Freedom Reborn Archive

 
The old thread was getting big enough, so with season 2 news starting up, it's time for a new one.

Anyway, NBC has released promo photos from season 2, which you can see here (http://scifiupdates.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=138&Itemid=1).

The cast photos do confirm some rumors--namely who's still around.  Claire's also sporting a new cheerleading outfit.

I can't wait to see what news is released after the Comic Con.

-MJB

 :thumbup:

http://www.tvsquad.com/2007/07/28/comic-con-heroes-panel-breaking-news/

:thumbup:

Straight from Glitch Girl's summary of Dragon*Con 2007,

Quote from: Glitch Girl on September 05, 2007, 06:25:42 PM

• Nichelle Nichols  (aka: Uhura) is a very classy lady.  And, we all got to hear the news that she will be joining the cast of Heroes this season straight from her mouth.  :D

:cool:

Smith + Heroes: Origins could equal gold...

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

-MJB

Smith is only writing one episode of Heroes: Origins.

Actually, I think that may be a good thing.

Anybody else upset at NBC's promo department:

[spoiler]
For clearly revealing Peter to be alive in their commericals?
[/spoiler]

Not really. They never gave us any reason to assume otherwise.

Maybe more of a complaint could be made about Nathan.

I never believed either Peter or Nathan would kick the bucket.  I'm more shocked that DL isn't around. 

Quote from: Mr. Hamrick on September 06, 2007, 07:32:41 AM
Smith is only writing one episode of Heroes: Origins.

Actually, I think that may be a good thing.

1. I was aware that Smith was only doing the first episode of "Origins".

2. Everyone has their own opinion. I think the episode has the chance of being both funny and compelling. Smith is good at writing both the funny and dialog.

-MJB

Quote from: MJB on September 06, 2007, 09:48:42 AM

Quote from: Mr. Hamrick on September 06, 2007, 07:32:41 AM
Smith is only writing one episode of Heroes: Origins.

Actually, I think that may be a good thing.

1. I was aware that Smith was only doing the first episode of "Origins".

2. Everyone has their own opinion. I think the episode has the chance of being both funny and compelling. Smith is good at writing both the funny and dialog.

-MJB

I'm simply echoing the sentiment of the man himself when he said that he hopes he can do the source material justice.  Kevin is also knee deep in writing his next film called "Red State" and the original draft has apparently raised a few eyebrows compared to some of Smith's earlier work due the "dark, depressing nature of it".  Having him only responsible for one of the episodes means less of a burden for him and the chance that it will turn out well received.

Quote from: stumpy on September 06, 2007, 09:15:36 AM
Not really. They never gave us any reason to assume otherwise.

Maybe more of a complaint could be made about Nathan.

Us, no.

The casual viewer, not so much.  Mrs bredon, who only watched a handful of episodes herself, and relied on me to fill in the rest had the following reaction to seeing Peter alive in the commercials:

"WTF? I thought you told me he blew up?"

Just seems stupid to spoil the surprise for those who might not have watched as obsessively as the folks on this forum. . .

(I know, I know: folks on this forum? Obsessive: Never! :D )

I guess you may be right about the more casual viewer not paying as much attention to the earlier episodes. (Although I thought I was fairly casual. After all, I don't do anything but watch the show once and then talk about it with you guys and I assume everyone else here is the same, besides some folks checking the spoiler sites. At least, I am betting none of us is getting paid to watch professionally - if I am wrong, I am suddenly considering a career change! :D)
[spoiler]I was just thinking that, since Ted got all China syndrome on us a few times and never showed any ill effects, people would assume the same about Peter. But, it's definitely the case that Ted never went up quite as dramatically as Peter did.[/spoiler]

Really, there was only one episode that actually confirmed that he would be still alive.  Other than that, the characters are constantly talking about how Peter's going to die.  Even in that one episode, you have to catch the one bit where they specifically mention it.  And casual viewers even then would be likely to miss it.

Even for us, I remember a bit of a conversation about that episode before it was concluded that Peter would be unharmed. The evidence was there, but we all had to piece to together.

Maybe you are right about the constant statements by other characters about Peter's imminent demise, but I seem to have forgotten them. I honestly don't recall thinking Peter had to die and I can't recall where other characters (at least those who were in any position to know) were convinced he was going to die. I mean, between visions and abductions and Sylar (oh my!), everyone was worried, but I must have forgotten where Peter was regularly singled out. Pretty early in the season (maybe ep four or five), when future Hiro talks to Peter in the train and mentions that Peter looks different because FHiro is used to seeing him with the scar, I guess I got the idea that Peter was going to be around for a while (in at least that timeline :rolleyes:)

QuoteMaybe you are right about the constant statements by other characters about Peter's imminent demise, but I seem to have forgotten them. I honestly don't recall thinking Peter had to die and I can't recall where other characters (at least those who were in any position to know) were convinced he was going to die.

It was towards the end of the season especially.

Remember the older generation was divided into two factions, one of which believed that it was Peter's destiny to die, the future was set, and the Nathan was destined to change it.

This was where most of the talk came from.

In episode 20 of season 1, where Hiro and Ando went to the future. They made it look like Sylar had stolen most of everyone's powers. Nathan's flight powers,DL's intangibility powers,even shapechanging?to look like Nathan? Not sure if this future had been changed or what. But it really sucks if it turned out that Sylar would eventually kill almost everyone and obtain almost all of their powers. I really thought Hiro would be the one to end/stop Sylar,but in the last episode,Hiro was able to stab him as Isaac predicted. But it turned out this was only to injure Sylar. :doh: Wonder why Hiro needs to be transported back in the past in Japan. :huh: Well, can't wait to see what happens next nevertheless. ^_^

QuoteNathan's flight powers,DL's intangibility powers,even shapechanging?to look like Nathan? Not sure if this future had been changed or what.

This future is already gone.  The explosion no longer devastated New York, and it seems unlikely that Nathan will become President, which is how, according to the writers, Sylar killed most of the characters.  National Security had a deal that HRG would be allowed to hide most specials if he turned certain ones over to them, which is why HRG refused to let Hiro have anyone to help him.  HRG though they were in prison, but they weren't, because Sylar used Nathan's identity to get at them.

QuoteWonder why Hiro needs to be transported back in the past in Japan.

[spoiler]
Because Hiro's going to meet someone in the past who doesn't age and is still alive in the present.  Basically a good version of Vandal Savage, and one that Hiro already idolizes.  Having met him in the past where he is significant, Hiro is sure to recognize him in the present.  That and he' s going to meet a certain lady. . .
[/spoiler]

EDIT: I've added a note about Season 1 spoilers, so we can discuss those freely.  Season 2 spoilers should still go in spoiler tags.

[spoiler]
Dunno if you're right about Hiro's buddy being a good version of Vandal Savage, cat- everything I've read seems to hint at him being the bigger bad that Molly Walker was scared of.

[/spoiler]

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 08, 2007, 10:56:10 AM

QuoteNathan's flight powers,DL's intangibility powers,even shapechanging?to look like Nathan? Not sure if this future had been changed or what.

This future is already gone.  The explosion no longer devastated New York, and it seems unlikely that Nathan will become President, which is how, according to the writers, Sylar killed most of the characters.  National Security had a deal that HRG would be allowed to hide most specials if he turned certain ones over to them, which is why HRG refused to let Hiro have anyone to help him.  HRG though they were in prison, but they weren't, because Sylar used Nathan's identity to get at them.

QuoteWonder why Hiro needs to be transported back in the past in Japan.

[spoiler]
Because Hiro's going to meet someone in the past who doesn't age and is still alive in the present.  Basically a good version of Vandal Savage, and one that Hiro already idolizes.  Having met him in the past where he is significant, Hiro is sure to recognize him in the present.  That and he' s going to meet a certain lady. . .
[/spoiler]

EDIT: I've added a note about Season 1 spoilers, so we can discuss those freely.  Season 2 spoilers should still go in spoiler tags.

Regarding that last spoiler:

[spoiler]I'm assuming that the hero of Hiro's (heh) in question is going to turn out to be....his father.[/spoiler]

And another spoiler about a cast addition for this coming season:

[spoiler]I assume people would have to be living under a rock to not have heard about Kristen Bell joining the show, but I figured I'd tag that fact just in case....

But according to a report on the show I saw a few days ago (I think it was on "Attack Of The Show"), she's apparently going to have some sort of powers involving electricity - don't know if this means she'll be tossing lightning like the guy on Misfits of Science back in the 80s or if it just means she simply can control the flow of it, though.[/spoiler]

I think you guys misunderstand who I was referring to:

[spoiler]
Hiro's Hero is Takensie, the samurai whose sword Hiro used to possess.  I have read absolutely nothing about him being the bad guy at all.  He has been described by official sources as a new full-time member of the cast with the power of immortality.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 09, 2007, 04:38:56 AM
I think you guys misunderstand who I was referring to:

[spoiler]
Hiro's Hero is Takensie, the samurai whose sword Hiro used to possess.  I have read absolutely nothing about him being the bad guy at all.  He has been described by official sources as a new full-time member of the cast with the power of immortality.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
The new "big bad" for the season has also been been described has being immortal and at least having been around for 200 years.   Rather Hiro's hero and this guy turn out to be the same guy somehow . . . or simply that both are immortal . . . remain to be seen.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]It could be that the spoilers regarding the "big bad" and the spoilers regarding Hiro's Hero have been mixed up for one another a time during some of the reporting.

IE: Hiro's Hero being extremely immortal and the "big bad" being a telepath. 

However, i would venture to guess that whatever the "big bad"'s powers are that it would need to put him on par with being a threat to Hiro and Peter as well as make him capable of of subjugating Sylar to his will.  Otherwise, Sylar could steal his power and we'd right back into the first half of Season One. 

I don't think Hiro's hero will turn out to be his father.  I say this specifically because it was hinted that Hiro would travel through time with "a princess" thus creating a potential time paradox.[/spoiler]

Just a few days to go! Can't wait to see what happens next. :thumbup:

Two hours left!  And work hasn't asked me to come in early!  Maybe I'll get lucky tonight.

Unfortunately, I live in New Orleans, and my local NBC station has decided again that the first Saints game of the season is so important that everyone who doesn't have ESPN needs to see it.  I can understand last year, being the first game since Katrina, but why this one?  Hopefully they'll get it up online soon after it airs.  I might end up setting my alarm early so I can watch it in the morning.

That does stink!  At least we can be thankful that it's available online.

Sci-Fi may even run it. Also, I see NBC is running it again Saturday evening at 8:00 EST. Not sure if it is a local thing or national thing. As with these things, your mileage may vary.

And it's here!

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 24, 2007, 06:01:53 PM
And it's here!

And it was good. :thumbup:

Not a bad start to the new season.  Not bad at all.  Some thoughts, in no particular order, organization, or significance.

[spoiler]
Matt's sort of adopted Molly, and he's back on the police force and made detective.  It's nice to see him picking his life back up, but I was surprised to hear about that divorce.  It just doesn't seem to connect with last season that well.

Mohinder as a double agent.  Nice.

The new character Maya.  Someone with a more negative ability, further explained in the comics as a plague-like ability.  Certainly makes life interesting.

Our first duplicate power, which the writers hinted last season that we'd be seeing soon--another flier.  Apparently the super-powered boyfriend for Claire they've been talking about.

Am I the only one who thinks that Hiro may end up dong the things usually attributed to Takensi?  Maybe not, but we'll see.

