... and I keep asking myself "What is this (bleep)?"
Yeah, pretty much.
I'm holding out hope, but not a lot. I will do my best to go see it, but I won't be expecting awesomeness.
You guys are killing me. :(
We are not responsible.
As near as I can tell, the producers and such saw the Batman/Green Hornet crossover and have confused the two.
Either that, or, with absolutely no respect for the character, they think the idea of The Green Hornet is funny.
Am I trying too hard to be positive in saying "It looks a LOT better than The Spirit!"
Seriosly, as long as it is fun I will dig it, and right now it looks fun. If they ruin that part, they will really be left with nothing.
I knew Seth Rogen would be COMPLETELY wrong for the part from the moment it was announced. Then I found out he is credited as a writer on the script as well, and that sealed it for me. I'll rent it when it comes to Redbox.
Such a pity.
Quote from: lugaru on December 24, 2010, 02:35:42 PM
Am I trying too hard to be positive in saying "It looks a LOT better than The Spirit!"
Yeah, but Howard The Duck looks better than The Spirit. That's another one that Seemed like it could be okay. (The Spirit, not Howard).
All you need to know about Hollywood and respecting source material is smeared all over the 3 Transformers films. Yes...I am predicting that Transformers 3 will suck...and suck huge.
Quote from: daglob on December 25, 2010, 05:25:22 AM
Quote from: lugaru on December 24, 2010, 02:35:42 PM
Am I trying too hard to be positive in saying "It looks a LOT better than The Spirit!"
Yeah, but Howard The Duck looks better than The Spirit. That's another one that Seemed like it could be okay. (The Spirit, not Howard).
Visually I think Frank Miller did a great job, so no matter how you slice it The Spirit "looked" great. It even had a couple of nice moments... but overall what a stinker. Awful mix of being too juvenile and too adult, and dumb from start to end. Nice babes though, and a few decent fights.
Just curious...
... I keep hearing lack of respect for source material --- and I'm wondering where?
Just from the trailers I can tell; Britt is still in the newspaper business and the "face" of the pair so to speak. Kato is still of Asian decent and the sidekick who is much more than a sidekick/still being the inventor, driver and mechanic of the gadgets and Black Beauty. They still have the characters of Mike Axford and Lenore Case in their basic roles. The concept as posing as bad guys, but really being a hero is intact. The outfits are faithful to the characters general designs and not sneered upon. The Black Beauty looks outstanding and VERY close to the classic.
The only thing I can think of is the modern setting of the story.
I think the real issue is the tone of the movie - not the accusation of lack of respect for the source material. I don't see anything suggesting this move as mostly a comedy as everyone fears.
You know, just wondering why it's ok for Iron Man to be an action flick with comedy in it... and not Green Hornet? Really --- I don't see anything suggesting this movie is a comedy like SuperHero movie, MeteorMan, Mystery Men or even Howard the Duck. What I do see it as is an action flick with bits of comedy in it like Hancock, Hellboy, Iron Man and quite a few others.
Is this going to be my dream Green Hornet movie? Not likely. But it doesn't look like its going to be the disaster that SciFi's Phantom was or the disappointment of Jonah Hex. It looks like this is going to be along the lines of the Shadow, a good movie. It looks like it hits all the important things I'm looking for in a Green Hornet movie. I'm certainly not going to let a little comedy ruin something as a whole.
Later!
Maybe it's because the scenes I've seen and the restaruant commercial portray GH as a yutz. Maybe I'm wrong; I remember that "The Frighteners" had two different commercials: one that made it look like "Ghostbusters", and one that made it look like "Nightmare on Elm Street".
Quote from: RTTingle on December 27, 2010, 12:15:23 AM
Just curious...
... I keep hearing lack of respect for source material --- and I'm wondering where?
Just from the trailers I can tell; Britt is still in the newspaper business and the "face" of the pair so to speak. Kato is still of Asian decent and the sidekick who is much more than a sidekick/still being the inventor, driver and mechanic of the gadgets and Black Beauty. They still have the characters of Mike Axford and Lenore Case in their basic roles. The concept as posing as bad guys, but really being a hero is intact. The outfits are faithful to the characters general designs and not sneered upon. The Black Beauty looks outstanding and VERY close to the classic.
The only thing I can think of is the modern setting of the story.
I think the real issue is the tone of the movie - not the accusation of lack of respect for the source material. I don't see anything suggesting this move as mostly a comedy as everyone fears.
You know, just wondering why it's ok for Iron Man to be an action flick with comedy in it... and not Green Hornet? Really --- I don't see anything suggesting this movie is a comedy like SuperHero movie, MeteorMan, Mystery Men or even Howard the Duck. What I do see it as is an action flick with bits of comedy in it like Hancock, Hellboy, Iron Man and quite a few others.
Is this going to be my dream Green Hornet movie? Not likely. But it doesn't look like its going to be the disaster that SciFi's Phantom was or the disappointment of Jonah Hex. It looks like this is going to be along the lines of the Shadow, a good movie. It looks like it hits all the important things I'm looking for in a Green Hornet movie. I'm certainly not going to let a little comedy ruin something as a whole.
Later!
It's also the tone of the humor. Iron Man got laughs because Tony would poke holes in himself to highlight his foibles, but the humor being shown in the trailers looks an awful lot like Seth Rogan being an adolescent slacker doofus (in other words, pretty much every other Seth Rogan character). Now I will admit that I am not totally familiar with the Green Hornet but I get the impression that "adolescent slacker doofus humor" is off the mark. If they wanted to go the humor route someone, like the Jack Black stock character (well-intentioned, over eager schlubb) might have fit the GH character better.
I'm sure the movie is all about how he starts as an adolescent slacker doofus and becomes and kick arse serious crime fighter man. So by the end he'll be the Green Hornet for real. I don't see that as much of a problem. I think this movie will probably turn out okay, and might even be quite liked by some youths who will then get into the source material and will later be totally down with the character.
I saw The Shadow when I was young, and loved it, then listened to the radio serial, then got a bunch of Shadow comics then worked back to the books. I don't think The Shadow movie was really that bad, but even if it was I'd have to credit it with giving me a love of the character that lasted to this day.
