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NBC's _Heroes_

Started by stumpy, February 01, 2007, 11:59:13 PM

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Conduit

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on June 01, 2007, 08:54:07 PM
That may be what the writers say, but it's not what Kring said, and he sort of trumps them.

Yeah, that's one explanation, and one that works pretty well, but it's not what the series creator said.

I believe he said that "somewhere in there" is the explanation but that the real reason they did it was so that Nathan could save the day.  He really didn't give an "in universe" explanation (he may simply have forgotten about it at the time), so they don't contradict each other at all.

catwhowalksbyhimself

I never said they contradicted each other.

stumpy

[spoiler]
Quote from: Conduit on June 01, 2007, 08:18:50 PM
We know that he has regeneration in Five Years Gone because the timeline seen in that episode (Timeline B) is a continuation of the timeline that we been following when Hiro jumped into the future.  Thus everything that happened before episode 20 happened in Timeline B, including Peter rescuing Claire and getting her power.

Then how does Peter have a scar in FYG? It seems like that theory assumes that Hiro can only jump forward into time-lines that proceed consistently from the one he is currently in. That would certainly be less confusing, but I don't know that it is the case. That giant set of strings that Hiro set up in Isaac's FYG apartment makes it seem like he is able to jump between different time lines. Otherwise, how would he even know that saving Claire was the critical bit in the alternate universes? In his native time-line (the one where Sylar has regeneration), future Hiro wouldn't even necessarily know which victim Sylar got the regeneration power from.
[/spoiler]


Conduit

[spoiler]
Quote from: stumpy on June 02, 2007, 06:53:38 AM
Quote from: Conduit on June 01, 2007, 08:18:50 PM
We know that he has regeneration in Five Years Gone because the timeline seen in that episode (Timeline B) is a continuation of the timeline that we been following when Hiro jumped into the future.  Thus everything that happened before episode 20 happened in Timeline B, including Peter rescuing Claire and getting her power.

Then how does Peter have a scar in FYG? It seems like that theory assumes that Hiro can only jump forward into time-lines that proceed consistently from the one he is currently in. That would certainly be less confusing, but I don't know that it is the case. That giant set of strings that Hiro set up in Isaac's FYG apartment makes it seem like he is able to jump between different time lines. Otherwise, how would he even know that saving Claire was the critical bit in the alternate universes? In his native time-line (the one where Sylar has regeneration), future Hiro wouldn't even necessarily know which victim Sylar got the regeneration power from.

We know that in the timeline seen in Five Years Gone, Peter rescued Claire.  In the graphic novel "String Theory," Future Hiro says he teleported back, gave Peter the message, and came back to the future only to find that little had changed, then ran into his past self like in the beginning of Five Years Gone.  Mohinder recalls being on the subway train when Peter gets the message, saying that Peter suddenly started raving about a man who stopped time and told him to save the cheerleader.  Future Hiro convinces Bennet to help him by telling him that he gave Peter the message, thus saving her life.  Bennet certainly acts like that sounds familiar.

The presence of the strings is confusing (I really don't want to get into the time travel discussion again), but I think that it's pretty clear that the writers' intent was that Hiro cannot travel "across" between alternate timelines, only forward and backward on his own particular timeline.  They said somewhere that they would explain how Peter has a scar sometime in the series.

As to how Future Hiro figured out that Claire was the one with regeneration, it would be pretty easy to find the identity of everyone Sylar had killed before the explosion (should be about 10 people).  Maybe he went around trying to find out who had what power.  Maybe at some point he asked Bennet for help with this, and Bennet was immediately able to tell him who it was.  Maybe he and Bennet had already talked about that and he knew who it was beforehand.  We know from the graphic novel "String Theory" that he figured it out somehow.
[/spoiler]

stumpy


[spoiler]
Quote from: Conduit on June 02, 2007, 03:46:48 PMWe know that in the timeline seen in Five Years Gone, Peter rescued Claire. 

We know that Future Hiro told Peter to "Save the cheerleader, save the world" in the time-line leading to the FYG. We don't know that he saved her or even met her (thus acquiring her power). Some other sequence of events could easily have saved her life, possibly related to something Peter or Hiro did.

Quote from: Conduit on June 02, 2007, 03:46:48 PMThe presence of the strings is confusing (I really don't want to get into the time travel discussion again), but I think that it's pretty clear that the writers' intent was that Hiro cannot travel "across" between alternate timelines, only forward and backward on his own particular timeline.  They said somewhere that they would explain how Peter has a scar sometime in the series.

