Hey Guys and Gals, I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this, if not, could a Mod please place this in the correct spot?
Basically, both my Daughter and my Niece are Artists, and are looking to upgrade from using a Pencil/Paper and Mouse/GIMP or PaintDotNet, to a Tablet of some sort. Both Girls want to take their Art to a more Professional, and Digital, Level. Unfortunately, they're stuck with me, who has no idea where to begin looking, or what kind of price range this is going to take us to.
If anyone has any suggestions, ideas, weblinks, etc. that they could point me towards, there are a pair of Imaginative, Creative, and Artistic Girls that would be extremely grateful...and hopefully, one day, have their names on their own Books.
Thank you all in advance. You'll make me Dad and Uncle of the Year. :D
Well, if they want to go the Photoshop route on a budget then I'd suggest GIMP which is a free prog and is almost as strong as PS. If they want to go with the pro progs, you're looking at $600+ just for either Photoshop or Painter unless they get a hold of an older version. As for stylluses and such, the prices range all over the place. While I've never used any - the mouse is what I prefer - the wacom and cintiq brands are what I see a lot of the pros use. Thing is, they run on the expensive side from what I hear.
Forgot to mention: While cheaper, I'd avoid Photoshop Elements as it's very weak as an art program. And for the sake of sanity AVOID PHOTOSHOP CC OR ANY MONTHLY PAY VERSIONS OF PHOTOSHOP! You have to be logged in to use it, you'll pay way more than the prog is worth in a year, you never actually own the prog, and the minute you miss a payment you've lost all your Photoshop abilities!
I've had Wacom tablets for... is it really 20 years? There used to be a "cheap" one around $35 new, maybe $25 refurbished, but they don't even make those anymore (I had to give it up because they quit making mice and stylus' for it, and I wore them out). I've got a little Bamboo that works pretty good.
Lately, because of people here talking about it, I've been tying to do some stuff with a mouse, like I used to. I figure that it's a skill worth having. Still, it's hard to beat drawing with a pencil compared to a bar of soap.
Quote from: Deaths Jester on June 16, 2017, 11:58:34 PM
Forgot to mention: While cheaper, I'd avoid Photoshop Elements as it's very weak as an art program. And for the sake of sanity AVOID PHOTOSHOP CC OR ANY MONTHLY PAY VERSIONS OF PHOTOSHOP! You have to be logged in to use it, you'll pay way more than the prog is worth in a year, you never actually own the prog, and the minute you miss a payment you've lost all your Photoshop abilities!
I will echo what DJ said about Elements. Unfortunately, I'm not sure you can even find a current copy of Photoshop that isn't a monthly subscription anymore. However, I'm not sure what has been added to more recent versions of Photoshop (i.e.: within the last 10 years) that are really that fundamentally different than an older version, and worth the price.
I do know that Photoshop CS2 is essentially free now, ever since their validation server for it died and it would have cost them more than it was worth to rebuild it. They provided links to the downloads and a special reg code so that it would work without talking to their server (just need to make sure to tell it to never look for updates, since it won't find them).
A few months back I went looking for a newer version of PS and could not find a way to buy one from Adobe, just a daily "rent" fee.
Agreed with the others. Avoid CC PS versions, or any CC Adobe for that matter and stay to CS#. CS2 is again free and pretty much any plugins needed for :ff: and that you'll find in tutorials are made for that one. Higher number versions imo do not offer much in the way of improvements anyways and the gui just becomes less convenient over versions, so stick with CS2 especially if it's for someone just getting into it. Also works very well with Wacom here.
I've got more to say about Photoshop and a bit about other progs but don't have the time just now to post. Just saying...will be a giant post coming sometime.
Thanks guys, it looks like we may be sticking with GIMP. But as far as Tablets go, is Wacom the main name brand?
DJ, I'd still like to see your big post, see about eventual other options.
(This is not the big post...)
Wacom is the industry standard for styllus/tablets and they have a wide range of them. There are a few other brands out there but they don't get the coverage that Wacom does - mainly cause Wacom has been doing things very well for a long time.
I'd advise you look into subscribing to ImagineFX magazine. It's a Brit mag that covers the fantasy/sci-fi art industry and reviews programs and such. Truthfully, you should get it because each issue is filled with tutorials and artist insights that range across the art gamut - from anatomy tutorials to creating a fantasy landscape to what's currently going on in the industry to traditional artwork. It's a bit pricey for 13 issuer (about $100 a year of print version, I think), due to shipping, but it's def worth it!
The reco depends on your daughter and niece's ages and what kind of art they want to do; it also depends on current hardware and budget.
For younger artists wanting to draw and paint, simple and fun should be the goal. In that case, Corel Painter Essentials could be great.
If they're older and want to get into art in college, especially design, then you should probably bite the bullet and go for Photoshop (+ maybe Illustrator), as it's the industry standard. No, I don't like the idea of monthly payments, but at least it's much cheaper than the $800 Photoshop used to cost and which lasted maybe 3 years before you had to upgrade; pro tool, pro price. Alternatives include Corel Draw and Affinity Photo; both are solid, but not much used by the mainstream pro design community. I can't comment on Gimp, as it's been many years since I last checked (it certainly didn't compare favourably to Photoshop at the time, apart from on price).
If they're into web design (rather than digital illustration) and on Macs (the standard for professional 2D designers, even if Windows has progressed a lot), you could also look into Sketch, which is becoming the new tool of choice fast. Note that all of these programs should have educational rebates.
BTW, Wacoms are nice, but being able to see directly what you draw is much more natural; if money is no object, the latest iPad Pro + Apple Pencil + something like Affinity Photo is probably the nec plus ultra (cheaper and better than the Cintiq).
If they go the Ipad way, I'd encourage them to go with ProCreate instead. It's got more ability under the hood and a longer track record...which I'll talk more about in the big post.
As for the "seeing" that Epi mentioned, many of Wacoms devices nowadays include screen picture displays or some form of touchscreen ability...if need be I can ramble about what's out there in a future post.
Whether they go game graphic work or more "art" (book covers, film, etc) work, you'll find that the computer side of things is becoming more an even split on Windows/Mac. It used to be a Mac dominated world but I've seen a definite uptick in those using Windows (and on rare occassions Linux) in lately. Course, I'm talking from the freelance and tiny studios doing contract game concepting position...within the larger studios, my info is a bit sparser.