Shrugs --- maybe its just me.
Never in a million years would I have pictured RDjr as Tony Stark, much less Iron Man. Yet he pulled it off. And really... is there a difference in how he plays Tony Stark aside from his other amusing characters? Nope. Save for maybe a bit of an accent, a change in pace of his patter --- his smirk and style is all the same --- it's still obviously RDjr
I'm a little disappointed how people are jumping on Seth Rogen as unable to pull off the character, especially since many people really aren't very familiar with the character. He looked decent in a cop's uniform in Superbad, managed to pull off some action in Pineapple Express. Do I see Rogen as the next all out action hero? Of course not. But this is the Green Hornet -- a normal person. We're not talking Superman or Conan here. Is Rogen pulling a Tom Hanks or Robin Williams and going dark? No... but do we really need that? I LOVE what Nolan did for Batman, but do we need to see that for every comic character now?
Honestly, there has not been many iterations of the GH over the years, but IDW really did some twists with the character, not only did they kill off the original GH, Britt after a few issues... the new GH Alan Reid was killed in his first mission... then replaced by another relative, Paul who was a concert pianist to keep it going! Kato in that run is even more confusing and was a rotating door of characters. They even did the female Kato before Smith thought of it. So it's not like there is one iteration of the GH only and this movie is making a mockery of the source material.
Is the GH a joke? Obviously not --- they have plenty of action but he's not Nolan's Dark Knight either. It's obvious through the course of the trailer its a character that makes changes after something tragic happens to them and is going through redemption as well. So he's not a boy scout from the start and in fact --- a bit of a spoiled playboy. Sounds familiar.
But lets cut Rogen a break over a few laughs. The movies, much less action flicks, and hero flicks more specific have a history of showing us the people who make us laugh can do more. Browse your action flick library... browse the hero flicks... take note of the names and keep 'em in mind when you think of the Green Hornet.
Later,
Rich
I don't have an emotional investment in the GH characters; so, I won't be let down if things are changed to make them entertaining in different kind of medium for a different kind of audience. As long as the movie is entertaining in of itself, I expect to enjoy. For the same reason, I tend to enjoy movies about Marvel characters than I do about DC characters. I read mostly DC as a kid and I have more of an emotional investment in them and would be more disappointed about factors that are more important to me.
I remember watching a teaser awhile back... and my reaction at the time was "Why is the Green Hornet acting like a putz?"
There is a difference between an action flick with some humor in it and a comedy disguised as an action flick. 'Die Hard' vs 'The Naked Gun', for example. Don't get me wrong, 'The Naked Gun' was a riot and I'm not comparing it to this GH movie coming up. The Green Hornet might turn out to be very funny, but I'm not sure that this should be a comedy disguised as an action flick. I'm betting it's no 'Die Hard'.
I admit I don't know much about the Green Hornet, but Seth Rogan's performance in that teaser did not inspire me to want to watch it. So if I am in the target audience, they missed the mark.
Seth Rogan.
No.
Quote from: BlueBard on December 29, 2010, 10:03:25 PM
I remember watching a teaser awhile back... and my reaction at the time was "Why is the Green Hornet acting like a putz?"
There is a difference between an action flick with some humor in it and a comedy disguised as an action flick. 'Die Hard' vs 'The Naked Gun', for example. Don't get me wrong, 'The Naked Gun' was a riot and I'm not comparing it to this GH movie coming up. The Green Hornet might turn out to be very funny, but I'm not sure that this should be a comedy disguised as an action flick. I'm betting it's no 'Die Hard'.
I admit I don't know much about the Green Hornet, but Seth Rogan's performance in that teaser did not inspire me to want to watch it. So if I am in the target audience, they missed the mark.
It could end up being a good Action Comedy, think all of Jackie Chan. Some of my favorite action movies are funny, such as Long Kiss Goodnight or more recently Red is a nice mix of action and laughs.
After I saw the teaser, I could only think of one thing relating to this movie.
They don't have to sell The Green Hornet to Seth Rogen fans. They have to sell Seth Rogen in an action film as a comic book hero.
The problem is that the two main groups of fan base for this film are not going to mesh well.
Rogen fans want to see Rogen be funny. That's his strong suit. The Green Hornet fans want to see the old pulp serial action.
It's going to be easier to sell this movie as an action flick disguised as comedy than it is to see Rogen as a serious actor and action film star. The filmmakers know this and they are running with it, I think. I'm not sure I agree with the idea of playing up the comedic elements of the film in the trailers but oh well. That said, it definitely sets it apart from other comic book movies being made right now by highlighting those elements.
Well, doesn't work for me. And I will see pretty much any Pulp hero related movie. I guess I'm not meshing
well. apparently didn't go over well at comic-con.
http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/112353-michel-gondry-upset-by-comic-con-audience
Quote from: steamteck on December 31, 2010, 08:43:33 PM
well. apparently didn't go over well at comic-con.
http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/112353-michel-gondry-upset-by-comic-con-audience
When all else fails, blame the audience.
Yeah, part of why I play devils advocate is that Michael Gondry is one of my favorite directors, somebody who could knock a project such as Sandman out of the park. I dont know how he got tangled up in a totally conventional film like this...
That said I understand what he is complaining about... comics are the most creative and crazy medium and a lot of fans tend to be extrmely close minded. People like Allan Moore, Warren Ellis, Garth Enis and Mark Millar have played with that idea in comics... but then again I'm the sort of guy who reads comics from Avatar and enjoys transgressive superhero stories like Watchmen or more recently Absolution. I love stuff like the Marvel "All Ages" line but I'll buy just about any R rated comic.
Quote from: Tawodi Osdi on January 01, 2011, 12:34:32 AM
Quote from: steamteck on December 31, 2010, 08:43:33 PM
well. apparently didn't go over well at comic-con.
http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/112353-michel-gondry-upset-by-comic-con-audience
When all else fails, blame the audience.
Again, the question I have based on the trailer is "who is the intended audience"? I am gathering that the intended audience are Seth Rogen fans and not fans of The Green Hornet per se or of comics. At least that is who the marketing is toward.
I'm with RTTingle.
