Ok first Secret Invasion #8 spoilers:
-Thor kills(?) Wasp by sucking her into a vortex. The Skrulls had turned her into a bio-weapon.
-Skrulls are defeated.
-All the replaced heroes are recovered, including (oddly enough) Mockingbird.
-Thor tells off Iron Man.
-Luke Cage and Jessica Jones's kid has been taken.
-The President puts Norman Osborn in charge of the Initiative.
-Norman calls forth the Evil Illuminati, Doctor Doom, Namor, Loki, the Hood, and Emma Frost, and make their plans.
I should note that I did not read the issue, and these spoilers come from online accounts and a look through.
Also I didn't see the Dark Reign Previews in person. I've seen pages online though. They'll be up tomorrow and I'll update where necessary.
And now Dark Reign starts:
New Avengers
writer: Brian Bendis
artist: Billy Tan
roster: Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Bucky, Ronin, Spider-Woman, Ms Marvel.
Mighty Avengers
writer: Dan Slott
artist: Khoi Pham
roster: Wasp (Hank Pym), USAgent, Iron Man, Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Hercules, Jocasta, Stature, Vision.
Dark Avengers
writer: Brian Bendis
artist: Mike Deodato
roster: Iron Patriot, Marvel Boy, Ms Marvel (not Carol), Black suit Spider-Man (not Peter), Wolverine (Daken), Hawkeye (Clint?), Ares, Sentry
Thunderbolts
writer: Andy Diggle
artist: Roberto De La Torre
roster: Ant-Man (O'Grady), Black Widow (Belova), Ghost, + others
Other notes:
-Osborn will replace SHIELD with HAMMER. They will try to bring in Tony.
-Bob Agent of Hydra returns in Deadpool.
I dont know if I believe any of the line ups. Until I see some real previews I'm not going to comment on what the teams are.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on December 03, 2008, 11:14:09 PM
I dont know if I believe any of the line ups. Until I see some real previews I'm not going to comment on what the teams are.
Oh I can post images too. There's just really bad quality. Better ones should be online tomorrow. But based off what I've seen so far those are the teams. Who knows what will be in the actual issues.
New Avengers:
http://i38.tinypic.com/2yyv887.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/30i7wo4.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/Dkernx4/4-1.jpg
Mighty Avengers:
http://i38.tinypic.com/ehhjz7.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/Dkernx4/3-1.jpg
Dark Avengers:
http://i37.tinypic.com/30c0ewj.jpg
Initiative:
http://i34.tinypic.com/2uz8qye.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/2ci9utl.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/2h379m1.jpg
Thunderbolts:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/BubbaKanoosh/1-1.jpg
Deadpool:
http://i37.tinypic.com/2rzrvp5.jpg
Quote from: Podmark on December 03, 2008, 11:29:45 PM
Quote from: murs47 on December 03, 2008, 11:29:09 PM
Quote from: Podmark on December 03, 2008, 11:05:11 PM
-Bob Agent of Hydra returns in Deadpool.
:wub:
I made sure to put that down just for you Murs.
If there was a "tears of joy" emoticon I would have used that instead.
Diggle on Thunderbolts is something I'm looking forward to as well. Glad to see Marvel gave him O'Grady.
I think it's great that Bob (really, ANYONE from a previous Pool run, preferably the runs I liked the most, i.e. Simone and C&D) is going to be in the book, but it's still going to be Way right (I assume so, since I haven't heard anything about anyone else writing the book). While I never read the new series, I've followed what people are saying about it (and looked at previews) and it doesn't seem like I'd like it. So just because Bob of Hydra is in the book doesn't mean he'll be written well.
But I digress, getting back to the topic at hand:
Hank as Wasp looks kinda odd to me, but also it reminds me of the Ultimate Yellowjacket in Ultimatum. I'm curious as to who the other Thunderbolts characters are; The Ghost is a pretty obscure villain; if not for a old Spider-Man comic I read years ago that featured him I'd never have heard of him. (If I recall he wore a suit that allowed him to phase through objects) It's kinda neat that the new Ant-Man is in Thunderbolts; that's a book I might be willing to give a try. Warren Ellis' book never really grabbed me, but maybe this new creative team would be more up my alley.
