fan of the show, but for some reason my favorite episodes and story arcs seem to be the ones that many other fans dislike the most.
The Farmhouse arc of Season 3 Pt.1 and the Dimension X/Space arc of Season 4,Pt.1 for instance... I couldn't get enough of 'em, but many other fans be like... "Ugg, let's get back to New York!"
Eh, to each their own, I suppose.
Characterization wise, I think Nick Leo is possibly the most interesting version of the character, as it actually gives him idiosyncrasies and hobbies beyond just being the perfect student who likes to give orders.
I think Nick Mikey is funny and charming, and probably much more competent than the other characters give him credit for... having suffered through Mikey's self-implosion of maturity in the last few seasons of the 4Kids TMNT cartoon, I've developed a very high tolerance for when Mikey becomes insufferable. Personally, I think it's hilarious how he names all of the villains, even if a few of them seem way too convenient.
Donatello, I'll admit, I was never a fan of having him crush/stalk over April... poor gal. But when he's not being awful in that area, he's probably my favorite turtle to watch work or talk. Much of that probably has to do with Rob Paulson's performance. If they could mature him enough to move past the "April is my one true love," I'd be perfectly happy.
Raphael is played a little too close to his tough-guy stereotype seen in other incarnations of the franchise of the last 15 years or so, but I think Sean Astin does a great job voicing him. And this Raph at least seems fairly self-aware of his anger/rebel streaks. For the most part, he comes across and laid-back with many more interests beyond fighting. It's when he thinks the other Turtles are neglecting some kind of duty that he gets irritable.
The new Casey Jones is played a little too dumb at times, which I don't ever like to see. The new April is played a little bit too "Mary Sue" but it will be interesting to see where she ends up at the end of Season 4 due to her evident corruption courtesy of the Aeon crystal and her mental powers. I really love the new Splinter and find Karai a very fun character to watch.
I like that the show isn't afraid to introduce new mutants and re-interpretations of older obscure characters.
The villains can be a little bland in their motivations, especially Shredder (although I liked the fact that he genuinely seemed to care about Karai despite kidnapping her and lying her entire life). The new Bebop and Rocksteady crack me up, even though I think the characters work a little better as street punks. Chris Bradford was cooler before he mutated and mutated again. Fishface has made me laugh at times and he has a great design. I wish Baxter the Fly had more personal motivation and maybe background. Tigerclaw is pretty vanilla but he still works as a believable threat in a fight. The Kraang were always amusing to me, even if their original plotline has basically played out. I was glad to see the Space Arc introduced the idea of the Utroms which were the uncorrupted version of their species. Speaking of the Space Arc, man, that was probably my favorite era of the show to date.
Like I said before... BEST Fugitoid EVER.
Now all that said, I still prefer the tone of the Fred Wolf series, even if the animation and writing weren't always up-to-par. I think the FW Turtles and their supporting cast are the kind of characters I would actually be comfortable hanging out with.... any other version of the Turtles would either start to aggravate me or worry me about some kind of major crisis disfiguring me beyond recognition. Even the old Channel Six News crew subplots which I'm sure many fans hate... I find them hilarious as I get older. And despite the formulaic nature of many villain plots, it's quite endearing to see the bickering family dynamic that Shredder, Krang, Rocksteady and Bebop had. The home life of the Turtles themselves seem the most desirable. You have a wise and serious Splinter who can still use humor but often motivates his students with subtlety rather than threatening to whip them into shape. And the Turtles seem to have general self-motivation to train and develop their individual gifts and interests, with the possible exception of Michelangelo. I love the way they always call each other by their full names rather than the abbreviations made famous by the first live-action movie. I really like the way the full names sound when voiced by somebody like Peter Renaday or the late James Avery.
The comparison with 4Kids version seems unavoidable.Because they are almost nothing alike,I guess.
I dont see whats so changed about Leo,other then the fact he like SF shows now.And even that is phased out soon.
In 4Kids series,Raphs anger issues come to front when he beats up Mikey during training.Here,because he argued with a random guy.Im not a fan of that episode either.Splinter forbids them to use violence to get the phone.Forgeting their lives are at stake here?And nobody ever thinks they could just STEAL it?
In the 4Kids version;when Leo is injured,they stay with him and tell him why they need him.Here,they stick him in a tub and move on.Except Raph,nobody else shows anything resembling concern.Thou Friday13 parody/Bloodsucker allusion of the episode was funny.
Oh boy...so much to respond to.....It's on baby!
