I've been stressing for the last hour or so on how to phrase this in such a way as to keep the purpose of this thread from becoming a degenerative flame war, but still accomplishes the purposes I have in mind and does so in a relatively classy way (y'know, for a forum consisting of me, TUE, Murs, and... well, half of FR for that matter). Instead of trying guile or some insane master plan, I'll be direct.
There are details missing, added, or incorrectly applied on a significant portion of skins done by more then one person that I know irritate me. And while I feel no anger toward the skinners, I see these things crop up and it's like I have a bee buzzing in my ear. Now, to be fair, I can point these things out to a skinner, but these sorts of things are often so minor I don't want to call out any one person doing it and go "how dare you do this!" (which it can sometimes seem to people even if it's mentioned offhand) when in truth they're just one of many.
And thus, this thread. I'm making this so that those who have a pet peeve can list it (including people new to the community), and those who create content, specifically skins but other types as well, can freely choose to accept or ignore the criticism. Now, don't misunderstand me. This isn't a "bash AA" or "Bash TUE" or "Bash Tomato" thread. Issues with one skinner or about one skin go to their boards on here or elsewhere, or even sent directly via PM. This is just for more... general issues, pet peeves, etc.
That being said... I'll start with my Pet Peeve, give you guys an example, move things along, that sorta thing.
Long story short, the reason I put so much stock in the faces of my skins is because I dealt with the face-upper torso area quite a bit in one style of artwork, the little card sprites I use as my forum avatars 90% of the time. In doing so, I learned much about how the neck was set up. In particular, I learned how the "Sternomastoid muscle" of the neck was shaped, even if I didn't necessarily know it's name before looking it up on google a few minutes before I began typing this.
For those of you who don't want to look it up, here's the reference photo I found (which people can also blame if I got the name wrong)
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8932/frontofneck.jpg)
Now, the Sternomastoid is a muscle that stretches from, roughly, the bottom of the ear to the inner tip of the collarbone. As you can see from the image above, the most of the muscle is wrapped around the sides of the neck, and only comes to the center further down.
Why am I pointing this out? Well, because when I look at several skinners, using a variety of bases and styles, and see that for some reason they all seem to have the Sternomastoid connecting the tip of the chin or the middle of the jaw to the collarbone, it annoys me.
Like I said above, this is not a slam on anyone in particular. It's a stupidly insignificant detail on the whole of any skin, and if I hadn't spent hours coming up with new ways to shade it with dots I probably wouldn't even notice. But I do notice, and I thought I'd point it out rather then just, y'know, continue to seeth in private and curse you all for eternity.
So anyway, have at it guys. If there's anything from your backgrounds or experience you wish to point out, go for it.
That guy is definitely part giraffe.
Thanks for pointing that out...now I can't stop looking at it! :P
On my current base the sternomastoid muscles looks like they're placed correctly...when lying flat that is. On a mesh it gets distorted and the muscles look attached to the middle of the jaw. I never noticed it before probably because it's pretty minor like you said.
A pet peeve of mine is that I wish people would stop using the face from my very first base. I hate it. I cringe and ask why....why would anyone use such a horrible looking face? It looks like a lizard man to me! :lol:
Another minor peeve is when skinners trace over the costume lines from another persons skin. Not that big of a deal really and I understand why newbie skinners would do it...but that's no excuse the veterens out there! :P
Yeah, it's just one of those annoying warping things... I think to get it right on my base I ended up having to have the thing turn almost 90 degrees around that section of the wireframe, and even then it still warps slightly.
I think another point that has irritated me in the past (and this is one that I've been called on too, which is actually why I notice it now) is the black hole in the... lower torso-ish area, let's say. Many skinners seem to insist, for some reason, that we need Superman to be a eunuch.
Now, I realize that's mainly a problem with C6's old base (and, to be fair, he's long since corrected it in his own work) but it's odd how it's something no one notices.
Same face syndrome. It makes other wise amazing detailed skins look like Captain Action cosplaying.