Now we know how many members the older hero group had.  12, with 8 left now.  And a misterious new figure that killed Hiro's dad.  I like how Ando's continued as the faithful assistant, serving Hiro's dad and earning his trust.  Of course, one has to wonder what he's going to do now.  And what will happen to that legacy that Hiro was supposed to be given upon his return.
[/spoiler]

All in all, very promising.  I'm glad that they focused on just a few characters for now in stead of trying to get them all in the first episode, although they did hit most of them, some more briefly than others.

Also, [spoiler]where did Peter get his new electrical zapping ability?[/spoiler]

Yeah, the wife and I were enthralled from the start!  Good episode and a promising start.

In response to some of your things Cat:

[spoiler]Yeah, I felt the same way.  They seemed to be picking up the pieces well, and it definitely seemed like they loved each other...I don't really get the divorce either. 

Yeah, I loved that.

I'm vaguely hoping there's more to this kid than just a duplicate power.

Yeah, I was thinking that the whole time....although, I am beginning to suspect that it's going to be more of a Mr. Peabody situation...does anyone else remember that show?  The one where the dog and the boy 'fixed' history?

I'm really disappointed that we didn't get to see Sulu's power, or Mrs. Petrelli's for that matter.[/spoiler]

On another note:

[spoiler]Yay, Peter's back!  Next to Hiro, he's my favorite character.[/spoiler]

I can explain cat's second spoiler, but it contains spoilers for something that won't happen for a few episodes, so don't read if you don't want to know - You HAVE been warned:

[spoiler]Kristen Bell, who played the title character on Veronica Mars, is going to be joining the show and her character is supposedly going to have some sort of electrical powers. She's supposed to show up sometime in the middle to late part of next of month. And there's supposed to be flashbacks or something that eventually reveal what happened during the 4 and a half months between the first season ender and second season opener, so.......[/spoiler]

A slow start to the season but a good one.

-MJB

Like Cat, I've got some thoughts from this first episode and thoughts others might like to share their thoughts about my thoughts.

[spoiler]
Who are the other members of the older hero group, and do we already know some of them?  Hiro's father clearly recognized his attacked, suggesting he was one of the members of the group, but wouldn't it be interesting if instead he was an old villain of the group come to get revenge?

Could Molly's nightmares about the man worse than the boogeyman be triggered by proximity? IE: Maybe the man worse than the boogeyman is the same person who attacked Hiro's father and him being in NYC is triggering Molly's nightmares.

Does Maya's brother have a power, and if so what is it?  Perhaps simply an immunity to Maya's plague-like power?

West seems really shady to me, could he be a plant from The Company?  We haven't seen any interaction between him and any of the other students at the school, so maybe he's "new" too. 

What's up with Nathan?  Did he resign his congressional seat upon his brother's "death?"  And how exactly did he survive?  And can he no longer afford shaving cream and a razor?

What was Peter doing in the shipping crate?  Is he working for Microsoft now and trying to help their Zune gain marketshare by destroying a shipment of iPods?  I hope so.
[/spoiler]

And on a slightly different note:

[spoiler]
I did read a few weeks ago that Kristen Bell's character was supposed to have some connection to Peter's "death" and his absence for 4 months, so it'll be good to see how that all ties together.  And I'm glad they cast her on the show, Veronica Mars being canceled was the biggest travesty since Arrested Development getting canceled.
[/spoiler]

Ah, Heroes.... how I have missed thee.

[spoiler]Loved the scenes where Claire's Dad was dealing with life at his new job, and finally snapped in the face of his overbearing manager.  As for Claire, her high school really seems to be giving off a Sunnydale vibe... I half expect her to start staking vampires in the next couple of episodes.

I'm guessing that Maya's power is to be able to carry and release diseases (not that hard to guess), and that her brother's power relates to keeping her power in check.  Possibly the ability to neutralize other heroes' powers as well?  We'll see.
[/spoiler]

from the votepetrelli.com website:

Quote from: Nathan Petrelli
    My fellow New Yorkers, it's been a long and hard journey to the top of the mountain, and I thoroughly appreciate everything you have given me and have done for my family and I. This state is the archetype of this country, and has allowed for more opportunity than I ever thought imaginable. Winning the election on November 2nd was a thrill that I will never forget, nor would I want to. It's something that will remain with me, even as I make the following statement.

    In all the decisions I have made in my public life, I have always tried to do what was best for New York and its citizens. Recently I have encountered a situation that renders me unable to put the best interest of New York as my number one concern. Without going further into further details, I am resigning from my elected seat as Junior Senator of New York state, effective immediately.

    This was never my intention, and I want all of you to know that my desire to do the right thing for the people of New York, the same quality that won my election, is the same desire and urge I have right now. Please do not worry about me or my family, while there are extenuating circumstances to explain my abrupt change of heart, but I do not wish to delve deeply into any of my reasons as they are personal, and in these hard times, privacy is important for my family.

    Nathan Petrelli 

Guess that answers that.

I heard a theory on another board about Peter in the crate. let's spoiler this:
[spoiler] Part 1: Peter had mimicked both halves of Niki/Jessica. Niki's strength and Jessica's ability to jump bodies.
Part 2: As Peter is carried skyward by Nathan, his soul jumps into Nathan's body.
Part 3: Peter's body explodes, then regenerates much later.
Part 4: The peter in the crate is a Hollow, like Green Arrow in Quiver. His soul is elsewhere, which explains his amnesia
However, this doesn't explain why he has the haitian's necklace or is handcuffed to the inside of the crate.[/spoiler]

I managed to catch the show online in the morning.  It was pretty good, but it didn't grab me as much as the others.  Maybe that was just that I watched it right after I had gotten up, when I was pretty tired.

[spoiler]
They're doing a much better job of connecting everyone to the storyline this season.  The only ones not involved are Peter and Hiro, and their actions could easily turn out to be connected later on.

HRG is as awesome as ever.  Is there anyone who has worked as a clerk of some kind and not wanted to do that?

Kensei is also pretty cool.  I had heard that Kensei was going to be a white guy and was concerned about it, but they pulled it off in a way that made sense, didn't break continuinity, and wasn't racist at all.  Good job, Heroes writers.  I love when Hiro was telling him all the things he did in the stories, and Kensei just punched him and said "All I need to do is get a drink."

Matt's storyline was a bit jarring.  The divorce pretty much came out of nowhere.  Still, it does get rid of Janice, and she sometimes dragged his story down last season.  I like Molly's storyline, too.

Claire's storyline was alright.  I'm not too fond of frying boy, though.  His "robot or alien" joke was a little annoying, and the whole "using his power to spy on Claire" thing was just creepy.  Hopefully that last one was the intention of the writers.  He also looks a bit too old, like he should be in college, though that's pretty good considering the actor is 27.  I'm very glad that they're showing duplicate powers, though.  That should be done a lot more in superhero stories.
[/spoiler]

Interesting start to the season...

[spoiler]

I think it's interesting that arguably the two most popular characters, Peter & Hiro, are the ones not immediately attached to the main storyline; it's better that it's them, since they're compelling enough on their own to still make you interested in what is otherwise a tangent.

Hiro in Medieval Japan is either going to end up doing the things that Kensei is famous for, or at least getting him to do them; one of those temporal paradoxes Star Trek loves to have.

When they found Peter in the cargo bin and he shot something, was it electricity or radiation?  My immediate thought was radiation, a little bolt of Ted's power, but I could be mistaken.

There are any number of reasons Peter could have no memory at this point, from the cliched bump on the head, to the Haitian getting overzealous. 

[/spoiler]

About Maya:

[spoiler]
Last week's comic introduced her and said that she created a plague, or plague-like effect which infected those around here.  Her brother could very well be a power canceler.  That would be interesting.

The comic also quoted Suresh's book, which both were reading, saying that a negative evolution can often find it's place as something good, which is why they are trying to find him for help.  That hints that Maya may end up finding some way or changing or using the ability in a less destructive manner.

Her showing up, however, could make Mohinder's double agent thing very difficult, especially if the Company decides she's too dangerous to be left alive.  Then he's be forced to choose between keeping his cover, and breaking it to save here.  I think there's at least a decent chance that's what will happen.
[/spoiler]

As for what Hiro has to do with the main story:

[spoiler]
I'm betting Takensi is one of the 12 first generation heroes.  His power has already been stated to be immortality, so he'd still be around.  In fact, he very well may have joined the group recognizing Hiro's last name.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: ips on September 25, 2007, 01:07:26 PM
regarding claire's new friend...

i'm not 100% positive obviously, but i suspect he's telekinetic and not just capable of flying. if he can just fly... well the odds are probably that he's her long lost brother. groan.

<snip>

i don't think the power is flight. i think it's telekinesis. i think they realize that more than one flying character is useless down the road if they want to use it... and since they barely used it with Sylar last season, it's fair game and still fresh. It makes the character more versatile obviously... that's my bet.

First of all, telekinesis was hardly barely used last season.   Heroes Wiki lists 34 examples.  Flight, by contrast, was used only 10 times, 2 of which were in the online comics.  Flight would be far more fresh.  There's also a new comic out featuring him, where he talks at great lengths about how cool flying is and never once mentions moving things with his mind.  But really, there isn't any evidence at all for anything besides flight, so I'm going to go with Occam's razor and say that's all he can do.

This certainly doesn't mean he has to be related to Nathan.  Everything we've seen so far indicates that what powers the parents have has absolutely nothing to do with what particular power the child gets.
[/spoiler]

My bit, I guess

[spoiler]I realize this will probably come up later in the series, but I'm curious about one thing... How did Nathan get healed, regardless of whether it was an actual healing or it's an illusion? As far as I can remember, both people (Linderman and the Illusion girl whose name I don't remember) capable of those powers got knocked off.[/spoiler]

Mostly though, I like what I've seen, but for right now I'm patient enough to see how it all plays out.

Quote from: ips on September 25, 2007, 02:33:16 PM
regarding telekinesis... maybe it was used 34 times but it was almost always used to cut open someone's head of those 34 times. there were other instances of course, and they were great but not by a lead hero character. so we've never had the opportunity to explore those powers as a viewer. also, in your snippet you cast aside the most compelling reasons that the power would be more than simple flight. it's just another useless character if it's only flight (again). not to mention they already have one useless flying character as part of the main hero lineup.

keep in mind the comics are not necessarily canon. the only thing determined from last season was that the comics are written to at least work within the continuity established, or about to be established, by the show. besides, him talking about how great flying is doesn't mean that's all he can do. it just means that's all he's discussed so far in that comic book. - but like you said, it could go either way.

Of the 34 times telekinesis examples (keep in mind that in several cases, many uses are listed in the same example) cutting someone's head open accounted for only 5 of them.  And Peter used it a few times; he's certainly a main hero character.

I wouldn't consider flight useless.  It saved the world last season, remember?  And it's certainly very good at escaping from people or getting somewhere fast.  Besides, who says that frying boy is going to participate in any sort of conflict, anyway?

[spoiler]

Quote from: Tomato on September 25, 2007, 02:49:02 PM
I realize this will probably come up later in the series, but I'm curious about one thing... How did Nathan get healed, regardless of whether it was an actual healing or it's an illusion? As far as I can remember, both people (Linderman and the Illusion girl whose name I don't remember) capable of those powers got knocked off.

