I dislike Hal Jordan and for the longest time (since he was brought back in Green Lantern: Rebirth) I have been watching as he is slowly brought back into the DC Universe mainstream at the disservice of other characters.
Let me explain.
Now I understand for those who grew up during the Silver Age of comics (I'm 22) that Hal Jordan is a character near and dear to their hearts. At least those who were fans of his growing up. But I dislike how DC is pandering to the silver age crowd and basically gives the middle finger to my and younger generations. We aren't allowed to have our own characters? Every lantern is marginalized compared to Jordan and already he is being treated like the greatest thing to every walk the earth. He isn't even that three dimensional (especially compared to other Lanterns like Kyle and John). Most of the time he comes off as some sort of wish fulfillment character. "Super cool test pilot by day, intergalactic police officer by night". This is where the 'at the disadvantage of other characters' bit comes in. Apparently Hal "I'm freaking" Jordan which is my cleaning up a meme that is used jokingly (referencing Frank Miller's "I'm the ***** Batman" bit) is not only the coolest guy in the world and role model to millions of boys everywhere. But he makes all the girls swoon, cause in Justice League: Cry for Justice #2 it was revealed that Hal "I'm freaking" Jordan had a threesome with Huntress and Lady Blackhawk. Not only that but he had a one night stand with Black Canary (don't know when but the way it came off it was while her and Ollie were dating). So in the course of one brief conversation he pretty much turned a good portion of the Birds of Prey cast into nothing more than conquests to notch his belt with.
Hal Jordan should be in jail or barring that a mental asylum of some sorts. He wiped out a city full of people, thousands are dead by his hand. Even if you buy the whole parallax is an evil energy that made him do it, by any other standard he would still be found guilty of some form of mass manslaughter. Being criminally insane doesn't mean you get off the crime completely it just changes your sentence. The only person who called him out on this was Batman and Jordan punched him in the face. Obviously this was meant to serve as an example for anyone else who wanted to question the morality of Jordan walking free and clear without nary a punishment. Also it was a means of "punking" Batman to try and convince the rest of the audience that Hal Jordan is indeed a hardcase. I'm also debating on whether it was some obscure reference to the time Batman punched out Gardner in an old JLA book. Either way the message is sent loud and clear.
Things that are probably going to happen:
Barry comes back and forces Wally into sidestick status again.
Ted comes back and Jamie gets forgotten/written off/killed or anything else involving no longer existing.
Aquaman comes back and everyone shrugs and goes back to what they were doing before. (This one is for you Benton ;))
Quote from: Ajax on September 17, 2009, 12:56:08 AM
Aquaman comes back and everyone shrugs and goes back to what they were doing before.
who? :mellow:
Hal slept with his best friend's girl? That just doesn't sound right. Unless it was Hal Jordan of Earth-(insert number here) or whatever confusing thing DC can come up with. But shagging the Birds of Prey, all at once? Sounds about right. He can fly a jet and take home any girl from the bar. I think that's it. I wonder if he can do both at once.
I posted this a long time ago, but it summarizes my feelings of Hal for the most part.
(http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/20050907cardboard.gif)
Uh, Ajax, I hate to tell you this, but Barry has been back for a while now. Wally apparently isn't a superhero right now, and Impulse (who was brought back to life somehow) is Kid Flash again.
I don't like Hal that much, and I grew up with him as Green Lantern (I'll be 38 and a half next month). I've always felt he didn't have a strong enough personality and may have immense willpower but doesn't have much of an imagination (I got sick to death of the boxing glove thing way fast). If you asked me to list my 5 favorite Green Lanterns, Hal would be 5th....if you only counted living GLs, that is.
The problem is not only did DC do a half-assed job with Hal going nuts and eventually dying, they did an even more half-assed way of "fixing" him. I don't like the fact that it more or less absolved Hal of any wrongdoing whatsoever - and even though he does feel guilt and some people haven't forgiven him, I still think that stinks. It was a total cop out.
Frankly, I think Hal actually showed more personality when he was the host for the Spectre than he had at any other time, and I haven't read much of anything with him in it since he became a Green Lantern again.
I think its a shame DC kept Barry dead as long as they did, and brought Hal back too soon - Hal should have stayed dead another 5 years at least.
(Remember HEAT? I wanted to form an anti-HEAT group called KHLAD (Keep Hal's Lame *censored* Dead)
Quote from: GhostMachine on September 17, 2009, 01:26:14 AM
Wally apparently isn't a superhero right now
Wha? Wally's still the Flash. There's just 3 of them now.
