I literally just came from seeing the latest Indy movie. Here's what I thought...
I had fun. There was a lot of humor, a lot of action, a few points where it felt a little too "slick" somehow, but for the most part it captured the feel of the previous three. Is it a classic... no. Was it fun? Yes.
a more "spoilery" list of random thoughts.
[spoiler]
The I swear, Ford wears the Indy role like a well worn pair of jeans - a perfect fit. Even before you see his face, you already know this is the Indy we all know and love, maybe a little more grizzled, but still the same in the ways that are important.
Cate Blanchett - quintensential cold war villainess. It was like watching the evil daughter of Boris and Natasha, but I loved it. I don't know wny, maybe it was because it was so different than what I'm used to from her, but I just liked watchign her being evil. The psychic thing I could have done without, though it did lead to her demise, but the rest was classic cold war villainy.
Mutt... I thought I wasn't going to like him, but I did. GREAT entrance BTW. And he's got some great rapport with Ford.
Marion.... there's a reason she's the favorite "Indy" girl, and it's easy to see why. Call me a romantic, but I was glad they finally got togerther for good at the end.
I gotta say John Hurt "scruffies up" better than anyone else in Hollywood. When they finally cleaned him up, I didn't recognize him.
The movie starts off great and stays pretty good up until after the ants.. oh gads, the ants. I know you gotta have a swarm of some kind in an Indy movie and I gotta say those were the biggest, SQUISHIEST ants I've ever seen. While it has some "EWEWEWEWEWEW!!!" moments, it was somehow lacking compared to the other swarm scenes, and I think that was because a) it was outdoors instead of an eclosed environment, and b)it was a CGI swarm.
Anyway, as I was saying, the movie starts off great, and stays good for a while. IT peters out a little towards the home stretch unfortunately and hte climax was somehow... non-climactic. I mean it had a whole lotta stuff going in, the portal forming, the bad guy learing too much and literally frying her brain and everything else, the temple collapsing, etc. etc. But somehow it was.... lacking. It wasn't that it was aliens, that actually worked okay for me, but something about the staging just didn't work for me.
As I said, plenty of action, sometimes bending logic, like the chase through the jungle, but I still enjoyed it, primarily for the little moments during the chase.
So as I said, not classic, but still quite fun and I thought it was worth my price of admission.
[/spoiler]
I had very diminished expectations from the start, as I have always felt the series stood alone well and didn't need a 4th film. And unfortunately my expectations were met.
Its not so much that it was bad, more that it was just blah. It suffered from being boringly mundane and forgettable. 20 minutes after I got home, i couldn't tell you half of what happened or what the story really was. As Glitch Girl said, Harrison Ford wears the character well to this day -- and it was cool to see him back in it (even with some of the gratingly silly and annoying dialogue). And for the first third of the film, it had the potential to be not great but entertaining. But for me it lost steam...really fast, and by the end, I didn't care about the story (of which there is little anyway) or the characters. They were there to fill space, as none of them offered anything to the plot or the story other than standing around and moving from "cut scene" to "cut scene". The movie really just seemed to lack the heart and soul of what made the others so fun. It was as if Lucas and Spielberg watched the original trilogy, forgot they were the ones who made them, and did their best to emulate an Indiana Jones movie, only in a sub standard kind of way.
The saddest part for me was as i was leaving the show, all I kept thinking was that I wished I had gone to see Iron man again instead...
When I first got to the theater, I thought I was seeing "Indiana Jones and the Exorbitant Ticket Price". Then I started watching the film and then I thought I was seeing "Indiana Jones and the Straining of the Suspension of Disbelief." As the film progressed, It did get fun with multiple chase scenes (more than all the others combined, it felt like). I thought he found his stuff far too easily, being lost for millenia as it was. Mutt was pretty neat, though way too easy to suss out his deal. "We named the dog Mutt..." says I. The alien stuff was fine, I guess (it didn't stretch my disbelief as much as the firefights that hit nobody). Marion was great, Indy was Indy, and the overall pervading message of the film was "Stay in school, kids."
All said, I liked it. But it was no "Raiders"
[spoiler]I'm going to be straight up real!....IT WAS WACK!!!! :thumbdown:
The only upside to this was Mutt! They need to start making, "The Son of Indiana Jones" movies staring him! That last scene when the doors fly open with the wind and the hat flies up to Mutt. Instead of Indy snatching the hat and putting on his head. He should have, almost put it on his head and then put it on Mutt's, giving segway to "The Son of Indiana Jones" movies! Better ending! :angry: [/spoiler]
[spoiler] I think it was just the last 30minutes that ruined it. Up until Mutt started swinging in the trees like tarzen it was a strong sequel to all the previous films. The initial plot was pretty Indy, as was the russian involvement and the traditional physic/magical twist. The fact that is was based on the historical attempt at a physic invasion of America was nice too. However the Aliens took it too far, and the over-cgied fights in the second half really lost it for me.
You could tell as soon as you saw the skull that it was gonna be full of aliens and immediately my heart fell. Indy has always had its paranormal aspect come from religion, either Christian or another but I thought that Aliens were too far removed from the genre that defines this popular series. It just felt to me that good old GL wanted to make another Star Wars film or SS needed another ET to end his career. It felt forced and unneeded, having them come back to life and fly away back into the inter-dimensional-ether sounded far too much like Scientology's writings than an archiological adventure.