Oh and hating a character and then skinning them. I never understood that one (even though I've done it before) but maybe it is because I only skin characters I love. You can always see the lack of caring I think.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on June 20, 2009, 08:03:20 PM
Same face syndrome. It makes other wise amazing detailed skins look like Captain Action cosplaying.
Guilty. I am trying to change that tho...
I just thought of another one. The legs attaching to the feet seems like a high problem area for skinners. I often see skins where the hightlight/shade on the shin would not blend nicely into he ankle then foot...just a sharp cut off at the ankle. This could be said for any sectional attach point I suppose (neck to torso and waist to hips).
Quote from: AfghanAnt on June 20, 2009, 08:03:20 PM
Same face syndrome.
Yeah... I have a never the same face twice philosophy.
Quote from: Courtnall6 on June 20, 2009, 08:23:50 PM
The legs attaching to the feet seems like a high problem area for skinners. I often see skins where the hightlight/shade on the shin would not blend nicely into he ankle then foot...just a sharp cut off at the ankle. This could be said for any sectional attach point I suppose (neck to torso and waist to hips).
This is one of my peeves as well.
I have a few pet peeves. The one which comes to the top of my mind is the 'over beveled' look on parts of costumes which should be flat. I understand the desire to get separation or highlight certain costume features like the insignia... but I don't like when they look 'puffy'.
Another peeve is when the style or tone of the face doesn't blend well with the skin itself. I notice this esp when people try to photoskin or make the 'effort' to otherwise diversify the face by using one from a base by another artist as a foundation for the face. I just think a bit more effort needs to be put into making sure everything blends well.
*looks at the list*
and i'm giving up skinning :P
Quote from: murs47 on June 20, 2009, 03:08:56 PM
That guy is definitely part giraffe.
Fun fact! Giraffes and humans both have only 7 vertebrae in their neck.
Sternocleidomastoid. It attaches to the sternum, clavicle (cleido) and mastoid process - hence the name.
Don't forget about the trapezoids.
My pet peeve is Murs.
Quote from: Gremlin on June 22, 2009, 02:48:47 AM
My pet peeve is Murs.
Grem, I'm not your pet. But, I am potty trained.
ok back on topic, i hate it, hate it, hate it when someone tells you, you should have done this or that with your skin
i don't mean constructive feedback thats great, but i mean people who just come in a moan and complain about how you should have done this version of a character instead or to change the colour just cause they want it.
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on June 22, 2009, 08:26:09 PM
ok back on topic, i hate it, hate it, hate it when someone tells you, you should have done this or that with your skin
i don't mean constructive feedback thats great, but i mean people who just come in a moan and complain about how you should have done this version of a character instead or to change the colour just cause they want it.
*shakes UE's hand*
We should hang out more. ^_^
damn right
I hate that I can't skin...
...And spiders. They creep me out.
I now have an image of a giant spider monster sewn out of human skin.
Thanks, Goggles. Thanks a lot.
It puts the lotion on its skin....
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on June 22, 2009, 08:26:09 PM
ok back on topic, i hate it, hate it, hate it when someone tells you, you should have done this or that with your skin
i don't mean constructive feedback thats great, but i mean people who just come in a moan and complain about how you should have done this version of a character instead or to change the colour just cause they want it.
I'll agree to an extent, but I've had one or two occasions where someone suggested a color change and even I've agreed it looked better
I have three pet peeves. The first is when the face on a skin looks totally unnatural because something is shaped entirely wrong- nose, eyes, or mouth. The second is when people spell words like color or armor with a u. I mean get with the freakin program. The people in the 1800s spelled color like colour. Normal people spell it like color, which is how it is supposed to be. The final pet peeve of mine is when hair looks flat on a skin's head (note that I am guilty of this as well since I'm a noob skinner). I mean some of the skins look like the heroes got their head tattooed to look like they have hair. Just sayin.
Quote from: stonecold on June 26, 2009, 04:32:16 AM
The second is when people spell words like color or armor with a u. I mean get with freakin the program. The people in the 1800s spelled color like colour.
