Well, here's the piece John Byrne did for Gerry Turnbull:
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20215&PN=1&totPosts=32 - check out page #2 of the thread for some Dr, Strange concept sketches
(For anyone who didn't follow the whole situation, Byrne didn't do it for free; he already had Gerry on his commissions list and instead they made a deal where Byrne made the picture 20% larger for no extra cost, if I remember right)
After reading everything I think Micheal Golden was the one in the right, though I will admit he could have been a bit more diplomatic about his approach. I'll leave it at that.
Anyways good piece by Byrne, the guy is a lucky person.
Ajax, the general consensus is that it was more or less a communication mix-up on both sides, but that Golden and his agent were completely inappropriate in the way they handled it. He should have just returned Gerry's money and told him to buzz off instead of doing that crappy piece of artwork.
Oh, and it looks like Byrne might be throwing in a page of Doctor Strange concept sketches for free, so it looks like Gerry will be getting a freebie after all. (Its on page 2 of the thread, I think)
From what I've read it was more than just a communication problem, in that the clients purchased commission work than decided their commissions were more important than everyone elses. I think Golden was telling the truth when he said there was no timetable since I doubt any artist would accept one in the first place. Also I agree he should have just sent the money back but instead he decided to send them a message (sending them the character they requested, back to the panel, with "Patience is a Virtue" worked into it). Apparently during the San Diego con they harrassed Goldens agent, yelling at her and refusing to even talk with her. Also other artists went up to Golden saying they had similar problems with these people before, so in the end everyone screwed up but I have no sympathy for the people who bought the commissions.
Actually, I'd like to point out something that Renee mentioned in her final response yet either denied or failed to mention at other times: Gerry and the other three people who supposedly jumped in line were given definite delivery dates which kept being put off due to Golden's other work. Gerry said he was supposed to have received the artwork in 1 and a half months, but it ended up taking 8 and a half, which is unacceptable. Renee also admitted that Gerry and the other 3 people did not exactly `jump in line'; they asked for their art which should have already been in their hands and Michael had to jump them over other people to get it done, then sent at least two of them crap (another person who got a Micronauts commission got the same "Patience in a Virtue' junk Gerry got, except "Virtue" was spelled correctly - probably because they paid over $200 more than Gerry did). Sounds pretty much like Golden's fault to me, because if he's that slow, he probably shouldn't be doing commissions at all, or at least shouldn't be getting paid in full up front. Bob Layton and John Byrne are two artists that come to mind who come off more professional than Golden: Byrne doesn't get paid until the work is done and stops taking commissions when he gets swamped. He just cut off any new orders for the rest of the year while he finishes what he has on his plate. Bob Layton posts updates on his site when he is swamped and offers refunds if he doesn't complete a project.
I don't have any respect for anyone who would react the way Golden did, because it was completely unprofessional and quite frankly I think if anyone had decided to pursue things legally, Golden wouldn't have had a foot to stand on.
You so gotta post Blair Kitchen's pic, Ghosty.
I'll be seeing him and Mike in person on Sunday, I'll pass on your regards ;)
Quote from: gdaybloke on August 16, 2007, 03:52:14 PM
You so gotta post Blair Kitchen's pic, Ghosty.
I'll be seeing him and Mike in person on Sunday, I'll pass on your regards ;)
http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=294507&GSub=45751
(I need to re-scan it sometime, because part of the text in the word balloon looks a little blurry for some reason. The "P" in patience and "Who's" aren't blurry at all on the actual picture.)
P.S. This sketch is either a funny coincidence or Blair recognized my name from a couple of boards I posted on when the whole Golden fiasco happened.
Um... would he not have had your name from the shipping address you gave him?
Quote from: gdaybloke on August 16, 2007, 04:29:40 PM
Um... would he not have had your name from the shipping address you gave him?
That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the fortune cookie sketch being a take on the Michael Golden thing.
That would be because I linked him to the thread where we were discussing it. Heh.
Say what you will about Mr. Byrne but that rules!
Including the sketch along with increasing the size of the commission by 20%? Outstanding!
-MJB
Ah, that's cool! I'm still awaiting my Possum books. I asked Blair if he could throw PsychoPanda into the sketch. Here's hoping! :)
Edit: meant that the Possum sketch was cool, but so is the whole Mr. Byrne thing! ;
I've read about it too and I'd say I'm firmly in the 'Michael Golden Screwed Up' camp. That sketch was a complete slap in the face considering the length of time it took and the lack of communication. He should have refunded the money if he didn't have time to do it right.
The Byrne artwork was simply gorgeous... I'd love to see that colored!
Quote from: BlueBard on August 17, 2007, 09:11:28 AM
The Byrne artwork was simply gorgeous... I'd love to see that colored!