I am not saying I know what they meant, and you are definitely correct that the strings are an odd artifice laying on top of the screwy foundation of time travel in the first place. But, I have to disagree that "it's pretty clear that the writers' intent was that Hiro cannot travel 'across' between alternate timelines, only forward and backward on his own particular timeline." If the strings mean anything, it's that he is looking at alternate time-lines and he eventually concludes that saving Claire from Sylar is the critical factor in all of them. If he wasn't getting information from across alternate time-lines, then there only would have been one string, right?

Quote from: Conduit on June 02, 2007, 03:46:48 PMAs to how Future Hiro figured out that Claire was the one with regeneration, it would be pretty easy to find the identity of everyone Sylar had killed before the explosion (should be about 10 people).  Maybe he went around trying to find out who had what power.  Maybe at some point he asked Bennet for help with this, and Bennet was immediately able to tell him who it was.  Maybe he and Bennet had already talked about that and he knew who it was beforehand.  We know from the graphic novel "String Theory" that he figured it out somehow.

That would be believable. I think it would be pretty tough to figure out who had what power (and I think there were more than ten specials killed by the time the explosion occurred), especially since many of them are passive and the many of people themselves hardly knew what they were and hadn't really been forthcoming to their friends or family. But, I agree that that could the a workable plot device.

Anyway, thanks for humoring me on this. It's a minor point, ultimately, even if it turned out to be a plot hole. In reality, I suspect that the reason Future Peter in the FYG has a scar is that they showed him that way earlier and it's a convenient on-camera way to make any Future Peter look distinct from Present Peter. I doubt they considered that it raises questions as to why FYG Peter, with regeneration, should have a scar. Just speculation, of course.

BTW, I guess this is just my Legion of Superheroes fandom asserting itself, but I can't help but think of the "Five Year Gap" (or "Five Year Gaffe", as I call it) of LSH lore whenever I see FYG in this context.  ^_^
[/spoiler]

Conduit

[spoiler]
Quote from: stumpy on June 03, 2007, 10:55:29 PM

Quote from: Conduit on June 02, 2007, 03:46:48 PMWe know that in the timeline seen in Five Years Gone, Peter rescued Claire. 

We know that Future Hiro told Peter to "Save the cheerleader, save the world" in the time-line leading to the FYG. We don't know that he saved her or even met her (thus acquiring her power). Some other sequence of events could easily have saved her life, possibly related to something Peter or Hiro did.

Yes, we do know that Peter saved Claire.  When Future Hiro talks to Bennet, he says that told Peter to "save the cheerleader."  If Peter hadn't saved her, wouldn't Bennet have said something about that?  Instead he made an expression like that was really familiar to him and offered to help Hiro, where a few minutes ago he had adamantly refused.  I really don't see any way that Peter could have saved Claire without meeting her.

Quote from: stumpy on June 03, 2007, 10:55:29 PM
I am not saying I know what they meant, and you are definitely correct that the strings are an odd artifice laying on top of the screwy foundation of time travel in the first place. But, I have to disagree that "it's pretty clear that the writers' intent was that Hiro cannot travel 'across' between alternate timelines, only forward and backward on his own particular timeline." If the strings mean anything, it's that he is looking at alternate time-lines and he eventually concludes that saving Claire from Sylar is the critical factor in all of them. If he wasn't getting information from across alternate time-lines, then there only would have been one string, right?

In the graphic novel "String Theory," Future Hiro explains the strings.  He says, "Time was not at a line or a fabric, but the product of lives, interweaved."  Each string represented a person or a chain of events as they met and interacted.  It had a string representing Sylar, a string representing Peter, a string representing Claire that ended when it met Sylar's string, etc.
[/spoiler]

bredon7777

Quote from: stumpy on June 03, 2007, 10:55:29 PM

[spoiler]
[
Anyway, thanks for humoring me on this. It's a minor point, ultimately, even if it turned out to be a plot hole. In reality, I suspect that the reason Future Peter in the FYG has a scar is that they showed him that way earlier and it's a convenient on-camera way to make any Future Peter look distinct from Present Peter. I doubt they considered that it raises questions as to why FYG Peter, with regeneration, should have a scar. Just speculation, of course.

