Continuing the thread archived at http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=42125.0
Tell us what you'd like to see in upcoming releases of FFX 3 (http://ffx.freedomforceforever.com/)! :cool:
Howdy Ep! I just thought I'd note that my biggest request for a new version of FFX would be thrown knockback. Also, an ability that would allow you to either A) immediately change the AI of all civilians on a map into cops, or B) summon all of the cops on a map to do your bidding. I'm thinking about Aquaman being able to call in his finny friends, but being limited in who is nearby.
I'm not sure if this has been done but like in summoner instead of summoning a bunch of minions, how about a whole team! A group with different meshes and powers being summoned. :huh:
Well, I doubt you can do it but what I'd love more than anything else....
For animations like take_flight and land_from_flight to actually work :(
I think that is semi do-able now, at least to some extent. You can't tie it directly to damage, but you can set up accidental change to switch to another character/mesh. I use it for Juggernaut, when his helmet is knocked off.
Ahh...interesting IPS, very interesting. I don't know if it would be do-able, though.
Benton:
– Thrown KB: I had an early look at it and it appeared much, much harder than I first thought. But yes, this would be a very good thing.
– AI: I'll just defer to any other FFX team member, as I know too little on the subject.
Champion: Noted. There should be a straightforward way of doing this.
Vertex: Sadly, I really don't see how it could be done, except for a specific scripted sequence (i.e, using different meshes with different jump animations)
IPS: Apart from using Accidental Change (or Russian Doll), I dont think it's possible. The only possible hope is using the undocumented loadChars() function, and it is not supposed to work with customs, campaign mode or template attributes, plus it behaves weirdly. Hum...´could we use FXes instead?
Russian Doll.......hmm...that'd be a much better way to handle that, giving you actual control over their hitpoints. Well, I am keeping hope alive for the KB issue!
Quote from: Epimethee on December 23, 2008, 08:21:56 PM
IPS: Apart from using Accidental Change (or Russian Doll), I dont think it's possible. The only possible hope is using the undocumented loadChars() function, and it is not supposed to work with customs, campaign mode or template attributes, plus it behaves weirdly. Hum...´could we use FXes instead?
What if you did it an FFX plug in that cheats it a little and sort of recreates Russian Doll but on a universal scale..
Have the plugin register all the heroes for a specific damage level, then when that happens trigger a function that looks to see if there is "damaged_<charname>" template or something like that -- some kind of agreed naming scheme. If it exists, swap the character out, if not, just ignore it. The advantage over russian doll is that it works universally for all characters all the time (like IPS said), not a case by case basis that needs to be set up. It still means having to create a seperate character for the damage and not near as clean as just being able to change skins....
As for my own request... well its not mine, but someone requested it before. Having some kind of Team attribute. where you select a "character" that is assigned up to 6 teammates. So instead o putting together your JLA team from scratch on the character selection screen, you select the JLA character, and the game starts by loading up those members assigned to that team. Kind of an offshoot of private army. I have an FFX plugin that does this, but it's rough and I'm having some AI issues... but I think its somewhat doable.
Quote from: GogglesPizanno on December 23, 2008, 08:35:35 PMHaving some kind of Team attribute. where you select a "character" that is assigned up to 6 teammates. So instead o putting together your JLA team from scratch on the character selection screen, you select the JLA character, and the game starts by loading up those members assigned to that team. Kind of an offshoot of private army. I have an FFX plugin that does this, but it's rough and I'm having some AI issues... but I think its somewhat doable.
:thumbup:
It would be very helpful for me to have an attribute like that - I'm using Private Army but I end up with some duplicates - requires a lot of suspension of disbelief. It would solve my multiple nemeses problem where I try to get all the main villains from Flash's Rogues Gallery to appear at once in the middle of a mission.
Quote1) Accidental Change with multiple forms each related to a different state. Now that I think about it, a percent chance of changing into one of several forms with the same trigger would be cool too.
2) Limited shapeshifter requiring a hero point or maybe a token system of some kind (charges? cans of spinach?)
3) Dependant - a character you have to protect from harm/KO (Jimmy Olsen, Aunt May, Scrappy Doo, etc.) that has a percent chance of showing up during a mission (like nemesis)
4) Grades of Vulnerability - grade 2 has 2 vulnerabilities, grade 3 has 3 vulnerabilities, etc.
Quote from: ips on December 23, 2008, 08:12:56 PM
just imagine... aquaman is gettin the snot beaten out of him... his tights tear and scales fall out of his armour.... gets all bruised... how cool would that be to see in game? and all your other characters at the same time...
Oh sure it would be cool...but then we skinners would have to make "battle damaged" versions of all our skins! Thanks for doubling my skinning work load! :P
What work load?
;)
The battle damaged skin stuff would take heaps of work however you tried to set it up.
You'd either need to create a template for the damaged character, or look for a hero file of a procedural name eg Aquaman searches for "aquaman(damaged)" when he hits 25% health.
This does have the bonus that you could downgrade powers, say if Iron Mans armour is fritzing out, but then again, negative feedback loops make bad gameplay. If you're losing, its no fun to make things even harder.
You'd need to do it by switching characters just like shapechanging - theres no way to swap a texture around on the fly. I remember the trouble I had getting the Spider's costume to change in between missions, let alone during a mission. That always introduces a whole host of problems. Any primary or secondary states dissappear as soon as Aquaman's pants fall off, if the characters moving from A to B they'll stop. Any AI attacking them will pause, and mission objectives have a chance of messing up.
So while its a nice idea its one of those thats incredibly hard to implement in the game.
Getting Summoner or Private Army to summon a random selection from a group of uniques would be a piece of cake, however.
One thing i like about built ins is that you can set the radius of the character so the computer knows how much space it occupies. Would there be a way to make this available for non-buitl in characters. At least the Abomination wouldn't run down narrow alleys that way. At least i don't think he would.
Quote from: Courtnall6 on December 23, 2008, 10:54:31 PMOh sure it would be cool...but then we skinners would have to make "battle damaged" versions of all our skins! Thanks for doubling my skinning work load! :P
Quote from: GogglesPizanno on December 23, 2008, 11:20:00 PM
What work load?
;)
:lol: Now that was funny!!!
Oh I better shut up! :huh:
Non-random private army is what I'm after so I can have Captain Boomerang accompanied by only one each of the other Rogues.
Btw, weren't you so-called champions supposed to making yourselves known like 2 months ago?
Quote from: yell0w_lantern on December 24, 2008, 05:28:42 PMBtw, weren't you so-called champions supposed to making yourselves known like 2 months ago?
:blink:
Awkward moment saved by QUEEN!
Weeeeeee are the champions, my frieeeends...
you missed it: Champions was last Saturday. I won't run another game until after the first of the year.
