Freedom Reborn

Archive link (http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=46624.0)

Catwoman on B:TBATB (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0812/23/index.htm)

Anyone watched tonights episode? Guy cameo!  :thumbup:

Well, this one wasn't bad, but I didn't really enjoy it as much as I was hoping I would.  I can't put my finger on what exactly it was that didn't work for me, but there was something that pulled me out of the adventure.  Bader's voice was also more noticeable and ill-fitting this episode.  My wife, who had previously said she thought he was doing fine, pointed it out and rescinded her approval.  Green Arrow was moderately entertaining.

I found this latest episode (opener with Guy, main story the Demon and Green Arrow) to be very "meh".  The competitiveness theme worked when they used it in the opener of the pilot because it never overshadowed the action.  This time it was a major element and it just felt forced.  Stuff happened, but it never felt like a coherent plot. The Green Lantern stuff was fun, but it was only the opener. IMO, the weakest episode of the season thus far.

Not to say I haven't enjoyed the series so far.  The opener was pretty good (a little weak in middle 3rd), the Plastic Man episode was a hoot,  smiled through the Red Tornado ep, and even  got a kick out of some of the stuff in the Aquaman.  It's a fun take on Batman but still (mostly) keeps the character intact without being too silly. I'm just hoping this latest episode was just a "writers off their game" episode.  

Anyone notice some of the villains during the prison sequence were from the old 60's live action Batman series? I spotted King Tut, Louie the Lilac, the Bookworm, the Mad Hatter, and I think False Face and Egghead (not sure about the last one).

My only enjoyment has been seeing things like the new Blue Bettle or Guy Gardner.

This is a show that is a little too kiddie for a sad single 25 year old like me.

BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD: "ENTER THE OUTSIDERS!" (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0901/07/index.htm)

Scrolled down for images and teaser videos.

   I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how Wildcat is portrayed tonight.

Finally got to see an episode of this... man, it's great! I love the light-hearted tone and the fast pace (two complete stories in a half-hour, how cool is that?). They actually made Bwana Beast cool!  :blink:

Bwana Beast. Boy, was that a fun surprise -- particularly Batman's muted reaction at how really icky his animal-combining power is.
And I have to say that this series has one of the great super hero musical themes. It's a nice, fun, light counterbalance to the excellent but deeply depressing super hero movies that have been released lately.

The story with Bwana Beast was definitely one of the funnest pre-stories so far! 

Mmmmm... Nobody has commented on the recent episode of Batman yet.. I missed it on Friday (out of town) but I have it on my TiVo so I'll probably watch it later tonight...

Anyway, I wanted to post about the upcoming episode "Fall Of The Blue Beetle" featuring.. The New Beetle and Ted Kord (Yes, The Fan Favorite Blue Beetle)..

(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/crimsonquill/batman.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/crimsonquill/batman3.jpg)

Rumors are the short feature will have a classic adventure between Ted Kord (as Silver Age Beetle) and Batman with the main feature having the New Beetle trying to understand the legacy of the Beetle and why he was chosen to be the new host, what happened to Ted Kord, and facing a villian that wants revenge against both of them.

Guest voices include: Wil Wheaton as Ted Kord/Silver Age Blue Beetle and Lex Lang as Dr. Polaris.

I saw friday's, and it was pretty good.  Missed about a minute of the opener but had a pretty good idea what was going on. 

Opener: Guest hero - Kamandi
Batman has gone forward to Kamandi's time to get a cure for a plague of some kind (like I said, missed the first minute or so)  Not bad but hard to review without the whole thing.

Main Story: Guest Heroes - Deadman, Green Arrow, Speedy
We open with Batman rising from his own grave.  What a way to start, and we quickly learn why in a flashback of the last few hours.  I admit, I had a minor problem with Batman being able to "astral project" from some tibetan training, but that turned out to be a minor quibble in an otherwise solid episode.  The voice of Boston Brand, a ghost who takes an interest in a new spirit hanging around his haunt, sounded familiar but I was unable to place it until I saw the credits, and my opinion of Michael Rosenbaum as a voice actor just went up another notch.  A good balance of humor and action with a touch of occult, a decent villanous plot, a nice bit with the Waynes, and Green Arrow being used much MUCH better than last time all added up to a nice bit of entertainment.

Yeah, I enjoyed this one pretty well....although the idea of "borrowing" Speedy (and asking Green Arrow about it, not Speedy himself) just so that Deadman could take a joyride was more than a little unsettling. :P  Just think about that for a few minutes.  Anyway, all in all, a solid episode.  I never in my life thought that I'd see Kamandi animated, and he looked like he could have been drawn by the King himself.  That was pretty cool.  I would have liked to see a Green Arrow and Speedy solo episode, to tell the truth, but this was still fun.

The prospect of seeing the real Blue Beetle next episode...that is something I'm very excited about...but I was more excited before I heard that he was only the opener, and the annoying new version is the main story.

Sneak peek BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD: "FALL OF THE BLUE BEETLE!"  (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0901/17/index.htm)

Scroll down a bit for the 13 images and vid.

If the new Blue Beetle isn't the "real" Blue Beetle, shouldn't Dan Garrett be the real Blue Beetle?  Just throwing that out there...

Quote from: Talavar on January 20, 2009, 01:45:30 AM
If the new Blue Beetle isn't the "real" Blue Beetle, shouldn't Dan Garrett be the real Blue Beetle?  Just throwing that out there...

Don't be silly. The "real" Blue Beetle is always the one the watcher identifies with. So that means Jamie. :P.  Joking aside, maybe "Dan" was the one that died. They did say that in Jamie's first episode, right? One of the Beetles died or some such.

Nope Talavar, the real one is Ted...and you know why?  'Cause, that's why. :P

Quote from: Previsionary on January 20, 2009, 01:52:17 AM

Quote from: Talavar on January 20, 2009, 01:45:30 AM
If the new Blue Beetle isn't the "real" Blue Beetle, shouldn't Dan Garrett be the real Blue Beetle?  Just throwing that out there...

Don't be silly. The "real" Blue Beetle is always the one the watcher identifies with. So that means Jamie. :P.  Joking aside, maybe "Dan" was the one that died. They did say that in Jamie's first episode, right? One of the Beetles died or some such.

It was mentioned that a previous owner of the Blue Beetle ARMOR was killed by Kanjar Ro.   Could be it's a completely unnamed precursor to even Dan Garrett, someone alien even.   

PS:I frickin love that clip with BB.

For those of you who can't wait... here is a brief moment of Ted's appearance as Blue Beetle...

http://www.newsarama.com/common/media/video/player.php?aid=25397 (http://www.newsarama.com/common/media/video/player.php?aid=25397)

Edit: Oh frak.. It's the same video that was available on Midnite's link above...  :banghead:.. oh well, it's another link to it..

- CQ

That....was awesome....I want an episode of that.

Quote from: BentonGrey on January 20, 2009, 09:34:28 PM
That....was awesome....I want an episode of that.

There are rumors from the writers and an interview with Wil Wheaton that Booster Gold is planned for later episodes and if reaction to "Fall Of The Blue Beetle" is favorable it might allow them to push for further Silver Age Blue Beetle flashback sequences - one of which will have Booster and Ted together during an adventure.

- CQ

Sign me up!

According to IMDB
Batman: The Brave and The Bold
Billy West    ...    Skeets (unknown episodes, 2008)[/quote]

and elsewhere
Tom Everett Scott
"Batman: The Brave and the Bold" (2008) TV series .... Booster Gold (unknown episodes, 2008)

(why are these not on the same page?)

RE: Fall of the Blue Beetle

Short review: Me likey.  :D

Longer Review (includes some spoilers)

Spoiler

So it looks like short of Booster Gold type intervention, the only way we're going to see the Ted Kord Blue Beetle is in flashback which is my one regret about this episode.  Banter between Bats and Ted was wonderful and Will Wheton makes a great Blue Beetle/Ted Kord. 

It also establishes (albeit breifly) that the Dan Garrett Blue Beetle did exist, but is also deceased.  The details are left up in the air, only that it established a close bond between him and Ted. 

This may make it sound like it was a dour episode, but oddly enough it wasn't - it was actually pretty light in the beginning and managed to maintain a pretty good balance throughout.  Jamie is really growing on me, more than I thought he would which is good since they've been using him frequently.  I just hope they move beyond his whole "questioning heroism" thing eventually.  Two episodes, okay, but after that it's going to start getting old.

Some things to look for:
- talking shop (yes you saw it in the clips above, I still love it)
- origin of the Green Lantern and believability thereof
- the whole Doctor Polaris fight
- tables and robotics experts
- contingency plans
- "No missiles in the lab, please."

Next week: opener looks to be Plastic Man and Elongated Man vs BabyFace
main story is the Brain & Chemo and Aquaman & The Atom
(man, can we pack in any more guest appearances?)

Fall of the Blue Beetle.
A nice homage to the Silver Age origin of Steve Ditko's Beetle, swirling in the fanboy satisfactions without getting bogged down by them.
Does anybody else get the sense they'd like to do a spinoff series on the new teen Blue Beetle?

