The Dark Knight

[Viking]

[spoiler]As Podmark has theorized, I can definitely see Gordon getting Harvey into private therapy while maintaining a cover story that Harvey is "dead."  The movie already established that Jim Gordon can keep his cards extremely close to his chest and fake a death for the public good.

Admittedly, the last scenes of the movie tend to strongly suggest that Harvey is dead.  (Batman turns Harvey's head from being dark-side up to light-side up, which just is not the sort of thing that you do to an unconscious person who took a nasty fall, lest you risk doing even more damage to them.)

But... I don't remember Batman or Gordon saying that Harvey was dead.  Two-Face and Batman took the same fall, and Batman survived.  So the movie has left just enough wiggle room for Two-Face to return as a villain.

And frankly, I kinda hope that Two-Face isn't dead.  I got really tired with the Burton/Schumacher era of always killing off the Batman villains at the end of the movie.[/spoiler]

[docdelorean88]

[spoiler]Couple of things, they show Comishioner Gordon making a speach with Harvey's picture hanging behind him which insinuates a funeral, i think he's dead and about the whole No one liking batman being hunted: hate to say it but commissioner gordon originally didn't... let me emphisize that better, ahem... DIDN'T trust batman at all, so the fact that he is hunting him is only keeping closer to source material, and i just realized that there was an active warrant out to arrest the vigilante known as batman, so this really isn't changing anything important!

Oh, by the way that is just my oppinion ^_^
[/spoiler]

[House Quake]

I've got a few updated insights about Dent after seeing the movie no less than five times...
[spoiler]
I've been able to re-watch certain scenes at will.  How...?  This is the net .. thats all I'm going to say on that matter.

I listened to the wording Bats and Gordon used at the end.  And they never said that Dent was dead.   Gordan's words were, 

"The Joker won.  Harvey's prosecution... everything he fought for... undone.  Whatever chance you gave us of fixing our city... dies with Harvey's reputation.

... The joker took the best of us and tore him down."

That does not sound like they were talking about a dead man. I beleive he would have said something more like "It died with Harvey" or "With Harvey's death... it's over."  He clearly only shows concern about his 'reputation' and the consequences of what would happen once the word got out of Harvey's turn to the dark side.  Never saying anything about him being dead.  Also neither Gordan nor Batman seems to show any concern or remorse for a 'dead' friend.  This movie played up the emotional turmoils, esp about life and death, a bit too much to have just let Harvey die and we see no effect on Gordan or Bats.  Add to that,  the movie made a point to stress that Batman would not kill no matter what (which of course the Joker exploited) ... and I don't beleive he did.  A last point is Harvey's own words,

"You either die a hero... or live long enough to become the villain."

The latter is actually what I beleive happened.  He became the villain... but Gordan and Bats wanted people to beleive he died a hero.  IMO Dent is dead.  They want the city to beleive he actually died. However, 'Two--Face' will live on to tell another story... and in the mean time will find himself locked away in secretly in Arkham. 

I expect the next movie to move forward quite a bit in time.  A new Wayne Manor and Batcave should be finished as well as the re-establishment of Arkham Asylum... where Joker, Scarecrow, Two-face and others will be residents. If they decide to utilize Two-Face in the next movie I'm sure the writers will work something out.  I don't see the next movie being about Batman vs. the police for the hole 2 and 1/2 hrs.  Sure they will have that aspect as part of the story line... but could easily still bring Two-Face in and cause even more confusion to a corrupt city with all of its cover-ups and secrets.

My money is still says 100% chance Catwoman/Selena Kyle will be in the next one... and a 80% chance the Riddler.   Villains who can test Bats detective skills to the max is needed... and they would be perfect.[/spoiler]

Side note ... Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge.  thats where I heard the grumbling voice Bale uses.  LOL

[thalaw2]

I finally got around to seeing this movie and it's good but I just don't like[spoiler] Bale's bat voice.  Maybe Batman TAS has spoiled me...Bale's voice just doesn't carry well and just sounds like he has a frog in his throat.  [/spoiler]  Ledger's joker is awesome.

I do have one gripe with the movie that I won't discuss on this forum.  It took a lot of the entertainment value out of it for me.