Is there a way to add some of the newer customizable features into the control center? I've still never been able to get grapple to work, and that's no fault of Taskmaster Xs, just my inability to manipulate the code.
I'd like to see obstacle navigation be more effective. Espeically the movement around/over buildings.
If thrown-knocback can be done, it will be freakin' amazing.
I have a request, as well. I wish it would be possible to customize a power's state swap individually for hero files, just like it can be done for built-ins.
In case it's not clear, I wish that you could, for an hero file, choose an individual power, set a state swap for it of, say, stun to magnetise, and have only that one power inflict the magnetise effect, while other powers that have a chance of inflicting stun would still inflict stun normally.
Xenolith:
– FFXCC customization: not currently doable, sorry.
– Obstacle navigation: my knowledge of the AI systems (built-in and M25's) is very weak, but the biggest issues are probably the two following limitations in the game engine: Primo, no feedback from the AI pathfinding. Secundo, no information about object dimensions.
Blizgott: Can't be done, as hero file-based characters don't have unique power IDs.
the non-random private army (also able to only select one version of each model) would be a real boon.
Currently the "Summon Rain" command 'power nulls' characters made of fire (and those in the fireTemplates list), but is it possible to make a list of characters for whom it's even more detrimental? Like actually reduces their health, or energy regen rate (or something) on top of the other penalties.
I ask because I was just adding some tweaks to Sandman, and it would have been cool if the water had a greater effect on him than others.
Then again, I'm just getting back into :ffvstr: after a short while, is this possible already?.
Would you say it would just be simpler for me to put sandman (and others) in the fireTemplates list in the Control code in ffx.py instead?
Quote from: The Nemesis on December 31, 2008, 07:06:24 AM
Currently the "Summon Rain" command 'power nulls' characters made of fire (and those in the fireTemplates list), but is it possible to make a list of characters for whom it's even more detrimental? Like actually reduces their health, or energy regen rate (or something) on top of the other penalties.
I ask because I was just adding some tweaks to Sandman, and it would have been cool if the water had a greater effect on him than others.
Then again, I'm just getting back into :ffvstr: after a short while, is this possible already?.
Would you say it would just be simpler for me to put sandman (and others) in the fireTemplates list in the Control code in ffx.py instead?
And how about electrical characters? They should be affected somewhat, right?
I was thinking of something the other day... I know there's some sort of stealth that, while I don't recall 100%, turns you somewhat undetectable unless you are in line of sight or using powers too close to somebody? Am I remembering this wrong? Anyhow, I was wondering if this could get customization to become a sort of "sneak" attribute that is able to turn on and off. It could turn your character invisible or not, and could play a different animation.
For a specific example, I want to make a character who has a "sneak" attribute that forces him to walk slower and use his walk animation, and now he's less likely to be detected by enemies, unless they are looking right at him, or he attacks or something. If they do see him the sneak ability is dropped and he resumes being a normal character, until he gets far enough away to reactivate it, IE: no enemies chasing him. Is this at all possible through FFX or would it be too complex? Is it even possible in a self contained mod of some sort?
I didn't realize that there was a fireTemplates list in ffx.py; it ought to be moved in ffxextras.py. I should also change the ffq_firehydrant plugin accordingly.
Instead of adding customization code in the Weather Control attribute itself, I'd probably have the attribute throw an event (alert) when a character gets wet. Mission-specific scripts or other attributes such as Vulnerability could then use this easily.
Here I be with a request for FFX...
1st is there a comprehensive list of what attributes and powers call for what animations? (It would seriously help me (and others) figure out what to include for animations in our sets.
2nd. I wish this had been done originally when FFX started up but would it be possible to say... redo some assignments for animations so we can put the right animations with the right attributes and powers.
For instance I noticed last night using a tk attribute that it used ranged and throw_object animations. While I could certainly set up the first ranged attack to look proper for that attribute I'm sure another attribute or power might use the same anim and look nuts, while if I set throw_object anim to look like a psychic toss anim.. it would then make it look stupid when the character might actually pick something up. If it could be set up for attributes to call out animations made just for them.. it would make things a lot more adaptable. I really wish when all this stuff had been setup it had been put out as a list of what needed what.. so all these sets that exist now.. could already have animations set up for them. Since this would be done so "post production" I'd even be willing to make up some male_basic and female_basic animations that hexers could stick into existing sets making things work much better all around for everybody.
QuoteI wish this had been done originally when FFX started up but would it be possible to say... redo some assignments for animations so we can put the right animations with the right attributes and powers.
Since some of the FFX attributes have the ability to specify animations by typing it in (Enhanced Senses comes to mind), how possible would it be to add that animation option to all attributes that play back an animation, but set the attribute default to whatever it is currently hard coded for now?
By doing it that way, all the animations that are currently set would stay as the initial setup, but it would allow people to manually set a new one for specific characters that have an enhanced animations.
Quote from: Vertex on December 31, 2008, 10:02:10 PM1st is there a comprehensive list of what attributes and powers call for what animations? (It would seriously help me (and others) figure out what to include for animations in our sets.
Here is the result from a quick script to parse ffx.py v.3.3 for attribs with animations. It's not going to be perfect (in fact I haven't even checked it at all), but it's a starting point:
summoner
AI_Animate(name,anim)
ffactivedefense50
AI_Animate(char,'lock')
AI_Animate(source, 'unlock')
AI_Animate(source, 'melee_idle')
absorptiona
AI_Animate(char,'area','OnActiveFeedback2')
explosive
AI_Animate(hero,getByTemplate(hero,FFX_EXPLODE_CUSTOM,1),'OnExplode2')
ffqfastball
AI_Animate(thrower, 'pick_up_object', 'OnFastBallPicked', 1, 0)#user = 1 for smash, 2 for lob
AI_Animate(thrower, 'pick_up_object', 'OnFastBallPicked', 2, 0)#user = 1 for smash, 2 for lob
AI_Animate(char, 'jump_stand', '', 0, 1)
AI_Animate(thrower, 'throw_object')
amplifier
AI_Animate(user,'ranged')
ffqlongjumper
AI_Animate(char,'jump_stand','OnFFQjumpHigh',0,1)
AI_Animate(char,'jump_stand','OnFFQjumpLow',0,1)
AI_Animate(char,'jump_stand','OnFFQjumpFar',0,1)
kamikaze
AI_Animate(char,animation,'OnKKExplode')
twister
AI_Animate(char,'fall')
privatearmy
AI_Animate(name,t)
astral
AI_Animate(char,getByTemplate(char,FFX_ASTRALFORM_CUSTOM,3),'OnReleaseAstral2')
spellcaster
AI_Animate(char,getByTemplate(char,FFX_SPELLCASTER_CUSTOM,1),'OnSpellComplete')
ffqrealitymaniporder
AI_Animate(char, cmdChaos, 'OnFFQRealityChaos2')
freespirit
AI_Animate(char,getByTemplate(char,FFX_FREESPIRIT_CUSTOM,2),'OnReleaseSpirit2')
AI_Animate(char,getByTemplate(char,FFX_FREESPIRIT_CUSTOM,2),'OnReleaseSpirit2')QuoteSince some of the FFX attributes have the ability to specify animations by typing it in (Enhanced Senses comes to mind), how possible would it be to add that animation option to all attributes that play back an animation, but set the attribute default to whatever it is currently hard coded for now?