Anyways, still working on getting the post together but I'll try to get it up before the end of the week.
Quote from: Deaths Jester on June 19, 2017, 04:03:11 AM
If they go the Ipad way, I'd encourage them to go with ProCreate instead.
This. Procreate (http://procreate.art/) is an extremely powerful and versatile app. It's my favorite drawing program-- I use it so much that now when I draw with regular pencil and paper I sometimes instinctively two-finger tap to undo. :lol:
Ya, Wacom is the industry standard for drawing tablets. I lucked out and was given one as a gift a few years back. Though most people use tablets as there personal computer anyways now so it's sort of null and void. A drawing tablet really only introduced the features that weren't present and are now in tablets anyways so it's sort of obsolete.
Price ranges on drawing tablets run form about $30 (Huion's Graphic table "kit") to $2000 (Wacom Cintiq 22HD Touch Interactive Pen Display (DTH2200) - which is a def pro model). Most of Wacom's entry level stuff is ranges around the $60 (Wacom Bamboo CTL471 Pen Tablet for PC/MAC) to $100 (Wacom Intuos Art Pen and Touch digital graphics, drawing & painting tablet - small size, three versions available) range. IF you wanted to go a bit more pro than entry level stuff or were looking for a little lower price on the higher end stuff, I'd consider a looking into a refurbished Wacom perhaps - you can save a bit of money there and they still work pretty well. Or you could do like I do and stick with the mouse and just upgrade it....it's cheaper but if you want them to really explore their art side and they have some background in drawing/traditional techniques already then I'd go with the drawing tablets. Mice are great but it takes a lot of extra time to create what some folks can with a tablet, plus you have to change your style of doing things with a mouse unless you originally began with it. There are top-grade artists out there who only use a mouse and keyboard (many come from places where getting a hold of a drawing tablet is next to impossible or are like me where the only tablet you had a chance at buying were out of financial reach so they stuck with the mouse and never moved past it) but most artists you some type of drawing tablet or IPad nowadays. (Is beginning to ponder why he's always the one coming up with this stuff.........hmmm...... :P)
Coincidently, if the software need is indeed light, the aforementioned Corel Painter Essentials is available on HumbleBundle.com right now (along with other stuff) for ~$9. Mind you, their server seems to be experiencing very heavy loads, so a bit of patience is required.
This is more what they're looking at right now. I think both want to be able to Draw on the Tablet, and see what they are doing as they're doing it. Both are mainly used to drawing with Pencil/Paper. Both are Windows Girls, and will probably stay that way, mainly because I've been pushing them to use Google Docs.
QuoteAs for the "seeing" that Epi mentioned, many of Wacoms devices nowadays include screen picture displays or some form of touchscreen ability...if need be I can ramble about what's out there in a future post.
QuoteWhether they go game graphic work or more "art" (book covers, film, etc) work, you'll find that the computer side of things is becoming more an even split on Windows
Quote from: Epimethee on June 22, 2017, 12:48:13 AM
Coincidently, if the software need is indeed light, the aforementioned Corel Painter Essentials is available on HumbleBundle.com right now (along with other stuff) for ~$9. Mind you, their server seems to be experiencing very heavy loads, so a bit of patience is required.
Corel Painter? Is that what was previously Paint Shop Pro?
I really appreciate everyone's input here. Thank you (About a thousand times over).
> Corel Painter? Is that what was previously Paint Shop Pro?
Unless they merged the two products, no: Corel Painter was born as Fractal Design Painter. It was the first commercial "paint" program to really emulate real-life painting (its original packaging used an actual can of paint).
Painter and Paint Shop Pro are two different progs. Painter is a pro grade prog with a pro grade price while PSP has become more of a photo editting and hobby prog. I'm torn on recommending Painter Essentials because it's a bit like Photoshop Essentials - a heavily watered down, hobbyist version of the bigger prog and they both leave out some major tools/features that are very useful. The price though is right and it can give them an early taste of Painter.
Will be posting part 1 (going to break things up to make it easier on everyone) of big post tomorrow.
Quote from: Deaths Jester on June 22, 2017, 01:45:16 AMI'm torn on recommending Painter Essentials because it's a bit like Photoshop Essentials - a heavily watered down, hobbyist version of the bigger prog and they both leave out some major tools/features that are very useful.
Obviously we don't know the girls ages, but I'm guessing they're not getting into college or university for a few years. If I'm right, a full-featured and complex app might hinder more than help, as the learning curve might turn them off digital art.
My Daughter is going on 16, my Niece on 18. Both have been Drawing for as long as I can remember, and I've been pushing them towards Digital Art for quite some time. They're both finally taking the leap, so now I want to make sure that they're able to get off on the right foot. They both already know that they want a Tablet to Draw on, but other than that, they're not sure what else they need. I suggested that they play around with GIMP and PaintDotNet, just so that they get the feel of using a Digital Format. Other than that though, I know nothing.
CB's suggestion is a good one. Let them play with Paint.net or GIMP and give them an idea of what is possible. There used to be a series of books entitled "Learn (Photoshop, Illustrator, Corel Draw, whatever) in 24 hours", or something like that. There was another, similar series, but the title escapes me. I thought both books were very useful for the basics.
CB: If your nieces go into commercial art, don't let them neglect pen and paper. I worked on a job with a bunch of college students who, if the power went out, would have been unable to draw a (reasonably) straight line. It was sad, but I think their classes might have been taught that way.
DG: That's why I had mentioned ImagineFX, they cover different areas within the hndustry and usually have tutorials and tips for multtiple progs and traditional media, from basic stuff to advanced - though they still have issuses that are just Photoshop tuts sometimes.
CB: I'm guessing you'd like a rundown on drawing tablets by Wacom and other's too?
Quote from: Deaths Jester on June 22, 2017, 05:11:38 AM
DG: That's why I had mentioned ImagineFX, they cover different areas within the hndustry and usually have tutorials and tips for multtiple progs and traditional media, from basic stuff to advanced - though they still have issuses that are just Photoshop tuts sometimes.
CB: I'm guessing you'd like a rundown on drawing tablets by Wacom and other's too?
That would be extremely awesome DJ! And even more appreciated. Thank you!!!
