as most of you know, Watchmen came out on DVD this week. I was just wondering if anyone has checked out the directors cut dvd and how much it effects the movie. I was pretty disappointed overall with the film, but still wanted to check it out again on DVD, especially with the half an hour or so of extra footage. Sometimes the directors cut of a movie can vastly improve a movie overall, or merely just add more run time.
Also, I was wondering if that Tales of the Black Freighter dvd was worth checking out as well. Has anyone seen this?
also, I know there's another thread all about the Watchmen film, but there was so much going on it I decided to make a new thread about the dvds. Hope that's ok.
I have not picked up the DVD yet. I did hear from someone that there would be another version coming out around the holidays. The next version may have parts of the Black Freighter cut in. If that's the case I'll probably wait for that package.
The Director's Cut of the movie is MUCH better. There are numerous additions to scenes that let them flow together better, and the film lingers in spots more so you don't feel rushed as was the case with the theatrical cut. There are some pretty awesome new scenes, but most of the additional runtime is devoted to lengthening preexisting scenes like the Crimebusters meeting, the Mars discussion, and the early part of the movie. Laurie's character is greatly improved upon this time around, too, seeing as how she got a good chunk of her character development cut from the original release. Oh, plus all of the Hollis Mason related stuff is back in.
I'd watch it again on DVD. It was enough that I noticed what was new, and I felt I enjoyed it more.
I generally enjoyed it, too. Not really Earth-shattering and a bit of it was just extra gore, which I could do without (Veidt's assistant's fingers, etc.). But, most was extra detail that actually flowed well and made some of the plot seem more coherent. Even the stuff that wasn't strictly necessary to understand the main story - like Rorschach's interview with the prison psychologist and the Hollis Mason scenes - were nice bonuses for fans of the graphic novel. Of course, the prison psychologist scenes were still not as complete as many will have wanted, considering that was a large role in the book. I'm not sure there would have been any way to really do that character justice.
FWIW, I thought the BD special feature cut with director walk-ons was a little weak. Part of it was that (for me at least) the PIP audio track was a little out of sync, but it mostly was just a variation on normal director/actor/etc. commentary tracks that somehow should have been more impressive than it was.
But, the special features on the history of the Watchmen graphic novel and the background piece on vigilantes were interesting
The movie is not for everyone, but I flat out loved it. The Director's Cut definitely makes it feel more complete as a story and is the better version. The Hollis Mason sequence is stand out but I was also very satisfied by the little bits here and there. Rorschach and Laurie's exchange on the roof of the prison for example goes a long way to making them feel like they all have a real history together. However, for anyone with a negative or "meh" opinion of the theatrical cut, I'm not sure the additions will do much to change how they feel.
As for the Black Freighter, it's worth watching if you're curious. I don't know that it does anything for anyone not familiar with it's significance though. I understand that Snyder shot a lot of footage with the news seller and the comicbook reader (the Bernies), so it will interesting to see how he integrates the Freighter stuff into the main film.
So, just to be sure: if I absolutely loved the movie and if i'm an hardcore fan of the comic book it's based upon, should I buy this "director's cut "version or wait for the hollydays version?
meaning: will the "black freighter" version have all the bonuses of the director's cut, or will i have to buy both of them?
It seems like a hardcore fan would want to wait for the "ultimate collector's edition". It's supposed to have 5 discs, including the director's cut with the Tales of the Black Freighter integrated. It will also have the Hollis Mason Under the Hood special and the "motion comics" version of the graphic novel. I'm not sure there is any other way to get the Under the Hood special.
I have no idea what that set will cost...
Under the Hood is a special feature on the Black Freighter DVD.
Good to know. I haven't gotten TotBF yet.
