Golden Age Body Count

[Xenolith]

When we discuss whether certain super-heroes kill or not, I always think we should put a giant * by any reference made to the Golden Age version of the characters, especially any appearance prior to about 1941.  To me, those stories are really the grandfather of todays "mature" comic books.  In many cases they were more pulp (of full blown pulp) than super-hero, a genre that really hadn't been defined, obviously.

Anyway, I buy a lot of DC Archves and Marvel Masterworks, and the other night I was reading the Golden Age Hawkman stories and I was surprised by how many times Hawkman would just "off" a guy with no second thoughts.  The stories, for the Golden Age, are very good.  They are not funny like Plastic Man or Captain Marvel, or full of action like Superman or Batman, but they have a style all their own.  Starman tries very hard to be like Hawkman, but isn't executed nearly as well.

There is one Sub-Mariner story I read a while back where he throws a "5th Columnist" down a mine shaft, hoping the fall would kill him.  Well, there was water at the bottom of the shaft, so the Sub-Mariner flew down the mine shaft and drowned the guy.  This comic came out right before the start of WWII, and Marvel(Timely) was very strongly anti-Nazi Germany/Japan even prior to the war, so its probably understandable that a german spy would get killed.

Hawkman, on the other hand, just kills guys to solve a problem.  Mad scientist?  Sling stone to the head.  Crime boss?  Broadsword to the gut.  There are no "jumping in front of bullets to save your dying sister, " or "repenting on your death bed" scenes.  Nope, "the Hawk" just takes care of his business and finishes up with a shrug of his shoulders and then goes on a date with Shierra. 

[lugaru]

Submariner is well identified as an anti-hero though. The images of him sinking ships and killing foes have stuck. Batman did start out killing but despite not being a DC expert I would think that all those Crisis and weird things have wiped that out. Still great point!

[Alaric]

There is one Sub-Mariner story I read a while back where he throws a "5th Columnist" down a mine shaft, hoping the fall would kill him.  Well, there was water at the bottom of the shaft, so the Sub-Mariner flew down the mine shaft and drowned the guy.  This comic came out right before the start of WWII, and Marvel(Timely) was very strongly anti-Nazi Germany/Japan even prior to the war, so its probably understandable that a german spy would get killed.

Just out of curiosity, was this before the war actually started (September, 1939, at which point Namor would have been published for less than a year), or just before the US entered the war (December, 1941)?

[doctorchallenger]

X, you raise a really good point.  The goldenage characters were created as an extension of the puplp tradition, after all.  The Shadow, the Spider and the Avenger would have bad guys drop dead on a regular basis.  Doc Savage was one of the few witha  code versus killing.  

Also, there was a war on when many of these characters were created. Germans and Japanese tended tobuy the farm in droves.  Captain America is regualry well armed in a typical Alex Schomberg cover.

[tommyboy]

Comics Code Authority.
That's when the modern (non-lethal) superhero was born.
Prior to it, and since it's demise, the slightly sociopathic "killem killem killem" mentality prevails, as it gets more attention than "I will bend this lamp-post round you till the police arrive" approach.
I actually wouldn't have guessed I'd miss it, but I sort of do.

[JKCarrier]

Comics Code Authority.
That's when the modern (non-lethal) superhero was born.

I think it happened much earlier than that. By the time the U.S. entered WW II, most of the heroes had straightened up their acts. I suspect it had something to do with the fact that, with the country at war, the idea of the anti-establishment maverick suddenly didn't seem so cool anymore. It was time for everyone to pull together. Characters like Batman and Superman started working hand-in-hand with the police, and even the Sub-Mariner went from attacking America to helping us fight against Hitler.

By the time the Code was enacted in 1954, superheroes were already on the wane. While Fredric Wertham famously attacked superheroes for promoting fascism and homosexuality, the main targets of the Comics Code were horror and "true crime" comics... products of the postwar era that were more violent and disturbing than the superheroes had ever been.

[The Hitman]

Comics Code Authority.
That's when the modern (non-lethal) superhero was born.

On the other hand, The Spectre was really creative about how it got killin' folks past the Code. For example, I think he was going after an arsonist. Ol' Spec turned the guy into a candle, and lit him on fire. Nowhere in the Code does it say that you can't burn a candle, no matter how much it screams.

[Xenolith]

There is one Sub-Mariner story I read a while back where he throws a "5th Columnist" down a mine shaft, hoping the fall would kill him.  Well, there was water at the bottom of the shaft, so the Sub-Mariner flew down the mine shaft and drowned the guy.  This comic came out right before the start of WWII, and Marvel(Timely) was very strongly anti-Nazi Germany/Japan even prior to the war, so its probably understandable that a german spy would get killed.

Just out of curiosity, was this before the war actually started (September, 1939, at which point Namor would have been published for less than a year), or just before the US entered the war (December, 1941)?

IIRC, the story in question was written before the US entered the war, but war was raging in Europe and Asia.  The 5th Columnist was trying to prevent the US from providing raw materials to our eventual allied nations.

Yes, Namor did start out hating humans and went out of his way to smash ships and cities.  Once the war started, Namor decided he hated Germans more than Americans and joined our side.

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, this is true, and I actually have to say that the Golden Age is the closest thing that has ever existed to what I really want in comics.  Yeah, the heroes did kill occasionally, which I sorta' read around, but the comics never focused on death and gore, it was there, understated, but you can see it if you watch closely, like in JLU or Johnny Quest.  Kids often times won't be bothered by it, but adults may appreciate the touch of realisim it adds.  I'm actually reading the original Superman adventures, and even big blue offs a couple of guys, though never directly.  Batman even carried a gun originally, for heaven's sakes!