I just watched through all of them so just to throw out some opinions on them.Son of Batman,WAR and Throne of Atlantis are already commented upon extensivly,so im gonna skip them.All of them have awessome cast,just to clear that out.Most actors from DCAU reprise their roles.Nathan Filion as Hal Jordan(Sheldon would be happy),and Neil Patrick Harris as Flash were absolutly brilliant.
-Wonder woman- I really dont like sitting through origin stories I already know too well.And it recycles the Hades arc from JL,but with Ares in his place.Really nothing new for me here. :(
-Batman: Assault on Arkham-More like Deadshot,The Movie.Im not a fan of Arkham games in the first place,so it doesnt sit right with me.King Shark was a nice adition.
-Batman: Year One-Origin story,but handled pretty good.Bryan Cranston is great as Jim Gordon.
-Green Lantern:First Flight-Again,origin story we all know.But more of a police drama with Sinestro and Hal at first.Its okey.
-JL Flashpoint Paradox-By far the BEST of them all.Stellar voice cast,great animation,great story.It has everything. :thumbup:
-JL Crisis on Two earths: It was supposed to be Grand Finale of DCAU,but sadly its a stand alone film.Owlman was a great villan,we tottaly need more of him.Again,good movie.
-JL New Frontier: Reimagining the Justice League in the 50s was brilliant.It was great seeing how the heroes change through the movie.Unfortunatly its only 70 minutes,so there wasnt place for anything more.
-All-Star Superman-Functions great as the final Superman story,but suffers from WAY TOO MANY subplots.Seriously there is enough material for a season of TV here.
-Batman the Dark Knight returns-It was great simply.Great final story for Batman.One of the best Batman adaptations I ever watched.
Spoiler
Also Batman finally kills Joker.
-Batman: Under the Red Hood-Its a masterpiece,quite simply.Jensen Ackles is brilliant as Jason Todd.
-Green Lantern:Emerald Knight-A collection of stories about notable GLs like Abin Sur and Mogo(hehe).Very entertaining.
-JLA Adventures:Trapped in Time-Very childish,bur fun.Loved the Time Trapper.
-Justice League Doom-Not mindblowing,but pretty good.It was nice seeing Malefic.
-Superman/Batman Public Enemies-Probably the weakest of the whole lott.I mean Lex Luthor kisses Amanda Waller,whats with that? :doh:
Toyman was funny,thou...
-Superman/Batman Apocalypse-I liked it,not much to add besides that.
-Superman Unbound-A little different take on Brainiac.Very mediocre IMO.
-Superman vs the Elite-It captures everything I liked about Superman.A does a lott of questioning on his moral choices.Probably my favourite movie here.
-Batman vs Dracula-Kinda nonsensical,but a good movie.
Sorry, but spoilers would have been nice for those who haven't seen these yet.
Oh,now I see one thats problematic,sorry.Im gonna tag it when im on PC.
Done,and done.
I really liked Batman: Dark Knight Returns. I own pt 1 on Bluray. I think it's the only DC animated movie I own that wasn't taped off tv (I should really replace my VHS recording of Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker with a DVD or Blu-Ray one of these days though). I like the movie of DKR a lot more than the comic, which I wasn't really impressed by. The music was epic and Micheal Emerson was a pretty great Joker. Peter Weller as Batman was incredibly hit-or-miss IMO.
Spoiler
I don't see it as Batman killing the Joker. He beats him quite a bit and apparently breaks his neck to paralyses him (I don't think either version of the story makes it clear if that would kill him) and Joker (somehow) snaps his own neck just by turning/twisting/tensing it. Not really Batman's fault IMO.
I saw Son of Batman a while ago and I thought that was decent. While most of the rest of the cast was meh Damion was IMO pretty good. I'm looking forward to the next one with him.
JL Flashpoint Paradox was just ok. I never read the comic but my interest in it was always pretty low.
I'm actually watching JL War right now and it's pretty mediocre. The animation is rather hit-or-miss and the voice acting in general is pretty weak. I agree with anyone who said WW was terrible in the original thread. She didn't sound right for the character at all and the line delivery was pretty weak.
[Edited to add] I will say that I was pleasantly surprised by Alan Tudyk as Superman. He was surprisingly decent. Sounds very similar to Tim Daily and George Newbern from the DCAU though. Hal Jordon was annoying as hell. And he seriously sounded like Glenn Quagmire to me.
That's the main thing that bugs me about some of these movies. The stunt-casting. Ever since Flashpoint, they've all been largely stunt casted to a fault. It's mostly guys from current tv shows who have little to no experience with voice acting. Sure they've done it before (Jensen Ackles as Jason Todd is a good example) but the movies have suffered for it lately IMO. I can't see going back to the DCAU guys (as JL Doom and the Superman/Batman movies did) as anything but an improvement.
Actually,most of the movies have the cast of DCAU reprising their roles.Kevin Conroy is THE Batman for me.I mean,when I read Batmans line,I hear it ih his voice.Same thing for Mark Hamill as Joker. :)
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm strictly talking about the last three Justice League movies and Son of Batman (both of which featured Jason O'Mara as Batman, rather than Conroy or even Bruce Greenwood). The DCAU was a really great set of cartoons and movies, so much so that it casts a long shadow on every last cartoon DC's done since. The generally excellent voice cast it had was very much a part of that. I'm specifically saying I WANT Conroy, et all doing these instead of the guys from Criminal Minds/NCIS/whatever crime show they get some of these guys from. Conroy was in Assault on Arkham, which I appreciate, but he is also in most of the games that movie was tying into.
To give a perfect example of what I'm talking about: Cyborg. One thing I really appreciated about Injustice was they just had Khary Payton from Teen Titans do the voice, just not wacky and hammy like he does in that show, and he sounded great. I'm not opposed to new guys doing the voices (Troy Baker's Joker is fantastic) but they'd have to be better than they've been lately.
I forgot to mention Superman: Doomsday.Didnt like it that much.
DCs next animated movie will be Killing Joke.
http://screenrant.com/batman-killing-joke-animated-movie/ (http://screenrant.com/batman-killing-joke-animated-movie/)
Well...bah, I can't say that interests me too much. I imagine I'm in the minority on that score, though.
I'd love to see them tackle some Satellite Era JLA stories. That's extremely unlikely though, given the focus on the joyless New 52 Universe and major stories like this.
^If you want some fun DC comics I recommend All-star section 8,Bizarro and Bat-Mite.
Killing Joke is in the making for years now.Similar to that,I wonder why they havent adapted Kingdom Come yet?
Quote from: BentonGrey on July 11, 2015, 02:46:28 PM
I'd love to see them tackle some Satellite Era JLA stories.
No offense, but I'd rather not, unless they can give their own spin on them. I binged through all of the classic League comics a year ago -- all the way from the first issue to the beginning of the Detroit era -- and while they usually weren't bad, they were often just kind of mediocre. The problem in the 60's was that there was barely any characterization compared to, say, Avengers, and the problem in the Sattelite Era was that, while the early 70's stuff could be fun, a lot of the stories after that were just sort of 'meh'. And of course, with most characters on the team still having a book or feature of their own, most character development still happened in their own books or features rather than in Justice League itself, to it's detriment. (Though Red Tornado and Zatanna helped to alleviate this somewhat.) Maybe they could do some of the Lein Wein stuff, but other than that, I honestly wouldn't be too interested.
Now if they did Justice League International, that would be a different story...
Quote from: Spade on July 11, 2015, 03:32:54 PM
^If you want some fun DC comics I recommend All-star section 8,Bizarro and Bat-Mite.
Killing Joke is in the making for years now.Similar to that,I wonder why they havent adapted Kingdom Come yet?
I would love to see that story get some love! :wub:
^I know,right? :D
And seeing that a Milestone line is returning with Earth-M,there is probably a good chance for a movie there.
Quote from: kkhohoho on July 11, 2015, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on July 11, 2015, 02:46:28 PM
I'd love to see them tackle some Satellite Era JLA stories.
No offense, but I'd rather not, unless they can give their own spin on them. I binged through all of the classic League comics a year ago -- all the way from the first issue to the beginning of the Detroit era -- and while they usually weren't bad, they were often just kind of mediocre. The problem in the 60's was that there was barely any characterization compared to, say, Avengers, and the problem in the Sattelite Era was that, while the early 70's stuff could be fun, a lot of the stories after that were just sort of 'meh'. And of course, with most characters on the team still having a book or feature of their own, most character development still happened in their own books or features rather than in Justice League itself, to it's detriment. (Though Red Tornado and Zatanna helped to alleviate this somewhat.) Maybe they could do some of the Lein Wein stuff, but other than that, I honestly wouldn't be too interested.
Now if they did Justice League International, that would be a different story...
Kk, put Timm and co. in charge, and of course they'd elevate those stories! That's one of the things about those old Bronze Age JLA tales, they had tons of potential, but they usually weren't fantastic in-and-of themselves, though there are more than a few that are pretty darn good. I suppose what I really want is JLU back. :( Ahh well, c'est la vie.
Good question Spade! Yeah, Kingdom Come is one of the greatest DC stories of all time. It really should get an adaptation.
I'm really not surprised that they are doing Killing Joke. It's long been rumored that Mark Hamill who is using the whole "not doing Joker" thing as a way to play hardball with DC and get them to animate Killing Joke.
Umm, Tomato? That's a MAJOR spoiler for Arkham Knight, a game I've yet to actually play. Please show consideration for other people when posting spoilers, just as you asked when Age of Ultron came out.
Benton, if it's JLA you're interested in, they also announced a new JLA vs. Titans Animated movie, which will apparently be an original story. They're also doing an original story animated Batman movie that's going to introduce Batwoman (ironic, considering the last Batman TAS movie they did was Mystery of the Batwoman, which was loosely based on the comics at best).
Danggit, you are right, edited the post. Sorry about that.
Quote from: spydermann93 on July 11, 2015, 06:23:20 PM
Quote from: Spade on July 11, 2015, 03:32:54 PM
^If you want some fun DC comics I recommend All-star section 8,Bizarro and Bat-Mite.
Killing Joke is in the making for years now.Similar to that,I wonder why they havent adapted Kingdom Come yet?
I would love to see that story get some love! :wub:
Personally, the one story that I would love to see get some love, would be "The Golden Age". Probably one of the best, if not actually the best, Elseworlds Story ever told.
Something I will probably get a lott of hate for,but I would like to see Hush adapted.The story actually feels like it was writen for a movie.There are also City of Crime and Dead Reckoning worth mentioning.Also seeing all the love for Batman,its weird Knightfall was never adapted in any form?
Maybe,somewhat in Arkham Knight.
Quote from: Spade on July 12, 2015, 05:58:13 AM
Something I will probably get a lott of hate for,but I would like to see Hush adapted.The story actually feels like it was writen for a movie.There are also City of Crime and Dead Reckoning worth mentioning.Also seeing all the love for Batman,its weird Knightfall was never adapted in any form?
Maybe,somewhat in Arkham Knight.
I wouldn't mind seeing some of the core elements of Hush adapted. I liked elements of it, and it was written back when Jeph Loeb was still fairly capable. I wouldn't mind seeing adaptions of Long Halloween and Dark Victory either, if not for length.
Quote from: Tomato on July 12, 2015, 03:27:06 AM
Danggit, you are right, edited the post. Sorry about that.
It's all right. We should also keep in mind with the PC version problems, some fans will get to the game later than they normally would.
Spade, I can't speak for anyone else, but I think Hush is a perfectly sound idea for an animated movie. I've always thought of it as a "Batman World Tour" (even the covers show as many Bat-Family members as possible), which has always worked well for video games, and some animated movies. Superman/Batman: Public Enemies is a good example of that, though ironically Under the Red Hood cut out that aspect from the comics, as I understand it (I've not read the comic version myself).
As for Knightfall, one could say it got some nods in The Dark Knight Rises.
In both cases, I'm a big fan of adapting comic material that hasn't made it to movie/tv territory yet, so my non-comics reading friends and relatives IRL can get in on the fun. On a more selfish note, I really would like to see Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain make it into adaptations, since unlike, say, Dickard Grayson, that's material that hasn't been done over and over and they've only made a few cameos in stuff.
Justice League International would be a nice change of pace. It kinda got a nod with the Justice League in Batman: Brave and the Bold.
On the note of Hamill as Joker, 2 things:
1. Some fans have scrutinized the fact that Hamill also played Joker in DC Universe Online, which was getting a Joker themed update at the time. The game is still being updated to this day. I've played it recently, and I can personally say Hamill (and Arleen Sorkin as Harley Quinn) are in it for the whole thing, appearing in main story missions, optional content, and collectable audio logs. The thing is, I don't think anyone knows when all that was
recorded. (Sorkin as Harley is an interesting hiccup - Tara Strong took over the role starting with Batman: Arkham City, and usually plays her in everything).
2. It's also possible DC learned of Troy Baker's awesome con panel reading of the Joker's monologue from the Killing Joke, and said "Let's greenlight this b___". In that case, as with Assault on Arkham, Baker might be playing Joker in it. Which I'd fine with. He's been a fantastic replacement for Hamill.
[Edit] I still want my animated movie of Forever Ever with Bryan Cranston as Lex Luthor though.
Sad thing is, I've BEEN making sure not to let that slip in the Arkham thread, I just posted it here without thinking.
And I for one would LOVE forever evil, though I worry it's a bit too close to DC's last evil universe one, Crisis on Two Earths.
Quote from: Tomato on July 12, 2015, 03:56:58 PM
Sad thing is, I've BEEN making sure not to let that slip in the Arkham thread, I just posted it here without thinking.
I noticed, and I appreciate that.
In my mind, the Forever Evil adaptation would be a loose adaptation anyway, similar to Justice League: Doom. But you're right, it's very similar, with Luthor and the Crime Syndicate in major roles. One way to get around this would be to change the villains to someone else (like Justice League Doom did with Vandal Savage).
Oh wow, this one will be really tricky to adapt. Really interested in seeing how they replicate Brian Bolland's art and what are they gonna do with the ending.
^ Honestly, after the way they did the art in the Dark Knight Returns animated movies (which is to say, they kept the bulky Miller style but took out all of the messy inconsistent "squiggly line cartoon character" looking stuff. In short, it looked great), which was one of if not my major sticking point with the comic, I'm sure it'll do fine.
So I saw this today: It's being reported that Hamill will indeed do Killing Joke, and has already recorded his lines. (http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/07/28/mark-hamill-reportedly-voicing-the-joker-in-the-killing-joke-animated-movie)
Now first off: SPOILER ALERT. Some of the articles reporting this (not the one I linked to) spoil the Arkham Knight videogame. Fair warning.
People are saying that Conroy's gotta be in there, and yeah, I say that's a given. They're also talking whether it'll be toned down. I think that'll be the most interesting part of this whole enterprise. DC's done a lot more violence in their DVD movies in recent years but the creepy sex stuff in it might be too much. Honestly if they toned that down but nailed the rest of the story I'd be fine with because it's all the other stuff (the stuff that's made into the movies and video games and such) that I love from it.
What was the creepy sex part? The Joker shot her, took off her clothes and took pictures of her that he later on showed Jim to drive him crazy. If you read the comics, there were no nudity, the most you saw was a cheek or 2. It kind of annoys me that people took it further than what actually happen. The Joker did not have his way with her, he just took pics, that's all. I don't think DC needs to tone it down, just put a PG13 label on it.
Alan Moore actually had to explain that Joker didnt defile Barbara,so there is that.
Ofc,that being a story by Alan Moore,cant blame people for being confused.
Just an FYI, here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa0R_2K9iec&fmt=18) an example of what Mark Hamill's 'Killing Joke' Joker might sound like, and if it turns out anything like this, then DC's got my money.
Quote from: kkhohoho on July 28, 2015, 01:58:02 PM
Just an FYI, here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa0R_2K9iec&fmt=18) an example of what Mark Hamill's 'Killing Joke' Joker might sound like, and if it turns out anything like this, then DC's got my money.
That was so creepy and yet, he makes a good point. I love it.
Quote from: JeyNyce on July 28, 2015, 01:05:31 PM
What was the creepy sex part? The Joker shot her, took off her clothes and took pictures of her that he later on showed Jim to drive him crazy. If you read the comics, there were no nudity, the most you saw was a cheek or 2. It kind of annoys me that people took it further than what actually happen. The Joker did not have his way with her, he just took pics, that's all. I don't think DC needs to tone it down, just put a PG13 label on it.
Fair warning I'm posting this really tired and I cut out some stuff that I can always chime in on again later if this thread takes off:
I could have phrased that better. And just for the record, I both have read and own the comic.
I always thought Gordon's captivity had a BDSM theme to it myself, and I mistakenly remembered the Joker's minions being in gimp costumes, so that one's on me. You would be mistaken about the nudity. It shows Barbara's nipples when Joker is showing the naked photos. I literally just checked my copy of the HC to confirm these (for the record, I own the recolored version. This might make me a traitor). I should also point out that the comic is labeled "Suggested for Mature Readers" which usually equates to an R-rating (though animated features with comparable content do often get a PG-13, so you're not wrong there)
I think Warner Bros might have issues putting that out on a dvd that's going to sit on stores next to stuff for the younger set. Especially when DC recently recalled a Batgirl variant cover that simply
alluded to the events of TKJ, after a significant backlash (including from the book's own writer).
Really though, the treatment of Babs in TKJ is really frigging sexist. And as the book was made almost 30 years ago, DC/WB might feel their animated movie made in 2015 for the mass market might bear to be a little more progressive. Heck, considering how loose most of these films have been (Year One and KNR are definitely some of the the most faithful), Babs might not even factor in at all.
Actually another thing about TKJ is it's fairy short, especially compared to other storylines they've adapted, and doesn't have much action. An animated movie would probably have to expand it just to fit a proper runtime and feel like a movie.
Spoilers for the Batman Arkham Knight videogame:
Spoiler
There's a scene in Arkham Knight that directly homages the scene in the Killing Joke where Barbara is shot by Joker, wearing his tropical outfit. In this version, an M rated game to boot, the Joker doesn't strip Barbara. I don't think it's even implied it happened offscreen. This says to me that between WB who published the game, and Rocksteady, the developers, noone was comfortable keeping that in. I don't personally think it's a necessary story point anyway, since you already have Barbara shot and crippled for life.
This makes me think WB doesn't really want that aspect spread out to the other mediums and the wider audience that comes with it.
The game's also gotten criticized for its female characters being damsels in distress and dying over the course of the story. It might not be a terrible idea to try harder in future products.
^ Pretty good, but the real Hamill would be way better. The Troy Baker reading was awesome on its own.
If it's really Hamill, and they do a good job on it, yeah, DC's got my money. Even though I harp on the use of Barbara, I actually really do love the Killing Joke, I think it's the definitive Joker story story (which is way Batman 89, Dark Knight, and the last three Arkham games have cherry picked the best bits from it). I really would love to see Hamill nail that material.
Oh, and for goodness sake please cast a good Jim Gordon for this.
QuoteAlan Moore actually had to explain that Joker didnt defile Barbara,so there is that.
Ofc,that being a story by Alan Moore,cant blame people for being confused.
Well, Watchmen had a sexual assault in it, which did make it into the movie. Even Moore has said he went too dark with Killing Joke. I think between the Arkham series, the Dark Knight, and the new Jared Leto version, the public view of the character is a lot closer to that now though.
Yes,the scene from Watchman...There is also a story in Swamp Thing,where the title character is "attacked" by a sentient satellite.Its even weirder then it sounds if you haven't read it.
And you could interpret that scene in Killing Joke in different ways.Seriously,there is a reason Alan Moore had to explain it.
IMO,I think Dennis O'Neil did the best job at writing Joker."What,haven't you ever seen a comic strip?" :lol:
Which kinda reminds me,WAY too much for one movie I know,but No Mans Land?Anyone? ;)
Eh. haven't really read No Man's Land (partly because it was out of print for several years) but a simplified, shorter version could work. It's also more recently played out material in Dark Knight Rises and Arkham City. And of course, it would finally give them an excuse to adapt Cassandra Cain. ;) Actually, the only part of that story I've read was in Azreal and Cass was in those issues.
While I have a lot of respect for Denny O'Neal as a Batman writer and editor (I'm of the opinion that under his editing the Batman books in the 90s were surprisingly good. Chuck Dixon was the man on Robin and Nightwing), I don't think I've actually ever read a Denny O'neal story with Joker in it. Now I'm kinda curious.
In a nutshell,O'neil actually strikes a balance between monster and the clown.Joker is still a maniac,but hes actually funny for most of the time.
Actually,I belive DC is reprinting Legacy and No Mans Land sometimes soon.And Arkham Knight gave them a reason to collect Azrael v1 finnaly.
Yes, I didn't mention that, but I was aware that No Man's Land and Azreal were being reprinted.
I think this one's been mentioned, but in any case, here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erIcwVqq8yo) another example of what a Hamill Joker in The Killing Joke may sound like, courtesy of Troy Baker. His performance is almost entirely based off of Hamill's take on the role, though it's just a tad more subtle and menacing.
Batman Unlimited:Monster Mayhem was just kinda...meh.
Quote from: Tomato on July 12, 2015, 06:40:48 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing adaptions of Long Halloween and Dark Victory either, if not for length.
In this era of Netflix/Amazon Prime/etc. - DC should adapt these as a binge watching mini-series. Perhaps Byrne's Man of Steel mixed with Man for All Seasons (which would bring the series up to 10 episodes), O'Neil Adams Batman (perhaps modifying the first Ras Al Ghul arc as a framing device), Englehart/Rogers Batman (from Detective Comics), the first Moore Swamp Thing Arc, and Davis' Nail/Another Nail series would be others that I would love to see. A great way to promote Suicide Squad as a film franchise would be an ongoing, binge-able adaptation of Ostrander's Suicide Squad (it would also promote views of the Killing Joke, as Oracle was created in Suicide Squad). Actually I would watch a faithful adaptation of pretty much any series Ostrander wrote for DC.
Seeing that Snyder is all the rage,might as well adapt Black Mirror.
Saga of Swamp Thing would be a bit hard to translate to screens,but I would love to see that.
And,heck,why not an Authority adaptation?
I have to get this off my chest, so bare with me:
People have compared Marvel movies with DC movies and complained that Marvel did their movies better than DC. I have also heard that DC is copying Marvel by making separate heroes films and doing one big one at the end. While Marvel may have hit the target by doing this, DC is not copying them, DC done it first before Marvel. How? you asked? Just look at Batman: TAS and the see how it became a whole (Timm)universe within DC animation.
Thank you for reading, now back to the show!
Its hard to compare universes since there is only 1 movie in DCCU.And Valiant has addopted the same formula with their Cinematic Universe.
