Letterman's return ...

[AncientSpirit]

... was amazing.   Since he's the only one who made a deal with the Union, he had the benefit of his writing staff ... and they did lots of bits about the Strike, including the Top Ten Demands of Striking Writers, which was read by striking writers, including one from Conan's show.

The best demand was the last:  "Producers should immediately remove their heads from their #$C##$C!"

Because of his settlement with the union, he was also able to have real guests on -- and his first was Robin Williams, who was in outstanding form.

I must admit that up until the strike I always preferred Leno over Letterman because his sense of humor is more like mine.  But coming from an old union family myself, I have a strong dislike for strike-busters.

So, did anyone watch Leno last night?  And if so, what did you think of him without his writers?   

I figured he'd probably do okay because he's a writer himself ... but then heard he wouldn't even be able to do established bits if they had originated with his writers.   And the review I read this morning said he truncated his monologue.

[BWPS]

Interesting you'd say that, because I felt the same way about a writer-less Conan. Conan is HILARIOUS all by himself. He's one of the funniest people I've ever seen, way moreso than any other late-night person. He did a lot of jokes about how he had to kill time because he didn't have writers and about the network people being evil. You can tell he wasn't happy about the strike, but I can't blame him for wanting to keep his job. I don't know that he can keep it up without writers and I would hope he doesn't have to. But he's not one of those people who is funny because someone wrote something funny for him to say.

[Talavar]

Leno, Conan & Letterman returning isn't so much about keeping their own jobs, which weren't in danger, but the jobs of all the production crew who've basically been sitting idle while the writers' strike has been on.  That's why I'm willing to cut them a lot of slack - they've basically been put between coming back and seeming not to support the writers' strike, or staying off the air and letting all the camera crew & production staff who work on their shows get fired.

Same deal with Colbert & Jon Stewart, who come back next week.

[Midnight]

Conan's show was good. I really couldn't tell the difference between the actual filler and the fake filler. I do miss the Walker Texas Ranger Lever. And his beard is disturbing.

[AncientSpirit]

I found Letterman's beard deeply disburbing, as well.   Robin Williams really ragged on it, as did Letterman himself.   Hopefully, for both of them, it was just a bit to dramatize how long they were gone.   In Letterman's case, he said he'd bring in a barber on air to shave him.   :D

[stumpy]

Maybe, without writers, that's what we'll get. Tomorrow we get to see a barber shave Dave. Monday, we can see him go to a produce stand and ask shoppers to how to pick out a ripe avocado. Tuesday, we'll see him separate his laundry and do a load of towels. Etc.  :P

I suppose I am glad they are back, mostly because it bugged me that they were acting like they couldn't do what is basically an interview show without a script. Personally, I haven't watched much new television in several weeks and my TV set has been off. There are a few shows I miss, but, if others are like I am, the strike will have made people realize how easy it is to find things to do without television. Is there a place to see a time series of the nightly ratings? I wonder if it won't take a little while before the audience comes back.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Maybe, without writers, that's what we'll get. Tomorrow we get to see a barber shave Dave. Monday, we can see him go to a produce stand and ask shoppers to how to pick out a ripe avocado. Tuesday, we'll see him separate his laundry and do a load of towels. Etc.

You do realize that Dave has his writers, don't you?

I'm also not so fond of the union here.  The studios offered them part of what they wanted and instead of compromising, they added another demand that people on reality shows become part of the writer's union, which is where the studios walked away again.

The Deal with Dave, though, has altered the situation, although which side it will ultimately benefit we have yet to see.  On the one hand, the union hopes the the loss of money NBC will suffer from Dave having writers and more guests to choose from will kick them into putting pressure on the other studios.  On the other hand, movie writers feel that they are basically being ignored over their own demands, which may cause them to put more pressure on the TV writers to compromise.

But in the meantimes folks, at least those of you not at work at that time can enjoy late night again.

[stumpy]

Maybe, without writers, that's what we'll get. Tomorrow we get to see a barber shave Dave. Monday, we can see him go to a produce stand and ask shoppers to how to pick out a ripe avocado. Tuesday, we'll see him separate his laundry and do a load of towels. Etc.

You do realize that Dave has his writers, don't you?

I did not know that. Maybe he will wash a load of monogrammed towels, then.  ;)

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Yes, Dave owns his own show and the one after them, so they made a deal independently of the studios.  The fact that the union agreed with it has proven to be somewhat controversial among writers.