First of all, Candice certainly isn't dead.  She may have been knocked out, but she was still able to use her powers to disguise herself.  If she was killed, she would have revealed her true form (an overweight teenage girl according to the comics).  Second, who says that Nathan got healed?  It's quite possible that he wasn't harmed by the explosion at all.
[/spoiler]

ips

[spoiler]

Quotei'm going to call this one way early. should be interesting to see... but the writers often employ a bait and switch tactic with the characters. at least they did last season. so the writers will push maya and use her as patter to distract the audience and resolve her story arc and when they do it will launch her brother's story arc which is the true main focus of the South American siblings' story arc. so my hunch is that maya metabolizes a plague and her brother metabolizes a vaccine... and his vaccine is what cures the hero disease suresh's sister died from and molly is ailing from.

Except that the actress for Maya has been signed on as a main cast member, and the one for her brother has not.  She was also one of the first new characters to be mentioned as one of the main ones.  In no account has the brother ever even been mentioned before.  The doesn't mean he won't end up being very important, but she is the main character, and he is the guest, make of that what you will.
[/spoiler]

Still enjoying the series a bit, that's a good start.

Not related to the latest episode, but Luke Ski published his parody song.

Holding Out For Hiro (http://www.thefump.com/fump.php?id=117) - lyrics, downloads, and bad puns away.

I suspect that both Maya and her brother will be around most of the season if not all of it.  Remember there were several characters last season who were as much "guest stars"/"reoccurring characters" as main characters.  D.L., and Angela Petrelli all both guest stars whose characters were reocurring initially to the show.  I believe there were more too, including Ando.  Several of these characters were upgraded to regular characters and stars.  However, a few still are considered "guests" or "reoccurring" characters.

[spoiler]  Yeah, the haitian wiping Peter's mind makes sense.  I'm guessing the company came in and decided to keep him alive or the haitian himself decided to keep Peter alive.  Wiping his memory does effectively take back a bunch of his powers, as he has to think of the person who has the power in order to use it, at least as far as he understands it.  Using the electricity may disprove that though, but in using other powers like his brother's flying, he might not be able to use it if he can't remember Nathan. 

Second, Matt's divorce somewhat makes sense.  He and his wife's marriage was rocky at best, and it seemed like they might have been fooling themselves at the end.  Or something else has come up like Matt is impotent and the baby isn't his.  I do like the Matt, Mohinder, Noah connection.  Also, would anyone else not mind if DL and Nikki never appeared in the series again?  I mean, their story was pretty lackluster last season, and the ends seemed pretty tied up at season's end.  Although for some reason I love the idea of Molly and Micah(?), because my mind just goes with the future of the heroes, seeing them being the future leaders of the heroes community.[/spoiler]

About Peter

[spoiler]
Why does the Hatian have to have anything to do with it?  The necklace may indicate that, but it may not.

I mean, the guy exploded, for goodness sake.  If anything could shock someone enough to induce amnesia, that would be it.

Besides, it as been established that the Hatian works for Mrs. Petrelli, and the Company considers him a rogue now and an enemy.  If he had something to do with it, Mrs. Petrelli would likely know something about it.

Or not.  I guess we'll see.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: Conduit on September 25, 2007, 03:10:35 PM
[spoiler]

Quote from: Tomato on September 25, 2007, 02:49:02 PM
I realize this will probably come up later in the series, but I'm curious about one thing... How did Nathan get healed, regardless of whether it was an actual healing or it's an illusion? As far as I can remember, both people (Linderman and the Illusion girl whose name I don't remember) capable of those powers got knocked off.

First of all, Candice certainly isn't dead.  She may have been knocked out, but she was still able to use her powers to disguise herself.  If she was killed, she would have revealed her true form (an overweight teenage girl according to the comics).  Second, who says that Nathan got healed?  It's quite possible that he wasn't harmed by the explosion at all.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Ummm... did you not see his face in the mirror of the bar? I kind of doubt he was psyching himself out had the blast not hurt him at all. I get your point about Candice, but I have a hard time believing she'd go out of her way to help Nathan with a permanent illusion after he botched Linderman's plan up so bad.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: Tomato on September 25, 2007, 08:38:51 PM
Ummm... did you not see his face in the mirror of the bar? I kind of doubt he was psyching himself out had the blast not hurt him at all. I get your point about Candice, but I have a hard time believing she'd go out of her way to help Nathan with a permanent illusion after he botched Linderman's plan up so bad.

That could have just been a hallucination.  I've looked at the reflection again, and virtually all the skin on his face is burned off.  If he had been that badly burnt, I doubt he would have survived to this point.
[/spoiler]

Is it possible that:

[spoiler]
Candace's power has grown to the point where she can create permanent illusions that stick around whether she's nearby or even consciously supporting them.  That would explain how her illusion kept after she got knocked out. (I doubt she's dead, especially as the writers mentioned more being revealed about her)

We already have seen that people in the company are not always following the same person.  Perhaps Candace, like The Hatian, follows Mrs. Petrelli, rather than Linderman.  Nathan's current appearance could just be an illusion, and being away of it, Nathan occasionally can see through it.

As for the extensive scarring, people really have lives through stuff just as bad. . .

Besides, even if he dropped Peter in the air and flew at supersonic speeds, there's no way he wouldn't get caught in at least some of the blast, which it seems to be has happened.
[/spoiler]

And about Nathan and his "useless" power

[spoiler]
Is Nathan's power really useless because it is by it's very nature, or because he doesn't use it?

Think about it, all last season, Nathan absolutely refused to use his powers, and even pretended that he didn't have them, unless actually forced to use them.  Even so far this season, he seems to not be using them at all.

The new kid, on the other hand, seems to use them quite causually.  Perhaps they are trying to redeem that particular power.  Superspeed flight is not that bad of a power, really, not if used right, but Nathan never used it.

We may find it a whole lot cooler by the end of the season.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 26, 2007, 07:38:25 AM
Is it possible that:

[spoiler]
Candace's power has grown to the point where she can create permanent illusions that stick around whether she's nearby or even consciously supporting them.  That would explain how her illusion kept after she got knocked out. (I doubt she's dead, especially as the writers mentioned more being revealed about her)

We already have seen that people in the company are not always following the same person.  Perhaps Candace, like The Hatian, follows Mrs. Petrelli, rather than Linderman.  Nathan's current appearance could just be an illusion, and being away of it, Nathan occasionally can see through it.

As for the extensive scarring, people really have lives through stuff just as bad. . .

Besides, even if he dropped Peter in the air and flew at supersonic speeds, there's no way he wouldn't get caught in at least some of the blast, which it seems to be has happened.
[/spoiler]

And about Nathan and his "useless" power

[spoiler]
Is Nathan's power really useless because it is by it's very nature, or because he doesn't use it?

Think about it, all last season, Nathan absolutely refused to use his powers, and even pretended that he didn't have them, unless actually forced to use them.  Even so far this season, he seems to not be using them at all.

The new kid, on the other hand, seems to use them quite causually.  Perhaps they are trying to redeem that particular power.  Superspeed flight is not that bad of a power, really, not if used right, but Nathan never used it.

We may find it a whole lot cooler by the end of the season.
[/spoiler]

On the flying, exactly.  For example, if someone flew around in a a circle fast enough, they could create a big whirlwind.  Or, if someone flew forward at a high speed, that would would make him/her a human battering ram.

I'll be curious to see what the producers do with the power of flight on this show.  My interpretation of the first season was that with only flight as a power, finding uses for it could be difficult.

Not being any physically tougher or stronger than an ordinary human, trying to be a flying battering ram could result in as much damage to the flier as to the target.

I also have images of somebody flying fast enough to create a whirlwind... and then getting caught in the uncontrollable wind currents.

[spoiler]This issue of flight is interesting to me. I think flight would be a cool power because of its uses purely as transportation. If, as depicted last season, Nathan not just flies, but flies at very high speeds (something we haven't seen of West), then that makes him very useful. In real life, I would rather be able to do that than to do something like liquefy solid objects. (Actually, they would both be pretty cool, but flight is very practical.) Meanwhile, a power isn't at all useless just because it isn't a combat power or doesn't look cool on camera. I would be very happy if they found an interesting way for Nathan to be able to advance the plot, as he often did last season, whether or not it involves him being shown flying all the time.

I tend to assume that Candace's illusions are neither mental illusions nor simple light illusions that she has to concentrate to maintain. If they were mental (meaning that she tricks the victim's brain into seeing light that isn't there) then it wouldn't make sense that people she hadn't yet used the power on would see them. In other words her form (and anything else she "illusioned") would differ for everyone who looked upon her unless she affected them. And, realistically, in today's world, you can only go on so long before someone notices that the picture they have of you on a cell phone or in the security camera isn't what's standing in front of them. She would seem to need some sort of persistent illusion power to do what she does. Of course, if that were the case, we don't know the illusions would necessarily go away if she were incapacitated or even dead.

I don't know exactly what happened to Nathan regarding his wounds, but if he was burned over half of his body the way they depicted on his face (and there is every reason to believe he would have been) then he would not survive without supernatural help, like a Linderman-like character could provide. He would need constant hospital care and isolation just to keep from getting infections.

BTW, if he really is scarred like that and his unscarred visage is some sort of persistent light illusion, then why did he see through it when he looked in the mirror? I have a sinking feeling that it's going to turn out that he is covered by an illusion but they decided to give us that "reveal" because it is so dramatic, even if it isn't terribly realistic. Of course, one answer was that both illusion and hallucination were at play in that scene. What everyone sees could be an illusion and what Nathan saw was actually his hallucination of what was really below the illusion, something brought on by his anxiety about what he knows is there...

BTW, since when is Claire smart? I mean, I know all she was shown doing in the classroom scene was knowing something that most people probably know anyway, but I worry they will try to retrofit her into some sort of brainy character mold, which I don't think is consistent with what we have seen so far.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
Or maybe the burns that Nathan saw in the mirror are just a hallucination.  After all, he did look confused by them, and they weren't there when he looked at them again.  Maybe it's some sort of future premonition, maybe it's some sort of psychological attack sent by a bad guy (perhaps the guy Molly keeps seeing), but really I can't see how it could be real in any way.

And by the way, in the episode Five Years Gone, Sylar was able to use Candice's power to fool cameras.

QuoteBTW, since when is Claire smart? I mean, I know all she was shown doing in the classroom scene was knowing something that most people probably know anyway, but I worry they will try to retrofit her into some sort of brainy character mold, which I don't think is consistent with what we have seen so far.

Since when is she stupid?  The impression I got from Season 1 is that she's a pretty average student as far as grades are concerned.  All she did was get one question right, and I doubt they'll show her schoolwork much.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Nathan's visage could be the result of his character being put through the whole split personality because of trauma thing that was driving the Nikki/Jessica plot last season[/spoiler]

[spoiler]i just think its odd that West drove to school if he could fly.  if i was 17 and could fly. i sure as heck wouldn't be driving.  that ups the creep factor quite a bit in my books.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: detourne_me on September 26, 2007, 03:11:35 PM
i just think its odd that West drove to school if he could fly.  if i was 17 and could fly. i sure as heck wouldn't be driving.  that ups the creep factor quite a bit in my books.

He probably doesn't want people to wonder how he gets to school everyday.  From the comic, he obviously doesn't want people to know that he can fly, even if he isn't careful at all about keeping the secret.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: Conduit on September 26, 2007, 02:43:50 PM
Or maybe the burns that Nathan saw in the mirror are just a hallucination.  After all, he did look confused by them, and they weren't there when he looked at them again.  Maybe it's some sort of future premonition, maybe it's some sort of psychological attack sent by a bad guy (perhaps the guy Molly keeps seeing), but really I can't see how it could be real in any way.