I cant pick a storyline that would be good for a movie,but Sandman.Something can definitly be made there.It would be cool to see some Vertigo animated films.
Killing Joke will have an additional 15 minutes added to the story.Kind of a prologue,I think.
Another massive arc that deserves a movie: Sub Diego.It can be done.
I would love to see a Sub Diego film, but the trouble is that it never really got a satisfying conclusion because of DC stupidity, endless events, and unstable creative teams.
Yeah,Infinite Crisis screwed up pretty much everyone.But a movie could have a different ending ofc.Or just an ending.
No better place to mention this.Tom Hardy is working on a new DC project that isnt a movie or a TV show,and is kinda like Transmetropolitan.
True Spade. If I had more faith in the folks behind these movies, I could get pretty excited about that prospect. It would be a perfect opportunity to fix that series's problems.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/MintyNewsAndReviews/news/?a=123869&utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_647087 (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/MintyNewsAndReviews/news/?a=123869&utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_647087)
Still not a better place to mention it so: Tom Hardys new DC project is 100 Bullets.
(http://pre11.deviantart.net/32eb/th/pre/i/2012/148/c/c/batman_the_animated_series__the_killing_joke_by_jackskelling10-d51f00q.jpg)
There is apparently a petition for DC to cancel Killing Joke.Because why would they rehash that story etc,etc...
Yes, because petitions do so much. :rolleyes:
Listen, the real reason DC is doing this is fairly simple (Minor spoilers for Arkham Knight):
Spoiler
Mark Hamill played hardball with DC to get Killing Joke made, and basically refused to play the character again until he got what he wanted. Since they kinda needed Hamill's Joker for Arkham Knight's story, they capitulated and...
...and as far as DC is concerned, no one could buy the Killing Joke and the money they put into it would still be worth it. Besides, at this point, they've already started production, so it would take a major, MAJOR backlash against the film to cause them to reconsider at this point, and people are so excited for more Mark Hamill that's not going to happen. So yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about any petitions or anything putting a stop to the film.
Cant say I was really worried.If online petitions did anything we wouldnt have Ben Afleck as Batman.And Hard Time would be a TV show.Yet here we are.
(http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jla/c01.jpg)
New Justice League animated series confirmed.Rumored title is Justice League: Action.
Color me curious about this. From what (very) little we can tell from the single piece of promo art we've seen, it looks like it is at least somewhat in the style of Batman: The Brave and the Bold.
http://firestormfan.com/2015/09/23/jlaction/
In general, I'm interested in JLA shows, so here's hoping this one is a good one. I could watch something in the B&B line centered around the League (especially if they kept up the mostly good treatment of Aquaman), but I would, of course, prefer something closer to the Timm-verse. Unfortunately, the latter seems extremely unlikely.
2 new movies in 2016:
Batman: Bad Blood
Justice League vs Titans
Batman: Bad Blood reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maX-ObiJB3o
HISHE, I love you :wub:
Killing gets the ok to be R rated
http://batman-news.com/2015/10/09/batman-the-killing-joke-rated-r/
That doesn't mean that it will be, but they got the OK
www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/134193-kevin-conroy-mark-hamill-tease-reprising-iconic-roles-in-batman-the-killing-joke-animated-movie.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/134193-kevin-conroy-mark-hamill-tease-reprising-iconic-roles-in-batman-the-killing-joke-animated-movie.html)
He is the vengence,he is the night,he is Batman! :D
Bad Blood was,idk,like they fused 2-3 movies together.Its all style,no substance.And despite the fact that Batman doesnt kill,EVERY villain dies,rather messy.Is Spectre following Bat-family around just to troll them?
Bad Blood was ok. I like how they did Batwoman and the ending was cool, which means there's going to be another Bat movie coming out soon.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/exclusive-kevin-conroy-mark-hamill-star-batman-killing-joke (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/exclusive-kevin-conroy-mark-hamill-star-batman-killing-joke)
Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill confirmed for Killing joke.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/first-look-still-from-batman-the-killing-joke-animated-movie?utm_campaign=first-look-still-from-batman-the-killing-joke-animated-movie&utm_medium=internal_links&utm_source=breaking_banner (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/first-look-still-from-batman-the-killing-joke-animated-movie?utm_campaign=first-look-still-from-batman-the-killing-joke-animated-movie&utm_medium=internal_links&utm_source=breaking_banner)
First image from the movie.
I just saw Justice League vs Teen Titans.It was a joyless experience. <_<
How surprising. :( I just got the Brave and Bold dvds. I think I'm going to watch some of them tonight to cheer myself up.
I just finish watching Justice League vs Teen Titans and it wasn't all that. Since when did Starfire become Sailor Moon??? The only good/ funny part was the quick talk between Supes & Flash
This just make me wish they bring back Young Justice
http://comicbook.com/2016/06/07/justice-league-dark-revealed-to-be-next-dc-animated-movie/ (http://comicbook.com/2016/06/07/justice-league-dark-revealed-to-be-next-dc-animated-movie/)
After the Killing Joke,we have Justice League Dark.I hope this one wont suck.
Just got my Ticket for the July 25th theatrical showing of "The Killing Joke". I have to admit, I'm quite excited about this.
Mark Hamill will sing a song during the Killing Joker movie. (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/mark-hamill-will-lend-his-voice-to-batman-the-killing-jokes-soundtrack)
Awesome.
And that song killed the mood a bit.Voice acting was great as expected.Animation was passable,lets say.
First half an hour is an overly long intro concerning Batgirl chasing some mobster.Which should give some depth to Barbara.but actually makes her seem a bit unbalanced.Rest of the movie was surprisingly faithful to the source material and I cant really complain about anything there.Funny thing is that credits read "based on a graphic novel illustrated by Brian Bolland" with no mention of who wrote the GN in question.
And the elephant in the room-
Spoiler
Batman and Batgirl had sex.Angsty rooftop sex.
Why was that added?Whats the point?Daddy issues?
Quote from: Spade on July 23, 2016, 08:29:00 AM
And that song killed the mood a bit.Voice acting was great as expected.Animation was passable,lets say.
First half an hour is an overly long intro concerning Batgirl chasing some mobster.Which should give some depth to Barbara.but actually makes her seem a bit unbalanced.Rest of the movie was surprisingly faithful to the source material and I cant really complain about anything there.Funny thing is that credits read "based on a graphic novel illustrated by Brian Bolland" with no mention of who wrote the GN in question.
And the elephant in the room-Spoiler
Batman and Batgirl had sex.Angsty rooftop sex.
Why was that added?Whats the point?Daddy issues?
I'm pretty sure Alan Moore told DC to take his name of all the adaptations of everything he wrote after the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie. He's not credited on the movie versions of V for Vendetta or Watchmen either.
A reminder that James Robinson was the writer of LoEG movie,so we cant really Moore for wanting to distance from that.
Can really say that I paid attention to credits in Watchmen.I shoud recheck that.
Teen Titans, Batman and Harley Quinn animated films coming (http://www.superherohype.com/news/378943-teen-titans-batman-and-harley-quinn-animated-films-coming)
Teen Titans: The Judas Contract animated film is back!
To return to Killing Joke,problem is that is basicly two movies in one.A good adaptation of the actual story,and a prequel thats on pair with "Damien trilogy" of New52 animated movies.
I hope they Rebirth the movies soon.
Quote from: Spade on July 28, 2016, 10:44:23 AM
To return to Killing Joke,problem is that is basicly two movies in one.A good adaptation of the actual story,and a prequel thats on pair with "Damien trilogy" of New52 animated movies.
Pretty much. The Killing Joke portion of the movie is the perfect adaptation of the source material. The "controversial" part of the prequel is not as bad as some people online made it out to be, but it was weird nevertheless and was an uneccesary addition to the plot IMO.
A smirking gargoyle didnt really help that moment.
Irony being,thats the scene that got the movie R-rating.And its not even in the comic.
In a perfect world those 30 minutes would have been spent on Joker,since Mark Hammil was one of the main draws for the movie.And we would get a separate Batgirl movie that does more justice to the character.But...
So I watched it. It was alright, I enjoyed it. The Batgirl stuff didn't really bother me. I appreciated that they tried to make it more her story, even if for the first 30 minutes I kinda forgot what movie I was watching. And yes, I laughed when it showed the gargoyle.
I complained earlier about the art style when the trailer came out but when I watched the movie I was used to it so it didn't bother me.
The voice cast was quite good, but that's what I was expecting. I especially liked hearing Hamill do the flashbacks. I'm glad Gordon didn't sound overly gruff like he does in the Arkham games. He sounded more like he did in Batman TAS. Bullock's voice actor was also decent, as was Alfred.
I especially liked the bit at the end:
Spoiler
The mid credits scene where Barbara becomes Oracle. Nice touch there.
I'm genuinely curious what Batman animated movie we'll see next, not counting the Harley Quinn one.
(http://i.imgur.com/T5D3c45.png)
Bruce,you the only one who understands me.
I always enjoyed that bit. :)
Yeah, I'm not really interested in any of the stuff they're doing at the moment. I hope they'll put out some stuff that is more FUN soon. I'd love to see an Aquaman movie that was actually, you know, good.
Next up are 2 Batman movies and Justice League Dark.But dont worry,Batman will be showing up there.I mean,we all like Batman,but give it a little rest.
Well,there was Throne of Atlantis.Which I found somewhat mediocre.
BTW,oddly enough,the competition pretty much gave up on animated movies. :rolleyes:
Like I said, I'd like to see a GOOD Aquaman movie, and Throne of Atlantis was definitely not that. :(
At least it wasnt about Batman.
But its a the N52 animated movie,so there were some familiar problems.
Quote from: Spade on August 04, 2016, 02:47:00 PM
Next up are 2 Batman movies and Justice League Dark.But dont worry,Batman will be showing up there.I mean,we all like Batman,but give it a little rest.
Hold on,
two Batman movies? I've read it's Justice League Dark, "Batman and Harley Quinn" (which I could have sworn used to be called "Joker and Harley Quinn") and Teen Titans: The Judas Contract. What's the other Batman movie? Lego Batman?
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/08/17/batman-adam-west-burt-ward-julie-newmar-animated?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter (http://www.ew.com/article/2016/08/17/batman-adam-west-burt-ward-julie-newmar-animated?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter)
Told ya there will be another Batman movie. :)
Holy Retro Action Spade, you beat me to it (http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-cast-of-batman-66-returns-for-a-new-animated-movie-1785400516).
Totally worth it for the trailer death trap. :)
Quote from: Glitch Girl on August 17, 2016, 04:13:59 PM
Holy Retro Action Spade, you beat me to it (http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-cast-of-batman-66-returns-for-a-new-animated-movie-1785400516).
Totally worth it for the trailer death trap. :)
Oh boy! Batman Verses The Three or Four Villains of Doom all over again...
Well, I wasn't expecting that. :blink: That's actually kinda awesome.
Doing a little google-fu revealed that movie's existence was announced a year ago. Guess I must have missed it, or otherwise forgotten it.
Okay...that's a little bit awesome.
Nobody posted it,so here is the trailer for Justice League Dark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHO9H8ePHFU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHO9H8ePHFU)
It looks interesting.
Hmm, I didn't even know they were making that. It does indeed look interesting, but I have to say: what the heck does Batman bring to the table in this magical grudge match between mystic powered beings? Ha, I'm guessing they just stuck him in because, heaven forbid you make a DC movie without Batman, but it seems a really odd choice.
Yet, a movie about Etrigan, Zatanna, and other DC mystics? Color me interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSYZekLljpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSYZekLljpg)
Killing Joke honest trailer! :)
Or more accurately: Batgirl: Sex and Gotham City(followed by Killing Joke).
Man, that is absolutely hilarious! Also, I don't really care for the Killing Joke in the first place, so I wasn't very interested in this, but now? Wow, yeah, I'll skip it. I HATE the whole Batman/Batgirl relationship thing. That's one of the only places where Bruce Timm is just completely and totally off, and his defense of that move in the way less awesome Animated Series return is just indicative of a bad storyteller, which we know he isn't. People say, 'that's terrible, that's wrong!' and he says, 'yeah, that's why we did it!' Transgression for the sake of transgression is pointless and stupid.
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 31, 2016, 11:32:11 PM
I don't really care for the Killing Joke in the first place--
BURN THE HERETIC! :angry:
(JK, in case it wasn't obvious. :P)
Good news is,Batgirl part can be skipped due to wonders of scene selection.So home edition has that advantage.
I think this was more Azzarelos fault then Timms.
https://youtu.be/MbA8TKIeJ7g (https://youtu.be/MbA8TKIeJ7g)
Justice League Dark rate R for "some disturbing violence". Again,they push the rating for all the wrong reasons...
There are still the N52 costumes and some not-so-great voice acting,but good news is...Martian Manhunter,Hawkman and John Stewart.
And Destiny of The Endless.Thats a bit odd.
Have you seen the Batman and Harley Quinn yet? I saw it yesterday and liked it, although I ve heard a lot of bad comments about it in regards of its humor,its ending(though no spoilers here)and generally bad comparisons with other batman animated movies/the batman tas episodes,some compare it with the adam wests batman animations in regards of campy-ness,hence disrespectful of the batman tas.
Imo these comparisons are wrong because this film is supposed to be a comedy,hence you cant expect it to follow the standard superhero adventure route, at least I didnt. I find it funny while paying the respect you d expect from bruce timm to the characters,and the btas universe in general,throwing lots of nods/easter eggs in the road for fans of btas to catch.
The act is good from everyone including melissa rauch, whose sightly irritating voice is in line with the character,and kevin conroy gives as always topnotch batman portrayal without having to make him out of character funny cause of the comedic filter of the movie.In fact the total contrast of the seriousness in conroys batman is with the comedy elements is what makes it funny.
Its the same batman just in a comedic situation as conroy said himself. I think its humor has something of a different era of comedy, kinda gives me a bit of leslie nielsen feel to it.
It has great fluid animation,some well animated choreographed battles unlike any other seen in the dcau/timmverse imo.
In regards of style it goes with the dark deco new batman adventures style,only taking the best of the style of batman tas like the batmobile, and a bit better character modeling regarding proportions,especially in poison ivy's case.
Overall I think its a nice addition to the dcau/timmverse, had a fun watching it, and I d like to see what you guys think of it(also if anyone wants to see it he can pm me so I can share)
If your asking me,no I havent.Come to think of it,Killing Joke was the last one I watched.That killed any good will for the rest.
I tried to watch killing joke when it came out but I ultimately stopped it. I will see it someday when I will find the strength ,though batman and harley quinn has nothing to do with it,if you like batman tas/tnba(especially the more funny episodes) I recommend you should see it.
Im waiting for them to Rebirth their animated universe.Or figure out they have other characters then Batman.
Well unfortunately, I read a few years ago that DC felt Green Lantern's animated movies (First Flight and Emerald Knights, the latter of which I still haven't seen) and Wonder Woman (which I also haven't watched yet; it's on Canadian Netflix so I'll likely watch it at some point) didn't sell enough, so they opted to just make Justice League, Batman and now Teen Titans movies. It's been a long while since there's been a Superman animated movie but I'll get to that in a bit.
I'm sure I'll watch Batman and Harley Quinn sometime. It'll either be as a digital rental, when it airs on Canadian TV or when it arrives on Netflix, I'm not sure which. I'm not in a hurry at the moment to watch it.
On the topic of DC Animated movies, the trailer for Batman vs. Two Face (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx5UCaNlkQI) came out recently.
Looks fun. I've always wondered what Shatner's Two Face would sound like, and it looks like Harvey and Two Face will have two different voices from Shatner, with Two-Face having a gruffer voice. Neat, wasn't quite expecting that. We also see the origin of Two Face in this iteration of Batman, which I also wasn't expecting. Hugo Strange and Harley Quinn (as Dr. Harleen Quinzel) are also in this. The movie will apparently be released Oct. 17.
In addition, DC recently announced some new upcoming animated movies. There's going to be a new Suicide Squad animated movie, and a new animated movie based on The Death of Superman and the Reign of the Superman. Apparently it will be a two-parter and we will indeed see Steel, Cyborg Superman and the Eradicator. That could be potentially interesting. I'll have to wait for more intel.
Emerald Knights was actually quite good. It's a series of smaller stories rather than a typical movie, but I like it. Also it adapts Mogo Doesn't Socialize, which is awesome.
In regards to Batman and Harley Quinn (I haven't seen it yet), would it be appropriate for Children (In my case, a 7 yr old) to watch?
I am not sure if I recommend it Cyber,for a 7year old, it has a pg13 some cursing and a ..middle..heres the official pg ratings reasons
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6556890/parentalguide?ref_=tt_stry_pg#certification
"intimate" action is also heavily implied(although not seen) but I feel obligated to mention that before thats implied theres that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xclKQL-SGMQ
and after thats implied theres this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrerfPyKjEE after deciding on these I think you re ready to go.
Overall if you would allow your kid to see films like ghost busters or the naked gun(I did about that time) you should be fine with this one
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on August 17, 2017, 10:40:53 PM
Emerald Knights was actually quite good. It's a series of smaller stories rather than a typical movie, but I like it. Also it adapts Mogo Doesn't Socialize, which is awesome.
Yeah, that's what I heard. I actually heard someone just a few days ago online say it was better than First Flight, and I really enjoyed First Flight. I'll have to watch that one day.
I second the vote on Emerald Knights.
Emerald Knights was ok. I personally preferred First Flight, mostly because I feel it's the way DC SHOULD have done the live action film... self contained, almost completely in space, etc. Plus a couple of the stories in Emerald Knights are ripped from the comics... which is normally a good thing, but I found myself not as invested in those because they were just condensed versions of stories I felt the comics presented better.
Plus... for all the hype Nathan Fillion had garnered for that role, this was his first real voice acting job... and it kinda shows. He's not BAD, but he suffers from a bit of what I call "celebrity-itis" where someone who's used to live action is put into a voice booth. They know how to act, but they don't have mastery of their vocal range in the same way someone who's done a ton of voice work does.
You shold have seen Richard Armitage mumble thru 90% of Castlevania.But who could blame him,really?
"He's not BAD, but he suffers from a bit of what I call "celebrity-itis" where someone who's used to live action is put into a voice booth. They know how to act, but they don't have mastery of their vocal range in the same way someone who's done a ton of voice work does." Thats exactly how I felt seeing Kit Haringhton in how to train your dragon, celebrity-itis!(perhaps shoud called celebr-itis? :cool: ) but I think thats not the case for melissa rauch in harleys role. Perhaps from all the exercise voice acting in big bang theory..
Much appreciated on the the advice about Batman and Harley Quinn, Red. I Think I'll hold off on it until he's a bit more mature.
In a case of "I said a lot of stupid things in the past" I have to correct myself- upon re-watch,I hated Superman Vs Elite.
For example,All-Star Superman reinforces Superman's legend and shows why hes so great,this movie is just a mean spirited attack on a comic that sold better.You all heard how The Authority was revolutionary and influential,so Im not going to repeat all that.So somebody felt a need to pit Superman against some straw clones.And they are straw-men of the highest order.At one point Superman explains:
-You cant just go around bombing anyone you don't like.( incredibly obvious setup)
To which Manchester Black retorts:
-Why not,your government does that.
Really?You realize Superman doesn't create American foreign policy?How is he responsible there? :huh:
And so they are defeated once Superman fakes going crazier,beats them up and proves they are wrong.You would think that him using their own medicine against the Elite would kinda proved their point*,but no,apparently this proves Superman is right.
*Im not all that sure what their point (other then being straw-clones of Authority) or plan.No way they could have taken over the world,right?This is the DCU after all.
Harry, I strongly disagree. I quite like that movie, and I think it totally works. The government comment is a classic example of moral equivalency. I.E., 'they do it, so why don't we?' It's an example of the fuzzy logic and bad philosophy that defines the position of the Elite, a moral relativism that contrasts very fittingly with Supes' objective based morality.
The ending fits because Superman makes them see things from the perspective of the helpless; he turns the tables on them. They are fine with the strong making their own rules because they are the strongest, but he shows them what it is like to be on the receiving end, what can happen when the stops are removed and someone more powerful than you feels that you need to be destroyed. This, ideally, forces them to confront the reality of their self-serving ideology. At the least, it teaches them not to screw with Superman, while still obeying his code. This act also has a similar effect on the public, the mob that wanted violence, wanted blood. The intensity of the object lesson embodied in the final battle illustrates to them that violence is always a negative, even when it is necessary, and unrestrained violence is a truly frightening thing.
As always, the Man of Steel finds the tertium quid, the third way, solving problems and saving lives without actually descending to their level.
As for resemblances to The Authority, I can't really speak to that, as I don't really know those characters. This movie was based on "What's so Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?" from Action Comics #775. The comic and the movie that followed it are a response to what The Authority represents, the conflation of cynicism with maturity and clarity. And the point they make is entirely valid, for whatever the quality of the latter may be.
Im aware of the source material,but I already said my piece there.There was also a short lived Justice League Elite,proving you cant have your cake and eat it too. :rolleyes:
For example,in Kingdom Come,resident anti-heroes point out villains are a lot worse today then in Supermans time,and thats kind of a valid point.Elite is never that logical.Almost all of their questions could be answered with: Its not Supermans job.
So really,thats my problem here,its not about proping Supes,its about tearing down The Authority.Its statement isnt that Superman is great,its that Authority sucks.
Its Kelly taking a urine at a better selling comic.Nothing wrong with that outright,but it didnt need a movie.
Again,there is Kingdom Come,which handles the theme much better.Why not make a Kingdom Come movie?Just dont give it a Killing Joke treatment.
I think you're far too myopic in your view of this movie, my friend, limiting your appreciation. You're letting an incident in its origin define it for you. I don't have the associations with The Authority, so such concerns never entered in to my assessment. Clearly there is more there than taking a shot at a more successful book, as an outsider to that context can still appreciate the film.
In terms of the statement of the movie, there is indeed a good deal more than 'the Authority sucks.' They establish Superman's ethical dilemma pretty effectively. What do you do with destructive monsters like the Atomic Skull? With the dictators and others who endanger innocents and who won't stop at a slap on the wrist? Is what Superman does enough? These are legitimate questions, aside from any outside context, and they do indeed impact on how the Man of Steel does his 'job.' Is it his responsibility if he had the power to destroy a threat, chose not to, and it came back and killed people? There is a school of thought that would answer 'yes.' The scene with the Skull is particularly challenging on that front. And the final confrontation reveals the flaws in that philosophy, and it also reveals the value of the traditional super-heroic ethos, as Superman finds the third way, restoring hope from fear. This isn't as much about The Authority, specifically, as it is about comics at large and the concept of heroism, a focus on the true heroism, selfless, sacrificial heroism, rather than simple authoritarianism. It's point is valid and valuable in our cynical age.