(This is part 1 of the big post wherein I tell the story of why Adobe kicked CS out and went with CC plus a look at some other programs out there. It will take me a while to put together a rundown on the drawing tablet/styluses out in the market because I'm not as familiar with them as I am with the programs right now.)
Gather round you young ones and listen as the old man tells the tale of Adobe and the evil it perpetuated on the art community...
Back in 2013, Adobe put all their image programs into one thing, which they called the Adobe Creative Cloud, and turned to the idea of monthly rental fees. Now instead of buying Adobe Photoshop and owning it outright, you had to pay a certain fee (the fees range depending on what you want - in the beginning to get Photoshop you had to pay the maximum which gave you access to everything). While it meant that your Creative Cloud version of Photoshop is always on the cutting edge, it also means that missing a payment equals losing all the programs.
Why did they go this route? Well, it turns out that Adobe felt they were not getting enough money out of just outright selling the program to the artists. They pointed to the fact that some folks – myself included – would buy say, Photoshop 7 when it was new and never buy another version of Photoshop because they got all they needed out of that version (yes, I'm still using Photoshop 7 – for the few things I need Photoshop for, it's perfect). So, in comes the money grabbing system of Adobe Creative Cloud.
When it was first implement, a lot of artists gave Adobe the finger. Many who had been extremely loyal to Adobe's products and had updated their Photoshop CS programs to CS6 stopped updating their stuff. Even now, a lot of those same artists are using Photoshop CS6 and most tutorials involving Photoshop online nowadays are primarily for CS6, not CC. Those of us that had kept the older programs or felt truly screwed over by Adobe, jumped ship completely and went to programs such as Painter, GIMP, ArtRage, etc. While Photoshop is still the mainstay of the industry – due in large part to being around the longest – the other programs, esp Painter (who is the other major mainstay in the industry), have gained a lot more support over the past few years. Why? It comes down tho the fact that with these programs you still own them so if times get lean financially, you still are able to create art unlike with CC.
Since the implementation of Adobe's Creative Cloud, the art industry has started to go through what some call a digital art revolution. More programs are showing up and artists are tinkering with different programs trying to get away from the Photoshop standard. While the big companies and some of the richer freelancers are using Photoshop CC, a lot have gone elsewhere which has encouraged the programmers to break out new ideas.
I had planned on doing this next part in one fell swoop but there are just so many programs out right now (thus the "digital art revolution" mention above), I can't cover everything at once. Instead, I'm going to break things up into a few posts over the next few weeks, This will allow me to go through what is currently out there right now, read up on what's currently going on with certain programs, and write up my own loose ideas for everyone to digest without rushing through things and leaving something out.
So without further ado, here's the first batch of programs out in the digital art industry not called Adobe CC along with a watered down view of them:
Painter – While considered the other art industry standard, Painter doesn't have as large a following as Photoshop does. Part of that has to do with the fact that while Photoshop's always been about art "manipulation", Painter has always revolved around painting. What I mean when I say that Painter is about painting, it's about recreating the look and feel of traditional art (pen, paper, paint, etc) digitally. Thus, you'll find more artists using Painter who were trained in traditional art or who are transitioning from traditional to digital – I don't fit that situation but I still prefer Painter. If you want brushes that emulate watercolors, acrylics, oils, and other such tradition styles or if you want to do glazes over your art – then Painter, while expensive and at times has a steep learning curve (Corel did a lot with Painter 2017, the most recent edition, to ease that curve quite a bit and make the interface a bit more user friendly), is the one that many in the art world would point you to. It's got more support and a longer lineage than some of the other "traditional painting" programs that follow plus you can save you files in multiple formats that are easily transferred over to Photoshop (such as PSD, TGA, etc). Current version and Price – Corel Painter 2017 (Mac/PC); about $ 429, though you can get an educational discount that bring sit down to about $300
ProCreate – This one is an Apple Ipad only program/app but what it lacks in platform, it makes up for in ability and is quickly becoming more prevalent within the art industry. Originally intended as a portable sketch and paint app for artists, the developers have spent a lot of time in the last few versions in making it into a pro grade program. Straight off you get 128 customization brushes that range from traditional media to spray paints to the good old Round brush we all know and sometimes love. The most recent version – 3.2 – allows you to import Photoshop documents into it and keep the files layers and blend modes as well as upping the layer count that ProCreate allows. Heck, you can even record and playback your painting with some new video capabilities all for less than $10. Now, one thing is Procreate version 3.2 is a bit of a resource hog and requires you to have the most recent Ipad Pro and also encourages the Apple Pencil. If you have the money for that, then this is THE art app for pro artists in need of mobility. Current version and Price – ProCreate 3.2; about $6.00 after you get an Ipad and such
Rebelle – This program is the new kid on the block – having been around for only 3 to 4 years and on only it's second version – and it's looking to try to unset some of the big dogs like Painter. Much like Painter, Rebelle is about recreating traditional media digitally and in some places like watercolour (it allows you to actually blow and dry the paint over a certain amount of time if you want) and acrylics it outpaces Painter and for half the price. There are a few problems, though, with it. While your able to tilt the canvas to make the "wet" media run, drip and control how it dries, you have to be on the ball at all times or else you end up messing up what you were working extremely fast. The other big problem is Rebelle devours resources like nobody's business. All the math running behind the program's painting process is extremely complicated and computing even 25 layers of work - including water simulation, diffusion, wetting, and drying plus the watercolour effects – can cause anything weaker than a top of the line Intel I5 or similar AMD processor to scream in pain as it comes to a crawl that makes a snail look fast. Now, their current version – Rebelle 2 - sped things up a bit thanks to some new OpenGL brushes and the company that puts it out is still tinkering. You are still going to need a pretty strong computer to run this Rebelle right now though - making the initial enticing "half of what Painter costs" price less palatable when you realize you can run Painter relatively fast and stable on a lesser computer. Current version and Price – Rebelle 2.0 (Mac/PC); about $90
ArtRage – ArtRage was originally started out as another Painter clone but amazingly very early on the developers realized that it was best to work on recreating one traditional piece of media as best they could before going on to work on another one. So back in 2007, the company launched ArtRage as a straightforward oil-painting program and they did it right – making the flow and textures of the oil paint just like the actual malleable medium. Since then, ArtRage's developers have continued to add more to it. Currently on version 4, ArtRage now includes a full complement of pastel and pencil tools (I refer to them as tools because unlike in Photoshop or such, each one acts completely different so it's a much bigger leap from going from a Felt pen to an Oil brush than just choosing a different-shaped brush), perspective guides, and a host of other things. Oh, and that Ipad mentioned earlier? If you got one of those or an Android tablet, ArtRage can link that up with your desktop allowing you to record what you are doing and allowing you to scale your mobile paintings up to any resolution you want for printing. On the Ipad/Android it's about equivalent in price as ProCreate is but if I were you, I'd double check that because they just released a new version about a month ago. Current version and Price – ArtRage 5(Mac/PC) - just released a month a go, so I don't have much info on it, and you might be able to find a free download of ArtRage 4 online if you look around but that might just be a rumor; about $80
Clip Studio Paint – Don't let the name fool you, this program is used by a lot few comic book artists. Formally called Manga Studio before Smith Micro bought it up, Clip Studio Paint is aimed squarely for comic artists and animators with Perspective Rulers (while Photoshop has that now, this program had it in the beginning), faster flatting, a dedicated too to add tones (aka Letratone, or Benday dots) to artwork, and a non-destructive method of converting any layer into a blue line with one single button press. The price on it depends on how much you want to do comic work – if you are a hobbyist go with the much cheaper Clip Studio Paint Pro but for those that want to truly be a comic artist, spend the extra money and go with the Clip Studio Paint EX edition. One thing is, Clip Studio Paint is a niche market program (comic artists and animators) and it's interface and tools cater to them. It might be perfect for what they want to do or it might be nothing more but a place to start – it all depends on them with this program. Current version and Price – Clip Studio Art Pro/Clip Studio EX (Mac/PC); about $50 for Pro/ $220 for EX
Wow, I have a lot of reading to do.
