Freedom Reborn

Freedom Force Forums => Hero File Discussion => Topic started by: BentonGrey on April 30, 2010, 02:55:16 PM

Title: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: BentonGrey on April 30, 2010, 02:55:16 PM
Howdy guys, I'm working on updating my version of Thor, rebalancing him to fit into a revised approach to creating herofiles, and I was wondering what y'all's versions of the God of Thunder look like?  How powerful is he?  How tough?  How do you handle his toughness?  In addition to my own I've got USAgents herofile which is, as always, a good place to begin, but I'd like to hear what other conceptions the community has about 'ol Goldilocks.
Title: Re: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: herodad1 on April 30, 2010, 03:36:03 PM
as far as strength goes i make him a ten! to scale; thor,hulk,superman,hercules,capt.marvel, are 10's. wonderman,silver surfer,wonderwoman are 9's. the thing,submariner,martian manhunter,are 8's.she-hulk,sasquatch,colossus,vision,ironman are 7's and so forth.
Title: Re: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: AfghanAnt on April 30, 2010, 05:09:58 PM
Thor is not as strong as the Hulk or Superman. He only holds his own with the Hulk because he isn't just a tank. As for Superman, during the JLA/Avengers crossover Superman took Thor down (twice I believe). I've always thought of Thor on the same level as Wonder Woman and Orion's strength class. Vastly strong but his tactical skills and weapons are what distinguish him.  His rogues include Mongoose, Quicksand, and Absorbing Man. None of these characters have inherent super strength but they all have caused him significant damage and even near death in some cases.

------------------------------------------------------------
Hero File: Thor
------------------------------------------------------------
Spoiler

Info:
     File Type:    FFv3R
     Mesh:         library\characters\Thor_Modern\character.nif
     Skin:         standard
     Material:     Flesh
     Weight:       670  lbs (he is vastly heavier than he appears)
     AI:           CZeroCost
     Voice:       

Stats:
     Strength:     8    Incredibly Strong
     Speed:        4    Fast
     Agility:      5    Very Agile
     Endurance:    7    Extraordinarily Hardy
     Energy:       8    Incredibly Powerful

Attributes:
     Weather Control (God of Thunder)               
     Glider (Despite what people think Thor can not fly)                       
     Combat Skill (Expert)    (He has thousands of years of battle experience)     
     Physical Resistance           (Thor is not invulnerable, his skin and bone are denser than a humans. Normal energy attacks do hurt him.)
     Grim Resolve                  (Thor has been known for his determination and has battled until his dying breath)

Powers:
     mjolnir's might (Melee):
             DamageType:          Crushing
             Magnitude:           High
             Energy Point Cost:   None
             Stun:                Low
             Knockback:           High
             Swiftness:           Normal
             Arc:                 No Arc
             Level:               2
             Animation Name:      melee                         
             Attached FX Name:    law_judgement                 

     hurl mjolnir (Ranged - Projectile):
             DamageType:          Crushing
             Magnitude:           High
             Energy Point Cost:   Trace
             Stun:                Medium
             Knockback:           Extreme
             Velocity:            Very Fast
             Radius:              No Arc
             Range:               Long
             Accuracy:            High
             Level:               2
             Animation Name:      ranged                       
             Attached FX Name:    mjolnir                       

     odin's scion (Melee):
             DamageType:          Crushing
             Magnitude:           Medium
             Energy Point Cost:   Minor
             Stun:                Medium
             Knockback:           None
             Swiftness:           Slow
             Arc:                 90 Degrees
             Level:               2
             Animation Name:      melee_2                       
             Attached FX Name:    bullet_chainedpunches         

     lightning storm (Area):
             DamageType:          Electrical
             Magnitude:           Extreme
             Energy Point Cost:   Very Low
             Stun:                Extreme
             Knockback:           None
             Radius:              360 Degrees
             Level:               2
             Animation Name:      area                         
             Attached FX Name:    generic_elect_explosion_large

     northern winds (Area):
             DamageType:          Cold
             Magnitude:           High
             Energy Point Cost:   Very Low
             Stun:                None
             Knockback:           Extreme
             Radius:              360 Degrees
             Level:               2
             Animation Name:      area                         
             Attached FX Name:    storm_hurricane               