For attributes without any customization whatsoever in the FFX Control Centre, that wouldn't be a problem – we'd just need to add an entry in ffxcustom2.py (wouldn't be accessible through the FFX CC however, since it has reached its max number of attributes). The problem would be for attributes with existing configuration options, as this would not be backward-compatible. (We need to replace the list-based system by dictionaries or object attributes – but of course, that would completely break compatibility.)
> could you elaborate a bit on this part please?
The issue would occur when some of the FFX end-users have an older version of the customization.
Let's say the old version of the attribute has the following format:
["default", "naturalise", "effect_ffx_chaosmagic"]
The user (let's call him Prev – because it's always HIS fault, anyway) has the following customization:
["bob", "naturalise", "effect_ffx_density"]
The new version of the attribute has the following format:
["default", "naturalise", "effect_ffx_chaosmagic", "new stuff"]
The customization system is using the Python list type (i.e., items betweens brackets separated by commas ["a", "b", c"]), where elements are identified by their order within the list. When the code requests the customization entry for the fourth item (default value: "new stuff"), since it doesn't exist in Prev's old customization, the code breaks. Of course, we can limit the problem by then using the default value, but this won't work for every case (FFX CC, or major attribute customization change).
Using a different Python type, the dictionary, would have helped (easy to say in hindsight, much harder to guess at the time the system was designed), as only the elements differing from the default need to be stored. In dictionaries, items are identified by name, not position:
"default": {"scheme": "naturalise", "fx": "effect_ffx_chaosmagic", "something": "new stuff"}
Thus, Prev's old customization would work out of the box for most cases:
"bob": {"fx": "effect_ffx_density"}
Another Python type, the object, would give the same benefits:
default.scheme = "naturalise"
default.fx = "effect_ffx_chaosmagic"
default.something = "new stuff"
bob.fx = "effect_ffx_density"
Quote from: Vertex on December 31, 2008, 10:02:10 PM
Here I be with a request for FFX...
1st is there a comprehensive list of what attributes and powers call for what animations? (It would seriously help me (and others) figure out what to include for animations in our sets.
2nd. I wish this had been done originally when FFX started up but would it be possible to say... redo some assignments for animations so we can put the right animations with the right attributes and powers.
For instance I noticed last night using a tk attribute that it used ranged and throw_object animations. While I could certainly set up the first ranged attack to look proper for that attribute I'm sure another attribute or power might use the same anim and look nuts, while if I set throw_object anim to look like a psychic toss anim.. it would then make it look stupid when the character might actually pick something up. If it could be set up for attributes to call out animations made just for them.. it would make things a lot more adaptable. I really wish when all this stuff had been setup it had been put out as a list of what needed what.. so all these sets that exist now.. could already have animations set up for them. Since this would be done so "post production" I'd even be willing to make up some male_basic and female_basic animations that hexers could stick into existing sets making things work much better all around for everybody.
I'm not sure if I'm following this correctly. Most FFX attributes were made to use common animation names, but also have the ability to use dummy powers, created in FFEdit, that use any animation. So, those attribs that use dummy powers can already use any animation regardless of the name of the animation. So, meshers can create tk_pickup or tk_throw animations, along with any other unique, FFX attribute-specific animations and they can be used by creating a dummy power using that animation and select that dummy power in FFXCC.
There are some attributes (and some events) in FFX that use specific animations. The code would just need to be updated to use a new animation or to be customizable so players can choose any animation. One animation that comes to mind is the 'swing_pole' animation that is used for breaking free of things. If a new animation was made, it'd be a simple process of changing the animation name in the code and I think M25 wrote a function that can read a keyframe file and check if the new animation exists and if not, then use the 'swing_pole' animation. Or, maybe we could do something like the Crystal Template, Transmute Type, Teleport FX, Object Template, Object FX, and Explosion Power that is displayed for each character in FFXCC. We could add a Break Free Animation which would allow it to be customizable. It would have to be in ffxcustom2.py or remove one of the least used to allow it to be customized in FFXCC.
I had made a request a while back for some 'grapple' animations, here:
http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=48049.0
The grapple swap could really use them.
Quote from: TaskMasterX on January 05, 2009, 04:25:10 PM
I'm not sure if I'm following this correctly. Most FFX attributes were made to use common animation names, but also have the ability to use dummy powers, created in FFEdit, that use any animation. So, those attribs that use dummy powers can already use any animation regardless of the name of the animation. So, meshers can create tk_pickup or tk_throw animations, along with any other unique, FFX attribute-specific animations and they can be used by creating a dummy power using that animation and select that dummy power in FFXCC.
There are some attributes (and some events) in FFX that use specific animations. The code would just need to be updated to use a new animation or to be customizable so players can choose any animation. One animation that comes to mind is the 'swing_pole' animation that is used for breaking free of things. If a new animation was made, it'd be a simple process of changing the animation name in the code and I think M25 wrote a function that can read a keyframe file and check if the new animation exists and if not, then use the 'swing_pole' animation. Or, maybe we could do something like the Crystal Template, Transmute Type, Teleport FX, Object Template, Object FX, and Explosion Power that is displayed for each character in FFXCC. We could add a Break Free Animation which would allow it to be customizable. It would have to be in ffxcustom2.py or remove one of the least used to allow it to be customized in FFXCC.
I had made a request a while back for some 'grapple' animations, here:
http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=48049.0
The grapple swap could really use them.
Okay I think I see our little problem....
1st. You know which ones are truly hard coded and which ones aren't.. I don't
2nd. You're saying "most" can be changed in ffedit if you build your character there instead of ingame, to which I say boy would it be nice not to have to build every character that has FFX attributes outside of the game. ( I might be misunderstanding this part)
3rd. I'm saying "hey tell me what you want them named and what you want and I"ll make it" and you're saying "hey you make it and name it and we'll probably put that in sometime" to which I say.. refer to 1st point.
I think we're fairly on the same page but at a standstill of sorts :(
Quote1st. You know which ones are truly hard coded and which ones aren't.. I don't
This is a fine point. This is what I believe Empithee was explaining about compatibility. They can either be hard coded with a new animation name and hope that all the characters have this new animation, or they can make it user editable (which was my idea) but that breaks compatibility.