Admittedly the CGI was incredible, save the monkeys and the car fight, it was very realistic and it really does show how film has moved into the 21st century. The acting of Ford was also top notch, it felt just like the first three, albeit more haggard (but in a good way).
I did enjoy all the little references and in-jokes that filled the film. Although it felt cliché that was were this film really got its laughs. The chain swinging russian and fight with the ants very reminiscent of Raiders. The motorcycle chase around his Uni reminded me of the boat chase in Venice...
So in summary, it's problem was that it stretched belief too much. A set of films originally about a human archaeologist finding ancient artifacts and [temples turned into an alien filled, almost star wars like romp through a perfect-pathed jungle. I seriously advise seeing it, but leave before the end :P [/spoiler]
I thought it was amazing! A sequel after 18 years whos characters are still initially intact, is a good movie to me! At the very least it is leaps and bounds over Temple of Doom, That was a good movie but was not in true indy spirit!
Just got back myself. Spoilers ahoy - so read at your own risk.
First off, something I learned a long time ago was to keep your own expectations in check. Hollywood has this habit of doing things to boost ones expectations, Onion had a pretty good knock on that recently with their bit about them taking taking the perfect Iron Man trailer and possibly ruining it by making it a full movie.
Then there are the expectations that come from us. 3 good movies, 20 years later.... thats a lot of built up expectation, hard for anything to live up to, y'know? I'm not surprised when Lucas & Speilberg themselves told people - it's just a movie.
So I went into the movie with moderate expectations, to be entertained if nothing else. The movie did that just fine.
Beyond that, I had some issues ---- but nothing that kept me from enjoying the movie.
Seeing Ford and Allen reprise their roles like no time had passed was fun. While I thought the material between them was a little weak... it was just good to see. My one issue with Karen Allen was her constant smile, it just seemed so out of place. I'm not sure I can blame her though. I'm sure behind the cameras it was all smiles with everyone, but I wish she would have bit her lip or something while in front of the camera. Sadly, the one scene where her smile was really naturally needed... seemed a little faked. I wish that scene had been written a bit better and in more of an appropriate slower moment. It was a great idea, a great moment, tossed away in the middle of an action sequence.
Shia Lebeouf was by far the best new addition to the series. Good character, played well. Theres a huge amount of hate for this guy on the 'net and I don't understand why. Perhaps it has to do with his Disney background, I dunno' why. After all, Snake Pliskin' & Jack Burton was Disney's the Computer That wore Tennis Shoes (With 2 sequels!). Its unnecessary and sad to see. He's often been the best parts of some lackluster movies. I'm sure the hates increased because of the possible tease of a continuation of the series with his character as the focus.
Ray Winstone was fine as one of Indy's many sidekick, compatriots, or what not. I didn't like how he was tied in with Indy, but thats my issue with backstory that hopefully we'll never see and something I'll get to a bit later. He did a pretty good job of being likable and equally slimy without being too much of one or the other. His send off was a bit awkward though.
Jim Broadbent had some big shoes to fill, and did rather nicely. You know those scenes and lines were meant for Denholm Elliot. I really appreciated his scenes in the University office and he had the best lines of the film, especially of how life tends to give early and takes later.
Cate Blanchett does a fine job of being the main nasty in this flick. While being far from the series best baddie, she isn't the worst. While Belloq and Toht will always be the tops of my Indy baddies, on any given day or mood I can choose of the others as second best including her.
John Hurt was the one character I was a bit uneasy with. Good actor stuck with an awkward role. Not sure anyone else could have done a better job though and pretty much he was a victim of some bad writing, he was just short of a babbling idiot. His character eventually pulled out of it, but not fast enough for my tastes.
Thats a lot of characters, and with that... my first complaint.
Indy, Marion, Mutt, Mac and Ox. Thats 5 characters you have to handle and juggle for the action scenes in the last half of the movie. Something that requires some strong writing. Sadly, they didn't have it. It was too much all at once. To have each and every one of those characters be part of the action throughout the last half of the movie was a bad idea. They could have and should have handled it much better.
I had no issues with the story, but I was disappointed with the execution. I understood where they were coming from setting it in the 50's and the themes of the times, the Atomic nightmare, the schlocky sci-fi aspect of aliens, etc. The back of my mind I wondered if they were making issue with the Commie scare of the 50's and comparing it to the government most recently and their actions upon our freedoms to combat terrorism nowadays. It pulled me out of the movie for a bit and it was something I really didn't like.
Which leads me to my second complaint for the movie, the wartime backstory. Jones in the military? Jones as a spy? I don't like it. Especially when in a later scene Jones and Dean Stanforth lament politics and the Commie scare reaching so far into academia. Perhaps as a naive and idealistic young man, it fits better with the Adventures of Young Indiana Jones, which gets a nice tip of the hat so to speak as Indy explains to Mutt how he learned to speak one language. But and older and more educated Indy? No.
In the wartime I'd have best imagined Indy cooling his heels at the University and brushing up on studies to further pursue his adventures when the War ended or at least turning his interest to the places where the War was not causing chaos. After all, Indy as a character is at his best when he journeys forth on the adventure of knowledge (with some fortune and glory) with bits of luck getting him by. The war back story is just an awkward explanation for what he did during that time. Sure Indy is a man of action, but he is also a well educated man. I just don't see it.
