Just an update for everyone, since I don't necessarily know if it's common knowledge... new episodes will FINALLY start airing September 16th. Don't ask why it took so long, especially since I KNOW they were finished through episode 19 months ago.
:thumbup: I needed some good news today.
I believe it was the network wanting to air them with the rest of their September lineup. Either way: YAY more Young Justice!
What episode were they up to when they stopped? I think I saw the first 7 or 8 episodes.
they aired through episode 9, which I believe was where they were stranded in the desert and fought psymon. Episode 10 leaked onto the internet awhile back though, so some people may have seen it. Conceivably.
Well, a bunch of episodes have aired since this thread last saw any love: Targets, Terrors, Home Front and Alpha Male. Quite enjoyable, for the most part, though Superboy's emo nature is still irritating.
I actually don't mind Superboy. He's probably my favorite character. Loving the show.
I think it's fine initially, but I agree that his "epic rage" thing has been overdone... speaking as someone who has blown his lid like that, there's only so long you can be that ticked before it just burns itself out. Personally, I think he's better when he's calm and out of his depth, like in episode 10 when attending high school.
I liked him in the high school setting, and in the Terror Twins episode, and I liked that Miss Martian put him in his place in the most recent episode. I don't hate their version of the character, I just think his tantrums need to disappear.
So, I was double checking that the new YJ episode will indeed air this week (since one did not air last week, despite it BEING READY) and was skimming the list of episodes when I came across the title for the season finale... "Auld Acquaintance." Now, at first I thought it might have been a typo or something for "Old Acquaintance" (I saw it on wikipedia after all) but upon digging a little deeper I found the same odd title on several other sites, leading me to believe it's intentionally spelled like that.
From what I've been able to determine, "Auld" is used most commonly as a surname (though I can't find it used on any DC character) but it's also obviously slang for "Old"... mainly Scottish slang if I'm to believe my google search. But I don't consider myself quite the expert on old-school english slang, so I thought I'd ask you guys.
I'm pretty sure it's a reference to "Auld Lang Syne" commonly sung at New Years.
Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
and never brought to mind?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
and auld lang syne?
Just some quick thoughts on some recent episodes:
- Greg Weisman, one of the show's creators, also created "Gargoyles" which I started re-watching recently, which also meant that I saw "Future Tense" the dystopic alternate future lets-kill-the-entire-cast-but-not-really episode just days before "Failsafe" the YJ alternate reality lets-kill-the-entire-cast-but-not-really episode. While Weisman wasn't the writer, I wonder how much input he had.
- "Disordered" featured the Forever People. No, I'm not kidding.
so they had harm and secret in the last episode and the supercycle in the one b4
Quote from: Glitch Girl on November 14, 2011, 03:43:08 PM
Just some quick thoughts on some recent episodes:
- Greg Weisman, one of the show's creators, also created "Gargoyles" which I started re-watching recently, which also meant that I saw "Future Tense" the dystopic alternate future lets-kill-the-entire-cast-but-not-really episode just days before "Failsafe" the YJ alternate reality lets-kill-the-entire-cast-but-not-really episode. While Weisman wasn't the writer, I wonder how much input he had.
- "Disordered" featured the Forever People. No, I'm not kidding.
Plz. This is a show where Sportsmaster is one of the most major villains, and is a credible threat. I is not surprised anymore.
As for Weisman, he's got an awful lot of input from what I've heard. From what I understand, YJ is a collab between him and someone else, same as Spectacular Spider-man was(different collaborator though).
Also, the high school scenes were hilarious. I loved the nod to Superboy's 90s look, even if it wasn't exactly flattering (but then, neither was the costume)
"Who are you?"
"Superman. Done right!"
:lol:
FYI: This was the first of three (not linked as far as I know) episodes written by Peter David who created the original "Young Justice" (which included Secret, though she was more verbose).
I LOVED the "Martian Invasion", especially when Megan made herself into a "martian invader". I'm also liking that Captain Marvel is, basically, a kid, because he is one. Even so, the resolution of that bit when the team thought he was going to another party felt a little over the top.
I wonder when they're finally going to officially reveal that Sportsmaster's Artemis' dad. I agree with Tomato, they actually made him a credible threat but managed to keep the gimmick as well.
Quote from: Glitch Girl on November 20, 2011, 01:30:52 AM
FYI: This was the first of three (not linked as far as I know) episodes written by Peter David who created the original "Young Justice" (which included Secret, though she was more verbose).
Would this be the same Peter David that spent a decade or so putting The Incredible Hulk book through its paces? If so, *bow*!
T'would be the same. He has a history with the group.
Still hearing unconfirmed rumors about them adding Wonder Girl to the roster. I wish I could get a yes or no. Wouldn't mind seeing their version of Zatanna as a recurring character either.
I suspect they will be introducing her asap... and despite what people keep claiming, it'll probably be Donna, not Cassie. Putting aside the fact that they very specifically chose to use primarily the original "sidekicks" (Kaldur being the only real exception, and let's face it... as awesome as he is, they created him because they needed a black character), if they put Cassie in everything will suddenly be about her relationship with Conner from the books. Donna fits with the established theme of characters better, and (as much as prem doesn't like me saying it) would fit as a potential love interest for Kaldur without really breaking up any of the other budding relationships.
Thought I'd bring this up (in spoilers JIC, but you can't really see enough to really spoil anything
Spoiler
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7051/yjposter.png)
So, I've been hearing people claim every character in the series is in this poster, but I'll be honest... I don't think any of the main 6 are in this poster, at least not the current looks. Going from left to right:
Female(No Jacket)- People have speculated this might be proof of WG joining the team, which is all well and good... but the hair style bugs me. To me, it actually looks like Miss Martian's hairdo... except she doesn't have a cape. Odd.
Archer- This one is hard to read, as it's really the furthest from the camera. It very well could be Artemis (that looks like her bow) but... I dunno. There are subtle things in the way they've drawn the characters chin and arms that make me feel like it's a guy, or at the very least a different character. Hard to tell.
Capeguy- Again, very possibly Robin, but... meh. Looking at the artwork, the cape is too long, the face is weird (looks like he's wearing goggles of some kind), he's got batman's gloves (Robin has padding in the show, not batman's spikes), and he looks too tall to be Robin. If this is sometime in the future from the current series then yeah, I'll buy that it's Robin... but it's very clearly an older character to the little twerp we're used to seeing.
Female (W/Jacket)- the one most people on the "This is all the main cast with a few new chars" bandwagon keep pointing too is Miss Martian... Yeah, no. The hairstyle is COMPLETELY different from Miss M's(Look at the bangs), and that is also CLEARLY a jacket, not a cape.
Blue Beetle- Clearly this is Jamie. Shame on anyone who think it's Aqualad with new water-bearers. *stabs them*
Speedster- This is clearly a flash-themed character (little flash ear things) but again, look at the hair and face. The art looks a whole lot more indicative of Impulse then of our own Kid Flash.
So... new episodes should start again today. I only have one thing to say:
QuoteAre you excited cause I'm excited I've never been so excited, well, except for the time that I went [gasp] but I mean really--
So I saw the episode earlier today (on TV for once... heh) and... I enjoyed it. It's not the best they've done so far, but it was almost worth the wait. Spoilers follow
Spoiler
Firstly, I love how the episode was structured with Captain Marvel being the go between for YJ and the League. It was a nice way to develop Captain Marvel a bit more, since up to this point he's been portrayed as almost a giant 5 year old. Amusing to a point, but quickly grating.
Secondly, I liked that we FINALLY have consequences for using the Helmet of Fate. Back in the Injustice League episode, we had Aqualad, a perfect receptacle and one Nabu would easily make use of, basically just be like "lol, nope" and take off the helmet. It's been kind of a cheap dues ex machina up until this point, and I'm just as glad to see it taken off the table.
Thirdly... ZOMG RIDDLER! Recognised him as soon as he snuck out of the building.
Edit: For those who haven't been picking it up, I highly recommend reading the Young Justice companion comic as well. It's currently written by Greg Weisman, one of the show's creators, and it gives a lot of "behind the scenes" stories for some of the episodes (For example, going into where Robin was during the Fate episode, expanding on the Clayface fight, that sort of thing). It's a really good read
I wonder if the first season of this is on Netflix yet...I missed a bunch of it, but I did like what I saw.
Quote from: BentonGrey on March 03, 2012, 08:11:01 PM
I wonder if the first season of this is on Netflix yet...I missed a bunch of it, but I did like what I saw.
Since it hasn't all aired yet, I doubt it. the episode that aired is only episode 19
Amazon has most of it available online, so Netflix might have at least the first half of the season as well.
Don't use logic on me when I'm trolling Benton, it's not appreciated!
Either way, season one hasn't aired in full yet, so I very much doubt the whole season is up on netflix. Thus, my point.
Quote from: Tomato on March 03, 2012, 05:53:38 PM
So I saw the episode earlier today (on TV for once... heh) and... I enjoyed it. It's not the best they've done so far, but it was almost worth the wait. Spoilers follow
Spoiler
Firstly, I love how the episode was structured with Captain Marvel being the go between for YJ and the League. It was a nice way to develop Captain Marvel a bit more, since up to this point he's been portrayed as almost a giant 5 year old. Amusing to a point, but quickly grating.
Secondly, I liked that we FINALLY have consequences for using the Helmet of Fate. Back in the Injustice League episode, we had Aqualad, a perfect receptacle and one Nabu would easily make use of, basically just be like "lol, nope" and take off the helmet. It's been kind of a cheap dues ex machina up until this point, and I'm just as glad to see it taken off the table.
Thirdly... ZOMG RIDDLER! Recognised him as soon as he snuck out of the building.
Edit: For those who haven't been picking it up, I highly recommend reading the Young Justice companion comic as well. It's currently written by Greg Weisman, one of the show's creators, and it gives a lot of "behind the scenes" stories for some of the episodes (For example, going into where Robin was during the Fate episode, expanding on the Clayface fight, that sort of thing). It's a really good read
While I too was glad to see that deus ex machina finally dealt with in a more permanent way...
Spoiler
Nabu (sp?) comes off as a bit of an idiot. If he attended courses on how to create super-villains, I don't think he could do much better. "I know, I'll steal away the daughter/father of a powerful magician - that won't possibly make he/she hate me and want to forcibly remove me and then throw my helmet in Mount Doom or use it as a chamber pot." Was any effort made to find someone halfway willing to become Dr. Fate on a more permanent basis?
Spoiler
I felt like Nabu had just kind of lost patience with the whole thing... Kid Flash clearly wasn't making any effort to find a new host, and there was very little chance that someone inside the JL would turn around and don the helmet if it wasn't necessary. If I were treated in the way he was up to that point, I'd probably be a bit impatient as well (not to mention the fact that the episode underlined why he was needed more than ever).
Besides, I doubt that he'll make Zatarra stay bound to him indefinitely. Over time, I suspect Nabu and Zatarra will reach an arrangement to where Zatarra will be able to spend at least some time with his daughter, while still fulfilling Fate's needs as a lord of order. But since that time is likely to be limited, having Zatanna live with the rest of the full time YJ members at Happy Harbor is more practical
Nope, no luck. I suppose I'll have to wait for re-runs.
Quote from: Tomato on March 05, 2012, 09:01:05 PM
Spoiler
I felt like Nabu had just kind of lost patience with the whole thing... Kid Flash clearly wasn't making any effort to find a new host, and there was very little chance that someone inside the JL would turn around and don the helmet if it wasn't necessary. If I were treated in the way he was up to that point, I'd probably be a bit impatient as well (not to mention the fact that the episode underlined why he was needed more than ever).
Besides, I doubt that he'll make Zatarra stay bound to him indefinitely. Over time, I suspect Nabu and Zatarra will reach an arrangement to where Zatarra will be able to spend at least some time with his daughter, while still fulfilling Fate's needs as a lord of order. But since that time is likely to be limited, having Zatanna live with the rest of the full time YJ members at Happy Harbor is more practical
Still, I think it's odd that one of the most evil things we've actually seen in episode -
Spoiler
the enslavement in all but name of Zatarra
is done by a supposedly 'good' character.
Current episode:
I liked seeing some actual growth in Wally's character.
Yeah, I've missed quite a bit of the last season or so, but I caught this last episode. It was quite good, though I'd have loved to see more of the OTHER story going on. :)
You know that there's a major story line going on in the background. I'm guessing we will find out at the end of the season.
We should. Personally, I think that this is all leading up to the premise for season 2 "Invasion".
Remember, this is Greg Weisman, the guy who inspired the term "Xanatos Gambit" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosGambit).
never read the yj comic, but loved some of the titans incarnations. wouldnt mind seeing a few titans geust stars on the show.
Quote from: Amazo Version 2.2 on March 13, 2012, 09:26:49 PM
never read the yj comic, but loved some of the titans incarnations. wouldnt mind seeing a few titans geust stars on the show.
Garth AND Roy have both already appeared, not to mention the fact that Robin=Dick and KF=Wally. Sure, we haven't seen the non-sidekick ones yet (Though I fully expect Cyborg will be shoehorned into the League at some point, given how much of a murs DC's made him) but I wouldn't be surprised if they show up sooner than later.
Quote from: Amazo Version 2.2 on March 13, 2012, 09:26:49 PM
never read the yj comic, but loved some of the titans incarnations. wouldnt mind seeing a few titans geust stars on the show.
That reminds me: We all know that Wally is the clown of the group, but what happen to Beast Boy? It would be cool to see him in the show.
Beast Boy isn't really associated with YJ though, is he? I mean, he showed up in the comics a few times, but that's about it. Regardless, I do remember news from a bit ago that said Beast Boy would join the cast and be voiced by Logan Grove. Dunno if that's still true, but it was announced.
Spoiler
Yeah... even by YJ standards, Garfield's almost to young (he's what, 9?) to take up one of his more common monikers until next season or so. His inclusion IS a good sign with regards to seeing other characters from titans lore in the future, but right now he has yet to even get his comic book powers.
Speaking of, what do you guys think will happen with regards to that? I fully expected them to take the cop out of him getting his powers from the imperfect blood transfusion, but it looks like they're opting to combine that with his pre-existing origin.
Quote from: Tomato on March 18, 2012, 11:14:53 PM
Spoiler
Yeah... even by YJ standards, Garfield's almost to young (he's what, 9?) to take up one of his more common monikers until next season or so. His inclusion IS a good sign with regards to seeing other characters from titans lore in the future, but right now he has yet to even get his comic book powers.
Speaking of, what do you guys think will happen with regards to that? I fully expected them to take the cop out of him getting his powers from the imperfect blood transfusion, but it looks like they're opting to combine that with his pre-existing origin.
Spoiler
I expected the blood transfusion to give him his powers as well.
Spoiler
I'm starting to think the show's creative crew will decide to (temporarily) kill of Miss Martian and have Zatanna and Beast Boy fill her absence through expanded roles.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on March 20, 2012, 05:11:51 AM
Spoiler
I'm starting to think the show's creative crew will decide to (temporarily) kill of Miss Martian and have Zatanna and Beast Boy fill her absence through expanded roles.
I'm so hoping you're wrong. Killing would be too easy. Let it be her leaving because of her "situation" and then come back later on
Quote from: JeyNyce on March 20, 2012, 05:23:05 AM
Quote from: oldmanwinters on March 20, 2012, 05:11:51 AM
Spoiler
I'm starting to think the show's creative crew will decide to (temporarily) kill of Miss Martian and have Zatanna and Beast Boy fill her absence through expanded roles.
I'm so hoping you're wrong. Killing would be too easy. Let it be her leaving because of her "situation" and then come back later on
That's probably the more likely option, given the comic book precedent that already exists for it.
But I seem to remember Weisman or somebody promised they'd kill off at least one member of the team. Not sure why and not sure when though.
Did anybody see the last episode? Is it me or is this becoming the next JLU? The stories are getting deep and there are multiple stories going on.
Actually, that's one of the things that's really impressed me all the way down the line here... There's so much information weaving in and out of every episode that you don't always catch all of it.
Quote from: JeyNyce on March 28, 2012, 02:17:33 PM
Did anybody see the last episode? Is it me or is this becoming the next JLU? The stories are getting deep and there are multiple stories going on.
Yeah, this is quite an ambitious show. It weaves together two teams of superheroes.
As much as I grew to love the old Teen Titans show, I always thought it would be interesting if the creative team took a different direction and tried to make it an outgrowth of the regular DC Animated Universe that existed at the time.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on March 28, 2012, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: JeyNyce on March 28, 2012, 02:17:33 PM
Did anybody see the last episode? Is it me or is this becoming the next JLU? The stories are getting deep and there are multiple stories going on.
Yeah, this is quite an ambitious show. It weaves together two teams of superheroes.
As much as I grew to love the old Teen Titans show, I always thought it would be interesting if the creative team took a different direction and tried to make it an outgrowth of the regular DC Animated Universe that existed at the time.
That would have been a show I actually would have watched...
The rest of season 1 is on youtube in some other language (Portuguese, I think) with english subtitles if anyone's interested.
Wow. What an episode. Seriously, I don't know why any self-respecting comic fan isn't already watching this.
Also, I probably won't bother with the Portuguese episodes at this point... If CN was still being dumb and delaying episodes fine, but we're almost at the end now anyway. I'd rather just watch the last 3 as they come out.
Great episode. Love the Spidey spoof
Quote from: JeyNyce on April 01, 2012, 01:08:32 PM
Great episode. Love the Spidey spoof
One of my Autistic students was very unhappy about that because Spidey is Marvel and YJ is DC. He didn't like that "Spidey" was the bad guy that got taken down by DC characters. It made for a looong day.
Quote from: Cyber Burn on April 02, 2012, 11:10:08 PM
Quote from: JeyNyce on April 01, 2012, 01:08:32 PM
Great episode. Love the Spidey spoof
One of my Autistic students was very unhappy about that because Spidey is Marvel and YJ is DC. He didn't like that "Spidey" was the bad guy that got taken down by DC characters. It made for a looong day.
lol, I can only imagine how that conversation played out!
That poor guy; God bless 'im. :-)
Quote from: oldmanwinters on April 03, 2012, 03:44:22 AM
Quote from: Cyber Burn on April 02, 2012, 11:10:08 PM
Quote from: JeyNyce on April 01, 2012, 01:08:32 PM
Great episode. Love the Spidey spoof
One of my Autistic students was very unhappy about that because Spidey is Marvel and YJ is DC. He didn't like that "Spidey" was the bad guy that got taken down by DC characters. It made for a looong day.
lol, I can only imagine how that conversation played out!
That poor guy; God bless 'im. :-)
i had the pleasure of watching that convresation play out. i felt bad for both partticipants, but it was certainly amuzing.
i'm really enjoying yj right now, even more so than the teen titans cartoon. though i'm not really enjoying all the shorts, i was hoping for something more i guess.
I agree in regards to the shorts, the Plastic Man and Teen Titans were pretty good, the rest have seem to fallen short (No pun intended). I do really like the weapons segments though.
Just watched today's episode... It's pretty epic. The whole "mole" situation was handled very well.
BEST SHOW EVER!!! I'm starting to like this more than JLU.
A very nice episode indeed.