Actually, this is something that we may want to consider sticking.
Good idea. Maybe when it's finished DJ can do a version that you can post at the FF Resources group, too.
When I get finished?!?! The minute I finish this thing I'll probably have to go back and review the one's I've already talked about because a new version will have come out. And these are just five of them...I've got a good eight or nine to go, for sure...not counting the tablet/styli.
Edit: Strike 8 or 9 and make that 11 progs, one of which is a freebie that might blow GIMP away in ability and all.
One of us can cut and paste...
Well, once I'm done with this run, I guess I can cut and paste the stuff while also removing the current version and price parts as those are bound to change. I can even post that in a seperate post so the mods could sticky that instead of this long rambling stuff but that's up to you guys and the mods. I should have the next part ready by the middle of the week if all goes well...
I use a Wacom Bamboo Fun I got as a gift several years ago. It's been reliable, easy to figure out and use and compatible with about everything. 100% plug and play. In fact it took over as my laptops mouse for that matter.
I had hoped to get more than these four programs that follow down but life has kept me busy with a few other things lately. Anyway, here's Part 2 wherein I continue ramble incoherently about digital art programs out in the marketplace right now:
Paint Shop Pro – One of the stable mates to Painter and part of Corel's batch of thoroughbreds, Paint Shop Pro's been around since 1990, meaning it's only a few years younger than Photoshop. Heck, it even mimics Photoshop in some regards offering a-- wide range of designer and artist needs, including photo-editing and illustration. The difference is a combination of price - Paint Shop Pro - is much cheaper and,capabilities. While capable and well-thought out, Paint Shop Pro probably won't offer those seasoned creative sorts with a lot of surprises and will leave some wanting more. While you can do most of the regular things you can do in Photoshop in Paint Shop Pro, things like Layer masks are limited and inflexible. Also don't expect the brushes and other such tools to challenge the wide range that one might find in Photoshop and Painter but they are still manageable. Truthfully, PSP is best for hobbyists/beginners who want to get their digital art beaks wet or as a companion program to Painter (create the work in Painter and then use PSP's Manage/Edit tools to get that last minute tweak for size and such). There is a more expensive version of PSP out there called Paint Shop Pro Ultimate but other than adding tools and features geared for photographers and a heftier price tag, it's not that much better. Current version and Price – Paint Shop Pro X9/Paint Shop Pro X9 Ultimate (Masc/PC); about $50 for the base model and $70 for the Ultimate version though prices are currently fluctuated on both versions right now.
Mischief – You want a canvas that has no predetermined size or border you can zoom in and out at you own content in a vector-based program? (Before some one asks what's the difference between vector-based art and Photoshop/Painter's raster-based artwork, vector-based artwork's images are essentially made up of points and are infinitely scalable – unlike raster-format artwork. Most of the time vector art is associated with crisp, flat artwork akin to poster artwork and such and the stuff you see that comes out of Adobe Illustrator – another vector-based program.) Mischief is what you want then even if it doesn't stand up to the big guys like Painter and Photoshop. Mischief is a bit more of a vector-based brainstorming and idea tinkering tool than a true art program. True, you can jump right into sketching as every new file starts you off on a transparent layer. Also it supports multiple layers with all the prerequisite options; the ability to save/export your works as either JPEG, PNG, or the standard PSD; and a line smoothing tool - making it great for inking works. Problems though start up when you look at what tools you have to use. Instead of a wide variety of brushes, Mischief comes with but six basic brushes that aren't exactly happy with customization and have zero texture support. Also it lacks any for of the almost ubiquitous lasso tool which makes painting with selections impossible. Recently things have gotten a bit complicated with what is going on with Mischief as the company that developed it – The Foundry – has stopped putting out updates for Mischief. More concerning is when a few of the digital art magazines asked for comments on what was up with Mischief, the Foundry never returned their calls or gave the reporters the silent, cold-shoulder treatment. I'm not sure what to say concerning this but for now, I'd steer clear of Mischief until further notice – giving the silent treatment to reputable digital art magazines is extremely questionable in my book. Current version and Price – Mischief 2.1 (PC/Mac); about $25 for the full version
Black Ink – This one is extremely new to the field, so new that the only places you can get it are Steam and Bleank's (the developer of Black Ink) website – there is currently no commercially available (in store via disc) version of Black Ink. You read that right, no Black Ink discs or program in a box is currently available, mainly because Bleank considers Black Ink still under development even though they're selling a working, non-beta version of it currently. So what is Black Ink? In one word, Black Ink is experimental. Before you ask, I'm not talking about it being still being viewed as "under development", either. While Bleank might describe Black Ink as "digital painting embracing the nature of digital" (IE no traditional media brushes here), the real truth goes beyond that idea. In Black Ink, every mark you make is experimental because most of the 72 included brushes are extremely unpredictable. Some brush tips will warp and pulsate with the movement of a stylus while others will change the colour of the paint based on how hard the stylus is pressed while others have particle effects built into them that give everything an extremely random feel. Now, you do have some control over what happens thanks to a brush controller which allows you to customize the brushes but be warned, when you start out it's complex and confusing. Normally, I'd say this would be a perfect program for folks interested in creating abstract art or random pieces but the fact that it currently only supports eight layers and you can only save in either BKD (Black Ink's native format), 16-bit PNG, and JPEG works against it. Currently, I'd advise staying away from Black Ink until Bleank gets the layer count up and allows you to save work in a PSD format. Current version and Price – Black Ink (PC/Mac); about $60 which allows you to get free updates until Bleank deems Black Ink no longer "in development"