In association with that, as mentioned before - the whole Commie scare thing was annoying as well. Not only was the bit of it introduced into the story with a heavy hand it was plain dropped after that scene. Poor writing again and at best, it really should have been left out. This by far is my biggest complaint, this whole scene, it pulled me out of the idea that I was watching an Indiana Jones movie.
Finally, I was pulled out of the move again at the climax with the CGI and the alien bit. Again it felt like at that moment I wasn't watching an Indiana Jones movie. I was fine right up until the crystal skeletons combined and it turned into a Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind outtake. As a whole, the end sequence wasn't too bad, but that portion was like a complete change of gears for me. Jarred me right out of the moment and I had a hard time enjoying the rest of the sequence because of it. I think the sequence would have been just fine without it.
Like everyone else, I have to say the Tarzan bit was groan inducing and damn poor writing for a characters entrance and exit in the same sequence. Anyone wanna lay bets down something that awful was Lucas' idea?
While winding down I have to say I still enjoyed the action scenes, the jungle chase was fine for me and I enjoyed it, despite it asking for more they should have.... like the 3 drops. The warehouse had its moments and the motorcycle chase was the best part of the film action wise for me.
To end this, I can best explain Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull this way. It's like getting together with an old friend after a long time and having another adventure for old times sakes. You have a good time and it had its moments, but it just never compares to those stories you tell about the days back when.
RTT
It was fun...I liked it. :thumbup:
The movie would have been ten fold better without the aliens and I blame Lucas for their addition. It felt like something where two people wanted to go in different directions and I think Lucas ultimately won. I didn't start enjoying the movie till Marion came on screen, up till then I was struggling to get into it, what with the ridiculous plot up to that point. You guys keep mentioning the monkey scene but what about the surviving an atom bomb in a freaking fridge bit? Even the impact of the thing hitting the ground would kill Indy and that's ignoring the fact he should have been incinerated, cooked, and/or a number of gruesome things. If they removed the aliens, focused more on history, the FBI (beyond portraying them as scarecrows), the commies, and his relationship with Marion/Mutt, it would have been a better movie.
Man, some of you guys are tough! The theater full of people I saw it with today loved it as much as I did, with plenty of howls of genuine laughter and enjoyment.
This Indy movie, like the first and the third in the series, was another pure fun rollercoaster thrill ride with so many little winks and nods to what had come before to really tickle me (especially the visual back to Raiders).
What's more, it had the single best romantic line in any action movie I've EVER seen, which I won't spoil since I never figured out how to make that disappearing scrolling-thingamiggie work. :doh:
Anyone who overthinks this movie is cheating themselves of a real good time.
QuoteMan, some of you guys are tough!
Tough? I think all of you are cutting it way to much slack...
Its only gotten worse the more I think about it.
I'm tellin ya, go back and revisit it in 6 months once the "newness" has worn off and you'll see...
Its one thing to turn off your brain... expecting me to remove it entirely and be impressed by the fact that there is lots of movement and colors, thats too much to ask.
And for the record, I'm not that picky. I LOVE Temple of doom...
Quote from: GogglesPizanno on May 25, 2008, 02:56:16 PM
QuoteMan, some of you guys are tough!
Tough? I think all of you are cutting it way to much slack...
Its only gotten worse the more I think about it.
I'm tellin ya, go back and revisit it in 6 months once the "newness" has worn off and you'll see...
Its one thing to turn off your brain... expecting me to remove it entirely and be impressed by the fact that there is lots of movement and colors, thats too much to ask.
And for the record, I'm not that picky. I LOVE Temple of doom...
I found temple of doom terrible after watching it the first time! But to each his own.
I've seen it a few times already, and it's still holding up. That's a good sign.
The aliens didn't bother me, since this is far from the first time that particular line of thought has been suggested pertaining to both South American and Middle East cultures.
Also, let's not forget that in the 50's pulp stories about aliens were HUGELY successful (see: War of the Worlds). Indy's just playing off that.
The refrigerator bit was far less believable. It wasn't the lead-lined survival, but the crash landing I had most of the beef with. Pulp heroes always survive somehow.
And I think the bad guys from the A-Team were better shots than those Commies :P
I've spent most of the past few days thinking about how to sum up this movie, and I think it can best be summed up in the word: rusty. It's been 19 years since there was an Indy movie, and since then Speilberg has become an "important" film director, and well, the less said about Lucas' film projects since then, the better.
I think they both had a great deal of difficulty in letting go of the ways they've changed in 19 years and returning to a style that would better suit Indy. Speilberg felt he had to cram an "important" message into the film, hence the pointless (and quickly abandoned) side plot about Indy being affected by McCarthyism, as well as not realizing that longer does not necessarily equal better. Lucas- well, Lucas' obsession with aliens and CGI is well known, and led to the films somewhat overblown finale.
Now, don't get me wrong- I liked the movie. It's not as good as the other films I've seen so far this summer (Iron Man and Prince Caspian), but overall I'd give it a solid B; which is higher than most movies get from me. And it's not like my expectations were high - I was more worried they were going to screw it up really badly, and they didn't. It was just nowhere as good as it could've and should've been.
