One huge spoiler concerning Batman in final crisis
http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13
I sure hope this is not true, although the information has green light on it.
I don`t like the idea at all, this is wrong in so many ways! First of all it reminds me too much of the current Captain America/Bucky situation, heck even Alex Ross is involved! :angry:
It's better than what was apparently the original plan, which was for the same thing to happen to ALL the major heroes.
And this is why I don't read Marvel and DC comics anymore. I got sick of them screwing around with the universes, making permanent changes for temporary sales boosts.
As far as I'm concerned, the universes are forever trapped in time in the mid-to-late 90s, before everything went COMPLETELY to hell.
Why Todd? Grayson is a much better choice. It's like DC and Marvel just keep stealing ideas from each other with their "dead" sidekicks.
Interesting. I always thought of Tim taking up the mantle when Bruce hung it up, but I guess he's not quite old enough yet.
He was 14 (?) when he was introduced, which makes him around 25.
He's old enough.
He was recently adopted by Bruce, so the oldest he can be is 17. Or 18, if Bruce adopted Tim right before his birthday.
Time progresses so fast in the DC universe. :rolleyes:
"Ohhhhhh I hate it soooo much!!!"
- (My actual reaction when reading the articles.)
It`s really sad when a company needs to kill off a character that has been around for 60 years just to boost sales. I will buy that comic, but it will be the last DC comic book that I bought!
But on the other hand it may be just a rumor, I really see no point in killing off their currently best selling character, besides, Didio has stated on several occasions that Bruce Wayne will always be Batman.
Who knows...
If true ...
I gotta tell ya'll - it's crap like this in comics that really hacks me off. If I hadn't quit collecting comics regularly back in in the 90s, this would have done it for me again.
I was really steamed when we lost Flash (Barry Allan) and Supergirl after the original Crisis in '85, but was somewhat pleased when Wally took over the role afterwards. Later we saw the loss of Green Lantern (Hal Jordon), Green Arrow (Oliver Queen), with younger folks moving in to take their places. For a short couple of issues after the KnightFall Saga, we saw Dick Grayson cover the Batman duties for a recovering Bruce Wayne.
Finally, I thought. The new generation of DC characters is taking over the DC universe and replacing the Silver/Bronze Age characters.
Yeah ... right. I should have known better.
A new generation of sidekicks appeared - Robin (Jason Todd then Tim Drake), Green Arrow II (son of Oliver Queen), Kid Flash (Bart Allan), Wonder Girl (Cassie Sandsmark) - but the Golden Age primaries for the most part were busy returning to reclaim their original roles. And the original sidekicks - they were exiled to third and forth-tier titles or retconned into confusing oblivion.
Jeez, D.C. Make up your friggin' minds.
Now Hal Jordan is back and Kyle Raynor is a demented demigod. Oliver Queen is back - or was back. Or did he get married or killed off again. Wally was retired as the Flash and replaced by Bart Allen, who quickly died and replaced by - Jay Garrett?? Donna Troy was killed, but she's feeling much better now.
And now yet another new Batman is NOT Dick Grayson??? Spare me ...
And don't EVEN get me started on Marvel!!
....
Okay, apologies all. Rant over.
I don't necessarily have a problem with heroes dying and being replaced, if done well, I just question the choice of replacement, since Dick has more than earned it.
Besides, Bruce WILL still be around.
Quote
Wally was retired as the Flash and replaced by Bart Allen, who quickly died and replaced by - Jay Garrett??
umm--isn't it Wally who replaced Bart?
This saddens but doesn't surprise me. These companies really will do anything to make a buck.
I thought I was ticked off at the last issue of Supergirl -- which gave me 40 panels of "art" in a row without any dialog, narrative or discription.
I thought I was ticked off that no one over at DC knows what Lois Lane looks like any more.
I thought I was ticked off at the several last issues of Action Comics that read more like a bad Bizarro sit-com than a comic book.
But none of that compares to killing off Batman.
After a 112 years of reading these things, I think I may finally have had enough.
i call bull on it.