I also dislike Hal Jordan. There are some legitament reasons I could detail but honestly alot of it is irrational and has to do with the whole Kyle vs Hal debate.
I like Hal fine but I see him more as a "past" green lantern then a current one, Kind of like Alan Scott.
Quote from: Ajax on September 17, 2009, 12:56:08 AM
But he makes all the girls swoon, cause in Justice League: Cry for Justice #2 it was revealed that Hal "I'm freaking" Jordan had a threesome with Huntress and Lady Blackhawk. Not only that but he had a one night stand with Black Canary (don't know when but the way it came off it was while her and Ollie were dating). So in the course of one brief conversation he pretty much turned a good portion of the Birds of Prey cast into nothing more than conquests to notch his belt with.
Womanizing seems to be par for the course of being a GL. Ive never been much of a GL fan because for so many years the ring seemed underpowered to me. Writing was never very consistent about it from one book to another and too many things defied logic no matter how they were explained. My fav. GL is Alan.
This is why I back Guy Gardner as #1 GL. He's a jerk-bag, but he'll tell you he's a jerk-bag out front.
Yeah, Hal Jordan sucks. That comic is awesome murs!
You know, there was a reason why Timm had John Stewart be the GL of the DCAU...
Honestly, I concur with what everyone else seems to be saying, and that comic sums up my thoughts about Hal. He really is like cardboard. He may have a great deal of will, but that's about it. There are other GL's that I like plenty more, with Alan being my personal favorite. The only reason that Hal stayed around so long, and then was brought back after being killed off, is that while he is not the first GL, he is the one that made the Green Lanterns a central part of the DCU, and there's the fact that a bunch of people grew up with him, and thus consider him THE Green Lantern. Some people can't get that just because you started it all doesn't mean you're still numero-uno.
I am one of those silver age fans, Jordan was the GL I first knew (and even the GL of the Super Friends), and quite frankly, I find him boring . The man has nothing like a good characterization. Like others said on this tread, he is just "Wow! I'm a jet pilot, and can get any woman, I'm great!"
IMHO Alan Scott is better (he has tradition, the magic background, his role as stern father figure to younger heroes, etc). Kyle Rayner is better (good characterization), John Stewart is better (interesting background), etc, etc...
I like Barry a lot, but can't understand why he was resurrected when Wally had become a viable character.
But, Geoff Johns loves Hal and Barry, and what Johns wants, Johns gets...
I'm under 30, but I consider myself as having grown up with Hal (super friends and super powers toys). I think he's an iconic GL, but yeah, his characterization is really flat.
Darwyn Cooke's The New Frontier did a lot to justify his importance for me, so I really don't mind seeing an "old-guard" Big 7 JLA, with Hal and Barry.
However I like to think of GL Corps stories with the other guys, Guy being my fave.
The trouble with the generations and legacy characters in DC is that they don't always line up exactly. It's hard to truly replace the Big 7, you'll be filling slots from mixed generations, and established relationships between characters aren't really present.
For example, here's a rough breakdown of characters in different "generations"
2nd Generation: Dick, Donna, Roy, Wally, Garth - Maybe Jon Stewart and Guy Gardner
3rd Generation: Connor Hawke, Kyle Rayner,
4th Generation: Tim Drake, Connor Kent, Bart Allen, Cassie Sandsmark, Mia Harper? (female Speedy)
5th Generation: Jamie Reyes, Kara Jor-el (i think the current Supergirl), Miss Martian...soon to include Damian Wayne
I don't have much interest in DC's current output, but I will admit I am enjoying watching the Kyle fans throw conniption fits. The people who used to tell me to "get over it" when I complained about the poor treatment of Hal start singing a different tune when it's their favorite character getting kicked to the curb. :P
Yeah, JKC, the Kyle crowd has some misty-eyed memories of there being only one Green Lantern but I know that there has only ever been and will only ever be One TRUE Green Lantern, Guy Gardner.
Hal was in his hey day when I was growing up and for the longest time, he was the only Green Lantern I knew about.
And I never liked him.
I didn't really start getting into Green Lanterns until Kyle's tenure during Morrison's JLA and other series at the time. He's still my favorite, followed very closely by Alan Scott. I also rank John Stewart pretty high (though he wasn't in a lot of books during my heavy comic reading days), and I like Guy Gardner quite a bit (what ever happened to his bar?)... but I still can't get myself to like Hal.