SketchBook Pro – Simplicity in drawing, that's how SketchBook Pro likes to advertise itself. Brought to you by those great folks that own 3dMax – Autodesk, if you don't know – SketchBook Pro disregards the idea of offering tools to design, to build architectural blocks or to use photos as your starting point. In effect, SketchBook Pro is only interested in providing the artist with a digital huge canvas with a limitless amount layers and 100-plus brushes to cover with drawings. User-friendly, SketchBook Pro avoids overwhelming the user when they first open the program as it encourages straight-to-the-point access to tools and actions. Find yourself using a certain brush often, you can access it from a circular toolbar just off the canvas as all you most frequently used tools pop up there. Add to that, the program is pretty generous with file support and comparability, including PSD files. Now this might sound all nice and rosy but SketchBook Pro does have a few problems hiding in that nice pretty package. First, it's got a bit of a learning curve as it pushes and artist to solve problems practically instead of relying on software tricks to fix things. Also, SketchBook Pro is all about drawing. Sure, it has the ability to do perspective lines, paints,and allows you to build up layers for such paintings – it's just not as strong there as it is when comes to drawing. Finally, it's not used as often in the industry as some programs and that has to do in part to a pricing method similar to Adobe (I'll break it down in pricing). Truly, SketchBook Pro is a great tool and it even gets better if an artist has already used some form of art software beforehand (having that experience makes the adaption easier). Would I recommend it? Depends on the person and artist but for those into drawing a lot, I'd consider pointing them to this one. Current version and Price – SketchBook Pro (PC/Mac/iOS/Android); currently there are a few different ways to pay for the PC/Mac version - $2.99 per month/ $ 24.99 a year which gets you constant updates and new brushes when they become available or you can pay a straight, one-shot license cost of $65 for the program as is with no future updates; App cost is unknown (I couldn't find any pricing when I went looking)
I doubt I'll get the final part of the program rundown done this week. Just too much going on...
I apologize for not replying to this sooner, but I really can't thank you enough for all the time that you've put into this thread. It's been beneficial on a personal level, given me something new to look at in regards to Skinning for FF, and will hopefully encourage others to find their creative side as well.
By the end of this week I should have the last part done (got to do write ups for two more progs to go with the four or five I've already done). After that I'll get to tablet/stylli where I'll mainly be talking about two manufactorers - there are quite a few companies that make cheap, quickie drawing tablets but only two that make truly top notch tablets.
:)
Off topic, I JUST got the Painter 2016 program I ordered a few days back so I'm going to be delving into it after I get the last of these art programs knocked out. Who knows what may happen....
EDIT: well, that didn't go as planned. Program won't install. It loads up and displays the first splash page but when you go to hit the Next button, nothing happens. <sighes> Back it goes for a refund and I go back to looking for a newer Painter prog than Painter 11. Never had this problem with Painter ever...hope it's just a fluke.
So here we are at Part 3 of me yammering incoherently about the current digital art programs that aren't Photoshop:
GIMP – The free little program that when it first came out touted itself as a Photoshop killer. Unhappily, that wasn't true in the beginning as the program was riddled with bugs and the GUI stunk – having to have multiple windows open at once to just do one little thing made a lot of folks crazy. Since that horrid start, the developers of GIMP have continued to tinker with the program and trying to improve upon their mistakes. Now in version 2.8, GIMP has really come a long way. First up is a complete overhaul of the UI which allows you no to switch to a single-window mode (no more having tons of windows open and disconnected tools) – something everyone was eager for. Add to that a reworked selection of tools that mostly work like you'd expect them to work in a Photoshop clone – there has been a few problems with the eraser tool where it stops erasing for no reasons occasionally. Now a much more stable and workable program, GIMP has come along way from when it started. However, there are still some major problems hiding within it. First up is the above m,mentioned Eraser tool problem and from what I've found, no body knows what's really going on there. GIMP also isn't exactly friendly with tablet/styli – you often are forced to spend some extra time within GIMP's preferences to configure the way the program interacts with the input device before things are fixed. Finally, the last update for GIMP was back in late 2015/ early 2016 which is a bit questionable for a freebie trying to create a Photoshop killer. I would've expected at least an updated version out by now especially with the continued glitches within the program – most of which have been documented on the GIMP forums. That lack of an update keeps me from encouraging GIMP as anything ore than a hobbyist/beginner tool that one uses as a companion program to Photoshop or Painter. It's perfect for things like skins and doing some artwork but if you want something with more support and less glitches, it's best to look into a different program. Current version and Price – GIMP 2.8 (PC/MAC); Free
BRAND NEW NEWS: GIMP's website was hacked recently (the hacker left a calling card on the website's front page). I'd be hesitant to download anything from there at the moment but if you do, I'd STRONGLY advise you run a very thorough and up-to-date virus scan on everything.