Winters:-I really liked the space arc. It had some done-in-one style stories, and some forced comedy, and Casey was at his absolute most annoying, but pretty much everything else I loved. Fugitoid, The Triceratons, KRANG SUB PRIME!, Salcommander and Mona Lisa. Heck, Lord Dregg was decent. it had a Mr Mxysptlk stand-in voiced by Dwight Schultz. How can I complain?
Farm Arc I can't get behind. The three episodes I mentioned were fine. But it was mostly an excuse to fill the front half of the season with Mikey humor and horror homages and I'm just not a big fan of either. And like I said, about 3 episodes of it or so actually contribute anything. You really can't say that about the space arc.
I have no idea what you mean by 4Kids Mikey's "Self Implosion of maturity". Mikey was one of my favorite parts of the 4Kids show. He was childish, but not nearly as much as Nicktoons Mikey, who frankly seems like he needs to be prescribed some Ritalin or something. 4Kids Mikey also shows signs of competence, responsibility and effectiveness (as Donnie said "he stepped it up") When he had to have a rematch in the Battle Nexus Tournament because he didn't win fair and square, he had to learn humility and ask Leo for help, and, as in the superhero episodes, he put his skills and what he learned to use and they paid off. The only time I remember such a thing with Nicktoons Mikey was that drunken-boxing "fight without thinking" business in the Falco episode back in season 1, an episode that was about
Donnie. And
it never came up again. Agreed with Donnie. Not big on the April crush thing (I was never really into the idea of Turtle/Human romance, even if Leo/Karai seemed like a pretty natural ship) but yes, Paulson owns that character. And I glad he was cast, that and Bravoman were the first time I'd
really enjoyed his work since probably Pinkey and the Brain. I felt he'd gotten a little overexposed. Now I'm enjoying his work a lot more again.
Rapheal, well, I really liked that romance with him and Mona, it was very cute and added an extra lair to the character.
Spoiler
Ditto the replacement for Spike.
That being said I have one issue with Astin's performance for the character and I've had it for the entire show's run.
He cannot. Do. ANGER. And I'm not talking typical annoyed Ralph, I'm talking the white-hot anger he's prompted to deliver when something happens to warrant it. I was saying that for about a year or so during S2, then I got to the otherwise excellent finale where a dramatic scene got hurt a tiny bit by his forced, underacted delivery. "nooo you monster" was the kind of take that the replacement voice for Ash from Pokemon got flak for for years. Even the 4Kids Ralph sounded more convincing and natural IMO.
Didn't mention Bebob and Rockteady, but yeah, I get a hoot out of them. I like to imitate some of Bebob's more memorable lines. Generally I like what Nickolodeon has done with them across the comics, movie and show. They're still comedic, but are genuinely dangerous. I think that's the take all us fans who grew up on the 87 series wanted to see back when Tokka and Rahzar made their debut. Tigerclaw I'm a big fan of. I liked that his defeats and failures were, for the most part, kept to a minimum. I feel this show has made a contentrated effort to try to avoid Villain Decay (except for Bradford and Xever, arguably), and I give them credit for that. I'm also an unapologetic fan of KRANG SUB PRIME!
Spoiler
It's funny when I first saw that S2 finale I said I wanted him to come back even though by all appearances he clearly died. And he came back, oh mercy, did he keep coming back.
Spoiler
That being said I was VERY disappointed by the writers throwing away the character of Irma? Stephanie Gooch from Scrubs as a new high-school friend of April? That totally worked for me. That twist kills, man, but I wish that character stuck around. It also seemed a bit odd that James Hong's Lo Pan-esque sorcerer character could tell there was something odd about her, but not why?
The Rook thing with the Utrons was neat, but it only served to solidify the question of whether there was ever a real Irma.
Yes, Tennent's Fugitoid was the best ever, but admittedly, the deck was stacked in his favor. In terms of the cartoons, we had C-3P0-type voice and mannerisms versus DAVID TENNENT doing a C-3P0-voice and mannerisms, on a massive amount of sugar, and also some funny sounds effects thrown in for good measure, and a LCD screen flashing emojis, and some really solid dramatic beats...and unlike a lot of the star power guest stars, he was basically a main cast member and he stole the show. Interestingly, the writers for the 4Kids show briefly talked about doing something similar with Nano. Kinda curious how that would have turned out.