Yeah Danhagen, we've seen a lot of him so far.  Still, we get more Aquaman next episode!  I rather wish Ray Palmer was with him, a-la their classic team up, but Ryan Choi was pretty cool.

Quote from: Glitch Girl on January 25, 2009, 02:20:17 AM
Next week: opener looks to be Plastic Man and Elongated Man vs BabyFace
main story is the Brain & Chemo and Aquaman & The Atom
(man, can we pack in any more guest appearances?)

Sweet - need more Plastic Man, my all time favorite DC hero.

Yeah, and him WITH Elongated Man...that should be relatively awesome.

Batman: The Brave And The Bold Scheduled For February 2009 On Cartoon Network (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=357) :thumbup: Can't wait for the 2 parter.  :thumbup:

Preview for Journey to the Center of the Bat! (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=354)

Yeah, and him WITH Elongated Man...that should be relatively awesome.
---
Yes, Benton. If they had thrown in Jimmy Olsen as Elastic Lad, I'd have been in true geek heaven.
An appearance by Lois or Jimmy or Supergirl with Batman would be an interesting angle.

from the posted clips...

"Do it again!"

I just nearly spit orange juice all over my monitor.  :D

Just when this show was starting to grow on me....this episode had a GREAT premise...I mean, pure superhero awesomeness.  Batman is being eaten from the inside by a nano-virus, and the Atom and Aquaman have to shrink down and go inside him to kill it.  Meanwhile, Bats is constantly trying to stop Chemo, who is on a rampage.  How could that possibly go wrong?  For starters, they've apparently decided that Aquaman needs to be a complete and total IDIOT.  He's not just a little brash, which I had convinced myself was the case from his first episode, he's stupid.  Stupid to the point of endangering their mission.  Yeah, yeah, he saves the day in the end, but he still can't understand simple ideas.  I take my heroes a bit more brainy than that.  Also, Elongated Man's voice for the opener?  Just about worst voice casting ever.

Yes, somehow that was the OPPOSITE of Ralph Dibny's voice. EM was a fun-loving celebrity with a taste for the limelight, not a pompous arse.

Agreed, it's not exactly true to the comics, but I get a kick out of Goofy Aquaman. He reminds me of Marvel's Hercules. Maybe DC should try that approach with their next Aquaman reboot... making him all grumpy and ticked off sure hasn't worked.

Don't get me wrong, JK, if he were just fun loving and brash like Hercules, I would enjoy it much more, but Hercules isn't an idiot.  Once again, they need to employ a little subtlety.

Quote from: BentonGrey on January 31, 2009, 04:23:18 PM
Don't get me wrong, JK, if he were just fun loving and brash like Hercules, I would enjoy it much more, but Hercules isn't an idiot.  Once again, they need to employ a little subtlety.

Hmmmm, my biggest beef was Atom being Choi and not Palmer, but thems the breaks.

I love this Aquaman.  I think you're taking things just a bit too harsh.  The clues are there on Aquaman not being an idiot... I think you're just taking it a tad personal and not catching them.  The lines where he says, "We shall call this adventure..."  "...but it'll make a great story!"

To me, those lines show he is fully aware of the details.  He's not an idiot, just caught up in the moment and could care less about the details that'll ruin his storytelling later.  He acknowledges the brash person he is and relishes it.  Why let the truth get in the way of a good story?

"What magic is this... ... do it again!"  "I will name him... ... it is!" shows he understands the details and facts and irregardles of them - is amused by himself, others and the situations.  I know magic, I do magic, I love magic.  I see a good trick, a magician shows me how it works, I ask... do it again... and not the reveal, but the trick.  Its an appreciation thing.  He's amazed by the use of the Atom's powers in the situation --- not an awestruck simpleton.

Do these things make him an idiot?  No.  He's not clueless, he's just quite a character. 

He makes me think about my Grandpa in fact who had some of the greatest if not most outrageous stories.  I'm sure some of the details were wrong, a lot of the facts jumbled and most of it highly exaggerated... but they were great stories and made me wish I was bare witness to them instead of just hearing them.  Did I think him an idiot as I got older and heard the same stories?  Of course not.  Just quite the character.   

RTT

RTT, perhaps I'm being a bit too harsh, but I'd say you're being a bit too forgiving.  Yeah, there are moments when he seems to just be having a blast, and in on the joke, but there are other times when he really seems dumb as a brick.  I think they could do what (I hope) they are going for without making it a matter of interpretation as to whether their hero is an idiot.

I enjoyed the nod to the fact that the Atom and Aquaman teamed in one of the Silver Age non-Batman issues of Brave and the Bold.  The series is much more respectful of its somewhat obscure origins than I had expected.
I wouldn't have bet two bucks that I'd ever see an Atom-Aquaman teamup on TV.
And Bwana Beast?!? Sheesh, as Stan would say.

Yeah Danhagen, I was really excited when I heard they were teaming these two up.  I mean, who would have thought that we'd ever get anyone acknowledging that this ever happened:

http://www.comicscardsandmore.com/comics2/bb73.JPG

Other than me, that is.  The episode had good moments, despite Aquaman's thick-headedness. 

Favorite line:

Aquaman: Um... what happened to the plan?

Atom (drunk on rightious anger): BLAHBLAHBLAH!!! LET'S PUNCH IT!!!

:D

Preview for 02/06/2009 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=361)

Wotan and Dr. Fate!  Cool!  I'd like that as the main story. :)

Wotan and Dr. Fate!  Cool!  I'd like that as the main story
---
Second the motion.

I've got a good premise for an opening segment:  Bats is tracking down Deathstroke, and Ambush Bug teams himself up with Bats.  Hillarity ensues.

Bwuhahahahah... One punch, one punch!  :thumbup:

G'nort, I told you-

NO. LICKING.

Two favorites:

1)"Right now, Shakespeare is spinning in his grave."

2) Batman punching Guy - classic moment revisited.

This was kind of a mixed episode for me.  I did like seeing Sinestro before his yellow ring days, but somehow, this episode never quite worked for me.  I'm not sure why though... maybe lots of little things, like Hal's plan with the ring, G'nort forgetting the oath (though some of the mangled versions he came up with were amusing), things like that. 

Yeah...missed this on Friday, but I got to see it last night.  The Fate/Wotan bit was pretty cool, although a bit too much Bat and not enough Fate. ;)  I liked the idea that, underneath all the spells and everything else, Fate is still a two-fisted adventurer.  It sorta' hearkened back to his Golden Age portrayal.  Wotan looked cool animated.  The GL episode...well, I LOVED seeing Hal animated and kicking butt.  I know he showed up in JLU very briefly, but that doesn't count.  He also showed up in "The Batman," but I didn't find that one particularly good either.  Hal came off decently in this episode, and got a couple of cool moments.  I even liked the voice they chose for him.  His plan with the ring...a bit out there, but I liked the reference to Justice.  That was a pretty cool idea.  Sinestro before he went yellow...it was a really interesting concept, and I think it worked decently well.  However, all of the good things are up against one simple fact.  I HATE G'nort.  I can't stand stupidity in that concentrated a form.  So, other than his part in it, I semi-enjoyed the episode.

I enjoyed the fact that Dr. Fate and Batman battled Wotan on an impossible M.C. Escher staircase. Classy touch. As was Fate's professorial voice.

Yeah, I liked Fate's voice better in JLU, but the one here was good too.  Once again, it felt more Golden Age-y.

Preview 02/20/09 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/11fangs/)

Meh.. was looking forward to the Owlman episode. 

Hmm...Jonah Hex...that's cool at least.

I thought that they weren't airing an ep on Friday - some Pokemon movie/Clone Wars 2 parter thing. 

Exclusive first look at the RED HOOD (http://gothamknightsonline.blogspot.com/2009/02/exclusive-first-look-red-hood-from.html)

I must say, I got a thrill hearing Hal recite the oath. I have always loved the oath. Real, unapologetic, mainlining super hero melodrama there, like the civic plea of the Bat Signal in the sky or Clark Kent glancing around furtively as he strides, suddenly changed and certain and purposeful, into the Daily News store room.

Daily Planet store room. What was I thinking?

Freaking Pokemon...pure evil, I tell you!  I wanted to see some Jonah Hex last night. 

Sorry about the mistake the preview is for the Feb. 20th.  :o

 :spoiler:
Deep Cover for Batman! (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/12deepcover/)
Game Over for Owlman! (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/13gameover/)

Now THIS one could be good.  Evil Aquaman and good Manta! 

You know, the names of those episodes sound so much like the names of the Wednesday and Thrusday night episodes of a '60's Batman TV show...

2 new vids for the 2 parter (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/media/video/s01e13.php)

I loved Silver Age parallel Earth crises as a kid, and this is a wonderful homage to them, full of fairly obscure references -- a heroic Red Hood, a Blue Bowman, Owlman, the Adam West Batcave entrance, the atomic pile, the mechanical dinosaur in the Batcave, the giant Joker card. Great stuff.

So far this series (or this version of Bats) blows "The Batman" out of the water.  This is up there with TAS.