Paintstorm Studio – Paintstorm Studio is a small time program that flies under the radar. It's main selling point is the ability to customize everything, from the brushes to the panels and down to the interface. The problem with that is, the first time you open the program – if your computer doesn't scream for mercy as it tries to load everything up - you are blitzed with a crap ton of panels of different options, all of which block the view of the canvas. While these panels of options are scalable and the look and opacity of them is customizable, allowing you to change them so they don't obstruct the canvas – it's a highly unusual experience to have to organize the workspace in a painting program before being able to start painting. Add to that the lack of intuitive controls with the amount of option, no tool tips, and tabs that don't nest behind each other (even though they appearance of said tabs seems like one could) – and frustration can start to set in long before you get to the meat of the program. That said meat? The utterly free reign you have on customizing your brushes. Paintstorm gives you more options than any program, including Photoshop, at tinkering with a brush's behavior and often a category will have numerous subcategories within it that are editable too. With so much brush control and customization, you pretty much get full control of the program's brush engine. If you want to make the most of the plethora of tools available, it's recommended that you view the tutorials included with the program and watch them with the program open. Is Paintstorm, though, worth getting? That depends on what type of artist you are. If you are the type of artist who enjoys spending hours tinkering with your brushes and getting them just how you like them then Paintstorm is the way to go. Any other type of artist, especially those that want to open a program and get right to painting, should probably look into some other program. Current version and Price – Paintstorm Studio 1.5 (PC/Mac); about $20
Affinity Photo – Another relativity new program that touts itself as a Photoshop killer, Affinity Photo started out as a Mac only program that did a pretty good job of aping Photoshop's basic look and feel. In fact, for Mac users, Affinity Photo offers some areas that bypass Photoshop's performance. The first striking difference between Photoshop and Affinity is speed. Where in Photoshop you might've had to wait a few seconds for a setting change to take effects, Affinity Photo instantaneously happened which allows an artist to get further into that supposed "zone" that makes the creative blood flow faster. Ever resize something in Photoshop and notice how it seems to "destroy"/pixelate the picture? In Affinity Photo you don't have to worry about that as every layer to be scaled non-destructively which comes in useful if you find yourself needing to add objects to images in illustrations. Heck, there's even the mach-vaunted million per cent zoom which allows you to get down to single pixel painting if you want. Now before you start thinking that Affinity Photo is the next best thing since Batman-themed footed pajamas (or in Benton's case, the only pair of Aquaman-themed footed pajamas known to exist), there are some problems hiding under all that juicy goodness. First up, Affinity Photo was primarily just a Mac only program, though the most recent version appears to be both Mac and PC friendly. I have yet to see anything describing how the PC version works but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there are probably a few bugs that will need working out. I say that because this is the first time the developers have wandered into the PC community which is bound to bring some unforeseen and unpredictable problems for them. I may be wrong, though. Many of the tools and features are either a bit behind the curve or don't exist yet due in large part to the product's youth. When asked about Affinity's problems, one artist who has used quite a few different programs over the years said, "Right now, Affinity Photo is rough and rugged." Currently, Affinity Photo is still viewed as a companion program to Photoshop – the ability to save in PSD format helping make that transition back and forth easier – and there are some within the art industry who scoff at work done via Affinity Photo because it isn't one of the industry standards yet. Perhaps with some further development – the developers are very interested in hearing from the product's consumers and are currently working hard to get another version out as we speak - Affinity Photo could become the equal of Photoshop at a much cheaper price and with no subscription fees required. Current version and Price: Affinity Photo V 1.6 (PC/Mac); about $50
Photoshop Elements – Once considered a watered-down version of Photoshop, Photoshop Essentials has morphed in the past few years into little more than an easy photo-editing program with a focus on social media. The interface is aimed at beginners and hobbyists who are used to Twitter and Facebook more than actual art programs. If you want to do actual art in Photoshop Element, the only tool you'll find of use is the brush tool which has limited customization but that is about it. Everything else within the program is skewed towards photo editing, starting with red eye removal, moving on to filters that let you put in different photographic effects, and finally tools that allow you to apply corrections to the pictures exposure. It great if you have a lot of stock images that you need to tweak for something like preliminary matte painting work or to get a certain look for references. That's about all Photoshop Elements has to offer someone looking to create artwork digitally. Current version and Price: Adobe Photoshop Elements 15 (PC/Mac); about $70
Painter Essentials – Where Photoshop Elements has gone the photo route, Painter Essentials has gone more towards those that are looking at creating digital art as a hobby, rather than as a day job. The first hint that it's aspiring towards the hobbyists is the lack of some of the higher grade tools normally found in Painter as well as the inclusion of a tool called the Photo Art tool. I've never ran into the Photo Art tool in the full version of Painter but supposedly this tool allows one to choose a digital photo and turn it into what Corel claims is a "beautiful work of art in three easy steps". Mainly it allows you to choose a number of preset styles such as Oil Painting and Impressionist and the program will paint the photo in that chosen style. Not really something most of us looking to truly create digital art are looking for but the hobbyists seem to enjoy it. What about creating actual art from scratch? Well, Painter Essentials seems to do a good job at aping some of the main features of the full version of Painter – the ability to choose the material of the canvas and a nice complement of brushes and paints – while not overwhelming one with choices. If you are a beginner or want to tinker with creating digital art with a traditional feel in your spare time and cheap, Painter Essentials is a program that might be perfect for you. If you want something more powerful and closer to a pro grade program, it's best to avoid Painter Essentials and move on up to something stronger. Current version and Price: Painter Essentials 5 [I think 6 might actually be in development or out but am unsure] ( PC/Mac); about $40