BTW, I guess this is just my Legion of Superheroes fandom asserting itself, but I can't help but think of the "Five Year Gap" (or "Five Year Gaffe", as I call it) of LSH lore whenever I see FYG in this context.  ^_^
[/spoiler]


[spoiler]
In actuality, the reason future Peter had a scar, is that was the trade of that Milo agreed to- He'd cut his bangs for them in return for giving him a, in his words, "wicked scar".

As for the Legion, I cant be the only person whos favorite Legion era is the Giffen/Biernbaums reboot, can I?

[/spoiler]

stumpy

[spoiler]
Quote from: Conduit on June 04, 2007, 08:49:26 AM
Quote from: stumpy on June 03, 2007, 10:55:29 PM

Quote from: Conduit on June 02, 2007, 03:46:48 PMWe know that in the timeline seen in Five Years Gone, Peter rescued Claire. 

We know that Future Hiro told Peter to "Save the cheerleader, save the world" in the time-line leading to the FYG. We don't know that he saved her or even met her (thus acquiring her power). Some other sequence of events could easily have saved her life, possibly related to something Peter or Hiro did.

Yes, we do know that Peter saved Claire.  When Future Hiro talks to Bennet, he says that told Peter to "save the cheerleader."  If Peter hadn't saved her, wouldn't Bennet have said something about that?  Instead he made an expression like that was really familiar to him and offered to help Hiro, where a few minutes ago he had adamantly refused.  I really don't see any way that Peter could have saved Claire without meeting her.

In other words we don't know that Peter saved Claire. As I said before, we know that Hiro sent the message to save her. Bennet might have appreciated the effort, as any father would, even if Peter hadn't been able to directly save Claire himself. And, remember that Claire is alive in FYG, so it's not like Bennet would be bitter that others had tried and failed to saved her and would throw that back in Hiro's face. And, keep in mind that Claire almost got away from Sylar on her own anyway when he was busy carving up the other girl. All Peter really did was provide a short distraction. He might have achieved the same effect by calling the police, etc.

Look, I agree that it's perfectly reasonable to assume that Peter must have saved her directly, and I might even agree that that's maybe the most likely interpretation. But, since there's this other issue at hand of the in-story explanation for Peter's scar, I was curious about what we actually know instead of what we have to assume. That's why I'm considering alternate scenarios. E.g., there may be reasons to wonder if something else might have happened. The big thing is still Peter's scar. But also, even in that FYG encounter between Bennet and Hiro, one could look at that same scene and ask, since Hiro is trying to wheedle a favor out of Bennet, if he knew that Peter had actually saved Claire, then why didn't he play that card with Bennet instead of just saying that he had given Peter the message?

Quote from: Conduit on June 04, 2007, 08:49:26 AM
Quote from: stumpy on June 03, 2007, 10:55:29 PM
I am not saying I know what they meant, and you are definitely correct that the strings are an odd artifice laying on top of the screwy foundation of time travel in the first place. But, I have to disagree that "it's pretty clear that the writers' intent was that Hiro cannot travel 'across' between alternate timelines, only forward and backward on his own particular timeline." If the strings mean anything, it's that he is looking at alternate time-lines and he eventually concludes that saving Claire from Sylar is the critical factor in all of them. If he wasn't getting information from across alternate time-lines, then there only would have been one string, right?

In the graphic novel "String Theory," Future Hiro explains the strings.  He says, "Time was not at a line or a fabric, but the product of lives, interweaved."  Each string represented a person or a chain of events as they met and interacted.  It had a string representing Sylar, a string representing Peter, a string representing Claire that ended when it met Sylar's string, etc.
That works. Given that we have to bite our tongues a little bit with time travel anyway, that's a good explanation.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: bredon7777 on June 04, 2007, 07:11:09 PM
Quote from: stumpy on June 03, 2007, 10:55:29 PMBTW, I guess this is just my Legion of Superheroes fandom asserting itself, but I can't help but think of the "Five Year Gap" (or "Five Year Gaffe", as I call it) of LSH lore whenever I see FYG in this context.  ^_^

As for the Legion, I cant be the only person whos favorite Legion era is the Giffen/Biernbaums reboot, can I?

Oh, I agree it was very good. I think the transition to an adult Legion was a great stride for the book and KG and T&MB really told the stories well. Of course, there was one heartache after another in that period, especially for fans of a certain Coluan.