I love that I didn't see that ending coming :thumbup:
Well, that was very good. I'm impressed with how that story was told. It's definitely not as good as JLU, but it's surprisingly close. There's just something about it that doesn't reach the same level of soul. The characters aren't quite as well realized. It's hard to put my finger on. Anyway, I really enjoyed this episode, and I'm glad they finally wrapped up the secrets upon secretes storyline. I'm excited to see the showdown coming next.
Actually, I personally like YJ a lot more then I ever liked JLU... JLU had some great moments don't get me wrong, but there was an awful lot of random nonsense in the stories because the writers didn't really nail down what they were doing from episode to episode. As a result, while JLU had a lot of good stories, there were also some very bad ideas in there too (Powergirl being demoted to Supergirl's evil clone, Captain Atom's betrayal, etc.) But there isn't really any story or character from either the show OR the comic tie-in (Seriously, if you haven't read it yet, GO PICK IT UP) that I don't think adds to the narrative.
I'm just Happy that ICON & Rocket are on the show. They are my favorite. I wonder if we are going to see static in the future episode? Also, is the comic just as good? I may start reading comics again if it is.
Some of the early stuff is just kinda passable (a few stories about what Superboy did during the gap in episode 1, a few obligatory origin issues, etc), but starting with Issue #7 the writing for the book was taken over by Greg Weisman (One of the show's actual creative heads and creator of several of my favorite TV shows). From that issue forward, the comic weaves in and out of the show... going into how Artemis was there during the Amazo incident, what Robin was doing with Batman during the Dr Fate incident, expanding on why Kaldur was at fault for the Clayface debacle (and why Artemis was absent during it).
In short, yes, it is just as good. It's obviously well behind the show now (chronologically the current arc takes place September 6th, or between episodes 9 and 10) but I'm sure it'll catch up when CN inevitably delays the show for another year and a half.
I'm with Benton on this - Young Justice is good; JLU was great. Those "bad ideas" you mention, Tomato, don't bother me at all (Supergirl had an evil clone they used to wink at Power Girl - Power Girl wasn't an evil clone; Captain Atom had to make a hard choice between loyalty to his country/military and the Justice League), but Young Justice occasionally has characters that act so boneheadedly, I'm continually surprised when the show just lets those actions pass (Dr. Fate and his abduction/slavery spring to mind) as if they're okay/sensible.
On a more sensory level, I generally prefer the character designs on Young Justice, and both have pretty good animation quality generally (though Young Justice has yet to have any real wowers of animation like a handful of later JLU episodes). Finally we come to voice acting, where JLU laps Young Justice a few dozen times. The main cast of both shows is/was pretty great (special shout-out for Kevin Conroy's Batman), but when it comes to villains & guest stars, JLU is so far ahead it's not even a comparison: Mark Hamil's Joker, Clancy Brown's Luthor, JLU's Vandal Savage, their Amanda Waller; I've yet to hear a villain voice actor on Young Justice really impress me, and some make me cringe.
Quote from: Tomato on April 15, 2012, 04:50:24 PM
Actually, I personally like YJ a lot more then I ever liked JLU... JLU had some great moments don't get me wrong, but there was an awful lot of random nonsense in the stories because the writers didn't really nail down what they were doing from episode to episode. As a result, while JLU had a lot of good stories, there were also some very bad ideas in there too (Powergirl being demoted to Supergirl's evil clone, Captain Atom's betrayal, etc.) But there isn't really any story or character from either the show OR the comic tie-in (Seriously, if you haven't read it yet, GO PICK IT UP) that I don't think adds to the narrative.
Ha, well 'Mato, I pretty strongly disagree. It's funny, the examples you bring up as being 'random nonsense' I found really entertaining and interesting. The episodes surrounding Powergirl's reveal and Captain Atom taking sides are some of my all-time favorites. See, one of the things that
JLU did that appealed to me so much was that they created a universe that flowed together and 'made sense' in a way that the comics just don't. Everything fit, everything worked, and the result was a series of really compelling stories. If you've ever read the descriptions and write-ups I've done about the DCUG, you'll find that it is just such a re-imagining that I was trying to accomplish in my little project. That's what
JLU has over
YJ, a world that really comes together and works towards the show's goals. That isn't necessarily a knock on
Young Justice, but it is, I think, that quality that I was unable to identify earlier. I think this comes from a difference in the overall concepts of the shows themselves.
JLU was about the League, and the DC Universe at large. The world was the story as much as the characters.
YJ is a smaller story, though they are expanding it. It's about this small group of characters moving through this larger world, but the world itself is left mostly sketchy at the margins. I like a great deal of what they've done, and I enjoy the depth of comic influence and reference in the stories they've told, but I'm often left thinking, 'that's great, but I'd rather hear the story of the League and the larger drama unfolding.' So, in that sense, I suppose it is just a matter of taste that I choose the one over the other.
In the end, however, I will always defend the quality of the writing in
JLU over that in this show. This one is good, don't get me wrong, and the writing is probably better than that in the
Avengers, and certainly better than that of the other superhero shows we've seen since the Timmverse's swan song, but to compare these two is to illustrate the difference between good and great. The Cadmus stories, the Thanagarian Invasion, and so many other arcs produced utterly moving and compelling episodes like "For the Man Who Has Everything," "Wake the Dead," and even those very episodes you called nonsense, like "Question Authority." I've just never felt that sublime joy or sadness that
JLU so often evoked when watching Young Justice. It is only just getting started, and we all know that
JLU didn't start out as good as it became, so perhaps the writing will reach that level as they go on.
:EDIT: Ahh, and Talavar managed to hit something else quite on the head that I was struggling to articulate (and failing to articulate entirely). Yeah, I like the design style of
YJ much better than the exaggerated Timmverse designs, though I really hate several of
YJ's actual character design, like their Riddler. The animations itself, however, was, on the whole, much more impressive in
JLU. However, Tal's point about the voice acting is perhaps one of the most pertinent. It is the incredible talent of the voice cast that brought those equally incredible episodes to life. The villains DEFINITELY had a lot more personality and charisma, and a good part of that is thanks to their voice actors. Let's face it, a story is only as good as its villains. ^_^
So, is there a reason you guys are comparing the first season of YJ to the final seasons of Justice League or did that just happen at the spur of the moment? Wouldn't the better comparison be to compare JL (season 1) to YJ (season 1), i.e., both shows in their infancies.
I actually mentioned that Prev. Why don't you pay attention, hmm? :P
I've been pleasantly surprised by YJ over the last couple of years. I really commend Weisman & crew for giving us a show that shows us two different leagues of DC superhero shows. It should be an epic finale next week.
Much has been said about the comparisons between Weisman's YJ and DCAU's Justice League/JLU. The fact that the conversation can even be had is a credit to the quality of YJ. In some ways, YJ exceeds its predecessor, mostly notably with the much better use of CGI, the Achilles Heel of JLU.
YJ has been more ambitious with its season long story arc than JL, which only really had about 3 major season arcs (Thangarian invasion in Season 2, Cadmus/Luther plot in JLU Season 2, and the Legion of Doom in JLU Season 3). Not everybody prefers the episodic, seemingly self-contained stories in the early season of Justice League when compared to the "Master Plan" philosophy that has tied together the first season of YJ.
However, I cannot speak of many episodes of YJ that actually appealed to me on the basis of the immediate story; my interest has more been "I wonder where they're going with this plot thread?" It keeps me tuning in next week, but it doesn't necessarily give me a sense of satisfaction and resolution while watching the specific episode. The notable exception for me was the recent Kid-Flash race-against-time episode, "Coldhearted." That was probably my favorite memory of the season, on account of how personal the story was for KF; it was a good reminder that sometimes the most important battles aren't fought in the skies amongst gods but on the ground among the seemingly insignificant arenas.
So, to sum it up, Justice League is still the Top Dog of DC Animation, but I really anticipate seeing Young Justice: Invasion premiere in a few weeks.
I'm not going to argue most of this since I think it's all pretty much personal preference on both sides of the fence (I fully admit that my preference is partly based on the main characters, who I've always felt more of a connection to than the JL.) but I WILL defend both of the cases I mentioned in my post. Now, I have nothing against the actual episodes that stuff appeared in... I actually purchased the itunes versions of those particular episodes because they are among my personal favorites. But I feel very strongly that those particular elements were handled poorly and I wanted to express WHY since I've been called out on it.
First, Power Girl. My God, seriously? You thought that was a good thing? I'm sorry, but I cannot in good faith support that. In the comics, Power Girl is probably one of DC's best examples short of Wonder Woman of a strong, independent female character. JLU turned her into a Supergirl knock off with clone-itis (Oh, I'm a clone, how horrible is my life, WAH!) who spent an ENTIRE EPISODE doing nothing but obsessively wailing on the JLU because she felt INFERIOR TO A TEENAGE GIRL. I am by no means a feminist or anything, but taking an independent and strong character like Power Girl and making her a whiny beach with an inferiority complex is something I personally find both disgusting and repugnant.
Second, Captain Atom. Ignoring the blatant fallacies JLU has perpetuated with regards to how his powers actually work, his betrayal of the team was executed very poorly. We don't see him struggling with his decision, we don't see any internal conflict, we aren't even given adequate time before the episode for him to leave any impression on the audience... he showed up in the first episode of the season sacrificing himself to save everyone and then didn't really show up again until BAM! he's betrayed the team. No build up, no internal conflict, nothing. The whole thing just felt forced and it left a very bad taste in my mouth for that reason.
Quote from: Tomato on April 15, 2012, 06:48:53 PM
I'm not going to argue most of this since I think it's all pretty much personal preference on both sides of the fence (I fully admit that my preference is partly based on the main characters, who I've always felt more of a connection to than the JL.) but I WILL defend both of the cases I mentioned in my post. Now, I have nothing against the actual episodes that stuff appeared in... I actually purchased the itunes versions of those particular episodes because they are among my personal favorites. But I feel very strongly that those particular elements were handled poorly and I wanted to express WHY since I've been called out on it.
First, Power Girl. My God, seriously? You thought that was a good thing? I'm sorry, but I cannot in good faith support that. In the comics, Power Girl is probably one of DC's best examples short of Wonder Woman of a strong, independent female character. JLU turned her into a Supergirl knock off with clone-itis (Oh, I'm a clone, how horrible is my life, WAH!) who spent an ENTIRE EPISODE doing nothing but obsessively wailing on the JLU because she felt INFERIOR TO A TEENAGE GIRL. I am by no means a feminist or anything, but taking an independent and strong character like Power Girl and making her a whiny beach with an inferiority complex is something I personally find both disgusting and repugnant.
Second, Captain Atom. Ignoring the blatant fallacies JLU has perpetuated with regards to how his powers actually work, his betrayal of the team was executed very poorly. We don't see him struggling with his decision, we don't see any internal conflict, we aren't even given adequate time before the episode for him to leave any impression on the audience... he showed up in the first episode of the season sacrificing himself to save everyone and then didn't really show up again until BAM! he's betrayed the team. No build up, no internal conflict, nothing. The whole thing just felt forced and it left a very bad taste in my mouth for that reason.
The thing is -
she's not Power Girl. She's an evil Supergirl clone. Different name, different origin, sometimes (Power Girl's have fluctuated over the years) different powers; Galatea =/= Power Girl. In a bit of winking fan service, they gave her a similar costume, and a 3 second shot of her walking with a red towel over one shoulder where Power Girl's red, off one shoulder cape would be. A clone feeling inferior to the original I find perfectly believable.
Captain Atom wasn't a main character, and his moral dilemma didn't matter to the larger story. It's a disservice to him as a character, but that conflict isn't really about him, it's about Superman & Cadmus. That, and I think you're making too much of his betrayal of the League, and not enough of his loyalty to the military. It's clear, JLU's Captain Atom is not the same as DC Comics' Captain Atom. Like you mention, his powers function in very different ways, JLU version is living energy in a containment suit which I don't think is true of the DC version, and their origins may be very different (ie. no false murder conviction, etc.). As a career military man he's got good reasons to follow his orders.
Quote from: Previsionary on April 15, 2012, 05:57:04 PM
So, is there a reason you guys are comparing the first season of YJ to the final seasons of Justice League or did that just happen at the spur of the moment? Wouldn't the better comparison be to compare JL (season 1) to YJ (season 1), i.e., both shows in their infancies.
I think we're comparing both shows as they exist thus far. Young Justice in its first season has certainly been better than Justice League's first season, so it could definitely surpass the other show. If only they'd get better voice actors for the villains!
...
AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!
So, as I was saying above, I've been really impressed with the comic series since issue 7. However, I'm honest enough to say that I was not overwhelmingly enthusiastic about the current arc... most of the other stories have fit into the show's continuity as though they were just deleted scenes or something, but this one just seems a bit crammed in. Basically it's another "Aqualad in Atlantis" story, which features Ocean Master's master plan to take over Atlantis with... well, there's no other way to put it: with the Atlantis equivalent of the KKK. Yeah, I'm hoping the next issue is a bit better, because right now this arc is kind of the Black Sheep of the YJ comics.
That said, I do like the backup story quite a bit... it goes into greater detail about the other Reds and how Morrow was able to reacquire them.
... What? it's not like we were getting anywhere with the other topic.
Been loving this show. Not surprised though, it's by the same guy behind Gargoyles and Spectacular Spider-Man - two of my favorite cartoons ever.
Season 2 Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UEZqFOFJ2EU)
...
Spoiler
Lobo, Adam Strange, Lagoon Boy, Bumblebee, Blue Beetle, Wonder Girl, probably several others I missed
S2's going to be very interesting.
Yep, I was pretty surprised to see LB.
Looks good, and the best thing is, they're going right into season 2 once season 1 wraps!
...
Why is no one discussing this episode yet? I demand you all type words on the subject of the awesome that was today's episode. And by that I mean I will pull my stabbity knife out of semi-retirement if there are not words about this episode's awesome tomorrow after lunch. Why are you still reading this post!?!
*collapses in fangasm*
I missed it, so I can't watch it until tomorrow morning.
Season 1 is in the can! Kudos to the YJ creative team for highly impressive work.
I thought it was clever how they paired 6 of the 7 Justice League members most familiar to fans of the Timm-verse: Supes, Bats, Wondy, Manhunter, GL John Stewart, and Hawkgirl (or is it HawkWoman?). Apparently it was most than just a homage though, as we'll be finding out just what exactly they did during those unaccounted-for 16 hours.
I was a bit confused as to why they didn't include The Flash and complete the lineup of the "Original Seven," but then I realized that it wouldn't have worked because Wally West is actually Kid Flash in this continuity.
I do have to air at least one major complaint about this series, however. Namely, the Villains. They all seem to have about the same agenda and cooperate fully without contention, bickering, or scheming their own agendas. Apparently, we've got Vandal Savage, Luthor, Joker, Ra's Al Ghuul, and Klarion functioning as lackeys to some "Greater Evil." There's just no way that could happen given the diverse character (or lack thereof) of that motley crew.
I can only assume that 90% of all the villains we've seen on this show have been brainwashed by the yet-to-be-revealed "The Light." I'll go on the record in saying that Mind Control is fun for short bursts but is a pretty weak way to write villains at lengths. And if they aren't being MC'd... dang, I'll be really disappointed.
A great final episode, only made better by the fact we only have to wait one week for the next season! Glossing over the vast, mid-season break in new episodes of course....
My only complaint:
Spoiler
It should have been a two-part episode. Some pretty major plot points - namely, the cure for Starro-control - got tossed out there pretty fast and loose. That, and a more epic-feel over the standard episodes to the team taking down their league counterparts and defeating the season-long conspiracy would have been welcome.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on April 22, 2012, 01:34:30 AM
Season 1 is in the can! Kudos to the YJ creative team for highly impressive work.
I thought it was clever how they paired 6 of the 7 Justice League members most familiar to fans of the Timm-verse: Supes, Bats, Wondy, Manhunter, GL John Stewart, and Hawkgirl (or is it HawkWoman?). Apparently it was most than just a homage though, as we'll be finding out just what exactly they did during those unaccounted-for 16 hours.
I was a bit confused as to why they didn't include The Flash and complete the lineup of the "Original Seven," but then I realized that it wouldn't have worked because Wally West is actually Kid Flash in this continuity.
I do have to air at least one major complaint about this series, however. Namely, the Villains. They all seem to have about the same agenda and cooperate fully without contention, bickering, or scheming their own agendas. Apparently, we've got Vandal Savage, Luthor, Joker, Ra's Al Ghuul, and Klarion functioning as lackeys to some "Greater Evil." There's just no way that could happen given the diverse character (or lack thereof) of that motley crew.
I can only assume that 90% of all the villains we've seen on this show have been brainwashed by the yet-to-be-revealed "The Light." I'll go on the record in saying that Mind Control is fun for short bursts but is a pretty weak way to write villains at lengths. And if they aren't being MC'd... dang, I'll be really disappointed.
they did reveal the light I thought Vandal Savage, Luthor, Joker, Ra's Al Ghuul, and Klarion was the light
Quote from: Talavar on April 22, 2012, 03:15:44 AM
A great final episode, only made better by the fact we only have to wait one week for the next season! Glossing over the vast, mid-season break in new episodes of course....
My only complaint: Spoiler
It should have been a two-part episode. Some pretty major plot points - namely, the cure for Starro-control - got tossed out there pretty fast and loose. That, and a more epic-feel over the standard episodes to the team taking down their league counterparts and defeating the season-long conspiracy would have been welcome.
I tend to agree. If there's any real flaws between this episode and the last one, it's that they felt too rushed compared to the rest of the season.
Quote from: Talavar on April 22, 2012, 03:15:44 AM
A great final episode, only made better by the fact we only have to wait one week for the next season! Glossing over the vast, mid-season break in new episodes of course....
My only complaint: Spoiler
It should have been a two-part episode. Some pretty major plot points - namely, the cure for Starro-control - got tossed out there pretty fast and loose. That, and a more epic-feel over the standard episodes to the team taking down their league counterparts and defeating the season-long conspiracy would have been welcome.
Good point about that. I just remember Aqualad saying something like, "Good thing Mara & crew figured out an antidote so quickly." :huh:
Those battles between Batman & Robin and Superman & Superboy really were great Saturday morning television.
Spoiler
I was actually thinking about the convenience of that plot device last night, and it occurred to me... it would have been SO much easier to accept if they'd said something like "good thing Tornado figured out a way to counter them" or something akin to it. Tornado was with the team, he'd already dealt with the Starro tech, and it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that he'd figured out a way to neutralize them.
Quote from: Mystik on April 22, 2012, 03:29:12 AM
they did reveal the light I thought Vandal Savage, Luthor, Joker, Ra's Al Ghuul, and Klarion was the light
Ah, okay, the highly serial nature of this show and my failure to catch reruns on TV or DVD confused me.
Seems like Weisman is trying to turn the major DC villains into The Illuminati or something. It doesn't necessarily make sense to me but maybe the payoff will be worth it in Season 2.
Even though the season final was awesome, it was rushed and they should had made it into 2 parts.
Quotethey did reveal the light I thought Vandal Savage, Luthor, Joker, Ra's Al Ghuul, and Klarion was the light
I don't think Joker is part of it. It seems like 5-7 people pulling the strings and a bunch of sub group/ companies underneath that. Joker is part of the sub groups.