Comparing it to Kingdom Come is something of a non-sequitur, because they say rather different things. Kingdom Come wrestles with concepts of heroism, but it provides no real answers, other than affirming the value of selfless sacrifice in CM's final gesture. As for an adaptation of that film, I'd love it...but you could never get an art style that would do it justice, and, as you say, it could easily be handled terribly. :P
Most of what I would normally say, Benton has already said, and far better than I would. I will only add that this does not come across as just a response to Authority, but to it and many modern ultra violent superhero comics in general. It's an argument for why the old fashioned stuff like Superman still works, even in a modern era.
Thanks Cat! :D Well and succinctly said, yourself!
I'd like to weigh in! :thumbup:
[EDIT: Whoa, I had a LOT of typos to fix.]
I'll start with a quick and easy one.
Quote from: Tomato on August 18, 2017, 04:50:23 PM
Emerald Knights was ok. I personally preferred First Flight, mostly because I feel it's the way DC SHOULD have done the live action film... self contained, almost completely in space, etc. Plus a couple of the stories in Emerald Knights are ripped from the comics... which is normally a good thing, but I found myself not as invested in those because they were just condensed versions of stories I felt the comics presented better.
That's not terribly surprising. I know it's an anthology and that's difficult to make feel narrative coherent and satisfying under the best of circumstances. There's also the fact that Green Lantern and the reason anyone (who's not still hung up about Kyle getting sidelined for Hal because Muh Silver Age Nostalgia, of course) gives a crap about Green Lantern these days is Geoff Johns and co have build up this sprawling ambitious mythology that's impressive in its scope and reach and draws heavily from the extended history of that property and a done-in-animated movie just isn't going to capture that in any meaningful way (see also: Death of Superman, which we'll be seeing DC take another shot at in the near future). First Flight actually, IMO did a rather decent job of it, strictly as a Sinestro story, but the extended mythology, while more satisfying to me, and I imagine, quite a few others than the Ryan Reynolds flick, largely amounted to "Hey, Boodika's in this, neat!" This is also an instance where the shocking violent deaths are to the story's benefit, since a big part of the shocking element of it is "Oh, so Sinestro's actually a monster. Ok, then". To do the modern Green Lantern mythos justice in an adaptation, I actually would 100% advocate for the Netflix treatment. You need more room to breathe than a done-in-one movie is going to allow, and Netflix would also lack the content restriction of a cartoon aimed at the kids. The Green Lantern animated series we did get, which I thought was actually pretty darn good when all was said and done, had to rework large chunks of the mythos (not the least of which the Red Lanterns) in order to have a story for the show, in the end it's pretty much its own thing.
Getting back to Emerald Nights. I of course won't know whether I like it or not until I see it, presumably when Netflix gets their act together and puts it up, but you and I have different takes on any number of things so I may have different take on that film as well.
This other comment by you, on the other hand, cannot go unchallenged. :P
QuotePlus... for all the hype Nathan Fillion had garnered for that role, this was his first real voice acting job... and it kinda shows. He's not BAD, but he suffers from a bit of what I call "celebrity-itis" where someone who's used to live action is put into a voice booth. They know how to act, but they don't have mastery of their vocal range in the same way someone who's done a ton of voice work does.
Yeah, I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. Fillion had a notable role prior to that, which I brought up a little while ago on here, which was Vigilante in JLU and I thought did an excellent job voicing him, which was consistent with his later voice work (including Hal) and his live action body of work in general. These days Fillion does voice work so often (including in a Firefly MMO that's probably never going to get released, which is a crying shame because I really really want to play that or at least get to see/hear it) I feel he occupies that Mark Hamill/Alan Tudyk/Kelly Hu/Micheal Dorn/ect area where he IS a voice actor who also happens to be a live action actor too.
Quote from: Red Fisser on August 18, 2017, 06:28:29 PM
"He's not BAD, but he suffers from a bit of what I call "celebrity-itis" where someone who's used to live action is put into a voice booth. They know how to act, but they don't have mastery of their vocal range in the same way someone who's done a ton of voice work does." Thats exactly how I felt seeing Kit Haringhton in how to train your dragon, celebrity-itis!(perhaps shoud called celebr-itis? :cool: ) but I think thats not the case for melissa rauch in harleys role. Perhaps from all the exercise voice acting in big bang theory..
I didn't realize Kit was in that series. I can say however, that Kit was awesome in Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare as the villain. His character was shallow even for a Call of Duty campaign but he chewed the scenery nonetheless, enough so to make his fate at the end of the game fairly satisfying. Pretty good for one of the only genuinely heroic characters in Game of Thrones (well, one of the ones who wasn't killed off in earlier series, of course).
On the topic of Batman & Harley Quinn, I don't think I commented on it here (???) but I did actually watch that clip, and as Alfred says, I ain't touching that one, other than to say, how the heck does poor Nightwing keep finding himself in these situations? I know he's known these days for having a nice backside but geez... So on the topic of the sexuality, I'll I personally
wouldn't recommend that one to the young ones, since the sexuality is pretty damn overt even by DC Animation standards, but DC established somewhere around of the time of Flashpoint that most of these things aren't even remotely for kids anymore so wheteves. On the one hand, this is pretty on par with Assualt on Arkham, whose Harley was also pretty darn overtly sexual, but that was Arkham. I think a big part of the issue is this is, at least superficially if nothing else, based on Batman TAS, but written by modern day Bruce Timm, who, as we've established, apparently, sometime after doing Gods and Monsters, read one Frank Miller comic too many along with a hefty dose of way too much Bruce/Babs fanfic (well, not counting the ones he wrote himself, of course :P).
It's actually pretty funny, considering that JL Gods and Monsters short. And, yeah, FYI, for those who didn't know, there were some web shorts of Justice League: Gods and Monsters, and in the first one, that version of Batman (who is a vampire and basically a serial killer, being voiced by Dexter and all) tracks down that universe's version of Harley Quinn, who is a brutal urine-take of basically every version of Harley since, well, around the time Arkham Asylum came out. Seriously, it's messed up. And he totally admitted that's what he was going for.
Back to Batman and Harley, I haven't seen the film myself, but everything I've seen and heard about it indicates that's it's an odd one. I'm not in a hurry to watch it but I know when I do, it's sure to be an interesting watch. I know it's got an extended fart joke in it, which sounds like just one of the most dreadful things anyone ever thought to put in these things but then again 1. modern day Bruce Timm and 2. I learned just the other day that Amanda Connor and Jimmy Palmiotti run of the Harley comic featured similar toilet humor, which doesn't particularly surprise me, so at least there's precedence for it. I've also heard the ending is just the biggest middle finger to the audience but I've have to see it for myself to see how it plays. I will say, that it features a surprise cameo by Bruce Timm himself as a well-established DC character you really wouldn't expect to see in this particular project (I'm not going to spoil who) that's full of win and seriously one of the funniest flippin' things I've EVER seen put in any DC project (and considering the character in question, that's saying a LOT).
I know a lot of people online absolutely detested the film to no end, which amuses me, and I do understand why, and yaknow, I think we're at the point where Bruce flippin' Timm of all people gets to be listed in the "Fallen Creator" Tvtropes page along with Valve, Bethesda and whoever the hell else just up and went "Oh you think you can flush away all the good will you generated over the years? Hold my beer."
On the topic of Rauch herself, I was actually fairly impressed with her performance for the character based on that clip. it works. When I heard she was cast, and before I saw the clip, I was rolling my eyes along with everyone else. It was a stunt casting through and through and I a lot of other people thought it killed the magic. If Sorkin actually came back to role (presumably because DC/WB gave her a not-insignificant amount of money to do so) I feel that actually would have elevated the project. Lester as Nightwing on the other hand, I don't agree with the people who say he's forgotten how to play the character (he sounded about right in the clip I saw), it's more that I think he was always more suited as Dick as Robin and pretty much all of the later takes on Nightwing (Teen Titans Go Robin not withstanding of course) tended to do a little deeper voiced and little more gruff.
Incidentally, I actually had a much more long-winded passage about Harley Quinn written and I cut it out because really getting into tangent territory and this post is long enough as it is. I saved it though, just in case I get a good opportunity to use it again.
The long and short of is that all things considered, Harley's actually had a pretty awesome history of performances beyond Batman TAS's Arleen Sorkin. Good thing too, considering the character blew up so much after the first Arkham game.
Quote from: HarryTrotter on August 18, 2017, 05:05:08 PM
You shold have seen Richard Armitage mumble thru 90% of Castlevania.But who could blame him,really?
While you and I have discussed Castlevania elsewhere, I could certainly say more on the topic (that warrants its own thread though; I wouldn't want to veer this one too off-topic) so sticking to the voice acting I thought Armitage was fine for the version of the character he was given. Though to be fair, IMO he was vastly eclipsed by James Callis (aka Gaius Frakkin Baltar) as the surprising accurate version of Alucard stealing the show for his 10 minutes of screentime. Part of that was that he really didn't sound like Gaius Baltar so I was impressed by that.
Going back to DC: as HT pointed out much earlier in this thread, the stunt casting is a tried and true tradition in DC animation. I'm glad it happens as that variety does keep things fresh and a lot of actors have gotten to pretty much make the jump to full-on voice actor because someone (Andrea Romano, naturally) had the idea they could play a DC superhero character. The issue I have with the movies since, JL War or so, is the stunt casting prior to that, was, I feel, a lot more inspired previously. Now a lot of it is just stunt casting for the sake of stunt casting. Was Batman Assault on Arkham any better because Matthew Gray Gubler voiced Riddler instead of the Arkham series' Wally Wingert. Did some dullard WB executive honestly think some dude was more likely to buy Assualt on Arkham because a pre-Damien Dark Neal McDonaugh voiced Deadshot instead of Chris Cox (who did a great job voicing another snarky marksman, Hawkeye)?
Finally, on the topic of Superman vs. the Elite:
Quote from: HarryTrotter on September 16, 2017, 03:25:32 PM
In a case of "I said a lot of stupid things in the past" I have to correct myself- upon re-watch,I hated Superman Vs Elite.
For example,All-Star Superman reinforces Superman's legend and shows why hes so great,this movie is just a mean spirited attack on a comic that sold better.You all heard how The Authority was revolutionary and influential,so Im not going to repeat all that.So somebody felt a need to pit Superman against some straw clones.And they are straw-men of the highest order.
Well, I've also watched the movie twice now, and I enjoyed it both times, but it has a lot to do, for me with adjusting expectations and also reexamine things when re watching it (which you clearly did).
The thing about Elite is I always found the concept fascinating well before the film was even announced. The thing is though, Unlike quite a few of these that were direct adaptions where the source material was too long, Elite (in its comic form as "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice And the American Way?", a cumbersome title if ever there was one) was more like the Killing Joke in it was actually a done-in-one story. Initially at least. But it was an extra long issue of the series, so there actually was a fair amount of material the movie had to draw from, and as I understand it, simplify. I've not read the comic myself, but I'd like to one day, and the thing is, I heavily suspect the story actually works a little better in the comic, but the thing about the movie it's a pretty fundamentally interesting story idea but watching it the first I felt like it didn't go far enough to really illustrate what it was trying to say.
Arguably Grant Morrison did a better job with that one line about jetpack gorillas in his JLA Classified, which was of course in reference to Morrison's own Ultra Marine Corp.
Touching on "a comic that sold better". So they wanted to take a down it notch, take a shot at the new hotness, the biggest game in town.
Now, I'm going to take a moment and play devil's advocate for just a sec. Marvel and DC have pulled this particular game a LOT. Squadron Sinister/Supreme, Global Guardians, Lord Havoc and the Exetremist. Hell, comic book Harley Quinn recently did a blatant riff on Dead Pool ("Red Tool") and a few years before that Joe Kelly wrote Batman/Superman and had Wade Wilson himself appear as -naturally- an alternate reality Slade Wilson. It is another time honored tradition, and it's also not the first time the writers took a more cynical look at their stand ins. The Mark Gruenwald Squadron Supreme was basically Justice Lords, Injustice, Stormwatch/Authority, and the Elite before any of them (and for years I thought that was what Watchmen was until I actually read it). Hell, that's not even the last time DC ripped off Authority! A few years later they did the exact same thing with the Ultimates, which was basically "The Authority but this time they're the Avengers" (same artist too)
Quote
At one point Superman explains:
-You cant just go around bombing anyone you don't like.( incredibly obvious setup)
To which Manchester Black retorts:
-Why not,your government does that.
Really?You realize Superman doesn't create American foreign policy?How is he responsible there? :huh:
Well, I think it was less calling Superman out on personal hypocrisy (though Supes, unlike the Elite, does indeed "Respect the Authority") and more just justifying it for themselves because Supes calls them out on it.
QuoteAnd so they are defeated once Superman fakes going crazier,beats them up and proves they are wrong.You would think that him using their own medicine against the Elite would kinda proved their point*,but no,apparently this proves Superman is right.
Your assessment reminds me of a certain infamous episode of Clone Wars that raised a rock solid point (that the show repeatedly reinforced in later storylines, whether intentionally or not) that basically ended with "the good guys win because they have to because they're the good guys" not because it was the natural progression point but because the status quo had to be maintained, and as Channel Awesome reviewers say "Makes it easy!" Someone at on Tvtropes summed it up as:
Clone Trooper: Don't Clone Troopers have rights too? Isn't morally wrong to treat us as disposable people?
Jedi: No. [The End]
Quote*Im not all that sure what their point (other then being straw-clones of Authority) or plan.No way they could have taken over the world,right?This is the DCU after all.
So, once again, this is why I'm curious about the comic version. If it's the comic, that it goes without saying it's the DCU and they'd have to play off that in some meaningful way in order for the story to work (or it's just another one of the depressingly large number of stories from the late 20 or so years that have massive plot holes because the writers just couldn't find a way to make it work. Say, Grant how often is the Fantastic Four out of town?). In that, that hilarious cameo in the Batman and Harley Quinn movie that I mentioned above? Part of that gag is making fun of that trope.
Now here's the rub. Superman vs. the Elite, the movie, is, as near as we can tell, a self contained story. Lois and Clarke's relationship is based on that of the comic source without regard for one or more versions of the animated Supes, and as far as we know, Supes is the
only Superhero in that whole iteration with the exception of whoever appears or is overtly mentioned. Think about it. In the Christopher Reeve Superman movies, Superman's the
only hero. That's how a movie version like this operates. One of the changes for Batman: Under The Red Hood from the comic version was it simplified things and one of the ways it did that was by downplaying the references to the wider DC Universe. The cadre of villains is replaced by a generic cyborg assassin group and during the big fight with Amazo in the beginning, Nightwing pointing that Amazo is using Superman's heat vision was changed to Nightwing saying he's using lasers. That particular part actually annoyed some fans of the comic version. It's very much a mentality of "if we don't need the extended continuity to be in there, we'll leave it out so the audience will be less confused." And also, you know, 90 minute movie.
Watching it the first time with my friend, our main criticism was Manchester Black, who for the record I generally think is a pretty rad character, "didn't do enough bad stuff" to warrant a takedown. #ManchesterBlackDidNothingWrong. Like you and Benton, my buddy had a different take on human morality as applied to fictional superhero stories compared to my own, and sure enough, when I rewatched the thing by myself, I went "Oh yeah, he totally killed some folks." And it's like, ok, he murdered the ruler of a foreign nation, but apparently had no regard for how that would actually make the country's situation actually
improve. That level of short-sightedness. And then there's Atomic Skull. Yes, Skull was a dangerous, ruthless monster, because the story needed him to be. Someone's family member died, which sucked, and is a crappy thing that does happen, and then it's just "do it'. and he's dead and that's it. And it's like "Dude, that's what happens. Not even Superman actually saves everyone". Superman is sometimes written to be incredibly naïve to the point of stupidity, but he knows that people are going to die and he's going to do the best he can to prevent that.
It's reminds me of two different things.
1. JMS's story where Supes gets guilt tripped by someone and goes on a trip across America. Yep, that one. The one Linkara reviewed. In that story Superman is written as incredibly stupid, short-sighted and naive not becasue it's believable and in character, but because he needs to be for that story to play out the way it did. One woman being selfish (in grief) and blaming Superman when Superman probably saved, you know, however many, during that story, and he's so guilt stricken he does this whole thing, and he has to deal with a neighborhood with gangs in it and he has an incredibly stupid "solution" to the problem. He's tasked with the problem of talking down a grief-stricken jumper (a concept that, as pretty much everyone pointed out, Morrison, along with Frank Quitely on art, handled WAY better with way less dialogue in All-Star Superman) and his best solution is incredibly poor weak ponderous philosophy. It made him seem incredibly out of touch. When some cop asked if Supes would let a jumper jump, he dodges the question and leaves, instead of, oh I don't know, convincing someone in a moment of grief and loss to not throw their life away (and again, as someone who HAS experienced such things, I do find that offensive). The sad thing is, JMS DID have interesting ideas, referencing famous people who spent their life promoting peace who died doing that (such as John Lennon) but it wasn't integrated well into the story or into whatever point Supes (and JMS) was trying to make. When a woman who lost her job and mother tells him life is unfair, Supes simply says that life is neither fair nor unfair. Yaknow, ignoring that that's the
wrong answer to give to a jumper, and that, yeah, life CAN be unfair, SOME of the time, if you can't count on Superman to be encouraging in a moment when it's important, who exactly
can you count on for that?
2. The Walking Dead. It's got some "interesting" takes on human morality, but one I'll always remember (and a series low point for me personally in the tv show) also involved a character being told to "do it" during a moment where the story just went "oh ok, so he did a bad thing and one person died so now it's ok to kill him". I didn't like it in that either. Oddly enough that was adapted from the comic, but the show IMO handled it a LOT worse for a few different reasons.
Benton:
QuoteIn terms of the statement of the movie, there is indeed a good deal more than 'the Authority sucks.'
While that may be true, that familiarity with what's being directly referenced, critiqued, and rejected is a big part of it. As French film critic Jean-Luc Godard said "In order to criticize a movie, you have to make another movie". And Superman vs. the Elite, along with its comic counterpart, is exactly that second movie. When you're familiar with that "first movie", that's a pretty big factor. I've referenced this repeatedly in my posts in the Marvel Thread. Whether it's Peter David directly referencing fan disapproval of the new superhero costume and working it into the story, an X-Men comic having an extended sequence where the characters defended the entire superhero comic industry while giving their critics the proverbial middle finger, any of those godawful take that moments at various ideological opponents me and HT went over, every single solidarity "take that" moment at the fans in Amazing Spider-Man since the first page of Brand New Day, and Mark Waid's recent issue of Avengers, a brilliant tie-in to Secret Empire where he rejected the whole damn story and every thing he hates about anti-heroes (and I really hope people realized that's what he was doing), which I'll get to in a second cuz I've need an excuse to talk about that one. There's always that added layer that is 100% intentional and 100% the point. Well, in the case of Elite, 50% the point since the other half is reminding people why Superman is a great, enduring character.
HT again:
QuoteFor example,in Kingdom Come,resident anti-heroes point out villains are a lot worse today then in Supermans time,and thats kind of a valid point.Elite is never that logical.Almost all of their questions could be answered with: Its not Supermans job.
That's the key element, that KC may have done better and Elite did, IMO, not as well as it could have. You need to illustrate that "the bad guys are so bad we need to kill him". Screw you, it didn't happen. Heck, reminds me of a certain infamous scene from Man of Steel. One that also and (as many people have pointed out, failed) to sell. Those that defend it buy into that idea that it was necessary. I don't, Mark Waid (writer of Kingdom Come and that aforementioned Avengers issue) yelled at the movie screen in the theater, and I seem to recall a lot of people on this forum didn't dig it. And again, screw you movie, it didn't happen. Super-speed, flight, Superman's not a moron. It's not that hard. When the writers are as smart as the fans, we give the credit they're due.
But again, let's play that game. The villain WILL kill those civilians. Ok then, the bad guy who does bad things does one more bad thing, and the good guy does the good guy thing and throws him in jail (or the phantom zone). That's how it works.
BT dubs, just I know some people aren't aware of this,
Superman and Lois DO NOT KILL Ursa, Non and Zod in Superman II. There's a deleted scene where the three villains, depowered, are carted off to jail (with Luthor, of course) by the "artic police" (cuz Fortress of Solitude) I know the final of the film doesn't make this remotely clear, but the filmakers did not intend Superman II to be another one of those super hero movies where Batman kills the villain because movie. Keep that in your pocket the next time someone brings that up in order to knock down a beloved classic in their quest to prop up a movie that deliberately rejected what Superman's supposed to represent.
QuoteWhy not make a Kingdom Come movie?Just dont give it a Killing Joke treatment.
It's a shame, though it's it? Killing Joke was like the Silent Hill HD Collection of DC Animated movies. It had one job. The easiest job in the world. Faithfully recreate the definitive Batman vs. the Joker story that is referenced more than other. And they ALMOST did it. If that prologue (and that one extra scene, you know the one) wasn't there (or in the case of the former, was a better version of itself) I don't think people wouldn't consider it the trainwreck it is remembered as. The movie would be the comic and its merits would be that, for good or ill. Noone would seriously argue that the animation was so poor that it ruined the whole movie for them. Noone (other than Honest Trailers) would suggest Hamill phoned it for the passion project he committed to getting made. And the musical number and the fight scene with the circus freaks would be a minor alteration that actually worked fine for the movie adaptation of that fairly short story.
The sad thing is 1. I called the whole damn movie in advance. They made it longer because the story was too short and didn't have enough action 2. They added in more Batgirl because Babs was the thing people took issue with to begin with.
But they managed to make it worse. And again, this would have been the EASIEST thing in the world to fix. Make the prologue about Batgirl teaming up with Batman to
fight the Joker Just a random Joker caper. Make it the Laughing Fish or the boner one or something, just with Batgirl. Joker pulls a "I'll fix you yet Batman, I'll ruin everyone you'll love", Batman brushes it off like "cool story bro". Jim Gordon's there as they cart Joker away and he's just like "One of these days, man, one of these days." and there you go. An actual story that connects in a meaningful way.
Now, I'd love to think Bruce Timm and Co learned their lesson, but considering Batman and Harley Quinn, maybe not.
Benton:
QuoteComparing it to Kingdom Come is something of a non-sequitur, because they say rather different things. Kingdom Come wrestles with concepts of heroism, but it provides no real answers, other than affirming the value of selfless sacrifice in CM's final gesture. As for an adaptation of that film, I'd love it...but you could never get an art style that would do it justice, and, as you say, it could easily be handled terribly.