Is Marvel Boy supposed to Noh-Varr? I wonder who or what Iron Patriot is. My mind naturally goes to Iron Lad and Patriot of the Young Avengers, but naturally that's mostly wishful thinking as I was a huge fan of that series/team of characters.
Bendis is still on New Avengers, and it's still Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider-Man, ect, that's really my cup of tea, but who the new characters (Spider-Man, Hawkeye, Ms Marvel) are interest me to a degree. Could it be the return of Ben Reily? ;)
Mighty Avengers I'm looking forward to. The art looks a little funky (wasn't a Koi Pham fan when he did fill ins on X-Factor) but I might grow to like the art in time.
Marvel is really pushing Norman Osborn out of the Spider-Man corner of the Marvel U and into the center of it. I suppose that's no different that Dr. Doom or the Skrulls, but I don't think the Green Goblin was ever used in non-Spidey stories this way before.
Anybody notice that that pic of Thor has him in the old suit?
Quote from: Silver Shocker on December 04, 2008, 12:48:05 AM
but it's still going to be Way right (I assume so, since I haven't heard anything about anyone else writing the book)
Yeah he's still writing.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on December 04, 2008, 12:48:05 AM
The Ghost is a pretty obscure villain
I think he also appeared kinda in Avengers the Initiative. Gauntlet claimed Ghost had attacked him, but it was really Slapstick.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on December 04, 2008, 12:48:05 AM
Is Marvel Boy supposed to Noh-Varr? I wonder who or what Iron Patriot is. My mind naturally goes to Iron Lad and Patriot of the Young Avengers, but naturally that's mostly wishful thinking as I was a huge fan of that series/team of characters.
Bendis is still on New Avengers, and it's still Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider-Man, ect, that's really my cup of tea, but who the new characters (Spider-Man, Hawkeye, Ms Marvel) are interest me to a degree. Could it be the return of Ben Reily? ;)
Yeah Marvel Boy is Noh Varr.
Rumour is Iron Patriot will be Norman Osborn.
The other Dark Avengers are rumoured to be Thunderbolts in disguise but thats rumour.
Quote from: thanoson on December 04, 2008, 09:23:56 AM
Anybody notice that that pic of Thor has him in the old suit?
That's Clor, Thor's clone from Civil War.
I see we're ignoring Secret Warriors. :(
Let us remedy that. ^_^
This is a excerpt from Hickman's series outline:
QuoteSecret Invasion is over.
One man knows that in this new world - this darker now - the ideals he once served are broken relics of a greater generation... they are no more.
He knows his government can no longer be trusted, nor can any country or corporation. And no longer are heroes or vigilanters willing to do what is necessary - to do what it takes to make things right.
He knows this.
So he is moving all his pieces into place. He is assembling the players, and he is fully aware of the stakes... He knows what it will cost and he alone is willing to pay it.
Nick Fury has returned... and he has a plan.
Stature and Vision on Mighty Avengers :angry: ?
Why am I further denied a new run of Young Avengers?
Those line-ups are just weird - and what's with Dark Avengers being made up of also-ran versions of famous characters?
I just realized... There's going to be some sort of terrible love triangle with Scarlett Witch, Stature, and Vision, isn't there?
eeew...vision is a teenager and is based on Ironlad! Though, I hope they explain why Wanda would just end up on the Avengers again. She hasn't been touched on since Beast found her in that village and even "Young Avengers present" only had her in a panel or two.
I thought Vision 2.0 was destroyed during SI and I'm really hoping Kate isn't dead only maimed (which give her a chance of coming back).
Quote from: murs47 on December 04, 2008, 10:59:08 AM
I see we're ignoring Secret Warriors. :(
Wasn't ignoring it. Just hadn't seen anything from the Dark Reign Previews online yet. I'll correct that soon. :cool:
Quote from: Zippo on December 04, 2008, 12:25:02 PM
Stature and Vision on Mighty Avengers :angry: ?
Why am I further denied a new run of Young Avengers?
I'm actually very happy that Vision and Stature are on Mighty Avengers. Simply because they are two characters I like and it's a book I wanted to read. If there was a regular Young Avengers book I'd want them there, but that's not going to happen for a while so I like them being in Mighty for the interim.