When does the one with the squid come out?
i may be wrong, but i think snyder specifically said that no alternate ending were shot. so, no squid i assume.
edit: thanks for the info stumpy by the way; i guess i'll wait for the "ultimate collector" edition then
I already have the motion comic & ToTBF, so I'll just get this copy and call it a night
i bought it and thought the extras should have been in the theatrical release.i really liked the watchmen movie.makes me want a jsa movie.
well, after some debating, I went ahead and picked up the directors cut at Target. I had a 10 dollar gift card, so I got a good price on it. Then I saw the Black Freighter dvd for 5 dollars and couldn't refuse. I haven't had a chance to watch either yet, but I plan to sometime this weekend. However, I did open the dvd and saw an ad with a coupon for $10 off the ultimate Watchmen edition coming out around Christmas, and yeah, it's a 5 disc version with loads of extra features, the motion comic, black freighter, etc etc. I doubt I'll be picking that up though.
I just watched the Hollis Mason scene ... excellently done, but so sad! :(
Finally got a chance to check out the directors cut, and I gotta say the subtle changes it makes by adding more scenes does make it a better movie. I enjoyed it much more a second time, and I think I was able to separate the book from the movie a bit more (although it's pretty difficult considering the movie is practically shot for shot scenes from the book, much like the remake of Psycho, but I digress). The Hollis Mason scene was definitely one of the best new scenes.
Speaking of Hollis Mason, before I watched the movie, I watched the "Under the Hood" special feature on the Black Freighter dvd (still have yet to watch BF though). This serves as an excellent opener to the movie and really makes you more familiar with the universe.
I was fairly disappointed after watching this in theaters, but after my second viewing I've forgiven some of the movies more minor short comings. However, there still remains some glaring flaws, four pretty big ones off the top of my head: the random inclusion of Bubastis, the pacing, Richard Nixon, and the rock music. I really liked the music featured in the trailers and wish they would have used that in the film more, but oh well. I'm glad to say I enjoyed it much more the second time around.
I picked it up this weekend, but I havn't had the chance to watch it. I really enjoyed the film and imagine I'll really like the extra scenes as I read the book only a few months before the film came out and thus had the whole thing still fresh in my memory. So I could really appreciate what they kept in (fridge scene still disappointed me though, I thought the comic version was much cooler). Although the Under the Hood feature sounds interesting, I'm actually not interested in the Black Freighter, especially integrated into the film as I found it the part of the book that bogged down my interest in the film more than anything else.
Just rented it and flat out hated it. The pacing was horrible. I didn't like the original graphic novel but I sure didn't think I'd find the movie so bloody boring
I never saw the original cut, but i have to say, the directors cut wasn't too shabby. I do, however realize why the movie bombed in theatres. If i hadn't read the comic, i would never have watched the movie. Loads of spoilers below so beware!
Spoiler
I did feel it was of a cop out to not have the huge alien invasion in the movie(obviously due to lack of budget). And i thought certain things were to over exposed(like Rorschach taking a clever to a guys head, didn't need to show EVERY single wack. And Richard Nixon. Not needed to be shown outside of posters.) and then under exposing other elements(like the specific lack of HURM! :)).
A few things i have a beef with: The MUSIC! It made a controversy in tone the visual tone, at points you could tell that they were trying to make it an ironic sort of a tone, but it didn't work. They needed music more depressing like the song on the trailer. No alien invasion, while i hated the strange explosions framing Dr. Manhattan, however, it does make for a long run of peace for the world(once the world finds out that the aliens are staged it all goes back to normal, so blaming it on Doc M makes some sense). Rorschachs death. Hated it in the book, hated it in the movie. I think it would have been more ironic to see him promise not to tell and then show the newspaper guy pick up the journal.
A few pros: While Night Owl look like an idiot, his original suit would have looked terrible. The origin of Dr. Manhattan. Soooooo well done, without confusing the audience too much. The attempted defile of Sally Jupiter. It made you want to deck the moron in the yellow jumpsuit, and it still never showed any actual defile. Sally Jupiter telling Laurie why she didn't hate Eddie Blake, the one part of the book that was never emotion filled finally got some justice. Hollis mason scene. GENIUS! Showing Hollis in his hayday and fighting with all he's got. Then getting his life ripped away, sad, but fantastically shot. Comic book(meaning panel identical) scenes were fantastic for fans of the book. I also liked the visual look of the cast, despite acting ability shown. And finally, the lack of the Black Freighter. I HATED that part of the book! It was confusing and made me skip over it, making me more confused.