Good point. It could just be a simple hallucination. They still have a lot of explaining to do about how he survived and why he has apparently taken such a psychological beat-down. Obviously, all that could help explain an overactive imagination, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they were foreshadowing some of that story.

Quote from: Conduit on September 26, 2007, 02:43:50 PMAnd by the way, in the episode Five Years Gone, Sylar was able to use Candice's power to fool cameras.

That agrees with the idea of light illusions, rather than mental ones. BTW, do we know that's really where Sylar got the power? He couldn't have killed another illusionist or shapeshifter?

Quote from: Conduit on September 26, 2007, 02:43:50 PM

QuoteBTW, since when is Claire smart? I mean, I know all she was shown doing in the classroom scene was knowing something that most people probably know anyway, but I worry they will try to retrofit her into some sort of brainy character mold, which I don't think is consistent with what we have seen so far.

Since when is she stupid? 

Since when did I say she was stupid?

Quote from: Conduit on September 26, 2007, 02:43:50 PMThe impression I got from Season 1 is that she's a pretty average student as far as grades are concerned.  All she did was get one question right, and I doubt they'll show her schoolwork much.

Exactly - she was an average student, as best we could tell. Not that they ever really went into it, but they gave plenty of focus to her at school and we never were given any hints that she was exceptional. With West's comment that she is smart but doesn't want anyone to know it (part of his glib theory about aliens and robots), I just don't want them changing gears on us without some explanation.

And, overall, meh. Let them do what they want. If it turns out that now that she won't be spending all those hours a week at cheer leading practice, it wouldn't really be much of a stretch for her to move up in the ranks academically. It they write it like that, then I have no problem with it.
[/spoiler]

Also,
[spoiler]I agree about West not flying to school. He'd be an idiot to draw that kind of attention to himself. [/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on September 26, 2007, 06:12:13 PM

Quote from: Conduit on September 26, 2007, 02:43:50 PMAnd by the way, in the episode Five Years Gone, Sylar was able to use Candice's power to fool cameras.

That agrees with the idea of light illusions, rather than mental ones. BTW, do we know that's really where Sylar got the power? He couldn't have killed another illusionist or shapeshifter?

He said, "I've certainly gotten enough power, met enough 'special' people.  Like this girl Candice who helped me become president."  So, yeah, he almost certainly got it from her.  Besides, the special effects are the same, so its definitely the same power regardless of who he got it from.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]of course would be an idiot if he flew to school,  but he'd also be an adolescent kid.  c'mon even Invincible and Spider-Man fly to school and they're bona-fide heroes.    thats why i'm saying it ups his creep factor if he drives to school.  means he either has some uncanny foresight for a teenager, or he's got someone experienced with powers giving him directions... maybe someone from the company.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: detourne_me on September 27, 2007, 08:38:18 AM
of course would be an idiot if he flew to school,  but he'd also be an adolescent kid.  c'mon even Invincible and Spider-Man fly to school and they're bona-fide heroes.    thats why i'm saying it ups his creep factor if he drives to school.  means he either has some uncanny foresight for a teenager, or he's got someone experienced with powers giving him directions... maybe someone from the company.

I assume you mean Spider-Man web swings to school?  Anyway, he goes to a college in New York City, where it's no big deal to get around by walking and using public transportation.  Costa Verda could well be a place where people normally drive everywhere.  And besides other kids and teachers wondering how West gets to school, there's also the issue of his parents, whom he may be keeping this secret from.  It'd be kind of hard to keep them from knowing that he didn't drive to school.  As for being an adolescent kid, I'm an adolescent and if I could fly I probably wouldn't go to school that way.
[/spoiler]

Well, looks like the writers blew it.

What I mean is, that they said they would make the show so that new viewers could pick it up and understand.

I just talked to my sister, who has only watch an odd episode of last season here and there--and was throughly confused by what she saw.

She said the episode assumed that the viewers knew too many things about the characters.  Her roomates, who had not seen anything of it before, found the show impossible to follow and extremely confusing, because they didn't know who these people were, and why they seemed to be connected.

A couple of explanatory lines here and there would have done it, but they didn't have any of those.

Interesting.

My office is full of rabid Heroes fans.  Their biggest complaint about the premiere: "It was boring! They spent too much time going over what happened last year!"

Can't please everybody, I guess.

Aside from the creepy new kid I thought this episode was cool!  The new boy is too weird....I suppose if I could fly in High school I might use my powers to look in girls bedroom windows...then again I've never been the stalking type. 

A word or two about Claire's Intelligence:

[spoiler]The point they were trying to make with her knowing the answer wasn't that she knew the answer ... most of the kids in the class (if not all) knew the answer.  It's that she was being a "robot" and following the herd of lemmings by not raising her hand to answer the teacher.  Or at least that is the way "the creepy new kid" would see her.   BTW, i would still (ok maybe not still) use a flying ability to window peak  :unsure: ...  to anyone who says they wouldn't:  I suppose invisibilty would never be used in the girls shower either right?[/spoiler]

Quote from: Kitt Basher on September 29, 2007, 08:50:23 AM
A word or two about Claire's Intelligence:

[spoiler]The point they were trying to make with her knowing the answer wasn't that she knew the answer ... most of the kids in the class (if not all) knew the answer.  It's that she was being a "robot" and following the herd of lemmings by not raising her hand to answer the teacher.  Or at least that is the way "the creepy new kid" would see her.   BTW, i would still (ok maybe not still) use a flying ability to window peak  :unsure: ...  to anyone who says they wouldn't:  I suppose invisibilty would never be used in the girls shower either right?[/spoiler]

Kitt:
[spoiler]
Shower, not so much- the water would give away your outline :D.  The locker room itself,, hell yes.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]The difference being that, when you're invisible, it's somewhat less likely that you'll be caught using your power because, umm, you're invisible.  :P Seriously, though, when I said he'd be an idiot to fly to school, it's not about whether there'd be a temptation to (mis)use his powers, it's whether he could do it without getting caught. You might be tempted to use X-ray vision for some prurient purpose, but you'd be pretty careful about it if everyone saw bright blue beams leaving your eyes. As far as I could tell, that peepage scene took place in the dark where he wasn't especially likey to be seen. That's is in pretty stark contrast to flying to and from school during the daytime. [/spoiler]

Quick thoughts:

[spoiler]
The Hatian is back!  One thing I can't understand, is why didn't the Company warn him about his powers?  I mean they scold him for letting it happen, but how was he supposed to know?  And why didn't HRG let him know too, since it seems the Hatian is on their side.

The new painting series is a nice little plot development.  It works, as long as they don't try that again next season.

Our second duplicate power, it seems, since Takensi seems to be a regenerator like Claire.  This may also mean that Claire will be alive a long, long time.  Which makes sense, really.

Yup, just as we suspected Hiro was responsible for some of the Takensi legends, although it seems that some will be done by the man himself.

Well, it's confirmed that Maya's brother definitely has a power, and that he can cure her disease, even in other people.  Her powers are definitely creepy, I'll give them that.

I'm liking Matt's new role as a detective.  It works and gives him a far more central role this time, as he's now right at the center of things.
[/spoiler]

Cat, some responses:

[spoiler]
Yay!  I really liked the Hatian, and I am looking forward to him and HRG teaming up again.  As far as Mohinder, I think you missed it slightly, Cat.  It was indicated in the dialog between Mohinder and HRG that it was PLANNED for him to pretend the Hatian had mindwipped him.  The fact that the Hatian was SENT to meet HRG proves that, as Mohinder couldn't do it, be mindwipped, and then be aware of it.  However, why the Company didn't tell him...that's a good question.

I'm wondering of Takensi is just a healer, something he said right before he died made me wonder.  "Maybe I'll be a hero next time around."  I wonder if he's more like Immortal Man....either way, poor Hiro!  He's met the girl of his dreams, and now he has to let another man romance her....terrible!  I was really excited when Hiro took the armor...and I rather wish they had just let Takensi die, and let Hiro BECOME Takensi.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

• I don't think we've seen the last of this development with "who is behind the Takeshi legend" as it seems that he is more out for the glory than to do the right thing.  SO . . . who thinks that Hiro winds up doing most of the dirty work.  I'll go with him being a duplication of Claire's power for now as I took his comment to be a reference to "reincarnation".  However, the other could be very valid, especially with this "other big bad" that Molly has been seeing in her dreams.
•   Two things that jumped out about the whole Matt/Petrelli/Ando killer thing:  one being that Mrs. Angela Petrelli knew Matt was reading her mind.  She could hear him read her thoughts and talked back to him.  What's that saying about her power?  Also, she mentioned that the symbol on her photo as that of her husband's law firm. 
• Mohinnder definitely faked having his memory wiped.  The conversation after the fact with him and Noah confirms as much.  Nice to see The Haitian and HRG back together as a team.
• What is the deal with Nathan and Peter and mirrors?  They did a similar shot tonight with Peter and a mirror implying that he should be seeing something that he isn't.
• Any bets on which of the pair of Irish siblings have a power?  I figure its one and not both.  However, it could very well be neither.
• As for Maya and Alejandro, their powers are apparently tied to Mayan Mythology, the Mayan god Quetzalcoatl, and the end of The Age of The Jaguar.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I don't think that it necessarily follows that Mrs. Petrelli could 'hear' Parkman read her mind.  I think that she deduced what he was doing when he mentioned "revenge."  She obviously is familiar with people with powers, so she just 'shouted' in her mind when he looked back at her.[/spoiler]

Quote from: BentonGrey on October 01, 2007, 07:21:26 PM
Cat, some responses:

[spoiler]
Yay!  I really liked the Hatian, and I am looking forward to him and HRG teaming up again.  As far as Mohinder, I think you missed it slightly, Cat.  It was indicated in the dialog between Mohinder and HRG that it was PLANNED for him to pretend the Hatian had mindwipped him.  The fact that the Hatian was SENT to meet HRG proves that, as Mohinder couldn't do it, be mindwipped, and then be aware of it.  However, why the Company didn't tell him...that's a good question.

I'm wondering of Takensi is just a healer, something he said right before he died made me wonder.  "Maybe I'll be a hero next time around."  I wonder if he's more like Immortal Man....either way, poor Hiro!  He's met the girl of his dreams, and now he has to let another man romance her....terrible!  I was really excited when Hiro took the armor...and I rather wish they had just let Takensi die, and let Hiro BECOME Takensi.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]It's a good point, but I get the feelin that his statement was more intended as a "I'm going to be reincarnated" kind of thing. My question would be: is it Generalized healing, or is it just for fatal wounds? Because I doubt he would be hiding behind trees and things if he thought he could heal everything, even if he is a coward.

It makes you wonder though... if he just found out about this ability, it'd be interesting to see how he tries to take advantage of it.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]With all the talk last week about West possibly being telekinetic rather than just a flyer, did anyone else think that he may have been responsible for Claire's car going missing making the fact the doors were unlocked insignificant?[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
Some general thoughts on the episode:

• The opening scene of Holt's thieves accusing Peter of stealing the iPods was not credible. No one is going to steal a shipment of iPods and then lock himself in the shipping container. I'm sorry, but it just isn't believable that they thought he stole the iPods that they were going to steal. I know that they wanted information, whether or not he was the man who took the iPods, but they would have had a smarter approach than beating the snot out of the one guy they can see who didn't take them.