[MJB]

[spoiler]My money is still says 100% chance Catwoman/Selena Kyle will be in the next one... and a 80% chance the Riddler.   Villains who can test Bats detective skills to the max is needed... and they would be perfect.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]With Comish Gordon himself (Gary Oldman) stating, supposedly out of context, that the Joker could be replaced with the Riddler, I remain skeptical.

My personal, no spoilers here, opinion is that we won't see Catwoman anytime soon. I could be wrong, and often am.[/spoiler]

-MJB

[TheMarvell]

with Rachel gone, the series will need another strong female lead, and what better candidate than Catwoman? With Batman on the run, she could possibly play up the angle of the "anti-batman" in that she pretends to be what Batman was to the public, but eventually shows her true colors.

Meanwhile, I'd have the Riddler, or maybe Penguin (maybe as a cameo?) be the main villain.

[lgmss]

with Rachel gone, the series will need another strong female lead, and what better candidate than Catwoman? With Batman on the run, she could possibly play up the angle of the "anti-batman" in that she pretends to be what Batman was to the public, but eventually shows her true colors.

Meanwhile, I'd have the Riddler, or maybe Penguin (maybe as a cameo?) be the main villain.

What about Talia al Ghul? I don't have anything against Catwoman being in the next movie, but with
Ra's al Ghul already the villain in the first movie she wouldn't be that hard to establish into the series.

[bredon7777]

with Rachel gone, the series will need another strong female lead, and what better candidate than Catwoman? With Batman on the run, she could possibly play up the angle of the "anti-batman" in that she pretends to be what Batman was to the public, but eventually shows her true colors.

Meanwhile, I'd have the Riddler, or maybe Penguin (maybe as a cameo?) be the main villain.

What about Talia al Ghul? I don't have anything against Catwoman being in the next movie, but with
Ra's al Ghul already the villain in the first movie she wouldn't be that hard to establish into the series.

Only problem with Talia is that she isn't well known to the general public. And yes, neither were Ra's or Scarecrow, but I'd argue that they had to establish that this was a different type of Batman movie. Now that they've moved on to the folks EVERYBODY knows, I think it would be a mistake to bring in a relative unknown except as a minor or cameo villian

[TheMarvell]

Talia could work, I'm just not familiar with the character.

Heres some new-old news on possible next villains, Penguin and Riddler:

http://movies.ign.com/articles/895/895689p1.html

Does anyone know if WB plans on having this be a trilogy only? or are they going on as long as they can, like Sony is doing with Spider-Man?

[bredon7777]

If past history is any indication, they'll drive the franchise into the ground as long as it makes money.

[MJB]

I seem to remember hearing that director Chris Nolan wasn't positive he wanted to make a 3rd one.

I'm sure one will get made with or without him but I hope that rumor is false.

-MJB

[gengoro]

Finally got to see it and I must say its the best superhero film ever imo!  The Joker was just too amazing.

If past history is any indication, they'll drive the franchise into the ground as long as it makes money.

Sad but true.  Id prefer theyd just end it on a good note.

[BentonGrey]

Finally got to see it and I must say its the best superhero film ever imo!  The Joker was just too amazing.

If past history is any indication, they'll drive the franchise into the ground as long as it makes money.

Sad but true.  Id prefer theyd just end it on a good note.

In that case, better hope they make a third.

[Figure Fan]

Finally got to see it and I must say its the best superhero film ever imo!  The Joker was just too amazing.

If past history is any indication, they'll drive the franchise into the ground as long as it makes money.

Sad but true.  Id prefer theyd just end it on a good note.

In that case, better hope they make a third.

:rolleyes:

[thalaw2]

DK is on track to being the highest grossing movie ever...after Titanic.  I'm sure WB is going to make another.  

[Glitch Girl]

Finally saw it today...

WOW!

I mean really WOW!

The sequence with the barges really stands out in my mind but the whole thing... wow.  Every perfomance really solid, great narative, great cinematography, great music... just... wow.

Sorry, HAD to gush.  I heard it was good, but I still wan't prepared for this. 

Last I heard it will probably catch Titanic within a week or so.

[stumpy]

Last I heard it will probably catch Titanic within a week or so.

It's sinking that fast?  :P

J/k I liked it, too. I heard it's grossed something like $395 million in the first three weeks. Not bad, since that's just the U.S. and it cost $185 million.

