If you haven't pick up the new issue of Thor....go get it. It just chock full of goodness. :thumbup: [spoiler]I never thought I'd be this happy seein' one individual completely "schooled" the way that Stark is......it's the simple things really. :lol: :thumbup:[/spoiler]
Oh yeah! Someone's had that coming for a LOOOOOOOOONNNNGGGGG time now! :D
Um... yeah.
And here continue-eth the problem.
It wasn't bad enough that they have been writing Tony as a bad guy, doing stuff he would never do:
-Taking genetic samples of friends for later use
-Beating Captain America into paste while wearing the armor
-Creating a clone of Thor
-Pulling the plug on Happy Hogan's life support systems
-Stopping the Crimson Dynamo's heart instead of fighting him
... and the list goes on. Let's face it, Dr. Doom's got nothing on this "re-write" of Iron Man. Now we can add "idiot" to the list of changes they have made to Tony Stark. He was one of the smartest men in the Marvel Universe, but no longer. Now he's dumb enough to try and tell Thor what to do, and when to do it. Even dumber still, he shoots repulsor rays at Thor when the son of Odin doesn't comply. And the for the grand finale of ignorance, he announces, "Okay, we'll do it old school" and tries to punch out the god of thunder. Let's forget that he is more than smart enough to know better. Let's remember that he has Thor-buster armor that Thor helped him create, in case Thor ever had to be stopped. The armor uses a crystal from Asgard so that the armor could actually harm Thor. Did he waer this... no. Did he know that he couldn't hurt Thor even though he created armor that proved it.... apparently not.
Do the guys that write comics ever read about these characters?
The new Iron Man does deserve what he gets, after all, he is a villain. So Hulk beats him up, Thor beats him up, and this one was great... Spider-Man beat him up (One More Day). The crimson and gold punching bag strikes again.
Make mine Marvel. :thumbdown:
Wasn't the Thorbuster destroyed?
I think it was damaged but not destroyed. However, I don't have the issue at hand so I could be mistaken.
Anyway, I skipped this issue of Thor specifically because JMS has drunk deep of the Tony Stark is a villian (and not a very bright one) Kool-Aid.
I'm with you Mowgli, not that I've been reading any of this stuff, but everything I've heard makes me want to keep up the embargo on modern comics.
I'm sorry, out of character or not, that sequence was still frakkin cool. No offense meant, but I gotta say some of you guys just take comics way too seriously.
Here here. Applauds above post.
I totally get wear you're comin' from Mowgli. But I'm still lovin' the whole come-upin's that he's been getting....even by spider-man....although Pete came outta the gate swingin'...he was still gonna loose. But the Thor fight was extraordinarily succinct. Blammo! It's over...love it. :thumbup: Oh...the Thorbuster armor was destroyed.
They just had a preview of the Secret Invasion storyline that ties into the Skull thing.. and the image they showed has Spider-Woman and Tony (in armor) nearly smooching on the cover. The news kept hinting that the invasion started full force around the Secret War event and that many key people were placed in heroes lives to manipulate them into destroying the hero/villian population before the full scale battle could occur. Bendis and Quesada have hinted that most if not all of the Illuminati have been replaced at one time or another. So I guess we will have to bare with this "Infinite Crisis" level event to see what Quesada has planned for revamping the Marvel Universe and we know that Ultimate Universe being changed it part of it too.
- CrimsonQuill
Quote from: bredon7777 on September 12, 2007, 09:12:18 PM
I'm sorry, out of character or not, that sequence was still frakkin cool. No offense meant, but I gotta say some of you guys just take comics way too seriously.
So on a section of FR full of threads with people complaining about comics, only those of us who complain about what Marvel has done to Tony Stark take comics too seriously. I think there's a serious flaw in your logic there.
Anyway I've seen some of the articles on Secret Invasion and I'm actually curious to see what they'll do. The Iron Man/Spider-Woman pic crimsonquill mentioned has me intrigued. Could it be some kind of Romeo and Juliet, star-crossed lovers kind of thing? :P
Quote from: Agent on September 13, 2007, 07:58:57 AM
Quote from: bredon7777 on September 12, 2007, 09:12:18 PM
I'm sorry, out of character or not, that sequence was still frakkin cool. No offense meant, but I gotta say some of you guys just take comics way too seriously.