My problem was with the Five Year Gaffe itself. IMO, it was never developed very well, even though lots of events were mentioned (e.g. the Venado Bay incident), the whole thing never quite worked for me. Of course, that could partly be because I was a little disappointed by the Magic Wars ending to the Levitz run...

vamp

Yeah I dont know if you if you heard this but, (Beware huge life altering spoiler)
[spoiler]I heard on E (my sister is always watching that channel) Peter and Nathan are ALIVE. Yeah I know, makes no sense, but when did Heroes make sense?But the jury is still out about the others[/spoiler]

Jakew

Well, considering how radiation doesn't really work in the Heroes universe like it does in real life (remember when Ted was exploding in HRG's house?), I guess its possible than Nathan survived. Although that would suck and undermine the storyline.

This is probably a little mean, but I get the feeling that the writers/producers of Heroes kind of expect the fans to plug up the plot-holes sometimes.

Conduit

Yeah, it's been repeatedly demonstrated that Ted's power does not harm the user, no matter how powerful the emissions are.  Another thing, I don't believe that Ted's clothes have ever been ignited by his radiation.  Maybe that immunity can be passed on to objects that he's touching, similar to how Claude can make other people invisible with him, or DL can phase other people with him.

Conduit

[spoiler]
Quote from: stumpy on June 05, 2007, 07:03:02 AM
Quote from: Conduit on June 04, 2007, 08:49:26 AM
Quote from: stumpy on June 03, 2007, 10:55:29 PM

Quote from: Conduit on June 02, 2007, 03:46:48 PMWe know that in the timeline seen in Five Years Gone, Peter rescued Claire. 

We know that Future Hiro told Peter to "Save the cheerleader, save the world" in the time-line leading to the FYG. We don't know that he saved her or even met her (thus acquiring her power). Some other sequence of events could easily have saved her life, possibly related to something Peter or Hiro did.

Yes, we do know that Peter saved Claire.  When Future Hiro talks to Bennet, he says that told Peter to "save the cheerleader."  If Peter hadn't saved her, wouldn't Bennet have said something about that?  Instead he made an expression like that was really familiar to him and offered to help Hiro, where a few minutes ago he had adamantly refused.  I really don't see any way that Peter could have saved Claire without meeting her.

In other words we don't know that Peter saved Claire. As I said before, we know that Hiro sent the message to save her. Bennet might have appreciated the effort, as any father would, even if Peter hadn't been able to directly save Claire himself. And, remember that Claire is alive in FYG, so it's not like Bennet would be bitter that others had tried and failed to saved her and would throw that back in Hiro's face. And, keep in mind that Claire almost got away from Sylar on her own anyway when he was busy carving up the other girl. All Peter really did was provide a short distraction. He might have achieved the same effect by calling the police, etc.

Look, I agree that it's perfectly reasonable to assume that Peter must have saved her directly, and I might even agree that that's maybe the most likely interpretation. But, since there's this other issue at hand of the in-story explanation for Peter's scar, I was curious about what we actually know instead of what we have to assume. That's why I'm considering alternate scenarios. E.g., there may be reasons to wonder if something else might have happened. The big thing is still Peter's scar. But also, even in that FYG encounter between Bennet and Hiro, one could look at that same scene and ask, since Hiro is trying to wheedle a favor out of Bennet, if he knew that Peter had actually saved Claire, then why didn't he play that card with Bennet instead of just saying that he had given Peter the message?

It's more than than a perfectly reasonable assumption, it's the straightforward interpretation.  Your alternate explanation would require Hiro to teleport directly into the future of a timeline with a different past than the one he was on.  If he could do this, why had he never done it before?  For most of the season, teleporting could land him anywhere, at any time.  Why has he always landed in the same timeline, never finding himself in say, a timeline where Germany won WWII?  And why would Future Hiro, whose been shown to have almost perfect control over his abilities, intentionally teleport back to a different timeline?  The only reasonable explanation is that he can only go forward and backward on his particular timeline.

It would also require Peter to somehow save Claire without even meeting her.  I really don't see any way for him to do that.  Calling the police would not work.  Peter didn't have enough detail from the paintings to explain it in a way that the police would believe him.  Not to mention that he would have to fly to Odessa just to get in touch with the local 911 department, and if he went to that much trouble, why wouldn't he at the very least go to the school just in case the police didn't succeed.  Can you really imagine Peter sitting at the Burnt Toast Diner with Ando, having a cup of coffee, and praying to himself that the police manage to save the cheerleader?  And why would he call the police in the first place?  In the timeline we saw, Peter didn't even consider doing that.  Why would he think of it in a timeline where Future Hiro made the exact same changes that he made in the timeline we saw?