Quote from: JeyNyce on April 22, 2012, 07:21:26 PM
I don't think Joker is part of it. It seems like 5-7 people pulling the strings and a bunch of sub group/ companies underneath that. Joker is part of the sub groups.
The YJ Wiki comes through; I LOVE the internet so much.
http://youngjustice.wikia.com/wiki/The_Light
Apparently, there are 7 Members and numerous Operatives in The Light.
EDIT: The first time I saw Klarion on the show, I just assumed he was supposed to be Morgaine le Fey's son Mordred; I feel like such the comics noobie!
http://www.youtube.com/embed/cOGOjhFBu4M
batgirl and more
Quote from: Mystik on April 23, 2012, 12:05:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/embed/cOGOjhFBu4M
batgirl and more
Wow, was that the Blue Beetle in there?
Beast Boy looks awesome!
I gotta say, season 1 was mighty impressive. Can't wait for next week's opening for season 2.
All those cameos excite the little boy in me! ^_^
(No, i did not eat a child...you're weird for even thinking that.)
Quote from: murs47 on April 23, 2012, 03:00:43 AM
(No, i did not eat a child...you're weird for even thinking that.)
Dangit murs, no one thought that but you!
That was an amazing finale. The stuff with Roy really interests me.
Looks like Robin costume will be alter a bit. They also made him look a bit older or is that just me?
well, time IS passing in the show, so it makes sense he'd eventually go through a growth spurt.
As it happens, I know several of the characters get different looks next season. Here's one half of the YJ Invasion box art (Mattel made one wave of "invasion" toys before cancelling YJ) showing new looks for Robin, Miss M, and Aqualad from next season
Spoiler
(http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/main/wp-content/gallery/matyj6kidflash/yj6kidflashboxsd2.jpg)
They have one of Superboy on the other side, but his costume is pretty much the same as it was at the end of Season 1, since he's just wearing the longer shirt.
Robin stills looks like Robin in that photo, just a little different, and I like Miss Martian's short hair. Aqualad's weird armour isn't doing it for me though.
Quote from: Talavar on April 23, 2012, 03:20:24 PM
Robin stills looks like Robin in that photo, just a little different, and I like Miss Martian's short hair. Aqualad's weird armour isn't doing it for me though.
Spoiler
I think it's supposed to be like Black Manta's armor, which is interesting.
Season 2 Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEZqFOFJ2EU&feature=player_embedded
Quote from: Tomato on April 21, 2012, 12:40:18 AM
Season 2 Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UEZqFOFJ2EU)
...
Spoiler
Lobo, Adam Strange, Lagoon Boy, Bumblebee, Blue Beetle, Wonder Girl, probably several others I missed
S2's going to be very interesting.
Already beat you to it middie
sorry, just my personnal opinion, but miss m's new look just doesnt work for me. at least the longer hair, the whole look as a whole, had a reason. the new look, not wso much.
Now I'm curious...
Did Miss Martian cut her hair or did she just shape shift it to be shorter? :cool:
Well, that was certainly a good finale...though it definitely brought home for me how the emotional queues of this show just don't resonate for me the way JLU did.
Spoiler
Perhaps it's the teeny-bopper setting, but the three kisses at the end left me feeling fairly unmoved. What was more telling for me, though, was that the whole reveal with Red Arrow being a clone, which should have been pretty poignant, didn't really grab me. I'm not entirely sure what it is about it...probably the voice actors, I suppose.
You know what I don't like about this series? The League is just so cold and boring. All of the life that it should have is replaced by nothing but somber moments, unless Captain Marvel happens to be around. I know they aren't the focus of the series, but it still bothers me.
Anyway, the fights at the end were certainly great, though I agree with those of you who pointed out the plot device's awkwardness. I did like how they resolved the fights at the end, not just having the kids beat their betters straight up, and I liked that they made the point that the Leaguers were being controlled, which slowed them down. The new season looks interesting, and I am definitely glad to see Beast Boy involved. I'm not crazy about the new Robin costume, though I agree, he does look a little older. My guess is there will be some time passed between this season and that.
I've noticed that the first episode of the new season starts on Jan 1, while the finale of last season was also Jan 1. Since they really don't seem to be happening on the same day, I conclude (using superior deductive powers) that at least one year must have passed.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on April 23, 2012, 09:36:50 PM
Now I'm curious...
Did Miss Martian cut her hair or did she just shape shift it to be shorter? :cool:
Since she doesn't have any hair in her natural form, I'm going to assume she just shapeshifted it shorter.
Quote from: Talavar on April 24, 2012, 02:37:26 AM
I've noticed that the first episode of the new season starts on Jan 1, while the finale of last season was also Jan 1. Since they really don't seem to be happening on the same day, I conclude (using superior deductive powers) that at least one year must have passed.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on April 23, 2012, 09:36:50 PM
Now I'm curious...
Did Miss Martian cut her hair or did she just shape shift it to be shorter? :cool:
Since she doesn't have any hair in her natural form, I'm going to assume she just shapeshifted it shorter.
Not necessarily. It could just pick up right when last episode left off, because it was only barely new years at the end of the episode.
Quote from: Tomato on April 24, 2012, 03:56:35 AM
Quote from: Talavar on April 24, 2012, 02:37:26 AM
I've noticed that the first episode of the new season starts on Jan 1, while the finale of last season was also Jan 1. Since they really don't seem to be happening on the same day, I conclude (using superior deductive powers) that at least one year must have passed.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on April 23, 2012, 09:36:50 PM
Now I'm curious...
Did Miss Martian cut her hair or did she just shape shift it to be shorter? :cool:
Since she doesn't have any hair in her natural form, I'm going to assume she just shapeshifted it shorter.
Not necessarily. It could just pick up right when last episode left off, because it was only barely new years at the end of the episode.
True, but with the new looks for Robin, Miss Martian & Aqualad, I'd assume more time has passed than part of a day. If the new looks don't happen right away, then yeah, it could be the same day.
New look for Aqualad? I hadn't seen that yet.
the trailer middie and I posted shows new scenes with their old outfits in the opening, and Aqualad's new look is only on the box art so far. I expect the changes will be transitional, like how Superboy got the longer shirt during the latter episodes of season 1 because it was winter.
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 24, 2012, 04:22:27 AM
New look for Aqualad? I hadn't seen that yet.
pic is in spoiler tags on the top of this page. It's nothing awe-inspiring tho.
Edit: So, for those who aren't aware, Greg Weisman (writer of the YJ comic and one of the show's co-creator... also creator of Gargoyles and co-creator of Spectacular Spiderman) has a section on the gargoyles fansite "Station 8" where he answers fan questions about the various shows he's been involved in. For those who haven't been there yet, I highly recommend browsing through the archives, it's an interesting read.
What floors me though, is the lack of common sense in some of the questions. The backlog of questions is up in the 900s right now, and he only answers maybe a dozen at a time, meaning even if your question IS accepted, you're likely to wait months before it's answered. However, people are still asking stuff like "is there going to be a time jump in season 2?" Ummm, since we'll probably be on episode 10 of season 2 by the time he gets around to that part of the queue, chances are you'll already know the answer *face stab*
Anyway, my point is, if anyone else here has a solid question that won't already be answered by the time Greg gets too it, there is a site available and I'd hate to be the only one who knows about it. However, if it comes back to me that one of you losers is involved with the dumb spamming garbage like "what age is X," I will personally hunt you down and stab you in the face. Repeatedly.
I remember that site, used to look at it for Gargoyles info. Was a big fan of that show.
For those of us who use Tivo/DVR type stuff, be sure to check your settings, I just check and "Young Justice: Invasion" was not set up to record, even though I have a season pass for "Young Justice".
I REALLY liked seeing all the new team members in the Invasion premiere.
Spoiler
But I'm sorry to see that Zatanna has already "graduated" into the JL.
It's starting to feel like YJ: Invasion is taking all the best aspects of the comics, "Justice League Unlimited," "Teen Titans," and "Batman: Brave and the Bold" (consciously or not) to form a truly memorable showcase of the DC Universe. Anybody else get a laugh out of the "Justice League" text graphic that GBS opinion guy used on his broadcast?
EDIT:
On a more interesting note:
Spoiler
Did Nightwing make a subtle, morbid reference to Jason Todd when he told Tim "Just don't die" ?
Very interesting first episode; lots to go over:
Spoiler
The Robin image we've seen above is different because 'Robin' is now Time Drake. Dick Grayson has graduated to being Nightwing, because FIVE YEARS have passed. Crazy stuff. The Team now includes Wonder Girl, Batgirl, Blue Beetle, Bumblebee, Beast Boy, Laguna (sp?), while Rocket and Zatanna have graduated to the League (along with an apparently standing invitation for Miss Martian, Superboy & Nightwing, who've turned it down). G. (short for Glorious, I'd imagine) Gordon Godfrey is stirring up trouble for the Justice League on TV news, while Lobo shows up to unveil a secretive alien invasion.
It's a solid episode, no question, but I kinda hate time-jumps. Five years is pretty long, and then they can dole out info about what changed in that time period to create false suspense. For instance, where are Kid Flash, Artemis and Aqualad? Did something happen to them, or are they just taking the day off? Character relationships/development can be radically altered, and we don't get to witness it happen, just have to accept it as done -for instance, Superboy & Miss Martian being broken up, Miss Martian seeming much more business-like, with less of her 'Hello Megan' personality on display, Nightwing now being a big-time leader, etc. Some of these changes were being led up to, but now they've just happened, off camera. It's like the 'One Year Later' business DC pulled a little while ago - ultimately more annoying than it's worth.
The new team members are nice additions for what we see of them - I've always liked this incarnation of Blue Beetle, and his arguing with his beetle-suit (whose side of the conversation no one else can hear) was nicely done; more female superheroes are always welcome. The new alien invasion/Rann plotline gets off to an interesting start, touching on the 'missing leaguers' from last season finale without completely explaining it yet. G. Gordon Godfrey seems very similar to his use in the Justice League episode "Eclipse," but maybe here he'll actually be tied in to his comic book master, Darkseid. Interesting stuff.
Quote from: Talavar on April 28, 2012, 06:32:24 PM
Very interesting first episode; lots to go over:
Spoiler
The Robin image we've seen above is different because 'Robin' is now Time Drake. Dick Grayson has graduated to being Nightwing, because FIVE YEARS have passed. Crazy stuff. The Team now includes Wonder Girl, Batgirl, Blue Beetle, Bumblebee, Beast Boy, Laguna (sp?), while Rocket and Zatanna have graduated to the League (along with an apparently standing invitation for Miss Martian, Superboy & Nightwing, who've turned it down). G. (short for Glorious, I'd imagine) Gordon Godfrey is stirring up trouble for the Justice League on TV news, while Lobo shows up to unveil a secretive alien invasion.
It's a solid episode, no question, but I kinda hate time-jumps. Five years is pretty long, and then they can dole out info about what changed in that time period to create false suspense. For instance, where are Kid Flash, Artemis and Aqualad? Did something happen to them, or are they just taking the day off? Character relationships/development can be radically altered, and we don't get to witness it happen, just have to accept it as done -for instance, Superboy & Miss Martian being broken up, Miss Martian seeming much more business-like, with less of her 'Hello Megan' personality on display, Nightwing now being a big-time leader, etc. Some of these changes were being led up to, but now they've just happened, off camera. It's like the 'One Year Later' business DC pulled a little while ago - ultimately more annoying than it's worth.
The new team members are nice additions for what we see of them - I've always liked this incarnation of Blue Beetle, and his arguing with his beetle-suit (whose side of the conversation no one else can hear) was nicely done; more female superheroes are always welcome. The new alien invasion/Rann plotline gets off to an interesting start, touching on the 'missing leaguers' from last season finale without completely explaining it yet. G. Gordon Godfrey seems very similar to his use in the Justice League episode "Eclipse," but maybe here he'll actually be tied in to his comic book master, Darkseid. Interesting stuff.
Spoiler
I assume "Lagoon/ Lagoona" is a nickname for Lagoon boy, since that's clearly who he's supposed to be. I'm not fond of the time skip either, but from what I've heard the video game coming out bridges the gap a bit, so there's that at least. I will say that by my count, there are 6 Young Justice members we haven't seen yet and 4 new league members, not including Zatanna and Rocket, since season 1 ended.
As for the comment about dying... I don't think it's absurd to conclude that yes, Jason Todd did exist and die in this universe. It's a huge part of Batman mythos, and Weisman's enough of a nerd he wouldn't let it go to waste.
Edit: Sorry, I'm off. it's 3 League and 5 YJ. Math borked up in mah brain meat.
Spoiler
Nightwing! TIM!
I think I'm okay with the time jump, it's really brought in some new status quos and characters. Very curious how they're going to manage the cast.
When the show was first announced I was disappointed that Dick was Robin and Wally Kid Flash, but now Tim is in it so that's cool.
Y'know, I actually liked their version of Dick Grayson more than I've liked any other interpretation of the character... Admittedly I'm basing most of my opinions of the character on other media like BTAS and Teen Titans (being too young to have read comics when he was still Robin), but I've always hated him in the Robin role... either he's got the pre-nightwing AGST, he's played as having mini-Batman ANGST, or he's "generic sidekick #5." That's why Benton and I will probably fight to the death over the Nightwing situation... it is my contention that the character didn't become interesting and worthwhile until AFTER assuming the role of Nightwing, despite his annoying daddy issues. Young Justice was able to give him a personality and a character that was not only more or less unique to Dick (Murs and I have discussed how it borrowed elements from Tim and Damian, but still maintains its own identity), but that brought Dick Grayson back to being the light to Batman's dark.
So yeah, I'm excited to see Tim in the series, but it wouldn't have angered me if he wasn't in there.
Also: Murs brought up the fact that the "missing" 3 league members might be KF, Kaldur'am, and Artemis, but apparently Black Lightning was in one of the shots, so at least one of them is still not League material.
Quote from: Tomato on May 04, 2012, 01:25:49 AM
Y'know, I actually liked their version of Dick Grayson more than I've liked any other interpretation of the character... Admittedly I'm basing most of my opinions of the character on other media like BTAS and Teen Titans (being too young to have read comics when he was still Robin), but I've always hated him in the Robin role... either he's got the pre-nightwing AGST, he's played as having mini-Batman ANGST, or he's "generic sidekick #5." That's why Benton and I will probably fight to the death over the Nightwing situation... it is my contention that the character didn't become interesting and worthwhile until AFTER assuming the role of Nightwing, despite his annoying daddy issues. Young Justice was able to give him a personality and a character that was not only more or less unique to Dick (Murs and I have discussed how it borrowed elements from Tim and Damian, but still maintains its own identity), but that brought Dick Grayson back to being the light to Batman's dark.
How exactly did the TAS Robin NOT fulfill that roll? He had his own personality, he had a good, mostly non-angsty relationship with Bats, and he consistently was the light-hearted counterpart for Bruce. Until Timm and co. sold out with the totally-not-Batman:TAS return season, Robin was pretty comfortable with the Robin roll. Haha, don't get me wrong, I have certainly enjoyed Dick's roll and characterization in this series, but for my money, the definitive Batman everything is and always will be TAS. :D
Yep, I'm willing to fight to the bitter end on the Nightwing question. ;) I actually have read some of the comics when Dick was Robin, and he was definitely a worthwhile character. He does have the misfortune of a terrible costume, though. That's why the DCUG version uses the TAS costume.
Honestly, I always found Dick to be kind of boring in TAS. Robin's supposed to be a fun, showy character (Dick's a circus performer, he SHOULD be more showy than Bruce) and in TAS he was this stereotype college student, to the point where one episode had him explaining to Bruce Wayne how VR worked (I can accept Bruce not being an expert on EVERYTHING, but that scene felt like a kid was explaining to his grandparent "how the internets worked"). And before you leap to defending BTAS over TNBA, they laid out the groundwork for his eventual freakout on Bruce even in those early episodes, and the fact that they at least gave a solid resolution in TNBA to his issues ("Old Wounds") is something even DC was incapable of for the longest time.
Invariably, the problem Dick has always had in the Robin role is that he's almost the stereotypical sidekick... as long as he was just Robin, he was relegated to an inferior and unable to establish himself as a character EXCEPT in comparison to Bruce. It wasn't really until New Teen Titans that Dick started to get an identity of his own, and part of his character evolution was that he was able to grow beyond "sidekick" and become a leader of his own team (something Young Justice was able to portray MUCH better than Teen Titans), and becoming "Nightwing" was a natural part of that progression.
Quote from: BentonGrey on May 04, 2012, 02:37:32 AMHe does have the misfortune of a terrible costume, though. That's why the DCUG version uses the TAS costume.
And the TAS costume is basically Tim's first costume.
I like Dick, good character, fine Robin - but that was what, nearly 30 years ago. I really wish more media would get up to date.
Err... Pod? Pretty much every media incarnation of Dick Grayson post-Batman and Robin has either shown Dick as or becoming Nightwing (BTAS, B&B, Young Justice, Under the Red Hood) or has at least indicated that's where he's headed (Teen Titans, The Batman). About the only two shows where Nightwing HASN'T at least come up are "The New Frontier" (which only barely introduces him as Robin) and "Krypto the Super Dog." Hell, "Batman and Robin" is arguably suspect, since even IT portrays Dick in a costume that was pretty much a carbon copy of the Nightwing garb even before DC chose to emulate its colors.
Well, Mr. Tomato...you really might wanna read some old skool TT comics from when DG was leader of the team. I agree that YJ does a great job of showing why DG doesn't want to be Batman, but they do a poor job of showing how he's a much better team leader than Bats (at least not yet). He's almost always been his own guy and very far from a Batman lite.
Quote from: thalaw2 on May 04, 2012, 07:08:35 AM
Well, Mr. Tomato...you really might wanna read some old skool TT comics from when DG was leader of the team. I agree that YJ does a great job of showing why DG doesn't want to be Batman, but they do a poor job of showing how he's a much better team leader than Bats (at least not yet). He's almost always been his own guy and very far from a Batman lite.
*cough*
Quote from: Tomato on May 04, 2012, 02:51:02 AM
It wasn't really until New Teen Titans that Dick started to get an identity of his own, and part of his character evolution was that he was able to grow beyond "sidekick" and become a leader of his own team (something Young Justice was able to portray MUCH better than Teen Titans), and becoming "Nightwing" was a natural part of that progression.
I'll admit I maybe didn't phrase it spectacularly, but I DO acknowledge that Dick stepping into a leadership role as a member of the Titans is perhaps one of the greatest highlights of the character, but it's my contention that his progression on Teen Titans was an essential part of his transition to Nightwing. Now, admittedly, we haven't seen YJ's Robin take on leadership AS MUCH, but the few times he took the reigns in season 1 (M'gann's dream sequence being a big one) he's arguably a far
better team lead than Kaldur is, he just wasn't quite ready to handle it full time. It's pretty heavily emphasized throughout the season that Kaldur's leadership is only temporary... he leads them because he's the most mature person on the team, but he's not really suited for it (as seen with the Clayface situation in the comics, his handling of the potential mole, etc.). In a way, because we get to see someone else in that role, it actually underlines WHY Dick Grayson is a talented leader far more than Amerime Teen Titan's "Derp, he's Robin, that means he leads, derp"
Quote from: Tomato on May 04, 2012, 04:00:05 AM
Err... Pod? Pretty much every media incarnation of Dick Grayson post-Batman and Robin has either shown Dick as or becoming Nightwing (BTAS, B&B, Young Justice, Under the Red Hood) or has at least indicated that's where he's headed (Teen Titans, The Batman). About the only two shows where Nightwing HASN'T at least come up are "The New Frontier" (which only barely introduces him as Robin) and "Krypto the Super Dog." Hell, "Batman and Robin" is arguably suspect, since even IT portrays Dick in a costume that was pretty much a carbon copy of the Nightwing garb even before DC chose to emulate its colors.