So on a section of FR full of threads with people complaining about comics, only those of us who complain about what Marvel has done to Tony Stark take comics too seriously. I think there's a serious flaw in your logic there.
No, I've said much the same thing to people who complain about DC comics changes, preferring to wallow in the past instead. And I count a grand total of three complaint threads; the majority of which are about Marvel.
I don't read New Avengers, so I didn't comment on those two complaint threads.
Here's the thing- I don't disagree with the complaints. Tony's been written DRASTICALLY out of character. But that didn't even occur to me until the fourth or fifth read-through because that sequence is so frakking cool, it made me giggle like a little girl every other time I read it.
All I'm saying is the people who have the "out of character" reaction first are the equivalent of the people who complained about being able to hear the lasers in the space battles in
Star Wars - if you cant see how cool the battle is first, you are seriously overthinking it and taking the subject WAY too seriously, IMHO
Quote from: thanoson on September 13, 2007, 08:28:17 AM
So on a section of FR full of threads with people complaining about comics, only those of us who complain about what Marvel has done to Tony Stark take comics too seriously. I think there's a serious flaw in your logic there.
Nope, in a thread praising Thor's actions,you are taking things too seriously. There's a hundred I hate Bendis/Joe Q threads. Whenever someone says, Hey I like what's going on in the New Avengers/Mighty Avengers/etc... one of you guys comes popping in here to put the sour face on us. So and so is not in character, Sentry is too uber, blah blah blah.... Sometimes, just let us enjoy whatever little moments we have.
[/quote]
I was actually surprised by this issue, I was just picking up the issue to see if I'd like it and.........BAM! Thor just beats Tony down like a ragdoll. I gotta go pick up those back issues. Great read! :thumbup:
I believe the Thorbuster armor became obsolete when Ragnarök had occurred. Once Asgard was destroyed, anything Asgardian simply vanished such as the material used for the Thorbuster armor. <----(don't quote me on that cause I'm not 100% sure.)
About Tony being out of character. Let's not forgot that Mr. Stark has an enormous ego to go along with his intelligence, and with a big ego comes a whole lot of arrogance. So I think it can be argued that he allowed his ego/arrogance to get in the way when confronting Thor. Just my 2 cents.
Well I tell ya "I" for one do take comics seriously. ^_^ I mean what's the point of collecting comics if you don't take them at least a little seriously...hey I ain't gonna go to war and try to beat you about the head with my shoe if we disagree on some plot point or incorrect characterization. In my view I wanna be entertained and provoked and surprised and all the other good things that comics can give you...when done right. And I think that's part of Mowgli's point (if I can speak for you....maybe I'm completely off base) that in his view their "NOT" doing that with Iron Man and that "seriously" pisses him off. :rolleyes: Me...I'd like to think that behind all this "bad" Tony crap that there's something else other than what we've seen driving it that has yet to be revealed....at least I hope so. It's a great sequence though...that why I started this thread. :D
Quote from: thanoson on September 13, 2007, 08:30:09 AM
Quote from: thanoson on September 13, 2007, 08:28:17 AM
So on a section of FR full of threads with people complaining about comics, only those of us who complain about what Marvel has done to Tony Stark take comics too seriously. I think there's a serious flaw in your logic there.
Nope, in a thread praising Thor's actions,you are taking things too seriously. There's a hundred I hate Bendis/Joe Q threads. Whenever someone says, Hey I like what's going on in the New Avengers/Mighty Avengers/etc... one of you guys comes popping in here to put the sour face on us. So and so is not in character, Sentry is too uber, blah blah blah.... Sometimes, just let us enjoy whatever little moments we have.
That's a very adversarial post. Agent's original post was about the comic topic. Your topics and Bredon's were about other posters. Think about it. This is a comic book forum. Everybody in this forum is voicing their opinions about fictitious events in comic books. Perhaps we're all too serious, or maybe we just love the medium.