"The others don't know what I'm capable of. One day I'll show them. I've got the true heart of a hero...I keep it in a big jar at the back of my closet." - Scarlet Scarab

Yeah I know it's an old line, but it's still a good one.

I quite enjoyed this episode.  Lot of good bits, some tight plotting, great banter, and I really liked how they handled the Red Hood.  I agree with Jey, this blows "The Batman" out of the water.  They actually managed to make Batman "light" without getting silly. 

Gonna be interesting to see how they do Joker all nice and insane.  Also kinda cool seeing Owlman in a close facimile of the original Batman costume in the previews. 

QuoteGonna be interesting to see how they do Joker all nice and insane.

The Joker that they are showing reminds me of the one they did in TAS with the 3 kids telling stories of Batman.  They may go with something from the Jack Nicholson version.

Quote from: JeyNyce on March 01, 2009, 03:01:37 PM
So far this series (or this version of Bats) blows "The Batman" out of the water.  This is up there with TAS.

........

So, this episode had a lot of strengths.  I enjoyed the premise greatly, and I really enjoyed the brief bits with the Red Hood, especially his origin.  That being said, I was disappointed overall, mostly because...surprise surprise, they lacked subtlety.  Basically, all we got were generically "evil" twins of the characters in the series, and in the spirit of "classic" alternate universe stories, the only thing to distinguish them from their good counterparts was that they were wearing different COLORS.  Not even a different costume design, except for Owlman.  Weak.  I would have liked something more visually interesting than Green Arrow...but blue.  What really bothered me is that there was no real substance to any of these villains.  I mean, thinking back to the similar story in JLA, or the Syndicate Rules storyline in the comics...there was SO MUCH POTENTIAL here, and so little done with it.  I don't know, I would have really liked to see what made, say, a good Black Manta tick...but I understand that this show simply isn't going to give me that.  It was enjoyable despite these things, although for a show that prides itself on flash over substance, I expected a bit more flash in the character designs.  Look, Grodd has white fur, he must be good!

This Batman reminds of the iteration of the character generally most despised -- the early Silver Age, pre-New Look Batman who kept tripping over aliens in the Gotham City. Growing up with that Batman, I always had a soft spot for him. The stories were silly fun, and there was nothing better than an issue of Detective Comics that gave you Batman and Robin, Roy Raymond and that marvelous Martian Manhunter for one thin dime.
This Batman is a more sophisticated version of that Batman, a costumed acrobat detective with gadgets who somehow has the confidence to oppose and thwart superhuman villains and alien invasions while tossing off quips.

What I think is that this series demonstrates just how many different types of story you can tell with Batman.  You can play him straight as in the DCAU, you can make him a little more "hip" a la The Batman (which really wasn't that bad, especially the last 3 seasons), or you can even have fun with him as this series is doing.  There's really not that much difference in characterization between the three--perhaps the DCAU Batman was a little more dry, but he wasn't lacking a sense of humor either--ultimately each character is still easily recognizable as the Dark Knight.  Really, it's only the settings that have changed.

:spoiler:
Joker in the Batcave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJx1rsCF7fo)

Episode was pretty good, have to agree with JeyNyce. Disappointed that they didn't give the other characters different costumes.
I would love to see a DC zombie universe.

Randyripoff is right. I think it was Denny O'Neil who observed that Batman is an extremely flexible super hero character who can fit in any genre from crime/noir to science fiction fantasy.

Like the comic book series on which it's based, this show has little use for Batman's dual identity, although that was one of the original appeals of the character. The other super hero characters tend to squeeze Bruce Wayne out of the picture.

Note that the Joker in this week's episode is clearly a Dick Sprang Joker. Nice touch.

GREEN ARROW: ...And no O'Brien, your assistance is not required.

So part 2 aired this week....

Me likey.  Me like muchly!

The creative team had great fun with this one.  TONS of great banter, I wish I could quote it all here, but a lot of it was contextual.  I laughed a lot, but it never felt "silly", which is no mean feat.  Jeff Glenn Bennett's Joker is very different from Mark Hamil's but honestly, I think his take worked amazingly well with the Sprague-inspired design on this one.  The banter, especially the running gag with the Batmobile controls were choice.   My inner fan-girl also got a kick of Owlman's first appearance in the original batsuit, down to the nod to a classic panel in the that shot.  

If this was to be the season finale (it felt like one) it would have been a great way to go out.  I suspect it may have been, but there's a new episode next week with Adam Strange so maybe they're showing them out of order or something.

Spoiler

At the end, Batman bring Batmen from the other universe had my inner fangirl going NEATO!  I didn't recognize the psionic one with the huge forehead, but there were several from the Batmen of All Nations and the vampire Batman from Red Rain.  If someone knows where the psionic one is from, let me know.

No, it was the season finale. Next week's episode is the start of season 2. They made 26 episodes and split it into 2 parts. It's similar to how they did Ben10:AF...though Ben10 had a month or so between its seasons.

Unfortunately, I got to miss all but the first 5 minutes of this episode, due to CN changing the time.  :angry:

Why, oh why, do so many of these cable networks (and some of the big 4, as well) juggle shows around so much?  Are they getting kick-backs from the Tivo people???

Friday, March 13: "Mystery in Space!" -- On his birthday, a melancholy Aquaman joins Batman for a space adventure on Adam Strange's home planet of Rann.

Friday, March 20: "Trials of the Demon!" -- In 19th century London, Jason Blood -- aka The Demon Etrigan -- has been framed for supernatural attacks perpetrated by Gentleman Ghost.

Link: http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0903/03/index.htm


:spoiler:
Batman: The Brave and The Bold episode "Mystery in Space!" Preview (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=387)

I missed the latest episode thanks to CN monkeying with the schedule, but I'm not terribly broken up about it.  I suppose I'll catch it rerun sometime this week, but the part of the finale that I was actually excited about was the previous one.

Now these two....they both sound pretty darn awesome.  Aquaman teaming up with Adam Strange and fighting Gordanians?  That's pure comic awesome....let's see if they manage to butcher it. :P

The Etrigan one sounds pretty cool, but what I'm REALLY excited about in that one is the Question!  He'd better be voiced by Jeffry Combs (sp?) from JLU.  He was the perfect Question in the same way Conroy is the perfect Batman. 

:EDIT: Watching the preview, I am not sure if the Question is voiced by Combs or not, but he does sound relatively similar.  Nothing particularly interesting from him in the snippet I saw, which is probably most of the opening venue.  On the other hand, I have to admit...Equinox strikes me as an interesiting villain.  I like the idea of someone who would target both heroes AND villains.  Even though HE is fairly overt in theme, they actually set up a mystery over exactly who he is and what powers he has...I like that.  Is this guy new, or does he actually exist in the comics?

The Aquaman episode looks pretty good from what little I can tell.  The music is fun, sorta' Flash Gordon-esque.  I love how Aquaman, looking bored just sorta' slaps down these big scary monster-like aliens who Batman and Adam Strange are fighting tooth and nail. :D

BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD: "TRIALS OF THE DEMON" images (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0903/17/index.htm)

Too much fun in this episode...

The Jay Garrick Flash... a quicker getaway...the world's greatest detective... the Gentleman before he became a Ghost... friend of yours... and my fav--- GASLIGHT COSTUME!

RTT

Gotta agree with RTT, the gaslight costume rocked. 

Jay Garrick... I hope we see him again.  Lots of fun.

And continuity... at first I wondered why was Jason summoning Batman during the Victorian era and then I remembered they met last season in Authurian times.  Nice touch.

Me likey.

Loved the Sherlock Holmes team-up, and the "deduction" about each other's identities. Both witty and respectful of the characters.

Just saw Game Over for Owlman. It was a great two parter. 

Spoiler

At first I didn't care for Jeff Bennet's Joker, but it kinda grew on me. Seeing a Batman/Joker team-up was really fun, and something I don't really remember seeing before in any versions of Batman (not that it definitely hasn't happened, just that I don't remember ever having read or seen any storylines where it happened). Also I'd like to say I think Corey Burton is awesome at voicing evil robots. Red Tornado IMO has a much better voice than he did in his brief appearances in JLU.

Gotta say, this show is surprisingly fun. Also, you CN viewers aren't the only ones being messed with. Teletoon in Canada has been switching BatB's timeslot around recently as well.

Quote from: Silver Shocker on April 06, 2009, 01:48:51 AM
Just saw Game Over for Owlman. It was a great two parter. 

Spoiler

At first I didn't care for Jeff Bennet's Joker, but it kinda grew on me. Seeing a Batman/Joker team-up was really fun, and something I don't really remember seeing before in any versions of Batman (not that it definitely hasn't happened, just that I don't remember ever having read or seen any storylines where it happened). Also I'd like to say I think Corey Burton is awesome at voicing evil robots. Red Tornado IMO has a much better voice than he did in his brief appearances in JLU.

Gotta say, this show is surprisingly fun. Also, you CN viewers aren't the only ones being messed with. Teletoon in Canada has been switching BatB's timeslot around recently as well.

Spoiler

Actually, the Joker team-up is a quiet nod to one of the more well known issues of the original Brave and Bold comics. Joker gets framed for a crime, and he teams up with Batman to take vengeance on the one who dared use his name.