The film couldve and shouldve been tighter- I'd argue that removing about half an hour of footage (the McCarthy Plot, the Ox character altogether - John Hurt was just wasted in such an incredibly pointless role; parts of the finale and the two specific sequences I'll discuss below) would've resulted in a stronger film. I lay the blame for that at Speilberg's feet.
Lucas gets the blame for the overblown finale. Being a firm believer in UFO's and the high probability that we were visited in the pst, I didn't have a problem with the concept; However, the alien shots were unnecessary and overlong, and Lucas gets the blame for that because he loves to linger on his aliens and on his CGI as if to play "Bet you can't tell this was CGI". But, of course, we can.
I'm not sure who gets the blame for the nuke/fridge sequence, but that strained my disbelief nearly to the breaking point. I was actually prepared to fanwank it away as residual afteraffects of the Holy Grail, till the movie Joss-ed me by saying that Indy's father had died.
Raiders was very clear in establishing that yes, Indy can do these incredible actions sequences- but he pays a price for them later. This was sadly diminished in every subsequent film to the point where he is now a cartoon character.
Other than that, Harrison did a darn fine job picking up the Hat and the Whip again. Easily his best performance in some time. Karen Allen was good, but the script replaced the "I'm your <bleep> partner" woman from Raiders to a fairly simpering woman whose sole purpose (other than realizing that she was driving a car that was also a boat) was to make goo goo eyes at Indy once he delivers the movie's best line.
Shia was fine, and I didn't have any problems with the character of Mutt. I had a severe problem with the Tarzan sequence, and how badly it was filmed, but that's hardly his fault. I'm not sure I'd watch a "Mutt Williams" movie; and I think it would strain credibility for him to be the third generation of archeologist.
Cate Blanchett was a little over the top as the villian, but as I read in another review- "Here was an actress who REALLY wanted to be in the movie, and it shows". I can hardly fault her for being enthusiastic.
John Hurt was wasted in a role that was completely unnecessary.
In summary, I'd like to think that this one knocked off the rust, and if they do go ahead and make a fifth and final Indy movie with Harrison (as Lucas is already talking about), it will be as superior to this as Last Crusade was superior to Temple of Doom.
Or maybe Indy suffers from a reverse of the Star trek curse- in this franchise, the even numbered ones are the weakest.
[spoiler]I loved it. It had a lot of goofy-retarded points that really bugged me. They didn't ruin the movie at all, but I just didn't see how they made it, being obviously ridiculous. The aliens definitely did not bother me, there's plenty of magic and stuff, why not ancient aliens. This movie is really really funny, and while it was cool to see Marion, she was a totally different character, with no accent or anything. I would recommend everyone see this.[/spoiler]
McCarthyism wasn't a subplot. It was the driving force of the 50s, and the driving force of the film.
Academics were exactly the kinds of people (along with Hollywood celebrities) who were targeted as communists and communist sympathizers, and who were let go from their jobs. The part about Indy's war record was perfect, too, because no one was exempt.
Aliens and communist psychics were perfect foils, too ... although most people were only familiar with the former, the latter was more of a state secret. The 50s were a time when UFOs buzzed the White House (52, I believe) and were front page news everywhere.
We later learned about this concerted effort on the part of the communists to use psychics in the cold war against the U.S.; there are countless books on the subject.
And rather than the refrigerator saving Indy from the nuke being a ridiculous mistake (and of course it was ridiculous) I believe that that was another nod to the 50s "wishful thinking" -- after all, it was a time when we were all taught that in case of a nuclear strike, all we had to do to be safe was "duck and cover" under our school desks.
Even Henry the 3rds constantly combing his hair was a homage to one of the great TV shows (and songs) of the 50s. There was a character named Kookie on a show called "77 Sunset Strip" that constantly combed his hair that way ... and it became a famous song at the time "Kookie, Kookie ... lend me your comb."
Like most things SS directs this was multi-layered, great action for the youngest of us, wonderful 50s references to the oldest of us.
I'm glad u liked it enough to give it a B ... but for us old foggies and ancient spirits out here, it was pure A+
Quote from: AncientSpirit on May 27, 2008, 09:22:46 AM
it was pure A+
Here, Here! Even better, I give it an A+B, giving it an A++! :D
You guys are crazy.... :doh:
Quote from: GogglesPizanno on May 27, 2008, 04:01:07 PM
You guys are crazy.... :doh:
or maybe you're crazy! CRAZY FOR HAVING A DIFFERING OPINION! Off with his head! and so on and so forth. ^_^
D-
I saw the first movie for the first time ever literally half an hour before I saw this crap
QuoteI saw the first movie for the first time ever literally half an hour before I saw this crap
And people call me crazy (see below...they really did)
Quoteor maybe you're crazy! CRAZY FOR HAVING A DIFFERING OPINION! Off with his head! and so on and so forth.
I admitted that I loved Temple of Doom...
Its clear that I'm off kilter!!
..but not necessarily wrong... :P
QuoteI admitted that I loved Temple of Doom...
Its clear that I'm off kilter!!
..but not necessarily wrong... :P
That's the great thing about opinions as subjective as these -- you can't be wrong! It's just how you precieved/enjoyed it ...
And as the car companies say, "Your smilage may vary."
:D
QuoteAnd as the car companies say, "Your smilage may vary."