Quote2nd. You're saying "most" can be changed in ffedit if you build your character there instead of in-game, to which I say boy would it be nice not to have to build every character that has FFX attributes outside of the game. ( I might be misunderstanding this part)
I think you are a little off. If you open up FFedit and look at the powers tab, there is a whole list of ffx_* powers. Each one of those is assigned an animation. I believe he is saying that if say the animation for "ffx_earth_lift" just isn't your cup of tea, you can change the animation for it (this would apply to ALL characters when they use that power -- so again, its an issue of making sure that character in question actually has the new animation).
If you didn't want to chage that power for everyone, you could copy it in FFEdit, rename it something new like "ffx_earth_lift_vertex" and change the animation for this new power. When you are customizing a character in the FFX control center, you can then assign that new power as the dummy power to a character that does have that animation. So you aren;t having to create all your characters in FFEdit, you are just creating new dummy powers with the animations you want, and then assigning those dummy powers to characters in the control center.
Quote3rd. I'm saying "hey tell me what you want them named and what you want and I"ll make it" and you're saying "hey you make it and name it and we'll probably put that in sometime" to which I say.. refer to 1st point.
Thats the inherent problem with this idea, is that its a simple but big undertaking that kind of affects all these little things and can get bogged down. I believe using Point 2 above, you can start doing some of the animation ideas you have for a good portion of FFX stuff... some of the more difficult ones that are hard coded or have compatibility issues, would probably have to be put on the back burner as it would be a pretty radical departure that may do more harm than good (at least for the work and potential issues involved). At least thats how i see it based on this discussion -- as always I may be missing something.
IPS is right in his thinking.
But it still runs into a brick wall of sorts.
You cant suddenly make the "default" animation for an FFX power something that ONLY appears in Vertex's new meshes, as that suddenly breaks the animation for the thousands of previous meshes that don't have it (unless someone wants to go in and make changes to all the existing .kf files in use). I agree that coming up with some kind of naming scheme for any potential new animations is a good idea for future stuff, but it doesn't help the inherent problem of compatibility with existing assets.
So while giving Vertex an "official" name for his new animations for say tk_lift would be great for those people from here on out who want to take advantage of it, it still relies on people making the changes themselves and editing the FFX powers on their own, because this new setup is not compatible with existing stuff (as Empithee indicated).
So whether the FFX team comes up with a naming scheme, or Vertex makes up his own naming scheme, is really just an issue of organization, as the actual implementation for people will still have to be the old way with existing "standard" animations continuing to be default to insure that it works for everyone.
Quote from: GogglesPizanno on January 05, 2009, 09:14:11 PM
IPS is right in his thinking.
But it still runs into a brick wall of sorts.
You cant suddenly make the "default" animation for an FFX power something that ONLY appears in Vertex's new meshes, as that suddenly breaks the animation for the thousands of previous meshes that don't have it (unless someone wants to go in and make changes to all the existing .kf files in use). I agree that coming up with some kind of naming scheme for any potential new animations is a good idea for future stuff, but it doesn't help the inherent problem of compatibility with existing assets.
So while giving Vertex an "official" name for his new animations for say tk_lift would be great for those people from here on out who want to take advantage of it, it still relies on people making the changes themselves and editing the FFX powers on their own, because this new setup is not compatible with existing stuff (as Empithee indicated).
So whether the FFX team comes up with a naming scheme, or Vertex makes up his own naming scheme, is really just an issue of organization, as the actual implementation for people will still have to be the old way with existing "standard" animations continuing to be default to insure that it works for everyone.
ummmm you kinda missed my original post's point in a way. I WILL MAKE ANY ANIMS NEEDED TO BE ADDED TO ANY EXISTING SETS. This would include mean I would make male_basic, female_basic, whatever I need to animations named correctly that a hexxer could then insert into the existing sets out there. Thereby updating most if not all animation sets in existance viable to new naming conventions.
P.S. Also I'm not trying to say the entire system has to be updated. If not a single thing gets changed it would still be absolutely ESSENTIAL that ALL meshers get availability to a list to see what is used currently and what we need to make the most use for players for anims.
I understand. But alot of these powers can be character specific and most meshers that I've seen create area, melee, and ranged animations specific to the character they're meshing. I don't believe we need to come up with a whole new naming scheme when most of it is customizable already. With the vast array of meshes and keyframes available and with the ability to copy animations with M25's Tool, players already have the ability to use any animation they want for any character they want and create a dummy power using it. There are only a few animations (that I'm aware of) that are either hard-coded or need a replacement because they're using animations that really weren't meant for what the attribute is doing (swing_pole used for breaking free, as I suggested). I'll be happy to get a complete list together for Vertex.
Actually I'd say most meshes created out there have not had custom anims made for them. Most people use the same anims for most if not all of their meshes. Not to nitpick or anything but I've found most people have their fave set of keys and they just insert them into each new mesh they use.. that would be part of why so many people are so "loyal" to a particular mesher. They know their fave set of keys will work with their meshes.
Something to consider, but most of this discussion has focused on people that actually "know" how to use ffedit and ffxedit. We've seen time and time again that not everyone knows how to use those tools or that they're even in existence, so it's also safe to assume that they also know nothing about changing animations and using m25's tools.
Regardless, that wasn't the original point and I think some people are making the point VERY murky with the side talk and such. I take Vertex just wants a list of what there is to work from and what keyframe animations they use and he'll get to work on making them available. I don't think he's telling anyone to go back and rework anything, per se. TMX has offered to take it up, so I take this is the end of that until something new appears, right?
Quote from: Vertex on January 05, 2009, 09:29:41 PM
Actually I'd say most meshes created out there have not had custom anims made for them. Most people use the same anims for most if not all of their meshes. Not to nitpick or anything but I've found most people have their fave set of keys and they just insert them into each new mesh they use.. that would be part of why so many people are so "loyal" to a particular mesher. They know their fave set of keys will work with their meshes.
I'm not so sure about that. Most meshes come with their own keyframes and if the mesh is of a popular character, most of the time the animations are specific to that character, like TommyBoy's Mr. Fanatastic and Wonderwoman, or Renegade's Hulk and Wolverine, to name a few. Not only that, but there are also keyframes made specifically for certain kinds of characters, like speedsters. Even if a player has a favorite mesher, alot of keyframes made by other meshers are compatible with their meshes. And not every mesher has made every type of character. I'm sure all players have an assortment of meshes and keyframes they can use.
I don't know any one who uses the same set of keys for Telekinetics, Speedsters, and Mystics. There are keyframes available for every sort of character, who would use generic ones for every character?
Quote from: Previsionary on January 05, 2009, 09:36:48 PM
Something to consider, but most of this discussion has focused on people that actually "know" how to use ffedit and ffxedit. We've seen time and time again that not everyone knows how to use those tools or that they're even in existence, so it's also safe to assume that they also know nothing about changing animations and using m25's tools.