Considering DKR came up with a pretty effect compromise/middle ground (or in my opinion, and the opinion of at least some others, an active improvement) They could do something, and if nothing else, the story would presumably shine through. Funny thing though, and I know you're going to hate me for this Benton, but I've actually never read KC and a big reason why is I actually don't care for Alex Ross. As a cover artist, or a costume designer, he's fine, but as an interior artist, no. Everything with him is so posed and heavily referenced and in that painted, photo realistic thank-goodness-we-have-decent-costumes-or-this-would-look-really-stupid art style, and it's not my bag baby. I'm not even going to front. If DC put a remake today with the exact same script and story but the art done by someone I really enjoy, like, oh say, Mike Del Mundo, I'd seriously pick that bad boy up no question. Because I loves me some Mark Waid, and that's basically THE Mark Waid story. Speaking of....
The thing about Mark Waid is he HATES anti-heroes. Hates hates hates. He hates a Superman who kills, he actually hates Deadpool, and he'd says he had no interest in writing him these days (ironic, considering he wrote one of the formative Deadpool minis that introduced the memorable Wade/Siryn ship, which I dubbed "WaidShipping"). But the key is that it's a kind of morality he's against.
So guess what he did when he was tasked with a Secret Empire tie-in in his Avengers book, starring the Evil Avengers (yes, another one). he spent the ENTIRE issue telling you how much they suck! No seriously, the whole damn issue. Doc Ock's an insufferable jacka$$ (no change there), Deadpool's incredibly annoying, not a big stretch there, though Waid does have him take a dig at Batman V. Superman, because of course. Taskmaster and Black Ant are a bunch of opportunistic thugs, evil Scarlet Witch is a r@pist, and they're not fooling around on that one, they outright say it. Comic Marvel NEVER does that these days. And in the end Tasky and Black Ant find the alien horde they're sent to kill and it turns out the aliens are peaceful and they want to help humanity and Earth become a paradise and they're just like "Kay, but we're bad guys so we're going to kill you anyway" and they do it and they all just walk away like "Good job team, aren't we just a bunch of bada$$es". The final panel might as well have been Waid dropping the mic and being like "Yeah, that @#$% just happened." It was bloody brilliant! I'm not fronting, it was one of the most brilliant comics I've ever read. I seriously think Waid should get an Eisner for it (considering some of the utter garbage that got nominated for an Eisner). It really was that damn good.
Doesnt Lois name-drop Martian Manhunter at one point?Or I got DC movies mixed up?
Okay,hated might have been a strong word.Lets go with disliked.Its still a lot better then most N52 animated movies.
No point in repeating everything about KJ.Oddly enough,I prefered the movie version of DKR.Same goes for Year One.Apparently,Miller was writing for a movie even back then. :)
Oh,and Batman didnt kill anyone in DKR,despite what Snyder claims.
So The Authority.Funny thing,that I mentioned here before,is a major Seinfield is Unfunny effect there.After years of everyone aping it,Authority itself looks like a slow era of Avengers.
Loebs Maximums were his comment on Ultimates (that will become ironic later),but they owned their existance to Authority,so its all a circle.
Again,nothing wrong with taking a shot at another comic,but there were probably better ways then just introducing a bunch of stand-in strawmen and having Superman beat them up.His going crazy moment is kinda funny when you realize hes voiced by Sephiroth.Also,MB forgot he can press Supermans arteries and Coldcast forgot he has that EMP for organics in the final battle.
Or to boil it down,its not a bad moral,but it could have been handled better.
Back to then and now,this movie came out in 2012.DC in 2012.Stormwatch was going strong and Midnighter was kicking blood-vomiting goats around.
I used KC as an example of a similar(if not the same) type of story that did it better.I don't believe there is a finite number of movies that could be made,but resources could have been better spent here.Thou seeing everything that came after it,they probably wouldn't be.
The hilarious thing I see in all of this is that by 2012 DC owned Image which means they also owned Authority and Stormwatch...so pissing on the Authority would've been them pissing on their own brand...so it's not about bad mouthing the Authority. If they wanted to do that then they could've just used the Authority.
Quote from: Deaths Jester on September 21, 2017, 12:10:46 AM
The hilarious thing I see in all of this is that by 2012 DC owned Image which means they also owned Authority and Stormwatch...so pissing on the Authority would've been them pissing on their own brand...so it's not about bad mouthing the Authority. If they wanted to do that then they could've just used the Authority.
Um, I hate to tell you this, but DC doesn't own Image. Image is still around, though they're more of an indie company these days. That said, DC does own Wildstorm, which has the actual rights to the Authority and Stormwatch and the like. Just a FYI.
I assume that was a mistake,and he meant Wildstorm.
Its all movie pitches at Image these days,btw.
http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/2017/11/harley-quinn-animated-series-ordered/ (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/2017/11/harley-quinn-animated-series-ordered/)
Thats a lot of Harley...
Technically it's a show, and not a movie, but yeah.
I don't mind Harley, and I can enjoy her in things, but I don't seek her out. If Canada gets the streaming service, I'll probably watch it since I'll get it for Young Justice and Titans. Getting Margot Robbie to do the voice would be pretty sweet if it happens though.
In other news, the trailer for Gotham by Gaslight came out. It didn't really do it for me. I never liked Bruce Greenwood as Batman (easily one of my least favorite Batman VAs ever), with the exception of Under the Red Hood, of course, and this trailer has done nothing to change that opinion. Anthony Stewart Head (who played Giles on Buffy) is voicing Alfred in this, which is a nifty casting, but I couldn't tell it was him in the trailer, he sounds too different and doesn't have enough airtime in the trailer to tell. Otherwise it looks pretty meh. I'm not really a fan of Steampunk or Victorian England, and the animation for this looks pretty underwhelming. I'll watch it if airs on tv or comes to Netflix one day.
I caught Batman and Harley Quinn on tv the other night. Well that was a thing.
It was an odd movie for sure. Half the time it's played serious, half the time straight up comedy, Batman and Nightwing don't have much to do in general except be comedic foils to Harley's antics, and the story looks and feels a lot like a half hour episode of Batman TAS stretched out into 74 minutes by padding the hell out of certain scenes such as the chase scene, the music and dance number, a death of a minor supporting character, and a post-credits scene. Having finally seen the infamous ending, I can say it is indeed random, bizarre and anti-climatic. On a positive, I agree with the earlier post that praised the action scenes, they were indeed quite good.
That being said, the best part of the movie (other than hilarious Bruce Timm cameo) by far was Rob Paulson's cover of the old country song "Don't Pull Your Love". It's such a beautiful song someone on YT did an edit to take out the audio of the other characters talking over the song so you can just listen to it outside of the movie, and I've listened to that version countless times. It's just that good. (I'm listening to it right now)
Suicide Squad Hell to Pay.Somewhat based on a Secret Six story.Its not that great even by the standard of trashy action movies.
It has a few good character moments,and nice action scenes,but old problems are still around,and CW publicity and trying too hard to be mature doesnt really help.
I give them a fair amount of credit for actually giving some insight into the character of Bronze Tiger, probably the best adaptation of the character outside the comics, where he's usually just "Martial Arts Thug".
I agree there.
Also,I found Copperhead to be pretty interesting.Mostly because we dont see him that often.
On the other hand,Im really tired of Killer Frost,Harley and Deadshot.And Deathstroke,but thats a different movie.With a weird apperence of Kevin Smith. 🤔
Justice League Dark is a valiant effort at adapting the magic side of DC,but once again N52 looks and a not-so-good voice cast don't do it any favors.At least,it was an honest attempt,which is more then I can say for a lot of their other films since JL War onward.
Batman and Harley Quinn Remember Batman The Animated Series?Well,lets revisit that.And add some adult humor because we really want to be Deadpool.And lets get Kevin Conroy to phone in this one.
I could rant a lot about this one,but in the end,as a lot of people pointed out- an episode of New Adventures of Batman did it better in 20 minutes,20 years ago.
Everything I heard about that movie made me deeply, deeply sad.
So apparently Death of Superman has leaked online...
Anyone take a gander?
Umm....no, I don't do that. I'm not a fan of piracy in general. I'll give it a digital rental when it comes out. I imagine if there's anything particularly interesting in it the comic news sites will spoil it like they did The Killing Joke so I'll likely hear of it there first.
Just finished watching this. I thought it was pretty decent. Not amazing, but not bad. I liked the connections to the previous animated movies in the same set. Rainn Wilson as Luthor was alright, not great, a little too light-sounding than I prefer my Luthors, but he did sound kinda similar to James Woods from Justice League Action who I got used to with time. It is a more faithful adaptation than Superman Doomsday, with the League being used in a very similar way to the JLA roster from the 90's storyline.
Spoiler
This movie implies that Doomsday came from Apocalypse, as there are a few references to it at the beginning of the movie and the spacepod or whatever it was that contains Doomsday came through a Boom Tube in space.
The cameos and guest stars were great, but they do raise some questions. Kate Kane (not Batwoman, but Kate Kane) appears at Supe's memorial, but Shazam, John Stewart and the Titans other than Damien never appear in the movie. None of the Justice League Dark characters appear. Seems a bit selective. The other Leaguers all making fun of Batman was amusing. I liked Barry's bit about telling Iris his secret and getting married. Peter Tomasi wrote this and as such it includes a reference to the modern comics: When Supes dies he says to Lois "What a lucky man I've been" a reference to the death of the New 52 Superman. There's also a series of mid-credit scenes featuring Cyborg Superman, Superboy, Eradicator and Steel. John Henry Irons, Hank Henshaw (Cyborg Superman), Superboy, and one of CS or Eradicator appear in the movie proper (the last one shown flying away from Supe's gravesite at the end of the movie.) We see Superboy in a test tube in a Cadmus lab and he's wearing the New 52 Kon-El costume. Promotional material for Reign of the Supermen shows that Superboy will be wearing the 90's glasses and the coat over that New 52 costume, which actually looks pretty cool.
Cress Williams (Black Lightning) voices John Henry Irons (he previously cameod in Throne of Atlantis voiced by Khary Payton), Patrick Fabian from Better Call Saul voices Hank Henshaw, and while we don't hear him in this film, Cameron Monaghan (Jerome/Joker from Gotham) is going to voice Superboy.
An update on the upcoming followup Reign of the Supermen film. We've gotten a few trailers so far, animation looks a little iffy but it's still neat to see these characters in a movie. I'm disappointed that so far (to my knowledge) we still haven't heard Cameron Monaghan as Superboy since I've loved his Joker on Gotham and I really want to see how he does Superboy (for the record, what we do know is Superboy is going to reimagined as a "modern" young celebrity, social media exposure and all. Which is fair, because when Connor was introduced in the 90's comics he was a Booster Gold style glory hound through and through. Or, to go closer to home, he's basically the Ultimen from JLU. There is a gag in the movie I read about that was shown at comic con involving Superboy that was so funny and perfect I literally burst into laughter:
Spoiler
Superboy is at a parade or somesuch, with the Justice League present as well. They find him insufferable. GL (I assume Hal) says "I can make the shot guys, just say the word." Then Batman of all people says "I say take the shot." (no doubt in Jason O'Mara's signature deadpan). I just died. I think that might be one of my favorite Batman lines of all time. Up there with "So that's what that feels like" and Kevin Conroy's Batman saying "Light's Out, old chum."
Anyways, I just finished watching Teen Titans Go the Movies. Honestly? I kinda loved it. Some jokes were low brow duds (times like this I question if fart jokes have ever been unironically funny in any context) but the various cameos, callbacks and references were fun (for example, Miss Martian and Artemis can bee seen in the superhero group shots) and some of the jokes, predictably and not particularly fresh as they were, got a legit laugh from me, such as:
Spoiler
-The poor, poor Challengers of the Unknown getting completely dumped on. I wonder if they were the creator's first choice for such a gag.
-The "No stopping the Batman" gag, which ends with Batman, having run out of vehicles, is being carried by a running Alfred
-The Shia Leboff gag, which I almost feel guilty for laughing at. "He's worse than any supervillain!"
-Stan Lee's cameos (2!) Even the noticeably poorer audio quality of his voice over just adds to the charm.
Will Arnett was great as Slade of course. While I thought the casting an odd choice when I first learned of it honestly, I don't think Ron Pearlman from the original series would have done as good a job doing this material. Kristin Bell was also quite good as the movie director. Nicholas Cage as Superman (!!!) was fine performance-wise (he has 2 or 3 lines, tops) but his voice, unsurprisingly doesn't really match the character. Ditto Wonder Woman.
Spoiler
And yes, the mid-credits gag was delightful. I really hope DC/WB keep their promise and we get more of the original show, and I also would appreciate it if it makes it to Canada, especially since Canada's currently getting mildly screwed over when it comes to DC's superhero shows.
I just watched Reign of the Supermen!
Disappointing, but not soul-crushingly so. It's a textbook example of what's wrong with some of these post-Flashpoint/New 52 DC Animated movies: they should be better, but for some reason aren't. I don't know what it is, but I think they need better writers. They feel flat. Characters, character arcs, plot points, plot twists, big moments, should have more weight but feel flat. The joke about GL sniping Superboy wasn't as funny as I thought it would be. I guess it's just the old effect where some jokes are funniest the first time you hear it. I think Conroy would have sold the joke better myself.
Nathan Fillion's GL got a great one-liner at the end of the movie though. The post credit scene made me VERY happy.
The rest of the movie? Eh, I dunno. It's definitely an accurate adaptation of the 90's storyline. Between this and the previous film, if there's a big moment or character from the Death and Return of the Superman storyline you wanted to make it into the movie, chances are they're in it. It's a MUCH more accurate adaptation than Superman Doomsday (haven't decided yet which is a better movie. I'm tempted to say Doomsday, if for no other reason than Adam Baldwin as evil Superd*ckery Superman, James Marsters as creepy jilted ex-lover Lex Luthor, and John Dimaggio as creepy child kidnapper Toyman)
Anyway, Reign has some changes and plot twists that allow people familiar with the comic storyline and other adaptations to be surprised, and feels like it's got some legit payoff for this long string of movies MCU style, but the big moments and reveals should be a huge effing deal and instead land with a resounding "oh, ok." On the other hand, it has Wonder Woman making what sounds like some playful references to her being bisexual and Superman referencing a memorable George Costansta bit from Seinfeld, so that's something.
Voice wise, it's a very passable film. Nobody's bad, but nobody really stands out. It's still kinda neat that Howard Hamlin from Better Call Saul is Hank Henshaw but I'm unclear as whether Cyborg Superman was voiced by him or Superman actor Jerry O'Connell. The credits don't make it clear, online sources are conflicting, and the character has a noticeable digital effect over his voice. Gotham's Cameron Monaghan is pretty much unrecognizable as Superboy, and he does a pretty good job. He reminded me a bit of Young Justice's Kid Flash. Black Lightning actor Cress Williams is Steel and he's decent, but not as good as when he plays Jefferson Pierce/Black Lightning on live action tv. And Chloe Sullivan from Smallville makes a cameo at the beginning of the movie at the Daily Planet, looking and sounding exactly like Irma from the 2012 TMNT (she isn't credited, and only has one line, but sounded like Kate Miccuci, who voiced Irma and several versions of Velma from Scooby Doo). I wonder if they changed her to not resemble Allison Mack? And I appreciate that a certain pre-established character who shows up later in the show got a much needed recasting.
The Justice League has a little more involvement in this than I was expecting, which makes it seem a bit like Captain America: Civil War. Also I keep forgetting this, but it's really weird that this iteration of the DC Universe has introduced the Connor Kent Superboy before Supergirl (though we don't know that for sure, since some heroes in this universe show up already having become superheroes, like the Teen Titans or Nightwing) I would guess it won't be long before a Rebirth/Arrowverse inspired Supergirl appears in a future film.
Now as for that post credit scene:
Spoiler
Lex Luthor is joining the Justice League and apparently they're doing Darkseid War. Yeah baby yeah! I'm finally getting my wish after all these years! :lol:
Next Batman movie is s crossover with TMNT.Really. 😀
Yeah, that was surprising to hear. They've said it will be based on the first crossover miniseries, which could be cool. Nick is also doing another TMNT animated movie on Netflix. I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen more animated TMNT films, seems like it would have been a no brainer.
I'll say this, we haven't seen a Batman/TMNT crossover movie before. We've seen many different iterations of the two separate groups though.
Not sure I dig the character designs. The Batman characters look ok I guess, but the TMNT look a bit ugly. They kinda look like someone trying to do Santaloucco's art from the IDW comics but not able to pull it off. \
Also, this movie makes the landmark moment where Troy Baker voices both Batman and the Joker in the same thing. I was thinking a while back that it was only a matter of time before that happened.
Okay, I just saw that DC is doing a "Showcase" collection with a bunch of short films:
http://majorspoilers.com/2019/05/08/warner-bros-announces-new-dc-showcase-animated-shorts/
These include Sgt. Rock and the Creature Commandos, Adam Strange, Death of the Endless, and the Phantom Stranger. Now, that is a really cool list of characters, and it is great seeing DC explore some of these less-traveled corners of their universe. Most of the blurbs sound pretty interesting, though I am already feeling my eyes roll about the Adam Strange one. Heaven forbid we get a straight adaptation of a heroic character. No, he's got to be a burnt-out drunk who USED to be someone. Heroes! That's particularly silly, because it isn't like Adam Strange has had a lot of shots at the limelight.
In general though, I think this is pretty cool.
Eh,people like old (super)heroes I guess.
And I guess they are going for sort of a space western.
You know, they did the same thing with Aquaman in that deplorable JL: Throne of Atlantis adaptation. It's like the hacks who are writing these things can't conceive of a character arc that doesn't start at 'drunken loser' or 'wash out.' You know, there are other types of arcs!
Yeah,that was a thing.
I think they are all taking inspiration from the same thing.Who the hell even did it first?
But Sgt Rock voiced by Karl Urban,that I can live with with.
Indeed. He's a great choice, and I am certainly curious about them combining Sgt. Rock and the Creature Commandos.
Im not all that familiar with CC so I cant really say.But DC branching outside of superhero genre,that I welcome in general.
Just watched Batman Vs the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Really enjoyed it. Lord knows it's better than the current, more kid-oriented Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which is, IMO, the worst (non-live action, at least) incarnation of the franchise by a wide margin.
Animation wasn't the greatest, but the fights were pretty ballin'. Baxter Stockman was, once again, a complete joke (even more than usual). Voice cast was decent, though I wasn't entirely happy with the voice for Robin (Damien Wayne) but everything else about him was on point. They only briefly acknowledge his status as Bruce's son though.
Fair warning to parents: this one's not for kids. On par with many other DC animated movies, it's got blood, stabbings, broken bones, severed limbs and tastefully done decapitations. Not frequent, but still present. Mild swearing as well.
Also, the end credits? Brilliant! There's also a really nifty post-credit scene.
Spoiler
The end credits is entirely composed of mock-up images of Batman and TMNT covers redone to be crossovers. I legitimately want a cover gallery of all of these in the back of Batman/TMNT Vol. 3.
Post Credits scene is Shredder mutated into a Joker version of himself. Which happens in Batman/TMNT Vol. 3.
What the heck? What the freaking heck? How stupid is DC? How do you make TMNT vs. Batman and not make it kid friendly? Do they dislike money and positive press? I can't imagine a kid who WOULDN'T think that was awesome.
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 05, 2019, 02:43:48 AM
What the heck? What the freaking heck? How stupid is DC? How do you make TMNT vs. Batman and not make it kid friendly? Do they dislike money and positive press? I can't imagine a kid who WOULDN'T think that was awesome.
Kids don't have money. 30+ year old comic book nerds have money. I'm sure that's as far as their logic went on that one.
So I'm going to play half-and-half devil's advocate.
So on the one hand - this is an adaptation of the comic book. Now I don't recall the comic having this level of violence in it, but the TMNT comics that are not spun off from the animated shows have been more adult oriented and more violent. And also the comic was written by James Tynion, who heavily worked with Scott Snyder on Batman, Batman Eternal, and Batman & Robin Eternal. I kinda consider anything Batman he writes to be an extension of Scott Snyder's Batman, and that run featured, among other things, the infamous stapled-on Joker face.
In addition to that - if I'm being fair 1. The 2003 TMNT wasn't that different in that regard except for the blood (and there's not a lot of blood, but there is blood) and swearing. Then again, the one decapitation in that show was revealed to be that of a robot body by the end of the same episode. 2. The 2012 features a decapitation of a real flesh and blood person (though the visualization of that was somewhat censored for the final episode as aired, as an artist who worked on the show revealed on social media). And, minus the blood, it's not that worse than Star Wars The Clone Wars. Then again, I used to joke that Clone Wars was the most ruthless cartoon on tv at the time. Also, the first live action TMNT had the Turtles say "Damn".
For the record, I also read that Nick had at least one notable mandate - that none of the voice actors from the current cartoons play the same character in this movie. Which I actually kinda understand, it helps make it clear this is a different iteration of TMNT.
On the other hand - this is an animated TMNT and in the world of animated TMNT, that's something for the kids, and it's going to reach a wider audience. And you could have told the exact same story without any of the violence I mentioned, or the two or three instances of mild swearing, and it would have been pretty much the same, and just as good. I mean, I enjoyed seeing those elements, but I'm a morbid mofo and that's not an indication of actual quality. As I like to say, dark is not good - good is good.
The movie also features Bane mentioning having broken the Bat - something I don't think he's ever done in an iteration of Batman aimed specifically at kids - and the death of Jason Todd gets mentioned - which also does not exist outside of non-kid friendly shows.
I mean, let's not mince words - DC loves them the grimdark and "adult" content. These are the guys who brought back Young Justice and added R-rated violence, political intrigue and extra sexual innuendo (and the Suicide Squad are showing up in the second half - then again, they showed up in JLU too...). And who are now doing R-rated live action superhero shows (with both f-bombs and nudity) on their streaming service. Mind you I'm straying off topic here...
Coming back full circle - there was also a pretty good (IMO) comic book crossover between Batman TAS and the 2012 TMNT cartoon. That would have had an awesome animated movie in its own right. I mean, heck, it would have been even better as a animated movie because then it presumably would have had Conroy and Hamill coming back to do Batman and Joker, and the cast of the 2012 TMNT to do their roles again. And the animation would have been really easily to nail since it was already made to look like the cartoons. And it being TAS, the older fans of Batman TAS probably would have eaten it up (just maybe not let Bruce Timm have any influence on the story - you never know, he might sex it up :P)
Quote from: Panther_Gunn on June 05, 2019, 03:22:47 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 05, 2019, 02:43:48 AM
What the heck? What the freaking heck? How stupid is DC? How do you make TMNT vs. Batman and not make it kid friendly? Do they dislike money and positive press? I can't imagine a kid who WOULDN'T think that was awesome.
Kids don't have money. 30+ year old comic book nerds have money. I'm sure that's as far as their logic went on that one.