Back on topic. I completely agree with what Thor did, and it was a fun read to watch him break bad. He should, he's one of the biggest guns in Marvel comics, if not comics entirely. And the the Tony Stark they are currently depicting does deserve to be stomped. No question. My complaints are with how Tony has been written recently as a villain. Now, in this issue of Thor (which is on topic), he is also being written as stupid. Plain and simple. He talked smack to and tried to beat up Thor. This is a far cry from the super intelligent hero he has been for the past 40 years. It just doesn't add up. That's all I'm saying.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but... I hope he's a skrull. :wacko:
I was leafing through the comic book and I have to agree that it's a pretty impressively drawn fight scene (the whole book was practically one long fight scene). I like the proportions artist Oliver Coipel has given Thor's physique... he definitely looks beefier and brawnier (still not sold on the current costume, though).
Quote from: thanoson on September 13, 2007, 08:30:09 AM
There's a hundred I hate Bendis/Joe Q threads. Whenever someone says, Hey I like what's going on in the New Avengers/Mighty Avengers/etc... one of you guys comes popping in here to put the sour face on us. So and so is not in character, Sentry is too uber, blah blah blah.... Sometimes, just let us enjoy whatever little moments we have.
I've been noticing this happening more and more often, and I have to admit, I've been guilty of doing the very same thing myself (walking in on a thread where people are talking about how they're enjoying something, and then going about broadcasting my negative opinions of whatever it is they're enjoying and inviting argument, whether intentional or not). I think we should all just use common sense thread etiquette and use our better judgment before responding to what I call "praise/cheerleading threads."
I mean, if it's readily apparent that the original poster is just looking for fellow posters who enjoy the same material he/she is enjoying, try to think twice before posting a reply that could be considered as deliberately challenging their reading choices. If you feel that strongly enough about it, start a new thread specifically about your concerns or PM the individual posters, since the alternative is a thread that veers horribly off-topic rife with internet indignation.
Quote from: murs47 on September 13, 2007, 08:50:33 AMAbout Tony being out of character. Let's not forgot that Mr. Stark has an enormous ego to go along with his intelligence, and with a big ego comes a whole lot of arrogance. So I think it can be argued that he allowed his ego/arrogance to get in the way when confronting Thor. Just my 2 cents.
Not to mention that turning up in Thorbuster armour would have basically been advertising "I'm here for a fight" and removed ANY possibility of a peaceful, non combative resolution, which is what Tony was hoping for.
(*goes back to reading Annihilation Conquest*)
If people only want opinions that agree with theirs, shouldn't they just post a petition on their blog rather than post opinions on forums?
How does my posting that I like or dont like something hurt other people or their opinions?
I keep seeing this idea that all positive thought should be lumped together in one thread, (and all negative opinion in another thread, presumably), and I just think it kind of misses the entire point of communication in general, and forums in particular. It is to exchange information and opinions, to debate and argue, not just so everyone can go "yeah, yeah, I agree" over and over..
On-topic, I took a stupid amount of pleasure watching Stark get slapped around yet again. For the time being I'm enjoying the fact that every single person in the Marvel Universe is going to get a special "Beat up Iron man" issue. I can't wait for Aunt may to biyotch slap him up and down the hospital ward...and the issue where Jarvis kicks him in the groin for 22 pages...
Quote from: tommyboy on September 13, 2007, 01:32:32 PM
If people only want opinions that agree with theirs, shouldn't they just post a petition on their blog rather than post opinions on forums?
How does my posting that I like or dont like something hurt other people or their opinions?
I keep seeing this idea that all positive thought should be lumped together in one thread, (and all negative opinion in another thread, presumably), and I just think it kind of misses the entire point of communication in general, and forums in particular. It is to exchange information and opinions, to debate and argue, not just so everyone can go "yeah, yeah, I agree" over and over..
It wasn't my intention to suggest that we stifle argument and criticism on these forums (although if I came off that way, I only have my inadequately worded post to blame), it just seems that we always have these threads derailed and devolving into pointless back-and-forths that are as much about personal attacks (on creators, on fellow posters) as it is about discussing the merits/non-merits of a particular work. It seems to me that for some reason, these types of "provoked" discussions always bring out the worst behaviour in posters.