Spade: If you took out the wacky humor and 87 nostalgia, the two shows would be pretty similar. I'd be lying if I said the 4Kids show didn't have its share of filler or comedic storylines (Golden Puck and Fast Forward, anyone?) I'd say they're still more similar to each other than the 4Kids is to the Fred Wolf version. The thing is, the 2003 version pretty much single handedly revitalized the Turtles and kept them around up to this point. The comics were dying a slow, fascinating death. I think the fact that every version of Turtles since has had Karai in a prominent role and Hun and Bishop keep popping up says a lot about the influence that one show had. For a lot of us (myself included) my knowledge of Karai was "oh, that character from that Tournament Fighters game on the Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis".
Well, you're in the early episodes of the Farm Arc, right? Well Winters and I are coming from the point of view of seeing the stuff that comes later. I do agree Leo seems more mature after that. Seth Green played him more focused and disciplined (actually probably one of my favorite Seth Green roles of all time) than Biggs and Contrambone's more green approach.
Yeah, I was't a fan of the SpyderBytes episode myself (other than the character being voiced by Lewis Black, of course). Seemed like a bit of a childish idiot plot. And that villain, along with Snakeweed, had NO currency. Hence why neither seems to show up again.
Well, dunno if you ever saw the original live-action movie, but that first episode of the farm arc was lifting from it scene for scene. Just about the only thing wasn't a recreation of that part of the flick was the monster. I don't remember the farm arc in the 4Kids version wearing out its welcome like this one did. Though the fact that it saved some for a later season and took the opportunity to adapt a few stories from the comics definitely helped.
I think one of the HUGE things about this show that keeps me wanting to watch more dispute my hangups on it is the extended voice cast. If they want David Tennent, they get him. If they want Lance Henrickson, Micheal Dorn, Ron Perlman, Lucy Lawless, Dwight Schultz and Keith friggin' David, they get them. If they want the original cast of the 87 cartoon, they get them. (Something I fully admit 4Kids couldn't deliver, though the stand-ins did an admirable job) Ah, so many awesome castings in that outer space arc alone.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on September 17, 2016, 09:13:45 AM
I have no idea what you mean by 4Kids Mikey's "Self Implosion of maturity". Mikey was one of my favorite parts of the 4Kids show. He was childish, but not nearly as much as Nicktoons Mikey, who frankly seems like he needs to be prescribed some Ritalin or something. 4Kids Mikey also shows signs of competence, responsibility and effectiveness (as Donnie said "he stepped it up") When he had to have a rematch in the Battle Nexus Tournament because he didn't win fair and square, he had to learn humility and ask Leo for help, and, as in the superhero episodes, he put his skills and what he learned to use and they paid off. The only time I remember such a thing with Nicktoons Mikey was that drunken-boxing "fight without thinking" business in the Falco episode back in season 1, an episode that was about Donnie. And it never came up again.
I was speaking primarily of Michelangelo during the last two seasons of the show: Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer. I thought the first two seasons of the show may have arguably been the best media portrayal of the character. He was fine in seasons 3-5, even if he did seem to have the requisite focus-episodes where he had to re-learn the same "life lessons" he had supposedly already experienced in previous seasons. The two best Mikey episodes were probably "The Unconvincing Turtle Titan" and "Grudge Match." He had some really heartwarming moments too, like when he thought the sewer cave-in killed Leatherhead or when he was dealing with the disappearance of Splinter or Leonardo's injuries sustained in Season 1.
Many fans point to his unlikely victory in the Battle Nexus tournament as the turning point that sent his character into an increasingly annoying and narcissistic direction:
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=36318
It got turned up to 11 in Fast Forward, when his primary interest seemingly became pranks and video games.
When the show brought the cast back to their present-day in the final Back to the Sewer season, Splinter's essence became digitally scrambled with no guarantee that he'd ever become flesh-and-blood again. Donatello was the only character who devoted himself to recovering Splinter, while Leonardo and Raphael hoped for the best but seemingly resigned themselves to a grim possibility. Mikey, however, couldn't seem to grasp the solemnity of potentially losing their father. He would routinely change the subject to something stupid anytime Donatello talked about his progress on the Splinter search. He also became quite conceited and insecure, and none of the other characters ever called him out... mostly just dismissed it as "Mikey being Mikey" no matter how offensive or insensitive he might get. In the FF episode "Clash of the Turtle Titans," he became so jealous that a superhero 100 years in the future called himself "Turtle Titan" that he went out of his way to pick a fight with him and even disabled his jetpack while both of them were flying over the city.
Back to the Nick show...
I liked the Farm Arc because it seemed every episode was a brand new way to creep the characters out. They weren't always great plots, but it was a fun way to challenge the team emotionally and mentally, as few of those episodes could be resolved with traditional martial arts prowess alone.