• Apparently, Bennet isn't going to come clean that he isn't being as normal as he wants Claire to be. And, to some degree, Claire is correct that she would be better with some personality at school, since she doesn't want to get noticed as the potentially psycho girl who doesn't do anything, doesn't talk to anyone, etc. Obviously, she shouldn't become a campus celebrity, but there shouldn't be any problem with her having some distinctive profile, as long as it isn't the same one she had in Odessa.


• So Hiro is doing what I think most of us thought he was going to do, take Kensei's place in some of the feats for which Kensei is famous.


• I actually forgot that Peter met DL. I thought he was going to express a different power to free himself from those ropes.


• There's a storm tunnel that goes under a river? <grumble>


• I am assuming that Kensei heals when he dies. Not exactly the same as Claire's power (though Claire does that, too, from what we have seen). His power seems closer to a short-term reincarnation, thus far.


• Peter would help those rogues out of "common courtesy"? Bah! What courtesy has he been shown, besides being tied up and having the tar beaten out of him by those same people? I would have loved it to have seen Peter snag the box with his personal items telekinetically and tell Holt to bugger off. I think it's likely that Caitlin has some power that develops later on and she needs to become part of the regulars, but I am not at all sympathetic to the brother or his crew.


• I am also stoked to see the Haitian return. I love that "Welcome to Copy Kingdom" line when the Haitian shows up at Bennet's work. And, I admit that I grinned at the irony that the man who erases things is to team up with the man in the copying business.


• I guess if they are going to portray Claire as smart in some academic sense, they are certainly highlighting the contrast between intelligence and wisdom. Let's hope Mrs. Bennet isn't too upset when she finds that severed toe.
  
  BTW, the toenail on Claire's toe regrew as well as the living parts of it. A little odd, but I think we have seen her hair come back in short order before, so that's part of the power's effect, even if it is a bit iffy. And, after all, the epidermis is mostly dead skin cells and she always seems to get that back (instead of her skin looking really pink after a heal), so no big deal.
  
  (BTBTW, who's to say the toe itself can't regenerate into a whole new Claire? I saw a Japanese monster movie once where that happened. :P)

Other bits:

I don't know why "Midas" didn't let Mohinder know about the Haitian's power. But, I don't even know that the Haitian even really did anything to Mohinder. It certainly didn't seem that way when Mohinder talked to Bennet. I am leaving this open, since we don't really know one way or the other.

Also, do we know that the Haitian gains (or at least has access to) the memories he erases? It almost seems like he has to, otherwise how would he know when to stop? He seems to be able to erase memory of fairly specific events, when he couldn't know ahead of time for how long the victim had known the target fact (so it seems unlikely he's just erasing back to a certain length of time).

I agree that we never really saw Mrs Petrelli "hear" Matt's power working. I think she was tipped off because she was just thinking about revenge and then he asks her about revenge. Matt's kind of sloppy about that sort of thing.

Also, I doubt that Mrs. Petrelli is this season's big bad. It seems she took kind of a beating in that interrogation room by either the actual big bad or (more likely) a minion.

[/spoiler]

On a completely unrelated note - HRG and family are "laying low" and not drawing attention to themselves.  In order to do this he takes a meaningless job as the Assistant Manager in a copy shop.  And somehow on an Assistant Manager's "salary" he can afford to give his daughter a huge brand new car and house his family in a HUGE suburban home.

'Cause living WAAAAY above your apparent means is a GREAT way to lie low.

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 02, 2007, 03:07:08 AM
Some general thoughts on the episode:
BTW, the toenail on Claire's toe regrew as well as the living parts of it. A little odd, but I think we have seen her hair come back in short order before, so that's part of the power's effect, even if it is a bit iffy.

No, we haven't.  I'm sure she can cut her hair, otherwise it would be extremely long by now.
[/spoiler]

Conduit, I believe Stumpy was referring to the scene where she was burnt by radiation in Season 1.  If I remember correctly, her hair was pretty badly ruined, but regenerated with the rest of her.  I could be wrong, however.

for some reason I thought there were more commercials then usual.  That was annoying. It was every 10 minutes.

Seemed about normal to me.  By the way, every 10 minutes is actually about normal.

Last weeks, there were fewer, but that was a special occasion.

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 02, 2007, 07:28:50 AM
Seemed about normal to me.  By the way, every 10 minutes is actually about normal.

Last weeks, there were fewer, but that was a special occasion.

that's probably why I thought there was more.

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 02, 2007, 05:54:12 AMConduit, I believe Stumpy was referring to the scene where she was burnt by radiation in Season 1.  If I remember correctly, her hair was pretty badly ruined, but regenerated with the rest of her.  I could be wrong, however.

That's right. I was thinking about her eyebrows being burned off when she injects Ted with the sedative last season. Her whole face is shown being scorched as she approaches Ted. Then, as she walks back outside, her face regenerates and she has eyebrows again by the time she hugs HRG.

Also, we now know that Peter doesn't have to think of the power he's gonna use.

If Peter is actually blackmailed by the threat of a box being held over a fire, that's just lazy.  He's already re-demonstrated telekinesis, which would be more than enough to grab the box in question, but he's still also got Hiro's power rattling around in there somewhere.  Even invisibility might let him seem to disappear while he grabbed it. 

[spoiler]Yeah Peter is showing some instinctive control of his powers. It's frustrating when he can't use them consistently, so I am glad to see that.

However, a fully-in-control Peter should be able to crush just about anyone. That's a problem the writers this season are going to have to deal with and I guess their first attempt is the amnesia. Peter isn't sure which powers he has and he isn't very clear on how to call them forth. I think that's the explanation for his not just taking the box and leaving Holt standing there wondering how his pistol got up his butt.


BTW, is anyone else impressed at how much facility Hiro exhibited in using his powers? He has gone from just trying and hoping it works to pretty reliably using at at will. He certainly seemed well in control of things when he disarmed those guys of their swords and then their archery equipment. "Go now, before I take your clothes next!" (http://home.graffiti.net/stumpyanker:graffiti.net/emoticons/laugh-rolling.gif) He was getting so good at it that I was almost surprised that he didn't stop that attack on Kensei at the end (or at least the last - fatal - arrow). I guess he was just surprised.[/spoiler]

My thoughts:

[spoiler]
It's interesting to see that Claire can regrow limbs.  Frying boy has just gotten more annoying and creepy.  How frequently has he been looking into the windows of Claire's house over the past 2 episodes?

Peter using all his powers would be cool, if it didn't make absolutely no sense.  In Distractions, he specifically said that he had to remember the original source of the power in order to use it (not to mention that he now doesn't remember Claude's training).  Unless something weird is going on, that's a major continuity error.  The only thing that suggests there may be more to it is how his abilities seemed to fire off semi-randomly.  He shot lightning at a thug, was confused, then pointed his hand at the other guy as if he was trying to do the same thing, only he TKed the gun instead.

Kensei is really cool.  "You look like a fish when you talk...Like a giant carp."  I also like Hiro's "Have you seen a scary white man?"  I also liked the scene where he dressed up as Kensei and disarmed all the samurai, especially when one of them said, "Why does he keep saying his own name?"  Man, we've gotten some good lines out of that story arc.  The only thing I'm worried about is Kensei's revealed power.  I really hope that there's a good reason why he pulled that "hide in a tree and pick them off from afar" trick instead of just walking into the group and easily killing them all with his sword.  I also hope that they don't try to make it so that Claire's power prevents the owner from aging, because Peter sure looked like he had aged a little in Five Years Gone.

It's good to have the Haitian back.
[/spoiler]

Stumpy:
[spoiler]
It does seem that Hiro's major weakness is being surprised.  He seems to lose his control over his powers whenever startled or shocked, which is how he ended up back in ancient Japan in the first place.  Personally, I think that works and is believable, especially given Hiro's personality.
[/spoiler]

Conduit:
[spoiler]

QuoteIn Distractions, he specifically said that he had to remember the original source of the power in order to use it (not to mention that he now doesn't remember Claude's training).

Peter also said that he could only use powers when around somebody.  Just because he can only do something one way at one point in time, doesn't mean that he won't learn to grow past that limitation later on.  It seems to me that Peter is learning to use certain of his power instinctually, like when he uses Claire's regeneration.

QuoteI also hope that they don't try to make it so that Claire's power prevents the owner from aging, because Peter sure looked like he had aged a little in Five Years Gone.

Peter also doesn't have that power on all the time.  Just because he ages, at least a little, doesn't mean that those with that power innate won't.   Besides, duplicate powers don't have to be exactly the same.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote
Conduit:

QuoteIn Distractions, he specifically said that he had to remember the original source of the power in order to use it (not to mention that he now doesn't remember Claude's training).

Peter also said that he could only use powers when around somebody.  Just because he can only do something one way at one point in time, doesn't mean that he won't learn to grow past that limitation later on.  It seems to me that Peter is learning to use certain of his power instinctually, like when he uses Claire's regeneration.

That time, we were given a clear explanation why he was able to use his powers outside of their presence.  This time, we're given nothing, we're just supposed to accept that it happened, even though it violates what's been previously established.  And how can you talk about him having learned to get past a limitation when he's forgotten everything?  Really, all I want is a good explanation.

Quote

QuoteI also hope that they don't try to make it so that Claire's power prevents the owner from aging, because Peter sure looked like he had aged a little in Five Years Gone.

Peter also doesn't have that power on all the time.  Just because he ages, at least a little, doesn't mean that those with that power innate won't.   Besides, duplicate powers don't have to be exactly the same.

Claire's power heals damage after it occurs.  If Peter is wounded when he doesn't have the power on, the wound heals when it is turned on.  If it healed the effects of aging, then every time Peter turned it on his age would "reset" to around his early twenties.  So unless he never used it after about 2 or 3 years since the explosion (very unlikely), he shouldn't have looked any older.  There's also the fact that Sylar didn't get any younger after he stole her power.  If the power is different when it comes to aging, then that's good.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: Conduit on October 02, 2007, 02:56:23 PM
My thoughts:

[spoiler]
It's interesting to see that Claire can regrow limbs.  Frying boy has just gotten more annoying and creepy.  How frequently has he been looking into the windows of Claire's house over the past 2 episodes?

Peter using all his powers would be cool, if it didn't make absolutely no sense.  In Distractions, he specifically said that he had to remember the original source of the power in order to use it (not to mention that he now doesn't remember Claude's training).  Unless something weird is going on, that's a major continuity error.  The only thing that suggests there may be more to it is how his abilities seemed to fire off semi-randomly.  He shot lightning at a thug, was confused, then pointed his hand at the other guy as if he was trying to do the same thing, only he TKed the gun instead.

Kensei is really cool.  "You look like a fish when you talk...Like a giant carp."  I also like Hiro's "Have you seen a scary white man?"  I also liked the scene where he dressed up as Kensei and disarmed all the samurai, especially when one of them said, "Why does he keep saying his own name?"  Man, we've gotten some good lines out of that story arc.  The only thing I'm worried about is Kensei's revealed power.  I really hope that there's a good reason why he pulled that "hide in a tree and pick them off from afar" trick instead of just walking into the group and easily killing them all with his sword.  I also hope that they don't try to make it so that Claire's power prevents the owner from aging, because Peter sure looked like he had aged a little in Five Years Gone.

It's good to have the Haitian back.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Just a few thoughts on this...

As I recall, Peter's ability was more caused by how that person made him feel, so by trying to be cold and emotionless during the training he effectively negated his own abilities. His emotions were firing off due to his confusion, so it's likely that even pure chance would instigate SOMETHING, even if it's completely random.