But thats just my oppinion.
Quote from: docdelorean88 on August 12, 2009, 04:42:49 AM
I never saw the original cut, but i have to say, the directors cut wasn't too shabby. I do, however realize why the movie bombed in theatres. If i hadn't read the comic, i would never have watched the movie. Loads of spoilers below so beware!
QuoteI did feel it was of a cop out to not have the huge alien invasion in the movie(obviously due to lack of budget). And i thought certain things were to over exposed(like Rorschach taking a clever to a guys head, didn't need to show EVERY single wack. And Richard Nixon. Not needed to be shown outside of posters.) and then under exposing other elements(like the specific lack of HURM! :)).
A few things i have a beef with: The MUSIC! It made a controversy in tone the visual tone, at points you could tell that they were trying to make it an ironic sort of a tone, but it didn't work. They needed music more depressing like the song on the trailer. No alien invasion, while i hated the strange explosions framing Dr. Manhattan, however, it does make for a long run of peace for the world(once the world finds out that the aliens are staged it all goes back to normal, so blaming it on Doc M makes some sense). Rorschachs death. Hated it in the book, hated it in the movie. I think it would have been more ironic to see him promise not to tell and then show the newspaper guy pick up the journal.
A few pros: While Night Owl look like an idiot, his original suit would have looked terrible. The origin of Dr. Manhattan. Soooooo well done, without confusing the audience too much. The attempted defile of Sally Jupiter. It made you want to deck the moron in the yellow jumpsuit, and it still never showed any actual defile. Sally Jupiter telling Laurie why she didn't hate Eddie Blake, the one part of the book that was never emotion filled finally got some justice. Hollis mason scene. GENIUS! Showing Hollis in his hayday and fighting with all he's got. Then getting his life ripped away, sad, but fantastically shot. Comic book(meaning panel identical) scenes were fantastic for fans of the book. I also liked the visual look of the cast, despite acting ability shown. And finally, the lack of the Black Freighter. I HATED that part of the book! It was confusing and made me skip over it, making me more confused.
But thats just my oppinion.
I loved Rorschach's death in the book. The fact that his journal is read at the end after his death is kind of a way of having him 'live on'. Think Anne Frank. Rorsch' is all about a lack of compromise, so having him live in any way would go against the character. He had to die, put simply.
The fact that Rorschach dies because he can not compromise is one of the most accepted interpretation of the personage. To survive, you need to adapt,to compromise. For the minutemen it was the retirement of Hollis Mason when Doc Manhattan arrived (there was no use for them anymore). The "new" minutemen have to compromise whith their belief to not ruin the peace. The cold war has to stop, we see usa and russia working together to rebuild the damaged world. Only Roscharch didn't want to copromise, or rather couldn't compromise. It's also generalyy noted that the manicheism (not sure that the word in english: the fact that he sees people all good or all bad) of the character is mirrored by his mask:he sees the world in black and white, no gray area. The black freighter critic i can understadn, i had to re-read some pages sometimes 3 times to not get lost when they intricated the narration tooo much. I hope it will be easier to understand in the version that's coming in december (that's december, right?)
Spoiler
I'm fine with Rorschach's death. it made perfect sense in the context of the story, and I liked the way the film conveyed it. Rorschach/Kovac's was deeply mentally ill, and he knew it. At the end he takes off his mask because he wants to face Doc Manhatten (and death) face to face. He yells at him to "do it!" and he's tearing up as he does it. This is a man who knows he's deeply obsessed (and probably was deep in denial most of the time so he could continue his crusade for "justice") and he probably was a miserable man. The way I took it, he wanted to die, and he understood that Manhatten had to kill him, because it was the only way he could silence him. Rorschach was compelled to expose the plan, "never compromise" as he said, but he didn't hold it against Manhatten for killing him. I think it's a kind of inner conflict for Rorschach.
What I didn't like though, was the "NOOOOOOO!" that was sooo bad and really killed the mood.