Alan Heinberg and Jim Cheung are doing a project that will involve Kang and the Young Avengers, along with the greater Marvel U sometime in the future. I'm hoping this year. I'm hoping once that's done and Heinberg has told his story we'll get a Young Avengers ongoing.
Quote from: Zippo on December 04, 2008, 06:50:13 PM
I just realized... There's going to be some sort of terrible love triangle with Scarlett Witch, Stature, and Vision, isn't there?
I sure it will be touched on to some extent.
Quote from: Previsionary on December 04, 2008, 07:14:03 PM
eeew...vision is a teenager and is based on Ironlad! Though, I hope they explain why Wanda would just end up on the Avengers again. She hasn't been touched on since Beast found her in that village and even "Young Avengers present" only had her in a panel or two.
I hope so too. The first arc is supposed to have the team going up against a former Avenger so it could be her.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on December 04, 2008, 07:40:21 PM
I thought Vision 2.0 was destroyed during SI and I'm really hoping Kate isn't dead only maimed (which give her a chance of coming back).
He survived. He appeared somewhere later, maybe in Avengers: The Initiative, I think he was at Fury's base. I'm sure Kate is fine. I don't think they would do something drastic to the Young Avengers in a mini like that unless it was leading directly into something.
Full revealed solicits:http://comics.ign.com/articles/935/935702p1.html
I'll update some details above when I get a chance.
[spoiler]Ok, at the end of SI 8, a bunch of heroes that were supposed to be cloned emerged from the skrull ship. Everybody was who they were replaced by. What happened to the Captain America and Captain Mar-Vell? SHouldn't they also be in the ship?[/spoiler]
Quote from: thanoson on December 04, 2008, 08:26:41 PM
[spoiler]Ok, at the end of SI 8, a bunch of heroes that were supposed to be cloned emerged from the skrull ship. Everybody was who they were replaced by. What happened to the Captain America and Captain Mar-Vell? SHouldn't they also be in the ship?[/spoiler]
It was the real heroes that were replaced. But Captain America and Captain Mar-Vell weren't replaced. Both were deceased.
My understanding is that the Mar Vell that appeared in Civil War was always a Skrull and that his story about a time vortex was bubkiss. Of course he didn't know he was a Skrull because of his sleeper programming.
The Cap that appeared at the beginning of Secret Invasion in the Savage Land was just a skrull like all the rest of them. A distraction ploy by the Skrulls.
Yes, Mar-Vell was ALWAYS a skrull. That all played out in his miniseries and it P'd off a lot of fans. He also found out in the end of that series that he was a skrull, iirc, and I think it was referenced in at least two other issues...one being Thunderbolts. Captain America has too many of him running around right now including an old version of him (Invaders). Let's leave skrull Cap alone...please. Bucky is the only true Captain America right now and he will be for the foreseeable future until his time is up. There's no real lack of Steve though...There's been a ton of new mini series involving him coming out every other month.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on December 04, 2008, 12:48:05 AM
Bendis is still on New Avengers, and it's still Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider-Man, ect, that's really my cup of tea, but who the new characters (Spider-Man, Hawkeye, Ms Marvel) are interest me to a degree. Could it be the return of Ben Reily? ;)
Ben? Pweez?
So then, how did they get their memories and training/powers?
Quote from: thanoson on December 04, 2008, 11:09:12 PM
So then, how did they get their memories and training/powers?
The magicial/alientech process that created the sleeper skrulls just required a memory scan and a blood sample.. so I'm sure they had Steve's and Mar Vell's on file in their labs from previous encounters with them. Memories were not really a problem in their case since they could just make up something for their time away from Earth (i.e. Mar Vell being in a time vortex and Steve leading the other "heroes" on a breakout from a Skrull prison after waking up).
- CQ
I've been thinking about it, and I have really mixed feelings about this Dark Reign business.
First of all, I just can't wrap my head around why they would put Osborne in charge. The higher powers don't seem to have learned anything at all. Tony being replaced by Osborn, SHIELD with HAMMER, Starktech with Oscorp tech. The problem wasn't Tony, it was that one man had too much power, SHEILD as an organization wasn't answerable to enough people, and EVERYTHING was Starktech and therefore (apparently) vulnerable to a single sort of virus. Everything is being replaced with the same, just with different names, and it's supposed to be all better? That's not even mentioning the fact that Osborne is an "ex" villain and total nutcase. It just blows my mind how insanely contrived that is.