Quote from: AncientSpirit on November 20, 2007, 04:05:16 PM
After a 112 years of reading these things, I think I may finally have had enough.
You're old. :P
Quote from: Podmark on November 20, 2007, 08:56:14 AM
Why Todd? Grayson is a much better choice. It's like DC and Marvel just keep stealing ideas from each other with their "dead" sidekicks.
Todd's cool! Eh heh heh heh.
Quote from: murs47 on November 20, 2007, 04:16:29 PM
Quote from: AncientSpirit on November 20, 2007, 04:05:16 PM
After a 112 years of reading these things, I think I may finally have had enough.
You're old. :P
Nope. Ancient! ;)
QuoteQuote
Wally was retired as the Flash and replaced by Bart Allen, who quickly died and replaced by - Jay Garrett??
umm--isn't it Wally who replaced Bart?
You're probably right, cat. I really don't follow the characters as closely as I used to. IIRC, I picked up Jay Garret's name as a rumor at my comic shop.
If I have it correctly--when Wally first left, Jay was the last flash, to be replace soon by Bart, who now died, being replaced after by the returning Wally.
Yeah, that is rather confusing.
I saw the title to this thread and instantly thought it was about the revelation of the "Kree Savior" in the fourth issue of Quasar for the Annihilation Conquest, or who the "brain" behind the phalanx really is.
Starlord was still the best of the four series...
Wait, wait, wait. Does this mean Batman Beyond isn't in continuity now that Bruce'll die before retiring? :(
Batman Beyond has NEVER been in continuity. Not in the comics anyway.
One of the 52 parallel universes, however, has been mentioned as the home of a version of Batman Beyond.
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 21, 2007, 05:58:57 AM
Batman Beyond has NEVER been in continuity. Not in the comics anyway.
One of the 52 parallel universes, however, has been mentioned as the home of a version of Batman Beyond.
i think sits actully the DCAU thats the world. batman beyonds appearance was just bizzaro time travelling as well as jumping worlds. it should also be noted that it was tim not terry in the suit
Actually, this doesn't bother me quite as much as killing off Steve Rogers.
Bruce Wayne has pretty much become a caricature of himself over the years, in certain treatments of the character. His obsession over his parents' death has been elevated to levels of more-than-questionable sanity. He's gone from being the Darknight Detective to something bordering on the inhuman. Someone capable of creating the OMAC's and worse. He's so paranoid and controlling that he's capable of practically anything and doing it to practically anyone.
But being human, he's got to go sometime. The odds would be bound to catch up with him sooner or later. And he's got more than one sidekick waiting in the wings who could take the mantle and who have similar motivations. You wouldn't necessarily lose the essence of Batman in the transition, and a 'reboot' to his roots as a master detective and feared scourge of crime might be a good thing. Lose some of the more overblown characteristics Batman has picked up over the years.
Dick Grayson is one choice, but his identity has been well forged in Nightwing and I really don't see him taking up the Batman name. If anything, this could lead to interesting confrontations between Nightwing and a new Batman. Even butting heads with other heroes of the DCU in ways that wouldn't happen with Bruce. I'm not quite as familiar with the other Robins, so I could be missing something important.
Still, comics being what they are, restoring Bruce Wayne as Batman is never more than a few issues away.
With the multi-universe now they will be coming up with a lot of these stories. It will be on different earths. At some point the Justice Society has got to move to another earth. Red Robin (Jason Todd) is coming into being at some point. We have heroes migrating from one world to another. We are getting different versions of heroes LSH. Bruce Wayne will always be the Batman even if he comes back from the dead. Which most heroes do.
Quotei think sits actully the DCAU thats the world. batman beyonds appearance was just bizzaro time travelling as well as jumping worlds. it should also be noted that it was tim not terry in the suit
Not talking about that, although the name Tim was as mistake, the writers intended it to be Terry.
Nope, and previews for the event (Countdown--Arena) where various alt universe version of heroes fight each other to prove who is worthy to join Monarch's new army against the Monitors, one of the Green Lanterns is described as being from the world of a "Batman
beyond anything imaginable" italics in the original statement.