When I saw the preview before "Tron Legacy" I thought "this looks great". And I'm no Seth Rogan fan - not sure I've seen him in anything besides a celebrity guest on "Mythbusters". But I've listened to "Green Hornet" radio episodes and watched the TV programme, and think Green Hornet and his masked aide are great characters.
That said, I've always seen/heard their story in medias res - after Britt is the crusading publisher. I've never experienced his origin (save for one small side note). And as far as it goes the idea that prior to his father's death Britt was a carousing playboy makes sense to me. And that maybe it did take time to get the weapons working right. The two biggest changes are that Britt is no longer a stoic, humourless, wooden character and that his father's name is no longer "Dan Jr."
(And as far as it goes, given the 21st century setting of the film, Britt's father being the Ranger's nephew is no longer believable.)
But all that said, there was one clip in the preview that more than any other one me over. It was near the end. It showed a figure in a beige, off-the-rack, top coat, a fedora, and a green kerchief-style mask. And he was standing with Kato. And if one has ever seen a 1940s Green Hornet comic book (or just the covers of a few of them, as is my case) there is a chance that you might actually recognise the outfit. It was what Green Hornet looked like in the GH comic books from when my dad was growing up.
My suspicion is that in the film it's some kind of what-Brit-wears-the-first-time-before-deciding-to-make-a-cooler-looking-outfit. But it was there. It was included. And THAT tells me that the filmmakers did their research. It shows they do have a respect for the "legend" even if they aren't trying to perfectly recreate the TV series/comics/radio show.
Then again, I also grew up with my Dad telling me that the TV Green Hornet's mask was wrong because it wasn't covering his nose and mouth. To someone who grew up listening to the Hornet, the TV show was messing with it. (I am so glad that my Dad's a genre geek too.)
And as far as the target audience is concerned... I'm sorry, the Green Hornet premiered on the radio 75 years ago. The TV show was a one-season wonder 44 years ago that's better remembered because it launched Bruce Lee's career. The property had enough cultural impact that the name still means something, but the Hornet is not that well-known anymore outside certain rarefied circles. Sure, on a message board dedicated to the sequel of an 8 year old computer game about comic book style super heroes, I'd expect a lot of us to know Brit Reid, Kato, the Daily Sentinel, Lenore Case, Mike Oxford, etc. But walk into a sports bar or a high school and ask a random person "what can you tell me about the Green Hornet?" you'll be lucky if they know Kato. And to them, Black Beauty's a horse.
I'm sorry, but we aren't the target audience. We are a tiny minority. The few fans in a cottage industry that like and hold onto older properties. The movie makers want a movie that will fill theatres repeatedly. They're aiming at a far more general audience, and if they change the tone to fill seats...
And they still included the 1940s outfit briefly.
Link to the trailer I saw : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHr9evQP89s
Looks like Green Hornet is dealing with the usual comic book movie issues --- outcry that no way can this person play this character.
It looks like the issue everyone has, is with Seth Rogen. From that casting people are writing this off as comedy... without giving this a chance. I am a Seth Rogen fan, so I guess I'm in the minority. He makes me laugh, I like his down to earth goofball bit and I think the usual gang of actors and filmmakers he is a part of are very enjoyable.
I'm a huge Green Hornet fan... if anyone should be spitting nails about this. It's me. I have the radio shows. I have the old serials on DVD (With that old mask Kenn! BTW --- I hear they did drop a Lone Ranger tribute in the flick. They can't mention anything about the Lone Ranger/Green Hornet connection because they were both sold as seperate properties --- legalities and such ). I have several of the comic book runs. I'm just not finding the insult in this like everyone else is... and its baffling to me how other people are.
I am honestly baffled by it.
[Added after some thought and rereading a few threads and rewatching the trailers]
You know, I don't see GH being a putz anywhere. In fact, when I see the GH --- I see nothing but action. Now, when I see Britt Reid --- yes, I see someone who isn't exactly your idea of a serious hero. Maybe cause I was in sports, a hobby magician, involved in pro-wrestling, a Gemini, etc... seeing two different sides of a character is easy for me. I can understand how some athletes are utmost gentlemen off the field, but monsters on it and accept and kn ow them as both. Maybe people are assuming when Rogen is under the mask... the GH is a goofball too --- despite the trailer showing differently. Maybe thats the real problem?
RTT
The Ranger/Hornet connection is a funny thing. Fans all know about it, but it was never said. On the radio, we met Dan Reid on both shows, but when Dan showed Britt the picture of his great uncle - a masked man on a horse - no name was mentioned. The William Tell overture played, but they never said "Lone Ranger".
S'ok, I'll give you that the trailer that Kenn linked puts a more hopeful shine on this.
Wait, "Mr. Mom" is going to be Batman?
Quote from: Kenn on January 01, 2011, 06:07:13 PM
Wait, "Mr. Mom" is going to be Batman?
I was just about to touch on that. ^_^ (get your minds out of the gutter. :angry: this is a family-friendly forum! ;)) I guess I'll have to console myself with "There's going to be a klingon on the bridge of the Enterprise!?! That's stupid!"
There are times, however, when the teeth gnashing that goes along with announced casting are well founded. Alicia Silverstone as Batgirl. Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy. Nick Cage as Superman. Jack Black as Green Lantern. Granted, a lot of the problems we have had in the genre being translated to movies have been more a problem with scripting or directing, but casting can also play a role in things being bad.
Having said all that, I saw a new trailer last night, kind of short, and it focused only on all of the action bits, with no character dialogue. Obviously aimed at a different demographic than the earlier link.
to me it has more to do with the intended cast as a whole, not a single actor. In most of the cases you mentioned as bad, it wasn't just one person who set things off poorly. B&R has Ahnold, thurman, silverstone, etc. Cage's superman's also included Tim Burton, whose film style is almost too gothic for Batman, let alone Superman. Conversely, Begins may have had Mr. Mom, but it was also filled with other great actors... Neeson, Caine, Oldman, etc.
One actor does not a film make... especially the title character. Worry more about the director, the producer, and the supporting cast.
Mater, you seem a little confused with your Batman movies. The Batman with Mr Mom was the one with Michael Keaton as Batman and Jack Nicholson as the Joker. I admit I was skeptical of Keaton as Batman because your typical Keaton character was either a blue collar worker or a slob and not someone who was either heroic like Batman or classy like Bruce Wayne, but he managed to pull off both roles decently enough.