CorelDRAW Graphics Suite – Once upon a time you could buy CorelDraw without having to buy this overblown collection of stuff but nowadays you're stuck paying the same price as a new version of Painter to get CorelDRAW. So what do you get for that price and what is CorelDRAW? Well for the price, you get CorelDraw as well as Corel Photo Paint – an imaging editing program that apes some pf Photoshop's abilities – and a load of fonts, clip art, and assorted graphics. The main draw is CorelDraw - a vector-based drawing program akin to Illustrator and the previous mentioned Mischief - the third stallion in Corel's stable. However, unlike Mischief and Illustrator, CorelDRAW takes the ordinary crisp, flat artwork vector art is known for and tosses in the ability to recreate the look and feel of natural tools. You could say, that with the number of brushes and pressure-sensitive controls, CorelDRAW brings Painter's abilities to vector drawing. Heck, they even tossed in a new node control for those wanting to manipulating their vector curves and lines. Aside from that, you get a photo manipulation program that is decent, a basic web design tool, a wasteful Barcode Wizard, and a LiveSketch tool that aims to give you a more natural drawing environment in a vector program. However, most of that is just wasted junk added on to justify the price. If it was possible to buy CorelDRAW as a completely separate program with a generous price, I might be keen to recommend this over other vector-based programs. Unhappily that doesn't seem possible right now and from what I've seen on Corel's website, it's not going to be an idea they'll be following in the future. Current version and Price: CorelDraw Graphics Suite 2017 (PC/Mac); $499
Krita – Like GIMP, Krita is an open source program available for free. First envisioned back in 1998 by two engineers, Krita tries it's best to bridge both Photoshop and Painter's abilities. For a long time it didn't succeed due in large part to a lack of funding and the lack of enthusiasm from the digital art community. That's changed recently, however, as Krita's developers spearheaded a successful Kickstarter campaign in the past few years to help push the program's development and appears to be starting a new Kickstarter campaign this year. That first Kickstarter campaign brought Krita back into the digital art world spotlight as it showed off what the program can do. Fire it up and the first thing you'll see is an intuitive layout that will look familiar to anyone who has used Photoshop or Painter recently - with tools on the left, textures and gradients at the top, and a Painter-style colour selection triangle to the right. The program also comes packed with templates for US and Manga-style comic books, popular design ratios, DSLR camera resolutions, HDR grade painting tools, support for CYMK and RGB colour models (among others), and a variety of predefined pixel-per-inch settings – many of these you'd expect from a pro level paid-for piece of software. What about the brushes, you ask? While not as flashy as those found in Painter, Krita's 100 preset brushes are still remarkable digital versions of the real thing. If those 100 brushes aren't enough for you, the community that has grown up around the program is often creating and sharing new brushes. The biggest downside right now on Krita is a lack of Mac support though that is supposed to be something the developer is working on. It's worth looking into for anyone with a PC, not just because it's free but because it shows what's possible when enthusiasts work together. Current version: Krita (the developer has recently been putting out numerous updated versions so it's best to check their site for version numbers); Free, if you feel like chipping in, there is an option via Steam which allows you to gain access to the program with free upgrades for life for the low price of about $40 (the price might've changed since last I checked)
That's the end of the rundown of the programs that are currently receiving major buzz in the industry. Sure, I didn't cover all the programs currently available in the market at the moment. If I had covered everything,m I'd be here forever constantly working and reworking reviews and blurbs and no one wants that. I will say one final thing about the above programs before moving on: CHECK THE LICENSE!! I say that because some companies have multiple licenses for their programs – often it's something like standard, educational, upgrade, and sometimes OEM. OEM and educational license are usually a bit cheaper and are the full programs BUT some companies will not allow you to upgrade the program when a new version comes out (I know Corel doesn't support upgrades on educational versions). So what that means is that you might've saved money on the program but once you got it you are stuck with it. You might get some patches and hot fixes but when it comes time for a new version to come out, you will have to buy that the new version as if you never had the program before (no update based purchase will work on the educational or OEM versions). Upgrade licenses pretty much explains itself – you have an older version of the program and want to upgrade it to a newer version, upgrade license is what you want. You will want to watch, though, how many different versions have been released since your actual version was released. The reason is, most of the companies follow the two previous version rule – IE those programs that are two versions before the current version qualify/can be upgraded with an upgrade license.
I also advise folks to go out a try out the programs before committing a lot of money to one program. Many of the programs I've mentioned have 30-day trials available for people to tinker with and try out or like Krita and GIMP are free. Play with different programs and ideas, see what you can do and how you feel when you use them. Find one that you feel comfortable with and then go out and either buy it via the box or if possible, buy it through the trial version (usually there is a Buy Now button somewhere on trail versions if the time limit hasn't passed yet).
Also...can't believe I for got to mention this....read and study digital art magazines!! There are a lot out there and many of them review programs and such. I often recommend picking up ImagineFX because they cover a wide array of things within the art industry and always have a section for tutorials (both digital and traditional) as well as review the newest program/tablet/book/vid that has recently come out. And if you aren't looking for art tips, I suggest picking it up and checking the tutorials anyways, you'd be amazed at how many little tips and ideas that translate easily over to skinning.
Okay, now I'm off for a few weeks as I try to wrangle information on tablets/styli before showing back up with another block of text.
Beginning to look like I won't get to a rundown on drawing tablets until secone week of August, if I'm lucky. Will try to at least do a small blurb on the two brands I'll be covering along with a mention of the other groups that make lower grade ones.
Interesting stuff, DJ! I've been using Affinity Photo Mac since launch for minor stuff. The Mac version is quite stable, so it gives hope that the issues with the PC version are only growing pains. My main problem with Affinity Photo: since I've never committed enough time to learn how it work finding how to do things isn't always obvious after using Photoshop for 20+ years.
Looking forward to your take on drawing tablets.
I just re-read what I wrote and realized the amount of typos/ghost typing mistakes are in it. Guh! If I decide to do this as one form, I'll need to clean those up.
Emp, if you want to really get used to Affinity and get the most out of it, I'd suggest checking their forums. The devs pay a lot of attention to the users there and often times will take suggestions from there and add them to the next update.
Thanks for the tip on the forums, DJ. The basic issue is simply that I don't need to use an image manipulation program much these days, even at work, where I have Photoshop instead of Affinity. My current app-learning time is mostly spent on Unity and, for work, on Sketch.
As I thought, just as soon as I finished the rundown of software, Corel released Painter 2018. One good thing about that is the Amazon price for Painter 2017 has started coming down, making it possibly more palatble in price for CB and others. Worth keeping an eye on the prices at least though from what you said CB, you might wait for the tablet rundown and then decide if the cash goes better with a prog or a tablet.
Tablets, when people hear that word they automatically think of Apple's Ipad, the Kindle, or Microsoft's Surface Pro yet there is a completely different beast out there called the graphic/art tablet that predates all everything mentioned above. The problem is very few people know the difference between the two, so let's start out by defining what the differences are between a graphic/art tablet/pen tablet monitor and an Ipad/Kindle/etc.