On the other hand, I am ridiculously intrigued by the whole concept.
And why is Emma evil now??????
Hefty 5 page interview of Bendis at IGN. Some good info there: http://comics.ign.com/articles/936/936219p1.html (http://comics.ign.com/articles/936/936219p1.html)
Norman begins his hostile(?) take-over in Thunderbolts #126 which came out last week. I'd recommend it to those that dropped the title after Ellis left or to those intrigued by Norman's rise to power.
This stuff with Norman and HAMMER sounds ugh.
They missed the perfect opportunity to fix one of the biggest mistakes in Marvel history by not having Norman turn out to be a Skrull.
Norman in charge is at least a little contrived but I like it. It's a nice way to take a character a move him beyond what he ever was before that still fits fairly well in his original concept.
The idea behind Dark Reign has some promise but I really need to see how it plays out. I thought the Initiative worked very well, but I'm not sure how most books will be able to use this effectively or where things will go.
I'd have been very upset if Norman had been a skrull. I'm not sure I liked that they resurrected him back during the 90s but they've done some stories I liked since then and I think there's plenty of use for him.
my predictions
[spoiler]Dark Avengers.... Could be Thunderbolts in disguise again (like the original team concept) Iron Patriot could be Norman (or even eke stane), Ms Marvel is moonstone, black suit spider-man could possible be venom, hawkeye is bullseye. Daken and Noh Varr are new recruits and could easily be lead to the dark side, while Ares has spent the better part of his marvel career being a villain, sentry is just there so they can keep his power in check.
Norman will use this team to discredit the other avengers even further, meanwhile the newer (more legit) faces on the Thunderbolts will help out the PR.
The republican Avengers won't be hunting down the Obamavengers anymore because that's what the dark avengers will do. They will probably be sidetracked into trying to hunt down the Hood and his gang for a few reasons a)norman's cleaning up the villain competition and b)to save face tony wants to start taking down bad guys and not his friends. maybe they could look better in the public eye. oh, and this series will be the angsty/emo series as hank and tony will deal with their losses while we get a 3-way robot/giant/mutie love triangle.
So what will the On-the-run avengers do? I think they will either be fighting with the dark avengers, or fguring out the evil illuminati mess.
But, then I think secret avengers will mostly deal with HAMMER and the secret illuminati, there will probly be a lot of cross pollination between New and Secret.
then next summer will be another BIG EVENT that will restore the status quo of the avengers and shield, and it should bring us around to just before avengers disassembled, but with a few changes, a core Avengers title with the big 3 (IM, Cap, Thor), a title with a mix of young avengers and b-list classic avengers, and (just like the x-force reboot) a pro-active Thunderbolts team that operates with a little black-ops. Finally there would probably be another title, headed by Luke, Jessica, Clint and maybe mokingbird. i think it would be a mix of Heroes for Hire and Current X-Factor.
And What the Heck is Emma doing with the evil illuminati? She's been developed so well by writers much more capable than bendis to be retconned.[/spoiler]
The Mighty Avengers won't be based in America.
I'm hoping there's a good reason Emma's in the Cabal. Like she's protecting mutants from them or something. Making her a villain again just like that would be terrible.
Quote from: Podmark on December 09, 2008, 09:30:52 AM
The Mighty Avengers won't be based in America.
I'm hoping there's a good reason Emma's in the Cabal. Like she's protecting mutants from them or something. Making her a villain again just like that would be terrible.
If you look at how the Marvel landscape is set-up now, all those players on the last page of SI#8 hold the majority of power in the world now. I think she's doing it in the interest of mutant kind like Pod said, not because she's secretly still evil.
