Hi, all!
I realize that, after all these years, the community has certainly thinned out, but the people who are still here certainly seem to be engaged -- I was really impressed last week, when I asked two questions and got rapid and detailed response.
Soooo...since I make no apologies about being a nearly lifelong fan of comics and have spent more time that is healthy playing this game in Skirmish Watch Mode, I thought it would be fun, for those who like to participate, to list...well, you can read the thread title.
Here's how I'll start: Just a simple list of a few things that you find to be Fun Facts about your Hero Files. Whether it's character behavior or surprising toughness due to a mix of attributes or anything else you can think of, it's all meant to be in good fun and hopefully take those who do participate back to the core fun of this game: Watching Superman hit an armored Lex Luthor so hard, it sends him flying 200 feet. :D
It's not meant to be a critique of anyone's work -- I've always felt Hero Files are whatever you want them to be, for how you read comics and play/watch the game. I've never felt anyone's was "more right" than anybody else's. So, with that in mind...here we go!
5. Captain Atom is an absolute monster in Skirmish Watch Mode...except for the little matter of him having absolutely no defense against telepathy/mental powers. It's not easy, because you're just as likely to get barbecued first, but characters like Despero and Circe, or someone like a Psycho-Pirate, can be surprisingly effective. The first time I had the Justice League International roster take on Despero, damn if Despero didn't hypnotize him off the hop and have the good Captain nearly wipe out his entire crew. Despero took care of the rest.
4. It took me years to get a Wonder Woman hero file that I liked, but I finally gave in and made her ability to block ranged_projectiles 100 percent with the use of the defender attribute. Once I did that, it actually kinda fell into place. I gave her hex/pull for her lasso, and she flat-out administers beatdowns to characters she brings in for the kill.
3. I can't bring myself to make a "Dick Grayson as Batman" hero file. I simply can't do it. He's still Nightwing in my game, with the Revenant skin/BlkCasanova's skope.
2. I use radiation attacks as my catch-all -- very few characters in my game have much resistance to it, if any at all. I use it to simulate kryptonite and magic-based ranged attacks, so I can have a better feel for what the damage might be. With that being said, my Captain Marvel consistently beats Superman -- I would guess seven out of 10 times. But since I'm a Captain Marvel fan, I'm ok with that.
1. It was funny. My Batman had been annihilating all non-meta characters for years, and some metas, too. But that all changed when I finally got a Deathstroke hero file that was close, and then I created a Bane...who proceeded to whip Bruce Wayne's arse four times in a row before Bruce beat him.
Soooo...what fun stuff have you noticed from your heroes?
5. I've done a lot of tweaking to FFX, as such, my high STR characters have strengths mostly between 15 and 20. (Hulk fluctuates between 18 and 21; and Superboy Prime is 25). The game feels much more comic-booky having a wider range of scores.
4. I have 6.5x as many DC character Hero Files as I do Marvel files (that's 13 DC for every 2 Marvel) much like my comic collection.
3. I had two Dick Grayson as Batman Hero Files based on late-Golden Age stories, but, I make no attempt to have my Hero Files reflect anything more recent than 2003.
2. I use "Energy" attacks the way ElijahSnowFan uses Radiation. It is my catch-all for things like magic, red sun rays, and kryptonite. And I give Cosmic Chump to Kryptonians, etc. to represent their vulnerability. Most characters don't have the vulnerability, but someone who has resistance to crushing damage will still be hurt more by Mjolnir.
1. I get WAAAY too much enjoyment watching Captain Marvel fight groups of Phantom Zone villains when a bunch get close and he calls down magic lightning on them.
Quote from: Kenn on December 28, 2010, 02:27:05 AM
5. I've done a lot of tweaking to FFX, as such, my high STR characters have strengths mostly between 15 and 20. (Hulk fluctuates between 18 and 21; and Superboy Prime is 25). The game feels much more comic-booky having a wider range of scores.
4. I have 6.5x as many DC character Hero Files as I do Marvel files (that's 13 DC for every 2 Marvel) much like my comic collection.
3. I had two Dick Grayson as Batman Hero Files based on late-Golden Age stories, but, I make no attempt to have my Hero Files reflect anything more recent than 2003.
2. I use "Energy" attacks the way ElijahSnowFan uses Radiation. It is my catch-all for things like magic, red sun rays, and kryptonite. And I give Cosmic Chump to Kryptonians, etc. to represent their vulnerability. Most characters don't have the vulnerability, but someone who has resistance to crushing damage will still be hurt more by Mjolnir.
1. I get WAAAY too much enjoyment watching Captain Marvel fight groups of Phantom Zone villains when a bunch get close and he calls down magic lightning on them.
5. Wow! I had no idea you could do that?!?!
4. Me, too! I hardly ever play Marvel characters in the game...just personal preference. When I do use Marvel characters, for some odd reason, I totally enjoy letting Havok and Cyclops take on hordes of characters. You know, since they're brothers and all.
3. I don't blame you...mine don't reflect much of anything that's happened over the last four years. For instance, Roy Harper's got both arms and is just fine in my game, and Billy Batson is most-definitely-and-without-any-doubt-whatsoever Captain Marvel.
2. Huh...Cosmic Chump. Interesting...interesting, indeed. Perhaps some tweaking of my own files is in order...
1. Since Cap's my favorite character ever, I find that totally awesome!
Interesting thread!
Here's a quick n dirty countdown of weird things I do with my hero files.