True. And while I may not fall into agreement with the general consensus, I went and saw it with my dad (an old 50s hot rodder in his own right) and I know that he saw a lot of the same stuff you did. You could see the grin during the opening car chase in the desert...
3 points that made me doubt my enjoyment of the film. I really, really loved it, but...
[spoiler]
1) One of the best starts to a movie, the whole warehouse scene, broken by two thoughts: MAGNETS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY1 and Damn, Indy, you got OLD. After the first few minutes I mostly got over the whole age thing, which randomly popped up once in a while, but in the first few minutes it was pretty much all I could think of.
2) ...The fridge thing. While an absolutely brilliant reminder of the '50s (lead lined...heh, poor people who kept food in it) - it's actually been done before in another movie, to much better effect. When I see it hit the ground as hard as if its been shot out of a cannon, and he doesn't even have a bruise, no cracked skull, liquified ORGANS for galoshes sake...then my suspension of disbelief takes a trip down uh...huh :huh: ville. And how, exactly, did he open it from the inside? That lock is an awful reminder to us brits about those two kids who got trapped in the freezer playing hide and seek - once you got in, unless you were damn strong you weren't getting out.
3) CGI for every little tiny thing?
Water? Ok...thats cool, its, you know, a very big hole in the ground, CGI may be needed. Especially for such a span shot.
Aliens? ...Suspension of disbelief kinda out the window, I know its Indy and all, but hey, limits here. And yes, CGI definitely needed. Especially for crystal alien bones and spaceships that have somehow been hidden under incan ruins for millenia, gaurded by ancient undiscovered incan tribes that have survived to present day next to the amazon2, one of the most highly investigated and researched areas OF the rainforest.3
Monkeys and vines? Um...ok. Let that one slide. Other than apparently invulnerable human + strong independent female support turned into nothing more than nostalgic arm candy = boy who can control apes. :mellow:
Rocket Ships. Oh hell yeah. Hella cool, very well CGI-ed, and very applicable to the area. DEFINITELY needs CGI.
Gophers. Yes, thats right. Gophers?! WHAT?! WHY does a GOPHER need to be computer generated? In an Indy movie? Just...*twitch*4
1If its so powerful as to pull gunpowder, which is pretty light, horizontally and against gravity ...Remind me of what guns are made of again. And Jeeps. And NAILS holding WOODEN boxes toget- 4
2Yes, yes, I know more and more are discovered every day, but not next to the amazon river for Pete's sake. Not that pete, Pete pete. Over there.
3...I can't believe I just typed that last sentence.
4gotomyhappyplace, gotomyhappyplace[/spoiler]
Other than those 3 glaring things, I loved the movie - especially the joy riders at the very very beginning...and his shadow - and the villain was a really cool villain! And Indy's kid! And foreshadowing for a movie I hope never sees the light of day! And the COMB! the COMB! And the awesome so oh-my-god-this-is-an-indy-movie-line one-liners that made me squee!!. And again for added effect! SQUEE!! ^^ A good, in my mind, send-off for Indy. I hope they don't go the Star Wars route of making it a sextet, as Indy's best was his first three. Come to think of it...so was Star Wars O_o
QuoteI found temple of doom terrible after watching it the first time! But to each his own.
I always thought Temple of Doom was the worst one by a long shot, but Last Crusade been a childhood favourite of mine for as long as I can remember. Loves me the Sean Connery, "Jr."
Quote from: Protomorph on May 25, 2008, 11:01:30 PM
And I think the bad guys from the A-Team were better shots than those Commies :P
Is that even possible? They must have been really bad shots. Havn't seen the film yet but might see it on a weekend.
[spoiler]
The magnet in the warehouse didn't bother me much, but the fact that it could attract GOLD kinda ticked me off. [/spoiler]
What a silly little movie.
QuoteWhat a silly little movie.
Such the diplomat...
Diplomat, huh? I just didn't want to give a critique that would more than likely just be a rehash of things people have already said here. I agree with much of it.
But let's see...the bottom line for me is that the film makers, especially Lucas, are really out of touch with what people found great about their work in the past and with what people want from them now. I was never a big fan of Star Wars. Not the concept, but the first film. I always found it more boring than I'd like, even way back in '77. It's grown on me since then, but it's no Empire Strikes Back, which is my second favorite movie of all time. The years have taught me that my affection for Empire is more due to the work of Kasdan (co writer), Katz (co Producer) and Kirschner (director) than Lucas.
Here's a good example of what I'm talking about. The upcoming 3D animated Clone Wars "movie" and series seems like a big missed opportunity to me. Why oh why are we revisiting Anakin's story? He's a good kid who went bad, I get it. Telling more of his story dilutes the mystique of Darth Vader and weakens the overall narrative of the saga. As long as the darned thing is going to be animated why don't they do stories about Luke, Leia and that gang instead? I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that more people would be interested in seeing fresh new stories about them rather than about a bunch of characters whose fates we already know. Set it during the original saga years or better yet show us their further adventures after the Empire's defeat so that we can invest something in them not knowing what is going to happen.
This seems like a simple idea to me and the fact that Lucas is ignoring that and dwelling on young Anakin yet again tells me that he really doesn't get his audience at all. Ah well...