In a way he reminds me of Tom Cruise: he's this guy who's got a lot going for him, and yet there's something about him you just can't stand.
Hm.. could it be that Hal's actually a scientologist?
Nah.
Quote from: Podmark on September 17, 2009, 02:25:38 AM
Quote from: GhostMachine on September 17, 2009, 01:26:14 AM
Wally apparently isn't a superhero right now
Wha? Wally's still the Flash. There's just 3 of them now.
I also dislike Hal Jordan. There are some legitament reasons I could detail but honestly alot of it is irrational and has to do with the whole Kyle vs Hal debate.
Glad to hear Wally's still around he's MY Flash. Both Barry and Hal really never spoke to me. I never really liked Kyle but it wasn't because I missed Hal. I much prefer Jon or even Guy ( at least he's got personality). Alan Scott is pretty cool also but he's kind of not in the mainstream lantern thing.
Quote from: Glitch Girl on September 17, 2009, 04:44:17 PM
Hal was in his hey day when I was growing up and for the longest time, he was the only Green Lantern I knew about.
And I never liked him.
I didn't really start getting into Green Lanterns until Kyle's tenure during Morrison's JLA and other series at the time. He's still my favorite, followed very closely by Alan Scott. I also rank John Stewart pretty high (though he wasn't in a lot of books during my heavy comic reading days), and I like Guy Gardner quite a bit (what ever happened to his bar?)... but I still can't get myself to like Hal.
In a way he reminds me of Tom Cruise: he's this guy who's got a lot going for him, and yet there's something about him you just can't stand.
Hm.. could it be that Hal's actually a scientologist?
Nah.
You know, Being a space policeman like Hal is maybe he has fought Xenu before.
Quote from: JKCarrier on September 17, 2009, 02:40:27 PM
I don't have much interest in DC's current output, but I will admit I am enjoying watching the Kyle fans throw conniption fits. The people who used to tell me to "get over it" when I complained about the poor treatment of Hal start singing a different tune when it's their favorite character getting kicked to the curb. :P
Oh, don't think everyone complaining here is a Kyle Rayner fan - I hate that guy too. Give me Jon Stewart or Guy Gardner any day.
I am not a current comic book buyer; so, it doesn't matter who the GL is. I did read comics back in the 70's as a kid. I always liked the concept of Green Lantern, but it seemed that DC was never able to make it work consistently. His powers were interesting, but he had one of the lamest weaknesses, the color yellow. He was more interesting as a member of the JLA than he was in his comic book, and he didn't have that many interesting villains. He had the personality of a wet dish rag, always having to deal with a stupid inferiority complex. The only thing the made GL truly interesting was the GL Corps and an interesting cosmology, but Hal doesn't need to be the lead ringslinger to keep the best. For nostalgia reasons, I would like to see Hal kept around and in uniform. Perhaps, as a mentor for a younger and less angst ridden hero. I hate excessive angst.
Gaaaaaaah! My worst fears were realized. Screw you DC. >.<
Spoiler
They killed Kyle Rayner! :banghead: My hate for Hal Jordan grows even greater since all of this from the GL Reborn to Sinestro Wars, to this have been designed to bring Jordan back as GL. Obviously Kyle Rayner threatened that plan and has now been offed. Boo and Hiss.
Quote from: Ajax on November 14, 2009, 04:00:05 AM
Gaaaaaaah! My worst fears were realized. Screw you DC. >.<
Spoiler
They killed Kyle Rayner! :banghead: My hate for Hal Jordan grows even greater since all of this from the GL Reborn to Sinestro Wars, to this have been designed to bring Jordan back as GL. Obviously Kyle Rayner threatened that plan and has now been offed. Boo and Hiss.
Knowing how comics work these days, he'll probably be back in the next 1-3 years. ;)
Hal was at one stage the "new" GL, the Reboot, the replacement.
But with that reboot we got a whole new paradigm for the idea, that he was "a" green lantern, not "the" green lantern.
For a long time his comics, and the JLA he was in, sold well. His character was a little bland, as were all of DCs heroes at that time. We were introduced to many other GLs in that time.
Then comics started to run out of ideas and someone thought it would be good to have Hal be a crazy mass murderer and Barry be a crazy murderer, and then both be dead and replaced, and so forth.
That was the problem, right there. They should have just retired them, but they didn't, so now to use those characters requires retcons and backflips and what have you.
Personally, I like what Johns has done in bringing back both Hal and Barry, and re-jigging both to be true to their original appearances, but also polished up a bit to appeal to new and old fans.