I hope not else they need fire those people. I used to work selling toys and the number one buyer for children is moms but the takeaway is the content is based on what kids jump up and down for. I mean the money comes from moms. Comic book nerds, yes us, do not factor in when it comes to film productions from companies like WB or Disney. I know that's a hard pill but it's just math. People who actually both read and buy printed comics are a minority of the world population, stunningly thus can't justify the money put into any feature film, that money being a film must make 200%+ it's initial investment before it's considered to make a profit. Like a house. You have to first make the money you're in the negative that you spent on it. Then try and sell it for the same value and past that is a profit turned. Just saying though demographics here more moms are less against violence then one would think, look at Into The Spider-verse for example. The current generation is made up primarily by moms who grew up with violent movies and as youth protested the parents groups that would censor works for children.
That said I haven't watched it, it's sitting on the shelf but I haven't made time to give it my complete attention so we'll see. But my love of both of these franchises did come from origins that were also violent, the grim and grit era it was called, or at least violent for the day so perhaps. Added I haven't seen much of the current Batman animated stuff but know the source material and bet kids are seeing more mature stuff then I did as a child there but have seen Turtles, noting Fox Kids to Nick and those shows were more violent and mature then the stuff I grew up with by miles. A much harder to swallow pill here and believe me, my little niece is sixteen now...oy, right in the migraine, kids today are grown in a different climate. Video games without labels on them but more the internet. The internet where in most cases they have to present themselves as eighteen years old and/or are presumed as such and chat with raging blunt adults and see content we would have grounded for months had our parents ever caught us looking at. They're just much more inundated to it all they were in spite of the ill of that statement and much, much more difficult to impress and shock.
@Silver Shocker: Exactly. Oh hey when I saw the original live TMNT film in the theater, opening day with all my friends and we danced in a line to the Putzers advert them of course, I remember the " damn " and seeing a mom take her son out of the theater with her hands over his ears. That poor boy, he probably needed therapy for life over missing the Ninja Turtles film lol.
The next DC Animated Batman movie has been revealed:
Batman: Death in the Family. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DpmjfHzRFg) An Interactive DC Movie. Rated R for Strong Bloody Violence and some Drug Material.
Actually a very clever idea. It's very clearly being presented as a prequel to the Red Hood movie (Joker and Black Mask look exactly the same, and I assume Batman and Nightwing do - I honestly can't remember). Bruce Greenwood (Batman) Vincent Martella (Jason Todd as Robin) and John Dimaggio (Joker) return. Curious if Neal Patrick Harris is returning to voice Nightwing or Jensen Ackles as Red Hood (who is indeed in the movie).
Funny thing, when I saw the title I assumed it was Death OF the Family, as in the New 52 Scott Snyder story featuring the Joker with the infamous stapled on face. That's what happened when you have the title be that similar.
Also, a new Superman movie was revealed recently: Man of Tomorrow. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weOF9_FGjOk) Featuring Darrin Criss as Superman and Zachary Quinto as Lex Luthor. Looks nifty.
See, I saw the DitF announcement as a tweet, which made a thing about the choose the ending. I'm torn, because on the one hand, I loved under the red hood, and maintain it's the best animated Batman film, even above mask of the Phantasm. It's such a weird concept though, doing a choose your own adventure for Batman. We'll see.
Man of Tomorrow looks so pretty. Gorgeous art style, and it sounds like they've got a cool story to tell. I look forward to it.
Time for a DC animated movie roundup once again!
Superman Red Son and Justice League Dark: Apocalypse War ended up getting discussed in the DC Extended Universe thread (this ended up happening because of a very broad discussion on the different versions of Lex Luthor due to Batman V Superman)
Wonder Woman: Bloodlines....surprisingly I didn't comment on this one. I saw it on tv a year ago or so. It's a prequel to WW's appearance in JL War and brings back the classic style costume (since the set of movies JL War was part of gave WW a unique costume for some reason) Nifty! The plot is about Silver Swan. I knew nothing about Silver Swan, so I had a lot of fun with this movie! Constance Zimmer (Strongarm from Transformers: Robots in Disguise 2015) voices Veronica Cale. Cheetah is also in this, but they found a fun way to make this version of her unique. Micheal Dorn has a somewhat scene-stealing role as a Minotaur. It had a post credit scene, but this movie did not get payoff in any way, shape or form in Apocalypse War. I kinda hope this thing gets a followup anyway.
[edit: a correction: Apparently only the opening scene of the movie takes place before JL War. Admittedly, I was unclear on this, as other than Steve Trevor and WW herself, the movie doesn't feature a single other character who appears in the other films other than Cheetah. Apparently there's dialogue referencing the other movies, but I have no memory of that and might have missed those parts when watching the flick.]
Superman....whatever it is called, is the exact opposite of this movie. It's just the origin of Superman again. The biggest thing it has going against it is that everyone's seen this story a million times. If that wasn't the case, it'd probably be really good. Animation is quite nice. Lobo naturally steals the show. J'onn J'onzz is always a treat. I enjoyed hearing Neil Flynn as Pa Kent. Perry White is modelled after George C. Scott. The main villain is Parasite, which is refreshing. Lex is getting political again, which also happened in Young Justice Outsiders, and I thought Quinto sounded off as Luthor (I had forgotten it was him doing the voice). Lois Lane in this (she's voiced by Alexandra Dadarrio, who I've only ever seen/heard in the campaign from the video game Battlefield: Hardline) is kind of a troll, and that's fun.
Batman: Death in the Family. I can't really tell you if it's any good, because I haven't really seen it. Oh I rented it, but I got screwed over, as did many others. I was curious how digital formats would handle this interactive movie, and the answer is poorly. Extremely poorly. How? They cut out the interactive element of it, thus cutting out over 50% of the film. I only got to see only one "playthrough" and it was a clip show recapping the Under The Red Hood movie.
I will have to track down the real version of this movie at some point in the future. Which is a shame, because I've heard there's some really interesting stuff in the other sections of it. I've heard Dimaggio's Joker is really good in this (I already really enjoyed his version in UTRH) and I was told this thing is intensively violent and disturbing. And I was doubtful. There's no way this thing could register any kind of strong reaction after the near-plotless gore-fest that was Apocalypse War. Then I looked up some spoilers online for this thing and um.....YUP. That's one of the most messed up things I've ever seen. Should be "fun".
Now the GOOD news. To make up for cutting out almost the entire film, the digital rental included every single one of the new shorts, so I've seen all of them. The only one that was worth mentioning was Death of the Endless, which was a hauntingly beautiful and tragic story featuring a surprisingly well cast Jamie Chung as Death. I can't remember if I've ever read a single comic featuring the character but I've always liked Death of the Endless. There's something fun and pleasant about a personification of Death being depicted as a very pretty, very friendly young woman who is in no way overtly threatening or terrifying. She's got a great design and it's cool to have a really pleasant voice to attach to the design for the first time in any medium. I've read that this inclusion of this short actually caused the sales of the Blu-ray it was attached to increase dramatically. Highly recommended.
Hmm, I hadn't seen anything about that WW movie. That actually looks pretty darn cool.
It was kinda nifty. The original trailer shows off that WW would be fighting a bunch of WW-specific villains (Doctor Cyber and a movie-inspired Doctor Poison are also in this) and I thought that was kinda neat, especially since I barely know who any of these people are. It was mentioned in an interview that the movie was indeed meant to bank off the then-upcoming Wonder Woman 1984, and since that movie was going to use Cheetah they downplayed Cheetah's role in the story (she was going to have a much larger role, and thus ended up with a fairly small one here) and shifted focus to Silver Swan.
Mind you, I thought the original WW animated movie was rather good too, and IMO better than the live action movie (though they have similar plots, using Ares as the villain and having one scene, the scene in the alleyway, that are identical). The reason why? 1. The Amazons are put to MUCH better use in the movie's plot, heavily figuring into the final act and 2. Alfred Molina as Ares. We also see Hades in the underworld, who is depicted as a gross, hedonistic slob in a similar way to the Hedon-Bot from Futurama.
Bloodlines is, if I recall, quite possibly the least violent film in the entire DC animated extended universe, I can't recall if there's a single one of those violent moments DC's animated films are known for, but it features a strangely lit and shot, out of place sequence where Silver Swan is naked before becoming a supervillain (apparently you have to take your clothes off to become a cyborg I guess. Someone forgot to tell Victor Stone that) the scene was done like some kind of satanic ritual. Like I said, it was strangely out of place.
Canada finally aired Green Lantern: Emerald Knights on tv (I have no idea why it took well over 10 years) so I have now seen EVERY single DC animated film in the main line with the exception of the proper version of Death of the Family. It was alright, but I get the feeling I would have enjoyed it more if I'd seen it back when it first came out. What was fun about the film is that each story in it is animated in a slightly different art style, with some of it being somewhat similar to Japanese Anime. The sequence with Kelly Hu's Laira was probably my favorite, but I liked the framing sequence with Aresia as well.
As long as I'm going over these movies, I might as well finally post a slightly revised version of my old review of JL vs the Fatal Five. It's a long review, but there's a lot to talk about with that movie:
I enjoyed it, but the bad news is I don't remember it too well (it airs on tv a lot, but I've never bothered to rewatch it). The good news is I wrote my review of it back when I saw the film like a year ago so even though I don't remember the details, I still wrote them down. (Wow, rereading my review, there's a LOT I don't remember about this movie. Might warrant a rewatch)
Is it like watching a lost JLU storyline? Somewhat. It looks like one, it sounds like one. The music sounds like JLU, Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman all debut with the level of gusto appropriate for this return. Conroy, Newbern and Eisenberg fit the roles again like a glove. Like they time traveled from 2006 (had to look it up - do I feel old). There's some cute dialogue that feels suitably DCAU ("Your dad would be proud." "My dad was a farmer." "The other one.") The JLU theme music is present and accounted for. The Superman TAS and Batman TAS theme are both heard during the movie. Wonder Woman has a sword at her hip (a reasonable update IMO) but she uses it sparingly. Mr. Terrific being voiced by Kevin Micheal Richardson is a bit jarring, but not a deal breaker.
As in the early sneak peek, Batman and Ms. Martian stole the movie by a wide margin. Pretty much everything MM said was great and her interactions with Batman are some of the best in the whole DCAU. "Stay in the car." "It's hot in the car." I still don't like MM's costume in this though.
There's a number of cute nods to the DCAU that help it feel more like a sense of coming home. I appreciated them and would put them under the spoiler tag if that was still a thing. [
Edit: the spoiler tag is back, so I will indeed put them under the them.]
That being said, it is another PG-13 DC animated movie. And as such, within the first twenty minutes alone we have cursing ("What the hell?" "What a load of crap" "You're a ring. You don't know d*ck" "Cut the crap.") and Star Boy has a nude scene where we see his butt a few times at a distance. We also have some mild political reference. A Mad Stan-style terrorist rants about the Kennedy assassination. Much later in the film, a character says the s-word. There is some PG-13 violence in line with the more modern animated movies as well. There's blood and stabbings.
Is it in the same universe as JLU? It certainly seems that way. Every returning character outside of the Legion looks exactly like they did in the original cartoons (minus WW's sword) but the Legion themselves don't match the designs from the Legion episode of JLU (or their appearances in Superman TAS for that matter). I wouldn't say that negates it being JLU.
As advertised, the movie tackles mental illness with Starboy and Jessica Cruz. While it does dip a bit into sensationalism with Starboy, as someone who lives with a condition every day, I found Jessica Cruz' material pretty relatable and well handled. For added meta, Jessica Cruz is voiced by Diane Guererro (Crazy Jane from Doom Patrol). Her performance is a little bit stiff compared to Doom Patrol, but otherwise decent.
So yeah, highly recommended for JLU/DCAU fans, as long as the mild PG-13 content isn't a deal breaker.
Here's some of the references I caught:
Spoiler
-J'onn is mentioned as being offworld fighting Okaarans.
-Miss Martian teases Batman by turning into the DCAU Tim Drake Robin at one point.
-A fight breaks out at "Maggin Center" no doubt a reference to Eliot S! Maggin.
-At the asylum, we see Two-Face, who has a fair amount of dialogue, as well as Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn. You hear a bit of Tara Strong as Harley during a riot scene, as she was also on hand to voice Saturn Girl and Cruz's therapist. Bruce Timm voiced Two-Face. Did a pretty good job too. Though, to paragraph Linkara "Why would you send Starboy to the same place you send The Joker?!"
-Batman, when talking about Jessica Cruz, has a line that implies there are other Green Lanterns.
-Starboy mentions the Joker being at Arkham, saying people were afraid of him.
-There's no reference to Supergirl, as near as I could tell (fans of JLU may recall she stayed in the future at the end of the Legion episode near the end of the show's run)
-Ms. Martian sees a photo of Star Boy and Lightning Lass and assumes she's his girlfriend. Jessica says she could be his cousin, which makes MM smile.
-When Batman and MM see the Legion museum, as seen in the Sneak Peek, we see Wildfire, Bouncing Boy, Dawnstar, Lightning Lad, Mon-El, Ultra Boy
-We see 31st century museum exihibits of the Justice Leauge, featuring statues of Aquaman, Hawkgirl, J'onn, Black Canary, Green Arrow, Vixen, Steel, Doctor Fate, Zatanna, Huntress, Captain Marvel, Captain Atom, Atom and Flash - all in thier DCAU designs. During this sequence it plays a version of the Justice League season 1 and 2 theme music. Batman's statue is based on his Batman TAS design, which leads to Batman saying "Nothing like me."
-After that we see a Green Lantern exhibit - showing Hal, John, Guy AND Kyle. Kyle's even wearing his original 90's comic costume, Crab mask and all.
-The Green Lanterns are said to be fighting a war on Rann.
-Kilowog makes a cameo, voiced by KMR, who voiced him on Green Lantern: TAS.
One thing that bothered me about the movie though. Starboy, without 31st Century medication, is hindered by his condition for pretty much the entire movie, prone to emotional outbursts and somewhat disjointed ramblings. So during the movie I'm thinking, you've got Mister Terrific, the third most intelligent man on the planet, right there. And Batman. You're telling me neither of them could MAKE the medicine for him? I mean, ok, sure, that's not really their field, but the third smartest person (the first according to JLU was Lex Luthor) should be able to do it, and we've seen the DCAU Batman make medicine for people before.
In closing, I didn't
love it, and it's not quite the return to JLU form, but I would enthusiastically advocate DC to make it a full revival series ala Young Justice, Clone Wars or Animaniacs. I could watch an entire show of just Batman and this movie's version of Miss Martian.
Thanks for sharing that, SS! I've been quite interested in that movie precisely because of its JLU connections. It sounds like it is probably worth my time.
It was pretty good. That said, as an aside to I guess past ss, the thing with medication is that mixing medicine can be dangerous, and medicine which deals with brain chemistry is super tricky. I have no doubt they could reverse engineer the medicine if they had some, but inventing a psychosis medication on the fly, that doesn't conflict with residuals already in his system... It'd be dangerous to even try tbh.
Makes sense.....
But we also have extremely skilled and powerful magic users in this universe.... it's possible those powers could be very helpful...
This is why these concepts are often wonky in a fantasy setting like this...
That's true, 'Mato, but I'd argue that kind of verisimilitude is somewhat antithetical to a superhero universe replete with super science. ;)
That's true... Except by that logic, they should be able to magically cure Harvey Dent's multiple personalities, riddler's narcism, etc. I don't think Batman would allow Harvey to rot in Arkham if he could have a super buddy whip up a mental health cure.
And again, this is trying to do that with a metahuman like, the day after they met him, without any understanding of what his issues are even caused by.
I can believe Batman can make, say, a joker toxin cure within a few hours, because if joker made it Batman probably knows how to unmake it, and he's dealt with similar toxins enough. But I don't have any issues believing he can't solve a mental health problem he's never seen before within a few days.
Ha, yeah, there are any number of world-breaking conceits in a superhero universe like the DCU.
Alright, I take a nap for a few hours, think some more on it and find out we're apparently all in. I can live with that. It's not like I made the movie.
Benton: I almost forgot to mention, you still haven't seen the film, eh? Everything under this section is going to vaguely sound like I hated it so I want to reiterate: if you're able to, you should watch it at some point. It's fun.
There's surprisingly little footage of it on YT, (maybe WB had a lot of it taken down) but this 47-second clip does a good job of showing how fun it is. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlW8fGiUX_k) Bruce Timm really did do a good Richard Moll impression.
I just finished re-watching JLU itself very recently, so I find myself thinking I should rewatch it sometime in the near future.
Starting with that clip, I should mention, and I've touched on this kind of thing before here on FR.....trained mental health professionals
do not call their patients "lunatics". DC got a LOT of flak for that from the mental health industry when the New 52 came out. At the time it was aimed at the villains, but here it's far more inappropriate. Speaking of which...
Quote from: Tomato on December 28, 2020, 10:39:25 PM
That's true... Except by that logic, they should be able to magically cure Harvey Dent's multiple personalities, riddler's narcism, etc. I don't think Batman would allow Harvey to rot in Arkham if he could have a super buddy whip up a mental health cure.
Those characters are
villains. Starboy (and Cruz) are
heroes. We want our heroes to
overcome their problems, especially if they're supposed to remind us of ourselves. [And you know the sad thing? This section is one of the
last parts I thought to write. :blink: ]
Depending on how you define the phrase "magic", they've done stuff like this a million times.
Originally I listed off a truly
massive list of characters (not just from DC) but the short version is it's more or less the go-to method to reverse a heel turn.
They literally did exactly what you described in the Arrowerse like half a dozen times.
Credit where credit is due. Suggestion of the good guys making makeshift medication is socially irresponsible.
To that I say 4 things:
1. As they say, if you're not equipped to handle the heavy subject, don't touch the heavy subject.
2. There's a very good reason Breaking Bad doesn't tell you in any way how to make the meth. There's a reason Fight Club uses the term "and some other stuff" to describe how to make bombs.
3. Internal in-universe logic. Mr. Terrific is the third-smartest person on planet Earth. There was an entire episode of Justice League Action establishing this, and I feel confident it's more or less accurate across the board. The only way the person who came up with the original medication is more qualified than Holt is if it was Brainy, and Luthor is explicitly established as being as smart or smarter than Brainy in Red Son, Supergirl AND JLU.
From the DC wiki: "Genius Level Intellect: Holt is described as having "a natural aptitude for having natural aptitudes;" picking up complicated skills quickly and retaining them, such as performing emergency surgery on teammate Alan Scott after reading about the procedure in a medical text book. As Holt himself put it, "everyone has a talent...Mine is learning."
Eidetic Memory: Holt also possesses an eidetic memory, meaning that he never forgets anything and has perfect recall.
Polymath: Holt is also a polymath who has specialized in multiple fields of medicine, engineering and science. He possesses 14 Ph.D's (two of which are in engineering and physics-including assorted doctorates and masters in degrees in Law, Psychology, Chemistry, Political Science and Mathematics)."
FOURTEEN PH.D'S. I LOWBALLED IT. I guessed 8.
Holt's PH.D's Include chemistry and psychology.
On further reflection, this could have solved by not having Mr. Terrific in the movie. There are plenty of members of the league who don't appear in person in the flick, including Dr. Fate and Zatanna, and Holt wasn't in this (he wasn't even that main a character in JLU) I probably wouldn't have brought it up at all.
4. You have seen
the ending to this film, correct?
I found the ending (to Starboy's story) disappointed me. I see it as a cop-op, and it soured the movie slightly (or rather, that part of the story). It also ended up putting more of the spotlight on him and less on Jess, and as I said earlier, of the two, I found Jess was handled better. Starboy felt more like a caricature to me, while Jess felt more like a real person.
Personally I would have preferred one or both of two things:
1) Just have Jess and leave Starboy out entirely
2). Make this two different movies, because this kinda feels like two different movies mashed together. Miss Martian feels like she belongs in JLU (I could easily see her teaming up with Green Arrow and Supergirl or Stargirl - come to think of it, I wonder if Supergirl was swapped out for her? Strange that I never thought of that) But Jess and Starboy kinda feel like they wandered in from a different movie, and I think movie could have been the DC animated extended movies, since the Johns run of Justice League comics were where Jess was created in the first place. Their movie would probably have been much worse for it, but the JLU movie IMO could have better for it.
So anyway:
DC has announced another animated movie: Justice Society of America: World War II.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
Ohh, I would watch the HECK out of that!
Don't get too excited there, Benton. This is still a WB project. There's still plenty of time & ways for them to hack it up. Not the least of which would be to PC the heck out of it. I'd watch it, too, but I will remain hopefully optimistic, but still prepared to be let down.
Quote from: Panther_Gunn on January 09, 2021, 07:55:19 AM
Don't get too excited there, Benton. This is still a WB project. There's still plenty of time & ways for them to hack it up.
As I (and Tom, and Benton) can attest, this is true.
QuoteNot the least of which would be to PC the heck out of it. I'd watch it, too, but I will remain hopefully optimistic, but still prepared to be let down.
Not even remotely where my mind was going......
Yeah, DC is so known for delicate sensibilties, considering this sucker only got greenlit because they wrapped out about 10 years of connected stories and long-form investment (for me and Tom anyway) with a 2-hour snuff film filled to the brim with explicit violence and salty language with all the main characters relegated to glorified cameos and pretended it was Avengers Endgame.
The age old question for the philosophers....what's more offensive, seeing Starfire's cleavage, or seeing the gooey red stuff inside her you're not suppose to be able to see?
The film could be 3 hours of the cast reading Nazi propaganda and furiously debating its merits and it wouldn't have a snowball's chance of being half as offensive as the last offensive animated feature they released.
[EDIT WHOAH, you know what? I have to take that back. Batman: Death in the Family, which is about the death of the second Robin, was the last movie with edgy content. Sorry, my bad. That movie DOES have disturbing violent content, but that's the only specific thing it has in common with Apocalypse War. Because then, it would in fact be ABOUT something other than securing a hard R rating and being able to say "Ya ain't getting that from a Marvel movie."
I mean granted, World War II means Nazis, but if the "worst" they do is be Captain America: the first Avenger and just make it a Wolfenstein movie with Cap in it (literally what I compared it to when I walked out of the theatre) and namedrop the actual Nazis like once or twice, I don't see that as much to complain about.
Here's the sitch: (https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/movies/Justice-Society-World-War-II/)
-I assume we have the Stargirl television show to thank for DC greenlighting this sucker, which sounds good to me, because I really enjoyed Stargirl.
See DC? This is how who you do it. You use your characters, so you can grow your characters, and then you can sell your characters. And I know you know that because you know who Harley Quinn and Deadpool are.
And the fact that you guys (DC/WB) have your heads somewhere unpleasant darn near 24/7 365 is the reason something like this project falling out of the digital sky feels like a pot of gold.