Which brings me back to Indy. The things that made Indy great in the past is that they really weren't kiddie movies inasmuch as they were movies that could appeal to the kid inside of us all. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a kiddie movie made by people who, frankly, aren't good at making straight kiddie movies. That Tarzan bit is so over the top and lacking in any believability that it comes off just looking stupid. It may have looked good on paper, and with some retooling might have worked in the execution, but someone stopped at the idea of "hey let's do this" and didn't really move ahead to the "yeah let's, but let's make it work".
The movies have too many of those kinds of ideas and comes off looking silly because of it.
Frankly, the real underlying problem is that Lucas and Spielberg are simply too big. They need people around them who are willing to tell them when they have a bad idea, but they clearly don't. Kasdan did. Kirschner did. Katz did. But those guys are all gone now and the work suffers for it.
OT, but I thought the "Clones Wars" TV series was launched due to Lucas seeing how well-received the original cartoon series (from the team behind Samurai Jack) was. Of course, the Samurai Jack team has nothing to do with this new series.....
Well, I'm not sorry I saw it, because there were several fun bits, but overall....?
Too much is too much.
(Spoilers Ahead)
Now I can suspend my disbelief for Indiana Jones, because he does some pretty amazing stuf. Of course it's just a movie, but...
- Surviving a nuclear blast because you are in a refridgerator
- Swinging through trees on vines faster than speeding cars that already had a big head start
- Jumping a car off a cliff, onto a tree branch, which bends perfectly down to the water (balanced the whole time), before dring off the tree branch into a river, where your car floats, and riding it off of two cliffs, staying with this car and continuing to ride in it
-There was more, but I don't want to beat a dead horse.
And the worst part...?
Aliens.
In an Indaina Jones movie. Ugh. I just shook my head while watching the movie. To me, aliens just don't fit into a Indiana Jones movie at all. Terrible decision. Ruined the movie for me. Basically unforgoivable to me. What a shame.
As for Temple of Doom.... while it was the weakest of the first three films, it is much better than Skull. It belongs in the trilogy. This X-Files sequel thing doesn't fit into the Indiana Jones mythos at all.
I have to disagree with Mowgli to an extent.
The Crystal Skull is a legitimate artifact. The origin, and for that matter the date of origin, is a point of contention. What is not a point of contention is that the skulls have been believe to be something of "paranormal connection" to New Age enthusiasts for decades.
As for the Aliens connection, I don't think it was initially too far out of the realm of "Indy territory" initially. The crash that allegedly happened in Roswell, area 51, and the growing amount of "alleged alien and UFO sightings" since the 40-50s were of the right time period that the movie took place in. So that much of it worked for me.
The mental ability stuff? That worked too for the most part. I do believe that Lucas and Spielberg were about 10 years too early with it unless they were trying to imply that the Russians were allegedly experimenting with psionics THAT much earlier than the US was allegedly experimenting with them.
There was so much about the movie that WAS DEAD ON what it should've been. The film was not meant to take place immediate after "Indy and the Last Crusade" and I think that's what a lot of fans who have been complaining about it were expecting or wanting. Personally, I think that is a bit much to ask.
HOWEVER! I do agree in a minor way with something Mowgli pointed out.
[spoiler]
Showing the alien ship was a bit much. I didn't mind showing the alien corpse at the beginning or that the skulls were alien. I didn't mind the climax showing the skulls reattached and them destroying the room.
BUT THAT SHOULD"VE BEEN ENOUGH. Maybe show the structure collapse afterwards. Showing the ship though was too much. And what more, it completely destroyed a few points that were set up earlier in the script. (ie: connection to the Roswell crash) or at least made the points invalid.
[/spoiler]
Spielberg and Lucas took a great idea but killed it by pushing the logic of it too far. Aliens and the paranormal fit in fine at the beginning of the movie given when the movie takes place but by the end, they ruined it by showing too much "alien".
Finally got to see this movie. To sum it up, I enjoyed it. I wasn't expecting it to be amazing or anything, but it was just a fun, entertaining movie. Better then Temple of Doom, at least in my opinion. Gosh, Temple of Doom was just annoying. Especially that little kid... guh.
So, I could write out a review with some nitpicks that were in the movie, 'cause let's face it, there were some. But I'm not mainly because I'm too lazy, and also because it would take far too long. But all you need to know is that it's a good movie. It's not the next Raiders, or Last Crusade, but I think it's made it's spot firmly on the Indy trilogy... which would now make it a what, quadrupilogy? *shrugs*
FORIAMSPAM!
Ive already been pretty vocal in my dislike for the film... And I am pretty much in the minority. Thats cool. I can accept that.
But I feel i need to step up in the defense of Temple of Doom.
Just as the new film is not near as good as you think it is...
Temple of Doom is not near as bad. I think it succeeds in all the ways people think crystal skull did.
Moments of Annoying? You betcha... But annoying in that somehow fitting way... i.e.
[spoiler]
No Tarzan Monkeys, No Rubber Looney Tunes Tree (friends term not mine), No Aliens, and No "Nuke the Fridge (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nuke%20the%20fridge&defid=3115857)"
[/spoiler]
Kali Ma, Shakti Day!!
I'm going to be in the minority here, but so be it.
I pretty much hated the movie. In fact, to keep things short, my opinion is exactly identical to everything Mowgli posted. 100%, couldn't agree more.