I have one thing I'd like to see happen:
[spoiler]Apparently She-Hulk is being cancelled (no skin off my nose; in a perfect world, She-Hulk would still be written and drawn by John Byrne), so how about a team with Hawkeye (Clint, of course), Mockingbird and She-Hulk on it? Can you imagine the comedy, considering how Clint and Jen used to get along?[/spoiler]
And I think it would be cool if they form a renegade version of SHIELD. Nick Fury has shown to be resourceful plus I'm sure he's probably stockpiled equipment and files in case something happened. They could use an old SHIELD base thought to be abandoned or destroyed, with Nick having changed the security codes and beefed up the defenses, and have the team made up of former SHIELD members who are loyal to Fury and don't believe in what the government is doing and some reprogrammed LMDs (with precautions taken so no double agent LMDs or Deltites are around), with Black Widow, The Falcon, Bucky America and Sharon Carter being allied with them (if not outright members).
I read the Dark Reign one-shot today. So, about Emma being there...
[spoiler]She's not bad, Norman invites her to this meeting and has a proposition for her and the X-Men. What that is and if they'll accept it is unknown of now.[/spoiler]
Quote from: murs47 on December 10, 2008, 05:47:52 PM
I read the Dark Reign one-shot today. So, about Emma being there...
[spoiler]She's not bad, Norman invites her to this meeting and has a proposition for her and the X-Men. What that is and if they'll accept it is unknown of now.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Well thats good to know. Any other details Murs?[/spoiler]
More details? Sure.
[spoiler]Everyone there was invited by Norman. Except Doom since he's incarcerated by SHIELD, he's been there waiting.
He basically just proposes/forces deals on all of them. Which are all in their favor. He just wants the general public to view him as taming these individuals. Something none of the superheroes had ever done. These are the deals that Norman has agreed to help them with in return for future cooperation when needed.
- Loki wants Asgard off of Earth and in the "Heavens."
- Doom is freed and to be left alone to rule Latveria.
- Namor is promised the seas.
- Norman tells the Hood to have him and his goons register in the Initiative and tells him they can use it to make their crime organization seem legit.
- He tells Emma that the government is proposing concentration camps for mutants and that cooperating with him is in the best interest of mutant kind.
This was actually an excellent read. Which isn't surprising, Bendis has done a great job with Norman in Ultimate Spider-Man. The whole issue is them at this table discussing matters, but it was well done.
Oh, and Norman's able to force these deals and proposals because he's got a little buddy they're all afraid of. Norman cracks open a door and a shadowy figure is shown. He tells them: "If you don't do what I say, you'll be having a few words with my friend." They all start paying attention.
[/spoiler]
Hmm very interesting Murs.
[spoiler]If the Hood and his guys register with the Initiative I wonder if we'll see any of them in Avengers: The Initiative.
I wonder who Norman's friend is? I'm almost thinking someone like Sentry or Noh Varr. [/spoiler]
That was a decent read, very interesting on how the story is gonna play out with this group. But I gotta say, The art was so awful I didn't want to even turn the page. Since when does Namor look like a skinny Robert Englund? He looked absolutly nothing like any Namor I have ever seen...ug, and Doom's Armor was pretty rough as well, not to mention Loki's 2 HUGE....... :thumbdown:
Quote from: USAgent on December 11, 2008, 09:40:41 PM
That was a decent read, very interesting on how the story is gonna play out with this group. But I gotta say, The art was so awful I didn't want to even turn the page. Since when does Namor look like a skinny Robert Englund? He looked absolutly nothing like any Namor I have ever seen...ug, and Doom's Armor was pretty rough as well, not to mention Loki's 2 :thumbdown:HUGE.......
Yeah, can't say the art was spectacular...looked a bit rushed even. Another thing that bothered me was Namor. He seemed like a mindless jock rather then his usual self. Other then that, the issue was solid. Wish they would have previewed more of Secret Warriors. <_<
QuoteThat's Clor, Thor's clone from Civil War.
Hold on...wait a minute...please tell me you made that name up Pod...please tell me they didn't actually name the Thor clone..."Clor"...
Quote from: Courtnall6 on December 14, 2008, 08:44:15 PM
QuoteThat's Clor, Thor's clone from Civil War.
Hold on...wait a minute...please tell me you made that name up Pod...please tell me they didn't actually named the Thor clone..."Clor"...
Not in the comics, no. But Marvel heads(Joe-Q and such) would refer to him as Clor in interviews.