5. I use energy for magical blasts and sonics, and any other odd energy attack... Gonna have to start using cosmic blast too.
4. I have started building hero files to occupy "roles" more in order to balance out groups, I even tried customizing the ai files with the roles in mind - scrapper, ranged, tank, support, etc. Like in an x-men team, wolvie is scrapper, cyclops ranged, colossus tank and storm is support.
3. I try not to have duplicate powers for a single hero, for example I'll have a melee that stuns but does medium damage, and a high damage single punch that causes knockback. I try not to put stun and knockback on a single power.
2. I think my prestige points are pretty low compared to other gamers, an average hero is around 10k while Superman might be 25k tops.
1. I remake hero files almost every time I start playing the game again... So I've probably remade the same hero files over 20 times since I started playing freedom force.
Quote from: detourne_me on December 28, 2010, 04:05:49 AM
Interesting thread!
Here's a quick n dirty countdown of weird things I do with my hero files.
5. I use energy for magical blasts and sonics, and any other odd energy attack... Gonna have to start using cosmic blast too.
4. I have started building hero files to occupy "roles" more in order to balance out groups, I even tried customizing the ai files with the roles in mind - scrapper, ranged, tank, support, etc. Like in an x-men team, wolvie is scrapper, cyclops ranged, colossus tank and storm is support.
3. I try not to have duplicate powers for a single hero, for example I'll have a melee that stuns but does medium damage, and a high damage single punch that causes knockback. I try not to put stun and knockback on a single power.
2. I think my prestige points are pretty low compared to other gamers, an average hero is around 10k while Superman might be 25k tops.
1. I remake hero files almost every time I start playing the game again... So I've probably remade the same hero files over 20 times since I started playing freedom force.
4. I totally have tried that, as well -- I absolutely use the subtypes list to try to differentiate characters, as far as targeting/classes and varying use of powers. That does work best for the X-Men, doesn't it? I find that the All-New, All-Different lineup is EXTREMELY tough to beat, as a team...
3. You know, that's really interesting...I never thought about that! Going to tweak some lineups...
2. OK. I'm a little embarrassed here. Guilty as charged. I'm the absolute king of ridiculous prestige points...when I trot Zatanna out, she cracks...500,000 prestige points. (Hey! Restoration is EXPENSIVE!) ;)
1. I give you credit for that one! I've got three sets of hero files that I've backed up...I couldn't remake them all again, because I custom script every AI, in some fashion. When my HD crashed about a year ago, I nearly retired...the amount of work I put in was almost too intimidating to rebuild...almost/ ^_^
Just a couple of bits of hero-making philosophy... :ff: mostly, btw.
1. I havent used FFX in years. Its cool and all, but Im really, really awful at ez script stuff, I mean, even basic stuff, so I was often frustrated when trying to use it. So as it goes, I still just use the game as regular style. I dont have much of a problem with it, but I may start using FFX again soon.
2. This in mind, when I do guys like Superman, I jsut give him a material of Stone, and a passive defense at 5 to deflect bullets. Being bullet-proof is his thing. I never made him specifically vulnerable to magic, since the idea behind the magic vulnerability is that he has no more invulnerability to magic than anyone else. I do give him the Heroic attribute, since being able to fight back against overwhelming odds to save the day is also his thing.
3. I use the regular energy type for most energy attacks. Magic blasts, cosmic power blasts...in fact that what I use for Cyclops' optic beams. Yeah, I know theyre actually kinetic force that he uses, but I realized that when I pitted him against Sentinels, he was almost useless. Metal guys, and other guys who are strong against crushing attacks are almost impervious to his beams, when in the comics and cartoons this is almost never the case. Consequently, I give his beams the energy type and give them a nasty knockback. It works pretty well in the games. Guys who can absorb energy can suck the beams up when he shoots them, and it seems like thats fairly accurate. I also dont give him a overwhelmingly powerful optic blast, I just let him over power it. It never seemed right to give guys like that another power when it is essentially no different than a previous one, just more powerful.
Now, I also give him another power called Trick Shot, where he uses a projectile attack thats chained with a high amount of stun. It allows him to take out a large amount of mooks, since outside of the passive defense called Danger Room Training, he really is pretty much a glass cannon.
4. Passive Defenses. The way I use them is essentially for special cases, or to reflect guys who are well trained. Hulk and Radioactive Man have high absorbing passive defenses against radiation, as essentially trying to use it against them is useless. Stuff like that.
But for Batman, and guys like him, he gets a passive defense that has a 25% chance to block any kind of attack from melee, ranged or area sources. This is to reflect his knowledge of getting the hell out of the way of whats going to kill him, so it really doesnt matter if the attack is heat or cold based or what. It doesnt stop direct attacks, since there isnt really any way to get out of the way of those, like a telepathic attack or a magic spell or whatever. In fact, most of my non-powered vigilante style heroes get this, and even with Batman at the top of the heap, as it were, they all pretty much get it at a 25% chance to block. However, since he is Batman, he does get a 5 in endurance, as he is tough as hell. Cap does too, but most other guys like that get it at a 3 or 4.
5. Stats.
I have decided, for me, that the highest a non powered human can have is a...
3 in strength, as Batman cant really uproot street lights
5 in speed
6 in agility at someone like Batman, again, can be agile as hell and still have a little more room to wiggle because of his training
Energy and endurance are different. Cap and Bats are tough, but not ridiculously so. But Batman has a 6 in energy while Cap has a 5. This is to reflect the fact that while Cap mostly uses his shield, Batman is constantly using gadgets and crap like that, so it would make sense for him to have a little more energy.