I agree with all that but what I mean is if I ask a number of non-comics reading people who Dick Grayson is I expect the vast majority will say Robin, and most won't even know what a Nightwing is. I wish we were in a place where more people could identify Nightwing, and to do that more media needs to portray him that way. With TT and The Batman it's just an odd episode or two, easy to forget, not see, or miss the importance. Thumbs up to TAS and B&B on this front though. This is why I was very disappointed with YJ when it was first announced (I'm also a fan of the original YJ comic as well so that plays into it). First season was great bu I'm very excited to see how use Nightwing and Robin going forward.
The Bat family is my favorite part of the Bat verse.
Quote from: Tomato on May 04, 2012, 02:51:02 AM
Honestly, I always found Dick to be kind of boring in TAS. Robin's supposed to be a fun, showy character (Dick's a circus performer, he SHOULD be more showy than Bruce) and in TAS he was this stereotype college student, to the point where one episode had him explaining to Bruce Wayne how VR worked (I can accept Bruce not being an expert on EVERYTHING, but that scene felt like a kid was explaining to his grandparent "how the internets worked"). And before you leap to defending BTAS over TNBA, they laid out the groundwork for his eventual freakout on Bruce even in those early episodes, and the fact that they at least gave a solid resolution in TNBA to his issues ("Old Wounds") is something even DC was incapable of for the longest time.
Invariably, the problem Dick has always had in the Robin role is that he's almost the stereotypical sidekick... as long as he was just Robin, he was relegated to an inferior and unable to establish himself as a character EXCEPT in comparison to Bruce. It wasn't really until New Teen Titans that Dick started to get an identity of his own, and part of his character evolution was that he was able to grow beyond "sidekick" and become a leader of his own team (something Young Justice was able to portray MUCH better than Teen Titans), and becoming "Nightwing" was a natural part of that progression.
Ehh, 'Mato I feel like you're stretching a good deal here and perhaps looking back on TAS with a jaundiced eye. First off, Robin was a pretty showy character in comparison to Bruce. He's often flashy and dashing, and he's almost always light-hearted, just having a good time with his crime fighting. He treats the whole caped crusader thing like what it is for him, an adventure! This was shown in big ways, like when he's toying with the thugs in the beginning of "Robin's Reckoning." It's shown in small ways, like when he just casually does flips and aerial acrobatics when spying on Ivy in "Home and Garden." He's clever, he's brave, and he's his own man. I always loved the character in TAS, and he was pretty darn distinct.
Second, you are looking at the show out of its context. The one with the VR device was written in the 90's, and SOMEONE has to explain VR to the audience, because it wasn't realistic to assume they would instantly recognize the concept. Dick knowing about it made more sense than Batman knowing it, since in the setting it was associated with video games, something that Batman's generation in the story wouldn't have been familiar with. Was Dick a college student? Sure, but I'd hardly say he was stereotypical. You're attaching too much importance to practical storytelling choices.
Third, you say that the seeds for Dick's "freak out" were planted in the original TAS episodes? Well, I think that is only really true in retrospect, with the lens that the TNBA episodes place on those events. Several episodes deal with the relationship between Bruce and Dick, but the issues they play on are, in all of them, dealt with pretty effectively in the episodes themselves. I'm not saying that it was a gigantic leap for the TNBA show to take him in that direction, but I am saying it was far from necessary. It's that contentious parting, and the ugliness of character it imputed to both Batman AND Robin, that have always made me hate the Nightwing story, and by extension, the character.
I've never had a problem with Dick in the sidekick role. It works, and works well. The TAS stories are fantastic, and he's a great character in that setting. With that being said though, I've got zero problem with him going off on his own and "growing up." It's always been my plan to tell some stories with Dick as Red Robin eventually in the DCUG. In fact, if he were Red Robin rather than Nightwing in YJ, I wouldn't mind it at all, provided there wasn't a new Robin showing up. It's the nature of Nightwing's origin that I can't stand, and I've always found the multiple Robin thing very stupid. There just happens happens to be this string of kids who look pretty much exactly alike and, through several series of events, all of some level of the ridiculous, end up being taken on and trained by Bruce? It just gets silly after a point. That kind of artifact of the serial, unplanned nature of comics is a pretty good example of the kind of stupid concept I created the DCUG to excise.
Let me be clear. I really enjoy the way YJ has portrayed Dick. It's fun, and it works for me because he's a younger character than he was in TAS. This could be the same kid, really, as he's yet to grow up and become the more confident, capable man we see in the ideal Bat-series. ;) If you enjoy it, that's great. I've got no problem with this show. It's good, and I'm watching it. I do think, however, that you're seeing this new show's portrayal of Dick as being better, at least in part, because we get to see more of him than we did in most of the TAS episodes. He's at the center of a good number of the stories, and thus we get to know him better in a shorter time frame. Still, for my money TAS did more with and for the character than this show has so far, and with the economy of time and storytelling that is remarkable in Timm's shows.
Quote from: Tomato on May 04, 2012, 08:16:48 AM
Quote from: thalaw2 on May 04, 2012, 07:08:35 AM
Well, Mr. Tomato...you really might wanna read some old skool TT comics from when DG was leader of the team. I agree that YJ does a great job of showing why DG doesn't want to be Batman, but they do a poor job of showing how he's a much better team leader than Bats (at least not yet). He's almost always been his own guy and very far from a Batman lite.
*cough*
Quote from: Tomato on May 04, 2012, 02:51:02 AM
It wasn't really until New Teen Titans that Dick started to get an identity of his own, and part of his character evolution was that he was able to grow beyond "sidekick" and become a leader of his own team (something Young Justice was able to portray MUCH better than Teen Titans), and becoming "Nightwing" was a natural part of that progression.
I'll admit I maybe didn't phrase it spectacularly, but I DO acknowledge that Dick stepping into a leadership role as a member of the Titans is perhaps one of the greatest highlights of the character, but it's my contention that his progression on Teen Titans was an essential part of his transition to Nightwing. Now, admittedly, we haven't seen YJ's Robin take on leadership AS MUCH, but the few times he took the reigns in season 1 (M'gann's dream sequence being a big one) he's arguably a far better team lead than Kaldur is, he just wasn't quite ready to handle it full time. It's pretty heavily emphasized throughout the season that Kaldur's leadership is only temporary... he leads them because he's the most mature person on the team, but he's not really suited for it (as seen with the Clayface situation in the comics, his handling of the potential mole, etc.). In a way, because we get to see someone else in that role, it actually underlines WHY Dick Grayson is a talented leader far more than Amerime Teen Titan's "Derp, he's Robin, that means he leads, derp"
My bad.....
Benton, I'm not going to go into the timmverse stuff with you, except to say that I do disagree with you on quite a lot here... I've already explained that I feel like you and several others are looking at the old Timm cartoons through rose colored glasses and exaggerating the good over the bad(Similarly, but not as exaggeratedly, as TUE's obsession with MOTU when the original show was only two steps above garbage), and that's not going to change because you wax poetic about it. I agree that the villains here are not nearly as fun, interesting, or innovative as the ones in EMH or the Timm shows, but otherwise I personally relate to the writing and storytelling methods of Young Justice better. I acknowledge we have a differing opinion here, and am getting really tired of harping on it.
Now, Nightwing. I'm just going to say it: you're being a stubborn fool on that point and the saddest thing is, you're a smart enough guy to know it. Changing the name of the character to "Red Robin" is meaningless and ultimately idiotic. I know you see the Nightwing persona as a representation of his baggage with Bruce, but pretty much everyone else sees Nightwing as EXACTLY what you're talking about: Dick assuming his own identity as an adult. You can make Dick Nightwing WITHOUT going into the ZOMG DRAMA that was introduced in the comics... even TNBA was mostly mild and the entire issue Dick had was shown to be more or less a misunderstanding. Other adaptations, including B&B of all things, were able to present that transition as a mostly positive one. We've seen nothing in YJ so far to indicate that Dick had any sort of major falling out with Batman or that any ANGST happened, just that he grew up and assumed a new role.
Dick Grayson is Nightwing. Period.
Now, Tim. I've explained before that Tim is my favorite version of Robin, but I don't think I've explained WHY. The main reason I like Tim in the Robin role, over pretty much anyone else to have used the persona, is that Tim genuinely WANTED to take up that mantle specifically. Dick assumed the role of Robin during his childhood, and even if there hadn't been any issues with Bruce he still would likely have set the role aside for that very reason just as a natural part of his coming of age (again, changing his name to "Red Robin" is worthless in this context, because he's NOT setting aside his childhood at all if he just adds "Red" to the name).
Contrast that with Tim: Here's a kid who's saw Dick Grayson's origin story, figured out his and Bruce's identities through some kind of photographic memory, and who became Robin because he fundamentally understood that there needed to be a light to Batman's dark. Unlike Dick, who eventually HAD to set aside the mantle of Robin as a remnant of his childhood, Tim genuinely WANTED the role: He didn't have brutally murdered parents, he didn't have a ton of ANGST like Bruce, he just wanted to help people. That in and of himself is almost a BETTER contrast to Bruce's origin and backstory than Dick EVER was, because Dick's origin is fundamentally just as dark as Bruce's was... darker, in some respects. In many ways, Tim was the Anti-DG... whereas Dick Grayson was probably a more gifted athlete and natural leader than Bruce was, Tim came into those roles unnaturally... but where Tim shines, as a character, is that he's SMART, probably more-so than even Bruce. He figured out Bruce's secret identity as a CHILD, something supposedly incredibly intelligent adults such as Riddler haven't really managed to do.
Now, to put things in a broader context, I also didn't mind Tim's transition to the Red Robin role pre-reboot. As I said, DG almost HAD to set aside the Robin role, but Tim never really wanted to... He was perfectly content staying Robin into his adulthood. But like Dick, Tim needed to set aside the role of a child, and the introduction of Damian (who I do enjoy as a character but who I don't think really fills the role of a Robin to Bruce's Batman) provided the necessary push to get him moving in that direction. And again, unlike DG, who had a need to set aside the Robin role entirely, Tim taking on the role of Red Robin was natural: He didn't need to set aside the role of Robin entirely, he just needed to take it on in a more adult and distinct manner.
So yeah, I'm not going to lie, I'm actually offended by your flippant dismissal of Tim as a character. Angry, even. You may want to shut your eyes and plug your ears and pretend that life doesn't move on and your Robin is still around and blah blah blah, but GDI, Tim Drake was MY Robin, and I'm getting really tired of you taking a dump on him all the time.
Haha, my goodness 'Mato, I thought we were just having a pleasant discussion, but it seems that you've taken it to heart! I suppose I wasn't as clear and specific as I should have been in my post, but part of the point that I was trying to make was that there is a great deal of this that is just perspective. If you're finding so much to be fond of in YJ, then that's awesome, and I'm glad you're enjoying it so much. If you don't view TAS the way I do, well I can understand that, but I was just addressing the specific failings of the TAS interpretation of Dick that you mentioned which didn't make sense to me. I have not been trying to offend you, and if any of my comments troubled you, I apologize. I, however, never called you a fool for disagreeing with me, 'Mato.
Below is a clarification of my thoughts for those interested, but I'm going to spoiler it so as not to present a block of text and eat up page space for those who don't care:
Spoiler
My distaste for the Nightwing identity is largely just drawn from the my distaste for the mechanism by which he takes said name. The character himself doesn't necessarily have anything wrong with him. I read and loved the classic New Teen Titans books, and I've read other books with him in them. I've never been fond of the name, nor most of the costumes, but the character, especially as he was portrayed in NTT, is essentially a good one, when the readers aren't drowned in angst over his transition. Like I said, I can see that I wasn't as clear as I perhaps should have been, but I thought that my previous comments about YJ would be enough to explain the context for my statements. Let me be a bit more precise. I said: "In fact, if he were Red Robin rather than Nightwing in YJ, I wouldn't mind it at all, provided there wasn't a new Robin showing up." As I've said before, I don't really mind the changes in YJ, and that is largely BECAUSE we've seen no "Ohh my goodness, ANGST!" story with Dick. So, he's suddenly Nightwing, I'm pretty okay with that. My point was that I would have zero mixed feelings about it if it weren't for the associations that the Nightwing name has for me. See, that was a big point of my post, this is the way I'm viewing these characters personally. The point was that he's not objectively ruined or a bad character or anything, but that I often can't help but think of those annoying stories when I see Nightwing.
In the same way, the character of Tim Drake is one that I don't dislike. I know what you're thinking, 'but Benton, you've talked about how much you hate other Robins,' and you're right. That's the issue. I have very little real experience with Tim Drake. He's largely from the periods where I wasn't reading mainstream books, and he's not been in my favorite shows. I don't have anything against the character, in and of himself. In fact, he's basically a non-entity with me. I can totally understand why 'Mato and others like him. That's great, and he sounds like a nice character. What bothers me is the structure put in place to bring him into the story. It doesn't make sense to me. It's like the narrative gymnastics required to explain the various versions of Hawkman. Now, I'm not talking specifically about Tim's origin, so before 'Mato blows a gasket, let me be as clear as I can. The problem I have with the story is the larger narrative. You've got Dick going off to be his own man in a badly written arc which wasn't dealt with properly for a long time. Okay, I think that's a story telling misstep, but then he's replaced by Jason Todd, who happens to look just like him. Bruce, who had a very good and compelling reason for adopting Dick, and eventually, for taking him on as a partner, inexplicably takes on this new kid as well. That one dies horribly, and then Bruce picks up YET ANOTHER ONE. Now we're on, what, our fifth Robin? It never made sense to me that Bruce would take on a second partner, much less a fifth, especially after what happened to some of the others. That's ridiculous to me. Yeah, Tim's origin may have been well written. I haven't read it, so I'm not going to judge it, but the stream of Robins strikes me as silly, and for that reason, I'm not a fan of the concept.
Now, like I've said before, on the face of it, I have no problem with legacy characters. As a matter of fact, I think it would be fantastic if DC actually figured out what the heck they were doing and moved their characters through some actual growth and change, eventually retiring a lot of the old guard. However, every time they try to do that, they torture the original character horribly, and then expect us to be happy when they pull their replacement out of nowhere! Dick taking over as Batman makes perfect sense, though it happening because Batman was killed would make me sad. It happening because Bruce finally finds peace and settles down...well, I'd love to read that story (part of the reason I always liked the Earth-2 stories). New characters are often handicapped by the way they're introduced and the baggage loaded on them by their association with the terrible nature of the change that creates them. I've talked about this before with Ryan Choi. I love Ray Palmer, he's a great character, and when DC did such terrible, terrible things to him in order to bring in a new character, I hated him at first. It took me a long time to look past that and realize that Ryan Choi was an awesome character in his own right. If he had been brought in through a more natural progression, I'd have had a much easier time embracing him.
In a lesser way, this is the issue with Dick Grayson and his replacements as Robin. You give me a story that doesn't involve such terrible writing and so much torture for characters I love, and I'll be much more open to it. Thus, I have no real issues with having Dick be Nightwing, though I'm still leery of the new Robin thing because of my discomfort with the whole concept of revolving Robins. If YJ tells good stories with Tim AND Dick, great, I look forward to it, but I'm just a little wary because I've been burned before.
I hope that clears things up a bit.
Whatever you people are talking about is boring. I have deemed it so, so it must be, and it would do you all well to just bow at my feet, for I am a King... and some of you are my daughters. Let's not discuss it; it's awkward. *adjusts cape*
Now, let's listen to what I have to say. Benton, I find you to be incredibly offensive. I'd like you to apologize to me and all of FR for your continued practice in the disgusting display of love for Aquadork. Let it be done... NAO!
In other news, new episode of YJ today! Any thoughts on the developments of Beast Boy, Miss Martian, and Superboy?
Overall, I liked this morning's episode. Superboy's character development seems to have come a long way [in the past 5 years].
Also, I'm starting to find Beast Boy a little annoying, which I didn't expect. Whereas in the Teen Titans show, I found him weird and hilarious, in this episode he just came across as an immature little brother who repeats the same phrase until he gets the attention he wants. I suppose that makes sense, given his now revealed orphaned status and unique relationship with Miss Martian.
Speaking of that green lady, I was a little confused as to what she did to that alien at the end. It looked to me like she was just probing his mind intensively, which got her the info she wanted but left him a shriveling little zombie. It reminded me of what Martian Manhunter did to the Thanagarian in the "Starcrossed" episode of Justice League. I kinda figured Me'gan's dark side was behind her given the resolution of Season 1, but it appears that she's still got some inner demons she has yet to exorcise.
Should make for an interesting season.
New episode thoughts:
Spoiler
Superboy never appearing to age is weird - what use is encoding for that, when genetically-engineering Superman's replacement? Wouldn't you want him to eventually look like Superman? Weird. A few nice reveals about the annoying 5 year gap (Beast Boy's mom getting killed, Superboy breaking up with Miss Martian - though not really the why) and Miss Martian seems to have developed quite a hard edge, along with density shifting - she went through the wall of the enemy base/ship, right? And in this iteration of the characters, is Adam Strange going to become the Mad Hatter?
Spoiler
Was he was released early, wasn't he Talavar?
I figure this whole season will be reveals about the gap, and obviously about where the League was. Also, I am wondering if the INVASION title is actually referring to the Apokolips invasion that they have slowly been hinting at since the beginning. Could "The Light" really be a front for Darkseid?
The more I watch of this show and see all the threads weave together, the more I really enjoy it.
PS: I checked out the wikipedia episode guide (I couldn't help it!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Young_Justice_episodes
"Nightwing and others reach out to a former comrade."
Aqualad? Kid Flash?
Then, later: "The Spectre takes the team to the world of death where they see former team members who died."
Again, who's it gonna be? Oooo... Plus, gives more credence to Tim's "Don't die" comment.
Well...I wasn't expecting that.
Spoiler
So, Aqualad is serving Black Manta as Manta 2.0? Crazy. It doesn't seem to be a deep cover thing either, as he just murdered a whole heck of a lot of aliens. Also, nitpick, MM didn't notice that Martian Girl just psychically lobotomized that alien? I also didn't care for Aquaman dropping after getting hit in the shoulder by the Manta beams. He's tougher than that! Come on. :P
That was a very interesting episode, though I'm more than a little sad that Aquagirl was apparently part of the team, but died before we ever really got to see her! That breaks my heart a bit, though their version of Tula wasn't exactly a lot like the classic version.
Spoiler
Benton, even by your usual standards, your aqua-logic is flawed. First, the next shot of his shoulder showed no actual damage... so yeah, he may have been pushed back, but he wasn't really "injured". Second, this is a weapon crafted by one of Aquaman's greatest foes... you don't go into battle with someone without having the capability of doing them serious harm.