Regardless, that wasn't the original point and I think some people are making the point VERY murky with the side talk and such. I take Vertex just wants a list of what there is to work from and what keyframe animations they use and he'll get to work on making them available. I don't think he's telling anyone to go back and rework anything, per se. TMX has offered to take it up, so I take this is the end of that until something new appears, right?
I almost completely agree with this quote with one exception:
I REALLY am not trying to force some change to the naming system, what I am doing is trying to say that I see a lot of changes that COULD happen to make things more conveinient for everyone and am willing to do ANYTHING I can to help, if they wanna go that way. But irreguardless a list of what attributes call for anims and what they are currently calling to.. and which ones can be chosen as well would be invaluable to all meshers so they can work with the existing system.. to make things a LOT more dynamic for everyone.
Basically it boils down to a simple thing:
We have the capability to customize the animations of FFX more than we take advantage of... be it either preference, lack of knowledge, or lack of animation options.
Vertex has offered to help remedy the animation bit, So he should make whatever animations that he and others think are missing or that would be useful. Maybe just a thread of animation requests?
Once he has them done (whatever they are), people who have the desire and knowledge to update their game to reflect these new options can.
Those that can't or don't want to... no biggie. Doesn't hurt anything.
Quotehe's not asking for input on what he should do for his animations, he's asking for a list of existing powers and their animations so that he can just cut to the chase and make the needed animations he wants to make. they can then be named appropriately so that when the mesh is dropped into the game "ranged_tk_1" or "ranged" or whatever the ffx teams calls the relevant animation - automatically is a tk lifting animation requiring no further user customization past "installing" the new mesh
I don't think that will work..
(I'm really not trying to beat a dead horse....seriously)
The problem is that the dummy animations are using existing basic animations that ALL characters have as a default -- FFX didn't add new custom anims for each of their dummy powers, they just made due with whatever basic animations that all characters have as a base. This is why all the animations are like Ranged, or Swing -- they are animations that ALL character meshes have
If you changed the "ranged" animation to be the new one, then it would work for tk_lift as you indicate... you drop in a new mesh, and that tk_lift dummy power would use the new animation... BUT it would then screw up the animations for any other power that uses the ranged animation. Like Ranged attacks. Suddenly a character that has a ranged attack and used that animation, would now "Lift" his power bean or whatever... cause the ranged attack has now been changed to be specifically for tk_lift.
Any kind of new animation is gonna either require some altering of a dummy power, or overwriting a standard existing animation which has repercussions for any power or game action that uses it.
Gotcha... Check... Roger....
As I the non creative guy says "Lets make a request thread"
You the creative one shudders in horror... "Oh DEAR GOD NO!"
:P
Since this is a request..
How about a separate Control Center for the ffx2custom.py?
Quote from: laughing paradox on January 05, 2009, 11:26:06 PM
Since this is a request..
How about a separate Control Center for the ffx2custom.py?
umm me no technical person aaaaaaaaah terrified of altering such things.. leave to semi professionals much smarter than moi! :unsure:
Quote from: laughing paradox on January 05, 2009, 11:26:06 PM
Since this is a request..
How about a separate Control Center for the ffx2custom.py?
I would like that too.
Actually getting rid of ffxcustom2.py altogether and consolidating it all into one .py file would be the best bet. I know Epimethee has this project on his To Do List, but when it might come to fruition, I don't know.
Quote from: TaskMasterX on January 06, 2009, 01:19:33 AM
Actually getting rid of ffxcustom2.py altogether and consolidating it all into one .py file would be the best bet. I know Epimethee has this project on his To Do List, but when it might come to fruition, I don't know.
Actually, I probably need to a) quit my girlfriend; b) quit my job; c) quit being such a lazy ambiguously foreborn; d) play some FFvsTTR; e) be competent enough to make something which works. Sorry. Still on the to-do, I'm just not making any real progress.
And, by the way, Vertex, in case it got lost in the side discussion, IT'S GREAT THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE THESE ANIMATIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE! :)
Well thanks I guess but can't claim any credit for wanting to do something I figure I SHOULD do.
Putting together the list of animations used by FFX took alot less time than I expected. Hopefully this is what Vertex is looking for and is useful to other meshers. I put it into spreadsheet format and it can be downloaded here:
http://ffx.freedomforceforever.com/downloads/FFX_Animations.xls (http://ffx.freedomforceforever.com/downloads/FFX_Animations.xls)
As Goggles has explained, FFX uses animations that are commonly available to most, if not all meshes. Creating new animations with new names, even if he makes them compatible to most meshes, would not guarantee that everyone will use those keyframes. Therefore, FFX can't change the code to use the newly named animations because FFX needs to work for everyone "out-of-the-box". Vertex has volunteered to create new animations, and for that, we are all very grateful. But, FFX wouldn't be able to use any differently named animations he created unless the player customizes the attribute to use the new animation themselves, which is what I was explaining before. So, I doubt creating new animations with new names is the way to go.
The way I see this panning out is:
Meshers will continue creating animations as they always have - with some meshes containing new animations that follow the same names as all other meshes (ranged, ranged_2, area, area_2, melee, etc.), but are actually NEW animations, and not the same old ranged, melee, area animations available for male_basic, female_basic, etc. Meshers can use the document to see what the default animation is for a specific attribute that the character they are meshing uses, and then create a new animation that is named the same as the default. The only problem is for attributes that use the throw_object animation, meshers would have to make an animation that isn't throwing an object and when the character actually throws an object, it would probably look real silly. So, I would suggest to the rest of the FFX Team that we change any attributes that use the throw_object animation as the default to something like ranged or area. This way all the throw_object animations are left alone and meshers can customize the ranged, area, melee, etc. animations to use the attributes. How does this sound?
Thanks big time for the list!
Woulda responded even sooner but been reading over the list.
I started off trying to count how many diff things use "ranged" as their anim.. got dizzy and stopped. :lol:
Then I started scratching my head why all the defenses.. used area as the animation instead of a active defense or passive defense, but then I realized it was set up because not every mesh ever created had a active_defense or passive_defense anim to call on.... real shame on that one.
Was really surprised to see swing_pole used to break free from grapples and holds :huh:
btw I'm so glad we use compatible versions of office.. if yours was newer than mine I wouldn't even be able to see this :thumbup:
I've been thinking about how you are saying grapple anims are so in need of more proliferation. Only thing I can say in response to that... is that meshes with stretchy arms or ropes etc... actually require to be SPECIAL meshes... they require extra objects to do the stretching. The "skeleton" [biped] of a standard mesh is rigged with bones that do not move away from the body.
Take a couple of existing meshes that you cited as performing the action: constrictor - has physiqued coils that are capable of stretching out (badly from what I saw [downloaded it to look]). Bottom line an existing mesh I could create anims for .. but what's there... cannot be stretched except other than to make the biped larger as a whole making the entire character stretched out and deformed.