Blah... In my defense, I wrote that in between my two plane flights today and I was only barely paying attention. Either way though, Keaton was surrounded by actors like Jack Nicholson and Michael Gough, so it wasn't like he was exactly in a vacuum either.
Quote from: Kenn on January 01, 2011, 06:07:13 PM
Wait, "Mr. Mom" is going to be Batman?
Oh, no. Johnny Dangerously is.
Quote from: RTTingle on January 01, 2011, 03:58:54 PM
Looks like Green Hornet is dealing with the usual comic book movie issues --- outcry that no way can this person play this character.
You know, I don't see GH being a putz anywhere. In fact, when I see the GH --- I see nothing but action.
RTT
Dude, are you watching the same trailer I am?
Spoiler
Shooting himself with the gas gun- putz
Shooting Kato with the gas gun - putz
"Let's call him the Green Bee!"- putz
The doofy expression on his face when he goes "we'll act like villians but really be heroes" -putz
Now, if you want to be charitable, you can write off the third one as keeping up an act in front of others. But the others just destroy Rogen's credibility as the character in my eyes. GH should be like Batman - when the people who are in on the secret are around- he drops the act and is totally focused. The fact that he's acting like a putz when hes only with people who know the secret makes him a putz 100% of the time, sorry.
Its not the look- he looks fine. Hell, I've seen a trailer where he barely opens his mouth as the GH, and that looks like a movie I'd be interested in seeing. But they insist on showing him as a putz, which is completely the wrong take on the character and more or less completely kills my interest.
I've got nothing against humor- I think Katos line from the trailer "I'll go with you, but I don't want to touch you" is killer- but it arises naturally from the situation and the characters- not from one of the actors shoehorning his trademark putz-makes-good routine in where it doesn't belong.
I'm pretty sure I'm the target audience for this and I don't think that's a problem because a movie like this should. I go to see a lot of movies featuring the same cast members from 40 Year Old Virgin again and again and they are usually funny. I go to see most comic book movies if they look good and often when they don't. I'm not going to see this in theaters unless someone tells me it's awesome, which I strongly doubt based on the trailers. No line in any of the trailers made me laugh, and the action is heavy on sparking gunshots and CGI bodies being kicked by a CGI guy which kinda spoils the only reason I ever watched Green Hornet: Bruce Lee kicking other people. If anyone on here who sees it is like "sweet! ... also I hated X-Men 3" and rottentomatoes is like "60% or more!* " I would go see it I guess but I feel like that's not the case.
*Though the worst movie of all time, The American, is in at 65% while this year's hidden gem of a comedy Cop Out is at 19%, so maybe I should start ignoring that.
You guys must be seeing something different in the trailers than me. I barely know the Green Hornet so i have no investment in the character but it doesn't liook like a movie I'd want to see. it just looks stupid and unheroic.
Quote from: lugaru on January 01, 2011, 02:42:37 AM
Yeah, part of why I play devils advocate is that Michael Gondry is one of my favorite directors, somebody who could knock a project such as Sandman out of the park. I dont know how he got tangled up in a totally conventional film like this...
That said I understand what he is complaining about... comics are the most creative and crazy medium and a lot of fans tend to be extrmely close minded. People like Allan Moore, Warren Ellis, Garth Enis and Mark Millar have played with that idea in comics... but then again I'm the sort of guy who reads comics from Avatar and enjoys transgressive superhero stories like Watchmen or more recently Absolution. I love stuff like the Marvel "All Ages" line but I'll buy just about any R rated comic.
Sounds like we have exact reverse tastes in many ways. I'll skip on almost any R rated comic. I absolutely loathed the Watchman on a primal level and could rant about it for a very long time.
Probably one of us will enjoy thefilm them no matter how it turns out. LOL
The fact that the director was so offended by the reaction at Comic-Con is a pretty strong indication that:
1. Comic readers were in the target audience. (Or why would they have screened it there?)
2. They don't really get that target audience, or the reaction wouldn't have surprised them.
3. The director's comments indicate a general lack of respect for that target audience.
Fact remains, I can only go see so many movies and this one isn't making my list of "must-see".
I was at Barnes & Noble yesterday and I read 2 version of the Green Hornet. The first was an older graphic novel and GH was no joke. The way it was set up Kato was not GH sidekick, but more of a partner (like Batman & Nightwing). Then I picked up one that was a prequel to the new movie. It was more of a back story for Kato and how smart he is and how his fighting skills are. While it was interesting, it made GH look so stupid. It was like Robin training Batman. GH would said something like "Can I drive?" and Kato would replied "No cuz I don't want you to wreck the car again!" What kind of BS is that? Kato did all the work and GH hangs in the background.
Quote from: daglob on December 27, 2010, 03:19:42 AM
Maybe it's because the scenes I've seen and the restaruant commercial portray GH as a yutz. Maybe I'm wrong; I remember that "The Frighteners" had two different commercials: one that made it look like "Ghostbusters", and one that made it look like "Nightmare on Elm Street".
From what y'all are saying, it sounds like this is what is going on. Some publicity showing Seth Rogen comedy and some other publicity showing a serious action flick.
I still dont see green hornet fans as the target audience, simply because they are not that many. The comic has been doing so-so at best.
As far as Kato doing all the work... well... that is pretty much the way it always was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsO7Xr6njMA
Quote from: lugaru on January 03, 2011, 05:35:42 PM
I still dont see green hornet fans as the target audience, simply because they are not that many. The comic has been doing so-so at best.
As far as Kato doing all the work... well... that is pretty much the way it always was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsO7Xr6njMA
Not really. One clip with Kato being awesome isn't hard to find, but the two of them were partners in the old series. Kato was way better at hand-to-hand, and the Hornet was good with his gadgets and such. He was still good with his fists, and he could hold his own (as he does in that clip). However, it usually ended up with the Hornet figuring things out, and then the two of them jumping a gang of criminals. The Hornet would take one or two, maybe using gas or the sting to disable more, but Kato would take on three or more, putting them all down really quickly. They balanced out quite well.