I knew I was seeing a bad movie when they nuked the fridge. That scene alone was so outlandish to me. My girlfriend saw the look of utter disbelief on my face after that scene and says to me "hey...it's Indiana Jones", but then I saw the same exact look on her face after they introduced the aliens. And the Tarzan scene? Yeah, just like Mowgli said, I'm beating a dead horse.
This wasn't Indiana Jones. Seeing Harrison Ford return as Indy is really the only positive thing I can say about this movie. Kate Blanchett and Shia LeBouf were good, but nowhere near enough to save this movie. This was easily one of the biggest disappointments I've seen in a while, and that kills me to say.
The only other thing I can say about it that hasn't been pointed out is that to me, it felt like there were two movies merged. Had this been a completely new franchise with the alien stuff, I'd like it. But this was not Indiana Jones, and frankly, I'm shocked to see how many people liked it...
Nuke the fridge...I can't believe that's already an official internet term now. Really, what were they thinking?? I remember watching interviews with Ford saying he wanted to make improvements on the script during Star Wars (because Lucas really sucks at writing dialog), so, um, why didn't he say "uh, this nuking the fridge idea is retarded, guys"? Gahhhhh just thinking about it makes me frustrated, lol.
everyones forgetting about the ants... THE ANTS!!
at that point my GF said to me, "I really don't like this movie."
lol, I didn't forget the ants. I just don't think that part is nearly as bad as all the other bad scenes. It was really over-the-top, but way more plausible than nuking the fridge and the tarzan/monkey scene. Seeing them "build a ladder" of themselves to go after Kate Blanchett's character was a lot to take in too, but I remember seeing some African ants actually doing something similar on the discovery channel so that didn't bother me as much.
more on the aliens. Even though there are myths about them concerning early civilization, I still don't think it belongs in the Indiana Jones mythos. Certainly not how its portrayed in the movie with the corpses and the ufo at the end. Like I said, had they put this part of the story in an entirely new adventure franchise I probably would have liked it a lot more, but not in Indiana Jones.
I think what many people were expecting was The Last Crusade Part 2 and that is false hope, might i add that aliens pretty much were the only major phenomenon in the 50s. So while every one is putting it down i thought i might throw in that yes the nuke the fridge scene is unrealistic, but think about it. He would have been protected from the radiation, the hindges on the door would be soft when he landed so he could have gotten out, and really why would they put indy into a coma at the begining of the movie? So of course he is going to be unharmed. For a movie that was already 6 feet under during its developement, i think it was much better than previous drafts. Just think if the aliens bug you now what would you have done after Indiana Jones and the Saucer from Mars.
http://www.sheldoncomics.com/
Quotehttp://www.sheldoncomics.com/
Ding Ding we have a winner!
Quote from: GogglesPizanno on June 08, 2008, 11:36:39 AM
Quotehttp://www.sheldoncomics.com/
Ding Ding we have a winner!
Not completely. Spielberg shares the blame, after all.
Quote from: bredon7777 on June 08, 2008, 02:12:34 PM
Quote from: GogglesPizanno on June 08, 2008, 11:36:39 AM
Quotehttp://www.sheldoncomics.com/
Ding Ding we have a winner!
Not completely. Spielberg shares the blame, after all.
I'm pretty sure Spielburg is the one kept this move from
completely sucking.
RTT
Cute clip (though i stand my ground firmly on this subject) up till that whole back to the future thing. That one hurt. I LOVE that movie! I mean after all split up my name, as well as the quotes (to your left and to your bottom)... Told ya! I'm also decent with trivia on the 3 movies.
Quote from: RTTingle on June 08, 2008, 04:22:29 PM
Quote from: bredon7777 on June 08, 2008, 02:12:34 PM
Quote from: GogglesPizanno on June 08, 2008, 11:36:39 AM
Quotehttp://www.sheldoncomics.com/
Ding Ding we have a winner!
Not completely. Spielberg shares the blame, after all.
I'm pretty sure Spielburg is the one kept this move from completely sucking.
RTT
That was my feeling from interviews with them both about it . also. I pretty much agree with renegade's comments earlier also.. it really wouldn't have taken much to really clean this movie up nicely. I agree about Kasdan( huge fan of his work0 and lets not forget that SF writer Leigh brackett did most of the writing on Empire Strikes back ( but died before she finished the screenplay. I think Lucas in paticular has had others to clean up and lift up his ideas or even provide the spark.
I personally enjoyed all 3 Star Wars prequels more than Indy 4... :banghead:
well, the original script is out again and: CLICK (http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/06/raiders-of-fran.html)
Apparently, Ford and Steven liked it, George Lucas did not. So, I guess you can put more blame on him than Steven. Also, no Shia character.
WARNING: site contains some cursing in comments so...proceed with caution.
I just saw this movie and I read some you guys's opinions first so I was expecting to hate it....but I thought it was good. It had some good funny moments. There was some awkardness but it wasn't too bad for me. As the series goes this fits well in there with the other 3. I suppose one major difference might be that I thought the first 2 movies were just so so, so the fourth one didn't have much to live up to for me.
I especially like the very end. That was some nice closure to the series IMO.
EDIT: I thought the fridge scene was funny! Much funnier than him running from a giant rock in the orignal movie.