I think you are correct that Sean Astin doesn't do rage/anger well. For me, I take that as a fortuitous fact that might discourage the writers from overplaying Raph's dark side. Fred Wolf Raphael ("cool but rude") is still my favorite take on the character, and I find the character more interesting if he isn't afraid to have a softer side.
Well,everyone got flanderized in Fast Forward.It wasnt just Mikey.Raphael got reduced to being grumpy and hating the future.Joe Kelly,it was not you best moment.Even if it did have some cool villains.
I disagree about the two shows being similar.Its pretty obvious this show tries to emulate the 80's one.In goofy tone,villains,almost no internal continuity.
Even the filleresque episodes of '03 show lead somewhere,tied into the bigger plot somehow.Here Punk Frogs,Dream Beavers,Speed Demon,etc are forgotten after one episode and are not in any way related to the bigger plot.
So I finished season 3 and started a bit of season 4.Well,they butchered Return to new York.The epic story line about the turtles return and victory over Shredder is reduced to one episode of them fighting 3 clone Shredders and running away.But things do get a bit better after the return to NY.I liked the Mutanimals and Mondo Gecko,and Triceratons.I didnt like Hun and Bishop thou.Im not sure why they even bothered using the names.Bebop and Rocksteady i found just bland.Amount of butt jokes REALLY skyrocketed in this season.Im not even sure why Casey is in this show?He doesnt do anything,hes not interesting or in any way important.Turtles in time was just okay(no aardvark cameo this time thou)
I did like the Fugitoid,but this season doesn't see to offer much more then sail space and get into adventures resolvable in the span of one episode.I hope Im wrong there.Also,they really went out of their way to provide a love interest for every turtle.For some reason.
Somehow,for every thing I liked,there end up being 2 that I disliked.
I dont know why they didnt just name the series Teenage Mutant Ninja April.Elder Aeon?The heck was that?
On the other hand,Super Shredder was interesting,for about half an episode.
See, I quite liked the April episode. I think it's a good thing that April has more development and agency as a character in this iteration considering what a major character in the franchise she is and how other iterations over time (such as the 2003 series and the IDW comics) have given her larger roles beyond damsel in distress and snooping reporter.
Super Shredder was alright. I was more interested in the stuff going on with Splinter in that arc.
Spoiler
I really enjoyed the Rat King appearance in that episode. Very trippy. I found Jeffrey Combs and Hoon Lee (Splinter) were especially good in the voice roles in that episode. And that's gotta be the most overt death in the show to date.
I was pretty surprised that Shredder was hospital ridden after the fight at the end of the space arc. It didn't seem like he got hurt that badly so I was expecting something more to happen to put him in that state.
I was a little curious what happened to Scumbug and Antrax. Did they get away? Were they captured? The show doesn't really tell us. I would guess the creators wanted to keep it open ended in case they want to bring them back.
A larger role is okay,but here she somehow always ends up being more important then the turtles.And gets some new super special awesome powers every 3-4 episodes.Like a self insert character in a bad fan fanfiction.
But hey look,Channel 6 building.
Tokka is back.They riff on Gamera movies a bit.Passable.
And the final few episodes seem pretty dark according to wikipedia.
So that happens.
Spoiler
Splinter died.
But...
Spoiler
... perhaps he becomes one with the Force...
Or(spoilers for still unfinished volume 4 ahead):
Spoiler
He turns out to be a clone and the real/their Splinter is Daimyo of the Battle Nexus.
We still don't know what is up with that and we probably never will.
Had to dig this one out of the dirt but...new episode: Usagi written by Stan Saki! Love it, please and thank you. Know we have some fans of that comic here so thought I'd give a heads up.
I hadn't watched any of this show for a while, but I tuned in for this episode, and it was pretty decent. It's hard to go wrong with Usagi, so that was pretty cool. The whole setting was pretty much directly from the comics, so I enjoyed that. The anime tropes were minor and relatively subdued, and the action looked pretty good. I'll be back for the next part.
Apparently,the finale is another crossover with Fred Wolf Turtles.Nothing against them,but please give it a rest.
Actually there are apparently three more episodes after that: "The Wasteland Warrior" "The Impossible Desert" and "Carmageddon". Apparently that aforementioned Fred Wolf Turtles crossover will be released on DVD in early to mid September.
In my defense,Wikipedia hasn't been updated on that yet.
