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Community Forums => Comics => Topic started by: BentonGrey on April 29, 2018, 04:28:04 AM

Title: Avengers 101
Post by: BentonGrey on April 29, 2018, 04:28:04 AM
Howdy folks, a friend of mine made my day by asking me to pick out some Avengers comics and give him a selection of important and interesting books.  I'm working on my list, but I just wanted to see what the community thought.  I'll be stopping in the 80s, because that's where my experience ends, but I wanted to provide a selection from each age and touch on both important milestones for the team and characters and just great stories in general.  What issues would y'all include in a 'Greatest Hits' of the Avengers title?

I'll update this post as I make progress.

Entries I'm not sure about are marked with a "?" after the issue number.


So, what would y'all add or cut?
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 29, 2018, 01:28:54 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 29, 2018, 04:28:04 AM

  • 19: Enter The Swordsman; A favorite character of mine
Must be a different Swordsman from the one I knew...
What,no love for the Space Phantom?
I guess Beast joining the Avengers would be a landmark issue,too.
Anyhow:
-Under Siege
-Avengers Forever
-JLA/Avengers
-Entire volume 3(0kay,not really entire). Which includes classics like The Morgan Conquest,Nefaria protocols,Ultron Unlimited and Kang Dynasty.

Also,don't mean to be confrontational or anything but comics aren't studying.You dont have to sit down and read every important issue starting with #1.Actually,I found that its easier to start with a (relatively)  modern story and work your way backwards.So to cut things short,I think Avengers Assemble volume #1 by Busiek and Perez would be the best introduction to Avengers.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: Epimethee on April 29, 2018, 06:27:40 PM
Between you and HT, I think you already have most of the top stories covered, Benton.

You could also include:
#115-118 Avengers-Defenders
#146-149 On the Squadron Supreme's Earth (part of the Serpent'S Crown storyline)
#161-162, Introduction of Jocasta
#164-166, Nefaria
#167-168, 170-177 Korvac Saga
#267-269, Introduction of the Council of Kangs
#280 Faithful Servant
Vol. 3 #65-70 Red Zone (if memory serves, I haven't read it since)
More recent stuff...?

Taking into account your previous choices, my suggested additions are strongly skewed toward a specific era. Looking back, I understand better why I loved the Avengers so much: The books I read a a kid were translated reprints from maybe their most consistently interesting period, the second half of the seventies, which featured some of the best work of Englehart, Conway, Shooter and Michelinie, with art by Perez and Byrne.


P.S.: Love the original Swordsman. You already cover his two key appearances (intro and death) in #19 and the Celestial Madonna storyline.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: Panther_Gunn on April 29, 2018, 10:06:20 PM
My knowledge of the Avengers title history is rather limited, so I only have one suggestion to add at the moment.

195-196:  Introduction of Taskmaster
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: kkhohoho on April 30, 2018, 12:59:18 AM
Honestly, these are some pretty good recs, but what about the real milestone? How could anyone forget the fabled crowning jewel that would forever define Avengers now and forever? I am of course talking about none other than the one, the only Avengers #200-- {is shot. Repeatedly. With bazookas}

...Nevermind.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 30, 2018, 04:31:21 AM
Quote from: kkhohoho on April 30, 2018, 12:59:18 AM
Honestly, these are some pretty good recs, but what about the real milestone? How could anyone forget the fabled crowning jewel that would forever define Avengers now and forever?
Avengers #500?  :banghead:
Also,
-Nights of Wundagore #181-187
-and since we kinda have to mention it,Avengers #213
On the more general/marginal recommendations:
-Earths Mightiest Heroes by Joe Casey.Stories set in teams early days.
-Ultimates 1 and 2.Fun blockbuster stories.
-Ultimate Avengers, thou its less Avengers,and more Suicide Squad.Btw,Mark Millar on Suicide Squad is something I would like to see.Blade alone makes it worth reading.Also,Mephisto.
-Dark Avengers,an odd case where Bendis pulls off writing a team.But a lot of credit goes to Deodado there.
-John Byrnes West Coast Avengers (or was it Avengers West Coast?).Can a comic be so stupid,yet so monumental?Oh yes,it can.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: kkhohoho on April 30, 2018, 05:16:48 AM
Quote from: HarryTrotter on April 30, 2018, 04:31:21 AM
-Ultimates 1 and 2.Fun blockbuster stories.