As for Kensei... a few things. Again, I think his power is being unable to die, not purely healing. He looked as shocked as Hiro when he healed, and even a coward would have picked up SOME kind of cuts and scrapes by now. If it's just mortal wounds he's healing from though, it would still make sense... he hasn't died before, so he wouldn't know he couldn't die, and thus would be a coward. [/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: Tomato on October 02, 2007, 03:28:38 PM
Just a few thoughts on this...

As I recall, Peter's ability was more caused by how that person made him feel, so by trying to be cold and emotionless during the training he effectively negated his own abilities. His emotions were firing off due to his confusion, so it's likely that even pure chance would instigate SOMETHING, even if it's completely random.

That could work, especially since they did seem to pop out randomly, but he specifically said "I have to remember her."  It's so specific, it almost sounds like foreshadowing.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: Conduit on October 02, 2007, 03:24:31 PM
Claire's power heals damage after it occurs.  If Peter is wounded when he doesn't have the power on, the wound heals when it is turned on.  If it healed the effects of aging, then every time Peter turned it on his age would "reset" to around his early twenties.  So unless he never used it after about 2 or 3 years since the explosion (very unlikely), he shouldn't have looked any older.  There's also the fact that Sylar didn't get any younger after he stole her power.  If the power is different when it comes to aging, then that's good.

I don't think it would be that unlikely that Peter wouldn't have used Claire's power over those years.  Keep in mind that 5 years in the future, Peter had a giant scar across his face and Future Hiro said when he travelled to the past that he almost didn't recognize Peter without the scar.  That implies that Peter has had the scar for some time at that point.  So if he had used the power at some point, why wouldn't that scar have healed?  And if he hadn't used the power, why didn't he?
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: Adamence on October 02, 2007, 04:02:54 PM

Quote from: Conduit on October 02, 2007, 03:24:31 PM
Claire's power heals damage after it occurs.  If Peter is wounded when he doesn't have the power on, the wound heals when it is turned on.  If it healed the effects of aging, then every time Peter turned it on his age would "reset" to around his early twenties.  So unless he never used it after about 2 or 3 years since the explosion (very unlikely), he shouldn't have looked any older.  There's also the fact that Sylar didn't get any younger after he stole her power.  If the power is different when it comes to aging, then that's good.

I don't think it would be that unlikely that Peter wouldn't have used Claire's power over those years.  Keep in mind that 5 years in the future, Peter had a giant scar across his face and Future Hiro said when he travelled to the past that he almost didn't recognize Peter without the scar.  That implies that Peter has had the scar for some time at that point.  So if he had used the power at some point, why wouldn't that scar have healed?  And if he hadn't used the power, why didn't he?

Once scar tissue is in place, it's healed as far as the body is concerned.  So he'd only need to not use the power while he got the scar and it healed on its own (I've speculated that he was knocked unconscious shortly after being wounded and stayed unconscious until it healed normally).  After that, if he turned on the power the scar would stay as it was.  I highly doubt that he could live for 5 years, much less spend much of that time fighting in a rebellion against the government and never get any sort of injury that would be more conveniently healed by turning on regeneration.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]A few things.  I don't think that Angela is the big bad this time around either.  Seems pretty clear that the attack was genuine, but I could be wrong.  Also, I have this weird feeling that Kensei is the guy killing off the old group.  I mean, leaping off a building to kill Nakamura only to be able to walk away.  Although, I have an even larger feeling that it's a red herring. 

I'm kind of caught in between about Suresh being mindwiped.  I mean, how could Noah know that the Haitian was going to get ill?  He couldn't, and therefore the Haitian wouldn't know not to mindwipe him.  There is no reason for Suresh to truth the Haitian and vice versa, but I like how Noah pulled Suresh back into the loop.  I like this tearing apart from the inside that he, Suresh, and Matt are doing. 

I agree with most of you that Peter just seems to be acting out randomly, seemingly surprised each time he displays a power.  Although so far, I'm liking how this season is panning out, and not surprisingly, I'm most interested in the Matt, Suresh, and Noah storyline.  It has so many possibilities, and really allows the older generation to develop as we understand the company more and more, and understand thier differences.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]On Claire's regen:  There could also be a subconscious element to it, she's being regenerated back to what her mental image of herself would be, explaining hair length, nails, etc.  Her regen could keep her young, if it's active all the time (as opposed to only when injured....we've yet to see), but Peter's use of it is as-needed, so he's used to seeing himself in the mirror with all the normal effects of time.  It's also possible that she couldn't *initially* regrow limbs, at least not while conscious, until she essentially willed it to happen.  Knowing that she can do it will allow her to do it on the fly now, like any of her normal regen.[/spoiler]

I suspect the Peter storyline is tied to the Matt/HRG/Suresh/Hatian storyline.

Thoughts on the first two episodes, by character, Part 1:

Claire
[spoiler]
While Hayden is doing a great job selling Claire's frustration, I'm not entirely sure I buy shed be willing to cut off her own toe, just to see what happened (and don't even try to tell me she doesn't have some form of heightened pain resistance after that).  At the moment, her soon to be boy toy has gone way past cute and well into creepy stalker territory.

I do not think that because he can fly we've necessarily started to see duplicate powers.  I believe he has a power that allows him to fly; i.e. telekinesis, magnetism or gravity manipulation (which would also explains Claire's car- as I'd bet money he was behind that) rather than simply having flying AS a power. Oh, and since the comics are canon and he apparently flies to school, he's a complete moron, as well.

As for Claire's power, I think it merely returns her body to the point it was when her powers kicked in.  This would explain why her hair would regrow when burned off, but not when cut.

Kudos to Mr. Muggles trainer, btw. Him looking up into the air and barking while Claire stands clueless made me LOL.
[/spoiler]

Peter
[spoiler]
Ok first off,as others have mentioned Peter should not have access to his powers at all, as they are based on feelings associated with memories of a particular person. No memories=no powers, its just that simple.  I suppose I can get around this somewhat by saying that hes around people who remind him of people with powers (i.e. When hot Irish Gangster took care of him, that reminded him of when Claire took care of him so her powers kicked in)

In addition, I don't think the gangsters believe Peter stole the Ipods by himself, but perhaps that he was betrayed by the people he was working with and left there while they took the Ipods. 

Still, I shouldn't have to fanwank quite this hard to explain their continuity errors.

The amnesia is a tad cheesy for my taste, and best not happen again- the only real storyline left for Peter though, once he gets it back, is the knock down, drag out with his ideological opposite that they cheated us out of last season.

However, given that, I actually don't have a problem with him not trying for the box yet. As far as he knows, these abilities have only manifested when he or someone else was in danger.  I doubt he'd be willing to risk his identity on whether or not he can manifest them at will - yet.
[/spoiler]

Maya/Alejandro
[spoiler]
Wow, welcome to the Niki/Jessica of season 2.  Just a complete drag on the show. Momentum and interest killers every time they appear (and they don't even have the stripper angle to make  me care, like they did last season).

While I do think that exploring the "Wow, my powers SUCK." theme is a valid storytelling choice, they really need to do it with better characters, not these whiny irritating peons.

Oh, and X-files called. They want their black oil back.
[/spoiler]

More to come

A response on Peter's use of powers:

[spoiler]Yes, last season he said that he could use other people's powers by remembering them, what it was like to be near them, etc, blah blah blah.  To take that explanation by him as being the *only* way he can ever access his powers is very limited, narrow-minded thinking (whether you're a fan or a writer).  The best parallel I can draw is any trained athlete (gymnasts & martial artists work best in this one) that feel they *have* to concentrate to be able to get the performance they want, suddenly being surprised by something & having to respond, without thinking.  They suddenly perform just about as well, perhaps better, than when they're "concentrating" on what they want.  A character with a self-imposed mental block on accessing their powers is not a new twist, and I'm a little disappointed no one here has brought it up before now.  We're all much smarter than this, and I expect more from us.  Hollywood can still get by with the "stupid" excuse.  ;)[/spoiler]

Panther-

I disagree. To violate, without explanation, established rules about a characters powers is simply bad writing.

If all of a sudden, Superman started getting MORE powerful under a red sun, not less, you wouldn't make the claim that "Superman only has powers under a yellow sun" is  limited, narrow-minded thinking, would you?

[spoiler]I think we're mostly overlooking the fact that Peter said, "I have to remember her, the way she made me feel."  So, it may very well be an emotional response, not a mental one, just as his emotions caused the release of Ted's power without him consciously focusing on it.  So, I think we can say that, by the end of the first season, they were definitely showing us a Peter not bound by conscious recollection in the use of his powers.[/spoiler]

Quote from: bredon7777 on October 04, 2007, 06:46:15 AM
Panther-

I disagree. To violate, without explanation, established rules about a characters powers is simply bad writing.

If all of a sudden, Superman started getting MORE powerful under a red sun, not less, you wouldn't make the claim that "Superman only has powers under a yellow sun" is  limited, narrow-minded thinking, would you?

Well aside from the fact that powers from a genetic source requiring a set of rules for them to work would be completely absurd (ie: What gene regulates having to think about someone, and how does it trigger the power?), I think the rules were Peter's own.  It was a mnemonic exercise that worked when he needed it to.  At first, he believed he had to touch someone, which was true while he believed it.  Then he had to think about someone, because that's what worked for him.  Now, he has no memory of anyone, but his body would still have the instinct of self-preservation.  Thus, a new trigger - in this case it seems to be instinct - is needed to control the power.  Eventually he should just be able to call upon the powers at will.  How much of a stretch is it to forego thinking about the person who has a power and simply think about the power, especially after using it for a time?  Its like martial arts.  When I was 15 I had to think about an incoming attack and how to block it.  At 35, my arm just does it even though I am years out of practice.  Same with cycling, swimming, skating (roller or ice) and skiing.  I, nor anyone else who is proficient, has to think about these things once they are learned.  I really doubt that life would evolve into something with that kind of counter-intuitive trigger mechanism.

I don't disagree, but my point was THEY should've explained that to US, WE should NOT be explaining that for THEM.

Quote from: bredon7777 on October 04, 2007, 08:28:47 AM
I don't disagree, but my point was THEY should've explained that to US, WE should NOT be explaining that for THEM.

So, your problem is that they didn't go through and explain every single detail of their powers. Because you know, we soooo want to waste the 20 minutes we have the fortune to get every week in these episodes with full and detailed explanation of powers. Those silly writers, expecting us to actually use our brains instead of hand-spooning us every single detail. My God, next they'll want to specifically hide information like who the new baddie is so as to create suspense!

You've picked out this particular phrase and are declaring it the all-encompasing description of Peter's powers when, as I mentioned in my last few posts and Benton clarified in his, you're only taking the first half of that line ("I have to remember her, the way she made me feel.") Then you get all mad and declare it lazy writing when your conception of what that line meant was not exactly what the writers were attempting to convey.

On a completely different, and less inflammatory, line, I'm a dedicated on-line watcher.  I am really impressed with the new video player NBC is using on their website. It is much smoother and the video and sound quality are VASTLY better than the set-up they had last year!

Quote from: Tomato on October 04, 2007, 11:49:16 AM
You've picked out this particular phrase and are declaring it the all-encompasing description of Peter's powers when, as I mentioned in my last few posts and Benton clarified in his, you're only taking the first half of that line ("I have to remember her, the way she made me feel.") Then you get all mad and declare it lazy writing when your conception of what that line meant was not exactly what the writers were attempting to convey.