[thalaw2]

Since Titanic did sink then there won't be a sequel...lol.  Besides there is too much story left to tell (for DK).

[thanoson]

I saw it tonight as well. Really good. Loved the magic trick. I agree on the "batvoice". Was Stallone doing the voiceover? I kept expecting him to say "Batman needs a glass of water".

[steamteck]

Finally got out to see this yesterday. Ledger is amazing, obviously, and pretty much steals the whole movie. Unfortunately, next to him, Bale looks like a complete non-entity. I was interested in Dent, Gordon, even Alfred, but I couldn't care less about that stiff in the rubber suit. Neither his waffling about whether to turn himself in, nor the lame "love triangle" with Gyllenhaal had any dramatic impact whatsoever (And yes, that growly "tough guy" voice he puts on is hilariously dumb. I expected him to start pitching Frosted Flakes halfway through the movie).

Funny I found  Bale much more engaging than Ledger. I thought almost everyone did a great job. I feel everyone seems to be gushing over ledger's performance ( maybe because he died) but while it was good , I didn't find it great. He carried the role but to me he didn't  steal the show. I could have done with less Joker and more of the other characters myself. I found Gyllenhaal the weakest link in the movie. They must have worked very hard to find someone that Katie Holmes of all people was so vastly superior to in almost every way. The Bat voice didn't bother me or my wife at all. Its amazing to me what gets a pass in these things and what doesn't and I'll leave it at that.

[bredon7777]

Finally got out to see this yesterday. Ledger is amazing, obviously, and pretty much steals the whole movie. Unfortunately, next to him, Bale looks like a complete non-entity. I was interested in Dent, Gordon, even Alfred, but I couldn't care less about that stiff in the rubber suit. Neither his waffling about whether to turn himself in, nor the lame "love triangle" with Gyllenhaal had any dramatic impact whatsoever (And yes, that growly "tough guy" voice he puts on is hilariously dumb. I expected him to start pitching Frosted Flakes halfway through the movie).

I found Gyllenhaal the weakest link in the movie. They must have worked very hard to find someone that Katie Holmes of all people was so vastly superior to in almost every way.

HuhbuhWuh? Seriously?

I could give you that she was the weakest of the major characters because everyone else was so stellar, but in the movie I watched, she was miles above Homes' wooden Rachel from Batman Begins.

[Uncle Yuan]

I tend to agree - never been particularly a Gyllenhaal fan.  Don't hate her, just don't think she's anything particularly special.  I do think that she didn't do well in this movie.  Add to that the character being pretty much a non-player aside from being and you have a very forgettable role.

[Bujin]

I tend to agree - never been particularly a Gyllenhaal fan.  Don't hate her, just don't think she's anything particularly special.  I do think that she didn't do well in this movie.  Add to that the character being pretty much a non-player aside from being and you have a very forgettable role.

I didn't think she did particularly better (or worse) than Holmes.  I never minded KH in Begins, though.

[steamteck]

Finally got out to see this yesterday. Ledger is amazing, obviously, and pretty much steals the whole movie. Unfortunately, next to him, Bale looks like a complete non-entity. I was interested in Dent, Gordon, even Alfred, but I couldn't care less about that stiff in the rubber suit. Neither his waffling about whether to turn himself in, nor the lame "love triangle" with Gyllenhaal had any dramatic impact whatsoever (And yes, that growly "tough guy" voice he puts on is hilariously dumb. I expected him to start pitching Frosted Flakes halfway through the movie).

I found Gyllenhaal the weakest link in the movie. They must have worked very hard to find someone that Katie Holmes of all people was so vastly superior to in almost every way.

HuhbuhWuh? Seriously?

I could give you that she was the weakest of the major characters because everyone else was so stellar, but in the movie I watched, she was miles above Homes' wooden Rachel from Batman Begins.

Seriously? I guess I saw the wrong version of the movie. Gyllenhaal I could actually see acting if you know what I mean. She seemed just one step away from the parodies of actors reading the cue cards. Katie Holmes didn't seem wooden to me just not brilliant

[thanoson]

I thought she looked extremely tired. The whole time she looked like she hadn't slept in 3-4 days.

[thalaw2]

I thought Dent was the strongest character in the movie.  I have to say he was better than....Billy D. at the role. 