When I made my Robin (Grayson) file, I gave him a 6 in agility, but I also gave him a 4 in endurance, but also the Nimble attribute, as well as the standard training passive defense. He's agile as all hell, but he really isnt as physically tough as Batman.
When it comes to guys like Bane or Killer Croc, guys who have strength that superhuman, but tossing cars around superhuman, I give them a 3 strength, but set all their melee attacks at a high setting, as opposed to the medium which is pretty much the setting that everyone elses melee attacks are at. They wont throw a car at you, but they are stronger than a usual human being can be. But while Croc has his standard melee attack at a minor cost, Bane has his basic melee attack at a trace cost. This is to reflect guys like Bane who are powerful, but also smart fighters. I always liked Bane better when he was essentially an evil Doc Savage, instead of a thug who's only recourse was the Venom serum. Killer Croc on the other hand, outside of a few appearances early on, has always been a stupid thug who hits hard, but not smart.
6. Melee attacks.
All my characters have basic melee attacks, except for guys like MODOK or Prof. X, and all the melee attacks cost something, even if a basic punch, but those are mostly at a trace cost. I do this to reflect the idea that the characters are gonna get "tired" when they attack or whatever.
For martial artist types, I give them a little more variety. Batman's basic punch has a high stun, another attack a highish knockback, and I also give most of those types a multi-hit melee attack with a 180 degree arc to reflect that they can often take on a group of thugs if they had to, or go all out against a powerful single opponent. It does lead to interesting things like Robin being able to punch down an apartment building when he gets into a fight with some thugs in an alley.
When I do guys like Superman, I give him a low knockback and stun. Thats not gonna stun him with any success, most of the time, but since he has a 10 strength, they will almost certainly be knocked back pretty well.
Wow. Thats alot of stuff, there. Sorry about the amount, but I do have alot of ideas about how I make hero files in this game, seeing as how Ive been playing it off and on since the games was released almost ten years ago.
Quote from: detourne_me on December 28, 2010, 04:05:49 AM
Interesting thread!
Here's a quick n dirty countdown of weird things I do with my hero files.
5. I use energy for magical blasts and sonics, and any other odd energy attack... Gonna have to start using cosmic blast too.
4. I have started building hero files to occupy "roles" more in order to balance out groups, I even tried customizing the ai files with the roles in mind - scrapper, ranged, tank, support, etc. Like in an x-men team, wolvie is scrapper, cyclops ranged, colossus tank and storm is support.
3. I try not to have duplicate powers for a single hero, for example I'll have a melee that stuns but does medium damage, and a high damage single punch that causes knockback. I try not to put stun and knockback on a single power.
2. I think my prestige points are pretty low compared to other gamers, an average hero is around 10k while Superman might be 25k tops.
1. I remake hero files almost every time I start playing the game again... So I've probably remade the same hero files over 20 times since I started playing freedom force.
That's funny. I do pretty much the same things as you do, especially number 1 :P
I use radiation for any character with a plasma power. Havok, Iron Man (plasma cannon), etc. I'm considering using this for cosmic energy, too.
For light-based characters, I've started using blind beams or cones and have it be a carrier with mental damage. If I can blind you with light, that means I hurt you. I also use blind as an area attack with stun and another carrier attack with vertigo.
Magnetism is always an energy power with good knockback, because it affects metal.
I use acid burn for poison and irradiate for sickness. (Poison Ivy would use Acid Burn, Pestilence will use irradiate).
I think some characters use their Active Defense powers too much, so I usually limit it in the m25ai file by adding a (situation='lowerhealthpct 50') to the ActiveDefense tactic.
I give water-based characters Weather Control but limit that in the m25ai to only using rain (not the lightning or hail). I also consider making water characters frozen (and then adjusting the resistances with attributes) so they can gets the benefit of being energized by water in the game.
All of my Green Lantern (all Lanterns, really) constructs that are summoned are made of energy and are mindless and have no hero points and could fly.
Most of my skilled martial artists have the blitzkrieg attribute, to make their melee better than the average brawler.
Thanks to JJr, I've used Genetic Damage as an "Outwit" power for intelligent characters.
Characters with excellent control of their power (Human Torch's fireball, Magneto's piercing metal, Professor X's mind blast) get the homing option. Characters with magic get that option, too, on certain powers.
Avalanche and other earth-control characters gets an exile power that is limited to ground characters only, to simulate the ground falling under the enemy.
There's a lot of good stuff in here, a lot that I've already adopted. I will add some of the observations that I have as well.
I love having the argument between having a gameplay balance and comic-book accuracy, which I will err on the side of the comics. I just can't justify having C6's Lex Luthor(modern) be able to be a threat to remotely harming Superman. Unless of course he has a Kryptonite ring or in his Battlesuit, which brings me to the first point:
5. There was a time where Lex Luthor(in his battlesuit) could fight Superman to a virtual stand-still. The big reason for this was one of his main powers was a "neural disruptor" power I gave him with the effect of energy drain. He'd use it enough to drain Supes energy. With his energy drained, he'd stun himself when he attacked. If he couldn't attack he couldn't win.
4. I have literally watched Superman vs Doomsday and Thor vs Hulk fight for days. Though if I controlled either one, it could end, but it's a blast to watch in Watch Mode.