Batman: Brave & The Bold Returns 5/1/09 With Huntress (http://www.comicvine.com/news/batman-brave-the-bold-returns-5109-with-huntress/138324/)

Quote from: Midnite on April 18, 2009, 07:22:12 AM
Batman: Brave & The Bold Returns 5/1/09 With Huntress (http://www.comicvine.com/news/batman-brave-the-bold-returns-5109-with-huntress/138324/)

Heh heh heh...

Pretty over the top but funny none the less.   The sandpaper cuddling had me lol'ing.  The drool in the second clip was a bit much, but as a whole --- still funny.  Is it me... or was that an actual High School Musical reference with "Get your head in the game"?

Huntress AND Black Canary, sweet!   :thumbup:

RTT

Nothing official, but I was trolling around Wikipedia (as I am know to do at work), and came across this little jem:

Quote from: Wikipedia: Bat- Mite
Bat-Mite will appear in an upcoming episode of the animated series Batman: The Brave and the Bold, voiced by Paul Reubens.

As a fan of Pee- Wee Herman, I thought this was kinda cool. Just wanted to share.

Bane and Booster Gold Previews!

Menace of the Conqueror Caveman Clip 1 (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=video&show_id=92505)

Menace of the Conqueror Caveman Clip 2 (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=video&show_id=92507)

Menace of the Conqueror Caveman Clip 3 (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=video&show_id=92511)

Does the zipper mouth creep anyone else out?

Quote from: The Hitman on April 29, 2009, 04:14:09 PM

Quote from: Wikipedia: Bat- Mite
Bat-Mite will appear in an upcoming episode of the animated series Batman: The Brave and the Bold, voiced by Paul Reubens.

If he shows up for recording. He was originally supposed to voice Flapjack. Of course, I'm very glad he didn't because the guy who does his voice now can make that whole show awesome just from Flap's voice.

Well, that just about did it for me with this show.  Mrs. Man Face?  What is this, Venture Bros?  Are there not enough wacky DC villains that they have to make up more?  I thought that was one of the main points of this show.  Anyway, this was terrible.  The show just seems to keep getting more and more "cartoony," complete with Looney Toon sound effects and sight gags.  I had hoped it would improve, but I'm about ready to give up.

The show wasn't that bad.  It was campy.  I never picture Huntress as the flirting kind though.  Funny that you mention Venture Bros.  I was thinking more like Dick Tracey.  Anyway did anybody else notice that King Tut was one of the villains ganging up on Batman?  I had a 60's batman flashback when I saw that.

Ugh, it was campy to the nth degree, and at the expense of anything else.  After all, remember that you can't make a show for kids unless you make it as inane and stupid as humanly possible, because kids are braindead vegetables incapable of processing any but the most basic data.

Clips & Images from "The Color of Revenge!" (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/media/video/s01e18.php)

Quote from: BentonGrey on May 10, 2009, 11:31:39 PM
kids are braindead vegetables incapable of processing any but the most basic data.

HAH! Pretty much sums it up for me!

:thumbup:

While I admit, the latest episode was far from stellar, I didn't loathe it as much as some.  I loved the opener with Black Canary, but Huntress I found to be quite dull and the "Puppy love" part tended to drag a lot (though Batman's advice on women, likening them to a computer and the exchange at the end were funny).  In short, some nice touches, but all in all not so hot.

I am looking forward to Booster Gold though.   

Episode #18 - The Color of Revenge!
Original Airdate - May 22nd, 2009
Batman and Robin team up again, but it's not like it always was--there was a reason Robin left to go work on his own. As Crazy Quilt comes after Robin for revenge, all the dirty laundry comes out between the dynamic duo!

Earth 2 grown up Robin.....hmm...I must say that, despite my best judgment, that tweaks my interest.  The tagline doesn't sound so great though.  I've never cared much for the drama between Bats and Robin, although who knows what diluted form that could take on this show.

I keep meaning to use slow motion during the prison escape in the one hwere Bats and GA go to Camelot. I know I saw The Bookwork and King Tut.

You did.

Episode #19 - Legends of the Dark Mite! (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/19darkmite/)

Well, it's managed to survive on my watch list for one more week.  This episode was entertaining enough that I'm giving it a reprieve to see how they handle Robin.  I enjoyed Booster Gold, and the uber goofiness was less noticeable.  It did REALLY bother me that they basically had Vandal Savage as the villain of the piece, but apparently decided that they didn't actually want to CALL him Vandal Savage.  What the heck is the rationale there?  The basic storyline, an immortal Savage trying to create a race of immortals because he feels the loneliness of living forever is actually a really, REALLY good idea.  It was, of course, cheesed up a lot here, but I would have really liked to see what Bruce Timm would have done with that.  I bet he'd have managed to make Savage really compelling.

The Brave and the Gold.... heh.

We've clashed a few times... ..."excuse me"

Not a bad episode at all.  Very intrigued by next weeks episode... and love seeing the JSA Robin.

Now, the week afters episode looks silly --- damn silly.  I'm all for it too.  The costume clip had me laughing and the convention clip was funny too.  Wonder if the voices of those in the crowd are anybody interesting?

RTT

Quote from: BentonGrey on May 17, 2009, 04:29:01 AM
It did REALLY bother me that they basically had Vandal Savage as the villain of the piece, but apparently decided that they didn't actually want to CALL him Vandal Savage.

Looks like they amalgamated Vandal Savage and King Kull.

The intro to the Robin episode, with a perfect homage to the 1960s TV series and the 1950s Batmobile, was just delightful.

So tonight was the Batmite episode.  I have to admit I was kinda leery about this one, but I felt better when I saw these four little words:

"Written by Paul Dini"

:D

Yup, same guy who wrote the Myx episode of "Superman"*  That said, it was a VERY funny episode. Tons of great bits like:

• "Green Arrow is going to love this",
  
• "Grodd... No Solomun Grundy....No, Shaggy Man, No-"  "Calendar Man"  "-Calendar Man!  ...Calendar Man?"
  
• Biker Santas
  
• The costumes bit, including a nod to Bat nipples ("Too icky")
  
• "Too over the top for a Bat villain" "I don't see how."
  
• The convention (San Diego anyone?)
  
• The statement AT the convention
  
• Bruce Timm AT the convention dressed as the Joker. ("Meh")
  
• The shot from the Batman:TAS original opener
  
• A whole lotta nods to "The Great Piggy Bank Robbery"  (a.k.a: "Duck Twacy" check this from the 4:15 mark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH6hcVRjJuA))
  
• "Ah crumbs"
  

All in all, I was pleasantly surprised and entertained.  Dragged a little bit in the latter third, but still a lot of fun.

*Complete digression in spoiler

Spoiler

Dini and Berkowitz and and third writer on the Superman series had a panel at DragonCon about the time the Second season of Superman:TAS was about to air.  It was one of the first panels of the day and the other two writers were slightly hung over, and here comes Dini, bright and cheerful (much to Berkowitz's chagrin) and he's brought donuts too.  The previewed two episodes, "Live Wire" and the Myx episode which had the entire room in stitches.  Ah... memories

Ditto GG!
I thought the convention was the best part, tying the series all together and responding to all of the online backwash on newsarama.

Saw it loved and totally agree with Glitchy as well. Was totally loving the looney tunes reference.

Do they not have the rights to certain DC Villans, or what?  First there was that nonsense with a poorly disguised Vandal Savage.  And now "Mr. Zero" instead of Mr. Freeze?

It's irritating.

Apparently the show is occasionally being written by poorly trained chimpanzees, bredon.

Anyway, I saw the Robin episode, and it was alright.  They brought out the conflict between father and son, but without it being overly angsty.  I appreciated that, and Crazy Quilt was actually interesting for the first time in his history.  Him being portrayed as a Mr. Mechanical-esque mad artist is actually a really good idea.  It would have been cool if he had taken to the streets to "paint the town."  Still, a moderately entertaining episode.  The show survives for another week for me.

Last couple of episodes, mostly meh.  Never been a fan of Booster Gold; didn't see the point of it being Vandal Savage but *not* Vandal Savage; *hated* the way they wrote Dick's authority issues so that it affected his professionalism; and Bat-Hound?  Really?  Don't at all like the new Blue Beetle, and every time he's on I can almost feel WB's pulsing desire to spin him off into his own show, with all of his supposed teenaged angsty garbage, and I just grit my teeth & try to power my way through the episode, hoping for a glimmer of something interesting.

Bat-Mite was interesting, reminded me a bit of World's Funnest. (has Bat-Mite always been a fifth-dimensional imp, or was that a recent retcon?  Is he from the same dimension/world as Myxy?)  I'm surprised we didn't get more Elseworlds costumes in that sequence.  And the ending made me laugh out loud.  A good laugh, not the cheap kind they try to go for way too often.  Overall, I feel like it's been sliding lately, but still hanging on.

Yeah, I don't like the new Blue Beetle either.  The only thing in his episodes I've enjoyed was the bit with Ted Kord. 