Also, having seen the Director's Cut since my previous post, I have to agree, the extra Hollis Mason scene was awesome. And very sad as well.
I just effin' love this book and movie. Oh how it rocks my life doubly.
Alright, i do agree with most of you. I knew when i read the comic, and saw the movie why he had to die. I hated that it had to happen, but i understood fully why it did. (At a quick glance it seemed like they were just killing someone just to kill someone) Rorschach never compromises, and to shut up would be to compromise. See, i think they needed that NOOOO in order to keep the friendship of Dan and Rorschach personal. They had established it earlier that Dreisberg was the only person who comprehended that Rorschach had issues, and let it be. Just 'cause one too many birds flew over the coo-coos nest, doesn't mean he is an idiot. To me, it seamed like Dan had been therapeutic to Rorschach. Does that make sense?
Anyways, i LOVED this movie.
Yeah, I think Dan was his only real friend, and that the movie did a MUCH better job of portraying that friendship.
Quote from: steamteck on July 28, 2009, 04:15:04 AM
Just rented it and flat out hated it. The pacing was horrible. I didn't like the original graphic novel but I sure didn't think I'd find the movie so bloody boring
I stand corrected I just borrowed a copy of the comic and the movie was rip roaring exciting compared to it. it also made me actually engage with some of the characters. Something the novel never quite managed to do. I'd forgotten just how much I hated the graphic novel. I'll never understand how any actual comic fans can enjoy it.
Quote from: steamteck on August 14, 2009, 03:37:10 AM
...I'll never understand how any actual comic fans can enjoy it.
With good taste, of course. ;)
Steamteck... I fail to see a point in any of your posts. Really, your only purpose here seems to be to gripe about how fans react to a graphic novel that's a decade or so old. Heck, it's not even that... you're not even listing reasons for the hatred, you're just saying "this is boring. It sucks. who would like this garbage?"
Well guess what? I like the Graphic Novel. I like the movie. And most of the people in this thread? They also like the GN and Movie. And even those who don't have been able to articulate what, using more then a phrase to do so, they disliked about either or both. These points have been discussed in, for the most part, a well reasoned manner typical of the community.
Your comments, however, leave no room for discussion, nor are they backed up by any credible facts. You have, repeatedly, called a movie which features spaceships on mars, guys heads being chopped open, and arm bones being snapped out of their sockets repeatedly. Just because you are not capable of understanding some of the writing does not negate the fact that these events are just about as NOT boring as you can get.
If you have a point to make, then by all means, make it. Let us discuss your opinion as though we are, God forbid, rational human beings capable of stringing a sentence together. And even if after the discussion is done no minds have been changed (to like or dislike the book) at least respect the fact that we enjoy this movie and don't be a jerkface.
Saw it recently. I wasn't very fond of it. I never liked the graphic novel (though i read it awhile back, so maybe my comprehension of it wasn't that great), but I watched the movie anyways. Something about a hero movie about how unheroic they really are didn't seat well with me. But that was probably they reason for my dislike, i went into it thinking about it as a hero movie, so obviously i would dislike it.
I also dislike the cinematographer, so that didn't help either. Just wasn't that great of a movie to me, though I can see how some people would like it.
*half wanted to just leave a comment that said "sucks" to urine off tomato* :P
Watchmen is the type of movie that you either love it or hate it. I love the novel and enjoyed the movie. I don't they need an ultimate edition with TotBF put in the movie. It would be too much.
Can't wait for Watchmen II. That ending totally left it open for a sequel.
j/k
Are you serious?????
See bottom of my post. lol
Quote from: Tomato on August 14, 2009, 05:04:47 AM
Steamteck... I fail to see a point in any of your posts. Really, your only purpose here seems to be to gripe about how fans react to a graphic novel that's a decade or so old. Heck, it's not even that... you're not even listing reasons for the hatred, you're just saying "this is boring. It sucks. who would like this garbage?"