-As an addendum, I use Superman as a standard-bearer of sorts to test how tough my herofiles are. Additionally, most of my mythic/godly characters do not have an invulnerablity attribute, but I try to make them in a way that they sufficiently powered, sort of simulating their durability, so characters like Wonder Woman, Hercules and Thor can go toe-to-toe with their counterparts.
3. The Hulk as easily one of the most powerful offensive characters in my game. He can beat mostly anyone. Those he cannot defeat, they certainly cannot defeat him. With exception to Galactus, who can beat about anyone in a matter of seconds.
2. In Watch Mode, my Magneto can beat about any contingent of X-Men I match him up against. For whatever reason his A.I. uses his Active Defense in rapid succession.
1. Kind of proud of myself for taking characters(Batman) who would seemingly be weak against high-leveled superpowered charcters(Superman) and be able to sufficiently stand up against them. It generally doesn't last too long, but if I'm controlling him, he can typically put up a good fight. Using a combination of "meta-bands"(see Justice League: Secret Orgins), batarangs and a passive "martial arts" defense he becomes much more useful.
Quote2. In Watch Mode, my Magneto can beat about any contingent of X-Men I match him up against. For whatever reason his A.I. uses his Active Defense in rapid succession.
I also had this problem. I believe the AI sets using the Active Defense to high priority. I've had matches where a character would hardly attack, and just stand there and continually fire up his Active Defense. The quick fix I came up with was to increase the energy cost of the AD power. I set most of my Active Defense powers to Medium cost. This way if they start off by firing up the AD, they only have enough energy to use a low energy attack and usually do so. If your Magneto has a healthy Energy stat, mine has a 7, he'll regenerate his energy points quickly enabling him to use the AD again or fire off some more attacks. It just seems that with this approach, I've had some success with characters mixing in their AD with attacks in a more reasonable fashion.
Also, if you're using the m25 AI, I believe you can set the AI to prioritize when a power is used or set the power to be used under certain conditions (health under 50%, for example). I haven't done too much AI manipulation other than setting subtypes, but I think there are some things you can do about when powers activate.
Problem? I actually prefer it! :D
I mean it's Magneto afterall. I'd understand if it was Toad or "Helfire Club Goon #98". How many times has Magneto been able to go head to head against the X-Men and win? It clearly makes him a more powerful character and able to go up against heavies like Colossus, Apocalypse and others. Without it, he's a sitting duck for the most part that can be taken out with a few good shots. I'm trying to figure out how to get it to work for Doctor Doom to say the least.
Quote from: laughing paradox on December 29, 2010, 05:21:30 AM
I use acid burn for poison and irradiate for sickness. (Poison Ivy would use Acid Burn, Pestilence will use irradiate).
I use acid for poison too (although, I would imagine irradiated works more like poison does)...I'm kind of surprised nobody has added a poison attack to FFX or one of the other mods.
Dana
Quote from: laughing paradox on December 29, 2010, 05:21:30 AM
Avalanche and other earth-control characters gets an exile power that is limited to ground characters only, to simulate the ground falling under the enemy.
WORDS CANNOT EXPRESS HOW MUCH I LOVE THIS. :thumbup:
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on January 02, 2011, 07:57:38 AM
4. I have literally watched Superman vs Doomsday and Thor vs Hulk fight for days. Though if I controlled either one, it could end, but it's a blast to watch in Watch Mode.
3. The Hulk as easily one of the most powerful offensive characters in my game. He can beat mostly anyone. Those he cannot defeat, they certainly cannot defeat him. With exception to Galactus, who can beat about anyone in a matter of seconds.
2. In Watch Mode, my Magneto can beat about any contingent of X-Men I match him up against. For whatever reason his A.I. uses his Active Defense in rapid succession.
4/3. I actually don't have Hulk installed in my game right now, because I absolutely agree with your statements -- it's not that I don't like the Hulk. But the bottom line is the madder the Hulk gets, the stronger the Hulk gets. And as we all know, Hulk smashes puny humans!
2. For a long time, I couldn't quite get the right feel for Magneto's magnetic powers -- yes, you can certainly do stasis attacks, but I always wanted a little more. But once I read a thread where it explained how you can have him pop people in the air and then they are suspended in midair....well, then Magneto was in business, in my world. :thumbup:
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on January 05, 2011, 07:10:37 AM
Quote from: laughing paradox on December 29, 2010, 05:21:30 AM
I use acid burn for poison and irradiate for sickness. (Poison Ivy would use Acid Burn, Pestilence will use irradiate).
I use acid for poison too (although, I would imagine irradiated works more like poison does)...I'm kind of surprised nobody has added a poison attack to FFX or one of the other mods.
Dana
I would welcome this, mainly because I've had the worst time making irradiate effective due to my penchant for really powerful hero files for the likes of Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. It's difficult for irradiate to do them any harm...I've wondered if it's possible to maybe adjust the damage value of the trait, as I've seen it hinted that it might be possible, but I haven't asked anyone how to do that over the years. Yet. :D
So, I popped back into this thread because I finally made a Doomsday hero file, after all these years. I've never really been a fan of the character because I tend to dislike one-note characters like him, where the only reason the character exists is to be powerful enough to kill heroes for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
But after all this time and seeing some different takes on the character, including the beatdown the character took in Infinite Crisis where the Golden Age Superman and Modern Age Superman took him down, I got to wondering: What other sets of "family" characters could take him down? Would he be the absolute killing machine he was when first introduced in Death of Superman? Or something a little less?