Like I said, if it seems like a thread was created solely for the enjoyment of like-minded readers (and not an actual thread dedicated to discussing the pros and cons of a title), I think it's fairly reasonable to assume that any attempts at pointing out the faults of whatever it is they're enjoying won't go down well, and if previous history is anything to go by, will only lead to a lot of bad blood between posters who otherwise would have been, at the very worst, indifferent to each other.
Anyway, that's all I have to say on that particular topic, anybody feels like spending more time over this, feel free to PM me.
It's the simplicty of the fight that gets me jazzed. It's over in a snap and feels like you just went to war. And I also like his attitude...."I'm not your friend and don't think we're boys anymore 'cause even when we were....we weren't that cool. I'm the big dog you little chihuahua..."WOOF" and you let everybody else know that I'm the big dog and don't you dare come in my yard with your mess" I love it! :thumbup: Personally I think that a lot of writers are putting Stark at the "fore" to get his head bashed in to humanize him...I guess. See...he screwed up and is takin' his lumps...he's not such a bad guy....No really...hello....hello? :( :lol:
Quote from: Mowgli on September 13, 2007, 12:26:59 PM
That's a very adversarial post. Agent's original post was about the comic topic. Your topics and Bredon's were about other posters. Think about it. This is a comic book forum. Everybody in this forum is voicing their opinions about fictitious events in comic books. Perhaps we're all too serious, or maybe we just love the medium.
Back on topic. I completely agree with what Thor did, and it was a fun read to watch him break bad.
Thank you! That's all I wanted to remind people of- that comics, first and foremost should be FUN! And I honestly wasn't trying to be "adversarial"; I see it more as a gentle poke in the ribs saying "Hey, remember why you started reading these things in the first place- cause of stuff like you just saw over the past two pages! Since when did debating stats and history become more important than having fun and going "Whoa, that was cool!?!"
I love a good fight, something left out of too many comics these days, and this does sound like a cool issue. However, part of comics being fun, to me at least, is that they depict heroes, characters that I care about and that inspire me. It's just a little disheartening when those characters start acting, as Tommy has said, more like villains. There are aspects of a lot of the modern comic storylines that I would really like to get read, but they are wrapped up in so much bad continuity and terrible story telling choices that I feel hamstrung whenever I go to the comic book store.
If posts like 'these' tend to show up often, perhaps it's because I, and those who feel similar to me, are delivering a constant lament to the loss of wonder and the lack of hope for our favorite medium. I enjoy a good debate, and I like to hear about the things going on in comics, especially since I don't read much that's new, but I also feel like I should be reminding people that there is a better way. They can't sell garbage if we don't buy it, after all.
I gotta say I both agree and disagree with you: I dropped the VAST majority of the Marvel books I collected due to Civil War. BY all means if you don't like something, don't buy it.
But "the loss of wonder and lack of hope"? No way! I've been collecting comics for almost 20 years, and while companies make the occasional bonehead decision, overall, I have NEVER seen a time that I would characterize as more hopeful than comics are now.
And as for wonder? A week doesn't go by where I don't go "Whoa, that was cool". Sometimes more than once. Again, in my 20 years of collecting comics- I have never seen a time when I've noticed more wonderful things in comics than I do now.
No, modern comics are full of hope and wonder. Perhaps its not the same type of hope and wonder that it used to be- but its there, and its there in spades!
Quote from: gdaybloke on September 13, 2007, 01:20:48 PM
(*goes back to reading Annihilation Conquest*)
I'm with ya there, it's pretty much the only event i've been enjoying from marvel recently :thumbup:
I hate to say it but I find Marvel more appealing than Infinite Confusion Countdown over at DC. I love those guys to death but incomplete stories (The Authority, Superman trapped in the Phantom Zone and Wonder Woman's first story arc) are disappointing. You gotta give Marvel the fact that even though they supposedly ruining their characters, their stories are selling (the only way comic companies who aren't owned by AOL/Time Warner can exist), even though character aren't still squeeky clean (I'm looking at you Iron Man), their "heroes" (Thor, Luke Cage, Spidey) are compelling. When Thor went to New Orleans (the city I live in) and states how he should have been there was amazing. In fact my favorite parts of this issue and this book is how thoughtful Thor has become in his loneliness. As for the fight with Iron Man, yeah Thor took him down but he deserved it and furthermore, Evil Reed and Hank help in the cloning too. Mark Millar said something once about how Iron Man is a futurist and if anything that is how he is being written. You guys act like Iron Man has had his $#!+ together or for that matter Reed and Hank aren't perfect either.