"YOU THINK THIS 'A' ON MY HEAD STANDS FOR FRANCE?!"

Yeah, no thank you. <_<
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 30, 2018, 05:38:03 AM
I said fun,I didnt say inteligent.
Btw,how would Captain America even be aware of the "cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys" meme?
Then again,I never bought that fact that he didnt go mad from future shock.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: BentonGrey on May 01, 2018, 04:06:37 AM
Thanks for the responses and the good feedback guys!  I'll look through these and I'm sure I'll use many of them! 

I probably won't use much modern stuff because I don't have access to it.  My 40 years of the Avengers DVD is missing, and I've only got the stuff (through the 70s) I copied onto my PC.

HT: You're not wrong, and I wouldn't have thought you were being confrontational if you hadn't mentioned that, ha!  Still, I'm approaching this like I would want it approached for me.  I like to see things build and grow, and starting at the beginning is the best way to do that.  I am including some notes about how to skip around if the earlier stuff isn't enjoyable for him.

Ha!  Thanks Epi, I'm glad someone gets it.  Yeah, I've always liked The Swordsman.  He's just a neat character, and I'm always a sucker for a reformed villain trying to learn how to be a hero.

Quote from: kkhohoho on April 30, 2018, 05:16:48 AM
Quote from: HarryTrotter on April 30, 2018, 04:31:21 AM
-Ultimates 1 and 2.Fun blockbuster stories.

"YOU THINK THIS 'A' ON MY HEAD STANDS FOR FRANCE?!"

Yeah, no thank you. <_<

Haha, you read my mind, Kk.  Thanks HT, but I don't have much interest in the Ultimates line.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 01, 2018, 05:02:56 AM
I didnt recommend it to you. ;)
It would primarily be of interest to new readers who want something similar to the movie.
http://atomicjunkshop.com/comics-you-should-own-the-ultimates-volume-1/ (http://atomicjunkshop.com/comics-you-should-own-the-ultimates-volume-1/)
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: Tomato on May 01, 2018, 01:45:44 PM
Except... it isn't, not really. While yes, it does impact the structure and story of the films... the fact is, it's not part of the mainline Avengers, it does not in any way affect the history of the main 616 team, and anything it did affect was wiped out years ago.

As a footnote about it's impact on MCU Avengers' story structure, sure. As part of an introduction to the main series Avengers and their history... no.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: Silver Shocker on May 01, 2018, 09:10:49 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on May 01, 2018, 04:06:37 AM
Still, I'm approaching this like I would want it approached for me.  I like to see things build and grow, and starting at the beginning is the best way to do that.  I am including some notes about how to skip around if the earlier stuff isn't enjoyable for him.

I too have a fondness for reading the books in publishing order sometimes (I've been taking that approach with the $1 reprints Marvel's been putting out lately). To me the weird eccentricities of the older books is part of the fun, like how some of the earliest Silver Age Marvel comics, such as the first appearances of Ant-Man and Thor are just standard Sci-Fi comics stories with a superhero character thrown in. Or how the first appearance of Thanos shows Mentor and Eros with purple skin like he has. Though older comics tend to take much longer to read due to being much wordier so I get a lot more modern comics read these days than older ones. Like you said, the older material might not hold much appeal for someone just getting into comics now.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 02, 2018, 01:32:21 PM
Quote from: Tomato on May 01, 2018, 01:45:44 PM
Except... it isn't, not really. While yes, it does impact the structure and story of the films... the fact is, it's not part of the mainline Avengers, it does not in any way affect the history of the main 616 team, and anything it did affect was wiped out years ago.