QuoteI thought the first 2 movies were just so so
BLASPHEMY!!
QuoteI thought the fridge scene was funny! Much funnier than him running from a giant rock in the orignal movie.
HEATHEN!!!
QuoteI especially like the very end. That was some nice closure to the series IMO.
(To quote Darth Vader)
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Riding into the sunset is always a classier ending.
sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who hated this film. At least 5 of my friends liked it, and even my own mom, who normally doesn't like big action movies like this. I mean, she didn't like Batman Begins or The League of Extraordinary Gentleman, but thought Indy 4 was good? And one of my best friends freakin hated Narnia 2, but thought Indy 4 was decent. Some people make no sense.
I must be blind though. How the hell does this 4th installment fit in well with the series?
Saw the movie a week or two ago, after avoiding this thread like the plague, to avoid spoilers and forming preconcieved opinions. I pretty much liked it.....up until a point. The car chase through the jungle dragged on for *way* longer than it needed to, and the less said about the monkeys, the better. I was ok with the alien plot, until it got to be too much at the end. The skeletons, the ship, the *huge* hole in the ground after it left....too much. I shoulf have left the theater feeling like I did after Iron Man and Transformers, but instead I felt more like I did when I left after Spider-Man 3 and Fantastic Four (1&2).
For other points people have brought up about it, I'll start off by saying:
Quote from: AncientSpirit on May 27, 2008, 09:22:46 AM
McCarthyism wasn't a subplot. It was the driving force of the 50s, and the driving force of the film.
Academics were exactly the kinds of people (along with Hollywood celebrities) who were targeted as communists and communist sympathizers, and who were let go from their jobs. The part about Indy's war record was perfect, too, because no one was exempt.
Aliens and communist psychics were perfect foils, too ... although most people were only familiar with the former, the latter was more of a state secret. The 50s were a time when UFOs buzzed the White House (52, I believe) and were front page news everywhere.
We later learned about this concerted effort on the part of the communists to use psychics in the cold war against the U.S.; there are countless books on the subject.
And rather than the refrigerator saving Indy from the nuke being a ridiculous mistake (and of course it was ridiculous) I believe that that was another nod to the 50s "wishful thinking" -- after all, it was a time when we were all taught that in case of a nuclear strike, all we had to do to be safe was "duck and cover" under our school desks.
Even Henry the 3rds constantly combing his hair was a homage to one of the great TV shows (and songs) of the 50s. There was a character named Kookie on a show called "77 Sunset Strip" that constantly combed his hair that way ... and it became a famous song at the time "Kookie, Kookie ... lend me your comb."
Like most things SS directs this was multi-layered, great action for the youngest of us, wonderful 50s references to the oldest of us.
I'm glad u liked it enough to give it a B ... but for us old foggies and ancient spirits out here, it was pure A+
Thank you for saying all of that so I didn't have to! So much of that hit things right on the head. I think the problem they ran into was that they were using points that are less known about than they think they are, showing that they're both out of touch with present day audiences.
I knew the second there wasn't any water at the house in the desert where he was, and what they were going to lead up to. And I was giddy thinking about how Indy was going to react to it all, wondering how he was going to get out of it. For everybody that couldn't hang with the fridge scene (especially Goggles), how much more of a stretch is that than riding a life raft down to a mountain from an airplane? You have to keep in mind the spirit of the genre Lucas & Spielberg were trying to capture, and take it for what it is.
Indy's activities during the war also weren't a contradiction of character, as his experiences with the Nazis would convince him just how much of a threat they would be if they got their hands on the wrong items or info. While it wasn't stated one way or the other, I'm sure he started out in some kind of advisory role, but as we all know, Indy can't *not* get involved in the action, so ending up with an actual comission, to give him the authority that he needs to get things done, or even as an after-action, to spin some semi-sanctioned activities into official business, is a logical sequence of events. And "spy" work suits Indy better than running a supply depot, developing battlefield strategy, or commanding a tank division. Working (mostly) alone and gathering information is what he does best.
Just because movie makers are out of touch with the current general public's movie expectations doesn't automatically mean they made bad choices, nor that there's no audience for their movie. However, it doesn't excuse *every* problem with a movie, either.
Quotesometimes I feel like I'm the only person who hated this film.
You are not...
QuoteFor everybody that couldn't hang with the fridge scene (especially Goggles), how much more of a stretch is that than riding a life raft down to a mountain from an airplane?
I get to hate on the fourth AND defend the Second in a single breath...I'm giddy :P
Actually, I understand the argument that is being made there in theory. But suspension of disbelief is like art appreciation in that every persons response is gonna vary. The raft scene in ToD, was ridiculous, but at least seemed credible in the sense that they physically did it (granted it was with miniatures) but there was a physicality to it that you don't get with CGI, so while you may not believe that someone could have survived it, there at least was a feeling of "The thing sorta floats and slows the decent" cause there was a physical thing actually doing it. The Fridge WAS HIT WITH A NUCLEAR BOMB... I'm sorry that goes beyond fun loving spirit and into the realm of "Oh Come On" but that my personal opinion.
And from my standpoint, all the communist, McCarthyism plot points were a really solid premise and had they done something good with them, I think it could have been awesome. But no, it was a film that had some great ideas in there, but with really poor execution that got bogged down in stupidity.