Moving on,much of my complaints about the show still stand for its 5 season,but no point in repeating all that again.Good news is that Newtralizer and Lord Dregg are back.Unfortunately,so is Mona Lisa.
Didn't like Mona Lisa, eh?
My issue with the current season is it's basically this show's version of Enterprise season 4. One last season composed of smaller arcs with no overarching story until they run out the clock. For example, while it was nice to see them do Usagi in this series, I didn't need three episodes of the Turtles wandering around in Usagi's world with a really stuck-up little kid. The Splinter episode, for example, wasn't a story that really needed to be told at all. It was fine, but it didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know, and it seems to only existed to provide more Hoon Lee as Splinter (which is nice, I'll grant that). Though it also has the distinction of being written by TMNT co-creator Kevin Eastman. I don't know if he's ever written a TMNT episode before.
I'm not sure if I or anyone else have brought this up here but season 5, Tales of the TMNT, is the finale season of the series. It's apparently going to be replacement by a new 2D series called Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-reboot-2d-1202000951/) (I assume Andy Serkis will be involved :P ) which will apparently have mystical powers in it (aka a new gimmick) and will be "more humongous, and more light hearted in tone". Personally, I thought the Nicktoons series was already too humor-based, but oh well. I'm waiting to find out if it's a continuation of the current show like Fast Forward and Back to the Sewers were for the 2003 series, and if the voice cast will return. If it is a reboot, then 1) I'm not crazy about watching them start all over again, in a cartoon they say is going to be more light-hearted, and 2) That means the 2003 series still had a longer run. I kinda like that since I still have a soft spot for that series to this day.
Wasnt that also the season that casted James Avery(in full Shredder mode) as a Klingon warlord?
Mona Lisa...every turtle needs a love interest,yes?
Thing about 2003 turtles...it had a great animation studio,good writers,long term plans,an input from Peter Laird.At least in the first 5 seasons.Unfortunatl,some threads were left unresolved;and sadly,I dont think we will ever return to that era.Considering the new owners did they best to bury that series.But I was okay with Turtles Forever.It was a decent finale for the franchise.For those who complained about the portrayal of FW turtles,I say: have you actually watched that cartoon?They WERE pizza obsesed stoners. ;)
Which brings me to another thing,2012 version didnt really contribute anything to the mythos.It borrowed from every other incarnation,and rode the 80's nostalgia a bit too much,but never really came onto its own.And that perhaps is the worst problem I have with it.Okay,there was Newtralizer,but thats kinda it.
I heard about the reboot but I dont reall care.Seema like another version that caters to toddlers and FW nostalgics.No offense to anyone.
As someone who actually recently rewatched Enterprise (don't worry, I rewatched the ones everyone likes too, there's a good chance I'll back to DS9 in the near future :P) You are correct, the late great Uncle Phil himself played a Klingon on that show.
As you and I discussed in the past, I am a hardcore TMNT 2003 fan and appreciate everything it did. It paved the way for literally every new iteration that's come since, all of which have followed in its footsteps in any number of ways.
Quoteand sadly,I dont think we will ever return to that era.Considering the new owners did they best to bury that series.
Indeed. To this day we don't have new season sets for the show (merely handfuls of episodes on DVD), and the old season sets were out of print and expensive as all get out when I bought them at the pawn shops a good 3-5 + years ago. It frankly boggles the mind that the Mirage Comics and Archie comics have gotten lavish reprints, yet the cartoon remains unavailable on new DVD sets or on any legit streaming service I'm aware of, yet you can watch darn near every American Transformers cartoon for free on Tubi Tv.
QuoteBut I was okay with Turtles Forever.It was a decent finale for the franchise.
Oh I adored Turtles Forever. The only reason I don't own it on DVD is because I stubbornly refused to buy a release that didn't feature the "Director's Cut" that had the extra scenes filling in the plot holes, like how Karai was able to find Ch'rell/Utron Shredder, and whether she was 100% loyal to him, or conflicted as in previous seasons. Those were, to my recollection, the only significant negatives I had with the film (well, other than, of course, 4Kids' failure to get the original voice actors, something I'll concede Nicktoons absolutely beat them at) and those extra scenes addressed them. I am disappointed that after Turtles Forever kicked off this crossover idea, and Nicktoons Turtles repeatedly did their own, we never got a crossover with the 4Kids show. It probably would have worked better anyway, since the contrast was supposed to be "serious" (notice the quotes, 2K3 was not without humor or personality) vs wacky, while Nicktoons version was...well wacky vs. also wacky, but one of them is traditional animation! The mean draw was the return of the original voice actors. And let's not started on how they took a sledgehammer to the canon by claiming that Fred Wolf Krang was a "rogue" Kraang from the Nicktoons Dimension X...I don't even want to try to figure how that's supposed to work.