Well, the initial results were so fun, I thought I'd post them here. I was/am having a blast with it.
The Black Marvel Family...couldn't take him. Black Adam, Isis and Osiris (I use a Black Adam skin on a teen mesh; sometimes you just gotta fake it and use your imagination) simply don't have enough power variance to take him down. I think we all realize that simply beating on Doomsday, all day, can get you some place...but not always where you'd like to go. Like traction. Or unconscious. Once, he hit Osiris so hard, I almost cried for the little guy. ;)
The Marvel Family...fared slightly better, but still couldn't take him. I have Cap with a little more freedom to use "magical lightning" attacks that hurt Doomsday a bit more, and Freddy's a bit more powerful than Osiris, and Mary Marvel has more experience (which in my hero files is reflected in things like attack speed in the AI files) than Isis, so they stayed in the fight a bit longer. But at the end of the day, Doomsday took them down with a decent chunk of points to spare.
Where it got interesting was when I put Captain Atom against him. The good Captain hung in there quite a bit, mainly because I have him able to augment his regular powers "by accessing the quantum field," which in my game means he gets a Defense Mechanism boost from damage. But still, he wasn't quite able to put Doomsday down for the count...by himself, that is.
But as we all know, the good Captain isn't the only character who can access the quantum field, now is he?
Yes, I went there: I teamed up Captain Atom and Major Force, Superman/Batman: Public Enemies style, to take on Doomsday. And you know what? That was/is an absolute blast. Major Force's ability to use solid dark matter was able to hold Doomsday just long enough for Captain Atom to put him down without getting stunned and beaten to death. It was really fun to watch -- it was a devastating battle, and I swear, Doomsday was locked and loaded on Captain Atom to knock HIM out when in midswing, Major Force "staticked" him.
Captain Atom, shall we say, did not miss. :D
(Yes, I'm a geek. But what can I say? I own it, with pride.) :thumbup:
Wow. Doomsday absolutely annihilated Superman, straight up...and my Superman is TOUGH. I'm reading the DC Database entry on Doomsday just to make sure I haven't overpowered him, but that seems to be about right...Big Blue can't take that thing, one-on-one. As a matter of fact, I think Geoff Johns might've jobbed Doomsday out in Infinite Crisis, at least to some degree.
Edit: OK. I'll quit bugging you guys after this last one. After some modifications to Doomsday, I think I've found a decent spot for him. I didn't necessarily need Superman to be able to beat him one-on-one -- from my readings, he can't. I just wanted to have him last for a bit longer, and now he's done that.
But after all my ramblings, I forgot one of the biggest points: The main reason I wanted to use him is because the mesh/skin always was freaking awesome -- so if Gren and Courtnall6 ever peek in here, thanks for doing that one, back in the day!
Quote from: ElijahSnowFan on January 18, 2011, 12:30:27 AM
Wow. Doomsday absolutely annihilated Superman, straight up...and my Superman is TOUGH. I'm reading the DC Database entry on Doomsday just to make sure I haven't overpowered him, but that seems to be about right...Big Blue can't take that thing, one-on-one. As a matter of fact, I think Geoff Johns might've jobbed Doomsday out in Infinite Crisis, at least to some degree.
Edit: OK. I'll quit bugging you guys after this last one. After some modifications to Doomsday, I think I've found a decent spot for him. I didn't necessarily need Superman to be able to beat him one-on-one -- from my readings, he can't. I just wanted to have him last for a bit longer, and now he's done that.
But after all my ramblings, I forgot one of the biggest points: The main reason I wanted to use him is because the mesh/skin always was freaking awesome -- so if Gren and Courtnall6 ever peek in here, thanks for doing that one, back in the day!
How do you set up your Superman?
I wanted to have a Doomsday that is sufficiently powered enough to be able to take on and Guy Gardner, Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Fire, Ice, Maxima and Bloodwynd and beat them with ease. But I wanted a Superman who could take on that Doomsday and be able to go toe-to-toe. Like I said, Superman is my standard bearer so it took some tweaking of Doomsday. (Right now) I have Doomsday with Dispersed Structure, Invulnerable, Fearless, Regenerative and Iron Jaw. What makes Superman able to compete with him is that he's a flier with more offensive attacks and the same level of invulnerability. Superman's attacks are strong, but Doomsday's are generally stronger, but he can take the blows. I also gave Superman a "Super Strength"(300 Percent) power and when used with his "Super Punch" attack at the highest level is probably the strongest attack in my game(150-200+ hp). It only works when I'm controlling him because the AI doesn't use them both at the same time. With that he could beat Doomsday. Without it, his blows may get through Doomsday's invulnerability, but his regen will keep him going. So, like I said earlier, the two can go at each other all night.
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on January 22, 2011, 05:27:51 PM
I wanted to have a Doomsday that is sufficiently powered enough to be able to take on and Guy Gardner, Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Fire, Ice, Maxima and Bloodwynd and beat them with ease. But I wanted a Superman who could take on that Doomsday and be able to go toe-to-toe. Like I said, Superman is my standard bearer so it took some tweaking of Doomsday. (Right now) I have Doomsday with Dispersed Structure, Invulnerable, Fearless, Regenerative and Iron Jaw. What makes Superman able to compete with him is that he's a flier with more offensive attacks and the same level of invulnerability. Superman's attacks are strong, but Doomsday's are generally stronger, but he can take the blows. I also gave Superman a "Super Strength"(300 Percent) power and when used with his "Super Punch" attack at the highest level is probably the strongest attack in my game(150-200+ hp). It only works when I'm controlling him because the AI doesn't use them both at the same time. With that he could beat Doomsday. Without it, his blows may get through Doomsday's invulnerability, but his regen will keep him going. So, like I said earlier, the two can go at each other all night.