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 21, 2007, 05:58:57 AM
Batman Beyond has NEVER been in continuity. Not in the comics anyway.
But, at least, there was the possibility of being canon. :(
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 21, 2007, 05:58:57 AMOne of the 52 parallel universes, however, has been mentioned as the home of a version of Batman Beyond.
Yeah, I'm looking for the TPB of that series of Superman/Batman.
QuoteYeah, I'm looking for the TPB of that series of Superman/Batman
Sigh. As I just said, that was pretty much not that world. In fact, I'm pretty sure that issue was before the multiverse was actually restored, so I don't consider anything that happens there to be legitimate.
Civil War - Infinite Crisis
Chop and change The Avengers - revamp the Justice League
Kill Captain America - get rid of Batman
and many more.
Am I the only one who doesn't see the appeal of the echo-effect in storylines between the two publishers? It seems like a creativity stifling practice.
Quote from: Jakew on November 21, 2007, 02:40:56 PM
Civil War - Infinite Crisis
Chop and change The Avengers - revamp the Justice League
Kill Captain America - get rid of Batman
and many more.
Am I the only one who doesn't see the appeal of the echo-effect in storylines between the two publishers? It seems like a creativity stifling practice.
In my opinion Civil war has nothing to do with infinite crisis... you've got one of the most fantastical (multiverses coliding) and one of the most mundane (laws being enforced) series side by side. Maybe Secret wars would be a lot more similar to Crisis...
Now on the This = That discussion I have this to say:
Jason Todd = Jean Paul Valley. If the last psycho Batman didint last no way this one will either.
I liked Az Bats...but I must ask why is it that Grayson is never given the mantle? I guess no one who was a Teen Titan can become Batman...hehehe.
Dick has been Batman before. Shortly after Bruce returned and kicked Az Bats' arse, Dick took on the role of Batman for one story arc while Bruce went and wrapped up a few things before becoming Batman again, or something like that. However, it was understood that Dick would just be filling in at the time.
I believe the arc with Dick as Batman was either "A Lonely Place of Dying" or took place right before or after it.
Quote from: lugaru on November 21, 2007, 03:14:21 PM
Jason Todd = Jean Paul Valley. If the last psycho Batman didint last no way this one will either.
Since his return, I've always thought of JT as a bit like Ra's Al Ghul. Just the strong personal connection with Batman. The same goal as Batman, but with a different method of achieving it. I honestly loved JT as the Red Hood and I'm sad to see it go. Every writer besides Winick seems to really dumb him down and make him less formidable, sadly. :(
Quote from: GhostMachine on November 22, 2007, 11:06:56 PM
Dick has been Batman before. Shortly after Bruce returned and kicked Az Bats' [expletive deleted], Dick took on the role of Batman for one story arc while Bruce went and wrapped up a few things before becoming Batman again, or something like that. However, it was understood that Dick would just be filling in at the time.
I believe the arc with Dick as Batman was either "A Lonely Place of Dying" or took place right before or after it.
It was `Prodigal son`.
Quote from: thalaw2 on November 22, 2007, 07:13:11 PM
I liked Az Bats...but I must ask why is it that Grayson is never given the mantle? I guess no one who was a Teen Titan can become Batman...hehehe.
Dick's already made a name for himself as Nightwing, and has moved on from Gotham City. The new Batman would inherit all of Bruce's old stuff, I'd presume, and would have to stay behind in Gotham.
Anyway, Civil War - Kingdom Come. (Only really, really lame) Civil War would of been decent if they
really made it look like the Marvel Universe was over populated with super-beings and super-villains to the point it needed a "gulag" in the Negative Zone. Anyway, I'm sure the Avengers have done more worse than the New Warriors could have ever done, including blowing up 600 kids.
side note on the grayson angle, when Azrael took on the mantle, grayson asked why he wasnt offered the mantle, the reply was something like "would you have taken it if he did?" indicating that grayson had no want to be the bat, i'd presume that still stands
What I don`t understand is why is Batman being replaced by a character whom readers voted to be killed off during the `death in the family` arc? Even his resurrection was badly explained, it was too supernatural.