Quote from: bredon7777 on June 01, 2009, 04:02:41 PM
Do they not have the rights to certain DC Villans, or what?  First there was that nonsense with a poorly disguised Vandal Savage.  And now "Mr. Zero" instead of Mr. Freeze?

It's irritating.

I knew i had read about this somewhere before. Originally Mr. Freeze was Mr. Zero. Take a looke at the picture here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Freeze#Modern_Age . I hate the name and the costume, but i liked that they managed to use his originall identity in the show.

Ehh, he was a non-entity before he became Mr. Freeze.  Even then, he was utterly generic until Timm and co. got their hands on him.

Episode #20 - Hail the Tornado Tyrant! (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/20tyrant/)

Re: Mister Zero
I don't think this had anything to do with character rights and had more to do with era.  It appears that all of the villains pictured were specifically from the early days of the Batman Comic, when Mister Freeze was still Mister Zero.  I can't be 100% certain since I'm having a hard time finding info on a few of them (TigerShark for one), but I do think this was on purpose.

Benton, you are without a doubt, the most crotchity old superhero fan ever. I could just see you on your porch in a rocking chair.

Benton- "You kids and your Woovereens! Why, in my day we had real heroes."
Kids- "like who old man? Nobody can beat Wolverine."
Benton- "Like who? Aquaman, for one. He could take that panzy Woovereen any time. You see, he is a king that lives under the water. He has slightly above super strength, can swim really fast and has telepathy with fish."
Kids- blank stares followed by "BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!! He's got the powers of a 100 fish? BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!"
Benton- "Ungrateful little.... HEY, YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!"
:P

hahahah,
I love it how much airtime the classic villains like tweedledee and tweedledum get.
I want to see a penguin episode so bad now. i love the dick sprang penguin.  I think the Penguin Super Powers toys was one of my favorites, definitely in my top 5 with mister miracle, darkseid, flash, and hawkman.
Heck, all the kenner super powers toys were awesome!  (so were the marvel secret wars toys now that i recall)

Quote from: thanoson on June 03, 2009, 03:00:33 AM
Benton, you are without a doubt, the most crotchity old superhero fan ever. I could just see you on your porch in a rocking chair.

Benton- "You kids and your Woovereens! Why, in my day we had real heroes."
Kids- "like who old man? Nobody can beat Wolverine."
Benton- "Like who? Aquaman, for one. He could take that panzy Woovereen any time. You see, he is a king that lives under the water. He has slightly above super strength, can swim really fast and has telepathy with fish."
Kids- blank stares followed by "BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!! He's got the powers of a 100 fish? BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!"
Benton- "Ungrateful little.... HEY, YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!"
:P

'Nah, I love GOOD superhero stories, but stupidity bothers me.  I love Wolverine too...well...you know, I love how he was before Marvel made me tired of him.

Quote from: thanoson on June 03, 2009, 03:00:33 AM
Benton, you are without a doubt, the most crotchity old superhero fan ever. I could just see you on your porch in a rocking chair.

Benton- "You kids and your Woovereens! Why, in my day we had real heroes."
Kids- "like who old man? Nobody can beat Wolverine."
Benton- "Like who? Aquaman, for one. He could take that panzy Woovereen any time. You see, he is a king that lives under the water. He has slightly above super strength, can swim really fast and has telepathy with fish."
Kids- blank stares followed by "BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!! He's got the powers of a 100 fish? BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!"
Benton- "Ungrateful little.... HEY, YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!"
:P

This bolded line had me laughing, it reminds of why I often just stop my self before explaining anything related to fantasy or comics when people ask me. Just to sort of sound it out and normalize it as much as possible without sounding too crazy.

"You see, he is a king that lives under the sea..."

"DOES HE KNOW SPONGE BOB???"

"What?"

"Spongebob, you know yellow & porous is he, lives in a pineapple under the sea?"

"Aquaman does not know him you see, but golden and scaly with green leggings is he!
Ohhhh... who lives in kingdom under the sea? Aquaman spiffy tights!
King of the Sea and exciting he be! Aquaman spiffy tights!
Now jump in the water get telepathic talkin' with some fish! Aquaman spiffy tights!
If nautical adventures and fantasy fighting you wish! Aquaman spiffy tights!
Aquaman SPIFFFY TTIIIGGHTTS! Yar har har!"

Lol. You get 2 points. Heh, I sometimes have to check myself when describing wrestling storylines to those that are not in the know.

Batman: The Brave And The Bold Episode Details For June 2009 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=461)

"Duel of the Double Crossers!" (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/21duel/)

Batman has a danger room.  :lol:

The Last Bat on Earth! (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/22lastbat/)

Mister Miracle and Kamandi?!?!?!  Righteous!

Has the show gone into reruns in the US, or have people just stopped talking about it? Because Canada's been getting the new episodes (Tornado Tyrant, Duel of the Double Crossers, Last Bat on Earth) and I wanted to see what people thought of them, but no comments in this thread.

If anyone's interested, here are my thoughts:

Rise of the Tornado Tyrant: This is probably my favorite episode of the show ever. A very touching episode with more thought-provoking material than this show probably has any right to have.  It helps that I really like this show's take on Red Tornado (his voice and personality). However I was a little disappointed that

Spoiler

They had Tornado Champion become a bad guy, both because the moral ambiguity of the story dimmed out at that point and because his design looked ridiculous. It reminded me of a 90's Liefeld-esque design.

In the end it was still a very strong story.

Duel of the Double Crossers: This one I wasn't too keen on. I barely paid attention to it so I really couldn't tell you much of the plot but it involved War World, Mongul and Jonah Hex. I didn't like the inclusion of Mongal, especially with a male voice.

Last Bat on Earth: This is another one I wasn't a big fan on and didn't pay too much attention to. Then again, I'm not fond of the Kamandi concept so that definitely hurt the episode for me. I don't particularly like this show's version of Grodd as much as the JLU version. Here he seems more like a dumb brute as opposed to a calm calculated mastermind. (though the comics are guilty of this too)

This was one of the last episodes aired in the states. There hasn't been any new ones recently.

Some voice casting news...

Henry Rollins as Doom Patrol's Robotman (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2009/09/17/henry-rollins-to-join-the-doom-patrol-in-batman-the-brave-and/)

Neil Patrick Harris as Music Meister (includes song clip from episode) (http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/tv/5915-nph-brings-singing-supervillain-to-qbatman-the-brave-and-the-boldq.html)

Julie Newmar as Martha Wayne and someone else? (plus episode tidbits) (http://www.collider.com/2009/08/03/collider-tells-you-what-to-expect-on-batman-brave-and-the-bold-season-2/)

Oh the Music Meister episode just aired this Sunday in Canada. I thought it was pretty fun. Since NPH had done Dr. Horrible before I already knew he'd be great in a singing role but in general the whole thing was pretty good.

correct me if i'm wrong, but i think the season 1 was never aired entirely. in the us the last 3 episode were not shown, and in canada they aired only 2 of the 3 missing and in the wrong order.
in my collection i've got episode 1 to 22 in us, then 23 and 25 in canada tv and no episode 24.

Wow! i just saw the Music Meister episode, and as far as musical episode go, this one was pretty good. Neil Patrick Harris did a terrific job (by far the most convincing perfomance) and the goofy take on the show was actually fun. I'd have to rewatch it to see all the reference (all the villain in arkham singing, the different costumes of the meister) but i think there's a lot of nice touch in it, like the opening/closing of the curtain between each sequence.
I'm not awareof a second season...but i sure hope there'll be one.
Also, am I the only one who thinks Neil Patrick Harris would do a terrific Riddler?

Batman: Brave and the Bold - "The Golden Age of Justice" clip 1 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/31goldenage/clip01.mov)
Batman: Brave and the Bold - "The Golden Age of Justice" clip 2 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/31goldenage/clip02.mov)

The Golden Age of Justice images (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=647)

So is this season 2 or 3? And what time does it airs now?

Season 2, The Golden Age of Justice is like the 5th episode in, I think.
Friday 8:30pm on CN.

Damn! I missed it! I followed season 1 week after week and didn't even notice it started again

Same here.  Thanks Mid!

Man...I really am beginning to hate this show...not because it is necessarily terrible, but because I see stuff that makes me say, "Cool!" and then I actually go out of my way to watch it, and am met with the same lukewarm, mediocre, fluff.  That episode with the JSA looks awesome, but despite appearances, I imagine there won't be anything to it.  Did anyone see the Aquaman centric episode a little while ago?  It was based on a pretty goofy concept, Aquaman and family taking a cross-country road trip, but despite that, there were several great elements in evidence (and even that kind of goofy concept could totally have worked).  In the very beginning of it, who should show up but The Fisherman, an Aquaman villain not seen on screen since his cartoon from the 60's!  How cool is that, another of Aquaman's rogue's gallery making it onto the screen....but, instead of doing anything interesting with him, they played him up in pure Silver Age fashion, goofy and over the top.  All in all the episode was somewhat entertaining, and there were a few cool moments (the fight with Planet Master was actually pretty neat, but I found myself wondering who this guy was, and why he was attacking a mine....).  Still, as always with this show, it is enough to whet the appetite, but not enough to satisfy.