I realize what the big hangup is on what was chosen for animations to use... Ya decided ya wanted any mesh existing to use all of these attributes and powers, even ones like policeman and thug and any other background player. Just to leave you with a thought on that... I really think a yahoo group could be opened as depository. A section of anims could be provided that would be pretty well universal, and then hexxed into all existing meshes. Those who don't have the ability or knowledge to hex in anims could grab up the fixed sets from that same yahoo group and everybody would be set. When FFX was released we had NO options for being able to update existing material, but honestly today with what hexxers can do with material given.. no mesh is safe and almost nothing can't be done. Being a mesher maybe I see animations a bit different than most guys do, I honestly didn't think I did that much.... but I can assure you 90 percent of meshes out there made by each creator, usually use the same animations pasted into the next mesh they make. When animations are made for particular characters.. it's usually just a handful added in or altered for flavor. Anyways like I said I realize why such generic options were chosen and why so many things use the same default and as you say that's how it's gonna stay.
Well I'm off to open up FFX and check all these powers and attributes that use the same anims (boy there's a lot) and hope some of them give options for what to pick (at least I got the impression from earlier talks that some of them do) so I can be sure of which ones we're really stuck with and which ones can be individualized.
Let me explain a little about the document. The animations have either a (H) if they are hard-coded (meaning the attribute code would have to be updated to use a different animation) or ( C ) if they are customizable (meaning they can be changed in FFXCC or in FFEdit). If the attribute has a dummy power, then the animation is customizable in FFEdit, if not, it's customizable in FFXCC.
Quote from: TaskMasterX on January 06, 2009, 07:34:00 PM
Let me explain a little about the document. The animations have either a (H) if they are hard-coded (meaning the attribute code would have to be updated to use a different animation) or ( C ) if they are customizable (meaning they can be changed in FFXCC or in FFEdit). If the attribute has a dummy power, then the animation is customizable in FFEdit, if not, it's customizable in FFXCC.
Yeah I realized that before going ingame. Okay so the only way any of this is customizable is through FFEDIT and FFXCC which a whole lot of us don't use at all. Okie dokie well that leaves me with the option of simply trying to make sure that when I make an anim I bear in mind what all uses it and try to make that named anim as generic as possible so it can do 20 diff things. Alrighty then I see I don't have nearly to do to sync up with FFX since 1 named anim can't be tailored to be so many diff things. Thanks again for the list which will come in handy for what I need to bear in mind for what exists.
I thought of another request...
How about an attribute that changes allows a character to change an enemy character into a predetermined other character? Kind of like polymorph, but you are able to edit what the character will be?
The discussion of Circe reminded me of it.. like, instead of her always toadifying people, she can turn them into various animals that would attack her foes? And maybe set it on a timer, so that they revert to their natural form after 30 seconds or so?
Quote from: ips on January 06, 2009, 10:29:22 PMok i'm not understanding the resistance and negativity here honestly - the constant reiteration of why this can't be done - it's really unnecessary, it's untrue, and it's hindering the potential growth of FFX in general. it can be done if we just decide to do it.
firstly... we use hero meshes. not civilian meshes. i'm making a point of saying this because everyone is going to a great deal of trouble to ensure backwards compatibility with every single mesh, when it's not at all required. EVERY attribute does not need to work with every single mesh that exists for the simple fact that the attributes are not meant for every character out there. it's true that we never will know what mesh a user wants to use for their character BUT tmx went to the trouble of pointing out that if soemone wanted to, they could used m25's kf transfer tool to add any missing animation they needed into their mesh. so, MESHES should now be removed from the equation as that concern is satisfied.
you see, this is backwards development. and as such, it creates a limitation/bottleneck for the creative process where one wouldn't exist. the user is responsible for supplying their own mesh to use with the power. what the existing process is doing, is limiting the ffx power to go with existing limited meshes (limited by the foresight we had when those were created), so we cant do more with keyframes and meshes because of these limitations. it's a circular arguement. instead, we should have a properly developed power which is not limited to allow for any possibility of meshes. this allows for developing of new meshing and animating possibilities down the road instead of a creative dead end.
what we need is a power that defaults to say "ranged" but is EASILY fully customizable to anything the user wants for every power. and if a power has multiple animations being used they should follow the same customizing theory.
the real problem in this discussion is motivation, and negativity guys. :(
I'm not seeing any negativity in my post. I'm merely trying to make what was requested workable for all players and at the same time limiting the amount of work needed to accomplish that. As Epimethee has already mentioned, not all of us have vast amounts of time to spend on updating FFX to work with specific meshes or animations that aren't even in existence yet. And to say that we're being negative or resistant because we don't want to do this, when I know that something like that wouldn't be thought of saying to other FF community members who give there free time improving FF, is preposterous. If someone called AfghanAnt or Renegade resistant or negative because they didn't have the inclination or time to fulfill a specific request, you'd be one of the first one to chew them out. I'm speaking for myself and if any other FFX Team Member wants to correct me or chime in, then let them be heard. This is something the whole FFX Team has to discuss and decide on whether to include or not.
I'm going by what has been done before and has worked. FFX works as it is - for everyone - with no work required by the player to get it working. Which is perfect for those players that don't get into FFEdit or FFXCC. FFX is highly customizable. You already have the ability to change the animation for most attributes, so why do we need to change the default animation to a name that doesn't even exist? And, when the animations do come into existence, it would require players to find and download the new animations just to get the attribute they want for their character to work? Like I said before, FFX should work out of the box - for those that have no inclination to spend the time and effort to customize it - like it does already. FFX should be highly customizable - allowing players that want to spend the time and effort, to change animations, FX, or whatever - like it does already. I don't see any changes that need to be made to FFX for this, other than the changes to the attributes that use throw_object as there default animation, like I mentioned. Even this isn't really necessary, as it can already be done through customization. But for those players that don't want to customize, it could use an aesthetic improvement, like you suggested.
Most of us already have a collection of meshes and skins and hero files that we want to use for future releases of FFX. We don't want to have to go download a new set of animations, and then spend alot of time redoing the animations for their existing powers, just to get it to work. It should be an option to do so, like it always has been.
Absolutely well said TMX!
You're absolutely happy with it as is and see no need to change and I say stick to your guns :thumbup: People don't have a lot of time to spend working on this side hobby of a game that doesn't even really exist anymore. You're also absolutely right that it would be ridiculous for a person to spend a whole lot of time working on improving the called power/attribute to animation setup when the other person involved has no interest whatsoever to change it.
Please don't try to read into this as being sarcastic for I mean it quite literally as said. Things can and will work just fine as is, and there is absolutely no need for any of this to change. This whole thing started out as a suggestion and a request for a list of what needed what and that was VERY kindly provided for by yourself. I'm sure the list will be used by the wide variety of people out there making animations for the game in our great community and look forward to what comes out of that.
