The Marvel Thread

[HarryTrotter]

Yeah,Titans are pretty good so far.I think I commented a lot upon it in DC thread.
Now that you mentioned it,I admit I cant name a lot of teen(or so) superhero on-goings.I could name far too many comics trying to be relevant,on the other hand.
Nothing against Waid personally,he really just ended up being an example here.

[SickAlice]

Haven't weighed in in awhile though I don't have much to say for House Of Ideas. To me this feels like the usual character expansion run, toss out a bunch of characters, so which ones stick and shove the rest under the rug with Echo. I like the costume designs, I'll give it that. For titles in short.

Champions is meh. Reads like a Saturday morning cartoon pitch. These characters were either better reads in Avengers and/or their native books. USAvengers...I liked NA but this is almost trying to be too out there. The former book didn't let me down so we'll see where it goes. I could care less about Ironheart. The Doom book is acceptable. Thunderbolts is so so but not really riveting. Might Captain Marvel did not impress me out of the gate. Occupy and Ultimates 2 are probably my favorite Avengerish books. Hawkeye is in it's own zone but reads well. Totally Awesome Hulk is losing my interest while Hulk has grabbed it immediately.

ASM still is anything I expect from Slott which is good and bad and the same goes for Miles. Spider-woman and 2099 still are great reads. Prowler is an amazing read, issue #3 in particular neared book of that month for me just in prose alone. All of the X-books remained standard so standard for me as well, digestible. Deadpool, Gwenpool and related are enjoyable but when I turn to the silly books it means the mains are not going well for me in turn. Steve Rogers is captivating and The Oath probably earns #1 Marvel title of the year from me, incredibly so as the entire book was nothing but dialogue even. I can't make heads or tails of Venom. X-23's book remains interesting to me as does Logan. Could care less about the new Wasp book.

Monster Unleashed is boring. IvX is standard Vs stuff, the mini prelude read much better. Why they didn't carry over the dynamic eludes me. Characters strategies on page or all well to do but a story is nothing without personal tragedy, that's what made the first Civil War such a hit. Overall Marvel is my old buddy but it doesn't have me in anticipation each month. DC is a bit stronger reading right now at least in Action Comics and the Bat books but more than either IDW is filling the void and nailing it. Marvel needs to focus less on what jumps off the page and more on core traditional story telling technique.

[HarryTrotter]

Thunderbolts #10 Saddest thing is,I have seen worst anniversary issues.The first part (By Busiek and Bagley) is really the only reason to read it.There is even a sticker saying the same thing.

Spoiler

Jolt is back.Zemo is back with Masters of Evil

,everything is great,but then Zub and Malin take over and do what they do beast.F*ck everything up.Seriously,next to Zub,Mark Millar is a master of dialogue.

[Silver Shocker]

Yeah, the Busiek and Bagley story was great. The main story, not quite so much. I didn't hate the writing the way you did, but I'll say this, the art sure was a downgrade from Bags, that's for sure.

Anyway, if you don't Zub's writing, you're not going to like what I'm about to post 

Jim Zub taking over Uncanny Avengers.

I'm a bit disappointed about this. Duggan's been a really solid writer on UA, and Zub is just not as good a writer. I'll probably pick it up, since it sounds like it's going to be a continuation.
The artist will be Kim Jacinto. He did some issues of Venom, which I thought where fine, but they were pretty scratchy which wouldn't fit UA. Fortunately I just looked at some more recent work by him and that was quite a bit more fitting so I'm not really worried about the art.

[HarryTrotter]

Well,Im not reading UA,so it doesnt really concern me.

[SickAlice]

Not surprised though either, I felt like Duggan was reaching the end of his run there anyways. Plus he's hot right now, he should be doing other ventures and applying his creative writing on more unique subjects. I look forward to seeing what he does in place of this honestly.

[HarryTrotter]

So the next revolutionary Nick Spencer twist is...Magneto joins Hydra for the next super mega giga event after which nothing will ever be the same.Classy as always,Nick.

[BentonGrey]

That makes no freaking sense!  Hydra was tied up with the Nazis.  One of Magneto's first adventures was killing a whole bunch of Hydra goons that had attacked his and Charles' hospital.  Mags isn't exactly one to let bygones be bygones.

[HarryTrotter]

Hes a Holocaust survivor;forgiving and forgeting is not an easy thing in this case.
Unless this is some poetic puchline about becoming what you hate.But this is Spencer,I doubt he could have come up with that.