As a footnote about it's impact on MCU Avengers' story structure, sure. As part of an introduction to the main series Avengers and their history... no.
Thanks for clearing that up.Even if nobody ever said it.
Again:
It would primarily be of interest to new readers who want something similar to the movie.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: Silver Shocker on May 02, 2018, 01:54:29 PM
Yeah, whether the Phase 1 MCU is based on Ultimates has been a sore point with fans for years. And yes, if you read Ultimates, you get a fairly brisk story about Shield assembling the Avengers who fight the Hulk, then Chitauri, then later Loki gets in there, With Black Widow and Hawkeye as Shield Agents. The difference is in the writing sensibilities.

I'd have trouble thinking of specific mainline Avengers story that follows a similar pattern. Avengers #1 features them forming, fighting Loki and the Hulk, but Black Widow and Hawkeye aren't in it, nor is Fury and Shield.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 02, 2018, 02:07:16 PM
Millar was never a master of dialogue,that stands.

Fun fact,idea of Avengers working for SHIELD comes from Heroes Reborn.Say what you will,but Liefeld was way ahead of his time there.  :)
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: Tomato on May 03, 2018, 01:20:25 PM
Spade, no one is making a list "for the fans of the movies." It's a list of important stories from Avengers history for people interested in the comics. Relevancy to the MCU might be a neat bonus, but it is not the point here, and Ultimates is a footnote in Avengers history at the best of times.

That said, I do echo Spade on several other choices. Avengers Forever is a good one, since it's a solid mini which ties together a lot of Avengers history, though you do kinda need some information going in. One of the minis retelling the Avengers early years (I think the Avengers Assemble mini that Spade mentioned is the one I'm also thinking of, but it's been awhile) might be a good supplement to the original story, since IIRC it doesn't "retell" the early stories so much as add bits of story in between, building upon what's already there. It can help add a bit of breathing room in between the stories for someone not used to how dense early issues are.

I will say though... much as it pains me, JLA/Avengers might be problematic. Don't get me wrong, it's AMAZING, the best Marvel/DC crossover hands down... but it's so dense with characters and continuity that it can be hard to read without having a decent background on both teams.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 03, 2018, 02:49:12 PM
Your mansplaining again.The same thing you just mansplained.
For the record,Benton said his friend asked for Avengers comic.I dont see why that would exclude anything that could appeal to the fans of the movie.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: BentonGrey on May 03, 2018, 05:10:46 PM
Gentlemen, play nice. 

I appreciate everyone's contributions to this conversation!

To clarify, I hate the Ultimates line and what it represents, so I won't be including those comics in my primer.  That being said, of course there are reasons why their inclusion would make sense.  You both make good points on either side.  It just so happens I don't care for them, so it's something of a moot point.  :)
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 03, 2018, 05:29:40 PM
Thats cool.I just mentioned it. :)
And you know,keep in mind you are not doing this for yourself,and your approach could scare some people off from comics.Just saying.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: BentonGrey on May 03, 2018, 07:11:36 PM
That's a fair point, HT, and that's why I'm trying to use a light touch in my selections from the Silver Age and will include a primer document that will prepare the way.  Still, I am pretty sure my friend can manage it and will find those older books interesting.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: kkhohoho on May 03, 2018, 11:59:52 PM
Honestly, I think the best place to start for a newbie is with Kurt Busiek's run. It keeps the classic feel of the Avengers of old intact while bringing in just enough additions and 'quality of life' enhancements for a more modern audience. It also gets them up to speed with a LOT of Avengers history and past members up to that point without assuming they've already read all of it, and makes you interested in what came before if you haven't already read it. So much so that you might just want to check out all that old stuff yourself. And Avengers Forever comes as part of the package.

Roger Stern's run from the 80's is also a really good read. I wouldn't say it's as good a place to start as Busiek's, but it's still easy enough to get into and one of the better eras of the franchise.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: BentonGrey on May 04, 2018, 12:59:46 AM
I do love Busiek's work in general, so I imagine I'd love his Avengers run.  I've read part of Avengers Forever and quite liked what I saw, but I need to read all of that stuff one of these days.