[stumpy]

Shouldn't the writers and union be pleased that one of the corporations they were bargaining with, Dave Letterman, gave in to their demands (or at least enough of them)?

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Some are.  But there some factors here.

1.  It breaks the solid picket lines.

2.  It breaks solidarity with the film writers, who have a somewhat different set of demands.  The film writers feel like they've been betrayed, since no one has shown any sign of giving in to their demands.  If more small tv studios follow Dave's lead, then that could leave the movie writers out in the cold.

3.  It tips the ballance unpredictably.  Lots of factors here.

[captainspud]

4. Whine whine whine, cry cry cry.

[General Jerky]

According to the insider

Jay Leno without writers beat Letterman with writers in ratings AND Leno had his best ratings in 2 years.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

And now the union is going after Leno.

Reason?  They say he broke union rules by writing his own monologue.  Sheesh.

[bearded]

And now the union is going after Leno.

Reason?  They say he broke union rules by writing his own monologue.  Sheesh.

did you write that?  carefull...union doesn't like it.

[stumpy]

Is Leno still in the screenwriter's union?

One way or another, Leno is not employed just as a screenwriter, even though everyone knows he comes up with some of his own material. This is the sort of thing that loses the union public support. People will have some sympathy with unions bargaining for more compensation for the work they do. But, they lose it when they get nit-picky about work rules. When you can't write your own lines, move a light on a set, etc., it starts to seem like they don't want anything to get done unless they get their way. They get militant about this sort of thing at their own peril.

[BlueBard]

I hereby offer my services as a writer to any producer who needs one.   I have no problem crossing writers' union picket lines.  Or even better writing from the comfort of my own home and e-mailing it in.  ;)

I'm afraid I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the writer's union.  Or any other entertainers' union, for that matter.  Other people are able to write professionally and do quite well without one.  Many, many workers who perform useful service to society and are paid far, far less than these people are NOT represented by a union.

I consider most of the work done by writers to come under one of two categories: work for hire and art for sale. 

If you produce work for hire, then IMO the material is owned by the employer who can do whatever they want with it.  In exchange, the worker gets a salary and benefits or other previously agreed upon compensation.

If you produce art for sale, then you can sell it for whatever the market will bear under any contractual obligations you can wring out of the buyer.

Now I'm not opposed to the producers and networks ponying up whatever compensation is fair.  But work rules?  For entertainment writers?  Give me a break.  It's like saying I shouldn't drive my car if the auto workers are on strike.  And why shouldn't talk-show guests cross picket lines?  That's stupid, too.  Why on earth should the rest of the world get involved in forcing the producers and networks to cough up concessions for these people?

And for gosh sakes, don't get me started on (Sports) Players' unions.

[MJB]

I grew up in a pro union household so I find it hard not to side with the writers here.

BTW Conan's beard is awesome and Dave looks like a disturbed hitch-hiker.  :shock2:

-MJB

[captainspud]

I grew up in a pro union household so I find it hard not to side with the writers here.

I don't get this point of view... shouldn't your agreement or disagreement with them be based on the value of their complaints, not on the simple fact that they're union and striking? The union I'm in is looking at striking this year, but their demands are RIDICULOUS. There is NO REASON for them to strike. Our benefits are already good, and they're just greedy and trying to get more than what is already fair. Anybody siding with my union is either uninformed or blindly supporting unions.

There is such thing as a stupid strike.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

In this case, I think the union had some good points, and both sides were being pig-headed at first--but then the studios offered a compromise.  Probably not one the union could have just accepted as is, but a good starting point for negotiations.  What did the union do?  They not only refused to budge, they insisted on a NEW provision that certain staffers on non-scripted shows become part of the writers union, apparently because they didn't like not being able to shut things down completely, although that's just a guess on my part.

Who can blame the studios for wanting to walk away at that point?

Meanwhile, it looks like the union's plan for the Letterman deal have backfired.  They were hoping that Jay's show would suffer badly, hurting NBC and forcing them to do something about it.  With Jay actually doing better than ever, NBC now has no reason to capitulate any more than they did before.  Less, actually.