This whole thread has gotten a little overly excitable (I myself am guilty as well).
I get TMX's issue, in that everyone has gotten a little defensive trying to get their own points across.
And each person has their own understanding of certain facets of the whole... but we are all arguing and focusing on these little back and forth issues that just go round and round... and really don't help anything at this point.
Vertex has gotten what he needed to further his original idea.
We've all gotten excited about what to do with it when he gets it done.
Lets all just take a breath, go beat up Nuclear winter (or blame everything on Prev), and cross the next part of the bridge when we get there.
pfft, scrap that. You can only blame so much on me. Something I wasn't apart of crosses that line. :P. You should've done an impromptu concert with your shirlettes/tutelettes and calmed everyone down. It's what Dazzler would've done. ^^
Okay,
I gotta ask ...
What the heck is a shirlettes/tutelettes???? :blink: :wacko: :huh:
I don't believe this. When did I ever say FFX was perfect or that my time was more important than anyone else's? You quoted me in your post, so how am I not suppose to think that it wasn't direct at me? Sheesh!
Of course FFX could use updating - I've never viewed it as anything other than a work in progress, and I'm sure that the other FFX Members feel the same. My point was that updating FFX to incorporate customizations from both .py files would probably be more important than changing the animation names for some attributes just to make use of animations that don't exist and make those that don't customize go through a hassle of getting it to work. But, who knows, M25, Stumpy, or one of the others could come up with something ingenious so it wouldn't be a hassle and that'd be grand. But I haven't heard anything yet. ;)
I think Goggles is right, let's wait and see.
Soo....
About that idea for an attribute that could change an enemy into a another, predetermined charater... possible?
:)
Yo TmX,
Ignoring what IPS has said entirely, Here's the big impasse.. I think perhaps that wasn't gulfed, that your last post made apparent.*sigh* and bear in mind I say this with FULL understanding that this matter is ENTIRELY dropped. I never meant to imply any people working on FFX should make any changes to the current system. What I meant to suggest and request was a list of all current animation calls to better figure out how to work with them, AND to request you guys to get together and decide if there were any animation calls that you as a collective would want to, need to, or be willing to change into different calls and to name them so they could be made. Now by that... I mean you would decide.. give the names you wanted... and then DO NOTHING.
That list of what you would change IF GIVEN would then be taken and made reality... not only in any future meshes I made in my style but "basic" mesh versions given to add into all other types. At THAT point you guys would then make the changes to the system that you already approved. I'm also assuming that other meshers would follow the same directives you guys gave to their own creations.
Anyways, what came across from your side was that you see one animation call you see worthy of changing and that would be for the "throw_object" anim and making new versions of that for use. As such what is my plan in response? To make a few "throw_object" replacements for male_basic and female_basic and then leave them to the side until you guys decide on naming convention. Otherwise I'm just gonna continue further with making a myriad of animations for my own style of meshes to replace most if not all of what you guys use currently for people to use with the editor. Case closed and everybody on either side of this discussion I think will be happy. Thanks again for the list and I appreciate your help.
Quote from: Vertex on January 07, 2009, 03:14:49 AM
Okay,
I gotta ask ...
What the heck is a shirlettes/tutelettes???? :blink: :wacko: :huh:
Short version:
- Prev became Tutie, cause his reply to everything was a link to some tutorial.
- I became Shirley because Tutie watched the movie Airplane one too many times.
- The Shirlettes were born when my private army (created to kill Randy) underwent a name change to match the new moniker -- and the R&B world tour.
- The Tutlettes were born when the Shirlettes were killed (I think) and I went back out on the road (for the 1967 tour) and Prev mistakenly thought that my backup singers should be named after him.
Yadda Yadda Yadda...The end result is that everything bad that happens on the board is now Tuties fault.
No, no, no!
1) My reply to MOST "questions" was a link to either the comprehensive list or to a previous thread that contained the answer. I didn't do all that archiving and reading for nothing, dangit.
2) I named you after a squirrel in my previous mod thread. Pay attention, bum! But actually, you called yourself "Shirley" in your sig and I just made it mainstream.
3)You hated the gogglerangers! You called them lame! I wouldn't be surprised if YOU killed them and had them cloned....hellscorp in the making.
4)The tutelettes came about sometime last month when you made a post in IPS's thread...you refuse to take on your new moniker but liked the new group. Don't blame that on me! But no worries, you're still Tutie-Shirley to me!
5) I heard your concert failed in parts of Europe and mid-western USA. Sad.
Now, back to your previous programming of:
Quote from: laughing paradox on January 07, 2009, 04:45:56 AM
Soo....
About that idea for an attribute that could change an enemy into a another, predetermined charater... possible?
:)
Quote from: laughing paradox on January 07, 2009, 04:45:56 AM
Soo....
About that idea for an attribute that could change an enemy into a another, predetermined charater... possible?
:)
This should be fairly simple to do. I'm thinking of a modified version of the Transmute Power Swap? Instead of changing enemies into certain object templates, they get changed into a template designated in your customization.
For the animations, any of the ones on TaskmasterX's list could use new ones. I'd particularly like to see something for summoning and control type abilities like Telekinesis, or Puppet Master that currently rely on drop_pole or throw_object.
As a naming convention, I suggest prefacing animations with ffx_ and using descriptive names so it is immediately obvious what they are for. So ffx_tk_lift, ffx_tk_throw, ffx_tk_move, etc.
I think we can easily add new powers to the standard ffx powers.dat file keyed to new animations and then let users pick the power they want inside the control centre (a simple pick from a list) or the ffx custom files. The hardcoded ones would have to be examined on a case-by-case basis to see how or if they can be modified.
Quote from: M25 on January 07, 2009, 04:18:18 PM
For the animations, any of the ones on TaskmasterX's list could use new ones. I'd particularly like to see something for summoning and control type abilities like Telekinesis, or Puppet Master that currently rely on drop_pole or throw_object.
As a naming convention, I suggest prefacing animations with ffx_ and using descriptive names so it is immediately obvious what they are for. So ffx_tk_lift, ffx_tk_throw, ffx_tk_move, etc.
I think we can easily add new powers to the standard ffx powers.dat file keyed to new animations and then let users pick the power they want inside the control centre (a simple pick from a list) or the ffx custom files. The hardcoded ones would have to be examined on a case-by-case basis to see how or if they can be modified.
All excellent suggestions. Ecspecially the last one. This way the original dummy powers and animations are still there and are still the defaults for those fearful messing around in FFEdit and FFXCC. AND, by creating alternate dummy powers with new animations, those of us that like to customize have less work to do. This will work great for those Attributes that use dummy powers, but those that have only an Animation customization, will still require people to type in the name of the animation in FFXCC. It'd be nice to have a list that FFXCC can read from ffxdefault.py, but then I think we might run into the size limitations since FFXCC is currently maxed out. I may be wrong though.