That is how most non-North Americans spell the word. I'm actually sort of guilty of this (not with color but with words like "analogue", "modelling" and "dialogue" where I was taught to spell them in British English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences).
What I'm trying to say is, you're being unfair with that pet peeve unless you hate accents, the metrics system, and foreigners in general.
Cheers!
Quote from: AfghanAnt on June 26, 2009, 04:48:36 AM
Quote from: stonecold on June 26, 2009, 04:32:16 AM
The second is when people spell words like color or armor with a u. I mean get with freakin the program. The people in the 1800s spelled color like colour.
That is how most non-North Americans spell the word. I'm actually sort of guilty of this (not with color but with words like "analogue", "modelling" and "dialogue" where I was taught to spell them in British English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences).
What I'm trying to say is, you're being unfair with that pet peeve unless you hate accents, the metrics system, and foreigners in general.
Cheers!
There are two things I hate. Intolerance and the Dutch. <_<
new pet peeve:
Saying the same thing in one thread I've already repeated in five other threads over the past week, and still have no one know what I'm talking about when I'm chatting with them.
VERTEX IS A CHAMPION NOW! HIS STUFF WILL NOT BE ON NPI!
I mean... one would think at least OTHER CHAMPIONS would know this by now *gives evil eye to murs*
Quote from: AfghanAnt on June 26, 2009, 04:48:36 AM
Quote from: stonecold on June 26, 2009, 04:32:16 AM
The second is when people spell words like color or armor with a u. I mean get with freakin the program. The people in the 1800s spelled color like colour.
That is how most non-North Americans spell the word. I'm actually sort of guilty of this (not with color but with words like "analogue", "modelling" and "dialogue" where I was taught to spell them in British English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences).
What I'm trying to say is, you're being unfair with that pet peeve unless you hate accents, the metrics system, and foreigners in general.
Cheers!
I am from North America, and I had no idea that foreigners spelled the words like that. All I am saying is that is how I was raised to spell them and it kind of bugs me when people don't spell them like that. I don't have anything against anybody.
Quote from: Tomato on June 23, 2009, 01:41:45 AM
I'll agree to an extent, but I've had one or two occasions where someone suggested a color change and even I've agreed it looked better
exactly that is why i said i don't mind feed back that is constructive, it's crap like
"dude i have an fx that is a different colour, change the colour/add this so it will work with the fx"
bugger that change your own stuff
QuoteThe second is when people spell words like color or armor with a u. I mean get with freakin the program. The people in the 1800s spelled color like colour.
It's mostly just an american thing to spell words like "color" and "armor" minus the letter U. We canadians didn't really follow that trend. :D
QuoteThe final pet peeve of mine is when hair looks flat on a skin's head (note that I am guilty of this as well since I'm a noob skinner). I mean some of the skins look like the heroes got their head tattooed to look like they have hair. Just sayin.
That use to look weird to me at the beginning too...but I don't even notice the difference anymore. I often prefer to skin "tattoo" hair....that way I have full control of the style I want.
As for colour change requests...it doesn't really bother me. I take it into consideration and sometimes test it out.
Quote from: stonecold on June 26, 2009, 10:44:19 AM
Quote from: AfghanAnt on June 26, 2009, 04:48:36 AM
Quote from: stonecold on June 26, 2009, 04:32:16 AM
The second is when people spell words like color or armor with a u. I mean get with freakin the program. The people in the 1800s spelled color like colour.
That is how most non-North Americans spell the word. I'm actually sort of guilty of this (not with color but with words like "analogue", "modelling" and "dialogue" where I was taught to spell them in British English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences).
What I'm trying to say is, you're being unfair with that pet peeve unless you hate accents, the metrics system, and foreigners in general.
Cheers!
I am from North America, and I had no idea that foreigners spelled the words like that. All I am saying is that is how I was raised to spell them and it kind of bugs me when people don't spell them like that. I don't have anything against anybody.