And Future Hiro did play the "Peter saved Claire" card.  He told Bennet his role in it, saying that he was the one who told Peter to save Claire.  He didn't bring up Peter's role in it because Peter wasn't working with him, which was why he went to Bennet in the first place.

So I find it really hard to buy your theory.  It's been confirmed that that's not the writers' intent anyway.  In an interview, the writers said, "First, it is not a mistake, Peter can regenerate, but he still has the scar. Secondly, we'll show you how later on in the series. We promise."  I guess we'll just have to wait and see if their explanation is a good one.[/spoiler]

catwhowalksbyhimself

I found that monster I talked about.  A picture of it in the 9th wonders comic is here.

There's also a mention of him in that article by the writers which may prove significant.

stumpy


[spoiler]
Quote from: Conduit on June 07, 2007, 04:39:27 PM
It's more than than a perfectly reasonable assumption, it's the straightforward interpretation.  Your alternate explanation would require Hiro to teleport directly into the future of a timeline with a different past than the one he was on.
So, when Hiro teleported away from Charlie, he arrived in the exact same timeline in which he and Charlie had fallen in love six months in the past? Then when he and Ando got there, she and the other restaurant employees/regulars didn't recognize him? I don't know that any of us understands the exact rules for Hiro's time travel (and I sort of doubt the writers do either), but I won't rely on that as a reason Peter had to have directly saved Claire in FYG.

Quote from: Conduit on June 07, 2007, 04:39:27 PMIt would also require Peter to somehow save Claire without even meeting her.  I really don't see any way for him to do that.  Calling the police would not work.

Are you seriously telling me that you can't imagine any scenario where Peter called the police and they caused enough of a diversion for Claire to get away? Please. Besides, no one ever said it had to be the police. Peter could have saved Claire by fighting Sylar without getting near enough to Claire to acquire her power. That easily could have happened if Peter had just entered that hallway in the high school from the other direction. We can imagine any number of ways for it to happen.

Quote from: Conduit on June 07, 2007, 04:39:27 PMPeter didn't have enough detail from the paintings to explain it in a way that the police would believe him. 

He not would tell the police that he saw a painting of the future. But, he could have called in a bomb threat. He could have said that one of his friends' disaffected teenager has been grumbling about killing a cheerleader at homecoming and he just found on of his guns missing. He could have said any of a number of things that would have at least gotten the police to check it out.

Meanwhile, despite his lack of detail, Peter managed to find Claire at the right place and time in what was mostly luck. We can buy into that but we can't buy into a cop on the lookout for a cheerleader being attacked getting lucky?

Quote from: Conduit on June 07, 2007, 04:39:27 PMNot to mention that he would have to fly to Odessa just to get in touch with the local 911 department, ...

What? It's trivial to get to get in touch with a police department that isn't in the 911 area you are currently in.

Quote from: Conduit on June 07, 2007, 04:39:27 PMand if he went to that much trouble, why wouldn't he at the very least go to the school just in case the police didn't succeed.  Can you really imagine Peter sitting at the Burnt Toast Diner with Ando, having a cup of coffee, and praying to himself that the police manage to save the cheerleader?

Who ever said he was going to call the police and then sit on his butt? No one. He would have called the police and still tried his best to get there and save Claire himself.

Look, if you are going to try and read the most ridiculous assumptions into what I am saying, we can let this drop. I know you don't like the idea that it's possible FYG Peter has a scar because he didn't save Claire directly and acquire her power. I am saying that what we saw on screen allows for that possibility. You don't agree. Fine.


Quote from: Conduit on June 07, 2007, 04:39:27 PMAnd why would he call the police in the first place?  In the timeline we saw, Peter didn't even consider doing that.

Umm... maybe because he thought someone was going to be killed? They may not have wasted screen time showing him "think of it", but he would be an idiot not to have at least considered it.

Quote from: Conduit on June 07, 2007, 04:39:27 PMWhy would he think of it in a timeline where Future Hiro made the exact same changes that he made in the timeline we saw?