Okay guys, I'm working on refining my list, and I'd love for y'all to weigh in on some of the choices I'm toying with.  I'm going to post particular questions as I review my list and have to make some decisions.  Please let me know what y'all think!

So, I'm determined to provide a small sampling of early Silver Age books as a sampling of that era of comics and as some historic milestones of the title.  I'm settled on #s 1, 4, 8, and 9, which include Cap's intro, Kang, and Wonder Man, but I'm debating on some other options.

First, I'm trying to decide if I should include one of the early Masters of Evil appearances, and if so, which one. 

The first one, in 6-7 has the advantage of some great King Kirby art, and it is, well, the first one.  The second one, 15-16, has much weaker Don Heck art, but I'm already including 16 because that's the changing of the guard issue.  While it can mostly stand on its own, obviously there's something to be said for completeness of storylines. 

Second, I'm going to include the cool Kang vs. the Grand Master storyline, which also introduces the Squadron Sinister, in 69-71.  Kang's motivation there is his lost love Ravonna.  She is introduced in his appearance in 23-24.  That's a fair story on its own, though not exceptional, but I'm debating whether to include it for the double benefit of another Silver Age example and the background on the later tale or cut it.

So, what do y'all think?

Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 07, 2018, 03:52:36 AM
Somewhat unrelated,but I found Kree/Skrull War really disappointing.There is really no war in it,for once.And no living person ever would say things Roy Thomas' characters say.And Rick defeating Ronan by pulling a bunch of Gold Age heroes out of his a*s.Wth was that?  :blink:
Okay,it was explained in Avengers Forever,but it just comes out of nowhere in the story itself.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: kkhohoho on May 08, 2018, 12:05:59 AM
Quote from: HarryTrotter on May 07, 2018, 03:52:36 AM
Somewhat unrelated,but I found Kree/Skrull War really disappointing.There is really no war in it,for once.And no living person ever would say things Roy Thomas' characters say.And Rick defeating Ronan by pulling a bunch of Gold Age heroes out of his a*s.Wth was that?  :blink:
Okay,it was explained in Avengers Forever,but it just comes out of nowhere in the story itself.

Dude, it was made in the Silver Age/Early Bronze Age. Cut it some slack. For comics back then, Thomas may as well have been a word smith.

And just because it wasn't an actual 'war' doesn't mean it still wasn't a kickass story. Especially for the time. Because sometimes, you have to look at these things in the context of the era they were made in to really appreciate them.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: Deaths Jester on May 08, 2018, 12:17:13 AM
If you want the war, see the second Kree-Shi'ar war from the late 80s/early 90s. I think Marvel called it Galactic Storm or such...all I really remember is Black Knight lobotomizing the Supreme Intelligence...
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 08, 2018, 04:17:17 AM
Vision: If a man of Kree can be detained,whos next?Giants?Or androids?Or Mutants?"
And from that day,I hear Vision as Sideshow Mel. :)
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: Bujin on May 08, 2018, 02:11:36 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on May 04, 2018, 12:59:46 AM
I do love Busiek's work in general, so I imagine I'd love his Avengers run.  I've read part of Avengers Forever and quite liked what I saw, but I need to read all of that stuff one of these days.

Yeah, Busiek's run is pretty great, especially when you add Perez art - highly recommended.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: BentonGrey on May 08, 2018, 06:46:13 PM
Yeah, you've got to think about where Roy Thomas, who was a fairly young man when he started, learned how to write.  It was from the school of Stan Lee, where everything is ridiculously overly dramatic and he never met a piece of purple prose that he didn't like.   :lol:  They both overwrite like crazy, yet there is a real charm to their work.  But yes, it is definitely a product of its time, and one should read it accordingly.

And despite the lack of an actual 'war' in the Kree/Skrull War, as HT says, I still think that story is great.  You've got mostly good art throughout, you've got interesting political/cultural stuff with the parody of the House Unamerican Activities Commission, and you've got some pretty solid character work throughout, with the Vision's continuing character development reaching a new milestone.  Plus, for my purposes, it provides a nice tour of the Marvel Universe, albeit a limited one.  It's one of my favorites that I've come across as I've been reading back through all of these in order to choose my list.  It really is quite good, a strong, exciting story, with a lot going on.  I think Rick's usage of the Golden Age heroes works just fine.  We get a few mentions of his having grown up on those old comics, and he's clearly obsessed with superheroes, so it makes a certain amount of sense. 