He should`ve stayed dead in the first place, because his death had a really big influence on Batman, dunno, everything about this seems so wrong...
Quote from: Spitfire on November 24, 2007, 02:02:15 PM
Quote from: thalaw2 on November 22, 2007, 07:13:11 PM
I liked Az Bats...but I must ask why is it that Grayson is never given the mantle? I guess no one who was a Teen Titan can become Batman...hehehe.
Anyway, Civil War - Kingdom Come. (Only really, really lame) Civil War would of been decent if they really made it look like the Marvel Universe was over populated with super-beings and super-villains to the point it needed a "gulag" in the Negative Zone. Anyway, I'm sure the Avengers have done more worse than the New Warriors could have ever done, including blowing up 600 kids.
Supreme Intelligence
In a recent Newsarama article there's speculation that Spoiler might not have died, or is coming back. imagine that Jason Todd as Batman, and Steph as Robin. return of the resurrected abused former sidekicks!!!
and if Bruce is dead, Tim is the next of kin, so everything would be in his name... i wonder how that would sit with him, owning all the toys but playing second fiddle to someone else.
Quote from: thanoson on November 24, 2007, 04:40:45 PM
Supreme Intelligence
... I don't understand. Are you agreeing with what I said, or mocking me?
I have no idea what he means either. I mean, I have a basic idea of what the Supreme Intelligence is in the comics, but no idea what that has to do with anything.
Eh, given more people know who Bruce Wayne is than know who the Speaker of the House is, the chances of this change being permanent are the same as me being elected President. And winning the lottery. And marrying Angelina Jolie. On the same day.
Civil War - Infinite Crisis
Two big, status quo changing events with their own spin-off titles that occurred at the same time, in competition with one another.
Quote from: Spitfire on November 25, 2007, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: thanoson on November 24, 2007, 04:40:45 PM
Supreme Intelligence
... I don't understand. Are you agreeing with what I said, or mocking me?
I don't believe he was mocking you Spitfire, if I understand correctly, he is referring to the Galactic Storm event, in which the Avengers "killed" the Supreme Intelligence. This was (to my knowledge) the first act of murder the Avengers ever committed. It's worth noting that Captain America was opposed to the action, going so far as to leave the Avengers after it happened. However, this was done as a punishment, an execution, if you will, after the SI had committed genocide, wiping out nearly the entire Kree race.
As for the actual topic here......well, I agree with HT, this won't last long. Still, this is why I hate modern comics. I've been meaning to post a thread about my objections to Legacy heroes (which probably aren't what you'd think), but I've been too busy with school and such. I really need to do that.
Spitfire- Sorry, was being vague. Yeah, I was just making a statement about the Avengers killing. Which is pretty bad. It seems the X-men have no qualms about killing though.
OK there are some good news this time
http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/18/wizard-world-texas-day-two/#more-6157
DiDio was also asked about the recent internet rumors that Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman will become New Gods. He answered: "Oh God, that's a bad idea!"
Quote from: bat1987 on November 26, 2007, 05:31:39 AM
OK there are some good news this time
http://blog.newsarama.com/2007/11/18/wizard-world-texas-day-two/#more-6157
DiDio was also asked about the recent internet rumors that Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman will become New Gods. He answered: "Oh God, that's a bad idea!"
Reading on, I liked the part where a potential spoiler was revealed and the DC Sales VP banged his head on the table. That's gotta be a classic moment.
Awesome, the whole thing is so not gonna happen
http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13
I love WB! :D
QuoteOh and Dead Batman/Todd Batman/God Bruce Wayne? So not happening. You can still expect a status-challenging new scenario, still expect Alex Ross covers and designs, still expect some intricately complex yet instantly entertaining Morrisonia, just, expect something else. Did Internet reaction affect this? Not one jot it seems. All decisions are taking place at a much higher level, and Warner Bros. have made their feelings known.
Meh. I just don't want Warner Bros. change too much to what they'd want.