I think you expect too much of this show Benton. It's first and foremost a kid's show; and a good one at that. And about the goofy stuff...well i enjoy it. the first comic books i read were silver age books, mainly superman and the big 7. It was goofy as hell, but it was fun like no other book. the Brave and the Bold is trying to stay true to it's original material's spirit; and they have a lot of reference to that period of comic book history. My nephew is 5 years old and i get every episode for him, and he loves it. In 3-4 years, when he's "mature" enough, i'll show him some of the timmverse cartoon; but for now it's exactly what he wants to see, and exactly what he needs to be introduce to this world. I leave Batman TAS and the more sophisticated stuff for later

Trelau, you say that I expect too much of it?  I say that you expect too little of it.  I've argued this point several times already, so I'll be brief.  We settle too easily when it comes to our entertainment.  Just because it's a "kid's show" doesn't mean that they can't do something more compelling than slapstick.  When I was a kid I LOVED Batman:TAS, and I appreciate it even more now that I can see all of the depth and complexity.  However, watching a show that didn't pitch itself down to the lowest common denominator actually encouraged me, as a child, to rise up and engage its stories at a higher level.  This show could do the same thing, or could at least do more than it does.  They have told the occasionally interesting story, but mostly they take the easy way out. 

For example, even though I enjoyed "Aquaman's Outrageous Adventure" overall, I remember half a dozen spots where I thought, "what a wasted opportunity!"  They had The Bug-Eyed Bandit fighting The Atom in one split second scene, and I was utterly floored when I realized that this incredibly obscure Atom villain had shown up on TV.  However, instead of doing something interesting with this guy, he's just scenery.  Now, I understand that it was a montage-type episode, but even those focused on a single character don't offer anything approaching development.  I just wish that this show was better.

Not all 1960s comics were campy and over the top, Benton; I know, I was there.

Then main thing is; this show is the decendent of the Batman TV show from the '60s (Check out the Green Arrow team up and the villains escaping from jail, and there ther is False Face).

I aggree that there are a lot of things that could be done with ANY Batman show, but I can't get mad at them for being less creative than I am.

Just so long as they don't team up Batman and Prez, I'll give it some slack.

Episode #32 - Sidekicks Assemble!

Images (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/32sidekicks/)
Clip 1 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/32sidekicks/clip01.mov)
Clip 2 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/32sidekicks/clip02.mov)
Clip 3 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/32sidekicks/clip03.mov)

Ra`s voice is pretty cool.

Quote from: BentonGrey on January 21, 2010, 07:14:53 PMJust because it's a "kid's show" doesn't mean that they can't do something more compelling than slapstick.  When I was a kid I LOVED Batman:TAS, and I appreciate it even more now that I can see all of the depth and complexity.  However, watching a show that didn't pitch itself down to the lowest common denominator actually encouraged me, as a child, to rise up and engage its stories at a higher level.  This show could do the same thing, or could at least do more than it does.  They have told the occasionally interesting story, but mostly they take the easy way out.

Meh, not everything has to be super-serious and "deep". Brave and Bold is meant to be a lighthearted comedy, and does that supremely well. There's plenty of room in the world for both Dostoevsky and The Three Stooges.

Quote from: Midnite on January 23, 2010, 08:44:26 AM
Episode #32 - Sidekicks Assemble!

Images (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/32sidekicks/)
Clip 1 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/32sidekicks/clip01.mov)
Clip 2 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/32sidekicks/clip02.mov)
Clip 3 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/32sidekicks/clip03.mov)

So is this the new Robin or this is a flashback episode?  I'm guessing flashback because they were all shown grown up in season 1

Quote from: daglob on January 22, 2010, 01:21:21 AM
Not all 1960s comics were campy and over the top, Benton; I know, I was there.

Then main thing is; this show is the decendent of the Batman TV show from the '60s (Check out the Green Arrow team up and the villains escaping from jail, and there ther is False Face).

I aggree that there are a lot of things that could be done with ANY Batman show, but I can't get mad at them for being less creative than I am.

Just so long as they don't team up Batman and Prez, I'll give it some slack.

I don't think I made the claim that all 60's comics were "campy and over the top," Daglob, but if what identified comics from the 80's was "grim and gritty," what identified comics from the 60's was camp.  Batman went from detective to alien fighter, after all.  It's a generalization that hold ture in general.  ;)  I may not have lived through the decade, but I have read most of the big books from that time.  Even the great ones (like Avengers) are still somewhat over the top in presentation, although there are, of course, some rather excellent exceptions.  I also was a big fan of the Batman TV show (but a much BIGGER fan of TAS, which illustrates something) from the 60's (in reruns, of course), so I recognize those elements.  I may not enjoy the constant appeals to "intentional camp," but I can understand them.  I just wish that they would err a bit more in the opposite direction.  

Quote from: JKCarrier on January 23, 2010, 02:32:58 PM
Meh, not everything has to be super-serious and "deep". Brave and Bold is meant to be a lighthearted comedy, and does that supremely well. There's plenty of room in the world for both Dostoevsky and The Three Stooges.

I think you've squashed my argument into something as one dimensional as this show usually is, JKC.  Do I want this show to be JLU?  Well...yeah, I do, because I'd have been much happier for JLU to simply continue forever.  Yet, I don't hold it against this show that it ISN'T part of the Timmverse.  No, this show has enough strikes against it on its own to create my ambivalence.  I don't want all of my entertainment to be "super-serious," nor do I expect everything to have the depth of Dostoyevsky.  I like my light-hearted fare.  I love Looney Toons, and I appreciate the need for light entertainment.  What I would like to see though, are shows that have the potential to do something worthwhile actually take advantage of that.  Does every episode of B&B need to have the cinematic weight of, say the "Cadmus" arc of JLU?  No, but I would at least like them to be like "Flash and Substance," fun adventure and some wackiness with at least a bit of actual character development and significance to it.  Forgive the use of JLU as a descriptor, but it's all I have to illustrate my point.  Though, come to think of it, B&B itself has provided another example of what I'm talking about.

The latest episode with the Teen Titans, Robin, Speedy, and Aqualad, was actually the best example I've seen from B&B yet of what I'm looking for.  I enjoyed it wholeheartedly.  It was some light adventure fare, while actually making a few overtures to character development.  The relationships between Robin and Batman, Speedy and GA, and Aqualad and Aquaman all came through, not with incredible depth, but present none the less.  It was a huge thrill for me to see Aqualad animated for the first time since Aquaman's 60's 'toon, and what's more, they actually gave him some personality instead of A) using him as moving scenery (Bug Eyed Bandit), or B) playing him one note and over the top (Fisherman).  The episode was action packed, and even the ridiculous elements were handled well enough that they weren't too jarring (the flying island, cholrocanon), perhaps because they weren't too far off from what we've seen R'as do before.  The minor bit of drama at the end and the introduction of a character that I despise (Nightwing) were actually handled somewhere in the ballpark of tolerably.  Although, Speedy's "Gee Whiz" vocabulary annoyed my wife to no end.

I will say this, many of this shows flaws can be placed squarely at the feet of the voice actors and director.  The voice work (and choice of voice actors) for this show is unbearably bad.  I still hate Batman's voice (it grates on me more each time he opens his mouth, he just sounds so goofy), and the rest of the cast sounds like they're voiced by the same two people.  I know that is the factual case for many animated shows, but it is one that isn't an issue when the cast is actually talented at producing differing voices for different characters.  I'd like some more verbal subtlety from this show...but I imagine that is a forlorn hope.  Anyway, the point is that I do enjoy a lot of elements of the show, but I really want to see these guys up their game.  

Ohh, and I did see that JSA epsidoe.  It was mostly pretty good.  I would really have loved to see Degaton as the more tormented character I've always seen him as, but at least they made him formidable and down-right creepy at times.  It was a pretty solid episode with a telegraphed but not unpleasant bit of characterization.  It was pretty awesome to see Hawkman and Hourman kicking backside.  Too bad we didn't get Sandman too. :D

Clash of the Metal Men! Preview (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/33metalmen/)

Gas gang?  Starroed Atlantis!

A Bat Divided! Preview (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/34divided/)

Bah for lack of classic Firestorm! 

The Gas Gang one was pretty weak.  The animation was cool, and the use of their powers was dynamic, but "eh."  The Starroed Atlantian bit was pretty awesome.  I'm interested to see that develop the same way Equinox did.

The Super-Batman of Planet X! Preview (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/35superbatman/)

Cast
Diedrich Bader as Batman
James Arnold Taylor as Green Arrow/Alpha-Red
Corey Burton as Doc Magnus/Mercury/Zor-Gonn
Marc Worden as Kanjar Ro
Hynden Walch as Platina
Clancy Brown as Rohtul
Dana Delany as Vilsi
Kevin Conroy as Batman 2

I just saw this episode, and it was awesome.
The intro with the metal men was better than the all metal men episode; we have the classic batman from planet X story line mixed with "batman gets superman's powers" story line, giant robots, the cast from the timmverse (luthor-lois-batman)....
That episode had everything. Definitly one of my favorite of this season, with the JSA one and the sidekicks one.