There used to be a sticky on the Byrne forums for posters to post recolors of his art, but they abused the privilege so it was permanently locked and unstickied.
Byrne asked for his commissions to not be recolored - pages from comics and his sketches were okay to recolor - but people kept coloring the commissions and a few posters ended up getting the thread locked by ignoring what he was saying and arguing with him in a different thread; If I was Byrne (or whichever moderator who may have done it if he didn't himself), I would have locked it, too.
If you want to see some pretty talented artists, check out the `What's In Your Sketchbook' thread over there. Its not stickied but rarely goes farther in than the first two or three pages.
Quote from: GhostMachine on August 17, 2007, 11:39:58 AM
Quote from: BlueBard on August 17, 2007, 09:11:28 AM
The Byrne artwork was simply gorgeous... I'd love to see that colored!
There used to be a sticky on the Byrne forums for posters to post recolors of his art, but they abused the privilege so it was permanently locked and unstickied.
Byrne asked for his commissions to not be recolored - pages from comics and his sketches were okay to recolor - but people kept coloring the commissions and a few posters ended up getting the thread locked by ignoring what he was saying and arguing with him in a different thread; If I was Byrne (or whichever moderator who may have done it if he didn't himself), I would have locked it, too.
If you want to see some pretty talented artists, check out the `What's In Your Sketchbook' thread over there. Its not stickied but rarely goes farther in than the first two or three pages.
I'm curious as to how you might "abuse the privilege" of recolouring (or more likely colouring, as most pieces are B/W) a commission?
Was it just that they were done badly?
Quote from: tommyboy on August 17, 2007, 11:44:31 AM
Quote from: GhostMachine on August 17, 2007, 11:39:58 AM
Quote from: BlueBard on August 17, 2007, 09:11:28 AM
The Byrne artwork was simply gorgeous... I'd love to see that colored!
There used to be a sticky on the Byrne forums for posters to post recolors of his art, but they abused the privilege so it was permanently locked and unstickied.
Byrne asked for his commissions to not be recolored - pages from comics and his sketches were okay to recolor - but people kept coloring the commissions and a few posters ended up getting the thread locked by ignoring what he was saying and arguing with him in a different thread; If I was Byrne (or whichever moderator who may have done it if he didn't himself), I would have locked it, too.
If you want to see some pretty talented artists, check out the `What's In Your Sketchbook' thread over there. Its not stickied but rarely goes farther in than the first two or three pages.
I'm curious as to how you might "abuse the privilege" of recolouring (or more likely colouring, as most pieces are B/W) a commission?
Was it just that they were done badly?
No. He stated that he didn't want the commissions recolored because they were INTENDED (emphasis mine, not his) to be black and white; he draws differently when a piece is intended to be colorized. However he let it slide and mostly stayed out of the thread, but the few times he did take a look he would comment when someone did something that he liked or when someone made a coloring mistake (like when someone got part of Robin's cape confused with part of Batman's on a piece), but there was another thread that ended up turning into an argument amongst a few fans, the subject of coloring the commissions was brought up and a few of the people who had been coloring the commissions ended up getting the coloring thread closed by being jerks about it. As I've said before, I can't blame him or the mods for shutting the coloring thread down. (And for the record, there were plenty of good colorists who posted in it, but one of the best was also one of the jerks responsible for it being locked)
I definitely recommend taking a look at the "What's In Your Sketchbook?" thread I already mentioned (not stickied; should be on one of the first two pages, though) and the "New Art" (stickied) threads over there.
Quote from: Ajax on August 16, 2007, 12:22:21 PM
I think Golden was telling the truth when he said there was no timetable since I doubt any artist would accept one in the first place.
No offense, but that's baloney...There
was a deadline and that deadline was moved multiple times by the artist. Artists should never do commissions with no reasonable deadline/timetable...It's just ludicrous to think the person paying up front for a commission should be made to feel (or told) that they'll get the pic whenever (or if ever) the artist feels like drawing it. By taking the person's money up front, the artist is entering into an obligation to finish a commission in a timely manner...It's thievery or worse not to do so.
Quote from: Ajax on August 16, 2007, 12:22:21 PMAlso I agree he should have just sent the money back but instead he decided to send them a message (sending them the character they requested, back to the panel, with "Patience is a Virtue" worked into it). Apparently during the San Diego con they harrassed Goldens agent, yelling at her and refusing to even talk with her. Also other artists went up to Golden saying they had similar problems with these people before, so in the end everyone screwed up but I have no sympathy for the people who bought the commissions.
It still was the wrong thing to do, Golden was not in the right in what he did...Period. It was nasty, cruel and very unclassy.
Dana
My Possum package arrived in the mail on Friday, very cool indeed! I'll scan my art piece and post some words about the comic in a new thread once I get the chance. My thanks to GDay for pointing me to the website! :)