Maybe he thought of it in both timelines and only acted on it in one? Who cares? We already know that things happen differently in the "real" timeline than in the one that leads to FYG, so we can't assume that everything in FYG is identical to how things happened in the real one.

Quote from: Conduit on June 07, 2007, 04:39:27 PMAnd Future Hiro did play the "Peter saved Claire" card.  He told Bennet his role in it, saying that he was the one who told Peter to save Claire.

If we assume ahead of time that Peter saved Claire, then the "I told Peter to save Claire" card is the same as the "Peter saved Claire" card. That isn't helpful if we are trying to show that Peter saved Claire.

Quote from: Conduit on June 07, 2007, 04:39:27 PMSo I find it really hard to buy your theory. 
Fair enough. I myself have stated other possible explanations for Peter's scar, even assuming he regenerates. This is just a different take.

Quote from: Conduit on June 07, 2007, 04:39:27 PMIt's been confirmed that that's not the writers' intent anyway.  In an interview, the writers said, "First, it is not a mistake, Peter can regenerate, but he still has the scar. Secondly, we'll show you how later on in the series. We promise."  I guess we'll just have to wait and see if their explanation is a good one.

I guess. I don't buy into those interviews. For one thing, what the writers intend isn't always what ends up on screen, but it's also just too easy for a writer to promise they'll make something up later.
[/spoiler]

Conduit

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  I just find the whole alternate timeline idea to be too big a logical leap.


A thought, what if Sylar used his freezing power on Peter after wounding him?  Would Claire's power work if the skin around the damaged area was frozen?

catwhowalksbyhimself

I agree with you Conduit.  It has clearly always been the writers' intention that Peter get his scar even with regeneration.  They said for a long time that

[spoiler]he's still going to get it in the current timeline as well, which will put this argument to rest.  I also means he survived the explosion, of course, but that makes sense.[/spoiler]

Sevenforce

Just want to throw in that, if Hiro never gave Peter the message, Peter would never have known/met Claire. Even Isaacs pictures are ambiguous, so just throwing that out there.

stumpy

I think part of what makes future Peter's scar tough to explain is that the writers have made Claire's power so effective. In other words, I like the idea that maybe Peter was frozen or something at the time he got the scar (or right after) and the regeneration power couldn't work then (I have previously suggested that his healing might have been nullified by the Haitian or some other character or device). But, he would eventually thaw.

[spoiler]So the tough thing is that the writers have shown that the healing will kick in and completely heal wounds even if they were inflicted when the character couldn't heal at the time. That is, when Claire had been "killed" by that root, she was not healing while dead and she received further wounds in the form of the autopsy incisions. But, when her regeneration power came online again, which would be quite a while later since autopsies aren't just five minute affairs, she healed both the initial wound and the incision wound. So, whatever story they shoehorn onto this, it has to be more than "the healing was temporarily off when the wound occurred". That would be completely inadequate.

My preference is that Peter loses some of his powers one way or another (and maybe has to get them back, maybe not). There could easily be a special who permanently nullifies a power or who steals a power instead of copying it. That might explain the scar and he could have it for a while, though I'd still have questions about why it wouldn't go away if he ever ran into Claire again.... I've also speculated that maybe Peter develops enough control over the power that he deliberately decides not to let it heal the scar, perhaps as a symbolic gesture or reminder to himself of some mistake he made that cost a life, maybe.

Anyway, I am sure the writers will address this somehow. At this point, it's a bit of a minor mystery / plot hole. I don't put much stock in the writer interviews because it just seems like of course they are going to say they planned it and it will all be explained later. What else would they do? Say that they screwed up and something that doesn't make much sense happened? I would actually prefer that they did that when it's true, especially on minor stuff like this, but I wouldn't expect it. And, as goes without saying, what the writers intend is trumped by whatever ends up on film.

BTW, I agree that Peter should be alive. In actuality, there is little reason to believe he wouldn't be. The radiation and explosion shouldn't hurt him any more than it ever hurt Ted. Of course, he could be killed just by the fall if he were unconscious afterward, but we don't know that he would be.