Which actually begs the question... why didn't it do real damage? The attack tore Aquaman's shirt a bit, but there's no gaping wound or serious burn there. I don't think it's because Aqualad's a double agent or anything, but it could indicate some hesitation on his part.
Spoiler
I don't mean that he was put down, but I was very mildly bothered (hence nitpick) when a glancing blow seemed to cause him so much trouble. I did really enjoy getting to see more of the actual League in action here, though.
I also enjoyed the angst-free Bat family dynamic we got to see in action here.
I think the laser thing is on par with how, say, Superman was clearly blown backwards by lasers as well. They didn't do any real damage, just knocked him back a little. And he's obviously a lot tougher than Aquaman.
Spoiler
I also really liked how, even though the place was going to explode, he stuck around to save the aliens they are basically trying to fight (and presumable must kill throwing around their mechs like they do)... Total Superman. I'm actually fond of most of the characterizations in this show.
Oh, btw... I kept meaning to put this up, but for those who haven't been keeping up with the YJ: Legacy game (as a fan you all might want to, it's supposed to help bridge the gap between s1 and s2) the full list of heroes and villains is up... Most of the characters are using their s2 looks (Dick=Nightwing, Tim=Robin, that sort of thing) but there are some interesting additions... Aqualad is still in his old duds, Kid flash is also essentially the same (but the artwork seems to be new, so he might be older), Artemis uses the old artwork but grayed out (stealth tech), and Tempest is an official member of the team.
It really has been a while since I can remember seeing Batman fighting alongside Nightwing, Robin, and Batgirl on TV. This episode really showed what a great team the Bat-family makes.
This episode reminded me of why I really don't care for Superman's voice. I don't know how to describe what's wrong with it other than the fact that it just doesn't sound "Superman-ish." At one point today, it almost sounded like Supes had some weird accent that I couldn't place. Oh well, that's a subjective matter.
I can't help but think we may not be seeing the "Magnificent Six" leaguers for a while; it seems like they are being conveniently written out of the plot for a while so that the focus can shift to the YJ team and the intensifying Invasion threat. I wonder if The Light's whole purpose of "The Sixteen Hours" would be to draw the Big Guns off-world at Earth's most desperate hour. Batman's fear about the real danger being on Earth may prove prophetic.
Also... I'm really starting to wonder what happened to both Flash (Barry Allen) and Kid Flash (Wally West) between seasons.
Very interesting episode...
Spoiler
the combo of Tula dying and the Black Manta parentage reveal I can buy as cause for Aqualad's betrayal (mostly). The Krolotaens (sp?) referred to Blue Beetle as a warrior of the Competition, making the Competitor the Reach, if I'm not mistaken.
I was sad Aqualad didnt maim Aquaman. Perhaps next time.
I really enjoyed seeing how efficient the Bat family was. Certainly an interesting episode for Aqualad.
This episode answer a lot of questions but:
Spoiler
What about speedy? And Rocket is the only one who knows that Icon is an alien?
Jey, about your last point
Spoiler
I don't think so - at the end of the episode, you notice how they said Icon knows a bit about "interstellar law" in a way that they knew HOW he had direct dealings with it. I think a good chunk of the league knows.
"Salvage"
:lol:
Wally West, that sly dog...
Can we now refer to Roy and West are
Spoiler
brothers-in-law
?
I wasn't crazy about this episode, but I will say this.
Spoiler
They actually managed to give Red Arrow a more legitimate reason to be so messed up than the comics did. You can understand someone who has lost his entire identity marrying a super villain and all this other stuff. All-in-all, though, ehh.
This show just got real. :o
Hey, a TV reference to Ted Kord - is that a first?
Quote from: Talavar on May 20, 2012, 08:17:30 PM
Hey, a TV reference to Ted Kord - is that a first?
Didn't he appear in Brave and the Bold?
Latest episode:
Spoiler
Well that's everyone accounted for then. I wonder how much Wally and Artemis will appear now, and whether their retirement will be permanent.
Not sure why but I liked Jaime better in B&B. He kinda annoys me in this show.
I find Red Arrow one of the more interesting parts of this show. I'm wondering if Jade is lying to him, and Lian's not even really his.
Quote from: Talavar on May 20, 2012, 08:17:30 PM
Hey, a TV reference to Ted Kord - is that a first?
No. As Pod mentioned, he appears in several flashbacks in B&B and is referenced in several scenes with Reyes. He also appeared in Smallville, though not as BB, in the "Booster" episode.
Spoilered just in case:
Spoiler
I'm curious to know what pushed Wally to abandon the hero business. If a guy can not only travel faster than the speed of sound but also enjoy it immensely, than there's got to be a very profound reason as to why he gave it all up. Maybe he and Artemis just wanted to "settle down" and have a safe, comfortable life and further their education, but I think it probably has to be more than that.
I'm still thinking that Barry Allen died sometime between seasons, and maybe the pain of his passing made Wally's family persuade him to give up his heroism exploits.
If so, then my guess is that another tragedy might push Wally back into the superhero gig to avenge a fallen friend... or lover.
Oh, so it's just the first Ted Kord reference on a show worth watching *rimshot*
Looks like Flash is appearing in next week's episode, so you may have your question answered.
As for this week, it was pretty good, though Jamie's plot ended up being entirely set-up (though the character interaction with the suit was interesting - can a suit switch to decaf?) The other plot was very solid though - some great bits with the female YJers (Batgirl got the best line during the mission brief).
One question: Could part of Jamie's plot have been a ref to Apache Chief - (his friend, and his friend's grandfather)?
I never realized (though I suppose I should have) that the 'J' in Jamie Reyes is pronounced the Spanish way, 'H.' Just something I never clued into I guess. Definitely liked the YJ all-female squad (and Nightwing's awkwardness about describing it as such).
Is it just me, or is Miss Martian a little scary now?
Quote from: Talavar on May 29, 2012, 05:45:36 AM
I never realized (though I suppose I should have) that the 'J' in Jamie Reyes is pronounced the Spanish way, 'H.' Just something I never clued into I guess.
His name is actually spelled
Jaime not Jamie too. It took me a long time to notice that. I don't think I did until he appeared in B&B, certainly didn't realize that was how it was pronounced.
Quote from: Glitch Girl on May 27, 2012, 07:03:19 PM
One question: Could part of Jamie's plot have been a ref to Apache Chief - (his friend, and his friend's grandfather)?
Spoiler
Well remember the group were clones/modified kids in JLU. Maybe this will be a reference back to that JLU storyline? ....oh crap, i get it now. and it could tie into the search for roy harper too!
"Bloodlines"
That was probably one of my favorite episodes of the whole series. I love these "Flash Family" focused stories.
Spoiler
I was shocked to see just how "off the pace" Wally West is compared to the Allen family heroes. That was hilarious.
Pretty spooky ending to the episode though.
I'm not really up on Wally West's 'Kid Flash' days - why is he so much slower?
Did anyone notice that Flash directed that civilian to a shelter "on Fox and Gardner", lol.
Quote from: Talavar on June 02, 2012, 07:22:01 PM
I'm not really up on Wally West's 'Kid Flash' days - why is he so much slower?
My guess is that it is partly because he's been "retired" for a little while and is somewhat out of shape/practice. Either that, or else he didn't bring his "game face" and got embarrassed by his more enthusiastic and focused counterparts.
Speaking of which, I was surprised he just put his costume back on and went out to the battle without any acknowledgement of his "post hero" status.
Quote from: captainawesome on June 02, 2012, 07:34:45 PM
Did anyone notice that Flash directed that civilian to a shelter "on Fox and Gardner", lol.
Ha, that was pretty clever.
I'm not too educated in my DC geography. Is Central City a stand-in for St. Louis? That was the first time I've ever seen a giant arch in a DC cartoon, and I figure St. Louis' "Gateway to the West" moniker would make it a prime candidate to be a "central" city.
Actually, Wally being that much slower is a nod to the original comics. In the days after becoming the flash, Wally was very limited in how fast he was capable of going. There's a pretty good book called "The Return of Barry Allen" that explored that fact, and ends with Wally overcoming those limitations.
Quote from: Tomato on June 02, 2012, 11:10:36 PM
Actually, Wally being that much slower is a nod to the original comics. In the days after becoming the flash, Wally was very limited in how fast he was capable of going. There's a pretty good book called "The Return of Barry Allen" that explored that fact, and ends with Wally overcoming those limitations.
Now you got me curious, 'Mato! Until I can track down a copy of that book and read it for myself, care to clue me in as to just what Wally's limitations were and how he overcame them?
I actually does make sense that Wally is significantly slower than Barry and Impulse in this episode, on account of how long it took him to travel across the continental United States in the "Coldhearted" episode. Granted, it was in severely icy conditions and he had to be careful not to damage the heart he was carrying in his pack, but I was surprised at how it actually took him a few hours to make that trip. I couldn't help but think that Barry Allen probably could have made the trip safely in under an hour.
This weeks episode was quite possibly the best episode of the series so far! :thumbup:
This one I enjoyed. Y'all know that Barry is a favorite of mine, so it was really cool to see him animated...though I'd have liked to see a bit more of him in action. It was really cool to see the Flash family, though. This was a good episode, and I definitely enjoyed the twist. I like the metagene angle they're taking with the show. I think that's got potential for interesting stories. However, this episode highlighted something for me once again. One of YJ's greatest weaknesses is its voice acting. Many of the voice actors are just adequate, not really breathing much life into their characters. I felt that way about the guy who played Barry. A better fit in voice acting could have made more of his short appearance. I will say this, though:
Spoiler
The entire episode I was expecting them to kill off Barry, and I was prepared to be unhappy about that, so I was very pleased when Impulse saved his life. That whole ending was handled very well.
Gotta agree with you, Benton - the voice acting on this show is a mixed bag. The core cast is good, but some of the choices for villains, League members and bit-parts isn't to the same standard.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on June 02, 2012, 11:34:53 PM
Quote from: Tomato on June 02, 2012, 11:10:36 PM
Actually, Wally being that much slower is a nod to the original comics. In the days after becoming the flash, Wally was very limited in how fast he was capable of going. There's a pretty good book called "The Return of Barry Allen" that explored that fact, and ends with Wally overcoming those limitations.
Now you got me curious, 'Mato! Until I can track down a copy of that book and read it for myself, care to clue me in as to just what Wally's limitations were and how he overcame them?
I actually does make sense that Wally is significantly slower than Barry and Impulse in this episode, on account of how long it took him to travel across the continental United States in the "Coldhearted" episode. Granted, it was in severely icy conditions and he had to be careful not to damage the heart he was carrying in his pack, but I was surprised at how it actually took him a few hours to make that trip. I couldn't help but think that Barry Allen probably could have made the trip safely in under an hour.
Basically it stemmed from Wally not wanting to surpass Barry... He subconsciously limited himself to not being able to vibrate through walls or run as fast because that would mean he had once and for all replaced his mentor. I won't go into the details on why he finally has to go beyond those limits (spoilers!) but in the end what pushes him to surpass his limitations is exactly what was holding him back: the fundamental need to protect Barry's legacy.
Like I said, it's a really classic Flash story, one of my personal favorites.
That's cool 'Mato. That sounds like a good story.
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 03, 2012, 06:16:38 PM
That's cool 'Mato. That sounds like a good story.
One of my favorite Flash stories as well. :thumbup:
BTW: Bloodlines was written by Peter David. And yes the Flash family is a fun group. Nice little shout out to "Fox Gardner" in there as well. As for the episode...
Spoilers ahoy!
Spoiler
This was one of those episodes, where I had to go back and watch it again after the reveal to really analyze Bart's dialogue (and to try to get a better look at the two "controllers" for lack of a better word). "Crash the Mode" indeed. I didn't realize just how much of the ditziness was an act, but even so, he dropped enough hints that there's a very good chance that Nightwing or even Kid Flash may have picked up he's hiding a BIG honkin' secret. That Neutron namedrop is definitely a big giveaway, though I think that one was a genuine accident. The rest... not so sure how many were on purpose and how many were part of the act.
It's a very different Bart that what I was used to, but I did not mind. I liked this version a lot. For the most part, I have liked the re-imaging of characters this series has done.
The scenes with the Flash family at the Garricks was a lot of fun. That bit about "Back in a flash!" and everyone sighing was very Peter David. I also liked the Wests found out it was going to be twins. I was surprised that Kid Flash is so much slower than Barry and Bart, but I never read the Flash much so now I know thanks to this thread.
I get the impression that Wally left the hero business to deal with college with Artemis. I remember in a prior episode when he was talking to Artemis about his paper that he needed some help with it, which implies that while he might be fast, he's someone who has to work to get good grades, and doing that while being on call 27/7 probably doesn't work. The fact that his girlfriend seems to be doing the college thing too is probably good incentive as well. We may know more after the next episode, which is an Artemis focused episode, but my theory is that Kid Flash is growing up.
The Controllers (I don't know what else to call them at present)... we know that they are alien (from the language), humanoid (from the silhouettes), working with the Kroatans (the whole "metagene" mention) though they may be using them (that bomb incident, the planter was also humanoid), and can control minds (Neutron while in the suit, and after not knowing what happened) and make superbeings (Neutron). The way the time stream exists now, they appear to have won (didn't crash the mode), though things are changing ever so slightly. Neutron may no longer leveled Mount Justice (implied, but not certain) but SOMETHING blew it up, as it remains blown up after the time shift which Neutron notices...
Yeah, about that. Time travel is a little hinky to deal with, but the fact he stayed behind and is aware of the change bugs me. I know they needed someone narrative-wise to point out that things are going to get really bad, but it still bugs me because he obviously was affected by the new timeline (from the prison garb and dampener collar to regular clothes in the instant Bart left).
Argh, time travel makes my head hurt.
As for the B story with Red Arrow and Cheshire looking for Speedy, that was fun, even if the Rule of Comedy overrode logic a bit (ie: Bringing Liam along). So the real Roy is... well back in the picture at least with people who will care for him, minus half an arm. I don't think that much genetic material was needed to make Red Arrow, so there's the question of what happened to it, and him for that matter. He hasn't woken up so who knows his mental state and what it may be when he finds out all the stuff he missed.
BTW: I think after next week's episode, there's going to be a break (BOOO!!), so be warned.
When I hear "Meta-gene", I immediately think of the:
Spoiler
The Dominators
.
Cyber Burn
Didn't know much about them, but now that I've looked them up, I think you're right.
Quote from: Cyber Burn on June 04, 2012, 02:17:55 AM
When I hear "Meta-gene", I immediately think of the: Spoiler
The Dominators
Indeed. I have all three of the main issues from that original "Invasion!" arc. I believe it was DC first big company crossover event after the Crisis reboot.
I always hated Bart until this epi. I couldn't stand to read any book with him in it...and when he showed up in YJ I was expecting it to go down the toilet. I'm glad they made him more mature.
This Invasion storyline has got me intrigued....I think the ultimate end bad guy is:
Spoiler
Darkseid. I know that the Reach is referenced (because Blue Beetle is one of their soldiers), but there are clues as to ol' Darky.
- G. Gordon Godfrey is a Darkseid minion
- In the comics, Godfrey turned public opinion against the JLA
- Darkseid "using" the Reach to advance his plans shows his ability to manipulate others
- Intergang and their Apokoliptian weaponry
- Beetles armor was ineffective against Apokoliptian tech
Just my two cents
Quote from: Thunder on June 06, 2012, 10:54:31 AM
Spoiler
Darkseid. I know that the Reach is referenced (because Blue Beetle is one of their soldiers), but there are clues as to ol' Darky.
- G. Gordon Godfrey is a Darkseid minion
- In the comics, Godfrey turned public opinion against the JLA
Once again, I feel so naive! I never even looked that up and just assumed the Godfrey character was a simple parody of opinionated talking TV heads.
Yay now we finally have all four of the core YJ from the comics. Those four are among my favorite DC characters.
Re: "Depths"
"There's no static on the psychic link!"
:lol:
Spoiler
Just when they had finally convinced him that Kaldur had really become a jaded scumbag, they went and pulled off ending like that!
While I was watching it (recorded) I couldn't quite tell if they were showing blood on Artemis's shirt or not, so when I went back and looked, I was fooled into thinking that "device" Nightwing placed on her chest was just supposed to be a blood stain. They fooled me on account of the fact that I didn't think the censors would let them get away with anything more explicit.
Also re: Depths
Spoiler
TOTALLY CALLED IT!! :D :D :D (now if I could only find the post where I actually did call it ;) ) I KNEW he was under deep cover! Though Nightwing and friends are gonna have some 'splain' to do when this is all over. They're keeping this on the QT, but why? Why can't they trust the team? And can anyone tell me who she's disguised as, if it's anyone of note?
The further revelation of why M'ghan and Conner broke up... ouch! She tried to make him forget... I'm starting to wonder if she's entirely in control or if there are subtle influences going on.
Have to admit, I really like Artemis and Wally as a couple.
Oh yeah, nice touch that Carol was dressed in the light purple reminiscent of Star Sapphires.
Quote from: Glitch Girl on June 10, 2012, 12:23:24 AM
Also re: Depths
Spoiler
TOTALLY CALLED IT!! :D :D :D (now if I could only find the post where I actually did call it ;) ) I KNEW he was under deep cover! Though Nightwing and friends are gonna have some 'splain' to do when this is all over. They're keeping this on the QT, but why? Why can't they trust the team? And can anyone tell me who she's disguised as, if it's anyone of note.
GG, you may have indeed "called it," but, as Nightwing stated, his hands aren't exactly clean either.
Also, I was so sure that I had "called it" on the event that would bring Wally West out of retirement:
http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=54686.msg751515#msg751515
Alas, the twist ending proved me wrong!
WOW!
This show just keeps you guessing until the end. This is a bit more mature or more serious than JLU ever was.
I feel ashamed to admit it, but the presence of Martian Manhunter at the Ferris press-conference didn't immediately set off caution flags in my mind that something was amiss. That was a pretty good fake out YJ pulled off.
Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 01:07:15 PM
This is a bit more mature or more serious than JLU ever was.
Uh... not quite.
In JLU, people died, some deaths were faked, heroes were beaten to within an inch of their life, and secrets sowed seeds of disunity and doubt both among the public and within the League.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on June 10, 2012, 05:43:12 PM
I feel ashamed to admit it, but the presence of Martian Manhunter at the Ferris press-conference didn't immediately set off caution flags in my mind that something was amiss. That was a pretty good fake out YJ pulled off.
Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 01:07:15 PM
This is a bit more mature or more serious than JLU ever was.
Uh... not quite.
In JLU, people died, some deaths were faked, heroes were beaten to within an inch of their life, and secrets sowed seeds of disunity and doubt both among the public and within the League.
Well YJ is heading that way then.
Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 06:58:29 PM
Quote from: oldmanwinters on June 10, 2012, 05:43:12 PM
I feel ashamed to admit it, but the presence of Martian Manhunter at the Ferris press-conference didn't immediately set off caution flags in my mind that something was amiss. That was a pretty good fake out YJ pulled off.
Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 01:07:15 PM
This is a bit more mature or more serious than JLU ever was.
Uh... not quite.
In JLU, people died, some deaths were faked, heroes were beaten to within an inch of their life, and secrets sowed seeds of disunity and doubt both among the public and within the League.
Well YJ is heading that way then.
It is getting pretty good this season.