Did this air last weekend and my DVR missed it?   :angry:

Quote from: Panther_Gunn on February 18, 2010, 07:26:27 PM
Did this air last weekend and my DVR missed it?   :angry:

The networks are delaying the episodes until March but I believe that episode was already released to the networks for airing by the time the decision was made.. so a fan at the CN network probably "leaked" the episode since most of us die hard fans were biting at the bit already to see it. I just stumbled across it today in one of my newsgroups.

- CQ

oops, i didn't know the episode hadn't aired; i hope i didn't upset/spoil anyone

Anyone watch Episode 11: Chill of the Night? It was awesome!

Ooooooh yeah.
First a quick word on episode 10: the Power of Shazam. It's intro lets us presage a very good finale with starro. As for the episode, it's an excellent background story for captain marvel (bringing in black adam and shazam in the animated universe, as they should have been in the timmverse)

And now, for the best and worst episode of the serie: Chill of the Night.

I was sold as soon as the words "Written by Paul Dini" appeared. I won't talk about the plot, but i recommend this episode to everybody who loved Batman TAS and thinks The Brave and the Bold is too lighthearted.
This episode is the best episode because the writing is on par with Batman TAS. It's probably the darkest episode this show will ever get.
That's also the reason why it's the worst episode of the serie. It doesn't belong in the "brave and the bold" universe, and the contrast between the usual lighthearted intro and the episode is proof of that. It's a timmverse episode

So this is animated greatness, grab it if you can, and keep it away from your other episodes or they'll run away in fear.

I haven't been watching the series lately (last one I saw was the JSA episode), but let me guess:

Chill of the Night villain = Mr. Freeze? Or Joe Chill?

Ehh...that was pretty good.  I didn't actually think it was all that dark.  Yeah, there is a bit of death in it, but it wasn't really too heavy.  It was better than most of the B&B episodes, but I don't think it is actually that far outside of their median.  There was enough action and over the top bits to tie it right in.  Heh.  Still, it was really cool to see another episode of Batman written by Dini, even if it wasn't his best work ever. 

This show has finally come to China!  It's awesome!  I watched one Ep with my Chinese girlfriend and she loved it too.  Aquaman is awesome!

i like aquamans personality in the series.reminds me of hercules in marvel comics.

I have been watching episodes all day!  It's a great serious.  To be honest IMO it ranks with Batman TAS.

Quote from: thalaw2 on March 28, 2010, 03:58:47 PM
I have been watching episodes all day!  It's a great serious.  To be honest IMO it ranks with Batman TAS.

Really?  You'd rank this series in the same league as Batman:TAS?

 :blink:...Oh, boy... :rolleyes:...here we go again...  :wacko:

Quote from: BentonGrey on March 28, 2010, 05:55:32 PM

Quote from: thalaw2 on March 28, 2010, 03:58:47 PM
I have been watching episodes all day!  It's a great serious.  To be honest IMO it ranks with Batman TAS.

Really?  You'd rank this series in the same league as Batman:TAS?

LOL!  I got a little excited after one episode....so I would have to change my opinion to no.  However, it is a good series that makes me laugh and tells a good story.

[bump] 

RE: Batman of Zul-En-Arr
I really liked this episode.  Some great stunt casting with Delany, Brown, and Conroy.  A great take on the Batman/Superman dynamic from a whole other perspective seasoned with a healthy dose of goofy.

RE: Chill of the Night
I missed "Power of Shazam" so I went online to look for it.  Instead I found this episode.  Written by Dini with Conroy as Phantom Stranger, Mark Hamil as Spectre, Adam West as Thomas Wayne, and Julie Newmar as Martha Wayne and harkens back to B:TAS with a mild supernatural element.  There is very little humor in this episode, the mood is consistently very dark and yet I thought it worked really well. 

Overall, I'm enjoying season two more than season one. It's a very different take than B:TAS, but I think now the writers have a handle on the mood and it's really clicking now.

Really liked the power of Shazam...Except for the voice of Captain Marvel. He is such a generic voice actor. Still, he fit well so alls well that ends well.

When does season 3 start in the US?  I'm going to miss this series when it's gone!

Its not TAS but its a fun show really. I dont watch it regularly, just reruns on CN when I have time.

`Chill of the night` is a really dark episode and it deals with something never done in Batman animation, really good episode.
I also liked `Mayhem of the Music Meister` surprisingly good for a musical episode, NPH was great as the villain (`Drives us Bats` is an awesome song :thumbup:)

Was cruisin' around alittle and found this interesting tid bit of news, Henry Rollins (former lead singer of Black Flag) may be doing the voice of Robot Man of the Doom Patrol on Batman Brave and the Bold:  http://mygreatestadventure80.blogspot.com/2009/10/robotman-on-batman-brave-bold.html

If that's true, that totally kicks butt!!!!

Quote from: docdelorean88 on April 06, 2010, 04:37:28 AM
Really liked the power of Shazam...Except for the voice of Captain Marvel. He is such a generic voice actor. Still, he fit well so alls well that ends well.

And that is one of the biggest problems with this show.  Even though I've enjoyed a lot of episodes, the bulk of the voice actors are just so generically....cartoonish.  There is very little substance to any of their performances.

I suppose I am somewhat sad to see this leave the air, if only because I got to see Aquaman using super strength and being awesome with semi-regularity, even if he was given an annoying personality.  If they were to replace with with something better....I'd be all for it, but since it is going off in favor of the new Teen Titans show...meh.  I like the Titans, but this thing hasn't caught my interest yet....probably because it is obviously so modern in its sensibilities.

Quote from: BentonGrey on September 01, 2010, 08:35:59 PM

Quote from: docdelorean88 on April 06, 2010, 04:37:28 AM
Really liked the power of Shazam...Except for the voice of Captain Marvel. He is such a generic voice actor. Still, he fit well so alls well that ends well.

And that is one of the biggest problems with this show.  Even though I've enjoyed a lot of episodes, the bulk of the voice actors are just so generically....cartoonish.  There is very little substance to any of their performances.

I suppose I am somewhat sad to see this leave the air, if only because I got to see Aquaman using super strength and being awesome with semi-regularity, even if he was given an annoying personality.  If they were to replace with with something better....I'd be all for it, but since it is going off in favor of the new Teen Titans show...meh.  I like the Titans, but this thing hasn't caught my interest yet....probably because it is obviously so modern in its sensibilities.

Are you talking about Young Justice?  I didn't realize that YJ is the reason that BMB&TB is leaving.  If that is so, then I don't feel so bad.  Young Justice has real potential as the guy that directed Spectacular Spider-man is directing it AND Peter David (the original writer of the YJ comic and all around awesome veteran writer) will actually be writing some of the episodes!

Quote from: Dr.Volt on September 01, 2010, 05:19:49 PM
Was cruisin' around alittle and found this interesting tid bit of news, Henry Rollins (former lead singer of Black Flag) may be doing the voice of Robot Man of the Doom Patrol on Batman Brave and the Bold:  http://mygreatestadventure80.blogspot.com/2009/10/robotman-on-batman-brave-bold.html

If that's true, that totally kicks butt!!!!

I dunno. The one or two (admittedly not very good) stills I've seen make me wonder if Cliff's last name is supposed to be Grim, not Steel.

And I'm still annoyed about The Outsiders Jr. plus the Incredible Hulking Metamorpho.

Quote from: daglob on September 02, 2010, 03:16:14 AM

Quote from: Dr.Volt on September 01, 2010, 05:19:49 PM
Was cruisin' around alittle and found this interesting tid bit of news, Henry Rollins (former lead singer of Black Flag) may be doing the voice of Robot Man of the Doom Patrol on Batman Brave and the Bold:  http://mygreatestadventure80.blogspot.com/2009/10/robotman-on-batman-brave-bold.html

If that's true, that totally kicks butt!!!!

I dunno. The one or two (admittedly not very good) stills I've seen make me wonder if Cliff's last name is supposed to be Grim, not Steel.

And I'm still annoyed about The Outsiders Jr. plus the Incredible Hulking Metamorpho.

Really?  There are stills out there.  I'm going to go searching in a sec.  But, yeah, I understand your points.  The Outsiders left much to be desired.  But I just think it's cool that they are willing to give the Doom Patrol some love.  That doesn't happen that often.  I just hope they don't mess them up too badly.

Oh, I'll watch the episode alright. The DP has always been my favorite group.

Quote from: daglob on September 02, 2010, 02:18:23 PM
The DP has always been my favorite group.

As long as your girl and your buddy and you are all enjoying it...     :P

*smacks Kenn around with a wet poodle*

Bad Kenn!  No donut!   :angry:

 :blink:

Yes...thank you, Kenn.

Btw, only found pics of the DP from the Batman Brave and the Bold comic book (based on the animated series):  http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Batman:_The_Brave_and_The_Bold_Vol_1_7 (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Batman:_The_Brave_and_The_Bold_Vol_1_7)

Gail Simone + Birds of Prey + music = Youtube clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAFP0IoMfsA)

Quote from: Previsionary on September 26, 2010, 02:24:23 AM
Gail Simone + Birds of Prey + music = Youtube clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAFP0IoMfsA)

After watching that , it just make me love that style of animation.  The females look so sexy yet classy.  Almost like the girls you see on the side of planes in the military.