Quote from: Courtnall6 on December 14, 2008, 08:44:15 PM
QuoteThat's Clor, Thor's clone from Civil War.
Hold on...wait a minute...please tell me you made that name up Pod...please tell me they didn't actually name the Thor clone..."Clor"...
It was a fan name. Thor + Clone = Clor. Been used by Marvel brass too in interviews and such.
Supposedly Marvel tried to use the name but it was already copyrighted by a English band. His actual name will be Ragnarok.
Quote from: Podmark on December 14, 2008, 09:15:21 PM
Quote from: Courtnall6 on December 14, 2008, 08:44:15 PM
QuoteThat's Clor, Thor's clone from Civil War.
Hold on...wait a minute...please tell me you made that name up Pod...please tell me they didn't actually name the Thor clone..."Clor"...
It was a fan name. Thor + Clone = Clor. Been used by Marvel brass too in interviews and such.
Supposedly Marvel tried to use the name but it was already copyrighted by a English band. His actual name will be Ragnarok.
Thank gawd it was copyrighted, Ragnarok is much better.
Whew! I mean things are bad at Marvel these days...but at least they're not "Clor" bad!
Anywho...back to the the topic at hand...sorry about the interuption :D
So Marvel's doing viral marketing with Secret Warriors. If you look at the bottom right of issue 2's cover there's a post it with a web address and a password.
Cover to issue #2:
http://www.newsarama.com/preview_images/marvelnew/march2009/scrtwarriors002_cov-cv.jpg (http://www.newsarama.com/preview_images/marvelnew/march2009/scrtwarriors002_cov-cv.jpg)
Just thought it was somewhat interesting.
So I've been thinking about this whole "Dark Reign" scenario, and it's just not resonating with me. Norman Osborne kills the head skrull on live TV, and so he gets made head of everything - if Wolverine had been that one step quicker and taken her head off, would he be the head of faux-Shield now? (It could be called C.L.A.W.)
I realize I'm oversimplifiying (because it's also the failure of Stark-tech and the positioning of Osborne's own company) but aren't the governments of Marvel universe doing the same thing again? They were vulnerable because too much power was in the hands of one person, and when that one person was attacked and undermined, it collapsed. Now the one person they've replaced Stark with is Oborne. It seems pretty dumb that the failure of Stark's way of doing things would just lead to his replacement in what's virtually the same system; you would think it would lead to the overhaul of the system.
As a side note: why don't people know Osborne's the Green Goblin/crazy anymore?
Tal, I've had similar thoughts and I've seen this posted around the net. Norman's rise to power was simply too fast and doesn't make much sense in general. A lot of things don't make sense and I'm going to wait to see if it's made clear before the next inevitable event.
Not to Bendis bash or anything, but my general opinion is that he's at the point now where he has a bit too much power. He's done a few events now and they have all ended with a whimper and the outcomes haven't been all that great or even explained very well. I think he works much better on a smaller scale where he's not affecting entire universes with his story ideas.
But yeah, ultimately, I want a lot of aftermath done this time around. Not just aftermath, but plot development that isn't building up to another drawn out event. It wouldn't hurt for Marvel to slow down every once and awhile and let their decisions stick, spread out, and plant new story ideas that help to flesh out and reconfigure their current universal state. I'd enjoy it at least...meaning it won't happen. ^^
I think it's tougher for Norman's rise to resonate with readers who weren't reading Thunderbolts. There's a lot scheming by Norman. I knew he was up to something, but head of SHIELD was a shocker. I actually like the idea of the whole Dark Reign thing. Like Prev, I hope it sticks a while and we actually get some good stories out of it. Instead of it being another plot device for another big event. Meh.
Perhaps if Marvel placed more emphasis on Thunderbolts with advertisements pre and during SI. They used a big name(Warren Ellis) to get people's attention, don't know what else they could do. They had a bunch of one-shots as well. I don't remember too many cross-overs, if any. The covers were amazing too.
Going to add some info here from Ironman as it was pretty interesting:
Norman tried to get his hands on the superhero registration database, but it was all erased thanks to a virus Tony introduced into the system once he was removed from power. Tony set up the code to work once Norman tried to enter into the system illegally. There's only ONE database now and it's stuck in Tony's head. This means Norman should be going after Tony full force.