Yeah, the "Galactic Storm" storyline was pretty good.  I've got the TPB of that someplace, or did once upon a time. 

On the subject of the list, I've decided to cut the Serpent Crown story.  It was NOT as good as I remembered, and it was just sort of all over the place.  Plus, someone coming in without a lot of background is super likely to be lost.  I suppose I mostly just enjoyed it because of the fun of seeing the Avengers go up against an ersatz JLA. 

I'm going to keep the first Lee/Kirby Masters of Evil story to provide a greater sampling of their work.  Otherwise there just wouldn't be enough Kirby in this list, and that story has some really cool pieces that show his creative imagination, however inconsistent its quality is.  I also re-read the first Swordsman story, and though very silly, it was even better than I remembered.  :)

I just read the Nefaria story for the first time, and it was great!  There's not a whole lot to it, but it is a fantastic multi-issue brawl, one of the finest in any of the classic Avengers comics.  Plus, there's some good character work throughout.  Thanks for the recommendation!

I'm starting the Korvac Saga, and it's certainly very interesting so far.  It's definitely a good snapshot of Marvel cosmic.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: Deaths Jester on May 08, 2018, 08:21:37 PM
You might also want to include the storyline where Baron Zemo's Masters of Evil almost succeed in destroying the Avengers (the one were Goliath beats the holy mackerel out of Hercules and wherein the heroic Black Knight and Rita Demara Yellowjacket are introduced).
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: kkhohoho on May 09, 2018, 03:13:45 AM
Quote from: Deaths Jester on May 08, 2018, 08:21:37 PM
You might also want to include the storyline where Baron Zemo's Masters of Evil almost succeed in destroying the Avengers (the one were Goliath beats the holy mackerel out of Hercules and wherein the heroic Black Knight and Rita Demara Yellowjacket are introduced).

You do know the heroic Black Knight showed up long before that story, right? He's been around since the 60's.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: Deaths Jester on May 09, 2018, 03:31:42 AM
I talking about the current heroic Black Knight, Dane Whitman. Jeez...
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: BentonGrey on May 09, 2018, 04:07:18 AM
That's the same fellow who appeared back in Avengers #48.  I haven't read the one you're talking about DJ, but I've heard good things about it.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: Deaths Jester on May 09, 2018, 04:14:17 AM
Ah but back in Avengers 48, Whitman was undecided on being a hero or not. By the time he "joins" Zemo's group, he has decided to be a good guy (if memory serves me right but it is hazy)...it makes sense if you read it and stuff from the story pops up quite often afterwards...
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 09, 2018, 05:39:45 AM
@Benton Funny thing is,Stan Lee's writing work for larger-then-life characters like Thor or Silver Surfer.
@DJ I think you are refering to Under Siege.

TBH,I cant say that I was ever a fan of Avengers Silver and Bronze age aestetics.Or their Chromium age,for different reasons.
I still believe in that there are no bad characters,only bad writers,but I have never seen a version of Vision that I liked.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: kkhohoho on May 10, 2018, 12:52:09 AM
Quote from: Deaths Jester on May 09, 2018, 04:14:17 AM
Ah but back in Avengers 48, Whitman was undecided on being a hero or not. By the time he "joins" Zemo's group, he has decided to be a good guy (if memory serves me right but it is hazy)...it makes sense if you read it and stuff from the story pops up quite often afterwards...

Your memory is hazy. (No offense.) Dane became a good guy almost from the outset. He was a reservist Avenger ever since the 60's and finally joined full-time early in Roger Stern's run. Long before Assault on Avengers Mansion.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: kkhohoho on May 10, 2018, 12:53:06 AM
Quote from: HarryTrotter on May 09, 2018, 05:39:45 AM
@Benton Funny thing is,Stan Lee's writing work for larger-then-life characters like Thor or Silver Surfer.
@DJ I think you are refering to Under Siege.