QuoteFor those who complained about the portrayal of FW turtles,I say: have you actually watched that cartoon?They WERE pizza obsesed stoners.
Yeah, as someone who was a kid during that incarnation, and a
huge TMNT fan (until the "Red Skies" where I actually started to lose interest and largely dropped off) Turtles Forever was pretty accurate. Even the infamous scene with the banana people capturing April really wasn't all that different than "Attack of the Killer Pizzas" or the Mr. Mxysptlk stand-in who talked like Pee-Wee Herman (funny how that connects to Bat-Mite in Brave and the Bold). At the worst, they were
slightly wackier just for the purpose of contrast.
QuoteWhich brings me to another thing,2012 version didnt really contribute anything to the mythos.It borrowed from every other incarnation,and rode the 80's nostalgia a bit too much,but never really came onto its own.And that perhaps is the worst problem I have with it.Okay,there was Newtralizer,but thats kinda it.
You know, that is a good point. A snarkier Splinter who can hold his own in a fight? I've seen that before. An April who trained with Splinter and can fend for herself? I've seen that. Karai as Splinter's estranged daughter was a new take, but in the end it amounted to a conflicted Karai who eventually became an out and out ally to the Turtles. The differences tended to be stuff like revised origins for familiar characters, the style of humor and various running gags or characterization quirks. While future incarnations were able to take a lot from 2K3 (Hun, Bishop, bringing back any number of things from the Mirage Comics that the 2K3 revived, Darius Dunn, Angel and The Street Phantoms in the IDW run) I'm not sure how much future iterations will be able to pull from Nicktoons. On the topic of Newtralizer, he was actually based on an unused concept from the 90s. Just as the original TMNT was spoofing on Daredevil, mutant comic book characters and ninjas in general, Newtralizer was supposed to be based on characters like Cable. On the other hand, The IDW volume played a more serious version of the same game, drawing from 2K3, the 87 series and the Archie run while coming with many new ideas (Angel as a superhero, Harold, Old Hob, Alopex, who actually made it into Nicktoons).
I don't hate the new series though. As I said, I have a love-hate relationship with it. I'd say I've really enjoyed about 40-70% of it, maybe more. The humor-oriented episodes with Mikey and the filler stories were what I disliked. I appreciated the wider range of voice talent, that was probably the big improvement over 2K3 If Nicktoons wanted Jeffrey Combs, David Tennent, Danny Trejo, Lance Henrickson, or Ron Perlman, they got them. It reminded me a lot of Transformers Prime in that regard, coming off TF Animated (Prime also had Jeffrey Combs in its cast). The current TF cartoon, which is about to end, had, in my opinion, a much less impressive range of voice talent, and a more kid-oriented approach to storytelling. I'm hoping The next TMNT doesn't go the same route, though it likely will.
I kinda liked the Red Skies episodes,it was an okay imitation of Batman TAS. :)
But I see why it could have alienated its audience back then.
I never really had any hope for a 4kids/Nick turtles crossover.I mean it was possible(and apparently,an episode with Flaming Carrot almost happened),but it was pretty clear the writers only cared about one version of turtles.
Btw,best part of Turtles Forever was Mirage/Leo's Miller-esque monologue.Its just gold. :thumbup:
Its not that I hated this series(I said before it had good stuff,like Rat King for example),its just that it makes me almost angry when I see that it had so much potential and ends up wasting it.Another example,Slash goes from Raphaels evil counterpart to a member of the B-team with a beef against Leo for some reason.Or that sometimes I get the feeling they were more concerned with shipping the telling stories.
Or to make a comparison with IDW comic- it also takes pieces of previous iterations and forms a sort of Ultimate universe,but it also adds a lot of its own and ends up being a lot more then the sum of its part.This show however,well you can see the stitches...But,I said all of this before.
I agree about the Usagi story.Three episodes feels a bit dragged out.Splinter episode was okay,but nothing we haven't seen before.Fun fact,the water tower was Turtles provisional HQ during the original City of War.
Raph stars in a Road Warrior homage that doubles as a tribute to Peter and Kevin.I didnt quite catch the tribute part (there are a few mythology references like Caseys flag-mask),its a decent Road Warrior riff.
And Savanti Romero is going around gathering classic movie monsters.Which is just okay.Bit early for Halloween,thou.