Do you base your files off others? Or do you make them all from scratch?
Completely from scratch. Everyone plays their game different ways for different reasons so it's hard to copy another person's idea of fun. Brian Urlacker's idea of fun is hitting Aaron Rodgers who I think disagrees with that idea of fun, so he doesn't play linebacker.
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on January 22, 2011, 08:10:29 PM
Completely from scratch. Everyone plays their game different ways for different reasons so it's hard to copy another person's idea of fun. Brian Urlacker's idea of fun is hitting Aaron Rodgers who I think disagrees with that idea of fun, so he doesn't play linebacker.
Good point. The hardest thing I have with setting up my files is the strength and agility levels. For strength do you put Superman at 10 or only the higher ups like Galactus and such? Do you give Flash 10 for agility?
Thanks
I usually give Superman 8 strength and Galactic beings of immense power (Galactus) 9 or 10. Giving your heroes Heavy Lifter can easily simulate a strength of 10 for your heroes. As for agility, I usually give my speedsters 8 or higher, Flash being a 10. There are characters like Spiderman and Batman that have high agility, but they usually have a raw score of 8 or 7 (attributes not applied to this).
Does heavy lifter affect melee damage?
Here's a breakdown of how I use strength levels in my game that I've cobbled together from a few sources (DC/Marvel Wiki and Classic Marvel):
1. Unable to lift.
2. Less than Body Weight
3. Body weight - 400lbs
4. 400lbs - 1 ton
5. 1-10 tons
6. 10-25 tons
7. 25-50 tons
8. 50-75 tons
9. 75-100 tons
10. Immeasurable
From that scale, Superman and Galactus would both likely be a 10 in strength. But it doesn't hardly mean Superman could hold a candle to Galactus. Galactus other powers(I don't even think I gave him a melee) are sufficiently overpowered to be able to beat Superman. Speed and agility are harder to scale in that way. For your typical human I try not to go by five in speed. If you're better than human I will go higher. In regards of agility, for most, I don't go higher than 5. For those who rely or agility I may go as high as 6 or even 7 in some cases(Batman). 8-10 is typically reserved for those whose powers make them super agile/reflexive(Spiderman, Daredevil, Speedsters).
Given, as I said before, that I use FFX to exceed strengths of 10, I often will start with the values from the old DC Heroes game (from Mayfair), using sites like http://www.writeups.org/ to get Marvel or more recent stats, and then multiply by 0.8 (Superman is a 20, Batman a 4 - DCH were 25 and 5). It's more of a guide than a rule, but I find it a good place to start.
Thanks guys!
I'm in the process of creating a scale for my characters. This is what I have, what do you think?
Strength:
1) Aunt May
2) Jubilee, billy batson
3)cyclops, blue beetle
4)batman,wolverine
5)spiderman,booster gold
6)luke cage, cyborg
7)thing, aquaman
8)colossus, namor, martian manhunter
9)wonder woman, thor, black adam
10)superman, hulk, doomsday, galactus
It's pretty good to think of it that way, I think. Though I don't have some of the same values you have. I have Wonder Woman, Thor and Black Adam among the strongest. Also, I don't have Batman as high(I think you can rip light poles from the ground with 4 strength).
Batman should definitely be weaker than Wolverine. Batman has athlete-level or maybe even peak human strength...While Wolverine has enhanced-human (Wolvie should even be stronger than Captain America, who has peak human strength).
Dana
How does this look?
Strength:
1)Aunt May
2)Jubilee, Billy Batson
3)Cyclops, Blue Beetle, Batman
4)Wolverine, Mr. Fantastic, Firestorm
5)Spider-Man, Hawkman, Booster Gold, Red Tornado
6)Luke Cage, Cyborg, Ghost Rider, Rogue
7)Thing, Aquaman, Luthor Battlesuit, Ms. Marvel, Iron Man
8)Colossus, Namor, Martian Manhunter, Lobo
9)Wonder Woman, Thor, Captain Marvel, Black Adam
10)Superman, Hulk, Galactus, Doomsday
I'm having trouble differentiating between the 100+ class strength class people as far as levels through 8-10.
That's the thing. I haven't seen much that would tell me that Wonder Woman, Thor, Marvel and Adam are any weaker than those you have on the top tier.
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on January 23, 2011, 11:58:36 PM
That's the thing. I haven't seen much that would tell me that Wonder Woman, Thor, Marvel and Adam are any weaker than those you have on the top tier.
That's where it gets a little muddled. While most people would say that Superman is stronger than those characters, how much stronger he is, is the real question.
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on January 23, 2011, 11:58:36 PM
That's the thing. I haven't seen much that would tell me that Wonder Woman, Thor, Marvel and Adam are any weaker than those you have on the top tier.
I've seen plenty to show that WW is weaker than anyone in that list you just gave, much less the top tier there. However, I've always preferred the non Superman level Wonder Woman of the Silver and Bronze Age. In the last twenty years or so they've constantly played her up as only a little weaker than Supes.