I have to say, while Brit Reid was probably not always as awesome as he would become as the Hornet, it definitely does not fit the character to have him be a worthless frat boy putz. This is the descendant of the Lone Ranger's blood we're talking about after all. He's part of a heroic bloodline. The original Hornet mythos had him traveling to Africa and Asia as a young man, searching for adventure and such, not partying away his life. I'm sorry, but this travesty is most certainly a betrayal of the source material. Every time I so much as hear Seth Rogen's goofy voice speaking from behind that Hornet mask my stomach turns.
I imagine the posters who have indicated that people like myself (i.e., Green Hornet fans) are not the target audience for this flick are correct. However, that may not be intentional. I think what you've got here is a case where, as BlueBard says, the powers that be really don't get part of their audience. They thought they could tart up this character because no one knows him, and hey, his show was a spin-off of that campy Batman show, so it's gotta' be goofy anyway, right? Then, when people don't like what they've put together, they blame their audience. Personally, that director's response to the walkout disgusts me.
Well I think comics fans will hate Gondry after all this is over which is a shame, since he is a great director. Much like Comics fans hate Ang Lee, one of the best of our time.
Still he has made some near perfect movies and music videos. If comic fans "forgive him" he could make the perfect Sandman film.
Eternal Sunshine (A drama with Jim Carrey, another comedian).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSgSe2GzDc
Science of Sleep (with a beautiful, hand made dream feel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUCrM5i_W3c
I just can't understand how people over one facet of the character... say its a travesty of source material when they get everything else as close as possible. Its not like this is totally unique to this character, or never been portrayed this way before. Even in the Serials... the first 5 minutes it has Britt talking with Kato ---hoping he can prove to his father he is not just another lazy playboy.
I don't see it as a travesty of justice that this side of the character is being explored more. I find it more interesting. Its not that amazing to see someone who is heroic from the start take that extra step to become even more so. I like my hero being a little flawed so to speak... especially from the start. I like to see that transformation. I think its very plausible that someone who is a goof can go through a change and be heroic. I like the idea of the character being more than just one dimensional... a little more to his background to say and one thats not as heroic as Bruce Waynes so to speak.
I'm sorry ya'll see it this way that is a travesty. I simply don't.
I'd much rather see this... than have them change everything else and keep him completely heroic.
From what I've seen, it looks like they've made Brit into a klutz and possibly a bit stupid, and Kato into the brains AND brawn. That's what I don't like. The movie looks interesting visually, but as fan of the old radio show and the old NOW Comics series I'm probably going to give it a pass.
What gets me is the Trundle estate has been very protective of the Green Hornet. When NOW Comics introduced a female Kato in one of the Green Hornet comics, they put the kibosh on that (and it wasn't even the same Hornet and Kato, but their decendants). So I'm surprised they allowed the filmmakers to do something that's actually worse. But then again, I guess there's a lot more money to be made here.
There's talk of doing a new Shadow movie. Hope the same people aren't behind it, because the last thing I want to see is Dane Cook as Lamont Cranston! :P
I saw a different, longer trailer today, and it was 10-15% Seth Rogen playing a doofus and the rest looked like a fun movie.
Quote from: RTTingle on January 04, 2011, 05:01:41 AM
I just can't understand how people over one facet of the character... say its a travesty of source material when they get everything else as close as possible. Its not like this is totally unique to this character, or never been portrayed this way before. Even in the Serials... the first 5 minutes it has Britt talking with Kato ---hoping he can prove to his father he is not just another lazy playboy.
I don't see it as a travesty of justice that this side of the character is being explored more. I find it more interesting. Its not that amazing to see someone who is heroic from the start take that extra step to become even more so. I like my hero being a little flawed so to speak... especially from the start. I like to see that transformation. I think its very plausible that someone who is a goof can go through a change and be heroic. I like the idea of the character being more than just one dimensional... a little more to his background to say and one thats not as heroic as Bruce Waynes so to speak.
I'm sorry ya'll see it this way that is a travesty. I simply don't.
I'd much rather see this... than have them change everything else and keep him completely heroic.
RTT,
What I think I'm seeing here (and what I'm personally afraid of) is not a question of people worried about his heroism, but his competence. If the character starts out as a adolescent stoner doofus and grows into a hero I don't think anyone here would have a problem with that. The worry is that (given it's Seth Rogan) he will stay the adolescent stoner doofus comic foil, with Kato as the "real" the Green Hornet.
Quote from: Uncle Yuan on January 04, 2011, 12:03:27 PM
Quote from: RTTingle on January 04, 2011, 05:01:41 AM
I just can't understand how people over one facet of the character... say its a travesty of source material when they get everything else as close as possible. Its not like this is totally unique to this character, or never been portrayed this way before. Even in the Serials... the first 5 minutes it has Britt talking with Kato ---hoping he can prove to his father he is not just another lazy playboy.
I don't see it as a travesty of justice that this side of the character is being explored more. I find it more interesting. Its not that amazing to see someone who is heroic from the start take that extra step to become even more so. I like my hero being a little flawed so to speak... especially from the start. I like to see that transformation. I think its very plausible that someone who is a goof can go through a change and be heroic. I like the idea of the character being more than just one dimensional... a little more to his background to say and one thats not as heroic as Bruce Waynes so to speak.
I'm sorry ya'll see it this way that is a travesty. I simply don't.
I'd much rather see this... than have them change everything else and keep him completely heroic.
RTT,
What I think I'm seeing here (and what I'm personally afraid of) is not a question of people worried about his heroism, but his competence. If the character starts out as a adolescent stoner doofus and grows into a hero I don't think anyone here would have a problem with that. The worry is that (given it's Seth Rogan) he will stay the adolescent stoner doofus comic foil, with Kato as the "real" the Green Hornet.
The flip side of that argument is that it's VERY possible that Rogen's character will grow into the role. Remember, the decision Brit Reid makes in the trailer to become a superhero seems to be made in a rash random, spontaneous manner. He doesn't know what he's getting into, it seems Kato does. By the end of the movie, Britt has realized the responsibility of the role he's undertaking and starts to take it seriously. They become partners.