     lightning strike (Direct):
             DamageType:          Electrical
             Magnitude:           Medium
             Energy Point Cost:   Very Low
             Stun:                Extreme
             Knockback:           None
             Range:               Medium
             Level:               2
             Animation Name:      area                         
             Attached FX Name:    lightning_strike             

     earth shaker (Ranged - Explosive Projectile):
             DamageType:          Crushing
             Magnitude:           Very High
             Energy Point Cost:   Low
             Stun:                Medium
             Knockback:           High
             Velocity:            Slow
             Radius:              90 Degrees
             Range:               Short
             Accuracy:           
             Level:               2
             Animation Name:      area_3_a                     
             Attached FX Name:    avalanche_tremors             
             Power Flags:         Ground Targets Only
                                  Proximity

     mjolnir's might (Passive Defense):
             Block Type:         
             Success Rating:      Almost Always
             Level:               2
             Animation Name:      active_defense               
             Attached FX Name:    sky_king_bulletproof         
             Damage Blocked:      Crushing
                                  Piercing
             Attacks Blocked:     Ranged

------------------------------------------------------------
generated by EZHERO
------------------------------------------------------------

Earth Shaker is a talent he has recently displayed. Thor has claimed to always have this ability because he is the son of Erda/Gaia.

Mjolnir's Might is Thor spinning his his hammer to deflect bullets. Similar to Wonder Woman and her bracelets, Thor blocks sharp projectiles being directed at him because (again) he's not invulnerable.
Title: Re: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: BentonGrey on April 30, 2010, 05:49:28 PM
Thanks for the responses guys!  AA, that is very interesting.  You've given me quite a lot to think about there.  Thor is one of the characters that I've really varied on, in terms of durability.  Really durable characters has always been something that I've ditherd on in FF, but the way I handled invulnerability in the DCUG finally, I felt, got close to being workable.  I used a combination of damage resistance (only take half damage) and lower invulnerability levels.  For Thor though, I'd agree that such a combo wouldn't be accurate.  Unlike Superman, he doesn't just let bullets bounce of his chest, he actively blocks them.  Still, I think that stone material type might be more applicable, since he has been shown to be pretty tough across the board (not invulnerable, but tough).  I'm going to have to keep thinking about this.
Title: Re: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: herodad1 on May 01, 2010, 12:14:53 AM
i base my strengths by the marvel universe handbook.with the way the game is with strength (1-10) i try to match up their strengths with the game the best i can.hulk and thor are 100 ton class so i give them game strengths of 10. wonderman is 95 ton class so he gets game strength of 9.the thing is 85 ton class so he gets an 8.where their differences are in game is their passive defenses.i give superman 1 level up from thor but they're both 10 strength.supes is tougher resistance wise than thor. in the crossover supes beat thor once.aquaman made a comment to thor about it and thor said yes he did but the next time things would be different because now he knows what to expect.found his mettle! to each his own when it comes to powering up their characters.
Title: Re: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: USAgent on May 01, 2010, 05:08:33 AM
One attack that Thor did quite often in the 80's and 90's was a energy blast straight out of his hammer. Not a lightning blast but a energy blast called "unfettered might" which does alot of damage which also hurts him if he isn't wearing his special braclets. 
I left it out of my hero file because I didn't like the idea of Thor blasting away with his hammer.
Title: Re: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: Kenn on May 01, 2010, 07:13:38 AM
My Thor has...

my Marvel god package (STR+10 [yes, I've removed the FFX safeties that cap STR at 10],ffqresilient,toughguy2,invulnerable,invulnerable0,solarstores,lesserregeneration,shakeitoff,grimresolve,fearless,unbeliever)
blitzkrieg
crackshot
flier
charged