I'm from North America as well and I spell certain words in British English. If anything it is a regional differences. I am sure if you went to certain part of Texas or Miami, their pet peeve would be you speaking in English.
Quote from: Tomato on June 26, 2009, 07:00:21 AM
new pet peeve:
Saying the same thing in one thread I've already repeated in five other threads over the past week, and still have no one know what I'm talking about when I'm chatting with them.
VERTEX IS A CHAMPION NOW! HIS STUFF WILL NOT BE ON NPI!
I mean... one would think at least OTHER CHAMPIONS would know this by now *gives evil eye to murs*
Why Mr. Thomas Ato, I haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. :mellow:
*pours warm water in a blender*
Look, I made you a jacuzzi. I'm such a nice guy. ^_^
Quote from: stonecold on June 26, 2009, 10:44:19 AM
Quote from: AfghanAnt on June 26, 2009, 04:48:36 AM
Quote from: stonecold on June 26, 2009, 04:32:16 AM
The second is when people spell words like color or armor with a u. I mean get with freakin the program. The people in the 1800s spelled color like colour.
That is how most non-North Americans spell the word. I'm actually sort of guilty of this (not with color but with words like "analogue", "modelling" and "dialogue" where I was taught to spell them in British English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences).
What I'm trying to say is, you're being unfair with that pet peeve unless you hate accents, the metrics system, and foreigners in general.
Cheers!
I am from North America, and I had no idea that foreigners spelled the words like that. All I am saying is that is how I was raised to spell them and it kind of bugs me when people don't spell them like that. I don't have anything against anybody.
Its a British thing. We like bunging u's into our wourds.
(Then, you gotta ask yourselves, do you really pronounce it armor, as in 'or'. Nor do we pronounce it armour as in as in our. If anything, it should be spelled armuh. Language sucks.)
Quote from: Courtnall6 on June 26, 2009, 01:58:41 PM
QuoteThe final pet peeve of mine is when hair looks flat on a skin's head (note that I am guilty of this as well since I'm a noob skinner). I mean some of the skins look like the heroes got their head tattooed to look like they have hair. Just sayin.
That use to look weird to me at the beginning too...but I don't even notice the difference anymore. I often prefer to skin "tattoo" hair....that way I have full control of the style I want.
The thing is, it's hard to see a lot of details in the game. You see a lot more in Chaacter Tool. You can model and shade the hair so that it's not really noticiable that it's "painted" on. And, as C6 states, you have more control over exactly how it looks.
Quote from: Reepicheep on June 26, 2009, 03:15:57 PM
Quote from: stonecold on June 26, 2009, 10:44:19 AM
Quote from: AfghanAnt on June 26, 2009, 04:48:36 AM
Quote from: stonecold on June 26, 2009, 04:32:16 AM
The second is when people spell words like color or armor with a u. I mean get with freakin the program. The people in the 1800s spelled color like colour.
That is how most non-North Americans spell the word. I'm actually sort of guilty of this (not with color but with words like "analogue", "modelling" and "dialogue" where I was taught to spell them in British English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences).
What I'm trying to say is, you're being unfair with that pet peeve unless you hate accents, the metrics system, and foreigners in general.
Cheers!
I am from North America, and I had no idea that foreigners spelled the words like that. All I am saying is that is how I was raised to spell them and it kind of bugs me when people don't spell them like that. I don't have anything against anybody.
Its a British thing. We like bunging u's into our wourds.
(Then, you gotta ask yourselves, do you really pronounce it armor, as in 'or'. Nor do we pronounce it armour as in as in our. If anything, it should be spelled armuh. Language sucks.)
mr icheep is right, the americans removed the u from alot of words because you're all lazy bums :P after all, it is "the queen's english" and all *sits smugly* :P
now lets all sit around and learn the correct pronounciation of "aluminium" *dives for cover*
on topic, it's a comic genre game, therefore I forgive anatomical errors and blame it on good 'ol Rob