Great episode! More Black Manta-Lad goodness! This episode reminded me of The Departed.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on June 10, 2012, 07:16:17 PM
Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 06:58:29 PM
Quote from: oldmanwinters on June 10, 2012, 05:43:12 PM
I feel ashamed to admit it, but the presence of Martian Manhunter at the Ferris press-conference didn't immediately set off caution flags in my mind that something was amiss. That was a pretty good fake out YJ pulled off.
Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 01:07:15 PM
This is a bit more mature or more serious than JLU ever was.
Uh... not quite.
In JLU, people died, some deaths were faked, heroes were beaten to within an inch of their life, and secrets sowed seeds of disunity and doubt both among the public and within the League.
Well YJ is heading that way then.
It is getting pretty good this season.
People have died in YJ. In season 1 Dr. Fate died...and told Wally to hook up with Artemis. Also, characters have taken a pretty good beating on more than 1 occasion.
Quote from: thalaw2 on June 10, 2012, 11:25:47 PM
People have died in YJ. In season 1 Dr. Fate died...and told Wally to hook up with Artemis. Also, characters have taken a pretty good beating on more than 1 occasion.
I was just trying to say all the mature themes in YJ aren't terribly new when compared to the totality of JLU & and DC Animated Universe.
That will probably be the last statement I make on the matter, since I really don't like the "This new show isn't as good as the older show" or
vice versa comparisons. My apologies for more-or-less bringing up the subject again.
No apologies necessary, Oldman...it's what we're here for.
Aww, did I miss a resurgence of the JLU vs. YJ conversation? Man, I miss all the fun.
But no, seriously, I'm still floored by this episode. You kinda knew the Mantalad deal, but the Artemis stuff, Miss Martian's tampering, that's been very interesting too.
No apologies needed.
So, did I somehow miss today's episode, or did they just stop mid-season again?
QuoteYOUNG JUSTICE/GREG WEISMAN UPDATE
We're going into hiatus for the time being, and since it's been a bit of a while since my last update...
SEASON ONE of YOUNG JUSTICE has all aired, but starting this Saturday and Sunday we'll be airing some reruns, including 119, "Misplaced" as part of Cartoon Network's DC Nation block. Check local listings or cable guides for times. If you jumped aboard with Invasion, and haven't seen these Season One episodes, you'll want to check them out. It's good stuff, I promise.
SEASON TWO of YOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION
*Episodes 201-207 have all aired. (How was "Depths" for a pre-hiatus cliffhanger? Not too shabby, huh?)
*Episodes 208-210 are in the can.
*Episode 211 has been edited and spotted for music and sound effects.
*Episode 212 is being edited.
*Episodes 213-218 are all overseas being animated.
*Episodes 219-220 are also overseas being animated, but we have a few more color models here in Burbank left to complete and approve.
This time we're seeing a genuine show hiatus, I think. 3 more episodes are "done" but they're probably using GL's season end to give themselves time to get a few more episodes in the can.
Anyone know if Season One is hitting DVD any time soon?
Quote from: Cyber Burn on June 17, 2012, 08:35:09 PM
Anyone know if Season One is hitting DVD any time soon?
Sadly, looks like the best we'll be getting is the last half of Season 1 packaged together:
http://www.amazon.com/Young-Justice-Dangerous-Jesse-McCartney/dp/B007RG8ZF2/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1339970905&sr=1-2&keywords=young+justice
I guess some sort of collection is better than none. Thanks Winters.
Just a heads up - Young Justice resumed airing new episodes this past week! I'll comment on it shortly.
That 'shortly' kind of got away on me. Now,
Satisfaction:
Spoiler
Original Roy wakes up in his hospital bed, and sets out for a little revenge. We see a lot of fallout for Artemis' 'death' from last episode, and I just can't help but think this isn't going to end well. Her mother or her sister (or her mother and her sister) are going to do something rash.
Anyway, it's great to have Young Justice back - did anyone else catch it? Either way, don't forget that there's another new episode tomorrow!
Great episode, I watched it twice and am really looking forward to tomorrow's episode.
Newest episode:
Darkest Spoiler
Aqualad, Artemis and friends attack the mountain, intent on providing information on the whereabouts of captured Lagoon Boy. More of the team gets captured in the process, and the cave blown up. It's another solid episode, but I had a couple of issues. The first is hardly unique to Young Justice, but it's the one-size-fits all power types power dampeners. The episode even makes the distinction between power types, rejecting Superboy as a candidate for capture because, as a half-Kryptonian clone, he lacks the metagene - but they still work on him. That they work on everyone apparently, only not on Blue Beetle because his beetle is able to essentially short-circuit it, is a really lazy plot device.
My other complaint is Young Justice specific: the uncanny uber-planning that Greg Weisman likes to use. In this episode Aqualad and Artemis are prepared for capturing Blue Beetle, which in this instance means realizing that he might be immune to the power dampeners that work on everyone else, that Aqualad's magic-based electricity would leave an opening in his armour that Artemis could hit with a tranq blow dart. It's a chain of tenuous suppositions, but presented to the viewer as a done deal. With that kind of foresight, Aqualad should just buy lottery tickets.
Cartoon Network Pre-Empts DC Nation Programming Block For Remainder Of October 2012 (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/2012/10/13/cartoon-network-pre-empts-dc-nation-programming-block-for-remainder-of-october-2012/) :angry:
This stinks too!!!
Is Cartoon Network trying to kill this show? Let's see: bring it back for only 2 new episodes, pre-empt it for no reason, then say you're giving in to the fans and reschedule it for months later - so yeah, Cartoon Network's trying to kill this show. Did Jeph Loeb become an executive there or something?
This whole thing with scheduling is just bizarre. I can almost understand waiting to bring back YJ until you had DC Nation up and running... but they clearly had new episodes in the pipeline. As sudden as this was (YJ and GL were still recorded by our DirectTV despite new episodes not airing) and given that many of the shows creators had no knowledge of what was going on... someone up top must have pulled a Loeb.
Edit: I just looked at Greg Weisman's website (or the fan site which he posts a lot on... whatever), and the latest post was very interesting.
QuoteYOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION: EPISODE: 210: "Before the Dawn": Premieres: this Saturday, October 13th as part of Cartoon Network's DC Nation block. (It repeats Sunday too.) Check local listings for times.
Keep in mind, this tenth episode of Season Two was plotted before we knew if we'd get the second half of the season. Once we got that pick-up, we assumed this would be our hiatus episode. Instead, we took the break after 207 (which was a great and exciting stopping point, so no complaints). But nothing changed about our story in 210. This is a significant episode on every level: plot, character and LOTS of action. Don't miss it!
I'm posting this reminder a couple days early, because I'm leaving this afternoon to head up to Ashland, Oregon for the Shakespeare Festival. But believe me, my DVR is set to record both YJ and Green Lantern.
Edit2: Huh... looked it up a bit more trying to find a reason behind this (about the best we've heard is some rumor about the milestone character rights, but it's vague at best) and apparently the latest YJ episode still aired on Itunes, so you can still legally watch it. bizarreness.
Quote from: Tomato on October 14, 2012, 10:10:36 PM
This whole thing with scheduling is just bizarre. I can almost understand waiting to bring back YJ until you had DC Nation up and running... but they clearly had new episodes in the pipeline. As sudden as this was (YJ and GL were still recorded by our DirectTV despite new episodes not airing) and given that many of the shows creators had no knowledge of what was going on... someone up top must have pulled a Loeb.
Edit: I just looked at Greg Weisman's website (or the fan site which he posts a lot on... whatever), and the latest post was very interesting.
QuoteYOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION: EPISODE: 210: "Before the Dawn": Premieres: this Saturday, October 13th as part of Cartoon Network's DC Nation block. (It repeats Sunday too.) Check local listings for times.
Keep in mind, this tenth episode of Season Two was plotted before we knew if we'd get the second half of the season. Once we got that pick-up, we assumed this would be our hiatus episode. Instead, we took the break after 207 (which was a great and exciting stopping point, so no complaints). But nothing changed about our story in 210. This is a significant episode on every level: plot, character and LOTS of action. Don't miss it!
I'm posting this reminder a couple days early, because I'm leaving this afternoon to head up to Ashland, Oregon for the Shakespeare Festival. But believe me, my DVR is set to record both YJ and Green Lantern.
Edit2: Huh... looked it up a bit more trying to find a reason behind this (about the best we've heard is some rumor about the milestone character rights, but it's vague at best) and apparently the latest YJ episode still aired on Itunes, so you can still legally watch it. bizarreness.
Yeah, read about the Milestone character rights, but it shouldn't be a factor for Green Lantern and the DC Nation shorts. WB should bring back WB kids or create a network for their animation. CN is just messed up.
well the theory was that CN took them all down so they could air all the episodes together, but there's no evidence of the milestone rights being a factor at all. It's just a bizarre situation.
Milestone? Really? I thought DC bought the rights to them?
they did, but some writer made a comment about how he couldn't use Static Shock in TT because of rights issues and now everyone is in a panic and blah blah blah. As I said, there's no actual evidence that the milestone rights are at issue at all (certainly not with the animated toons) it's just the closest thing to a legitimate reason we've gotten anywhere so it's being circulated by the fans.
Top rumors I'm hearing in order of what I think is likely:
- Toys not selling - Something similar happened to Sym-Bionic Titan, except instead of no toys at all, existing toys were yanked. A corollary: Ratings are good, just not in the right demographic. (kinda leaning towards this one, as it would cover GL as well)
- The Milestone Character Rights thing - already discussed here. (very possible, but what about GL?)
- January will be the premiere of a 2 hour DC Nation block with the two new series, Beware the Batman & Teen Titans Go. (mmmmmmmmaybe)
- Stephanie Brown's appearance - The blonde girl in purple is listed in the credits as "Stephanie Brown", who to the current DC editorial is "toxic" and they wish that she never existed. (probably not)
- CN actually did pull it to make room for Birthday events because CN upper management had their brains sucked out by aliens and replaced with lime jello. (I made up the part about the aliens... but not the jello ;) )
The episode IS on YouTube, not exactly legally, but should be findable. I saw it, and you can tell this was originally supposed to be the midseason cliffhanger because we get a WHOLE LOTTA reveals and things set for act two as it were...
Spoiler
- We meet the Reach, and their plot is pretty much what we guessed it would be. They're also directly related to Blue Beetle's Scarab, which they describe as damaged. Oh, and they brought BB's big brother Black Beetle.
- Speaking of Blue Beetle, he's a big bad overlord in Impulse's future. Bart is back to try to keep the Reach Apocalypse from happening and trying to keep BB from turning evil.
- Miss Martian confronts Aqualad and tries to lobotomize him only to discover he's really on their side and that Artemis is alive. Unfortunately, she learns this after damage is done. She's not doing too well afterwards.
- It is hinted that some of the people the Reach worked on might have powers they don't completely have under their control.
- Oh and before the team can reveal to the world what happened, the Reach show up at the UN and make friendly introductions. G. Godfrey LOVES them, which can't be a good thing.
Well the episode was on itunes legally for a bit after the original air date(could still be there for all I know), so it's not like it being on youtube is that shocking. As to the theories suggested though
- Even if the toy line were a factor in the continued run of the series (which I doubt... the toy line failed because of mismanagement from mattel and cartoon network's bizarre air times, neither of which had anything to do with the show's success or failure... heck, the show was renewed after the toy line fell apart) they have most of the rest of season 2 completed for both shows. They've already paid for them, why not use them?
- Again, we really don't have evidence of any legal issues with milestone. There's one comment from one writer about it being hokey, but he just as easily could have been denied static because editorial staff wanted do do something special with them. Either way, there's no way legal issues like that would suddenly vanish again before January... which is when they're starting back up.
- I can see this one, if only because that's essentially the same reason yj was delayed before.. to coincide with GL
- Eh. They already have characters and stories from old dc that dc wants us to forget about in the main cast, so IDK.
- I personally buy into this last one more: some exec lost their mind.
Very interesting episode - here's hoping some other country starts airing the rest of these episodes in a reasonable time-frame. Australia, I'm looking in your direction!
As to why Cartoon Network pulled the just-returned series, I think corporate mismanagement is the likely culprit.
It was a pretty great episode though! And the latest Green Lantern was amazing
Spoiler
(a dystopian steampunk story with references to Alan Scott!)
Watching the latest Young Justice while playing so much X-COM has got me pumped to start hunting some aliens!
What an awesome episode. I look forward to seeing the ramifications of everything that happened.
The episode of YJ is on the net if you know where to look. I do have one question:
Spoiler
They kept showing a teen with dreads in his hair. Could that be Static?
Quote from: JeyNyce on October 16, 2012, 07:24:37 PM
The episode of YJ is on the net if you know where to look. I do have one question:
Spoiler
They kept showing a teen with dreads in his hair. Could that be Static?
Kind of wondering that myself.
From what I understand...
Spoiler
Yes, that is - or in this case, "will be" - Static. Instead of the Big Bang, he gets his powers from the Reach. If you'll note, Shimmer (was that her name? the tattooed and headshaved girl) was already showing signs of some kind of unexpected (to her at least) power.
Weismen intends to have a number of the rescuees join the YJ group as a result of the capture and/or experimentation. I believe Stephanie Brown was also slated to become a member despite not having powers (but the interaction with Barbara and Tim might be foreshadowing).
I'm actually starting to wonder if CN has some kind of beef with Warner Bros.
First, they just left the Thundercats cartoon in limbo after Season 1... effectively dooming it without officially cancelling it.
Then, after waiting for so long to air Season 2 of Scooby-Doo: Mystery Inc in the US, they relegate it to the 2pm weekday slot without any efforts to actually promote it.
And now they just up and pull the plug on DC Nation while trying to make the fans think everything is fine so just wait till January!
Yeah... I'm starting to think something is up between the corporate moguls.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on October 17, 2012, 04:45:04 AM
I'm actually starting to wonder if CN has some kind of beef with Warner Bros.
First, they just left the Thundercats cartoon in limbo after Season 1... effectively dooming it without officially cancelling it.
Then, after waiting for so long to air Season 2 of Scooby-Doo: Mystery Inc in the US, they relegate it to the 2pm weekday slot without any efforts to actually promote it.
And now they just up and pull the plug on DC Nation while trying to make the fans think everything is fine so just wait till January!
Yeah... I'm starting to think something is up between the corporate moguls.
But Cartoon Network is owned by Turner Broadcasting, which is owned by Time Warner. The channel is effectively owned by the company that makes the cartoons that were pulled.
Quote from: Talavar on October 17, 2012, 01:00:00 PM
Quote from: oldmanwinters on October 17, 2012, 04:45:04 AM
I'm actually starting to wonder if CN has some kind of beef with Warner Bros.
First, they just left the Thundercats cartoon in limbo after Season 1... effectively dooming it without officially cancelling it.
Then, after waiting for so long to air Season 2 of Scooby-Doo: Mystery Inc in the US, they relegate it to the 2pm weekday slot without any efforts to actually promote it.
And now they just up and pull the plug on DC Nation while trying to make the fans think everything is fine so just wait till January!
Yeah... I'm starting to think something is up between the corporate moguls.
But Cartoon Network is owned by Turner Broadcasting, which is owned by Time Warner. The channel is effectively owned by the company that makes the cartoons that were pulled.
Hmm... good points. Now I'm really confused!
DC NATION Pulled to January 2013, Cartoon Network Comments
http://www.newsarama.com/tv/dc-nation-block-pulled-january-13-why.html
In a nutshell, still no reason why and a lot of angry fans
This little thing they're doing is not making me happy.
Yeah, add me to the list of angry fans. :angry:
Bad news for Young Justice fans: the tie-in comic has been cancelled. Even if you don't read it, it has bad connotations - for DC in the past the end of a tv show tie-in comic has also meant the end of the show. With all of the re-scheduling & pre-empting, and now this, I wouldn't put money on Young Justice getting a third season. Which sucks.
While I've never loved Young Justice as much as JLU, always feeling that there was much less range and subtlety to it, there was still little doubt in my mind that it was quite a quality offering. It's a show made by people who obviously love the character and universe they're playing in, and it is consistently excellently animated and well written...in short, the type of thing that never lasts as long as it should. I just can't understand what is wrong with the entertainment powers that be. It seems impossible that Young Justice wouldn't have been popular enough to justify its existence. Perhaps it will continue to endure, but because of its quality, and because of the relative intelligence of the decision makers, I guess I wouldn't be surprised to see it get cancelled. I suppose the revelation that the networks and entertainment giants are run by lobotomized monkeys is not exactly breaking news...
Funny thing is, I believe that McDonald's is having Young Justice as it's Happy Meal toy right now.
Quote from: Cyber Burn on November 14, 2012, 11:36:58 PM
Funny thing is, I believe that McDonald's is having Young Justice as it's Happy Meal toy right now.
Yep, just saw the in-store display on Sunday!
I wanted to remind folks - Young Justice is back! 2 episodes have aired over the past 2 weekends, and they haven't even pre-empted it for months for no reason, or anything!
Yeah, I was very pleasantly surprised to find this showing up again on my DVR. The last couple of episodes have been really interesting, and I've certainly enjoyed it. I do miss the heart of JLU though, as this show seems to consistently be rather doom and gloom. Still, I'm very glad to see it back.
I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but... http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/28/young-justice-green-lantern-tas-cancelled (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/28/young-justice-green-lantern-tas-cancelled) :(
Well, that figures. It was good quality and I liked it, so it was doomed.
WB and CN can both screw off with their Loeb-esque decisions. I don't know what's going on in the hero department, but apparently serious, layered series can't remain on the air, but the lighter, comedy oriented ones can at least secure 52 episodes right out the gate.
See: Thundercats, YJ, GL, WatX, Spectacular vs. Ultimate Spidey
While this is sad, the series seemed to wrap up the first season storyline fairly well, even with the strong hook for a second season, so I think the overall series will still be satisfactorily complete. It's still sad though.
I hope you're right Cat, and yeah Prev, that sounds about right. I agree, the execs that are making these types of decisions could use a sound thrashing.
Quote from: BentonGrey on January 29, 2013, 12:24:41 AM
I hope you're right Cat, and yeah Prev, that sounds about right. I agree, the execs that are making these types of decisions could use a sound thrashing.
Agreed. Two of the best shows out right now, both getting cancelled, that just stinks. :banghead:
The fate of Green Lantern doesn't bother me as much as that of YJ, as I felt like it had more potential that was really realized, but it is still a loss.
Grah. I'm torn now, because I'm already committed to boycotting any marvel shows (outside of Shield, because I'd be a fool not to watch it) due to the fate of Avengers EMH, but killing off YJ is almost worse, because the show was/is far better. But boycotting shows from both is downright silly, so I'm forced to choose between which of the two I hate more.
...
Who am I kidding? Much as I think YJ and GL are superior shows, their demise doesn't surprise me (YJ suffered because of the constant delays between episodes, and GL's creation was intended to capitalize on the GL movie which completely bombed.) and I can at least give the executives the benefit of the doubt in terms of their respective success/failure.
By all accounts, the only reason EMH was cancelled was because Jeph Loeb is an idiot, and it's being replaced with a show that's supposedly the same as EMH was, but with completely different actors and animation and writers.
Cartoon Network's handling of their WB shows has really been bizarre of late.