STR 9  (effectively 19)
SPD 8
AGL 5
END 9
ENG 7

A powerful single shot hammer Melee strike
A multi-hit Melee shot that can hit several targets in a 90-degree arc
A powerful thrown hammer Projectile attack (does energy damage)
A thunderstorm Area attack
And Unfettered Might, which is just 300%-er for me
Title: Re: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: BentonGrey on May 09, 2010, 05:27:24 AM
Quote from: herodad1 on May 01, 2010, 12:14:53 AM
i base my strengths by the marvel universe handbook.with the way the game is with strength (1-10) i try to match up their strengths with the game the best i can.hulk and thor are 100 ton class so i give them game strengths of 10. wonderman is 95 ton class so he gets game strength of 9.the thing is 85 ton class so he gets an 8.where their differences are in game is their passive defenses.i give superman 1 level up from thor but they're both 10 strength.supes is tougher resistance wise than thor. in the crossover supes beat thor once.aquaman made a comment to thor about it and thor said yes he did but the next time things would be different because now he knows what to expect.found his mettle! to each his own when it comes to powering up their characters.

Yeah, I try to stick semi close to the RPG stats, but the FF engine isn't a perfect fit for it.  I'm really trying to make the characters fit the engine these days, rather than the other way around.  I feel like that makes them more fun to play.  It is, of course, all subjective.

Quote from: USAgent on May 01, 2010, 05:08:33 AM
One attack that Thor did quite often in the 80's and 90's was a energy blast straight out of his hammer. Not a lightning blast but a energy blast called "unfettered might" which does alot of damage which also hurts him if he isn't wearing his special braclets.  
I left it out of my hero file because I didn't like the idea of Thor blasting away with his hammer.

Yeah, I liked the idea of using 300% to represent "Unfettered Might."  I don't know who's hf's I got it from, but I liked it.  Thor can do some REALLY heavy damage if he sets himself up right, which works for the character.

Geez, Kenn.  I don't know how you manage characters like that, who have nearly 20 in strength.  Don't they do, like 200 damage a hit?
Title: Re: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: hoss20 on May 09, 2010, 08:23:23 AM
For what it's worth, here's my take:
Spoiler
 
Material: Concrete

Stats:
    Strength:     8  
    Speed:        4    
    Agility:        4    
    Endurance:  8    
    Energy:       8    

Attributes:
    invulnerable 5
    level headed
    temperature control
    strange visitor
    thor (flier, weathercontrol, ffactivedefense50)

Powers:
    punch (Melee):
      Level:              1
      Damage Type:        Crushing
      Magnitude:          Very High
      EP Cost:            Low
      Stun:               Medium
      Knockback:          High
      Swiftness:          Normal
      Arc:                No Arc
      
   grapple (Melee):
      Level:              1
      Damage Type:        Energy Surge (swap)
      Magnitude:          None (because it's based on Strength value)
      EP Cost:            None (because it's based on opponent's Strength value)
      Stun:               None
      Knockback:          None
      Swiftness:          Normal
      Arc:                No Arc
      
   flying punch (Projectile):
      Level:              5
      Damage Type:        Crushing
      Magnitude:          Extreme
      EP Cost:            Low
      Stun:               Medium
      Knockback:          High
      Velocity:           Fast
      Radius:             None
      Range:              Short
      Accuracy:           Low
      
   mjolnir throw (Projectile):
      Level:              4
      Damage Type:        Crushing
      Magnitude:          Very High
      EP Cost:            Low
      Stun:               Low
      Knockback:          High
      Velocity:           Fast
      Radius:             Small
      Range:              Long
      Accuracy:           High            

   mjolnir strike (Melee):
      Level:              3
      Damage Type:        Crushing
      Magnitude:          Very High
      EP Cost:            Low
      Stun:               Medium
      Knockback:          High
      Swiftness:          Fast
      Arc:                No Arc  

      
  • Up Knockback
          
       ground shatter (Area):
          Level:              2
          Damage Type:        Crushing
          Magnitude:          Medium
          EP Cost:            Low
          Stun:               Medium
          Knockback:          Extreme
          Radius:             Large

       mjolnir blast (Beam):
          Level:              4
          Damage Type:        Energy
          Magnitude:          Very High
          EP Cost:            Low
          Stun:               Medium
          Knockback:          Medium
          Velocity:           Fast
          Range:              Long
          Accuracy:           Medium
          
       lightning strike (Direct):
          Level:              4
          Damage Type:        Electrical
          Magnitude:          Very High
          EP Cost:            Low
          Stun:               High
          Knockback:          Medium
          Range:              Long

                resistance to heat,cold,radiation (Passive Defense):
          Level:              1
          Block Type:         Normal
          Success Rating:     Occasional
          Attacks Blocked:
             