You can't ignore the first part of the line, either.  He definitely says that he has to remember something.  Even if it's just the emotional reaction he had to her, he doesn't remember that either.  He doesn't remember anything.  Any way you slice it, that line indicates that no memory = no powers.  You can't just say something is impossible, then do it anyway without an explanation why or an acknowledgment that it should be impossible.  If the writers meant something else by that line, then they did an absolutely horrible job explaining it.

So i just wached the second episode:

1a.[spoiler]Why does everyone assume freaky boy had something to do with Claire's care being stolen?  And even if he stole it, why would that have to have had something to do with his powers?  Couldn't he have just stolen it?  And if Claire did leave the doors unlocked, it really could have been anyone.  And with no stolen car there needs be no freaky powers to move cars and there is absolutely no reason to assume Freaky Boy can do anything other than fly.

Stolen car does give her  chance to have her little speach to HRG and set up cutting off her toe.[/spoiler]

1b.[spoiler]While it's nice to try and justify things like Claire's regenerating hair within the story world, let's not forget that on a practical level there is a real-life flesh and blood actress who has to play the part.  I'm pretty sure that I saw some red polish on that newly regenerated toe.  Not to mention that when normal people regrow skin it will be untanned - and tell me Claire doesn't have a good base tan going 365 days a year.  With all the little willfully inflicted injuries shed look like a vitaligo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vitiligo03.jpg) patient by now.

It's not a very romantic explaination, I know.  But their CGI budget would be astronomical if they had to keep Claire up-to-date with her regenerating.
[/spoiler]

2.[spoiler] I also don't see why Kensei has to have anything more complex than a Claire-like healing factor.  We've seen Claire die before, and stay dead for as long as the offending "weapon" (or tree branch) meant the fatal injury couldn't heal. This was exactly the same thing that happened to Kensei (stick in the brain vs. arrow through the heart).  He dies because his heart is seriously injured and recovers as soon as he regenerates.  "Maybe next time I'll be a hero" could just be hyerbole or a reflection of his integration into a culture that believes in reincarnation.

I also don't buy the argument that if he he knew had a Healing Factor he wouldn't be afraid of injury.  Getting injured hurts!!!  Even Claire, who in all honesty seems to be getting more than a little freaky about pain, still feels it when she gets injured.  And this assumes that Kensei had prior knowledge of his powers, which he may not have had.  We could have seen the first manifestation of his power (Afterall, the eclipse was only one day previously . . . ).  Or he may simply be a big enough coward that he hasn't allowed himself to get into life-threatening danger before.[/spoiler]

3.[spoiler]I also agree that the Peter story line is by far the weakest.  He manifests DL's, Sylar's TK, Niki's, Claire's and "Electro's" powers in very short order and he's going to let some guy holding a box over a fire blackmail him?  LAME!  And the crooks find a half-naked anesiac chained inside a shipping container and they think he had something to do with the missing goods?  DOUBLE LAME!![/spoiler]

4.[spoiler]I think it's pretty obvious that the Hatian did not actually take Suresh's memories.  Otherwise there is no way the last scene with Suresh calling HRG could have occured.  At the very least he might have taken some of Suresh's memories but left him aware that he had.  But I highly doubt it.  It's clear that HRG and Suresh had some kind of plan on how Suresh was to put the Hatian back into contact with HRG if he ever surfaced.  At least I hope this was the case, because the only other explaination for the last scene (Suresh/HRG phone call and Hatian reunion) was that HRG knew before the first episode that the Hatian was ill and that the company would recruit Suresh and then send him to cure the Hatian and then Suresh could tell him the deal with their counter-insurgency and Hatian would want to join then Suresh could put him into contact with HRG - and that would just be LAME![/spoiler]

About Claire's little stunt:

[spoiler]
Why is this so surprising or out of character?  When we first saw here, she was jumping off bridges and purposely hurting herself in other ways just to see what would happen.  She also has show a resistance to pain in numerous cases before, including allowing her hand to get ground up in a garbage disposal.  (although that scene was removed due to a lawsuit and seems, in light of her experiment with the toe, as she regrew several fingers in that scene, no longer to be cannon)
[/spoiler]

Quote from: Conduit on October 04, 2007, 02:42:37 PM

Quote from: Tomato on October 04, 2007, 11:49:16 AM
You've picked out this particular phrase and are declaring it the all-encompasing description of Peter's powers when, as I mentioned in my last few posts and Benton clarified in his, you're only taking the first half of that line ("I have to remember her, the way she made me feel.") Then you get all mad and declare it lazy writing when your conception of what that line meant was not exactly what the writers were attempting to convey.

You can't ignore the first part of the line, either.  He definitely says that he has to remember something.  Even if it's just the emotional reaction he had to her, he doesn't remember that either.  He doesn't remember anything.  Any way you slice it, that line indicates that no memory = no powers.  You can't just say something is impossible, then do it anyway without an explanation why or an acknowledgment that it should be impossible.  If the writers meant something else by that line, then they did an absolutely horrible job explaining it.

Bravo sir, very well said.

As for the phrase in question, given that Peter has the powers I'd say he's the best judge of how they work. If he says he has to remember something (whether its a self imposed mental block or not) then who the heck are YOU to come along and say- "No you don't."?  And if my conception of what the line meant is different from what it was supposed to convey, well- thats a sign of, you guessed it, poor writing.  Good writing is crystal clear.

The writers have done a really poor job explaining the rules behind Peter's powers. Can the fans step in and bridge the writers gaps with creative explanations? Absolutely.  There have been several in this thread alone. Should they have to? Absolutely not.

The writers need to step up and do a better job, and not simply leave it to the fans to fill in their gaps. That's the point that seems to keep getting lost.

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 04, 2007, 05:51:31 PM
About Claire's little stunt:

[spoiler]
Why is this so surprising or out of character?  When we first saw here, she was jumping off bridges and purposely hurting herself in other ways just to see what would happen.  She also has show a resistance to pain in numerous cases before, including allowing her hand to get ground up in a garbage disposal.  (although that scene was removed due to a lawsuit and seems, in light of her experiment with the toe, as she regrew several fingers in that scene, no longer to be cannon)
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
I dont recall anyone saying it was surprising or out of character. I did say it was a step beyond where I thought she would go, but it is on a logical character path.  However, there was a huge argument in the season one thread as to weather or not Claire had some sort of pain resistance, and I pointed out that this would seem to settle the question definitively.

Oh, and I didn't think the disposal actually severed any fingers.  They were extensively mangled, but I don't recall any growing back - or needing to.
[/spoiler]

I recall one or two being down to little nubs.

Nah.  A couple were hanging by little bits of flesh, but all fingers were accounted for.

There's a show currently airing in England called Inside Heroes which is a behind the scenes documentary on the show.  It's available on youtube.  In the second episode, they show the prop used in that scene and all fingers are attached, just extremely mangled.

I am not ignoring other perspectives- I am pointing out that other perspectives are going off into flights of fancy not actually established on the show.  Going solely on what has been established on the show, there are gaps in their presentation of Peter's powers.

Can these gaps be filled by plausible flights of fancy? Sure.  But, from where I sit its a sign of poor writing that they need to be.

No, I don't like being spoon fed. And if later on in the series they present a plausible explanation as to what happened, I'll take everything I said back.  But for now, I resent having to do the writers job and bridge the gaps in their writing.  If I have to do the writing, I should be on the staff :D.

And that is the last I will say about that(other than to say that even with the gaps its still better than 95% of whats on the air currently).

Quote
I am not ignoring other perspectives- I am pointing out that other perspectives are going off into flights of fancy not actually established on the show.  Going solely on what has been established on the show, there are gaps in their presentation of Peter's powers.

No, there isn't.  They really have said very little about them.  Just because Peter thought he needed to remember people to use there powers, or even if that's how he needed to use them, doesn't mean that's how the power actually works.  I mean, Peter used to think he needed to be around someone else.  He went from that to call them up at will in a matter of five weeks.  In fours months, is it that hard to believe that he's used them enough to just call them up at will?  Amnesia doesn't remove the ability to use things learned enough to call them up at will, like walking or talking.

This is not us filling in the gaps, this is just the logical, common place conclusion that people who aren't thinking too hard and criticising too much would come to naturally.

A couple points. And probably most of this has been said or at least touched on before.

On Peter's powers:
[spoiler]First, there is a tendency to assume we can draw more from a character's statement than just "that's what he thinks right now." We don't, as far as we know, have any omniscient characters on the show and normal characters can be wrong and often are, so their pronouncements about how something might work aren't particularly authoritative. And, even if they are correct in sussing a way something works, that's not indicative that it's the only way it can work. Claude had a lot of experience with specials and their powers (not least his own) and his speculation on how Peter could access his powers was incorrect. Meanwhile, Peter isn't a scientist and doesn't have any particular expertise about the nature of his powers. At the time Peter uttered the phrase in question, he was just getting a handle on one way of activating them. Not only isn't there much reason to think his hypothesis is definitive or exclusive, but it's likely that even his understanding might have gotten better as he used the powers more, but that we didn't get to see the thought bubbles when he figured things out.

As for whether this is a flaw in the writing, my tendency is to agree that when I don't understand something on a show that I would like to understand, then the writers aren't explaining it well enough. But, the reality is that not everything on a show like this is going to be explained. Furthermore, there is often an advantage in not having the viewers be sure what's really going on. Not only do the writers avoid painting themselves into a corner, but they can keep some mysteries alive, potentially to use in interesting story arcs later on. And, though some things might never be explained, the show can still be enjoyable. We got a couple seasons of BtVS where it wasn't entirely clear just how much impact Spike's chip was having on him, but I still liked those seasons.

In this case, we got Peter's early speculation on how he could learn to control his powers. Later on he was shown using them with more faculty, though we don't know whether he had changed his underlying technique or not. When we see something now that implies he isn't activating them the same way, it seems a reasonable conclusion is that there is more than one way to do it. We were never told that the original way was the only one, so it's not a case of breaking established cannon.[/spoiler]

On Claire's pain threshold:
[spoiler]It was interesting to me that HRG mentioned that if The Company caught Claire they would test her pan threshold in ways even she couldn't imagine. As far as I can tell, we almost never see Claire react to pain in any significant way. Even this season she has already boiled her hand, broken her ankle, and snipped off her own toe and she never showed anything really beyond looking a little grossed out. For sure, we have no reason to think she lacks sensory perception, but none of what she feels seems to register as pain to her.[/spoiler]

On Kensei's possibly duplicate power:
[spoiler]As for Kensei, he may have exactly Claire's power for all I know, but it seems very unlikely to me that he could have that sort of ability and not know about it. I think that's part of the reason people are speculating that his power only kicks in when he is mortally wounded. Of course, he might just have been covering it up or pretending somehow.[/spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 04, 2007, 07:18:37 PM
On Kensei's possibly duplicate power:
[spoiler]As for Kensei, he may have exactly Claire's power for all I know, but it seems very unlikely to me that he could have that sort of ability and not know about it. I think that's part of the reason people are speculating that his power only kicks in when he is mortally wounded. Of course, he might just have been covering it up or pretending somehow.[/spoiler]

My rebuttal:
[spoiler] I think we could easily justify the "only" a healing factor in a number of ways:

1)We really don't know much about how or when folks first manifest thier powers.  Micah was a kid, Nathan a middle aged adult.  Claire may or may not have been an infant when she first healed (was she injured in the fire the "killed" her mother - we have no hard evidence of it) but I'm betting she was a teenager.  It's possible likely that we all just saw the first manifestation of Kensei's power.