[Silver Shocker]

Not only that, there's a fairly well known story arc (I wanna say from the 80's or 90's, I think it was during "Acts of Vengeance") where Magneto kicked Red Skull's butt and chewed him out for being a Nazi.

In addition to that, there was an issue of Uncanny X-Force where Magneto hired X-Force to assassinate a former Nazi war criminal, and he seemed very conflicted, as if he was ashamed to be doing so. You know, because Mags was a good guy at the time, X-Men don't kill (well, they're not supposed to) and that incarnation of X-Force was a secret kill squad.

^ Also, I think that's unfair to Spencer. Whatever folks think of his Cap run (I haven't personally read it, though I plan to) He's a good writer. Superior Foes, Ant-Man, that Cloak and Dagger mini he did, that .1 issue of Uncanny X-Men, that, funny enough, was a really good Magneto spotlight issue; those were all really solid books. And I thought Standoff was great, and Standoff was pretty much just an extension of his Cap run (as is Secret Empire). If his Cap run's junk, well, guess what, even good writers can write lesser work. A good example to me would Mike Carey's thoroughly mediocre Secret Invasion: X-Men mini. Or even better, Fraction's X-Men run.

Of course, taste is subjective, but I'm not even sure it's a matter of "he could not come up with that" so much as "he has his own take on things"

[edit] So after doing some research...

So it's just the variant cover that started this? As Spencer himself said, let's save our energy until the story comes out. Variant cover is not the story. The story is the story. I'd like to remind you all that the all-iconic-villains covers of Vengeance were incredibly misleading (to the point that most of the villains depicted didn't appear in the book at all, and while Mags did, he was still a good guy/member of the X-Men), and variant covers often do not reflect the story. I assumed it was actually announced that this was going to be in the book (or at the very least, that rat fink Rich Johnston blew it as an actual story twist) but if it's just the covers, let's wait and see.

And screw Rich Johnson for once again posting sensationalist B.S. and fanning the flames of controversy for the clicks and ad revenue.

[and yes, I did in fact just hear about Spencer's real life politics "incident". Personally I'd rather not hold that against him writing the book. That's all I'm going to say because real life politics]

[SickAlice]

Good ol' Hydra. Then again AIM is good now. And most of the good guys are bad. It's Opposites Day at Marvel!

[HarryTrotter]

@SS Ofc,its possible its just a rumor.But knowing Marvels tendency to repeat plots,it seems pretty likely.And I said it before,Superior Foes was a funny title.But Spencer is not much of an idea man from everything I saw.LOST in boarding school seems to be his limit.
All of his tweeting aside.

[HarryTrotter]

Now,for the new Man-Thing;I wasnt expecting Steve Gerber,but the result is still underwhelming.
A full sentient Ted/MT is trying to make a movie career.Because,if Ant Man can do it...
A clever jab at the state of movie industry,but its not really a Man Thing-thing.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I'm not enjoying my favorite Marvel monster, Werewolf By Night, being target practice every few issues of Deadpool.    

I also haven't really been digging Alpha Flight's use or lack of use in Captain Marvel, but they're just there for support..I shouldn't be expecting much.

Unfortunately, another favorite of mine, Spider-Woman, I've just given up on...her series seems to have devolved into domestic nonsense.

A very sad,

Dana 

[HarryTrotter]

So Marvel retailer summit...
Alonso claims a lot of people said they regreted leaving them for Image.Yes,who wouldnt regret earning twice as much?
And a really weird one,David Gabriel said that readers have come to see their diversity push as just another gimmick.It did boost sales for a while,but they ended up alienating a lot of older fans and now the books outside "core Marvel" are not selling that great.Not like everyone warned them that would happen.

[Silver Shocker]

Yeah, it's not surprising that happened. It's surprising they're surprised.
I've heard one online reviewer person speculate that the diversity push is Marvel's preemptive "backup plan" for when Chris Evans, Downey, ect, are done with the movies and they need to replace them. Supposedly fans are so attached to their versions of the characters that recasting won't cut it. I'm personally not sure I buy that, but it's not the worst idea.