Tony's a playboy drunk who only think about what he can do to make the future he sees.
Reed can be a cold scientist who rather keep his little toys to himself instead of actually helping people.
Hank's a nutjob who has hit his wife and created evil robots.
If anything, the last 4 years of Tony has been written the same. Writers creates new ideas to keep comics fresh and new. Honestly, I'd take Tony "I've gotta make the world perfect" Stark over Teen Tony, Kang Tony, or Drunk Tony.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 14, 2007, 11:08:54 AM
Tony's a playboy drunk who only think about what he can do to make the future he see.
Reed can be a cold scientist who further keep his little toys to himself instead of actually helping people.
Hank's a nutjob who has hit his wife and created evil robots.
Bad writing
Sometimes
Terrible writing
Quote from: BentonGrey on September 14, 2007, 11:18:04 AM
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 14, 2007, 11:08:54 AM
Tony's a playboy drunk who only think about what he can do to make the future he see.
Reed can be a cold scientist who further keep his little toys to himself instead of actually helping people.
Hank's a nutjob who has hit his wife and created evil robots.
Bad writing
Sometimes
Terrible writing
I fixed my word usage and grammar. I was thinking too many thoughts at once.
I agree with you it is bad writing sometimes but Marvel selling twice as much as DC right now. Thor has been the number comics repeatedly since and Ironman has gone from one among many to the One. For all the hatred of Ironman recently, he really has become a character I am interested in. He wants to save the world and despite what people might think of him, he's actually trying to make a difference the only way he knows how.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 14, 2007, 11:08:54 AM
Tony's a playboy drunk who only think about what he can do to make the future he sees.
Reed can be a cold scientist who rather keep his little toys to himself instead of actually helping people.
Hank's a nutjob who has hit his wife and created evil robots.
If anything, the last 4 years of Tony has been written the same. Writers creates new ideas to keep comics fresh and new. Honestly, I'd take Tony "I've gotta make the world perfect" Stark over Teen Tony, Kang Tony, or Drunk Tony.
Well, I have every issue of Iron Man from the start and most Tales of Suspense to boot. If you classify Tony Stark as, "a playboy drunk who only think about what he can do to make the future he sees".. you haven't read much Iron Man. I would agree that in the past couple of years, he has been changed into that by the current writers. Beyond that, that description doesn't fit that character.
Teen and Kang Tony were ridiculous. Drunk Tony? Being an alcoholic is part of the character.
I also think Reed was written wrong in Civil War. I can't speak to the regular comic as I don't buy it. But being part of cloning Thor, creating that gulag and not going to see Johnny Storm in the hospital is all out of character for him.
Hank is Hank... what are you going to do. They write more failures for that character than any other three characters combined. At least he was trying to create something for good when he made an evil robot.
I most definitely agree with you Mowgli on the horrible job Millar did with Mr. Fantastic during Civil War....he was just all wrong. Hank Pym I think is just one of those characters who's always screwing up and kinda making others pay for his screw ups. But thats the character that they've written and will continue to write...but I don't necessarily think that thats a bad thing. He's like the black sheep of the Avengers family but you always root for him to clean up his act or to stop creating things that kill people. :rolleyes: :lol: As for the Tony bashing.....that's easy. And that ease contiues to be compounded as the years go on and the writers change....this isn't the first and probably won't be the last time that Starks seeming meglomania has come into play...he's certainly had several brushes with "The Dark Side". BUT.....he's got a lot of good qualities that everybody (including me from time to time) over looks. He's brillant, tenacious, the biggest ladies man in the world ( and that's something most of us hetro guys hope to be...except me of course 'cause the ladies love me....my handle IS Casanova after all.... :D ....HEY! :angry: Who's laughing? :lol: ) and more importantly....in my view....he's a believer. But I still loved seeing Thor workin' him over with the greatest of ease! ;) :lol:
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 14, 2007, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on September 14, 2007, 11:18:04 AM
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 14, 2007, 11:08:54 AM
Tony's a playboy drunk who only think about what he can do to make the future he see.