TBH,I cant say that I was ever a fan of Avengers Silver and Bronze age aestetics.Or their Chromium age,for different reasons.
I still believe in that there are no bad characters,only bad writers,but I have never seen a version of Vision that I liked.

Oh come on. He's a classic. He was practically the group's mascot for ages. Lots of Avengers fans love him.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 10, 2018, 08:04:32 AM
Which is cool,but I personally dont like him.But then again,I only liked Hawkeye when Busiek and Nicieza were writing him,so I have a lot of unpopular opinions.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: BentonGrey on May 21, 2018, 04:15:59 PM
Alright guys, I've finished my reviewing and selection.  Here is the document I'm sending my friend, along with the comics.  You'll find my selection and some rationale under the intro:
Spoiler

Quote
Intro:
Spoiler

The Avengers 101:
An Overview of Key Moments, Important Characters, and Just Plain Fun Comics

This document serves as an introduction to, and a guide through, a selection of comics that provide an overview and primer for The Avengers.  I've included introductory information for the different comic eras covered (think literary eras), as well as providing a little information about the individual stories and arcs included. 

Keep in mind as you read, that these books are the product of a different time with different expectations and standards.  The Silver Age comics (and many of the later ones as well) will tend to be silly and majorly overwritten, but they are also fun and innocently entertaining.  Try to read them with an indulgent and patient eye, like we do occasionally with classic films, acknowledging their foibles as part of their charm.  I also occasionally find it useful to skim the copious narration and dialog rather than let it weigh you down.

You'll notice that there are some major differences between what you see in the comics and what you see on film, in part because the characters in the comics will evolve over the years.  You'll find the characters both similar and different from their cinematic counterparts.  For example, Iron Man has much less personality than his film version, and it is Hawkeye instead of Tony who plays the mouthy, quippy counterpart to the straight-laced Captain America. 

Interestingly, Hawkeye has one of the more notable arcs throughout the series, and you'll see him grow from a hot-headed loose cannon with no respect for anyone into a team player with a deep affection for his teammates.  Often times very simple characters, especially villains, will grow into much more interesting versions as time passes.  Yet, the movies generally do a wonderful job of capturing the cores of the characters and worlds of the Marvel Universe. 

One of the most unique features of American superhero comics is the sprawling continuity of a shared history, which the Marvel films have been able to replicate so successfully.  This is part of what makes comics so entertaining and interesting, the idea that what happens to one character may have an impact all across the setting or even years down the line.  I've tried to provide some sense of that in my selection of titles.  You'll see writers picking up events and characters from years before and developing them in new and interesting ways, and you'll see the continuity grow into a rich and varied history. 