I think the part that irks me is how short-sighted and goldfish-like Marvel is about it all. They don't seem to care about the young, diverse heroes they already have and thus feel the need to make new ones that will probably fade into obscurity or be killed off in a few years if they don't stand the test of time. Consider Kate Bishop. An already existing character. The only reason she now has her own book is because Fraction made a point to use her in his Hawkeye run. Squirrell Girl would never have gotten her own book if writers like Dan Slott and Bendis didn't make a point to revive her and have her pop up in other books (her original story was already a kinda internet meme anecdote in the superdickery mold, or Hostage Fruit Pies or Forty Cakes, so she had that advantage). By comparison, of the Loners, Young Allies, Young Avengers, the Avengers Acadamy kids, The cast of Avengers Arena/Undercover (the ones that didn't die, of course) and the large number of characters created for Matt Kindt's Infinity: The Hunt and Inhumanity: Awakening, the vast majority have made zero, or very few appearances in all the years since. It's like the G1 Transformers show. By creating new characters over and over and flooding the cast, you just end up devaluing your own characters and they end up as cannon fodder while Marvel just keeps making more and hoping they'll stick. It's an endless, self-defeating cycle, and it doesn't stop until Marvel makes it stop. They should be doing what they did with Ewing's New Avengers and give these characters team book roles to increase their exposure in books that will sell regardless, instead of gambling on solo books that will be cancelled. At which point people complain about the cancellation when it's really nothing new. Dude, I was there. I read Slingers, and Darkhawk and Power Pack and New Warriors and the Loners and Young Allies, and Generation Hope and Avengers Acadamy. I know what it's like to see young, promising characters you like run their course and fade out.

In other news, I read T-Bolts.

Quick comment regarding the previous issue:
My only problem with the Busiek/Bag prologue is that Atlas was an idiot and didn't follow orders causing the Masters to get the jump on him, but since that had to happen in order for the main story to happen, I blame Zub for that; I don't think Busiek came up with that. Zub's Atlas is dumber than Busiek and Fabian's take on the character, and Busiek spent the bulk of the prologue having Atlas be introspective (something that earlier era of comics had; god, I miss the era of comics where writers weren't ashamed to put words in a book).

As for this new issue, it's all Bucky stuff. That's ok with me, because I like me some Bucky and IMO he is the best thing in this book even though the classic T-Bolts lineup should be the most appealing thing to a fan of said lineup like myself, but it means the Masters of Evil plot doesn't go anywhere. Which brings us to 2 comments from the letters page:

1) Next issue is apparently the conclusion of the Masters of Evil arc. Pretty short arc. Feels unworthy of Zemo.
2). Sean Izaakse, the guest artist who I liked a lot better than Malin, is supposed to do more T-Bolts. Good.

[detourne_me]

Blaming the lack of sales on forced diversity alone is a pretty big scapegoat. There were a lot of contributing factors, and I'd say the constant events, renumberings, reboots, and pisspoor writing were a bigger factor than the forced diversity.
I loved X-Men 92, and Batman 66. I never got a chance to pick up the (was it) Wonder Woman 77, but if there was a Superman comic centred on Christopher Reeves Id probably read that.

Just give me a few core titles that are stand-alones with classic casts and good writing. I dont care if they are connected to the greater universe.

[HarryTrotter]

Yeah,higher ups at Marvel seem to live by Homers mantra: Everyone sucks but me.
Its the readers fault,its DCs faults,its a masonic conspiracy...but its never their fault.
They figured that replacing heroes is a great way to create some online buzz and justify a new #1.Now when the long term effects are showing,again,its somebody else fault.

[GhostMachine]

Ethnic diversity isn't the problem they think it is. The problem is, that instead of coming up with completely original characters, they decided to replace existing characters. The same way DC did it, with Blue Beetle and Firestorm. That's what alienated some readers. I don't care at all for the new Ms. Marvel's costume design, and I like that instead of replacing Peter Parker, we have Miles Morales as a second Spider-Man. But making one of the new `Iron Men' a black teenage girl and the other Doctor frickin' Doom doesn't exactly grab me. I wouldn't mind the Doom thing if we didn't all know he's going to eventually go evil again. Just like we know Old Man Logan will eventually go away when they decide to bring the real Logan back, and X-23 is only filling in as Wolverine.

And incidentally, I like that they made Carol Danvers into Captain Marvel, but I don't like her costume at all. Especially since her Ms. Marvel/Warbird costume is one of my favorite female costume designs. Also, Captain America is one of my favorite heroes, but I'm not a fan at all of Steve's new costume or shield. The mask just looks wrong without the wings, the glove and boots design are awful, and that shield looks like something Battlestar would carry if they ever brought him back. The whole HYDRA thing is also one of the dumbest things that Marvel has done in ages.