Reed can be a cold scientist who further keep his little toys to himself instead of actually helping people.
Hank's a nutjob who has hit his wife and created evil robots.
Bad writing
Sometimes
Terrible writing
I fixed my word usage and grammar. I was thinking too many thoughts at once.
I agree with you it is bad writing sometimes but Marvel selling twice as much as DC right now. Thor has been the number comics repeatedly since and Ironman has gone from one among many to the One. For all the hatred of Ironman recently, he really has become a character I am interested in. He wants to save the world and despite what people might think of him, he's actually trying to make a difference the only way he knows how.
I wasn't really talking about modern comics with that little bit right there, I was more referring to the past portrayals of these characters as anything but heroes. Hank the wife beater.......man, he rivals Aquaman for most mistreated character in comics.
I remember reading an Avengers TPB collection from some years ago (not that far gone though) and being surprised that Hank and Jan were back together. They were getting remarried, had already reconciled, and seemed to be very much in love. It was wonderful, they were actually healing the characters, showing growth and progress.........but, they can't let things like that be. They don't know how to write new stories without torturing their characters.....so, Hank goes back to being a pill, he and Jan split again, Jean Loring cheats on Ray Palmer, goes nuts and kills people, Barbra Gordon gets shot and paralyzed, Blue Beetle gets shot in the head......I don't know, it just turns my stomach.
Bent, I agree with you on some of those DC changes but Babs being shot was a part of a journey for me. It make Batman and his family that more real (except of course Red Hood who should have stayed a dead Robin). After they crippled her, they didn't just write her off, she became something more important than female Batman, she became a character that, despite her physical weakness, is mentally strong and brokers information about anything that can be known to heroes that need her. I think the character has more respect as Oracle than she ever had as Batgirl. DC writes female counterpart character as cannon fodder. Through out the 60's and 70's both Batgirl and Supergirl were treated like they were more concern with getting married and boys than fighting crime. Even today, Supergirl is still being written as a guy's wet dream (I miss PAD's Supergirl).
What I am getting at is, change is good sometimes and even though I'm not 100% sold on Tony's personality lately, I do like what he is trying to do for the world.
Well, I agree that they've actually turned Babs' tragedy into a good thing, like Barry's death and Wally's tenure as the Flash. I was talking more about the initial event. They torture their characters (both companies in equal measure, I imagine, I just happen to know more about DC history because of my project), and I don't enjoy watching these characters twisted around. Well, I suppose I'm really just contributing to this thread getting even more off topic. I think I will start a separate thread for this sometime.
Thor smashed him good. So, is this during Hulk's War, or after?
I'm fairly certain the chronology is
Tony gets in Nova's face. Nova Leaves.
Tony gets in Thor's face. THor lays the smackdown.
Tony gets smashed through avengers tower by Hulk.
I'm a little confused- I know Ultimate universe Hank was a wife beater, but I didn't think they'd carried that particular bit of lunacy over to the 616 universe!?!
And if they haven't, you need to clearly indicate which version of the character you're talking about; because Ultimate Hank is effiectivley a whole new character it doesnt violate ANY history to make him a wife-beater...
Quote from: bredon7777 on September 15, 2007, 05:36:05 AM
I'm a little confused- I know Ultimate universe Hank was a wife beater, but I didn't think they'd carried that particular bit of lunacy over to the 616 universe!?!
And if they haven't, you need to clearly indicate which version of the character you're talking about; because Ultimate Hank is effiectivley a whole new character it doesnt violate ANY history to make him a wife-beater...
Bredon, I had to do a double take on your post. :P The ultimate universe characters aren't "all new". They're basically the same templates with a few changes. If anything, things from 616 carried over into Ultimates. If I recall correctly, Hank began to hit his wife during his yellowjacket stage. Let's just call Hank the tragic hero who had a lot of mental distress in his time.