Comics:
Spoiler

Silver Age Intro:
Spoiler
•   The Silver Age: Beginning in 1959 with DC bringing superheroes back after they had mostly faded away (with the exception of Batman, Superman, and a few others) following WWII (The Golden Age), this era was full of wildly imaginative stories, simplistic writing, two dimensional characters, and all under the watchful gaze of the Comics Code Authority, which kept things G rated.  Marvel arrived on the scene in 1961, and their entire universe was almost singlehandedly created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, who at their height, were producing over half a dozen books a month.  Today, an artist might, at most, do two.  Lee, for all of his faults and overwriting, was incredibly innovative and injected personality and drama into superheroes when that hadn't really been done before, giving his heroes relatable problems and struggles that made them more human.  This was one of the defining characteristics of Marvel, and it would take DC a decade to catch up.  The stories from this era are the beginnings of the Marvel Universe and form the foundations for all that follows.
o   1: Avengers Assembling, here you can see the fairly humble beginnings, both of the team, and of the Marvel Comics universe.  Along with Fantastic Four, which it followed, this book paved the way for everything to come.  Responding to DC's creation of the JLA in the same fashion, Stan Lee took every superhero character featured in Marvel Comics at the time and teamed them up.  The rest is history.
o   4: Captain America joins the team; With Cap re-entering Marvel history in a story dating from 1964, it's interesting to think about how much closer WWII was to that tale than it is to the modern day and how that shift changes Cap's experiences.  It was common in stories from this era for Cap to meet people who had known him during the war.
o   6-7: The first Masters of Evil story (anti-Avengers); This introduces an important part of the Avengers mythos and provides a good sample story from the early days of the team and their book.
o   8: First appearance of Kang; This time-traveling tyrant willl become one of the Avengers' best and most memorable villains.  Note the similarities to the science fiction classic, The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951), a clear inspiration.
o   9: Wonder Man intro; This tale of mad science, betrayal, and 11th hour heroism will have long-lasting consequences.
o   16: The Changing of the Guard; Quicksilver, the Scarlet Witch, and Hawkeye join the team, forming "Cap's Quirky Quartet."  This begins one of the defining traits of the Avengers, a rotating cast, as their membership changes very often, especially compared to DC's JLA.  Note how charmingly quotidian it all is, with rules, bylaws, and formal announcements.
o   19-20: Meet the Swordsman; This comic introduces a favorite character of mine, a villain who will become significant in future issues as something rather more, and this is a rather unusual story, with an antagonist who isn't just scenery-chewing evil.
o   26-27: Atlantis Attacks; This one is a fun, action-packed early adventure that visits a corner of the Marvel Universe not yet seen in the films.
o   54-55: The return of the Masters of Evil; But it is more than that, it is also the introduction of a very important villain, someone we've seen in the movies.
o   57-8: Creation of the Vision; While this storyline is utterly cliché today, with the 'how do we define humanity' question a constant staple of science fiction, when this tale was written it was pretty groundbreaking, especially for comics.
o   59-60: Yellowjackets and Wedding Bells; We see an Avengers' wedding which proves important to the future of the concerned characters and the team, plus, this issue provides a fun glimpse of the Marvel Universe at large as wedding guests show up.  You'll likely see some familiar faces from the MCU.
o   69-71: Kang vs. The Grand Master; A time-spanning game between demigods with the Avengers caught in the middle, and as a special treat, the introduction of an ersatz version of DC's rival super team, the Justice League

Bronze Age Intro:
Spoiler
•   The Bronze Age: Beginning roughly in 1970 and extending through the mid 80s, this era saw increasing complexity and sophistication in the genre, with a new generation of creators and fans arriving, many of whom grew up reading the books of the pervious period.  This was also a time of increased social awareness and relevance in comics, as creators attempted to tackle some of the social issues that were plaguing contemporary America, like racism, drug use, and sexism.  This era saw Watergate and other scandals, and such social upheavals were reflected in the comics of the day, leading to an overall more cynical, disillusioned perspective.  Captain America even renounced his title in a heavily fictionalized version of that event, ashamed at what his country had become.  These changes didn't happen overnight, and a story from 1970 is usually not going to be that different from one from 1969, but the genre is growing up.  This is my favorite era of comics, as the stories get better, as does the art (oftentimes, though with notable exceptions), while there is still a solid moral core, with heroes still acting heroic. 
o   85-86: Introducing the Squadron Supreme; Meet the complete lineup of the ersatz JLA in a really solid two issue tale that makes good use of literary allusions. (Suggested pre-reading: Browning's poem, "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came")
o   89-97: Kree/Skrull War; This is one of the relatively early universe spanning adventures, providing a nice glimpse of the scope of the MU, something of a tour of major players and settings, plus a good, high-drama story
     -FYI: Don't worry if you don't know anything about Captain Marvel, you'll get a recap about him in the second issue.
o   Avengers 115-118, Defenders 8-10: The Avengers / Defenders War; A conflict between two of Marvel's super teams that features a wide range of characters and an interesting story.  Read the issues in alternating order, starting with the Avengers 115, but you can skip to its epilogue, which is on page 25.  This story perfectly captures an enduring Marvel trope, where two groups of heroes meet, have a misunderstanding, and fight, only to sort things out and team up in the end.  It's time-worn but still fun.
o   160: The Trial of the Vision; A villain known as the Grim Reaper puts the Vision and Wonder Man on trial to see who the real Simon Williams is, a good character driven yarn.
o   161-162: Jocasta Introduced; Another stage in the development of Ultron as a character, with a new wrinkle in the form of a 'wife' for him who becomes something more.  She'll play a role in future stories and adds to the continuing treatment of the 'what is human' theme.
o   164-166: The Avengers Battle Count Nefaria; Featuring something of an evil Superman, this is a desperate and action-packed set of issues that provides one of the best super-brawls in Avengers history.
o   167-168, 170-177: The Korvac Saga; a sprawling, cosmic story that brings the (original) Guardians of the Galaxy together with the Avengers in a similar fashion to Infinity War.  It also features several characters from the films, like the Collector, who shows up in GotG.  This story captures what is known as "Marvel Cosmic," a trend towards big ideas and conceptually challenging comics with a cosmic scale.  It serves as a fitting capstone to the team's first two decades of development.