[HarryTrotter]

Again,kinda what we all said.It would make more sense to spotlight some of your existing characters then invent new ones.
(Firestorms was a really stupid death,btw.)
Is it time for Marvels Rebirth?

[HarryTrotter]

http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/137948-marvel-issues-statement-about-x-men-gold-1-art.html
Oh boy...

[detourne_me]

I actually wrote an email to the X-Office last night. I was really hoping for a return to form from the X-Men. Prime and Gold #1 were the first Marvel conics Ive bought since the end of Secret Wars, and the first X-Men comics Ive bought since Bendis introduced his new ultra-powerful mutant out of nowhere after unceremoniously killing Dark Beast off-panel.
Im still hopeful for RessureXion, and maybe this incident will lead editorial to take their jobs more seriously for telling great stories again.

[Silver Shocker]

That's a bit weird, but honestly unless I missed something it doesn't seem all that bad to me. It sure as heck isn't bad as that graffiti in that one episode of Homeland. That being said, an artist really shouldn't be hiding a political/religious message in the comic without permission just to save everyone involved a lot of trouble. An visual easter egg reference to another series is one thing (Homer Simpson, Comic Book Guy, Jay and Silent Bob, ect) but this is a bit much.

On the topic of an actual X-Men story that came out, I skimmed an article about the final issue of the O5 X-Men title before Resurrection....and I'm still not not sure what the hell happened. All I know is somehow the O5 are still around, damn be the timeline, and ensuring that mainstream superhero comics will never not be convoluted no matter how many retcons and reboots they do.

Incidentally, curious to see if anyone thinks the new Blue and Gold titles are any good. I'm only planning to try out Gen X and Charles Soule's Astonshing, so it'll be a while for me.

[detourne_me]

Gold wasnt too bad in my opinion, just a few issues with Kitty and Rachel.
For some reason Kitty doesnt need to go by a codename because she is 'indecisive' but tells Rachel to start going by 'Prestige' when in my opinion she's probably more well-known as just Rachel Summers/Grey.
Other than that, its good to see a mansion again.

[The_Baroness]

The titles that I am enjoying more are:

Hawkeye: Great storytelling here and a pretty good support cast introduced during first arc.

Hulk: When many people boast about mature storytelling as a way to show death and sex, come a very dark book... but why dark? Because it realistically deals with depresion and PTSD. If you want mayhem and destruction, this is not a title for you. If you want a legal and psychological character piece, this is the title you need.

Wasp: And to counter the previous book darkness, we get Nadia's optimism. If you want a comic to leabe you with a silly grin after reading, this is for you.

Occupy Avengers: pretty good title and slowly introducing the core members of the team. I dont like Clint, in universe people dont like Clint... and that leads to pretygreat characterizations.

Funny thay, as usual for me, what attracts me of Marvel are more urban stories with street level or close enough characters.

Have to catch up Ms. Marvel... dropped it when event madness ruined my fun of it...

But rather keep this positive so not going to talk about "character assassination II" or "but there are some good fascist for realsies"

[daglob]

Read part of an interview with someone at Marvel. They said that whenever we read old Captain America stories, we will have information that no one in the comic has-that Cap is a fraud. He said it would deepen the understanding of comics, and affect the way we see them forever (and sparked a bit of satire on my part). But it hit me: that is not all. I've complained that a lot of the writers these days are like the secondary antagonists in a Steve Ditko story (I know; "Da Glob's at it again..."), insisting that heroism is somehow a sick, unhealthy reaction, and we should all be miserable, cowardly worms, wallowing the muck and slime of our existence. It seems like these writers want to tear down all the heroes and deconstruct the genre (again), like Alan Moore. Or maybe they intend to create some replacement hero, Americaman or something, that will show everyone how much better they are than Stan Lee, Jack Kirby. Maybe they figure that after all this we will never want to see Steve Rogers as Captain America again (like they did by making Hal Jordan a villain). Or perhaps they intend to "break" Cap, destroy his faith in grandpa HYDRA, finally turn against his serpentine masters, actually becoming the lie he has lived for 70 years. I've also complained about the characterization of the Ultimate Cap as being different enough that he is not the same character, and he is definitely not a better one. I read something a few weeks ago about Cap being the moral heart of the Marvel universe, and that has been destroyed. The thing is, this means something else. I have joked that the next big even would retconn Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, Dick Ayers, Don heck, and the rest out of existence, so that all those stories we used to read and love no longer exist. This actually does that. Every time Cap thinks patriotic thoughts has been eliminated, every time he recounted his philosophy and offered hope to others as been rendered a lie, and every word any writer ever wrote about him has been rendered invalid. They may explain it that Cap was under self hypnosis, just in case some telepath should stop by and eavesdrop on his inner dialogue, or that those thoughts just "didn't happen". It means that, despite the professed respect and adulation they give Jack Kirby, they consider one of his greatest creations expendable. It tosses everything written about cap in the toilet. It also makes part of the JLA/Avengers crossover unlikely. So, all those stories from the '40s, '50s, and all the other decades have been retconned out of existence, replaced with "darker, edgier, more mature", but not better, stories.