This is a really awesome thread guys! I've been wracking my brains for a week trying to think of something that I would classify as a "fun fact" about my herofiles. I'll try and take a stab at it soon. :)
Quote from: BentonGrey on January 25, 2011, 03:34:33 AM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on January 23, 2011, 11:58:36 PM
That's the thing. I haven't seen much that would tell me that Wonder Woman, Thor, Marvel and Adam are any weaker than those you have on the top tier.
I've seen plenty to show that WW is weaker than anyone in that list you just gave, much less the top tier there. However, I've always preferred the none Superman level Wonder Woman of the Silver and Bronze Age. In the last twenty years or so they've constantly played her up as only a little weaker than Supes.
This is a really awesome thread guys! I've been wracking my brains for a week trying to think of something that I would classify as a "fun fact" about my herofiles. I'll try and take a stab at it soon. :)
Yeah of course, that is true. She has been portrayed inconsistently in the past. However, I tend to think of Wonder Woman as being a Superman for girls. Not exactly a clone, but a powerhouse, dominant figure. Of course her invulnerability/durability has been as inconsistant as her strength, I've tried to simulate it in a way to make her able to compete with powerhouses like Superman, Marvel, Darkseid and others.
BTW, in building an Icon, I've been testing him against Superman and Captain Marvel and vice-versa. Originally, I thought my Marvel was better than my Superman. I've matched them before and Marvel would come on top. But after testing today, due to Superman's other offensive abilities, he overwhelms Marvel. Both(along with Icon) have the ability to hit really hard to surpass any invulnerabilities but Superman comes out on top.
Just another observation.
This is why, among other reasons, I pulled the 10 STR cap out of my copy of FFX. With just 1-10, there is very little room for graduated values. Some of the subtle differences get lost in the mix.
For instance, thanks to OHOTMU (whilst the actual numbers are crap), I've long been under the belief that Hercules is somewhat stronger than Thor in terms of actual lifting power. But how does one represent that difference in FF without raising the kinds of questions I've seen here? My Hercules is a 20 STR, and my Thor is a 19 STR. Hercules is stronger, but the difference is less egregious.
Similarly, this allows for not all Kryptonians to be the same STR. Ursa is a 18 STR. General Zod is a 19 STR. Non, like Superman, is a 20 STR ("The big one's just as strong as Superman.") Similarly, amongst my Marvel family, Mary is 18, Freddy 19, Billy and Adam 20.
Can you tell us how to modify strength like that? Is it possible to modify other attributes as well?
Quote from: Kenn on January 25, 2011, 10:59:35 AM
This is why, among other reasons, I pulled the 10 STR cap out of my copy of FFX. With just 1-10, there is very little room for graduated values. Some of the subtle differences get lost in the mix.
For instance, thanks to OHOTMU (whilst the actual numbers are crap), I've long been under the belief that Hercules is somewhat stronger than Thor in terms of actual lifting power. But how does one represent that difference in FF without raising the kinds of questions I've seen here? My Hercules is a 20 STR, and my Thor is a 19 STR. Hercules is stronger, but the difference is less egregious.
Similarly, this allows for not all Kryptonians to be the same STR. Ursa is a 18 STR. General Zod is a 19 STR. Non, like Superman, is a 20 STR ("The big one's just as strong as Superman.") Similarly, amongst my Marvel family, Mary is 18, Freddy 19, Billy and Adam 20.
If you go into the FFX.PY file inside the "FFX_SetStrength" and "InitHeavyLifter" routines there are two lines in particular in both places:
if str>9:
str=9
These are the specific commands that cap STR at 10 (the value is 1 plus the number). If you comment these lines out by putting pound signs in the beginning of both lines:
# if str>9:
# str=9
they won't be executed.
The other thing is that using the FFX combined attributes, heavylifter can be used multiple times. I've also added a few "heavylifter" near-clones using different values. "Heavylifter" is +3; "superstrong" is +5; "bonustrong" is +2, and "extrastrong" is +1. This lets me tailor my combined attributes as I see to add a variety of values.
As far as the other attributes go, I haven't actually tried it with END or ENG. I think it works with Agility, but it's hard to tell. While it can be done with SPD, there is something, I believe in the original engine, that makes attack powers not work if your SPD exceeds 10.
Also, I'm still on :ff: so I don't know what :ffvstr: will and won't allow.
Ahh great!thanks for the response... I've always wanted to set it at a scale of twenty or something across all five to allow for more customization.
Kenn, I'm curious if removing the Strength cap has any effect on melee damage or, since it works in conjunction with Heavy Lifter, does it only affect lifting and throwing (as the attribute states).
When M25 synthesised the "heavylifter" attribute for use in combined attributes he didn't do anything with the "no increase in damage" aspect of it. That said, yes, increasing STR will increase melee damage considerably. A "crushing" level 5 medium attack with a 19 STR against "stone" has a base damage of 40. The same attack against the same target with a 20 STR has a base damage of 42. With a heavy attack it will be 60 and 63. Against "flesh" these values are basically doubled.
Thanks for the reply. I saw that there was an update to the attribute besides being available for combos, but couldn't find the documentation on what was done.
Do you make any adjustments for ranged powers? I currently leave power levels alone for melee, but try to respectively increase them for ranged attacks to try to equal them out. I know Light Speed is an option, but then I worry about available attribute slots, doing too much damage, and so on.