They have relegated Scooby-Doo: Mystery Inc to the 2:30pm weekday slot (where very few people can watch it live) and given almost no promotion, they put Thundercats in limbo, abruptly delayed the DC Nation block for two months, and now they've finally pulled the plug on Young Justice and Green Lantern. I can't help but think there's some corporate turmoil over at Turner/Time Warner.
I just hope that these end up on DVD as a complete season.
I got my daughter hooked on YJ and she found this link for a petition to keep YJ from getting canceled
https://www.change.org/petitions/cartoon-network-continue-young-justice (https://www.change.org/petitions/cartoon-network-continue-young-justice)
I already signed it and so did she, maybe it could help.
Allegedly someone who works at CN/TW suggested that fans forgo the petition route and instead do something that'll catch the corporation's attention: buying season passes on itunes (and grabbing DVDs)!
Read: Bottom-To-Top
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/premo/SaveYJGL_zps4373c30a.jpg)
But internet petitions always effect change and action!
Seriously though, I'm bummed YJ is getting canned. Figured it was coming, but still bummed. It also makes complete season DVD sets ever coming out pretty unlikely. Boo.
Actually, we've reached a point where it's actually far cheaper to get good quality versions via itunes then to buy dvds.
I always prefer to buy DVDs when I can, that way I own the material and can never lose access to it as long as I take care of the media.
Quote from: BentonGrey on January 31, 2013, 12:28:16 AM
I always prefer to buy DVDs when I can, that way I own the material and can never lose access to it as long as I take care of the media.
Ditto.
Quote from: BentonGrey on January 31, 2013, 12:28:16 AM
I always prefer to buy DVDs when I can, that way I own the material and can never lose access to it as long as I take care of the media.
Me too.
Derrick J. Wyatt is a character designer for GL. He's not a writer or anything like that, so him telling us to buy dvds and itunes carries no more weight than you or me doing the same.
I hada bunch more to say, but the board ate my post, so I might come back later to type it all out again.
On Runaways: YJ does Superfriend
C'mon, tell me those weren't Samuarai, El Dorado, Apachie Chief, and Static standing in for Black Vulcan.
I am SO going to miss this series.
Well, saw that coming a mile away....still, decent episode.
I didn't watch SuperFriends enough to be too familiar with the cast, but I did start to watch if the Native American boy might be a modern take on Apache Chief.
And regarding the ending, which I didn't follow too closely because I was a little distracted at the time...
Spoiler
Are we supposed to assume that Blue Beetle and the Martain Beetle have been in cahoots with Black Beetle for a long time or did some plot development happen in this episode that I just missed?
Quote from: oldmanwinters on February 02, 2013, 09:32:41 PM
I didn't watch SuperFriends enough to be too familiar with the cast, but I did start to watch if the Native American boy might be a modern take on Apache Chief.
And regarding the ending, which I didn't follow too closely because I was a little distracted at the time...
Spoiler
Are we supposed to assume that Blue Beetle and the Martain Beetle have been in cahoots with Black Beetle for a long time or did some plot development happen in this episode that I just missed?
Spoiler
Green Beetle "fixed" Blue Beetle's scarab last episode or the one before, and thereby "freed" BB from any possibility of the Reach taking control. Obviously, his presence was an elaborate trap.
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 02, 2013, 09:43:56 PM
Quote from: oldmanwinters on February 02, 2013, 09:32:41 PM
I didn't watch SuperFriends enough to be too familiar with the cast, but I did start to watch if the Native American boy might be a modern take on Apache Chief.
And regarding the ending, which I didn't follow too closely because I was a little distracted at the time...
Spoiler
Are we supposed to assume that Blue Beetle and the Martain Beetle have been in cahoots with Black Beetle for a long time or did some plot development happen in this episode that I just missed?
Spoiler
Green Beetle "fixed" Blue Beetle's scarab last episode or the one before, and thereby "freed" BB from any possibility of the Reach taking control. Obviously, his presence was an elaborate trap.
Ah... that's right! I never trusted that ol' Martian anyway.
Spoiler
I didn't really pay close attention to the Beetle Summit at the end of the episode. What was the nature of their conversation, besides calling humanity "meat" ?
Spoiler
'Yay! Blue Beetle is totally going to betray and enslave humanity after he makes them love him as a super awesome hero!' (slightly paraphrased)
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 02, 2013, 11:55:24 PM
Spoiler
'Yay! Blue Beetle is totally going to betray and enslave humanity after he makes them love him as a super awesome hero!' (slightly paraphrased)
I'll almost be glad once the series ends just so that I won't have to be left hanging on yet another ominous cliffhanger.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on February 03, 2013, 12:01:45 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 02, 2013, 11:55:24 PM
Spoiler
'Yay! Blue Beetle is totally going to betray and enslave humanity after he makes them love him as a super awesome hero!' (slightly paraphrased)
I'll almost be glad once the series ends just so that I won't have to be left hanging on yet another ominous cliffhanger.
Because it's totally not going to end on a never-to-be-resolved season ending cliffhanger. That would be unheard of.
I watched today's episode, and I was almost a little offended at the surprise planetary crisis the show tried to pull off.
I reminded me most of the 1992 Superman arc "Panic in the Sky" just without the continuity buildup, with a Big Bad villain swap, and without... uh... Superman. Other than that (and the twist ending with the Reach playing their hand), it was
really similar to the comic book arc. I do enjoy that story, so I enjoyed seeing something similar in the episode, but it just didn't quite feel entirely sincere.
I just can't help but think this show is pulling plot twists out of thin air to try and pin a resolution onto this season... and the series.
Spoiler
Also... does the Justice League 6 have any plan to get themselves out of their sham trial? One would think with Batman's arrogance he wouldn't have even bothered to submit himself to such an indignity in the first place.
I don't know how the show plans to handle that whole plot line, but it just seems like the writers' only purpose in this side story was to get the most powerful members of the League off planet during the crisis to raise the stakes for the Young Justice. That's a shame, since the end of the first season suggests the "missing hours" could have been a genuinely interesting storyline in itself. But I guess I expected too much from this show.
Spoiler
The episode did feel kind of rushed, hated seeing Blue Beetle turn like he did. And I was really disappointed watching Arsenal turn tail and run. Overall, not one of my favorite episodes.
So, Young Justice finally got put out of its weird 2nd season scheduling misery. And don't believe that Cartoon Network promo that aired this morning, because there are no more "New" episodes of Green Lantern or Young Justice to air again next week! :lol:
I really did like the first season of this show, but I'll admit that I mostly tolerated season 2. I was thinking back to one of Greg Weisman's early comments about the show, namely the plan to "kill off" one of the main characters. Until this morning, I figured they had forgotten all about that promise, but looks like they were true to their word after all.
So a friend of mine at work spoiled the last episode for me today... wanted to see if I could figure out which of the characters was gonna die (I've reasoned out a few plot points ahead of time and been right, such as Captain Florida in RvB) and I sat there for a moment listing off the characters trying to figure it out... and then I stopped and was like "oh, duh, ______."
Spoiler
I'm gonna be honest, despite the whole "ZOMG killing characters is teh bad!" thing i think most of us have, I honestly appreciated a proper send off due to what's happened to the character in the new 52. I feel like what happened to him is actually WORSE then just killing him off.
A decent ending for the show.
Spoiler
I like how it's left open to continue, hopefully DC will come around and give the fans what we want...but I won't hold my breath.
I don't think DC really has any say in this - it's Cartoon Network that cancelled it.
Alas, Young Justice - you were never my favourite superhero cartoon, but you were a solid, quality show. A shame.
Solid show. Worthy of getting the DVDs. Too bad about it being cancelled.
Apparently Greg Weisman tried pitching a million different permutations of the show to the Cartoon Network (a stand-alone movie, an Arsenal spin-off, etc), and they passed.
So ... aside from the Young Justice videogame, we won't see any kind of continuation of the show :thumbdown:
It's baaaaaaaack...
http://io9.gizmodo.com/its-official-young-justice-is-coming-back-1788676249
I'm so happy right now.
I am overwhelmed :cool:
^I understood that reference. :P
I'm whelmed.
Seriously though, that's good news. I've got mixed feelings about the Justice League Action show, but YJ, for all of its flaws, was an objectively good show.
I never thought they'd successfully bring this back. It's excellent news. I just hope they are able to get the core cast voice actors back.
I think they'll get enough. A few of the VA's have been on twitter helping to fuel the show's resurrection rumors for awhile now, and if nothing else, I have a feeling Khary Payton's on WB's speed dial.
Btw,am I the only one who thinks The Light were pretty unconvincing villains?As in,no way these people could work together.
Spade, I'd have liked to see them explored a lot more to explain why they were doing so.
Quote from: BentonGrey on November 08, 2016, 07:37:13 AM
Spade, I'd have liked to see them explored a lot more to explain why they were doing so.
Trying to make Earth a superpower..IN SPACE?
Quote from: Spade on November 08, 2016, 05:59:17 AM
Btw,am I the only one who thinks The Light were pretty unconvincing villains?As in,no way these people could work together.
I agree on that one. It's classic Greg Weisman--the villains don't win, but they never really lose either due to writer gymnastics. I believe TvTropes refers to it as Xanatos Roulette, where the villains are impossibly well-prepared or foresighted in order to make their ridiculous plan work. In the case of Young Justice, it was the host of villains with incompatible goals and methods of operating all working together in secret. It's still a good show, but that always bugged me.
Even if we ignore Xanatos tendencies(which is a bit hard),Light is really streching the Council of Doom theme.Ras,Vandal and Lex working together?Over a pretty vague cause of advancing humanity?And nobody backstabs the others for 2 seasons?Just saying,thats really out of character for everyone here.
Since Season 2 took place in 2016...was it planned all along to delay the 3rd season?
No. that just happened. The cancellation was (unfortunately) real.
From what I'm hearing, Season 3 takes place a few years (possibly 5) after Season 2. This would make for an interesting dynamic to bring Kid Flash back as I doubt he'd be aware of the time passage and would also work well reintroducing everyone and the new status quo for new viewers and old ones alike.
I was a fan of the show and I still admire it's addictive quality, but I eventually got burned by the constant dangling of "greater threat/master conspiracy." The core heroes got great development in the 1st season, but folks started to get lost in the Blue Beetle focus of Season 2. The Justice League and major villains started to feel like they were inconveniences to the storytelling team and none of them were especially interesting. So now that it's coming back... I dunno. It'll be worth watching but I'm afraid it will have trouble living up to the hype and expectations.
Quote from: oldmanwinters on November 09, 2016, 12:19:42 AM
I was a fan of the show and I still admire it's addictive quality, but I eventually got burned by the constant dangling of "greater threat/master conspiracy." The core heroes got great development in the 1st season, but folks started to get lost in the Blue Beetle focus of Season 2. The Justice League and major villains started to feel like they were inconveniences to the storytelling team and none of them were especially interesting. So now that it's coming back... I dunno. It'll be worth watching but I'm afraid it will have trouble living up to the hype and expectations.
I agree with that in the context of the show itself, but having read the tie-in comics (which, after the first couple issues, were written by show runner Greg Weisman and helped flesh out some things that were glossed over in the show) it's clear that there actually were some interesting ideas in place for various members of the League and the Team, but unfortunately the book was cancelled before it had a chance to cover any of season 2.
I was ok with the 2nd season because I thought the voice acting was great and the stories were engaging. There were things I wanted to be explained better, but I found I would have to buy into the franchise more than I wanted (ie buying the video game).
I really hope season 3 is not 5 years in the future. I would rather see KF and As pull off being together as a couple as well as Speedy (clone) and Cat as parents...but I'm a sentimental. I know there must be tragedy. Therefore, I want to see the return of the Main Man....kissyfem...maybe he'll hook up with Wonder Girl.
Im really against another timeskip,and they didnt really look older in the teaser.So I doubt thats happening.
For season 3,I would like to see Raven,for example.
Courtesy of the FR Facebook page, we have our first look at the Season 3 Team lineup. New heroes are Arrowette, Spoiler, and Thirteen. Also a hint that some former members of the Team may have formed the Outsiders, or something like it.
http://io9.gizmodo.com/young-justice-outsiders-reveals-its-new-heroes-and-the-1797134284
Another late observation,but Wade Eiling goes strangly underused.Because hes one villain whos plan is to make Earth a galactic superpower.Thats kind of a theme for Weisman,it seems.
The New Young Justice will feature Lightning and Black Lightning. Also Katana, Metamorpho, Geoforce (in a costume so un-Geoforce I didn't realize who it was at first) and a character that some are saying is Forager which I could buy since some Fourth World characters did appear in YJ. (http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/05/14/young-justice-season-3-outsiders-art-released/)
Khary Payton has apparently expressed interest in voicing Darkseid. That would be different.
Well, those are interesting costumes. They look (for the most part) nothing like their sources, which bothers me. Also, if that's Forager, I'm going to be a tad annoyed. I would like to see Metamorpho on the team, but I hope we don't get an angsty teenage Rex.
Is Forager the guy who looks like a cockroach, and nothing like a Kirby-designed character? And is the guy in one of Madrox's cast off costumes GeoForce? This kind of looks like The Outsiders, and not in a good way.
Quote from: daglob on May 15, 2018, 04:29:15 AM
This kind of looks like The Outsiders, and not in a good way.
Ha!
Yeah I thought I remembered Cat saying this was the name of the 3rd season: Outsiders. I mean with Metamorpho, Lightning, Geo-Force... I think they're making it overtly obvious now.
Maybe they're fighting the team or something of sort of opposition.
Well,its called Young Justice: Outsiders.
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on May 15, 2018, 06:23:46 AM
Yeah I thought I remembered Cat saying this was the name of the 3rd season: Outsiders. I mean with Metamorpho, Lightning, Geo-Force... I think they're making it overtly obvious now.
Maybe they're fighting the team or something of sort of opposition.
It's also the title of that article in the link. . .
First 3 episodes of s3 have been a mixed bag.
Kaizen Gamorra as a UN delegate,thats a weird cameo.
I quite enjoyed it, but then I'm an unabashed fanboy of the series so take that with some salt. It's only 3 episodes in rn (those of you waiting to use your free weeks might wanna give it a couple months) so there's a lot of setup and we haven't really established a status quo yet.
I should note before I delve into spoilers, a few characters are sporting some new attire. I noticed Superman was suddenly looking more like the current n52 version, for example. I'm guessing some of the powers that be made them conform to current outfits.
Spoiler
-Tempest and Troia as ambassadors to the UN. Nice to see them get some love, especially since I think this is Troias first appearance on the show.
So one of the new characters introduced is credited first as "dead girl" and in EP 3 as "Halo girl". I've read that she's supposed to be an adaptation of a more obscure Outsiders character "Halo" but... I also think she's got the "soul" the mother box we see dismantled on the table. Between that checkovs gun and the fact that she seems to "talk" to sphere (also new God tech) I feel pretty confident in that speculation.
^^ No comment on Jaculi from the Jahad from Suicide Squad making a cameo? That was one of the highlights for me.
So Canada is airing it on tv. I feel like I should be probably be more happy about that than I am. Mind you, they're airing it later than the U.S. gets it, with fewer episodes per week, but oh well. I'm positive Teletoon never actually aired season 2; in fact I never saw season 2 until I bought the DVDS, which I was happy to do. But Canada's rights issues for tv content, particulaly streaming and cartoons, have been retribution-ably (yes, that's a reference to the Young Justice version of Joker) crappy for almost as long as I've been alive, so oh well. At least the original run
is on Netflix.
Tom: It's Halo. There's promo art that shows her as part of the team.
Anyway, I've seen it. I was underwhelmed. (How could I not reference that memorable joke from the original run?)
Before I start, I should say
I really liked the original YJ. I remember when it was coming out and people were legitably debating whether it was as good as JLU and I think the comparisons are more than apt. This was right around the time I learned that Greg Weisman was the man, between this, Spectacular Spidey, and rediscovering Gargoyles on DVD. So I did have a lot of expectations for this show, even while skeptical about the whole Outsiders bit.
Short version: This doesn't feel like Young Justice. I mean, I'm not that surprised. I'd had well over a year to be prepared for it to be "Outsiders: Guest Starring Young Justice" but it's still a palpable step down from the Greg Weisman high I remember getting throughout YJ S1 and 2 and from the very first episode of Spectacular Spidey. To me there's a few problems with it. I'll cover them under the Spoiler tag.
Spoiler
1. The tone.
This Young Justice feels fundamentally like it's made in "this era". Let's call it the "Netflix era." An era where every tv show wants to be Game of Thrones, and every action/superhero cartoon (that's not Teen Titans Go, or Ninja Turtles, ect) wants to try so hard it hurts to shake off the stigma of the animation age getto (for a deeper insight into this, see the really damn good Youtube video "The Legend of Korra is Garbage and Here's Why") Instead of fun banter, teen hero adventures and hammy villains, we have...U.N. meetings, politics and third-world royal infighting. And all of it in this dry, boring wrapping that, along with "Look like we can do now" violence (again, Korra) makes it feel like everyone involved has no interest whatsoever in making something children would actually watch without getting bored or falling asleep (though considering the middling ratings on Cartoon Network, the underwhelming toy sales and DC's current "f*ck Batman" marketing tactics (we'll get to Titans in a bit), no big surprise there.) Anytime the Titans (oops, "The Team") Justice League, or Black Lightning weren't on screen, and I wasn't playing "who's that voice actor", I was bored and kinda only half-paying attention while I played Super Mario Run on my tablet or whatever else I was playing at the time. I don't know if this is Weisman et al's work or the result of DC/WB mandates (I would guess a combination of both) but it left me surprisingly disappointed.
2. The voice cast.
We all knew getting 100% of all the various voice actors back wasn't going to happen. We covered this like a year ago. But it's still surprisingly disappointing how limited and uninspired the talent pool in this show is. This from Greg Weisman, the man who made it his mission to get Star Trek actors in as many of his shows as possible (come to think of it, I don't think there are any in the show at the moment. Oh wait, Bruce Greenwood. Not that he was in shows Weisman used to draw from mind you) and makes his mission to have Lexington from Gargoyles play a character in seemingly every show he does. Yes, pretty much every main character has their voice actor back, as well as the JL (I was surprised Maggie Q came back to voice WW; I was fully expecting her to be recast with Grey Griffin or someone; Griffin ended up playing Troia and Dr. Jace though; Incidentally; Bruce Greenwood still sucks as Batman anytime he's not doing Under the Red Hood) but every new character except Halo, Stargirl and Black Lightning's family draws from the most obvious and overexposed talent pool of voice actors in the modern industry, many of them playing multiple characters. The English Dub of Pokemon has more variety in its casting than this, and that's no compliment.