I haven't read a current Captain America book in years and it still pisses me off. And I refuse to support this dreck by checking out this "new direction". Sadly, I have read that sales, at least on the first few issues, are up.

Me, I think it's the Captain Amerika from Earth-3...

Yeah, my hip still hurts, and I don't sleep well; I just sit around and brood.

[daglob]

Well, I at least thought someone would politely disagree with me.

[kkhohoho]

Well, I at least thought someone would politely disagree with me.

Well, I guess we can politely disagree that anyone would politely disagree with you, can't we?

[Tomato]

Honestly, my only real response is... the whole Hydra thing isn't real anyway, so why stress? It's already been revealed that Steve thinking he's Hydra is the result of Cosmic Cube shenanigans, so in my mind it doesn't taint what came before at all: Those events happened as they were originally depicted. The fact that Cap currently THINKS they happened otherwise is immaterial and does not impact my enjoyment of other cap stories.

And really, that's my opinion on the entire matter: they're not ACTUALLY retconning anything, and the entire thing with Cap "being Hydra" is, at least based on my understanding, just like an extended version of that spider-man story where Doc Ock tricks Spider-Man into thinking he's his partner. I PERSONALLY have no interest in that sort of story, but I had no interest in Superior Spider-Man either, and then when I finally read it the book was actually pretty good.

Most importantly though, I refuse to rise to Marvel's bait. They want us to be all nerd-rage over this, which sells books. But even just a basic understanding of Comic book lore gave a dozen different explanations for this "revelation."

[SickAlice]

Events are tough to say anything imo because they tend to be spread thin and disjointed. At it's core the deeper personal trials extending from the Steve Rogers series can be very telling. The overall story is a bit cramped and trying maybe too hard to be in my face. Well written though, I'll hand it that. Else I only bite down when it comes to "Age" events because it means titles get stirred, cancelled and new ones released as Marvel becomes All-New-New-New All-Different-Than-Different Marvel Now-But-Not-The-Now-That-Was-Before-Or-Other-Two-Before-That. Historically not something I'd fuss about, books have their time and such but moreso Marvel has been imo flipping the game board way too quickly and as such not giving me a proper chance to enjoy what they're putting out.

And yeah, come the finale and with it Dues ex machina (or usually already in other books before said wrap?) and Steve is back to proper, selling a New #1 issue at that (see Superior Spider-man>Amazing relaunch, Superior Iron Man>Iron Man relaunch). Speaking of I'd think there would be harder fan snaps about some others like Tony Stark speaking of. At least Steve is still Steve albeit reality-washed. Tony's well, see Superior Spider-man with a glowing blue character following a different character. All in the name of line expansion I suppose. And of course there's Cyclops and Jean...sorry True Believers.

Myself it does give me designs to contemplate for FF characters and these days I'm not greatly shaken. Since at least DC's New 52 this just became par the course for flagship books and honestly I can't say how often most of those are better than decent reads. "My" comics are always about and oddities that usually remain untouched, lest cancellation but again I'm okay with when they need to and can always back read.

Otherwise throwing in par the course my top Marvel book is currently Jessica Jones, I mean of course it is. Hawkeye, Squirrel Girl, Deadpool, Ultimates2 and ANWolverine are also ones I'm enjoying. If Weapon X goes as well as it's forefather I'll probably be a taker. Scarlet Spider isn't fare enough yet for me to say of it and Hulk, well if your not reading it spoilery but as many issues in and she hasn't Hulked-out or fought at all, in fact every ish just repeated the previous ones plot. I get excited about Jen's books so that's a low point to me.