In fact, I think the longer this goes on, the worse it will be for the writers.  Times have changed since the last strike.  Reality shows are popular, game shows are back, and most networks have one or more cable networks they can pull shows from if necessary.  Sure ratings will go down, but so do expenses.  The networks can survive without the writers, although all the laid off workers may have a much different story.

[MJB]

I grew up in a pro union household so I find it hard not to side with the writers here.

I don't get this point of view... shouldn't your agreement or disagreement with them be based on the value of their complaints, not on the simple fact that they're union and striking?

I do agree with the writers demands. I also feel that the purpose of joining a union is to be united in your cause. Most unions do not strike unless you vote to strike. If the majority votes to strike, your roll is to support them.

-MJB

[stumpy]

I have nothing against unions or collective bargaining in principle, but many unions work out schemes where it's essentially impossible to work without belonging to the union. In that case, the reason to join the union is to be employable, not necessarily for unity or because you support their cause. And some areas have (or at least had - I haven't kept up with the laws in various states) rules where union dues are mandatory whether or not you join the union. I know several people who think their union is awful for any number of reasons, but they join because they have to pay anyway and, if they join, they at least get to vote.

Meanwhile, in this case, even for someone who is a union member, unless he is specifically in the screenwriter's union, he had no vote in whether or not they went on strike, so that's not a reason to support them. (Not that there couldn't be other reasons, but I don't see support of the process as one.)

[General Jerky]

I understand striking when you are being treated unfair and I don't know the full details of the WGA strike and frankly I don't really care. I understand that they want to be paid for their work being available for download but I mean to strike over what would only be like .5$ per download doesn't seem really worth it. I mean you should NEVER get into a job like writing or Acting or anything for money. You should do it because its something you enjoy and you want to entertain people. And this strike doesn't only affect the writers, it affects everyone. It affects the actors and studios( Though they aren't affected as much as a few months doesn't hurt them) but then it also affects the cameramen, sound guys, editors, gophers, and also the people you are trying to entertain in the first place. I mean companies only make 1$ a download so really doesn't seem like they would get that much money in a first place, and is that really a good enough reason to make everyone else suffer? [/incoherent rant]

[Midnight]

I mean you should NEVER get into a job like writing or Acting or anything for money. You should do it because its something you enjoy and you want to entertain people.

Are you implying that these things are somehow easier than, say, McDonald's fry cook?

And this strike doesn't only affect the writers, it affects everyone. It affects the actors and studios( Though they aren't affected as much as a few months doesn't hurt them) but then it also affects the cameramen, sound guys, editors, gophers, and also the people you are trying to entertain in the first place.

The Teamsters strike and every truck in America stops. That's their big bargaining chip. The Writers strike and every show goes off the air, no films go into production. That's their big bargaining chip. The fact that it affects other people is the point.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

And I would argue that hurting other people when they have no say in the matter, even for a good cause, is always wrong.  Although you can take that too far.

In any case, the writer's union is one of those every writer is forced to join.  The rules are so strict that crossing the picket lines means you get kicked out of the union and you can't even get a job if you aren't in the union.

And I just don't like it when people are forced to do something like that.  People should have a choice.

[General Jerky]

And I would argue that hurting other people when they have no say in the matter, even for a good cause, is always wrong.  Although you can take that too far.

In any case, the writer's union is one of those every writer is forced to join.  The rules are so strict that crossing the picket lines means you get kicked out of the union and you can't even get a job if you aren't in the union.

And I just don't like it when people are forced to do something like that.  People should have a choice.

Writers for professional wrestling are not.. Too bad maybe being on strike means we would get better shows if people who actually know something about wrestling wrote the shows and not people he failed at writing for rugrats.

[BWPS]

And I would argue that hurting other people when they have no say in the matter, even for a good cause, is always wrong.  Although you can take that too far.

In any case, the writer's union is one of those every writer is forced to join.  The rules are so strict that crossing the picket lines means you get kicked out of the union and you can't even get a job if you aren't in the union.

And I just don't like it when people are forced to do something like that.  People should have a choice.

Writers for professional wrestling are not.. Too bad maybe being on strike means we would get better shows if people who actually know something about wrestling wrote the shows and not people he failed at writing for rugrats.

Yeah, I was so sick of the episodes where Tommy uses the bottle to knock out Chucky in the crib match for like a whole three seasons. the Phil and Lil tag team battles were ok though.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I just found out something interesting.

When Leno's show began filming again, his writers were missing from the picket lines.