You have Troy Baker as Geo-Force And Dr. Double-X, Nolan North (who already plays Superboy AND Superman) voicing Bedlam, Crispin Freeman (who already plays both versions of Roy Harper AND the Jim Harper version of Guardian) as Geo-Force's brother, And Grey Griffin as Troia AND Dr. Jace (who, incidentally, is also actively appearing in Black Lightning). Now, I know pretty much every cartoon does this with minor side characters (go back and rewatch JLU and notice how many times someone in that episode plays an extra) but it seems especially lazy and uninspired here, especially considering every single one of these characters is a part of the greater DC canon. This all had the effect of making the production seem much cheaper; I suspect DC cut some corners on the voice acting budget. It just reminds me of all the money Disney comparatively is throwing around for its shows; getting the real Star Wars actors to voice their characters as often as possible starting with Rebels, getting kids from Disney Channel shows to voice the new teen and kid characters, getting David Tennant and Lin-Manual Miranda for Ducktales. Here we get Khary Payton talking to Khary Payton and Steve Blum talking to Steve Blum (though at least Blum's characters return from Seasons 1 and 2)
Before I get off track, I also was disappointed to hear that G. Gordon Godrey was no longer voiced by the legendary Tim Curry. Not only was that a throwback to Gargoyles (Curry voiced Dr. Sevarious) but he lent his unique blend of classiness to the proceedings. Here he's voiced by James Arnold Taylor trying to imitate the voice (he also replaced George Eads as Barry Allen in season 2), and as soon as I heard I literally said "You're not Tim Curry. Boo!"
On the other hand, I was overjoyed at Beast Boy being recast with Greg Cipes from Teen Titans. I didn't care for the original YJ actor and he's great here, modifying his voice to no longer be the jokey comic relief version he's otherwise always voicing BB as. In fact, BB's segments are the best part of the whole show IMO. They feel like the kind of In-Universe web short viral marketing videos you used to see for big studio movies. It also has me wondering if the former child star actress (Ariel Winter) who voiced Princess Pardita (who came up in one of these scenes) would be likely to voice the character if she appeared in a speaking role, now that she's much older. Then again, I was surprised to learn that she came back to voice Mog from Final Fantasy two games later, so who knows. Again, this was a Greg Weisman nod; the character originated in a Green Arrow DVD short.
I'm fully expecting if Klarion the Witch Boy shows he won't be Lexington anymore, and Joker won't be Brent Spiner (though A. I didn't particularly like Spiner's version, and 2. Ha ha, fat chance, like DC will let them use the Joker again; then again, JL Action). If Queen Bee shows up will be still be voiced by Mirina "Counselor Troy/Demona" Sirtis (though, she made a cameo in Titans, soooo maybe?)
But the biggest problem on the voice actor front is Khary Payton. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE ME some Khary Payton. The dude kills it as Cyborg and as King Ezekiel on The Walking Dead, as in Metal Gear Solid 4, and probably some other stuff I forgot. And he's quite good as ol' Jefferson Pierce (who the creators clearly had referencing the Black Lightning Tv Series with his very similar-looking family. Wonder why that could be wink wink?) The problem is he's the exact same voice actor playing Aqualad and they have almost the exact same front-flipping voice! It's understandable with a minor character (Kevin Micheal Richardson voicing John Stewart in addition to J'onn J'onzz and Mal Duncan, for example) since sometimes they come back in a bigger role (though some shows do recast in that case, see Rain Wilson replacing Blum as Lex Luthor, AND Sam Witwer replacing Blum as Orm in the current DVD movies) but here it's such a misguided choice it's the kind of things jaded fans (like myself) would joke about a good year before the real castings come out. Speaking of which: dude, get Sam Witwer to voice a villain in this. He's always good in those kind of roles. There's a suggestion from me to the creators. As a voice acting buff (I'm clearly not subtle about this) this show's castle is totes disappointing.
And to sum up, as I alluded much earlier, There's soo much Outsiders in this, to the detriment of the YJ stuff (seriously, there's surprisingly little YJ stuff in here, it's all breif, spread out stuff like the Reach soft drink reference and the scene with Connor and M'gann, or the scene with Roy and Lian (Yay Lian!) That I am 100% confident DC had a hand in it. BL and the Outsiders are everywhere these days. Live action, cartoons AND the comics. That's not a coincidence, DC and Marvel have never been subtle about this kind of thing (remember Ultimate Spider-Man?) Even if Weisman himself said it was his idea, I'd still believe some DC suit discussed it with him early on and was super into it (hell, it's probably the only reason we HAVE a season 3).
In closing, imagine my surprise to learn that I'd enjoy
Titans of all things more than the revived Young Justice, as yet. Yeah, in case you guys haven't heard, Titans is actually REALLY good (though of course, Your Milage May Vary). I'll gush about it in the appropriate thread later. Between that and Aquaman, truly we are in the Bizarro World when it comes to DC these days.
[EDIT] OMG, I totally realized, a big part of my problem with this season can be summed up with that Young Justice "It. IS. TIME. TO GET REALLY REALLY SERIOUS" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1AKrm3H1Lk) parody (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3K6AEiXOAE) from Teen Titans Go. How'd I miss that? Watch Weisman and co have someone in the show say "No time for games. This is serious." In a deliberate nod to that in the next episode. :P
SS... I know she's Halo. My point was more that...
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this VERSION is likely formed from the spirit of the Mother box. The original character was, based on the googling I did, an ancient alien called a Aurakle trapped in the body of a dying/dead girl, but I think the idea for Young Justice is that the "alien" fused with THIS Halo is a Mother Box. We have the chekhov's gun of the disassembled box at the lab (one that Superboy specifically calls Black Lightning's and thus our attention to), she seems to have some kind of connection with Sphere (also New Gods tech) and the season is almost certainly leading up to Darkseid. Having a main character literally be the spirit of a Mother Box would tie her directly into the proceedings.
As for the rest... Again, we're super early on, and I'll reserve judgement until there's more than 3 episodes to parse through. Given the subject that's being dealt with (which was a necessity because it ties directly into Geo-Force's origin) I'm not sure I'd be ok with jokey jokes all the time, and we do get a bit of fun banter with Barbara and Richard.
Ok, I was a little confused by what you were talking about but I get it now. You are probably right about the character's backstory.
Well, there's the rub isn't it? It's an easy thing to say "wait and see" three episodes in, but maybe you liked the new more than I because you liked the original more to begin with. Which is fine, don't get me wrong. My favorite show was the 2003 TMNT and I've defended it and its later, decidedly less good, more market-and-budget driven later seasons every step of the way. (Fortunately, Tom Waltz over at IDW seems to agree with me, since the current Turtles comic draws from the 2003 show many, many times). The Nicktoon's show took a lot longer to win me over (which is to say, a season-and-a-half or so, but that show had its own issues IMO which I've talked about before)
But I sometimes try to contextualize the "wait and see reaction". As I mentioned, I literally was loving Weisman's Spectacular Spider-Man from the very first episode, and was fully on board for a YJ season 2 that added a LOT more characters and phased out a fair number of the originals. The reason why is that even with all the new characters, the story being told still felt like a direct continuation of what was set up prior. Here, other than all the metahuman so and so and a few brief scenes and exchanges early on it's pretty much an origin story for Geo-Force and Halo, and bringing Black Lightning into the fold.
Which makes me ask "Ok, WHY is Geo-Force in this? Why is Halo in this? Why is it "Young Justice: Outsiders?" I've been asking that question literally since the subtitle was revealed, but I already know the answer, I gave it in my earlier post. Cross-brand synergy. It's just not a satisfying one.
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Now, in fairness, Darkseid's definitely coming; I mean you can see Apocalypse in the intro, and the direct reference to The Light has made me hopefully things will be more interesting in future episodes. But honestly? Based on the quality of the previous two seasons, I was honestly expecting to be interested from the first episode on. At least I won't have to wait too long for more episodes.
To give another reaction, Star Wars Resistance got 10 episodes to win me over and I still haven't been impressed with it. The newest season of Doctor Who never managed to hold my interest.
Quotenot sure I'd be ok with jokey jokes all the time, and we do get a bit of fun banter with Barbara and Richard.
I didn't even remember that exchange. The funny thing is, I've never eve cared for a lot of the humor in YJ, I've always found it kinda hokey (Artemis' line about "A bicycle built for two" would be a good example" and the only time the "stop touching yourself" joke from the original run was funny to me was on the DVD promos where Bat-Mite was edited in to show up in front of the screen and sarcastically reply "How wacky and original!" That's not to the show's credit, that's some jokester cutting a trailer who got inspired. I do REALLY like Bart Allen though, I think they did him perfect. I'd like to see more of him. In any case, there is a difference between "fun" and "funny". Like I said before, the key element to me is "tone". It's all so self-serious and mired in political so-and-so, it ends up being one of those shows while I almost forget what show I'm watching.
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Perfect example: Doctor Double-X. Dude is one of the goofiest Batman villains from the goofiest era of Batman. Naturally, he appeared on Brave and the Bold. Here the inherent goofiness is turned down comic-book-movie style (Scott Snyder's Batman also used him this way) and he is now a generic mad scientist whose power set is changed to tech that makes duplicates of him. The only reason I knew who he was, was because they said his name and I recognized it from an earlier show. Compare to season 1, where we got Bane, Mr. Freeze, Icicle, Sportsmaster, Amazo, Klarion. This was a show that featured Dave Franco of all people as The Riddler. And all of them were instantly recognizable as themselves (which ironically, is happening regularly these days in the LIVE ACTION versions of Marvel and DC with some of the characters)
I hope you're right and things improve in future episodes. Because if they don't I don't think I'm going to get much out of this season.
TBF though, YJ season 2 was worked on pretty much back to back with season 1. They even aired episode 1 of season 2 the week after airing the finale of season 1. However, it's been YEARS since Season 2 aired, and I expect there to be a bit of rust to shake off as the show finds its momentum again. What we did see raised enough questions and I'm intrigued enough that I plan to keep watching.
Sure, fair enough. And I am in for the long haul, I just hope I enjoy it more as it goes. I rarely drop any show, even ones I don't like that much (The Simpsons was probably the last show I stopped watching that I can recall)
Im kinda trying to remember- did something happen to Aquaman in season 2 or between seasons?
Also,this whole thing where superheroes need an approval of gov or UN to operate- I know its realistic,but I hate that take.
Not that I can recall, and not according to Wikipedia.
I'm guessing Aquaman's status quo is something Weisman and co will reveal more of in the future. They did some similar stuff in Season two when they did a time jump.
Either that or they couldn't get Phil Lamarr back and didn't want to bother recasting Aquaman (probably not the actual answer?)
You just reminded me that Catherine Cobert was in the show. I didn't complain about her (she's voiced by the same VA as Artemis, who also voices the computer) because she actually appeared in the original run. I immediately recognized her as being from JLI, but course here she's in a completely different context so I almost don't know why they bothered other than to get nerds like me to go "I understood that reference".
Speaking of that character, literally every voice actor I mentioned pulling double duty not named Khary Payton is also doing the "if we use an accent you won't be able to tell which voice actor we are" trick. Nice try guys. It didn't work back when 4Kids did it, it didn't work when Transformers: Cybertron did it, and it doesn't work here.
Come to think of about it, too bad this show isn't Young Justice: Suicide Squad. Waller (who actually did appear in the original run) and Task Force X would have had this whole situation sorted out in 2 episodes, tops.
...
...
Come to think of it, why the crap isn't Suicide Squad a show on DC's Streaming Service? I mean, they're clearing going all in on the "Darker and Edgier" business and you'd never make a kid-friendly Suicide Squad series anyway, because it'd pretty much just be G.I. Joe with DC characters. Yeah, that should absolutely be a show on DC's Service. I'm shocked I didn't think of that before now. I'd watch the everloving crap out of that.
Because the movie did poorly. No, seriously, you've already mentioned brand cohesion, and DC's big push leading up to the film was OMG Suicide Squad (Arkham Origins had them, Arrow had them, etc.) but after how blah the movie is WB's put the kibosh on that hype train in the same way they did for Green Lantern. Harley's still pushed because she at least got good buzz, but Task Force X? Nah.
Well, I was kinda being half jokey and rhetorical, but 1. DC's talking about doing a sequel, and 2. They still put out an animated movie after the live action film. Then again, DC's been going back to putting out Justice League and Superman animated movies for the first times in years. Justice League the movie also did poorly but that still still got a new cartoon, which admittedly failed, but that's because it's a DC Cartoon not named Teen Titans Go. It's well documented that CN sabotaged pretty much every DC cartoon other than Go going back years (They also did this for Transformers cartoons)
Going back to Young Justice Outsiders: I was reading last night the various plans the creators said back in the day that they wanted to do prior to Outsiders happening, which would indicate this new storyline isn't what they were originally planning.
Uncle Iroh is training Ras Al Ghul. :)
And I guess Light was reorganized ,again.
Time to be obsessed over minor details,were Red Martians ever a thing in any DC continuity?Green,white,burning and even yellow,but I cant find any mention of red,outside 1 YJ tie in comic.
So I'm just as guilty of this, but we should be careful from now on not to talk about season 3 events outside spoiler tags. I know a few members who are waiting until it's all up to use their free week, so we should be mindful.
However, since the red Martian thing isn't a spoiler... Red Martians seem to be a creation for this series, and only have a passing mention in the comics. Going by the wiki, Weisman's blog has apparently fleshed it out a bit, with the reds being the equivalent of royal blood in the yj-verse, and are super rare... So I doubt we'll see them anytime soon.
Onto actual spoilers though.
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kkohoho brought up a good point in the discord about the goggles we keep seeing. Their branding is "Goode" which, given the villain we're pretty sure is the final boss, it's not that big a leap to suspect Granny Goodness.
Ah, so Weisman's still giving behind the scenes supplentary info on his website after all these years eh? Awesome. I really gotta read more of that. I remember him having some interesting tidbits about Gargoyles.
On a related note. I've finally started reading the Young Justice tie-in comic. Pretty decent so far. It definitely hits some nostalgia buttons from the original run of the show.
Speaking of which:
Ok, now THIS week's offerings were fun. If the premiere was more like this I wouldn't have had anything to complain about.
Everyone involved seemed to be having fun with the security company plot.
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-Dr. Fate's appearance has me wondering: if Kent Nelson appeared again, would Ed Asner return to do the voice?
-Arsenal seems less angsty than I remember. Is that a passage of time thing, or am misremembering Arsenal's character in this and/or getting him mixed up with the comics version?
I can't not love this:
"Noone's gonna steal this stuff in broad daylight."
"We're gonna steal this stuff in broad daylight." I legit laughed out loud.
"My insurance rates!"
"I think we looked better in our Bowhunter Security Uniforms."
"No, you do not."
Ep 5: Away Mission:
I hope that's not the real Orion's voice. Ben Diskin? Horribly miscast.
Ep 6: Rescue Op:
Yay, Black Spider is back! and he's still totally Spider-Man! "Do I need better quips?"
Did the Killing Joke happen between seasons? It doesn't get much darker and edgier than that.
Yes, I was thinking of Iroh too.
The stuff with the Light actually does have me intrigued. Was it clear who the person who showed up with Black Spider was, or do we have to wait to find out?
Granny Goodness, didn't even think of that.
Did I mention this version of Justice League sucks?
"The UN sanctioned us,we couldnt even help with the tsunami thing"
This coming from Oliver Queen of all people.
Quote from: HarryTrotter on January 14, 2019, 07:17:12 AM
Did I mention this version of Justice League sucks?
"The UN sanctioned us,we couldnt even help with the tsunami thing"
This coming from Oliver Queen of all people.
So you're saying they should ignore what the UN says and do whatever the hell they want? Even though that could risk a conflict between the League and the UN that could have global and perhaps drastic repercussions?
Your saying they should just leave a few thousand people to die?
Spoiler tags guys. Again, people haven't seen any of season 3 yet, and you're discussing that material specifically.
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I think there's a difference between "the League couldn't help officially" and "we did nothing at all." There IS still the team, whose entire purpose is to do the stuff the League can't. I definitely stinks that they couldn't send the heavy hitters in officially, but that's WHY Batman makes the case that he does: Being in the public eye was useful to a point, but their enemies have used it to cripple them.
Which is possible,but unconfirmed by the series itself.So afaik they didnt help.
And I wonder if Kk would have a problem if ANYONE else asked the same.
As for spoilers,its a minor detail from episode 1,which has been out for a few weeks now.
How did I miss this from the newest batch of episodes:
Spoiler
during the sequence with Ra's Al Ghul we briefly see Talia with a baby in her arms (no doubt Damien Wayne), right before it's hinted that the character with Ra's is Jason Todd.
I must have been distracted by something for those 10 seconds or so, because I totally missed Talia.
Pretty neat, but I feel like it would have carried more weight if the show made better use of Batman. Maybe it'll get more mileage out of it in future episodes.
Catching up with the rest of half-season.
Mist and Shade in the same episode-i kinda expected some Starman reference.Unless I missed something.Also,Lobo.Yey?
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Ocean Master
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That was pointless.They never even used the character.And now they just casually behead him.Why did they even bother?
Didn't end up commenting on the remained of the half-season before now. I enjoyed what I saw for the most part.
Mist, Shade, Livewire and Lobo were pretty fun. I will say if it was another character, the near constant innuendos would come off as more gratuitous, but as least from Livewire it's in character. Though even her appearances in Superman TAS and Supergirl weren't quite as in your face as this one is. And then there's Black Lightning's response to her. Not even touching that one.
Also I like the end credits sequences. I like that they show something different every episode. That's fun and unique and keeps things interesting.
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Forager not really being dead during the Lobo fight was super-predictable. But they do love their shocking violence. I'd compare them to a 90's comic, but honestly, there wasn't actually that much blood and gore in the 90s comics. It's closer to the modern comics as exemplified by Geoff Johns.
Also Lobo's finger is totally going to turn into Slobo.
Why did they kill Ocean Master? Because violence. And I guess they needed to establish why the bad guys wouldn't in fact attack all those characters in one place. Which could be done without beheading Ocean Master, but whatever.
I didn't like Cyborg much as first but he grew on me. As did Halo, Forager and Geo-Force, for that matter.
The Vandal Savage episode was an absolute slog to get through. Didn't really have anything to say other than "Hey don't forget, these villains are still out there. Also Vandal Savage is a savage, in case you didn't know." Also David Kaye is now voicing Vandal Savage. That's pretty neat. I totally didn't know that was him. When he appears again I'll have to listen for that.
Gwendolyn Yeo was a good choice to voice Lady Shiva.
We finally get the television debut of Cassandra Cain aka Orphan and Stephanie Brown as Spoiler! Pretty neat, but not really much to talk about.
Harper Row AND the Court of Owls? Apparently we got some Scott Sydner fans in here. Lot of Harpers in this show.
LOVED the Beast Boy episode. That was some good satire. I think that might have been my favorite episode of the whole season. And Hynden Walch was a good choice to take over the role of the princess, even if they only did it because they had the Teen Titans cast on hand for the episode.
The cliffhanger with Terra...yeah it makes sense to leave on that. More Slade Wilson kids. He sure gets around these days! Except in Arrow, of course.
Right,the finger;that didnt really cross my mind,but they would do that,wouldnt they?
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I get that they killed Ocean Master to prove villains are for real,yo--but this was supposedly a major villain,that they pretty much never used.Seriously,this guy is Aquamans brother,you think that would be important at some point.
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And I guess they maybr,possibly,not really killed Starro.Who was in the tank next to him?I guess thats meant to be important.
At least we got a passable space battle out of it.Even if it creates a later seasons Stargate paradox. As in nobody noticed huge space fleets duking it out in Earth orbit.Ofc,this being the DCU,thats just a slow tuesday.
-Who would win- Batman or Superman?
-Thats stupid,why would they fight?
Well memed,show,well memed.
Totally forgot about that joke.