Well Puppet Master allows you to change an object into character and I think LP wants to change other characters into characters, similar to the way the Doppleganger Power works. Is this correct, LP?
It could probably be done either way, but I guess it would also depend on LP's choice of using a Power to execute this (Power Swap) or a command, like attributes do. With a Power Swap, it could also be set up to be used as an area power with a Special Power Swap (like using Displace Image or Cloak) or as an Explosive Projectile (using the LimeyLure Swap).
Quote from: TaskMasterX on January 07, 2009, 08:15:45 PM
Well Puppet Master allows you to change an object into character and I think LP wants to change other characters into characters, similar to the way the Doppleganger Power works. Is this correct, LP?
I'm kinda liking where this request is going...
I've been wanting to have a voodoo-type character be able to touch characters on a map (i.e. civilians or player characters) and transform them into zombies which in turn become an army of undead against the remaining players. Or even if you want to have a Romero-like Rumble Room mission where zombies can transform everyone on the map into zombies... which is very tempting for having "Marvel Zombies" show up or even allow Ash an Army Of Darkness moment to kick some deadites around in a city being slowly taken over.
Another direction might allow a villian like X-Factor's Infectia to turn people into deformed superpowered mutants ("Anti-bodies"), The Goblin Queen changing people into her demons, or even technorganic beings like the Phalanx/Technarc to infect people as well.. of course these are just Marvel Comics examples this could be used for...
- CQ
Quote from: TaskMasterX on January 07, 2009, 08:15:45 PM
Well Puppet Master allows you to change an object into character and I think LP wants to change other characters into characters, similar to the way the Doppleganger Power works. Is this correct, LP?
It could probably be done either way, but I guess it would also depend on LP's choice of using a Power to execute this (Power Swap) or a command, like attributes do. With a Power Swap, it could also be set up to be used as an area power with a Special Power Swap (like using Displace Image or Cloak) or as an Explosive Projectile (using the LimeyLure Swap).
You hit the nail right on the head.
It's about changing a character into another character, just like Doppleganger. I actually would prefer it be a power swap because it allows more flexibility in what power to base it on and the ability for a character to resist. I could make it off of a magic power for some character while I could use an energy power for others. The idea of using it as an area power swap is even better and one I didn't even think about. It would work in a lot of ways, like crimson said, regarding zombies (which I love).. and many other ways.
Egg laying can be done with a summoning swap. You summon the larva/egg/whatever that has the accidental change attribute with either minuteup or randomtimeup as a trigger and no revert.
The problem I ran into with with the accidental change and that idea, is that whenever a "character" is spawned that should behave like an object (no movement, no actions etc) I always ended up with a slow moving Block that tried to attack the player ala the Monty Python limbless black knight. Its like the object was trying to ram me into submission... or run away....
Transmutation swaps, could, I believe, be set up on a per-character basis to call a function to return the template that the target gets turned into.
I think I set this up with a isPan() function or something like that, that checked in the target was male - return man_bull otherwise return a random sylph from the three types.
I cant remember if this ever actually worked, and it did require custom coding top do exactly what you wanted.
Anyway, it would be possible to make this function as complex as you liked to achieve a specific effect.
I thought about making Puppet Master customisable beyond the two basic types and gave up, although I think a decent coder could set up a third type pretty easily using the existing code as a template - the two existing attributes are totally distinct but share a lot of code.
You could have multiple templates that the target can be switched too. The problem with a Swap is that you wouldn't be able to choose which template the target gets changed into. It'd be either a specific one in your customization or a random one. Using an Attribute, on the other hand, would allow you to choose, through the command menu, which template the target gets changed into. But, you wouldn't be able to use the area effects with an Attribute version, like you could with a Swap. Well, you might, but it'd be difficult to code. So, maybe an Attribute and Power Swap version shouldn't be to difficult, considering that there's already alot of code that exists that can be used and modified for this.
Speed and agility 1 add armored or another attribute to slow it down further - and no attacks.
Personally, I just make it a built-in and give it no AI.
So, let me knock the dust off this thread. I've been meaning to add Captain Marvel Jr. and Mary Marvel to the DCUG for some time now. I've got the meshes and skins sitting in my test folder, just waiting for me to get to them, but one thing has always held me back. There isn't any way (that I know of) to simulate the way the Marvel's work. Whenever Captain Marvel and his cohorts SHARE the power, they all get a bit weaker. Could we do a charged pair kind of attribute that made the characters LESS powerful if taken on the same mission? Ideally, they would lose a bit of all their stats instead of just energy, but even the energy would be a big help.
That sounds like a tough one. Parasite would be kind of close.
Btw, do you have my Mary Marvels?
No, I don't think I do. Where can I find them, YL? :)
I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I recently made up some code for the Fenris Twins (Andreas and Andrea Strucker) where while one of the twins uses their power, the other twin loses the command to trigger their power. After the power is finished being fired off, the commands appear for each twin until one uses it. Maybe it could be modified for your idea, BG.
Is there a mod for :ff: that has all of the ffx attributes from 2.2 to 2.6?
I recently thought of something..
For the Illusionist attribute, could we have a few templates to use, instead of just one?
Also, I've noticed, when a character creates an illusion with that attribute, the actual illusion spawns with a powerful boom, knocking over any characters in its vicinity. Does that happen to anyone else?
Disco: (Better late than never): As FFX 2.x replaces the default game, every mod could theoretically have the attributes. But no, AFAIK, none has every one of them. The Strangers is the nearest one, I guess.
Paradox: Not sure, but IIRC the knockback effect was added to solve a bug. As for using more than one template, yes it's possible; however, this would require changing the customization format used for the FFX Control Centre, thus breaking compatibility with existing users' customizations.
Ok, thanks for the reply, Ep
Long range attacks: even the longest range is now really short, it would be useful to have some long range versions of attacks in the game such as a "sniper shot" or "heat vision". These can be individually set up in FFEDIT but it is nice to have some made that you can just select for characters.
Invulnerable buildings: is there a way to give buildings like 10 points of invulnerability?
If you know how to set it up in FFEdit then just make sure you don't select the "not available for custom" flag and you can just select it for any old custom you want.
Yeah, I'll have to set up some new "generic" long range attacks since I just re-installed my game and lost my old ones. It is always funny when the punisher needs to get a few feet away to shoot somebody with a sniper rifle.
Another attribute I would love to see is "master plan"
Basically if the character is not taken out in a minute his Master Plan transpires, with a few to choose from:
Mad Bomber: several land mines appear in the general vicinity (great for Joker)
Enviromental Catasrophe: several radioactive barrels appear in the vicinity
Hellgate: takes some damage to destroy it, meanwhile it spits out demons
etc.