Spoiler
I'm even suspecting that Britt might be the second Green Hornet and his father was the first... with Kato (or perhaps Kato's father) has his sidekick.
Kato does come with some serious ordinance and gadgets... I would not be surprised if it is something to that effect Hamrick.
I find myself hoping that the movie follows a formula of "playboy/incompetent/doofus finds reason to alter his worldview to become more serious/competent/buttkicking." It could very well be that such is the case, and that the trailers just haven't done a very good job of protraying this metamorphosis. In my mind, the effect from the previews is more jarring because Seth Rogen appears to be even more of a playboy/incompetent/doofus than other examples of this trope.
When I saw Batman Begins and the Dark Knight, there was no doubt that the Bruce Wayne playboy was purely a cover act, and not the real character. In the Iron Man movies, Tony Stark still has a healthy chunk of genuine playboy in him, but it is countered by regular examples that the man is a frigging genius with some serious skills. In this comparative context, the trailer for GH makes Rogen's character look like a bumbling clown.
While the aforementioned Batman and Iron Man movies still had moments where the main character made a klutzy mistake, these were comparatively brief moments in the movies that made them look a little more human - and they certainly didn't show up in the previews. (E.g., Wayne's apparent disdain for reading instruction manuals for his equipment, and Tony Stark's first recorded attempt of using repulsor technology to hover.) In contrast, the much lambasted preview for GH seems to showcase Seth Rogen's ability to be bumbling and silly. Hence, the fear that the GH movie could go really, really wrong.
Just my opinion, of course. Hopefully, it is just a case of poor trailer-making.
Quote from: GhostMachine on January 04, 2011, 06:05:25 AMThere's talk of doing a new Shadow movie. Hope the same people aren't behind it, because the last thing I want to see is Dane Cook as Lamont Cranston! :P
Well, he's certainly ugly enough for the role! :lol:
Quote from: Mr. Hamrick on January 04, 2011, 01:33:56 PM
Quote from: Uncle Yuan on January 04, 2011, 12:03:27 PM
Quote from: RTTingle on January 04, 2011, 05:01:41 AM
I just can't understand how people over one facet of the character... say its a travesty of source material when they get everything else as close as possible. Its not like this is totally unique to this character, or never been portrayed this way before. Even in the Serials... the first 5 minutes it has Britt talking with Kato ---hoping he can prove to his father he is not just another lazy playboy.
I don't see it as a travesty of justice that this side of the character is being explored more. I find it more interesting. Its not that amazing to see someone who is heroic from the start take that extra step to become even more so. I like my hero being a little flawed so to speak... especially from the start. I like to see that transformation. I think its very plausible that someone who is a goof can go through a change and be heroic. I like the idea of the character being more than just one dimensional... a little more to his background to say and one thats not as heroic as Bruce Waynes so to speak.
I'm sorry ya'll see it this way that is a travesty. I simply don't.
I'd much rather see this... than have them change everything else and keep him completely heroic.
RTT,
What I think I'm seeing here (and what I'm personally afraid of) is not a question of people worried about his heroism, but his competence. If the character starts out as a adolescent stoner doofus and grows into a hero I don't think anyone here would have a problem with that. The worry is that (given it's Seth Rogan) he will stay the adolescent stoner doofus comic foil, with Kato as the "real" the Green Hornet.
The flip side of that argument is that it's VERY possible that Rogen's character will grow into the role. Remember, the decision Brit Reid makes in the trailer to become a superhero seems to be made in a rash random, spontaneous manner. He doesn't know what he's getting into, it seems Kato does. By the end of the movie, Britt has realized the responsibility of the role he's undertaking and starts to take it seriously. They become partners.
Spoiler
I'm even suspecting that Britt might be the second Green Hornet and his father was the first... with Kato (or perhaps Kato's father) has his sidekick.
The formula of the movie character being a descendant of the original worked out well with the Maverick movie. Realizing that the Gibson's Maverick wasn't Gardner's Maverick was a terrific surprise.
Are we still talking about this?
Ok... when somebody goes and actually sees the movie, please post a review. Maybe you'll change my mind or maybe you'll confirm my first impression. Until then, is this really worth our time?
Quote from: lugaru on January 03, 2011, 10:37:09 PM
Well I think comics fans will hate Gondry after all this is over which is a shame, since he is a great director. Much like Comics fans hate Ang Lee, one of the best of our time.
Still he has made some near perfect movies and music videos. If comic fans "forgive him" he could make the perfect Sandman film.
Eternal Sunshine (A drama with Jim Carrey, another comedian).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSgSe2GzDc
Science of Sleep (with a beautiful, hand made dream feel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUCrM5i_W3c
Haha, you're probably right. Deserved or undeserved, I certainly have a bit of a grudge against Ang Lee after that Hulk movie. If this Gondry is the fellow who made Eternal Sunshine, though, I suppose it is obvious that he's a very talented fellow. I loved that movie. However, talented or not, his comments don't fill me with much respect for him personally.
Quote from: Uncle Yuan on January 04, 2011, 12:03:27 PM
RTT,
What I think I'm seeing here (and what I'm personally afraid of) is not a question of people worried about his heroism, but his competence. If the character starts out as a adolescent stoner doofus and grows into a hero I don't think anyone here would have a problem with that. The worry is that (given it's Seth Rogan) he will stay the adolescent stoner doofus comic foil, with Kato as the "real" the Green Hornet.
Precisely Yuan, although for my part, even if it is written in such a way that a respectable transformation is called for in the script, I have zero faith in Rogen's ability to portray that.
BB, yeah, you're right...but where would the fun be in something a sensible as that. :D
New trailer Gangsta's Paradise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIcDUG4gFEY
First time I saw it I thought: IT SUX! watching it again, it's not so bad, kinda funny.
Quote from: JeyNyce on January 05, 2011, 09:10:46 PM
New trailer Gangsta's Paradise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIcDUG4gFEY
First time I saw it I thought: IT SUX! watching it again, it's not so bad, kinda funny.
Cute... clever use of the song, considering. Heh heh heh.
I managed to snag preview passes for a showing the night before release. I'll toss up my review.