  • Melee
             
  • Ranged
             
  • Area
             
  • Direct
          Damage Blocked:
             [ ] Mental
             [ ] Mystical
             [ ] Acid
             
  • Radiation
             [ ] Crushing
             [ ] Piercing
             [ ] Energy
             [ ] Electrical
             
  • Cold
             
  • Fire

          
  • Inactive

       invulnerability (Passive Defense):
          Level:              3 (15%)
          Block Type:         Normal
          Success Rating:     Rare
          Attacks Blocked:
             
  • Melee
             
  • Ranged
             
  • Area
             
  • Direct
          Damage Blocked:
             [ ] Mental
             [ ] Mystical
             
  • Acid
             [ ] Radiation
             
  • Crushing
             
  • Piercing
             
  • Energy
             
  • Electrical
             [ ] Cold
             [ ] Fire

          
  • Inactive
I have the ranged attacks at a higher level to try to equate them with melee damage (I do this with all my hero files). I did base the stats off of the RPG as well. I also used TaskmasterX's conversion. I did a little personal tweaking, as I've been collecting Thor for decades.
  There are characters stronger than Thor (or Superman, for that matter), so I save the 10 Strengths for those cosmic elites.
  I didn't limit Thor's twirling Mjolnir (FFActive Defense) to just projectiles. Over the years, he has blocked/absorbed plenty of energy blasts, as well.
  I gave him the energy blast from Mjolnir also, but I believe the true "unfettered might" can only be used while wearing his belt of strength (with protection from his gauntlets). He wore these items as a youth before he was strong enough to wield Mjolnir. He has only worn these items a handful of times during his comic run.
  Like you, Benton, I've scaled down my invulnerability over the years and used the concrete material type more often to add resistance instead. I may need to scale him down now that he no longer has the Odin-Power, but in comparison my Hulk file has Concrete material type, Invulnerable 10, and a passive defense of 20%. Superman is the same with a 25% passive defense. I also don't know what protection Thor's current garb offers. It's unique looking and I guess it most closely resembles chain mail. Either way, it's certainly more sturdy than his traditional get up.
  Wow, it's really late/early and I was going to continue, but I think I'm starting to ramble. Anyway, I hope this input in some way helps and I'm sorry I went on so long.
Title: Re: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: Kenn on May 10, 2010, 04:34:14 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on May 09, 2010, 05:27:24 AM
Geez, Kenn.  I don't know how you manage characters like that, who have nearly 20 in strength.  Don't they do, like 200 damage a hit?

Between 100-150 the way his big attack is structured, against objects defined as "flesh".  Actually, it isn't a problem.  It means only very powerful characters or very tough objects can stand up to being struck by him.  Which,when you're talking about Thor, Superman, the Hulk, Captain Marvel, etc., is closer to how I expect them to be.   
Title: Re: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: apfarmakis on May 10, 2010, 07:55:10 AM
Quote from: Kenn on May 01, 2010, 07:13:38 AM
My Thor has...

my Marvel god package (STR+10 [yes, I've removed the FFX safeties that cap STR at 10]

Haven't fiddled with ffx.py in ages Kenn. How do you remove the safety cap again?
Title: Re: The Mighty Goldilocks
Post by: Kenn on May 10, 2010, 02:37:02 PM
Quote from: apfarmakis on May 10, 2010, 07:55:10 AM
Haven't fiddled with ffx.py in ages Kenn. How do you remove the safety cap again?

In the FFX.PY find def initheavylifter(char,update=0):.  A few lines down it will read
        if str>9:
            str=9


Those two lines can be commented out (place # signs in front of them).  Or just removed.

Then find def FFX_SetStrength(char,value,lifting=1): and do the same.

Heavylifter can be assigned multiple times through the FFX Multi.  I also duplicated the code for an attribute called superstrength that adds 5 instead of 3.