I think I'll make a generalized version of this and put it on my blog, sort of like my Aquaman Primer.

I'm pretty happy with my list, but if my friend is interested, I may eventually expand it into some of the more modern stuff that y'all mentioned.  I decided to cut several things out as they just weren't as good as I remembered or simply were a bit too much for the kind of project I had in mind.  Thank you all for you help!  Y'all made this more fun and much easier!
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 25, 2018, 12:00:14 PM
So,you stoped reading the comic in 1978? :p
Also,it might be easier to seek out collected editions,at least for the crossovers.
And on top of everything mentioned before,there is #125,the one where Thanos becomes a god.Sure,that happens every few days,but this is the first case IIRC.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: BentonGrey on May 25, 2018, 02:33:24 PM
I have the 44 Years of the Avengers DVD, and I've only read through to the late 70s / early 80s. 

Fortunately, I think I've got all of the books I need at the moment.

Yeah, I considered that one, but it draws on a bunch of stuff from CM's own book and would have been a bit hard to follow on its own, I think.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: kkhohoho on May 25, 2018, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on May 25, 2018, 02:33:24 PM
I have the 44 Years of the Avengers DVD, and I've only read through to the late 70s / early 80s. 


What made you stop? I mean, sure, there's some real crap that happens later down the line, but most of the mid-late 80's Avengers stuff (including West Coast,) is still good reading. In particular, the Stern run is a keeper.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: BentonGrey on May 25, 2018, 05:09:34 PM
Ohh, it wasn't a conscious decision or anything.  I just started doing other things.  I'll go back and read more eventually.  Actually, I had apparently stopped several years before the Korvac Saga, but y'all's suggestions spurred me to read a bit further, which was great fun.

For a while I was reading Avengers, FF, and some other Marvel books in big chunks, but I guess I got distracted.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: kkhohoho on May 25, 2018, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on May 25, 2018, 05:09:34 PM
Ohh, it wasn't a conscious decision or anything.  I just started doing other things.  I'll go back and read more eventually.  Actually, I had apparently stopped several years before the Korvac Saga, but y'all's suggestions spurred me to read a bit further, which was great fun.

For a while I was reading Avengers, FF, and some other Marvel books in big chunks, but I guess I got distracted.

Ah. Okey-dokey.

...You haven't read Avengers #200 yet, have you?

GOD was that a dumpster fire.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: BentonGrey on May 25, 2018, 10:33:52 PM
I actually looked it up after y'all's comments....urg...sounds pretty bad.
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: kkhohoho on May 25, 2018, 10:41:46 PM
Just watch this. You'll thank me later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIaUi4DDui4
Title: Re: Avengers 101
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 26, 2018, 01:08:03 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on May 25, 2018, 02:33:24 PM

Yeah, I considered that one, but it draws on a bunch of stuff from CM's own book and would have been a bit hard to follow on its own, I think.
Thats going to be a recurring problem.Hey kids,want to know why Tony is a former alcoholic?
Its similar for everyone else.Except Hawkeye.His only defining trait is that hes an Avenger.Seriously,thats all he got.It only got better in the Modern age.