Later,
Rich
Quote from: RTTingle on January 07, 2011, 01:12:10 PM
Quote from: JeyNyce on January 05, 2011, 09:10:46 PM
New trailer Gangsta's Paradise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIcDUG4gFEY
First time I saw it I thought: IT SUX! watching it again, it's not so bad, kinda funny.
Cute... clever use of the song, considering. Heh heh heh.
I managed to snag preview passes for a showing the night before release. I'll toss up my review.
Later,
Rich
I look forward to your review.
Quote from: RTTingle on January 07, 2011, 01:12:10 PM
Quote from: JeyNyce on January 05, 2011, 09:10:46 PM
New trailer Gangsta's Paradise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIcDUG4gFEY
First time I saw it I thought: IT SUX! watching it again, it's not so bad, kinda funny.
Cute... clever use of the song, considering. Heh heh heh.
I managed to snag preview passes for a showing the night before release. I'll toss up my review.
Later,
Rich
I was thinking about trying to get preview passes but as awful as I have felt the past few days, I'm gonna be doing good to make it into town to the bank today. Beyond that, I don't want to make any plans I have not already made for the next couple weeks.
While I haven't really been following the Green Hornet saga, this week I heard Seth R. being interviewed on the Howard Stern show - and he certainly made it seem interested. He took it seriously enough that he forced himself through physical training because he didn't want to have a fat Green Hornet. But he did position it as more of a buddy movie than a traditional super hero movie, and he did position his character as a bit goofy. He also mentioned the fact that, unlike Bruce Lee, this Kato is not a martial artist but a dancer. That could work for me since I loved David Carradine in the old Kung Fu tv show, and that was his background, as well.
Based on the actor/writer, I think I'll like this movie ... especially since I'm not really familiar with Green Hornet canon beyond what I saw in the one-season show way back when.
Still, its not a movie I will rush out to see regardless of the reviews (like I don't care who says what about Thor, I'm there!) For this one, I'll probably wait to read the reviews (of movie-goers, and not critics, who I no longer trust with these things).
I will see this, but with an air of skepticism. It will either confirm how I feel about Seth Rogan, or completely redeem him. Which makes it kinda exciting.
AICN review for the Green Hornet. I'm seeing it tomorrow night... I'll have mine up soon after.
QuoteNordling buzzes about THE GREEN HORNET
Published on: Jan 12, 2011 1:06:21 CST
January has long been considered the dump month when it comes to new releases. Audiences are either watching the tiered release of Oscar nominees and hopefuls or the studios release films during that month that either have bad buzz surrounding them or had difficult shoots and not a lot of hope in those films' success. It's a hard month for movies. People are burned out over Christmas spending and going out and most would rather just stay home.
It must have been especially difficult for THE GREEN HORNET to find a good release date. It's a superhero movie in a market that's full of them, and it's also a Seth Rogen comedy at a time when he might not be the most marketable of stars right now. His OBSERVE AND REPORT didn't do so well at the box office – although it's a fantastic film and worthy of the cult status it so richly deserves – and comic book superhero comedies don't exactly inspire a vast following. Just ask MYSTERY MEN.
THE GREEN HORNET's been struggling to get made for a few years now. Kevin Smith was famously linked to it for a while, and then it changed hands before Rogen and co-writer Evan Goldberg got a hold of the project. At one point Stephen Chow was going to direct, but that didn't happen. When Michel Gondry became attached to the film, people began to wonder what, exactly, a superhero film directed by the man who brought us films like ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND and THE SCIENCE OF SLEEP would look like, especially once it was announced that it would open in 3D.
You would think all these uncertain variables would spell disaster for the film, but fear not – THE GREEN HORNET is incredibly fun, witty, and a real change of pace for films normally released this time of year. Rogen and Goldberg's script is funny without being too clever, Gondry's direction of the various action set pieces is well done and for post-conversion 3D, Gondry uses the technology well and creates an immersive world where he gets to play.
Britt Reid (Rogen) is a spoiled rich kid brat, waking up every morning to his perfect cup of coffee and with some nameless woman he met the night before while he partied. Britt lives in the shadow of his disapproving father, James Reid (Tom Wilkinson). The newspaper which James owns, currently run by his father's friend Axford (Edward James Olmos) is constantly pointing out the corruption and crime that seems endemic to the city but Britt seemingly has no interest in any of that. But when James dies unexpectedly, Britt begins to question how he lived his life. Britt hires back Kato (Jay Chou), his father's driver, after he discovers that Kato was the one who made his amazing coffee every morning. Kato's incredibly talented – he can draw, build, drive, fight, and make a damn great cup of coffee. They quickly become good friends.
In a drunken stupor, Britt and Kato decide to go cut off the head of his father's newly dedicated statue, and then they witness a crime in progress and decide to get involved. With Kato's skill of slowing down time in his mind to dispatch several bad guys at once, Britt has an idea – they could be superheroes by pretending to be evil villains. Their path puts them at odds with Chudnovsky (Christoph Waltz) who wants to take over all crime in Los Angeles. With the aid of his newspaper, Britt is able to get the Green Hornet on the front page. But Britt's immaturity threatens his new friendship with Kato.
First thing off the bat – this movie's Jay Chou's. He's extremely likable, funny, and pretty damn kick arse as Kato. I hope big things happen for this guy here in the States (he's already a major celebrity in Asia), as he would deserve it. He's a commanding presence on screen and just a joy to watch. Rogen keeps up with him well, however; they have an excellent chemistry together and you believe these two men with such different backgrounds become real friends.
Seth Rogen is funny as usual and since it's his material he dives in with real dedication and wit. I've never understood the current backlash Rogen's apparently under; his characters are all different in their ways and he has an innate charm that he brings to every part, even when he's playing something loathsome like his OBSERVE AND REPORT character or even here when his jealousy threatens to undermine everything he's built with the Green Hornet and his relationships around him.
Gondry directs his action scenes quite well, and he uses 3D in the way as it was intended: as a tool and not a distraction. I'm still on the fence about 3D; when done right it helps the film but when done wrong (CLASH OF THE TITANS) it just looks terrible and makes bad movies even worse. This is a post-conversion 3D, as they didn't shoot it for 3D originally; however the conversion's so good that it looks like every shot was composed with the intent of releasing it in 3D. This wasn't a rush job – the visuals pop and it's quite immersive. There's one scene in particular where Gondry uses split screen to show his villains' actions that was really innovative; each square moved independently of the others and in 3D it was quite amazing to see. When Kato goes into fighting mode it's especially impressive. The camera focuses on each of the opponents Kato fights and when the background expands accordion-like when Kato attacks it's visually stunning.