Its all in the way you look at it, dude. From where I sit , the Ultimate characters are all new characters that, through a wacky coinicdence share names and a little bit of history with the 616 characters- which is why it doesn't really violate any history when they change things in the Ultimate universe.
For example, IIRC 616 Hank hit Jan ONCE, which either prompted or cured the mental breakdown that made him Yellowjacket, I dont remember which.
They gave the new Ultimate Hank a History of being a wife beater- but Ultimate History doesn't violate that 616 character's history in any way, even though they can be drastically differnt.
I think of the ultimate heroes as slightly altered templates of the originals thrown into new situations (or rewritten situations) with a more modern story telling technique and plot devices going on [nuture vs. nature in a sense]. It's hard to think of them as new characters because marvel at the moment is just rehashing their old stories instead of actually adding new dimensions (IE: layers, not worlds). Hank the wife-beater in ultimates is just the original story expanded...just like his current storyline of trying to get back in the ultimates [avengers] good graces. And just like real life, if a man hits his wife once, of his own free-will, he is usually labeled a wife-beater...specially in modern age. Not to mention that 616 Hank did try to kill his wife at one point, but that story is mangled in my mind at the moment. Just to add, didn't 616 Hank also emotionally/mentally/verbally abuse Janet? Anyway, I don't recall anyone saying that ultimate marvel messed with anything in the main universe. I believe it's common knowledge at this point that ultimate marvel has its own history.
On topic:
I loved the thor vs. Ironman fight...but that may be just because I dislike Ironman more than I ever did after civil war happened. So now it just feels like I enjoy any issue where Tony is kicked off his high horse, even if it's for a moment. In fact...I'm pretty sure tony has a few more beatings coming up since everyone seems to be gunning for him now. That is, if he's not dead, a female ultron, or replaced by some random robot. Getting off tony for a bit, Reed Richards seems to be going back into his old character from what I read. I'd still like for Reed and Johnny to have a talk about his lack of visiting his hospital bed though.
So, 616 doesn't mix with Ultimates, that's correct. However, recently the FF have traveled to where the Ultimates Marvel Zombies where. In addition, in Ultimate Power #6, the Ultimates and New Squadron Supreme are being visited by......wait for it........ The Original Squadron Supreme. Eh, I lost track on what I was gonna say.
Getting back to topic:
WELCOME BACK, HEIMDALL! :thumbup:
Quote from: thanoson on September 15, 2007, 08:58:33 AM
So, 616 doesn't mix with Ultimates, that's correct. However, recently the FF have traveled to where the Ultimates Marvel Zombies where. In addition, in Ultimate Power #6, the Ultimates and New Squadron Supreme are being visited by......wait for it........ The Original Squadron Supreme. Eh, I lost track on what I was gonna say.
I, nor do I recall anyone else stating, didn't say they didn't mix. I said, "they each have their own histories." and they do. As an aside, marvel zombies takes place on an alternate earth...they were just "introduced" in ultimate fan4. In fact, what you were referencing to (galacta-zombies) happened after the ultimate fan4 arc, but eh, whateverage.
As for ultimate power...I haven't read it and I don't really plan to until all the issues come out. I thought it tied "Supreme Power" into the ultimate universe since supreme power was a max comic (IE: not in mainstream continuity)...so yeah. I don't think squadron supreme even takes place on 616 earth...so I don't know if I'm following your point there.
But really, sometimes it's hard to discuss things when statements are pulled out of nowhere. Maybe I missed something... *shrugs*
On topic:
Thor recovering all his old friends seems like an interesting idea, but it looks like that plot may go on for a year or so. I wonder if Thor will help out against Hulk since the heroes need all the help they can get.
Quote from: Previsionary on September 15, 2007, 10:27:59 AM
On topic:
Thor recovering all his old friends seems like an interesting idea, but it looks like that plot may go on for a year or so. I wonder if Thor will help out against Hulk since the heroes need all the help they can get.
Nope.....they've said no Thor in WWH. :(