-This thing looks like it might have a Darwin Cooke-inspired look to it. Neat stuff.
-Our cast includes Wonder Woman (listed as "Diana Prince" - not Hippolyta eh?) voiced by Stana Catic. The main thing I know about her in this context is that she voiced Talia Al Ghul in the Batman Arkham video games.
-Flash (Barry Allen) played by Matt Bomer. He voiced Superman in a movie a few years back and far more recently is Negative Man in the excellent live action Doom Patrol series. IMO Larry is the weakest member in the cast, but he's still quite good because Doom Patrol was a show where there
were no weak links -- in season one anyway. I'm curious if there's going to be some time travel in this. I mean, that tracks. If DC puts some people in here that they actually make effort in, that makes the project less risky. Case in point, if someone told me Stargirl being featured quite often on the cartoon Justice League Action had some influence on the Stargirl live action television show being made, I would not call them a liar.
-Black Canary, voiced by Elysia Rotaru. She is a Vancouver based actress who played a not-terribly important supporting character on Arrow and voiced a few Capcom characters in a mobile game, and subbed for a Star Wars character in a Lego cartoon that had different voice actors for the characters in question.
-Steve Trevor voiced by CHRIS DIAMANTOPOULOS - a voice actor who played Green Arrow several times. He's similar to the guy who played him (Ollie, that is) in Justice League Unlimited. I've seen all the stuff that had him in Green Arrow, he's pretty solid.
-Hawkman and Dr. Fate, Hourman voiced by Matthew Mercer. Mercer's reliably good. I don't know a lot about Hourman personality and history wise so I can't comment on this is specifically appropriate casting.
-Jay Garrick, Iris West and Aquaman.
Either a bunch of these characters just live during WWII, there's time travel, or there's a story that will span multiple time periods.
Seems pretty cool. And it's so refreshing to see something like this and one less project with Batman or Superman.
I knew that after Apocalypse War wrapped up their animated movie universe that they'd have to just make movies about something else and exactly what they were going to be putting out would be figured out one by one. The other thing coming out right now is a Batman movie that's Power Man and Iron Fist - except it's Richard Dragon and Bronze Tiger. I saw the trailer and it's exactly what it sounds like - a movie made to look and sound like a cheesy martial arts flick from the 70's.
I knew it wouldn't be long before we got something like these - they basically had to. We already got a completely skippable Superman origin movie that has exactly 3 characters in it that make it marginally interesting.
QuoteThe film could be 3 hours of the cast reading Nazi propaganda and furiously debating its merits and it wouldn't have a snowball's chance of being half as offensive as the last offensive animated feature they released.
The movie end with the Justice Society watching the news. Mournful music plays as the camera zooms out and we hear Hawkman say: You know Jay,maybe we fought for the wrong side. 🥁 🥁
And it still wouldn't be as bad as Killing Joke.
DC does some stupid stuff, and often has trouble getting in touch with their own audience, but that would almost certainly never happen.
I don't think DC would put out a JSA movie with art that looks like Darwyn Cooke style art and compromise it in any way like that.
Red Son is a movie about Superman being raised by the Soviets, and it has a happy ending.
Mind you, the animated movie changed things, and one of the things they was changed resulting in Red Son Superman being more villainous at the midway point or so (he gets to a better place by the end)
In fairness, the tweaks to the ending are an itty bit political in a way the comic was not.
And fair's fair, Superman: Man of Tomorrow was a mostly wholesome movie (though as I said in my mini review, Lex does get political for a hot minute early in the film, but that's about it)
And your comparison to Killing Joke is definitely subjective. I mean, it's an explicitly canon story and there are consequences and repercussions to it. If this is a standalone film, they could do what ever they want and never have to show what happens next.
Anyway, I went to an extreme to stress a point, and that was wrong of me, I apologize. I'm gonna specifically make an attempt to be better.
Here's the answer I SHOULD have said.
QuoteDon't get too excited there, Benton. This is still a WB project. There's still plenty of time & ways for them to hack it up. Not the least of which would be to PC the heck out of it. I'd watch it, too, but I will remain hopefully optimistic, but still prepared to be let down.
You are correct that DC could find a way to foul on it or make it worse than it could be. We don't know yet, and there isn't a trailer. As for "Not the least of which" I would say I disagree on that part. I'd even go so fair as to say it's objectively wrong. DC tends to go to the violent well with their animated features (since, as we covered with their violent Batman/TMNT crossover animation, they're selling it to adult fans with disposable income who be neutral or positive to such content) But I don't think they push an ideology often with these, or perhaps not intentionally.
"I will remain hopefully optimistic, but still prepared to be let down." Well, maybe we should expect something different, because a movie about the JSA IS something different. That 15-movie set was presumably selling to an audience that was already opting in, so this might have different goals and meet a different audience.
Red Son, the comic anyway, is a story about the sway of living under the Soviets, and yet it's probably the most tasteful thing Mark Miller's ever written that I'm aware of that wasn't specifically written for the younger set.
I suggest you try to keep a more open mind until the trailer comes out. If there's something in there that we can and think might be a sign that DC will make this weaker in any way, we'll point it out. I'll most likely be the first to talk about it here.
If I were a betting man, I'd argue DC is more likely to push violence here than ideology. To kinda bring it home, violence is easy for DC. All that thinking business is the tricky part. Heck, that particular film I mentioned earlier likely had a script with less dialogue in spots than the scripts for a lot of other animated features they've done.
Alright, to all mysteries, clues. 2 minutes on google I found the content rating. PG-13 for violence and some bloody images.
For comparison, Batman vs TMNT was PG-13 for fantasy violence and it included decapitations and a character getting a throwing star to the head, among other things.
Batman: Bad Blood, arguably the most violent PG-13 film in the 15-movie set, was PG-3 for "violence throughout" and included, among a few other things, a notable Batman villain's head exploding.
So based on the clues, I'd say either they've changed the content labels as they go, or the JSA movie will as violent or more violent than the two films I just mentioned.
Interestingly, the other new one, Batman: Soul of the Dragon, has an R rating for violence. The rating went up, but the description is less detailed.
Back to JSA: there were no content warnings for sexual content, and quite a few of those films have innuendoes and such.
Pushing an ideology can mean many things, and many of those things will not be reflected in any way in a content rating. They could also talk about the story in an interview.
Personally I don't think a JSA WW 2 with Cooke-style art needs "bloody images". There's no reason they can't make that movie and make it classier than it.
Many of DC's best animated projects are ones that didn't have that level of violence. The movie revival of the Justice League cartoon, for it's positives and negatives, wasn't better for having swearing and some extra violence, and arguably would have better without it, because then you can show it to your kids and it won't have the kind of discontent where it doesn't entirely feel like a JLU movie (that is an issue, for more reasons than that)
Batman and Harley was directly based on Batman TAS, and was presumably canon, and it was chock full of sexual content, and some vulgarity, and it was in no way better than the majority of Batman TAS output (one could easily argue every single episode of TAS was better than it; for one thing I said they artificially padded the length.)
Funny thing is, DC's putting out a bunch of these movies for years, and almost none of these ones you could show your kids. Oh well. I guess that's one for the parents and guardians and such.
Young Justice was a kid show cancelled because the toy line didn't sell (or so we were told) and it was revived as a direct story continuation that you can't show your kids because it's not kid friendly anymore. I have said many times on here I greatly prefer the first two seasons. If you're already making violent movies in the movie line, you don't have change the kid friendly stuff to make it less kid friendly. If it's a great show we watched years ago and we like the new one, I assume many of us won't mind either way.
Anyway, Soul of the Dragon is described as an "Elseworlds tale" but with that 15-movie set over, don't all their animated movies going forward qualify as an "Elseworlds" tale? If they're all Elseworlds, what is the world for which this is something else? Ah well.
NOW, that, being said...
The thing I wanted to take back was the crack about the JSA reading Nazi propaganda for 3 hours. That was gross and uncalled for. That one part.
Panther Gunn, if you believe DC are going the make movie too PC, and that's the thing they're MOST likely to do to it, I'm curious if you know exactly HOW violent the movie I described was and in what specific ways. It's on Youtube, so you can totally check out the violent scenes very quickly if you're interested.
I don't expect anything like that in the movie ofc,I was exaggerating for comedic purposes.
I meant the Killing Joke movie,since that just sucked. Im behind on the whole series,so they probably did something worse in the meantime.
Oh, the movie, Ok, you know what?
Fair enough, in the case of the prologue. And yet, that movie STILL had added a mid credits scene where Barbara becomes Oracle.
DC never put out a follow up to that, but they still put in the scene anyway, and that's probably the only new scene I specifically liked. That 100% should have been in there.
I still maintain that DC should have made the prologue a story about Batgirl and/or Batman foiling a Joker scheme. And it's even more disappointing that they didn't, since, as I told you once, IICR, DC once put a Barbara Gordon one-shot of literally that, and it featured Barbara being worried about being shot by gunfire as deliberate reference to Killing Joke.
I feel confident if that was the prologue the film got, the reception would have been more positive.
QuoteIm behind on the whole series,so they probably did something worse in the meantime.
If you're interested, you can always read the rather explicit, literally gory details me and Tom has discussed.
Quote from: Panther_Gunn on January 09, 2021, 07:55:19 AM
Don't get too excited there, Benton. This is still a WB project. There's still plenty of time & ways for them to hack it up. Not the least of which would be to PC the heck out of it. I'd watch it, too, but I will remain hopefully optimistic, but still prepared to be let down.
Gah, that's very, very true. Well, I'll be cautiously optimistic as well.
Urg....I don't like the looks of that art. If it were Darwyn Cooke-inspired, I'd LOVE it, but that just looks bad.
I'm also not thrilled with the team. I love a lot of those characters, but we've seen almost all of them get plenty of love in media (and I prefer my JSA to be it's own thing). Why not do a JSA story with the lesser-knowns who you could do more with? Give me a story with Mr. Terrific, Hourman (glad he's in it), the Atom, Starman, Sandman, Amazing Man, and those kinds of characters, and I'd be all over it.
Well darn. I'm much less excited than I was.
Yeah, I have zero interest in the 'sex and violence' to be 'grown up' mindset of the modern movies.
Quote from: BentonGrey on January 09, 2021, 04:42:11 PM
Quote from: Panther_Gunn on January 09, 2021, 07:55:19 AM
Don't get too excited there, Benton. This is still a WB project. There's still plenty of time & ways for them to hack it up. Not the least of which would be to PC the heck out of it. I'd watch it, too, but I will remain hopefully optimistic, but still prepared to be let down.
Urg....I don't like the looks of that art. If it were Darwyn Cooke-inspired, I'd LOVE it, but that just looks bad.
I'd argue that DC's track record with the visuals for animated projects not using the Young Justice style they used in the Justice League: War set have, in many cases, been worse than they could or short be, Which sometimes makes me wonder if DC WB have any strong sense of how to make these things. I know it's not anime or Transformers but surely one of the biggest entertainment company on the planet can make movies featuring their biggest characters and IPs look prettier.
Speaking of looking pretty and Transformers, I have now seen the new Beast Wars stuff, and while I wouldn't dare spoil it, what I saw brought myself and other BW fans to tears because of how good it looked. Unfortunately I'm absolutely
dreading finding out what the BW characters are going to
sound like.
Killing Joke, right from the trailers, was a weak attempt to recreate Brian Bolland's art from the comic. It doesn't look that much like the comic, or particularly good in its own right.
Looking back at Superman/Batman: Public Enemies and it's sequel Superman/Batman: Apocalypse, I was surprised to see how ugly and unappealing their art styles were (one could, and did, argue that this was the result of trying to match the style of the artists who did the comics those movies were based on) Based on memory, I'm certain their art styles didn't bother me at the time but do now.
Superman vs the Elite is a bit blocky and ugly but not
too bad IMO. I think it's based on the artist on the comics it's based on too, but I have not yet read that one (it's on the list)
The Turtles specifically looked ugly in Batman/TMNT, but the Turtles look ugly in a rather large concentration of the content put out under the Nick/Paramount era (such as the two new live action movies, and a very large concentration of the IDW comic books)
As I've mentioned above, if nothing else, in Justice League vs the Fatal Five, despite being a JLU movie in the Bruce Timm style, Ms. Martian looks like she was piped in from a different DC animation with a slightly different art style. I genuinely believe if she was in the original JLU cartoon, her face would have looked noticeably different and simpler.
On that note, this is likely the reason why quite a few of these movies (at least the ones Timm and co directly worked on, and the ones that were revisiting earlier iterations) use the Timm style, and I find it usually looks better than a lot of the others. It's clean, simple, minimalist, consistent (something early Batman TAS were not) evergreen (that means applicable to many other things) almost certainly cheaper and easier to animate. The earlier seasons of Batman: TAS that most hardcore fans seem to prefer had a much more detailed, less minimalized and blocky style.
Speaking of which, now that I've run of out of JLU episodes to rewatch I'm currently rewatching more of Batman TAS (for the record, every episode is arguably better for the Killing Joke prologue as well, but that's probably an unfair comparison) and I'm sorry guys. Yes, the animation isn't as nice to look at, but IMO (I've never loved BATMAN TAS, a show who tie-in comic digital collections call "the greatest animated series of all time". It's a good show, no doubt, but it's a little episodic and the earlier seasons are a mixed bag in terms of episodes) the actual STORIES of "The New Batman Adventures" are without a doubt the best season. When I was going over the episode list I realized that depending on whether or not you consider Calendar Girl an adaptation of Calendar Man (and either way, that episode hints at Batman's age, something I've always remembered it for) there's not a single "filler" episode in it. Unless I forgot one somewhere, every single episode in it features a classic Batman villain (including the debut of Firefly), many of these episodes are solid classics (though I just rewatched "Girl's Night Out" the other night and it surprisingly doesn't hold up as well as I thought it would. It's strangely dull and slow paced in spots, and I'm curious how the voice directing for that episode went, Livewire and the rest of the characters in it sound weirdly off their game) and it features, among other episodes, "Over the Edge", which I consider the best episode of the show.
So yeah, where was I? Oh yeah. One thing I'll always give Young Justice Outsiders: It LOOKS nice. Because it looks exactly like the original show. Anyway:
QuoteI'm also not thrilled with the team. I love a lot of those characters, but we've seen almost all of them get plenty of love in media (and I prefer my JSA to be it's own thing). Why not do a JSA story with the lesser-knowns who you could do more with? Give me a story with Mr. Terrific, Hourman (glad he's in it), the Atom, Starman, Sandman, Amazing Man, and those kinds of characters, and I'd be all over it.
Well darn. I'm much less excited than I was.
Yeah, I have zero interest in the 'sex and violence' to be 'grown up' mindset of the modern movies.
See, this is where you and I disagree, pops. I'm one of them uncultured young folks who doesn't know the "good old days" where the books were decent (this is half sarcasm, of course) so I barely know anything about the JSA, and most of what I do know comes from supporting roles from other shows and comics. What's really helped me get into them, and I mentioned this earlier, is the Stargirl television show. (Incidentally, Tomato, if you see this post, if you haven't seen the Stargirl television show, you might like it quite a bit because in addition to all the other stuff about it that is good and sweet and wholesome, Artemis Crock (who will likely have a bigger role in it in S2), Paula and Sportsmaster are in it, and Tigress and Sportsmaster are BEASTS in it.) See, it's directly based on John's Stargirl comic, which revived the Golden Age Heroes and had whole issues talking about their history and what they are up to. Stargirl is one of those adaptations that's just faithful enough, with plot twists directly adapted, that it can directly spoil the comic book. So, since I'd already bought the digital comics, and planned to read them, I read through them very quickly and they're quite swell. The book got cancelled pretty quick, but the entire story (in particular, that of Shiv, which is a big reason I knew I had to read the rest) continues in the pages of JSA itself. So I course bought, on sale, the digital collections of Johns' entire run (the digital collections includes the minis as well, which is good, because Shiv's in them) so presumably, something before or around Stargirl S2, I will be reading what I was told at the time to be the single best book DC was publishing at the time. Looking forward to it! ^_^ (in particular, I'm curious as whether I'll have any particular feeling one way or the other about Power Girl as a character).
Anyway, what we haven't seen is the JSA in a starring role in an animation. Even if the roster isn't your cup of tea, as I said before, it's certainly a refreshing change of pace. I'll likely watch it when it airs on Teletoon in about 4-6 months after it's released, but I can't imagine it not being more interesting than that Superman reboot I just watched.
QuoteYeah, I have zero interest in the 'sex and violence' to be 'grown up' mindset of the modern movies.
I think it depends on the movie. It's kinda hard to complain about it in a film adaptation of Suicide Squad, Dark Knight Returns or Death in the Family, because those are dark violent stories. As I said, it's in no way needed in a Batman TMNT film or a JSA film, and I'd argue it's inappropriate and makes the movies a bit lesser.
If you really apply such preference with a wide brush, and would opt out of watching a flick because of that, then....that's pretty funny to me. ^_^
Because I've been mapping out what I think an entire season of a JLU revival show would be about (I'm starting to considering writing them as fanfic....), and tasteful and well handled as a lot of it would be, because I'm a morbid fellow I suppose, if the actual show came out and that was the story, there are three major stories in it I suspect you might outright refuse to watch. (For one, Superboy Prime)
Quote from: HarryTrotter on January 09, 2021, 01:45:59 PM
I don't expect anything like that in the movie ofc,I was exaggerating for comedic purposes.
I meant the Killing Joke movie,since that just sucked. Im behind on the whole series,so they probably did something worse in the meantime.
Here's a bit of extra fun. While once again failing to find a clip on YT of one of my favorite all-time Alfred moments (In Mystery of the Batwoman, Bruce dismisses a woman jumping around the city in a bat costume as some nut, to which Alfred remarks "I ain't touching that one, sir".) I landed on this other part, what was (and still probably (?) is, IMO) the best scene in the movie (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l51dZBSs12w)
At the time, it was a cute, funny and clever gag for all four characters featured in it. Now, it's aged horribly and has me shaking my head and going "Dammit Bruce Timm."
I shudder to think what would happen if Bruce Timm got a writing credit on a JLU revival. Now in fairness, Timm did not actually work on the story of MotB in any way, as far as I can tell. And yet, speaking as someone currently rewatching BTAS, am I the only one who think Barbara seems completely out of character in this scene? I'm going to choose to salvage the scene by assuming Barbara was trolling Bruce, Miss Martian style. The animation on Barbara's face doesn't really reinforce it, but that could just be a reaction to Bruce's embarrassingly unconvincing attempt to get off the phone.
Maybe stuff like this is why some prefer the safe, security blanket of nostalgia.
And yet, still better than Mask of the Phantasm (Hey look, now it's in the right thread. Aren't I a lucky duckie?)
Now on the topic of that old gag, THIS inspired sequence in the otherwise not particularly good "Batman & Harley Quinn" has a twist I don't think I've even seen anywhere else - have the person on the other line call out the "going through a tunnel" excuse. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haa8GuHjm10)
I got around to Batman vs TMNT and its actually pretty good. I kinda wish they used the Nickleodon voices since the turtles personalities and body types are clearly based on the 2012 version. Also,Troy Baker is doing a Kevin Conroy impression,right?
"Gotham is basically New York."
"Does NY have blimps?! What are they even for?!"
This was an odd mix of styles. With Turtles being Nick-like,Shredder and Stockman looking like their 80's versions,and Batfamily reminding me of The New Batman Adventures.
As I've mentioned before, they were forbidden from using returning voices for the TMNT. As for Troy Baker as Batman. More or less, though he dips into a bit of a Will Arnett-style in the Lego content he's in.
I assumed it was the licencing issue. I noticed some mutations were changed from the comic. Like Bane is a leopard instead of an elephant.
Batman Hush was okay. Which probably makes it the best Batman movie in this universe. The new twist works for this continuity.
I assumed it was an attempt to reduce the chances that kids would mistake this for "their" Turtles.
The changes to the mutations were interesting. Poison Ivy being either a Preying Mantis or a Venus Flytrap - either totally work.
Mr. Freeze as a Polar Bear - very appropriate. Joker as a cobra is pretty cool.
Possible,but again,they look and act like the Nick turtles. But okay,this is clearly its own universe. And I want to see more of it.
Death of Superman and Reign of Superman. I still prefer Doomsday, but its passable. Very close to the original story but fitting into this continuity. Big thing being that Darkseid is behind everything. Well,they were building him up for the past 7-8 years,so ofc he is.
And now to end this universe with what basically seems to be Flashpoint 2.0.
Quote from: HarryTrotter on January 16, 2021, 07:06:08 PM
Possible,but again,they look and act like the Nick turtles. But okay,this is clearly its own universe. And I want to see more of it.
I file that under a Nick/Paramount problem. For...some reason, they're really hung up on Fred Wolfe TMNT nostalgia and don't seem to understand that there were indeed other incarnations of the property that people have a fondness for and that not every version of TMNT should fit into that mold.
QuoteDeath of Superman and Reign of Superman. I still prefer Doomsday, but its passable. Very close to the original story but fitting into this continuity. Big thing being that Darkseid is behind everything. Well,they were building him up for the past 7-8 years,so ofc he is.
And now to end this universe with what basically seems to be Flashpoint 2.0.
I've forgot to mention, as for the "best" Batman movie in this set, IMO it depends on how much you like Damien. If you're like me and you love that little brat, the movies starring him are the best ones, though if I'm fair, each one is only like HALF a good movie.
Which is a good segue to:
As I've said before, Death of Superman, Reign of Supermen, and Apocalypse War all have this weird problem I've repeatedly called "they need better writing." Everything should work on paper, and you can tell they're making an effort, but for some reason they're flat when they should be thrilling. IMO Death of Superman was the best one in that area. Superman Doomsday isn't exactly more faithful, but it has more energy.
As for Flashpoint 2.0. Oh boy, you enjoy THAT hot mess. And while you're doing so, make sure to glance at its Rotten Tomatoes score so you can further weep for humanity.
100%/91%...this is why I don't trust average scores. The movie itself sucks. Its like Flashpoint with added gruesome deaths from the Injustice comic. Does DC hate its characters or what?
Etrigan only shows up when they are about to reboot a universe. He needs a better agent.
My running theory isn't that DC hates its characters, they're just dumb. Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can easily be attributed to stupidity."
I think WB started making Scorpions Revenge and never stopped.
Batman Soul of the Dragon- thats actually a 70's kung-fu movie starring Bruce Lee as Richard Dragon. Which actually works.
I'll probably give Soul of the Dragon a watch on tv when it comes on in a few months. Unless I look it up and find out there's something really neat in it that makes me want to get to it sooner than that.