[Previsionary]

here's a small little article about Bale's use of the low/growly voice as Batman that some people may find interesting: *growls*

[crimsonquill]

And after a looong wait to finally work out some free time for a movie theater.. I finally saw TDK.

Needless to say.. I was impressed and quite relieved to see that it really lived up to the hype surrounding the film.  :thumbup:

Ledger really lived up to the role of Joker and the appearance of Two-Face was used quite well to show the good/evil side of our personalities... and that Batman had to take the rap for Dent's actions to preserve his "white knight" image. Which really makes me wonder now that Wayne has to take his crime fighting completely underground (to avoid anyone making a connection with Batman and Wayne) that we finally get to see a modern "Batcave" and using more detective/costume techniques to hide among the criminal underworld and strike at them from within before they take the battle to the streets.

And I agree that Catwoman and The Riddler would be the best villians for the next movie... Catwoman enters as a thief who catches Batman's eye while Selina catches the interest of Wayne as the animal rights activist and playboy stalker she is known for being. Riddler takes to the streets wanting to make a name for himself like Joker did but proving that order and well planned crime waves would work far better then the chaos method. Wayne is forced to walk a tightrope between his morals as he falls for Catwoman and learns that turning a blind eye to her crimes and trying to prove yourself as a hero isn't easy when Gotham still believes you are a murderer and a vigilante of the worse kind. Maybe we get to see The Riddler try to spring Joker and Scarecrow from Arkham but realizes they are best left where they are... but we finally get to see a therapist named Dr. Quinzel show up and take an interest in one of the inmates.
Or something to that effect...

- CrimsonQuill

[zuludelta]

Finally saw the film (I feel like I'm the last person here to have seen it). I thought it was okay, but I don't think I'm as fond of it as the majority of people who saw it (judging by the general sentiment on these boards and in the film-going community in general).

I have only one real gripe about the film (and it's one that carried over from Batman Begins), but I'll let professional critic Brendon Conelly say it for me:

This film does not take place in any kind of universe where dressing up as a Bat and putting on a hilariously silly voice makes even a drop of sense (unless as an adolescent power fantasy, which for many viewers I suppose it is). Indeed, much of the film does not belong in the world Nolan seems desperate to ground it in, particularly the biological details of Two Face's disfigurement. All of this could have seemed at home in a universe that played by these rules -- another lesson to be learnt from the Burton films.

Basically, Conelly's point is that the "world" that Nolan has created for his Batman films is so grounded in reality that a grown man dressing in a bat-themed suit to fight evildoers becomes a bit too absurd, and I have to agree with his observation. The psychological reality of Wayne's motivation to become a costumed do-gooder rings false in light of the palpably grounded and realistic tone of the film's setting. Besides that one major problem, though, I thought it was a fun summer blockbuster-type movie.

[BWPS]

here's a small little article about Bale's use of the low/growly voice as Batman that some people may find interesting: *growls*

It's like they start off by saying "this voice sounds really goofy", then justify it by saying "oh, it's because the movie is darker" and then give Kevin Conroy as an example, even though his voice sounded awesome and not goofy.

The animated series are notable because they drew on the DC Comics of Batman as envisioned by Frank Miller, whose work heavily informs "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight." (Bale and Nolan were unavailable to comment for this story.)

WHY DO PEOPLE KISS MILLER'S BUTT SO MUCH?!!?!? Drew upon Frank Miller? The writing of TAS was so much better than anything Frank Miller has ever done, and not just because it was a cartoon vs a comic book. Maybe he wrote Batman in a dark way for the first time in a while, but the character he wrote wasn't even a good Batman, he was Doucheman.

This film does not take place in any kind of universe where dressing up as a Bat and putting on a hilariously silly voice makes even a drop of sense (unless as an adolescent power fantasy, which for many viewers I suppose it is). Indeed, much of the film does not belong in the world Nolan seems desperate to ground it in, particularly the biological details of Two Face's disfigurement. All of this could have seemed at home in a universe that played by these rules -- another lesson to be learnt from the Burton films.

Ah, that's stupid to me. It's a Batman movie, you have to suspend your disbelief enough to accept that a Batman movie is going to have Batman in it. Because they made it realistic and incorporated a lot of other more realistic characters, then Batman and Two-Face don't fit? Also, nothing in the Burton films has anything on this.