Your comments, however, leave no room for discussion, nor are they backed up by any credible facts. You have, repeatedly, called a movie which features spaceships on mars, guys heads being chopped open, and arm bones being snapped out of their sockets repeatedly. Just because you are not capable of understanding some of the writing does not negate the fact that these events are just about as NOT boring as you can get.
If you have a point to make, then by all means, make it. Let us discuss your opinion as though we are, God forbid, rational human beings capable of stringing a sentence together. And even if after the discussion is done no minds have been changed (to like or dislike the book) at least respect the fact that we enjoy this movie and don't be a jerkface.
I understand the writing just fine but won't be a Jerkface by elaborating what I find its faults OK. Here's my two cents. All my opinion for anyone who can't figure that out. This was all my reaction to fictional works just an opinion.
I found the pacing off in the movie but it was an improvement on the novel. It jumped around too much and didn't let us settle in on any character enough for me. So I did find the earlier parts not especially exciting even if there were exploding people etc. Again, they had lots of ground to cover and that may be as good as it gets.
The action when they got to it was well done if one sided. I found the alley scene unnecessarily graphic for my personal taste but fairly exciting. The Mars sequence was very nicely done but again it was towards the end and we had to wait for it. The film really picked up once Dan decided to stop being afraid for me.
I liked the HG wells style fake invasion in the novel fine but the Dr. Manhattan scam actually worked better for me. Just seemed cleaner and forced him off planet killing 2 birds with one stone.
another improvement I found in the movie is I personally was never engaged with the characters in the novel and I did engage with them far more in the movie.
In the book it bothered me that Rorschach was warded off by the cat ( always seemed to me he was a do or die guy) and I'm glad they avoided that pitfall ( to me at least it was a pitfall)
Visually I liked the movie versions of the characters almost universally better. Personal preference I prefer larger than life look.
All in all I liked the changes that were made in transition from novel to movie. For me at least, it corrected some of the flaws in the novel and made it much more watchable if not one of my favorite films.
Quote from: murs47 on August 14, 2009, 04:45:03 AM
Quote from: steamteck on August 14, 2009, 03:37:10 AM
...I'll never understand how any actual comic fans can enjoy it.
With good taste, of course. ;)
Yeah, I'm know a heathen, I hate Kingdom Come also. Fortunately I've found friends who share my tastes.
Wasn't a Jerkfacish post at all, Steamteck. I like your analysis. I personally never found neither the novel (which I read in one evening) and the movie to drag, though perhaps it did leap now and then. The movie wins in that respect, though, since the leaps were done somewhat artistically. I didn't mind it much in the comic, though I did find myself stepping back a page or two to figure out where I was. I do the same with most books I read.
The music was an oddity, especially near the beginning. I bet most of you went "bwuh?" when neun-und-neunzig luftballoons came on when Laurie and Dan met up. It wasn't even ironic or anything. Can someone enlighten me on a reason why it was there? Simon and Garfunkle was another odd choice. I suppose it fitted the funeral scene.
All in all I still love it. When I bought it, though, I had no idea there was a director's cut. Will have to try and borrow a copy.
Quote from: Reepicheep on August 16, 2009, 09:28:43 PM
The music was an oddity, especially near the beginning. I bet most of you went "bwuh?" when neun-und-neunzig luftballoons came on when Laurie and Dan met up. It wasn't even ironic or anything. Can someone enlighten me on a reason why it was there? Simon and Garfunkle was another odd choice. I suppose it fitted the funeral scene.
All in all I still love it. When I bought it, though, I had no idea there was a director's cut. Will have to try and borrow a copy.
I think the idea of the music was to evoke feelings of the era and try to play on emotional connections the pieces have in the popular psyche. be an old guy, that mostly worked for me. I actually would be curious about the director's cut. I find I almost always like them better than the theatrical version of a film. Often stuff gets cut that is good character development or adds texture to the story or just plain makes things make more sense.
the director's cut? My guess is that the theatrical version is cut to have a lower rating. I guess you could call that texture. that and it probably has expanded scenes it seemed much longer.
And wow.... the plot in this movie is so stinking convoluted that it's hard to fathom just how someone could have come up with it. Especially the ending. O_O!!!