I liked Scorpion's Revenge. Johnny Cage stole the show in it. Would watch another one (and they just announced they're doing one)
Now, at the risk of being overly literal, that flick was released so close to Apocalypse War, that it wasn't likely it rubbed off on them, but one can simply look at the Apocalypse War as the punchline to the joke that is DC's increasingly unhealthy obsession with violence in gore in otherwise (mostly) straightforward superhero narratives.
As soon as everyone starts getting dismembered, you know this whole thing will be reset at the end. Actually,as soon as the timeskip happens,you know there will be time travel involved. But it actually end with John Constantine saying: Look Flash,we need you to do another Flashpoint because we effed up...I would have respected it more if it ended with Superman waking up and saying it was all a dream.
Yup, me and Tom put the flick through its paces for exactly that about half a year ago.
Superman Man of tomorrow- its an okay origin story. The artstyle looks very much like Archer,which I found distracting.
Later this year we should also get the 2-part Batman The Long Halloween. That should be interesting,as long as they don't try adding to it.
Long Halloween was quite good. I'd be much more interested in an adaptation of that story than I was of the Killing Joke, which I'll be happy never to read again.
In general,I think the straight adaptations ended up pretty good. I liked Year One and DKR movies better then the original comics. But when the movies tried to add their own things,like in the Killing Joke,thats when it goes off the rails.
I also liked Year One and like DKR more than the original comic. As for Long Halloween, I've only read a freebie of the first issue, and otherwise never bothered with it. The art style didn't appeal to me, and I'm not entirely decided whether I'm going to bother with the rest before watching an animated movie of it.
Art style isn't great, but it's a good story.
Yeah, Year One was good, and DKR seemed pretty good. But both of those are good stories to begin with.
But DC could never leave well enough alone,so they will continue to tag them with sequels for all eternity.
Oh yeah,I recently rewatched Batman vs Dracula and remembered its a sequel to The Batman. Which was a decent series,judging from the dozen or so episode I actually watched. It wasn't Batman TAS,but nothing will ever be. Which kinda makes me wonder how would Batman VS Dracula look in that universe.
Quote from: BentonGrey on January 21, 2021, 04:08:01 AM
Art style isn't great, but it's a good story.
Considering how much I enjoyed Red Son, and how much more I got out of the experience of watching the animated movie because I could compare the two (book was better, much better), and considering I had a similar experience with Stargirl, I think I will grab a digital collection of Long Halloween when it goes on sale on your recommendation and give it a once-over before the movie comes out.
QuoteYeah, Year One was good, and DKR seemed pretty good. But both of those are good stories to begin with.
See, I read DKR WAY too late, so I got almost nothing out of it. The story was just ok for me and the chicken-scratch editorial cartoon drawings really were a turn off for me. Which is a big part of why I enjoyed the unique elements of the animated film so much.
Mind you, DKR is still a masterpiece compared to the embarrassing joke that is DK2 and ASBAR, but I digress
Quote from: HarryTrotter on January 21, 2021, 08:06:53 PM
But DC could never leave well enough alone,so they will continue to tag them with sequels for all eternity.
I think it could be kinda cool if DC did an animated movie or that's a continuation to a story from the comics. Kinda like the HBO Watchmen, if you will. A unique sequel to DKR that wasn't terrible could have been neat, and I think them NOT doing an animated movie with Oracle as a followup to the post-credit scene in Killing Joke was a missed opportunity (on the plus side, we're getting that in Titans, so cool) Anyway...
QuoteOh yeah,I recently rewatched Batman vs Dracula and remembered its a sequel to The Batman. Which was a decent series,judging from the dozen or so episode I actually watched. It wasn't Batman TAS,but nothing will ever be. Which kinda makes me wonder how would Batman VS Dracula look in that universe.
I've always been an advocate for "The Batman" (I also mentioned The Batman vs Dracula briefly when giving my thoughts on Mask of the Phantasm). It may make me something of an outcast and contrarian (per usual) but I never felt the need to bash it for not being Batman TAS (which seemed to be the main issue people had with it) and I had fun with it and appreciated that it dabbled in serialized storytelling a fair bit. I've always found it surprising how few Batman cartoons went for that (Beware the Batman did, but I bet you all forgot that show existed?)
But anyway, this is a fantastic opportunity to segue to some recent news (an as-yet unconfirmed report for now, actually) I've been dying to share with you all...
Batman the Animated Series reportedly to get a revival on HBO Max. (https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/batman-the-animated-series-sequel-hbo-max/)
IT BEGIIIIINS! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEb_BV5TAfA)
There's a fan made audio play version of the long halloween that's up on youtube that's pretty good. Pulled it up to scratch the itch to re-read it when the project was announced. Dunno when I'll watch the movie version... I love the story, but Loeb... Ugh I've come to hate the man, and I can't stomach the idea that even one cent of my money goes to him if I purchase.
QuoteDunno when I'll watch the movie version... I love the story, but Loeb... Ugh I've come to hate the man, and I can't stomach the idea that even one cent of my money goes to him if I purchase.
The man or his work? I know Loeb's gotten a bad reputation as a writer in the last decade or so, but he's been attached to so many projects that a hard boycott on his work can cut you out of a lot (for example, he was involved in the Marvel Netflix shows). Me personally I've never hated his work, even Ultimatum, which is a bad story for sure, but it was the Ultimate line so perhaps that level of attachment just wasn't just there. In any case, he did create Sam Alexander, who I like, and his older work (for DC in this case) is DC, so I can view it as simply buying some DC and not him.
If I could buy Empyre, which was co-written by Dan Slott, someone I swore I'd never buy anything from again, I'm personally not going to feel bad for buying a reprint of an old Jeph Loeb story.
In any case, surely the movie will come to DC Universe/HBO Max. Or in my case it'll air on Canadian tv about half a year later or so.
It's because of the Netflix shows I have a problem with him. Apparently, he mandated that they stop focusing on several characters in Daredevil and Iron Fist because "Nobody cares about Chinese people and Asian people." and was directly responsible for the "Danny MUST be a white savior" thing (which I don't hate, but in context of the statement... ngl, it's kinda ick) I also generally have not liked the vast majority of his work on both Marvel TV (where he was often a stooge for Perlmutter) or in Marvel comics.
And I know, it's an empty thing and I'm probably overstating things. But one of the things the film is being advertised on is specifically "this is that great Batman story written by Marvel's TV guy, who's working for us now!" completely ignoring that many of the worst aspects of those shows all trace back to him, which puts me off the whole project, despite the fact that I do love TLH.
Like, I'm sure it'll be ok. I don't know how well the story will translate, even over two parts (it's literally a story stretched across a year of actual in universe time) but it's also pretty straightforward.
Judging by Marvels cartoons,Loeb was always loyal to DC.
As for the sequels...DKR was perfectly fine on its own IMO. This goes double for Watchmen. But DC has been milking them for decades. Hbo show is one of the worst examples of that. Just slap "Watchmen" on any unrelated cr@p to get some legitimacy.
Quote from: HarryTrotter on January 22, 2021, 06:30:06 AM
Judging by Marvels cartoons,Loeb was always loyal to DC.
Okay.....
that's funny, ha! :D
It's funny, but I can't say I agree with it. Yes, Loeb torpedoed Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, but each of the shows made by him since (Ultimate Spider-Man, Avengers Assemble, Hulk, Guardians and Marvel's Spider-Man) either got steadily better as they went, or in the case of MSM, was good throughout (I haven't seen S3 yet, but I'm sure it's good). See, I can say that because I've actually watched all of them. Hulk was the weakest, but it still had a pretty epic finale with a whole bunch of characters teaming up.
Marvel's Spider-Man, for example, did Superior Spider-Man and drastically improved on the original story by having Otto actually act like Peter to convince people, and actually become a genuine good guy over time.
For me,that whole universe had waaay more misses then hits. Ultimate Spiderman,much like TMNT 2012, had potential but wasted all of it chasing cheap laughs.
Yeah, I'm with Spade on this. While I haven't watched most of the Loeb era shows start to finish, I watched season 2 onward for USM... and yeah, I love elements of that show, but I also found it incredibly frustrating to watch. I can't imagine going back to it ever again, despite the highs it occasionally reached. Both it and Avengers Assemble were based on some pretty poor foundations, USM with it's annoying wannabe TT/anime interjections and talking down to the audience, and Avengers Assemble with it's "MCU but not" tone and style. Both admittedly got better, but I feel like that's in spite of Loeb's influence... he didn't write the shows, he just set up the foundations for them, and those foundations were terrible compared to what came before.
And none of that's going into the animation style of most of them, which tries so hard to be "realistic" and "cool" but in motion often looks dark, lifeless and boring.
I think my hatred of the terrible animation in those shows and my deep and lasting resentment that they arrived by killing a vastly better show are both well documented at this point, ha. :P
Back to the Batman TAS revival...Im cautiously optimistic. Batman and Harley Quinn didn't exactly inspire confidence. Depend how they do the "adulting" part. I would like to see villains they couldn't do back then,like Victor Zsasz,for example.
Sadly,some of the VAs passed away in the meantime,so there will be some big shoes to fill.
QuoteBack to the Batman TAS revival...Im cautiously optimistic. Batman and Harley Quinn didn't exactly inspire confidence. Depend how they do the "adulting" part. I would like to see villains they couldn't do back then,like Victor Zsasz,for example.
Sadly,some of the VAs passed away in the meantime,so there will be some big shoes to fill.
That's about the size of it. I'm fine with recastings. Batman and Harley Quinn wasn't hurt by recasting, and neither was Justice League vs the Fatal Five. Batman & Harley Quinn was hurt by rather bad padding and material that was unlike the show it was a revival of.
A Batman TAS will not be ruined by Tara Strong voicing Harley Quinn. Alfred not being voiced by Zimbalist Jr, however, would be quite sad, but we could all get used to that. He was never in the Arkham games after all.
I'm in a curious position with BTAS. I like it but never loved it, so I could look forward to this and NOT be too worried or angry at them screwing it up or compromising it.
I wouldn't be grudge them a little bit of light swearing or violence like in Fatal Five. It shouldn't be ANYTHING like B&HQ though.
What they need to do is make
Batman the Animated Series. Not some other show.
I wouldn't be opposed to tie-ins to Batman Beyond or JLU. Batman & Harley Quinn had a scene referencing the JLU and the watchtower, and it was arguably the best scene in the movie.
Girl's Night Out was a sort of crossover with Superman TAS with Livewire and Supergirl, I would never begrudge them anything like that.
I personally think it could be cool if they made it more serialized, and I imagine DC would like that prospect, but true Batman TAS purists would likely prefer it to be done-in-one and I wouldn't begrudge them that. That could still be a lot of fun.
The possibilities for this are great if DC wants to get their head out of their backside and take this seriously.
I always thought done-in-one approach was due to syndication and the production. And so the kids could tune in whenever they want. Later on,Jl and JLU were pretty linear. Each 2-parter was its own story but you had plots and subplots running from one to the next.
The digital comic sequel did Deathstroke and Azrael,that a good example of things that weren't in the cartoon that I would like to see. Suppose its too much to hope for Hitman?
Or maybe do that Death episode Dini and Gaiman wanted to do. Thats an example of what you couldn't do back then,but you could (theoretically) now on a streaming service.
QuoteI always thought done-in-one approach was due to syndication and the production. And so the kids could tune in whenever they want.
Almost certainly. Had that kind of thing on my mind recently, especially since I've been watching the original 50's run of The Twilight Zone (IT'S SO GOOD! :D)
QuoteSuppose its too much to hope for Hitman?
I don't know about that. JLU did the Suicide Squad and had Huntress fighting the mafia in JLU.
Hey so I meant to respond to this for a while, and it lined up for me to do so now.
First off, I ended up hearing what exactly Loeb said that prompted this slightly off-topic digression.
QuoteApparently, he mandated that they stop focusing on several characters in Daredevil and Iron Fist because "Nobody cares about Chinese people and Asian people." and was directly responsible for the "Danny MUST be a white savior" thing (which I don't hate, but in context of the statement... ngl, it's kinda ick)
I have now seen the original quote in full and in context, and it's nice to now have that proper context, and thus now I can say....yeah, that was incredibly stupid of Loeb to say from any way you come at it, and I do think... a bit? Less of him. I don't think I'm going to do a boycott of his work, but yeah, in that specific instance, he was really stupid.
Anyway, as for the other thing, I'm going to take a page from Tomato's page and split it into a separate thread because I have a lot to say and it will derail the thread more than it already was.
So we now return to the topic of actual DC animated movies, because I can't possibly not talk about this....the trailer to JSA is out!!!! :lol:
Well Benton, give yourself a nice tasty cookie, because you called it. It looks like hot garbage. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14I0DejYo54)
And THIS is why I say Marvel and DC's animated output looks like glorified fan projects, because this crap looks homely as hell. What in the WORLD did they do to Wonder Woman's hair and Barry's face?
Let's break it down:
1) Alright, here's the #1 positive out of the way....Wonder Woman is BADA$$ in this! Craning her neck to dodge a tank shell, giving a superspeed smackdown to some ratzis and divebombing a tank. WW's business in this! It's too bad her hair looks like the 2nd worst thing I've ever seen!
2) WW's voice in this could not possibly be more obviously based on Gal Gadot.
3) Jay Gerrick hitting a few Nazis in "super speed" at the 1:15 minute mark would be the ACTUAL worst thing I've ever seen. You're gonna tell me someone at DC looked at that and went "SHIP IT!" Yeah, Quicksilver ain't got nothing on that. Good gravy.
4) On the other hand, Black Canary fighting a giant robot octopus looks surprisingly WELL animated. Which makes me think that visually this is going to be an extremely uneven production. Unfortunately I don't think there's a drop of blood in the trailer, so our earlier discussion of this thing is pretty much moot.
Should be some kind of interesting.
Now, this part IS interesting....a number of people in the comments theorize that ol' Baza in this is actually the same Barry from The Flashpoint Paradox all the way through to Apocalypse War....which would actually be really interesting, and I think when this thing ships I'm going to read spoilers to find out if that's the case and I'll give it a rental if so because that sounds intriguing.
One thing for sure, the darkest timeline was in fact NOT the one full of Nazis in it.
I'm actually looking forward to this one. I've said before that I have a soft spot for 'legacy' characters, and that includes the beginnings of those legacies. It will be interesting to see how they explain Wonder Woman in the JSA and Wonder Woman in the Barry-Flash's JLA. Is it the same person? Is it her mother? (Like DC ret-conned it)
I don't think the animation style is .... horrible. It's not great, by any means, but I've seen ALOT worse.
A
LOT
Worse!
I do like WW's accent. And it might be due to Godat's portrayal, but it makes perfect sense. Wonder Woman is from a Grecian region, and she would have an accent.
And it's going to have Hawkman, Dr. Fate, and Hourman. Hawkman got a bit of a FUBAR intro in the DCAU, and he's never really been more then background dressing in any of the current animated movies. Dr. Fate was treated decent enough, but I want more. And this is Hourman's first animated appearance, AFAIK. Too bad they don't have Wildcat, Atom (Al Pratt), or Sandman (Wes Dobbs) included as well.
When I say it "looks like hot garbage" I do mean "look" as in the visuals. The movie itself, could indeed quite peachy-keen. Like I said, a JSA WWII movie is pretty darn refreshing right of out the old gate for how different it is than the usual DC output.
QuoteI don't think the animation style is .... horrible. It's not great, by any means, but I've seen ALOT worse.
A
LOT
Worse!
I imagine most of us have seen a lot worse, at the very least I've seen such in reviews of stuff I didn't watch in full myself. But I was hoping for something more visually pleasing and more consistent in terms of impressive sequences. There's some energy for sure (again most of the sequences involving WW and that business with Black Canary).
QuoteI do like WW's accent. And it might be due to Godat's portrayal, but it makes perfect sense. Wonder Woman is from a Grecian region, and she would have an accent.
I've probably said this before, but when I watched BVS the first time, it took me pretty much the entire movie to get used to Wonder Woman's accent because my main reference point was the JLU show and, you're right, it probably would be more accurate.
The animation looks like Venture Bros on 1/4 of its budget.
I saw people in the comments say it looks similar to Superman: Man of Tomorrow, which I don't particularly agree with, but SMOT was compared to Archer, and that show and these two movies do share a thick-outlined look that could draw that comparison.
I figured out what I want from Batman TAS continuation.
(https://i2.wp.com/comicsworthreading.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/BatmanGothamAdventures13.jpg)
The Threatening Three. Mastermind,Perfesser, and Mr. Nice.
Thing was that they are based on Mike Carlin,Archie Goodwin and Denny O'Neil. They really deserve a tribute episode.
Btw,#13 was a tribute to Archie Goodwin,and damn,it still hits. :(
https://comicsworthreading.com/2016/06/12/batman-gotham-adventures-13-made-me-cry/ (https://comicsworthreading.com/2016/06/12/batman-gotham-adventures-13-made-me-cry/)
*[img=50%] code doesn't work apparently,sorry.
Nice.
I bought the digital collections of The Batman Adventures on Comixology this past year, due to rewatching the show on Canadian reruns. I read them in bits on and off, and finished the original run and stopped there, as I wasn't sure which ones after that I wanted to get, and focuses on other newer books. Some of the earliest comics I ever had as youngling in the 90's included early issues of it, including a trade of the first 6 or so issues (featuring Joker's TV related scheme, the Scarecrow two-parter with Robin, and the Hitchcock/Citizen Kane homage) and two individual issues (Joker's comic caper and Robin vs Ventriloquist and Scarface). As such I have a nostalgic fondness for the series. Not all of the stories in it were the most interesting, but some stories, in some ways, were superior to the show. The story about whether "Harvey Dent" still resides within Two-Face is the exact kind of story I was always very disappointed was nowhere to be found in the show after Two-Face's origin (unless there's one I forgot about and missed more recently). And The one guest starring Superman was hilariously incompatible with the Timm Verse (Luthor was the version from the 90's, with the red hear and beard, and Superman had the mullet). The Mr. Freeze story in the comic version of Holiday Nights is really rather nice, and of course rendered incompatible with canon due to the stories they did do with Freeze.
I didn't know the Threating Three were in the Gotham Adventures, but it is neat to see. I read the DC wiki's trivia about the issues I read, and learned what the gag with them was, but I gotta admit, I wasn't too crazy about their stories myself.
Yesterday I figured out what I want from a Batman TAS continuation.
Guest appearances from the other shows in the Timmverse, most are which were made after Batman TAS. No brainer, should have thought of it the moment I heard the rumors of the rival.
Ideally, I want this AND Justice League both back, with the possibility of a crossover. I mean, I found out recently that Transformers Cyberverse is getting a fourth season, meaning two preexisting Transformers cartoons (it and the Netflix War for Cybertron) will actually be going on at the same time, and we already got Girl's Night Out and that episode of Superman where Superman has to stand in for Batman, so I like to think it could happen.
And Catman! :D There's a nifty story right near the end of the Batman Adventures comic run where Batman loses his memory and Catwoman convinces him to be his partner in crime, and he becomes Catman. An in-name only version of Thomas Blake appeared in an episode of The New Batman Adventures, but I want Catman.
I also wouldn't mind them bringing in some characters that were created after the show ended. But the lack of some characters ever even being implied to exist in Batman Beyond could make things tricky. Though Mystery of the Batwoman did happen.
The return of Phantasm and Batwoman could be cool.
I don't suppose the comics are considered canon.
The possibility of a revival does make me want to read more of the tie-in comics. Maybe I should grab me some more collections on sale.
IIRC Deadshot was in JL/JLU but not Batman,so that would be one. Some villains like Zsasz never showed up(because again,a kids show),so that's an opportunity. We would probably get to its own version of Under The Red Hood. From newer villains,we have Hush ofc,Professor Pyg,Great White Shark...James Gordon Junior,The Architect...Doctor Aesop...Not the greatest lineup.but you could work with that. There is ofc,The Court of Owl,but that's been done to death in recent times.
IIRC Batman TAS never really did an evil Batman,so you could have Wraith,Prometheus or Owlman. Well,I would hate to hype myself up for something that might not even happen. (Like the Judge Dredd tv show that never was)
Quote from: HarryTrotter on February 04, 2021, 11:06:33 AM
IIRC Deadshot was in JL/JLU but not Batman
Yeah, I always loved me some Floyd Layton. How about Bruce Wayne: Murder/Bruce Wayne: Fugitive? Or No Man's Land? Azreal?
Funny thing about Deadshot, and I meant to mention this here, I was shocked and delighted to learn recently that the tie-in comic to the Batman & Harley Quinn animated movie featured the Suicide Squad and Harley getting brought into their ranks. How cool! I haven't seen the pages, but I'll have to check it out!
QuoteWe would probably get to its own version of Under The Red Hood.
I read that the reason we got a kinda Jason/Tim hybrid was because they would never have been able to do the crowbar scene or the death of Jason Todd in the show. To which my answer would be: "Then why not just do Jason Todd and not kill him off?" It's like they thought the only thing interesting about the character before the Red Hood was how he died (and yes, I'm aware that's a total straight line).
As for the others, I was thinking good guy Batman characters, but I'm liking your suggestions, actually...
QuoteJames Gordon Junior,
James Gordon Junior in Batman TAS, now that would be interesting.
How about the Flamingo? :D
Oberon Sexton? Zur En Arh? Doctor Daedalus? Black Glove including Dr. Hurt and Jezebel Jet?
BLACK MASK!!! :D
QuoteThe Architect...
Architect feels very appropriate for Batman TAS. A villain who represents Scott Snyder's appreciation for Gotham as a character in itself. I feel like that would be right at home for BTAS.
QuoteThere is ofc,The Court of Owl,but that's been done to death in recent times.
I would argue the Court has never been done full justice outside the comics. The upcoming video game looks like it'll the one to pull it off IMO. Batman vs Robin came close, but they changed Talon and basically made him Nobody from Tomasi's Batman & Robin (who could also be a good villain to bring in)
QuoteIIRC Batman TAS never really did an evil Batman,so you could have Wraith,Prometheus or Owlman.
Don't forget Killer Moth! ^_^ The comic book Batgirl Year One did posit him as a kind of early nemesis for the Barbara Gordon Batgirl, and Babs is indeed a big part of Batman TAS.
Oh, Anarky! Who did indeed appear in The Batman Adventures.
Now me, personally, even with my above comment about Batman Beyond....I was thinking Batman allies. But given JLU, it would probably be best to not balloon the cast, and make the villains something you can shuffle in and out.
Now this makes me of a really nifty angle. Bring back Batman AND JLU, and have JLU be the show with the serialized storytelling and the massive fluid cast, and Batman the go-to source for more accessible self-contained stories with a more lean, focused cast.
I'm almost always more a fan of serialized storytelling, and it's certainly in vogue these days (thought I love Batman Beyond) but it would be a great way to give both shows its own flavor.