It's not a perfect film by any means – there's some fat in the middle as Britt and Kato establish their relationship and soon to be rivalry and Cameron Diaz's scenes pretty much stop the film cold. But those scenes aren't very often and Christoph Waltz makes up for them with a funny performance as a villain who seems to be looking for respect among his contemporaries. His Chudnovsky (and later Bloodnovsky) just proves how much fun Waltz is to watch onscreen – INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS wasn't a fluke by any means. I'm actually looking forward to seeing WATER FOR ELEPHANTS because of him.
THE GREEN HORNET's worth your time. Funny, action-packed, and visually interesting, Michel Gondry's made a mainstream film that shoots for the cheap seats but manages to hit his target most of the time. Seth Rogen and Jay Chou are a really good team and I'd like to see them on further adventures now that the origin's been dispensed with. It's clever without being annoying about it, and a good night at the movies, which in these troubled times may be just the ticket for many of us. Go see it.
Nordling, out.
So Seth Rogen does stink up the movie, Cameron Diaz does.
Jey, think you meant to say:
QuoteSo Seth Rogen doesn't stink up the movie
What Bard said
Hey Folks!
Well, it seems as if the Green Hornet is a lot more popular than many thought. The preview I went to see tonight was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overbooked and I couldn't get in. No worries, I'll be catching the midnight showing in a few hours.
Later Folks!
Jay has so much star power here in China and most of Asia that I'm afraid to go to a screening...on second thought there would be lots of girls...hmmm.
Girls, Green Hornet, and 3D! Looks like i"m going to the movies!
More in depth review later... just a quickie for now.
For those who have an issue with Rogen and think he is everything wrong with the movie since they heard he was involved --- do yourself a favor and don't bother seeing it. Rogen is Rogen. While I don't think he played a total idiot, they did play him a bit worse off then I had hoped. Does he ruin the Green Hornet as a character? No. I've seen worse, but I did roll my eyes more than I liked. Would another actor have been better? Probably. I think Rogen and Gondry are equally at fault for letting Britt be a bit goofier than he should have been. I like Rogen doing his thing and think he brings a certain innocence and naivety to his roles that is charming and amusing. In this flick he took it a little too far and I think Gondry let it slide which is disappointing. I think Gondry could have reigned it in and it would have been a much better performance. Its like Rogen was in a different movie from everyone else half the time. There are moments in the film were the humor is sly and wry and it plays well, I wish they had followed that style more with Rogen playing Britt evenly.
The movie itself is not bad and fun if you can detach yourself from being a strict GH fan. The story was actually pretty good --- holes of course, but pretty good. I think under another writer or two to polish it, it could have been better. I could have done without a scene or two, or at least have them rewritten. Britt was played for more for laughs than I hoped but you see his good points come out near the end of the movie, its just too little too late. The last 20 minutes of the movie things really came together best. I wish this had happened sooner... much sooner, like 20 minutes into the movie and I would have been much happier with it as a whole.
How Britt was played aside, for the most part, I'd say this movie is faithful to the Green Hornet and the source material. The only thing that annoyed me most as a fan, is how they changed the D.A. Scanlon character. I liked the little winks and nods to fans in the course of the movie. Bruce Lee in Kato's sketch book... The William Tell Overture playing on the phonograph in the back seat of the car... the bandana as the first mask... the headlights casting the spinning green pattern from the tv show on the wall... nice touches.
I was hoping the comedy and action mix would be closer to True Lies, it wasn't. It wasn't Get Smart though either and was somewhere in between. I did enjoy the movie and did think it was fun. Am I disappointed in the movie? Sure, but I wasn't disgusted with it by far.
I'd say 2 1/2 out of 5 is how I would rate it.
Later,
RTT
Thanks, that was very helpful and addressed the relevant points, for me at least.
Loved this comic about the movie: (warning: HUGE!)
Spoiler
(http://comiccritics.com/comics/2011-01-12_cc_145.gif)
Quote from: JeyNyce on January 13, 2011, 01:59:53 PM
So Seth Rogen does stink up the movie, Cameron Diaz does.
That hurts, Cameron Diaz was the main reason I was going to see the movie. :unsure:
Thanks for the honest review, RTT. I'll chalk it up as a remotely-possible Netflix rental in the future.
Just saw this move and I.....love it! I am a fan of the Green Hornet radio drama...which the film makes several nods to. I thought I was in for a disappointment, but the comedy angle is done very very well. I haven't laughed so much watching a superhero movie since Meteor Man.
If you're capable of sitting back and having a good laugh while watching a movie that at least gives honest nods to source material then you'll love this film. You'll also have to be able to laugh at adult jokes of the drunken college boy nature.
I give it a 4.5/5. Heck I could even go 5/5. I had a rip roaring good time.
Quote from: thalaw2 on January 27, 2011, 12:38:51 PM
If you're capable of sitting back and having a good laugh while watching a movie that at least gives honest nods to source material then you'll love this film. You'll also have to be able to laugh at adult jokes of the drunken college boy nature.
You just eliminated several of the posters who posted on this thread, Law.
Maybe so, but in all honesty the laughs I got out of this movie were better than "Something About Mary" and on par with "The Hangover". Comedic timing was awesome! Chemistry between Rogen and Chou was right on point. The scripting really did justice to the source material in several ways...for me the radio show is canon (after all it was the first appearance of GH). Sure it loses the serious nature, but I never got the feeling that it was just too out of the bounds of reality for a superhero flick.
I really hope they make a second movie.
Just got back from watching it. I lied it but I cringed a lot at how douchey Seth rogen can be. Actually I really liked it and Katowice was pretty cool.
So many people were being killed though. I think part of it is self-referential about superhero movies though, even the Edward James olmos character almost broke the fourth wall in that respect.
Did anyone else watch it in 3d? The end credits were amazing