And, if you actually think about it, there is kind of a reason why Hal is the pre-eminent earth GL; he was chosen. Not Guy, not Kyle, not John. They were all secondary choices. I know the stuff about Hal being closer to Abin Sur than the others, and being chosen by distance, and I don't buy it. Those rings will fly to a different solar system to find the right/best candidate, so a few thousand miles will not deter them. Therefore, Hal is the best GL on earth. Full stop. Period. Comma. No, not comma, sorry.
Barry Allen is back. Nobody stays dead in comics.
I wouldn't be suprised if he showed up in Blackest Night.
Quote from: thanoson on November 14, 2009, 04:52:40 PM
I wouldn't be suprised if he showed up in Blackest Night.
You mean Barry Allen? Ummm... he's been in pretty much every issue since BN began.
Personally, I'm kind of middle ground as far as Hal V. Kyle goes... I like Kyle, I wish they hadn't relegated him to a subordinate role (At least give him his own book) followed by doing you-know-what to him, but I also like what's being done with Hal and, more importantly, his Villains... Sinestro, Black Hand, etc. I'm sorry, but Kyle's Rogues really weren't memorable at all.
ahh, give me kilowag any day! :lol:
You mean Barry Allen? Ummm... he's been in pretty much every issue since BN began.
Personally, I'm kind of middle ground as far as Hal V. Kyle goes... I like Kyle, I wish they hadn't relegated him to a subordinate role (At least give him his own book) followed by doing you-know-what to him, but I also like what's being done with Hal and, more importantly, his Villains... Sinestro, Black Hand, etc. I'm sorry, but Kyle's Rogues really weren't memorable at all.
[/quote]
No, I meant the newest dead Guy.
Ah, him. Well, since he died in BN surrounded by Black rings, that wouldn't surprise me.
No, Guy's not dead. He's going to be a red lantern.
Quote from: Glitch Girl on September 17, 2009, 04:44:17 PM
In a way he reminds me of Tom Cruise: he's this guy who's got a lot going for him, and yet there's something about him you just can't stand.
That is an awesome way to sum up Hal. Love it! :D
If Tom Cruise does well he'll get a begrudging back-handed complement off me - eg "Tom Cruise failed to spoil Minority Report". Hal's kind of the same - he fails to spoil comics in which he appears.
I'd love to see Pete Millligan take a crack at him. If anyone could mine some gold from Hal's cocky macho personality, it's him. He's got a great line in deflating characters without going too far - Wolverine in "Wolverine and Doop", Doc Strange in the Dead Girl mini-series, Constantine in the current Hellblazer, they've all had their authority subtly undermined without descending into parody.
Re-reading the Showcase Presents reprints (yeah, guys, I'm that old), hal was poorly written from the beginning. He was a male chauvinist pig, somewhat narrow minded, and a bit dense. In his "good" monents, we was very good indeed, and that is the Hal most people remember. Tne they deciced to make him "human", and through the Emerald Dawn stuff and after, Hal didn't strike me as someone with enough willpower to run a flashlight, much less a power ring (undiagnosed ADHD?). Thing was, in other comics, Hal was The Grand Old Man of the GLs. He was competent, resourceful, courageous, and had enough willpower to run a star (Mark Waid may have been the writer, but he wasn't the only one).
They messed with Hal and made him a mass murderer so that he would never never never never never never ever be able to be Green Lantern again, because they were planning to have only one GL: Kyle. No insult to Kyle (who I like), but there were a lot of people who did not like that arrangement (sort of "Hey, why don't we have him act totally out of character so we can kill him off and no one will complain". Yeah, right...). Me, I would have made Hal The Guardian of the Universe (or one of them), and we could have still had Kyle as GL (wouldn't you just love to see an interplanetery Guardians with Killowog and G'nort in the group).
Ajax, I have to respectfully dissagree with you about DC thumbing their nose at modern readers. If you want to feel like you are being ignored by the powers that be and that your childhood is being either written out of continuity or outright raped, be one of us older fans. What I think is happeneing is that someone comes up with an idea ("Hey, let's de-construct the super-hero like they did in Watchmen"), and when it doesn't work out like they think it should (see The Scarlet Spider), the powers that be return to something that "works". Silver Age comics sold better than comics today (the 10-12 cent price has nothing to do with it ;)), so they often use ideas from them. It's easier than trying to come up with GOOD new ideas that will really work.
My favorite Green Lantern was Tomar-Re He is the only GL action figure I ever bought (Hal/Specter was given to me).