Also I want the Bat-Embargo and any variation of it that might impact the show Thanos-snapped out of existence. Audiences are not idiots. They understand full well there are multiple versions of these characters. Especially after Crisis and the multiple different tv iterations of Teen Titans/Titans.
Now another question would be, should the revival have such a heavy emphasis on Batgirl, Robin and sometimes Nightwing, or it should it become more Batman-centric and reduce the number of times Batgirl and Robin appear to something closer to S1 of Batman TAS? I think you know full well my stance (I'd want them to be in most of the episodes, but not necessarily all) but this IS supposed to be a revival of Batman: TAS, so, as I said before, it should probably be what fans who loved BTAS more than I would want and enjoy.
IIRC both Gotham Adventures and the recent The Adventures Continue did their own versions of Under The Red Hood. Funny that two sequel comics did the same thing. Or not,since its kind of an obvious route to take.
I mentioned Azrael and Deathstroke before. Thou I could really do without Slade for a while.
I was trying to remember villains introduced after 2000 or so. I know Morrison threw in like 50 new ones in Batman #666...but not a whole lot of then with staying power,it seems. Flamingo,anyone?
Huh,they never did Black Mask...that's a obvious shoe-in.
Again,serialization doesn't mean it has to be 24; you can have separate cases and still have plots carrying over from an episode to the next one. Or idk,have conspiracy and standalone episodes like X-files or Ghost In The Shell. :)
As for allies,I would be fine with either approach. I would like a few team-up episodes with the broader DCU.
They're airing JL vs the Fatal Five tonight, and I've got it on right now. It's still a nice, cozy little movie, but I wanted to take the opportunity to share this.
I knew full well the next time I watched this, I was putting this on after the first scene or two. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKrWI4nISgw)
If they ever do a revival of JLU as a tv show, and I sure hope they do, I don't want a remix or a quick logo on black. I want a variation on this every week.
So rewatching it, I guess I'm right back to last year. Because I'm once again writing my notes as I go.
I double checked Jessica Cruz's page on the DC wiki since I'd forgotten (I'd read Johns' run of JL years ago and forgot the details) and I can now appreciate that Jess' origin story and the cause of her anxiety is directly based on the comics. That's a nice touch.
I'm...iffy on Wonder Woman attacking Jess in order to motivate Jess into action. I get the result she was going for and no doubt she wasn't going to actually hurt her, but I'm unable to decide if I think it's in character for WW, even the often agitated and less compassionate Diana of JLU this is partially based on a Geoff Johns story, and Johns was known for making WW especailly aggro. If I had to guess, I'd say having the returning voices helps make things feel consistant, whether they actually are or not.
Miss Martian's still the best in this. I was worried there weren't any more great lines from her that I'd forgotten in a year. There are. Yay.
"I'm Miss Martian, jacka$$".
I also have to take back something I said back in December. The "lunatic" Batman was bringing into Arkham wasn't Starboy, it was Bloodsport, a very violent, very deranged conspiracy nut. Criticism withdrawn.
I still don't like that 1) Starboy's in Arkham and 2. That Arkham looks more like an actual hospital than it's ever looked in anything ever because they want to mush real life in with the superhero stuff in an attempt to make it work. Arkham is where you put people like, well, Two-Face, Harley and Ivy, who actually appear in this movie. Starboy's powerful and erratic, but he's hardly a Batman villain.
*Batman says he dropped off Starboy 10 months ago*
Wait....10 MONTHS? What was the entire cast of this movie DOING for almost a YEAR?
*Fatal Five introduces themselves* "and this is...."
WW: Dead Man Walking?
Don't remember Diana being so kill crazy in JLU. It's been a few years since I've seen the first two Justice League seasons, maybe if I watched them again I'd think differently.
Going back to the original announcement of this movie, they wanted a team of distinctive villains, hence the Fatal Five. And you know what? I didn't originally comment on them at all, but they are good villains. It's fun to watch the JLU fight these guys, especially since this being a movie and not just three episodes of the show means there's presumably a bit more money to spend and/or lead time and thus the animation has a noticeable amount more gusto. Batman also looks especially well drawn in this, with nice detailing on his cape.
Here's another thing that's bugged me. What kind of fast food chain sells PUDDING with a burger and drink? The only reason they did that was for the "Arkham had pudding" gag. Just something that bothers me.
Miss Martian: "Flying cars. I guess the movies got something right." Gosh darn it MM, WHAT IS YOUR ORIGIN? Why does this movie tempt me so?!
Rewatching this movie.....the JL aren't actually in it THAT much. But a little JLU (and Miss Martian) goes a LONG way, and I already liked Jessica Cruz before they even started making this thing, so that probably counted for a lot.
I mentioned the nostalgic music in my original review, but I notice on a rewatch that it plays the Batman TAS music. Not the Danny Elfman theme, the theme music that would play in an episode of Batman TAS when Batman would show up. I can't remember if that music ever played in Justice League or JLU before this. I know for a fact the Superman TAS theme played in Twilight when Superman has his confrontation with Darkside near the end.
I may have missed something notable the first time I watched this. MM takes them inside Starboy's mind and we see Saturn Girl tell Starboy that if he's off his future meds for too long, it'll stop working period. Which is what happened in the story.
So I guess I have to take back that ENTIRE rant I had in December, because the movie covered their tracks on that, and I apparently missed that line or forgot (and the fact that I wrote the original review/comments the night I watched the flick makes it even sloppier on my part)
I still don't particularly care for the Starboy story, but they are promoting the Legion and one of the creators said Starboy's his favorite Legionaire so I'm not going to hold it against them for it. And I have to admit, I am a bit curious to look up the character on the ol' DC Wiki to see how he's been used in the comics.
The trailer for Batman: The Long Halloween is out. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ7wbwkzNS0)
I must say, I am impressed. The art style for this is again using that Archer/Venture Brothers looking style with the thick black outlines, and it looks really, really nice. Compared to Dark Knight Returns, it's smoothing out the source material's messy art style is even more substantial. Batman, Grundy and Calendar Man look good, and Joker and Catwoman look great. I find myself looking forward to seeing this, which is itself impressive, as I started reading the comic book very recently and still haven't finished the first issue. I find myself forced to concede that if the art style of the book was more appealing I probably would be getting through it faster.
Voice cast is interesting, but fairly promising. In particular Jensen Ackles is playing Batman, which is a bit odd because he of course played Red Hood in Under the Red Hood, but he sounds good in this.
Pt 1 is going to be PG-13, while Pt 2 is going to be rated R. I'm not terribly familiar with the comic story so I don't know if that's warranted based on that, but I can't say I'm fond of starting with one rating and then upping the rating for the followup.
Hmmm. On the one hand, it sort of makes sense? TLH is a story about a series of murders, and if they're covering it in equal halves the first 6 issues are pretty tame (especially since I think it includes april 1st). Still, iirc there's nothing specific about the second half of the series that I feel necessitates an R rating other than "because we can"
Real quick as an aside... I totally get not liking Tim Sale's art on the book (it's cartoonish in a way that doesn't really fit the mood of the book a lot of the time) but it grew on me. I think part of the reason I like TLH is because it's about Harvey Dent, and he's always been a favorite villain of mine.
That said, there's a pretty good fan made motion comic version on youtube, if you want to get through the original before the animated one comes out.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLP80QSKDMGerpUE2WH0TYNTzlUfWB-gcj
QuoteI totally get not liking Tim Sale's art on the book (it's cartoonish in a way that doesn't really fit the mood of the book a lot of the time) but it grew on me.
The main problem I have (which is largely not a problem with issue #1) is that the villains, particularly Joker, look hideous. Joker in particular would give the Maxx nightmares and not for the good reasons.
And even if it was the kind of exaggerated art style that I do enjoy, it doesn't particularly lend itself to an animated film, and I'm glad DC's taking a DKR approach and not doing a weaksauce middle ground like they did TKJ. The look of the movie is genuinely getting me interested.
Quoteif you want to get through the original before the animated one comes out.
If the movie comes out before I finish the comic (and it probably will) I'll put it off until right around the time it leaves the On-Demand, or whenever I finish the book. Whichever comes first. That's what I did with Red Son. I already bought the digital collection on the cheap on Comixology. Which is worth it just for the forward - which after New Teen Titans, Batman and the Outsiders, Death in the Family, Crisis, and Red Son, I should have expected by now.
Plus I don't need to worry about having one of the most famous and influential Batman stories spoiled online unless they pull a Hush or TKJ and make crap up, and I'm not particularly expecting them to.
I... Kinda hope they do, a little bit.
Spoiler
TLH is at least in part, a murder mystery, and one of the hallmarks of that sort of story is revealing the mystery at the end... And while TLH absolutely does that, the issue is that... The pieces just don't line up.
Supposedly it's Gilda Dent responsible for the initial killings, with Harvey picking up later on, by Christmas or so. But Gilda was hospital bound for the second killing, meaning Harvey had to have picked up by then... Which could be the case, it's not made clear in the epilogue because Gilda speaks as though shed been responsible for more than one killing.
My feelings on the matter go back to Batman & Catwoman Hush.
Changing the ending makes it more surprising for those who know the original story, but at that point it is no longer a faithful adaptation, and when you change stuff for an adaptation and you don't do it very, very carefully and skillfully, the holes you've left in the story add up.
"So if you write a book where the butler did it, and people on the internet figure out that the butler did it, and you change it midstream so the chambermaid did it, then YOU RUINED THE WHOLE BOOK!"
~George R. R. Martin
Here's two specific examples: Watchmen and Resident Alien.
-Watchmen, as much as I like the movie, makes less sense because they changed the method of Ozy's plan. There's no real sense of how the world leaders could fight Doc Manhatten, and Bubastis shows up despite the genetic engineering plot being completely scrubbed out.
-Resident Alien is an excellent show, but the change to Harry's transformation is a massive plot hole that stands out like a sore thumb. In the comic it's a mental illusion, but in the show we're told multiple times it's a molecular shapeshifting transformation, yet we still have 1 in 1 million people being genetically capable of seeing through it.....somehow.
I don't disagree. The issue is more about making what was *intended* clearer...
To use your analogy, the ending of TLH is like... if the butler did it, but the explanation implies the chambermaid assisted. However, we know she was tied up in the cellar at the time she was supposedly doing the helping. The pieces still line up that the butler did it, the explanation just throws a lot of unnecessary issues into the mix that don't need to be there. That's what I mean when I say I hope they fix it a little bit: make it clear that the butler did it and cut out the fluff.
Your description actually sounds quite a bit like Identity Crisis. I would imagine TLH is a lot less messy than that story is.
In this case the key phrase would in fact be "do it very carefully and skillfully."
Oh, it's far cleaner than that mess. The solution given does fit, but it requires a lot of stretching and supposes that'd be eliminated if they just cleaned up a few plot points.
Spoiler
The biggest issue I have is with the thanksgiving killing. According to Gilda, she was the one behind the first 3 killings... which works for Halloween and Christmas (one murder each, both she was reasonably able to get to and had motive for), but her being behind the Thanksgiving murder supposes she snuck out of a hospital bed covered in bandages after nearly being killed, tracked down the gang responsible, and managed to kill 5 hardened criminals with a 22 caliber gun.
That issue is eliminated if Harvey was responsible for the second Holiday murder... he'd be much more capable of taking out 5 guys than Gilda, and he wasn't stuck in the hospital at the time. It'd also make him responsible for the 2nd and 4th Holiday murders, because Two Face.
Admittedly though, that introduces the issue of him managing to take out 5 guys and then not managing to kill Alberto (the implication is that since it's Harvey's first killing as Holiday he botched the job/didn't have the stomach for it) but that can be hand waved with Alberto not being his Target and getting in the way, etc.
That's a lot of specific details. I might have to read the rest of comic and come back if I'm to have anything specific to say about that.
Here's one I totally forgot to mention - The DC animated movie of The Long Halloween will include a Losers short. That's certainly different. I watched the movie of that on Netflix last year, with Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Idris Elba, and Chris Evans - really fun movie, kinda like the A-Team.
Justice Society WW2 was actually good. Most of it is just action scenes,thou. But we saw the story about Barry going back in the past before,so not like we could do something new with it.
Also, it's listed as a standalone movie,but shares the voice actors and artstyle with Superman MoT. And end up with
Spoiler
Justice League
setup. Obvious setup is obvious.
So if this is a start of a new shared universe,Im cool with that.
Unless there are 2 Batman animated shows involving Bruce Timm coming up,what we thought is a Batman tas sequel is actually a new JJ Abrams reboot.
Yes, I did indeed see that. But Bruce Timm is involved, at least on a visual level. Design looks similar to Golden Age Batman to me. Which is appealing to me after he popped up in Generations Shattered and Generations Forged.
Considering Beware the Batman went off the air in 2014, it would be amusing if they were making up for lost time with two different shows.
It's called "Caped Crusader", because you can call it anything, as long it's Batman-related terminology and hasn't been used yet, apparently.
There is some mumble-mouthed buzzword promotion describing the show, that sounds potentially intriguing but doesn't necessarily mean anything.
The series is described by Warner as a "reimagining of the Batman mythology" that will feature "sophisticated storytelling, nuanced characters, and intense action sequences all set in a visually striking world."
That description doesn't give any concrete idea of what the show will actually be about, and there's not guarantee it will deliver on any of the quality implied by some of those words.
I saw that kind of potentially good-sounding but ineffectively vague marketing applied to another IP I'm fond of recently.
Could be neat to have a new Batman series coming out.
Im willing to give it a chance,but Jar Jar Abrams does not have a good track record with reboots.
Considering Matt Reeves is listed as another one of the producers, and he's the director the upcoming Batman movies, I don't think J.J. being involved means much of anything. It's a figurehead position, most likely. J.J.'s involved because of his other gigs for HBO Max, Justice League Dark and the Overlook Hotel series he's doing.
J.J.'s work, particularly the projects people consistently bring up, are far more the product of the writers credited to those projects.
It is my conclusion based on all available evidence J.J. will have little to no involvement with this show and his fingerprint will not be reflected in the final product. Timm is one of the producers and you can tell it will look like his work based on the promo art.
I have no particular expectations about this show whatsover. We know nothing about it, and a Batman cartoon has always risen and fallen based on the individual writing of the individual episode.
Beware was the only Batman cartoon to be serialized and it still wasn't that good. Greg Weisman's one of the consistently best showrunners in animation and his episodes of The Batman could have been written by anyone.
I don't wanna jump to conclusions. I need more intel.
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They're making an Injustice animated movie. My thoughts on it:
[offtopic]I should have seen this coming, really.
I've had a copy of the complete edition of Injustice 2 for over 2 and a half years. I should get to work playing my way through that.
Now, having not read the Injustice comic past one issue, which I did like, I can say right out of the gate, what my problem with an Injustice movie is. Outside of the fact that the general premise was played out in DC content when Injustice was a new game (something that was discussed here on FR at the time) my issue with this is that the broad premise for the fights in Injustice (a drug that gives non-powered characters super strength) is a unapologetic plot device to justify the fact that Injustice is a video game based around one-on-one fights. Unless the comic or animated film does more to get mileage out of this concept, I could do without them bothering with that and just letting the narrative play out in a more straight forward manner.
I can't say I'm thrilled at this, but DC's choices as to what to make and not make an animated movie out of in the last few years baffle and confuse me so I'll roll with it. Assault on Arkham was a Batman: Arkham series tie-in movie that was paying off a Suicide Squad tease that otherwise went nowhere, and that was actually one of my favorite DC animated movies of the last ten or so years, so we'll see. [/offtopic]
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Watched Justice Society: WWII.
[offtopic]It had a bit more to offer than I was expecting. Which is good. It went up on the on-demand a week ago and change, but I was willing to wait a bit because I wasn't sure how interesting it would be.
Movie started out pretty good but I really zoned out by the end.
Story wise, Barry's a pretty decent central protagonist. Black Canary has some solid sarcastic quips throughout.
As in the trailers and promo clips, animation is a mixed bag. Some things look really good in motion, others look somewhat lacking. The art style with it's bold black outlines is equally mixed.
The animation for super speed in particular is a mixed bag, with Barry and Jay in the movie. There's ambition in the super speed sequences, with very obvious influence being taken from the Fox X-Men movies version of Quicksilver. Soldiers are hit with shockwaves in slow motion and go flying when the perspective changes back to regular speed, but it also has a strangely underwhelming execution. Jay's incredibly underwhelming superspeed assault from the trailer is immediately followed up with a sequence that looks better. For every sequence that looks cheap, there's one that looks better, usually immediately after. It does kinda seem to me like the movie's animation was budgeted towards making sure it was most consistent during the final act.
Since Barry's the central character in this, we see him a lot, which means I have to look at his hideous cheekbones and sleepy eyes all the time. As I've mentioned when the trailer hit for this, hair cares not for our physics. WW's hair looks like a helmet painted to look like her hair, Black Canary's hair doesn't move in the motion the way it should, and Steve Trevor's bang in front of his forehead doesn't move the way it should when his head moves.
Action sequences featuring WW and other characters such as Jay beating up soldiers, seen in trailers, generally will contain more action in the final film, so it was nice to see those sequences in full.
Here's some very interesting trivia:
DC animated movie producer Butch Lukic revealed this movie is repurposed from now-defunct plans for a cancelled animated WWII-set Wonder Woman animated series that was intended for the DC Universe streaming service. The pitch was rejected as it was believed by execs that there would be no interest in any WW-centric media prior to the success of the first live action movie.
Spoiler
The movie starts out with an opening title sequence in the style of an old movie - such as one that came out in the black and white era.
We see Flash visiting Metropolis before traveling through time, and is sent there while taking part in a battle between Superman and Brainiac.
Because Jay is The Flash, Black Canary dubs Flash "Future Boy". And Wonder Woman, being overly literal, calls him that right after.
Kept out of the trailers for this movie is Aquaman and Superman. Aquaman gets brainwashed for a large chunk of the movie, while Superman is the one from Man of Tomorrow.
A time-displaced Clark Kent in this has a moustache. They make a few jokes about this. I don't know if this was meant to be a reference to the 2017 Justice League movie or not.
[/offtopic]
Returning to an earlier message I glossed over when the trailer first came out.
Quote from: NyteDragonAnd this is Hourman's first animated appearance, AFAIK.
I couldn't remember, so I looked this up. Hourman makes non-speaking cameos in several episodes of Justice League Unlimited, and has a non-speaking cameo in the opening credits of the animated movie of Justice League: New Frontier, and -more substantially - The Rex Tyler incarnation of Hourman appears in the Batman: The Brave and the Bold animated series episode "The Golden Age of Justice", voiced by Lex Lang.
So i did sit down and watch The Long Halloween Part 1 and, with one possible exception (it's not complete who knows) I thought it was a solid adaptation.
Spoiler
So for the most part the story changes I noticed were to make things fit a bit tighter (the unfortunate side effect of being a sprawling year long story is that there's a lot to cut down and condense, especially in such a way that it flows and isn't just rushing through stuff). I thought most of the bigger changes worked well, and there's so many little moments I enjoyed because i know what twists are (I believe) coming.
Also it fixes the biggest issue i have with the original mini and thank goodness.
That said, if there's a misstep in the mini, its the ending. Not the post credit, that's fine... The death of Alberto.
Look, Alberto was always a red herring. And he died at that point in the comic too... But (SPOILERS for the comic) he's not really dead, and his death wasn't witnessed. Here... He's dead. He was shot like 6 times and was chopped to pieces by a propeller, not to mention was told Batman's identity (selina just blurts it out, another misstep imo but not as annoying) so unless he actually IS Holiday in this version that's a death sentence because, y'know, gotta prevent that secret id coming out.
I dunno. It just feels... Forced to me. They did a good job of setting up clues for him, having him be apparently dead then coming back in part 2 would have potentially had a bigger impact than in the comic.
That said... I'm intrigued by the stuff with Gilda. There's some good set up there and i really want to see where it goes.
I meant to post here again so I'll touch on Long Halloween a bit. I did end up reading the TLH comic in its entirety, and I found it was good. I see why it's considered a classic. I also saw the animated movie, both parts by now, and yeah, it's pretty good. It does indeed have some alterations that really pile up by the end of pt 2. And yet the stuff that's based directly off the comic is neat. I especially like the long stretches of dialogue-heavy footage with no music playing, it really sets the tone.
Movie exclusive stuff that I found interesting:
Spoiler
The final scene with Gilda is still in it, but they change it as part of their new alterations. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Red herring or not, Alberto kinda gets screwed over in this adaptation, which is too bad, as he was an interesting character in the book.
Also Poison Ivy's role is beefed up, with her being teased in part 1's post credit scene, and a recurring bit about an entranced Bruce/Batman having a fantasy sequence. It's an embellishment, but I didn't mind it so much.
Pt 2's post credits sequence is Green Arrow and Flash (Flash being in the same style as the JSA movie) coming to the door on Halloween to see Bruce. Has me curious if that's meant to be a one-off joke or a tease for a later movie.
Another quick bit. I've been researching older DC comics recently and discovered that the "strange ritual" involving Silver Swan in Wonder Woman: Bloodlines that I talked about back when I reviewed the movie, was in fact directly based off a scene from the comics with her. So I got my answer.
Now, the next DC animated movie has been announced, and it's a curious one. A Catwoman animated movie with an anime-style look. Voice cast and cast of characters is interesting. Batwoman and Cheetah are in it, along with Solomon Grundy (Steve Blum), Black Mask (Jonathan Banks), Tobias Whale (Keith David), King Faraday (Jonathan Frakes), Talia Al Ghul (Young Justice Outsiders' Zehra Fazal, reprising the role from Batman: Death in the Family), and Kelly Hu as Cheshire (also the same as Young Justice).
Mike from Breaking Bad (Jonathan Banks) is interesting casting for Black Mask. I didn't like the casting of him as Jim Gordon in Arkham Knight for being too gruff IMO, but I could totally see his voice working for a mobster like Black Mask. In a sense, Mike kinda was a mobster. Keith David as Tobias is damn good casting. Will Riker is always a treat. And while I didn't like the overuse of Zehra Fazal in YJO, she's definitely got range. But I still haven't seen the proper version of Death in the Family yet, so I haven't heard her as Talia yet.
Curious project, but I don't know if I'd go out of my way to rent it, as I'm not a big fan of Catwoman. I never saw the Batman Year One spotlight short either. Young Justice's Greg Weisman writes, which might explain the YJ links. He did something similar in his Green Arrow short from years ago (which I admit I also never saw)
I'd probably watch this if Teletoon ever airs it on tv or it ends up on a streaming service I actually have. I know some English versions of Netflix have a few of the newer DC animated movies and now that I know that I can get HBO Max in Canada these days I might spring for it in the future.