I'm subject to putting Captain Marvel equal with Superman, but that is more due to subjective bias than objective observation. I use 9 for the knockoffs like Supergirl, Superboy, Cap Jr, and such.
I've just been eyeballing it based on my personal biases but I may actually use the increased strength like Kenn.
Yay! not a dead thread! =D....So I was fiddling with some options for a micro-munitions approach for Iron man. I picked a projectile added, homing, very slow, Flight spawn 4, and a random energy fx and was very very pleased with the results. I though to make it really affordable so I made the energy cost high and the magnitude very low....with no knock back or stun. The results were truly amazing. It one shotted so many heros in sandbox mode. Total Win! =) :thumbup: :ffvstr: :ff:
That's pretty cool sounding.
Proximity mines can be fun too, especially with high upward knockback.
I edited my ffx.py file to have strength go beyond 10 but it didn't seem to work. When you go into the character creator in game the +sign maxes out at ten. When you edit this in fx.py will you see it go beyond 10 while in the character creator, or do you have to use ffx edit or something. Thanks!
Quote from: scc on October 05, 2011, 10:17:50 PM
I edited my ffx.py file to have strength go beyond 10 but it didn't seem to work. When you go into the character creator in game the +sign maxes out at ten. When you edit this in fx.py will you see it go beyond 10 while in the character creator, or do you have to use ffx edit or something. Thanks!
I remember hearing that somebody edited individual characters to somehow have more than that. Also a lot of FFX attributes push the limits, so if you want "cosmic" strenght use something that adds strenght like Defense Mechanism. That way I've seen Hulks and Supermen really push the limits of the game.
That said I rarely have to push limits like that. I'm a "everybody sucks" designer while for example Benton who posts on this thread is an "everyone is awesome" hero file designer.
That means that he uses more damage and armor than I do, so if two of his characters fight or two of mine fight the results are consistent. That said if his Aquaman ever fought my aquaman, my aquaman would probably die in 2 seconds.
Probably, Lu, probably. Haha, this is a very interesting thread, and it has taken me an age and a day, but I finally got around to posting some thoughts about my herofiles philosophy. So, interesting facts, hmm? Well, something that I find interesting (and I might very well be the only one) is that my design philosophy has changed pretty dramatically in the last few years. When I designed the pantheon of the DCUG, a huge array of characters covering most of the DC Universe, I focused on being as accurate as possible. I had a pretty narrow approach, and had a pretty formulaic way of building my characters. Everybody who was a brawler got a regular attack and a combo, and maybe some other stuff. Characters who had a lot of powers or were very versatile had all 10 power slots filled, like Batman or Superman. On the other hand, characters whose powers or skills were more specific had only a handful of powers, like Aqualad.
Lately though, I played back through both FF games, and I was really struck with just how well all of the characters were designed. They were all so unique and interesting, and most of them had all 10 power slots filled. So, I've been designing my characters to follow that type of strategy. I try to fill all 10 slots (especially for heroes who will be used in campaigns), focusing on making characters unique and interesting. All Captain America can do is brawl and throw his shield, really, but instead of just giving him two or three melee attacks and a shield throw, I give him a variety of attacks that are useful in different situations. He can cripple a foe, stun him, knock him back, or toss him across the map. The Thing is strong and tough, but he's also good at wrestling, so he can grapple foes and throw them.
That said, I still really focus on accuracy. I don't ever want Bucky to be able to take Thor in a fair fight. I'm also using a different frame of reference for my Marvel mod, which is where I've been doing most of my new herofile work. My experience with DC is laregly from the stories of the 70's and 80's, plus JLU. For Marvel, I'm most familiar with the classic stories of the 60's and early 70's. So, the characters are, in general, not quite as powerful as they eventually became over the years.
Well, anyway, I hope that someone out there will find that interesing. It was certainly more fun for me to talk about than it was for me to grade the papers sitting in front of me.
My philosophy is similar to Benton:
1) Stats are always on the low end... 4 str can lift a car so I keep that in mind. 3 is pretty much anyone with any training, so if you are an X-Man/Woman you probably have 3. 2 is usually just kid sidekicks, civilians and elderly characters.
2) Everyone has at least one free attack, often melee. Melee always has at least a microscopic chance of stun.
3) Anyone with combat training usually has at least one move specializing in stun, at least one in knockback and one in pure damage for piercing armor.
4) I prefer stuff that lowers damage by percentage than by a flat number. Flat damage reduction is only for characters that should completely shrug off bullets, human punches, etc. I rarely reduce damage by more than 10.
5) Sonic is usually bashing with low damage and high stun.
6) Not big on passive defense, except for dodgers, temporary force fields and immunities.
Yeah, I've gotten to be somewhat careful about using passive defenses too, but I often have SOME form of passive defense, even if it is very rare. I've kept pretty much everyone who is street level or vanilla human at 3 strength, but I've begun to run into trouble from the strength knockback bug and I've been fudging that line more these days.
I do similar. If I'm giving a single character more than one type of attack(melee, range, area, etc) I'd want it to have a different effect. Such as maybe a standard punch, a melee attack with a heavy stun(and less damage), a melee attack with a larger knockback. That's three separate attacks.
Additionally, because of FFX, I've be using passive defenses less, but I have been using it for a number of "martial artist"(Batman, Daredevil, etc) to give them a higher probability to block most melee attacks, which in turn gives them a higher value in a fight. Also characters like Wonder Woman and Captain America have a passive defense against range attacks too.