The Kindle, Ipad, etc "tablet" first started back when Apple came out with the Ipad and decided to attach the word tablet to it – even though Wacom and their ilk already were using the word tablet for their products for years beforehand. As we all know, thanks to Apple everything that came afterwards has had the word tablet attached to it – marketing at Apple is great at slapping labels on things and the industry following suit. So, what do you get? Pretty much you get a full grade computer the size of a pad of paper. You can load programs/apps on it, you don't need any true accessories to use it (no need for a monitor, another computer, mouse, keyboard, etc), and you can do pretty much everything you can do on your desktop/laptop on these tablets within reason. As I've mentioned in the program section, there are programs that you can use with these tablets to create art but you'll still end up having to go to a true computer to do certain things. Also upgrading these versions of tablets comes down to buying the newest version of them right now – maybe in the future the manufacturers will come up with a way to upgrade them like a normal computer but I truly doubt it. These tablets are NOT the ones I'm going to talk about because while you can paint and do art on them, they do not fall within the graphic/art tablet/pen tablet monitor genre.
The tablet I'm going to talk about is the graphic tablet/pen tablet monitor made by companies like Wacom, Huion, Monoprice, and Yiynova. Pretty much, these tablets are glorified peripherals that require a computer/laptop – you can't run a program on them or surf the web and while you can use the pen tablet monitors a bit like a normal monitor, you don't have the resolution or power in one that you get from a normal monitor. The normal, run-of-the-mill graphic tablet is little more than a stylus (usually in the shape of a pen or pencil) and a pad with little dots on it (these dots are to help orient your draw pat and not all tablets have them) that you attach to your computer via a USB cord (or not if wireless). IF you think about it as a larger version of the electronic credit card signature section – with your monitor being the display section of the signature – then you pretty much on the right course (there's things like pressure sensitivity, tilt, express keys, and such involved but I'll talk about those when I get into the product section). As for the graphic tablet monitors, they are very similar to a touch screen monitor with a stylus – you can draw on the screen and it will automatically show it with no potential disconnect you might encounter with a regular tablet (some artists claim they feel like they aren't exactly drawing with a table due to the fact that their marks on the tablet don't appear there but on a monitor instead, I have no idea if it's true or not). While you may be able to go without a regular monitor with these, it's usually encouraged to keep a regular monitor for everyday things and other non-art programs.
Now that I've broke people from thinking of an Ipad when I refer to a tablet within this dissertation, I'll break down what pressure sensitivity, tilt, express keys and such are and how they pertain to the two manufacturer's products (Wacom and Huion) I'm going to cover in depth later on. Some of you might've noticed that I mentioned other manufacturers aside from Wacom and Huion earlier and probably wondering why I'm not going to cover those companies also. The reason is that aside from Wacom and Huion, most of the other companies out there are putting out tablets that are of sub par manufacturing compared to Wacom and Huion's products. They might not hurt the wallet so badly but they also don't stand up to the rigors an artist will put them through - especially one that is looking to become a professional. While Huion and Wacom products might be more expensive than their competitors (and in some cases Huion's prices undercut Wacom by quite a bit), the quality and reliability far surpass anything else out there. (Will get to this in a day or three)
:popcorn2
Wait...there's popcorn afoot?!?!
Waitaminit... the undead booze hound next to me isn't you?
Geddouddahere ya bum...
Off subject but it might prove useful to folks:
http://www.fusroda.com/ (http://www.fusroda.com/)
This group is pretty good with their stuff but their resource list is the main attraction! Got tons of sites with tutorials, graphics for textures, brushes...just tons of useful stuff!
Man, that site is insane.
...And maybe a little overwhelming. :P
Do want to note: the brushes that they have seem to have been removed even if the links are still there. Just so folks know.
Due to Harvey tossing wrenches into the works like Donkey Kong tosses barrels at Italian plumbers, it might be a bit longer till I get to the next part of this. All is okay here, just a bit chaotic.
Where you at, DJ?
North of Austin. I got more rain than Austin did though do to some stronger bands off of Harvey...no flooding persay but I've got a lot of fixing up to do. Also it's a bit chaotic right now if you're a shipping clerk (just one of my day jobs), so I'm having to stay busy trying to find things out and maybe reroute packages thru places that aren't flooded so they get where they are needed. I've barely got time to sit and unwind via art or sleep (I don't anyways so that's good), let alone dig thru magazines and type up a dissertation on tablets right now.
We'll wait. Take your time. We're having a little rain along the coast (30 miles south), and it drizzled here most of the day, but so far, no real weather.
Take care, y'hear?
While I have yet to get a chance to write up more..I have found a few vid reviews of tablets by the art great Daaken...links follow for each one.
Wacom 27QHD Touch (http://enliighten.com/blog/wacom-27qhd-touch-review/)
Huion GT-220 (http://enliighten.com/blog/huion-gt-220-review-testing/)
Will note that these two are pro grade graphic tablet monitors, so the price on them is quite...unbearable (I'll be doing my own review on them later)..and the problems Daaken met with the Huion GT-220 were because he got an early version of them - they've since fixed a lot of the problems from what I've heard. Anyways....hope that gives you some ideas of what we have coming soon....
I drool over them...
Quote from: daglob on September 01, 2017, 06:35:01 PM
I drool over them...
That's not very hygienic, DG, nor is it good for the tablet...
As a silicon-based android, the drool is non-conductive and somewhat damp-proofing.
Maybe some day I'll be able to write a review of tablets and NOT have all my work destroyed by my computer. I've wrote a review up twice now only to have my comp devour it in a needed reload or such - even when it was backed up it devoured the file. I'm beginning to think my comp hates the idea of tablets. Will say, though, CB if you're getting ImagineFx, they do tablet reviews off and on in the mag...at least it gives you some ideas...
That's alright DJ. My Skinning is pretty much on an indefinite hiatus, my daughter is taking a break from her art to focus on school, and my niece has been having issues with her laptop for quite a while now (Which I just found out about Friday night).
I'll try to get something together by summer, CB, that way they can have all that vacay time to look over things. If my comp behaves...<breaks out the cat-o-nine-tails and disciplines his computer>
You know..I really have to get the rest of this piece about tablets someday.....
Well, all that so-called "real life" stuff gets in the way.
...And the fact the manufactorers keep rushing out new stuff every month...but yeah...real life blows...
Quote from: Deaths Jester on September 13, 2018, 01:59:20 AM
...And the fact the manufactorers keep rushing out new stuff every month...but yeah...real life blows...
Yes...Yes, it does.