Holy innuendo batman!
The flash is too fast, green arrow might not shoot straight...come on, how did this pass censorship?
I also love the Charlie's Angels reference, but damn that tune is catchy.

How would everyone feel about B&B doing a crossover with the new scooby doo cartoon a la Scooby Doo Meets Batman & Robin from "The New Scooby Doo Movies" era?

I WOULD LOVE THAT! That being said it would probably be a terrible train wreck, but i still love the original crossovers, so why not!

Isn't Scooby supposed to be appearing in a future ep?

Plague of the Prototypes! Images and Preview (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=886)

Darkseid Descending! (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/guides/reviews/50darkseid/)

Am I one of the few still watching this?  I was a little surprised to see new episodes on my DVR (thought last season was the end), and even more surprised no one has commented on the Wonder Woman appearance.  I thought it was pretty cool that her theme music was pretty much pulled straight from the old TV series.  And the characterization of Steve seemed like it was pulled straight from there as well.  I especially liked Bats' line at the end of the segment.

The time travel in the most recent episode was a little on the weak side, to me.  I thought they could have chosen better Batmen to "rescue".  Did any of these other versions make appearances in the comics?  I seem to recall the robot one, but don't know from where.

I also didn't recognize the villains from either of the intro segments.  Were they particular to the other heroes?

The Wonder Woman villainess was one of Wondy's World War II foes who's occasionally popped up since.  That bit was just dripping with awesome. :D

Don't know who the bug from the latest episode was (and my DVR cut in late so I missed his name).

The Batmen of history... two of them (Bat Caveman, and Pirate Batman) look an awful lot like Batman's incarnation when he was careening through time after Darkseid supposedly killed him during Grant Morrison's tenure (the others BTW were puritan witchhunter, cowboy, and 20's or possible 30's detective - kinda wish they'd used those as well).  I agree, episode was okay, but not great.  The whole "future affecting the past" thing just didn't work for me, unless that Bat robot has some comic history I'm unaware of.  However, what almost made up for it...

Aquaman: I got to beat up romans! 
:thumbup:

I saw someone mention Scooby and he did appear in the Batmite episode. So many little touches made this great - one of the original episodes (the one with the house that turned upside down) had a mis-animated scene where Batman points at the villian with a bare arm with a strange ring on his finger and they recreated that. I loved Batmite changing the laws of the episode and having Scooby and Shaggy beat the tar out of Penguin and Joker.

Quote from: Randomdays on September 30, 2011, 04:29:59 AM
I saw someone mention Scooby and he did appear in the Batmite episode. So many little touches made this great - one of the origianl episodes (the one with the house that turned upside down) had a mis-animated scene where Batman points at the villian with a bare arm with a strange ring on his finger and they recreated that. I loved Batmite changing the laws of the episode and having Scooby and Shaggy beat the tar out of Penguin and Joker.

loved that episode. alos realy liked the episode with star sapphire, one of my favorites so far.

The only episodes I've seen are the Doom Patrol ep (it was pretty great) and the one where Bat's is bitten by a vampire...But this show seems to be rooftop leaps better than The Batman series (and it seems to be on the level of Batman: TAS and Justice League in it''s awesome-ness IMHO).

Dana

Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on September 30, 2011, 05:46:27 PM
The only episodes I've seen are the Doom Patrol ep (it was pretty great) and the one where Bat's is bitten by a vampire...But this show seems to be rooftop leaps better than The Batman series (and it seems to be on the level of Batman: TAS and Justice League in it''s awesome-ness IMHO).

Dana

Dana....Dana....and here I had gotten to thinking that you had good taste!  Ha, Brave and Bold might be fun and occassionally clever, but it is nowhere NEAR the level of Batman: TAS! :P

Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on September 30, 2011, 05:46:27 PM
... rooftop leaps better than The Batman series (and it seems to be on the level of Batman: TAS and Justice League in it''s awesome-ness IMHO).

Dana

No. No. Dana... just no. The show might be slightly better than The Batman at points(though I still contend that later seasons of The Batman were better than most of what I've seen from B&B), but it is not, nor shall ever ever EVER be on the same level as TAS, and saying otherwise is an abomination and worthy of facial stabbing.

If you want to watch a real effing DC show, watch Young Justice. 9,001 times better.

Quote from: Tomato on September 30, 2011, 08:23:54 PM

Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on September 30, 2011, 05:46:27 PM
... rooftop leaps better than The Batman series (and it seems to be on the level of Batman: TAS and Justice League in it''s awesome-ness IMHO).

Dana

No. No. Dana... just no. The show might be slightly better than The Batman at points(though I still contend that later seasons of The Batman were better than most of what I've seen from B&B), but it is not, nor shall ever ever EVER be on the same level as TAS, and saying otherwise is an abomination and worthy of facial stabbing.

If you want to watch a real effing DC show, watch Young Justice. 9,001 times better.

Yeah, it is definitely a better show.

People have different tastes, guys.
I think B&B it's a lot better than "The Batman", and I find it easy, because "The Batman" was just terrible IMHO.
BTAS was a take on the Bronze and Modern Age mythology, while B&B plays with the Silver Age, it's less "serious", but it's fun. I read somewhere the producers wanted to do something like "Adam West with jimmies" and they did it.
I grown up with the 60's funny Batman (here in Brazil we got a lot of 60's stories in the 70's), so B&B's version is like an old friend.

Indeed. I grew up on Superfriends, Shazam live action series, George Reeves Superman re-runs, Voltron, Transformers (all the 80's shows that came on after school & Saturday a.m.), & finally Ruby Spears Superman...& then TV superheroes went by the wayside. I picked up again when my son was of age & just as they canned JLU...so I never really caught the wave w/ either Superman or Batman TAS. So I watched all the Justice League & JLU episodes, then watched the 5th season of The Batman as it came out, & loved it because I was missing JLU so much...and Batman wasn't so sullen all the time...better for kids that way...& Robin & Batgirl were hilarious. So, yes, to each his owneth. But I'm well aware that Batman TAS has a following all its own. Don't mess w/ Texas...er, no...don't mess w/ TAS  :)

I think the best episodes of BTAS are better than the best episodes of B&B. But BTAS could be really uneven; we tend to remember the really good episodes, and forget the clunkers like "I've Got Batman in My Basement" or "Tyger, Tyger". B&B has been more consistent, I think...maybe not works of genius (although those Bat-Mite episodes are pretty amazing), but never less than entertaining.

Aquaman in a musical number? Sorry Benton, this episode kind of fell flat for me.

Quote from: Cyber Burn on October 01, 2011, 01:29:33 PM
Aquaman in a musical number? Sorry Benton, this episode kind of fell flat for me.

Really?!  I thought it was funny.  That's one thing I like about this one, it's campy, but not too corny.  Aquaman is one of the better heroes in the show.

Final episode has aired. What did you guys think? It was a very self aware, fun episode me thinks. It poked some fun at the people who wanted a darker Batman show, the campyness of its own universe, and even mocked Aquaman's breakout fan fave role. :P

Benton, Tomato...I said "it seems", did I not?  :P

Dana

Bummed out the series is ending since I just started watching it. 

Seemed like weird episode with all the comments at the end.

Ok, so, while waiting for the updates to finish on DCUO (finally gonna pick it up again, a friend of mine is starting to play) I went ahead and watched the last episode, as I'd heard a lot about it.

Now, the Lord only knows I hated this series while it was airing. Unlike some of you who grew up on Adam West Batman and with the more campy Batman, my batman growing up was always TAS... in other words, serious Batman. Granted, I've gone back and watched the Adam West stuff and enjoyed it reasonably well, but to me it was always something outdated and childish. As far as I was concerned, we'd moved beyond that... and then Brave and Bold shows up and starts beating me over the head with joke-Batman. And after sitting through a full season of it, the resent and irritation that this nonsense had replaced MY Batman caused me to more or less froth at the mouth every time someone mentioned it to me.

That said... while I cannot in good faith say that I have come to love or even like this series in any capacity... I also acknowledge that I am not it's target audience, and probably won't ever be. However, now that I've watched the finale, I have come to respect this show. It was an excellent send off, and regardless of how little I liked the rest of the show, the finale was well worth watching.

I dunno...It seemed like a fun show and I have no issue with a Batman show (or even Batman himself) having a sense of humor (or being a bit "out there").  The Silver Age Batman comics were pretty much "out there" and didn't really seem to take themselves seriously.  Comics are meant to be fun.

I am not a Batman fan, yet I found myself enjoying Batman TAS immensely, the same is true for the Justice League (both had their own senses of humor).  I personally find most DC characters extremely uninteresting and dull, but both of those cartoons made the characters palatable for me somehow.  When I first heard about the Batman BAB series, I thought, "Oh gawd...It's campy?".  I instantly thought of the 60s Batman (which I don't care for)...But watching those two episodes (and I certainly don't claim to be well-versed in the series) changed my mind, the series was a whole different animal.

Dana