With Nathan, at least there is some reason to believe he might be dead. Not that he would have to be, by any means. But that was the same explosion that was supposed to have killed millions, so it's a bit of a leap for Nathan to have survived it. I guess Peter could have altered it at the last minute. Maybe. And, just from a fourth-wall perspective, it kind of undermines the whole "noble sacrifice" aspect of Nathan's action.[/spoiler]

bredon7777

[spoiler]

I cant find the article I saw, but I did see a spoiler tease for next season- One character loses his memory, and another develops a drinking problem-

What if Nathan has lost his memory, and Peter, beliving he has killed Nathan develops a drinking problem - would that cause him to lose enough control of hsi pwoers to get that scar?[/spoiler]

stumpy


[spoiler]
Quote from: bredon7777 on June 08, 2007, 10:05:27 PM
What if Nathan has lost his memory, and Peter, beliving he has killed Nathan develops a drinking problem - would that cause him to lose enough control of his pwoers to get that scar?

The problem is that the regeneration has been shown to be passive. Maybe with some concentration, he could turn it off. But, it would seem like, even if he were losing control, it shouldn't turn off a passive power...

But, your basic idea of a power he doesn't control may still work. E.g., what if Peter, with his haphazard power acquisition, had picked up some sort of power with a harmful/degenerative side-effect? After all, there is no rule that these powers all have to have only beneficial effects or even that they can't be wholly harmful (Ted's is kind of a case in point). Maybe Peter picks up one that causes some damage. It could be a passive power he doesn't know how to turn off or it could even be a power with some beneficial effect and the side-effect is the price he pays...?
[/spoiler]


Conduit

[spoiler]
Quote from: stumpy on June 08, 2007, 10:45:04 PM

The problem is that the regeneration has been shown to be passive. Maybe with some concentration, he could turn it off. But, it would seem like, even if he were losing control, it shouldn't turn off a passive power...

All of Peter's powers are inactive unless he switches to one of them.  Remember, he has to think about a person to access their power away from them.  So until he thinks of a person, his powers are just turned off in storage, regardless of whether they're passive or active.

Also, I'm pretty sure that if scar tissue forms, then Claire's power wouldn't be able to heal it.  There's a reason that scar tissue doesn't heal in real people, and I'm pretty sure that Claire has pierced ears.  On that note, maybe he gets wounded, then gets knocked unconscious shortly after before he can think of Claire, and then he stays unconscious long enough for the wound to heal and form a scar.
[/spoiler]

catwhowalksbyhimself

The rules of Peter's powers as far as I know.

1.  One power at a time (according to the writers, although we've been speculating this for a while)
2.  Normally, he must activate a power to use it, but there are two exceptions.
3.  When exposed to too many powers at once, he loses control of them and they seem to activate on their own
4.  When in close proximity to someone with power, that person's power will often switch on involuntarily.  This explains how

[spoiler]He healed after the shard of glass was pulled out.  Claire was the only one in the room with him, so it caused that power to activate involuntarily.[/spoiler]

stumpy

Conduit, I agree about the formation of scar tissue blocking other healing. Good call. If Peter was out (or unable to regenerate) for a substantial amount of time, the scar tissue idea is a perfectly good explanation. Of course, it would have to be for while, not just a few minutes or even an hour. And he would have to be in a state when scar tissue can actually form, e.g. not dead, frozen, in stasis, etc.

Cat, it seems like the writers are building sort of a delicate web with those rules. For example, as we've discussed before, I can believe Peter can only use one power at a time, but they've done a really poor job of showing that and they've made it pretty easy to believe the opposite. I'm not saying these rules are not workable (and I like the one-power-at-a-time limitation), but I hope they are careful in sticking to them so the whole thing doesn't come apart.

OutsiderNo11

Just so you all know, the graphic novels are still going.  Right now, they are focused on the Haitian and his background.

I like the graphic novels mainly because they give us some background on the characters as well as fill in some plot holes in the show (like how Sylar knew to impersonate Suresh when meeting Zane).

Uncle Yuan

Quote from: stumpy on June 09, 2007, 10:09:39 AM
Conduit, I agree about the formation of scar tissue blocking other healing.

From a physiological point of view, scar tissue is healed.

On a related note, it would be kind of cool to see a regeneration power that doesn't have the character wind up looking uninjured, but rather allowing them to rapidly heal "naturally."

catwhowalksbyhimself

In further news, Tim Kring has signed a multi-million dollar, 2-year deal with NBC.  Heroes is a big part of that deal, of course, but it also involves him developing other series for them.  Heroes was their only scripted mega-hit this year, so who can blame them for latching on.

JeyNyce


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