2)Although it has been very poorly defined, eclipses seem significant in triggering bouts of power-dom.  Hiro observes an eclipse shortly after arriving in the past.  Kensei recieves his first serious post-eclipse injury just the next day.  Again, I'm betting we all just saw the first manifestation of Kensei's power.

3)It's possible that Kensei has never had a serious injury before being shot, so that while he may have had the power all along, he never realized it.  This is the least likely, but it's possible.

I strongly suspect that come next week we will find Kensei astonished to be alive and completely bewildered by what happened to him.  As the season progresses he will come to embrace his power and become quite a daredevil hero when he realizes that he is essentially immune from harm.  Thus over the course of season 2 he will become the historical Kensei that Hiro admires.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]1) Maybe. I agree that we don't necessarily know when the characters first exhibit their special abilities. But, we have no idea how long Nathan had been able to fly. His power isn't a passive one like Claire's, so he could have had it for years and never known. Either way, if Kensei's ability was like Claire's, then he would have had it in childhood.

2) I don't know what significance the eclipses are supposed to have. Until we have something solid on them, I am hesitant to draw many conclusions about Kensei's power from that.

3) It's not technically impossible, but it's practically impossible. Living in the 1600s, the idea that one could reach his thirties or forties or whatever Kensei is supposed to be without suffering any injury doesn't work without some real background to explain it. After all, Claire's power doesn't just heal life-threatening or serious injuries, it heals paper cuts and normal bruises as well. I could believe he's never had a serious injury, but I can't believe he's never slipped while cutting food, or gotten scraped from a fall, or anything like that.

BTW, I am perfectly okay with the show featuring characters with duplicate powers. From a science perspective, it's more believable that some of these mutations are similar than that each one would be completely different.

FWIW, I suspect you are right about what we will see next week regarding Kensei. It should be a fun arc.[/spoiler]

Eh, look at the movie unbreakable. Bruce Willis' character never suspected that he was invulnerable until someone pointed it out to him. It could happen that he just didn't know.

IMO, that was the least believable part of Unbreakable, which I liked, by the way. If it had been implied that this was a recent change, I could have bought it, but it was implied that Bruce's character had been that way since he was a kid. Kids get scraped and bruised all the time, not to mention colds and various childhood ailments. There's no way his parents wouldn't have noticed, either. And, there is no way that someone who works out (as he apparently had since high school and college as a football player, where he would have had a trainer or coach tracking his workouts) wouldn't know that he is unusually strong. It didn't really hurt the movie, but it was a weak point.

But, even as far out there as that premise is, it's still more believable that someone just thinks he's been really lucky and never really gotten hurt than that he does get hurt and it heals like magic over the course of just a few seconds and he never notices that.

I still say his power is immortality, not healing per se.

ips, I think we had a similar experiences regards injuries, etc. I was rarely sick and didn't have a trip to the emergency room until I put my hand through a plate glass window when I was 19. That said, however, I did get my share of bruises, cuts, and scrapes from playing, running, sports, experimenting with dad's power tools, etc. I can't see how anyone who isn't completely sedentary avoids all injury. And that's the premise of the movie; he's never had a scrape, a sniffle, anything. I remember thinking once that I had gone over two years without a cold/flu whatever, but I knew that it was unusual and it would have been phenomenal if I had never had one in my life.

As to Heroes, I don't know what's up with Kensei. I just think it unlikely that someone traveling the world in the sixteen hundreds (and apparently drunk on less-than-rare occasion) is going to have completely avoided all injury. (Also, keep in mind that the world wasn't designed for safety like it is today, with lots of padding and smoothly rounded corners.) Like I said, it's not physically impossible, but it isn't practically possible unless he was leading a very unusual existence, deserving of some background story. I have been leaning toward the theory that he only heals injuries that would (or maybe that do) kill him. I think we are on the same page with that.

Now Claire is a different story. She is shown as almost preternaturally clumsy. If she were that bad in real life, they would know her on sight at the emergency room. :lol: Maybe he kept it secret from Mrs. Bennet (possibly with Haitian help), but I would be shocked if HRG didn't know about Claire's ability a while before she started jumping off of scaffolding towers.

Going back to the first episodes of the first season, it is clear that Claire didn't come into her power until essentially the point where the series started as she's still very much into the freak-out and experimenting mode.  I also suspect that her dad didn't know what she could do until then because he really didn't seem too nervous about her being discovered by the Company until the series was underway.

This timing holds true for most of the other characters.  We see DL's first escape.  Ted learns about his powers when he "kills" his wife (but not his parents when growing up? Unlikely.).  Likewise we witness Parkman and Hiro's first manifestations of their powers.  Isaac reacts as if being able to paint the future is something that just started happening.  All of these character are adults when their powers manifest.

Quote from: stumpy on October 05, 2007, 01:36:19 PM
As to Heroes, I don't know what's up with Kensei. I just think it unlikely that someone traveling the world in the sixteen hundreds (and apparently drunk on less-than-rare occasion) is going to have completely avoided all injury. (Also, keep in mind that the world wasn't designed for safety like it is today, with lots of padding and smoothly rounded corners.) Like I said, it's not physically impossible, but it isn't practically possible unless he was leading a very unusual existence, deserving of some background story. I have been leaning toward the theory that he only heals injuries that would (or maybe that do) kill him. I think we are on the same page with that.

Now Claire is a different story. She is shown as almost preternaturally clumsy. If she were that bad in real life, they would know her on sight at the emergency room. :lol: Maybe he kept it secret from Mrs. Bennet (possibly with Haitian help), but I would be shocked if HRG didn't know about Claire's ability a while before she started jumping off of scaffolding towers.

In Fallout, Mr. Bennet says to Claire, "I knew before you knew, before you made those tapes with Zach."  So, yeah, he knew about it well before then.

Adding to the Kensei speculation, remember that he was trained in combat, including how to wield a sword.  He'd have to have gotten banged up a few times during that.  That's not to mention that actual fighting he did.  Even if he used a lot of dirty tricks, he can't have never been shot at or attacked with a sword.

Quote from: Uncle Yuan on October 05, 2007, 01:52:54 PM
Going back to the first episodes of the first season, it is clear that Claire didn't come into her power until essentially the point where the series started as she's still very much into the freak-out and experimenting mode.  I also suspect that her dad didn't know what she could do until then because he really didn't seem too nervous about her being discovered by the Company until the series was underway.

This timing holds true for most of the other characters.  We see DL's first escape.  Ted learns about his powers when he "kills" his wife (but not his parents when growing up? Unlikely.).  Likewise we witness Parkman and Hiro's first manifestations of their powers.  Isaac reacts as if being able to paint the future is something that just started happening.  All of these character are adults when their powers manifest.

According to Six Months Ago, Claire started healing fast six months ago (though at first it only heals a really bad wound completely in about a day).  Nathan also first flew back then, Peter had a precognitive dream, and Sylar took his first power, though due to the subtle nature of his ability it could have been active for a while without him noticing.  See above for when Bennet knew about Claire's power.

I agree that most of the characters didn't first learn about their powers until adulthood (often well into adulthood). The exceptions being Micah, Molly, and Claire. And I definitely agree that it would make more sense if Claire just got her powers shortly before we saw her, which may be the case.

But, I'll mention again that, for the characters with active powers, those where you have to try and do something (or be surprised or goaded into doing something), they could have had their powers for a long time and just never tried to use them. I'm not saying that they did, just that we can't really say one way or the other for most of them that they didn't have their powers until we first saw them use their powers.

[D'oh! Conduit beat me to the punch.  :cool:]

Quote from: ips on October 05, 2007, 02:34:18 PM
in the story where they introduce claire's bio-mom they all but say claire survived the fire as a baby because of her healing powers. mr bennet knew from then or strongly suspected. he was involved with the company from around the same time and requested to take care of the baby iirc. if it showed signs of abilities then he was supposed to report it and instead he hid it.

They only speculate that, and it's only from people who don't know what really happened.  According to the online comic, Claire survived the fire because Mr. Bennet ran into the apartment and carried her out.  She never needed to regenerate.  Indeed, Mrs. Bennet's line from episode 6 where she said that Claire had a cough as a baby may indicate that the smoke inhalation had a lasting effect.

Quote from: ips on October 05, 2007, 02:46:35 PM
ok ... WE only speculate that. THEY suggest/infer it from the episode writing itself.

Until the online comic is somehow determined to be canon it should not be taken as such. And I won't personally since I know it'll never be considered canon since many people don't bother to extend their episodes by seeking out the comic online and limit their enjoyment to the tv episodes themselves.

In the commentary for Company Man, they say that they had originally wanted to put the scene where Mr. Bennet rescues an infant Claire in the episode itself, but they ended up not filming it and just putting it in the online comic.  So I imagine that one, at least, rates pretty high on the canon scale.

As for the question of how canon the comics in general are, over the summer Heroes Wiki interviewed several comic book artists and writers.  They talk a little about the interaction with the writers of the show.  You can read them here (http://heroeswiki.com/Interviews)

Watching the show, I thought they were implying same thing (that Claire survived the fire as an eighteen-month-old because of her powers), though it's ambiguous, since they don't show the details on camera. FWIW, however, the comic definitely shows HRG snatching her out of harms way before she was burned.

[spoiler]Either way, if Kensei had the same ability since sometime in his teens, I think he would have known about it by the time Hiro meets him. Of course, I guess I have no idea how old he is supposed to be then. He looks thirties to me, but I am at least guessing he is well out of his teens to be traveling the world and to have trained as a fighter.

BTW, just from the structure of the show standpoint, I think it would be more interesting if his power - whatever the actual details of it - somehow keeps him alive until the present day. It seems more likely to me, from a storytelling standpoint, that they would have invested all this air time developing this 1600s arc if the Kensei character has a role to play once Hiro ends up back with the other present-day specials.

(I guess they could get a similar effect just by having Hiro bring him forward in time when he comes back - say hello to another continuity nightmare! - but I think it's more interesting if he is effectively immortal. Plus, I don't want to have to suffer through a man-from-the-past, fish-out-of-water story arc.)[/spoiler]


[D'oh! Again. I have to learn to type faster! :)]

OK, boys, typing is cheap.  Time to put your money where your keyboards are!

*slaps a v-buck on the desk* I got a dollar right here that says Kensei just manifested his power for the first time!

*slaps a second v-buck down next to it* And I got a second that his power is a "straight forward" healing factor!

I would say Kensei's power isn't a "straight forward" healing factor.  The reason is simply because he hides and takes out his enemies from a distance instead of just fighting them himself.  The only reason I'd see him doing that is to keep people from knowing that he has that type of power.  If a samurai cuts him and then watches him heal, the samurai's going to know something...at least for as long as he lives.  But Kensei doesn't seem like the type to care if people knows.  He comes off as a guy who, knowing he had that power, would use it and let everyone know.  That said, I definitely think his power is healing mortal wounds...

and...

I definitely think that wasn't his first time doing it.  I'd guess that he'd done it once before.  The way I'd see it, he probably got "killed" at some point, came back to life wondering what happened, thinking it was a miracle or whatever (perhaps during his time in England, leading to a possible exile and thus explaining his trip to Japan?).  The reason he wouldn't fight is that this had only happened to him once and he seems cowardly enough to not want to test it.  Ask yourself, if you suspect you might have the power to heal mortal wounds because it may have happened to you once, is that the kind of thing you want to go out and test?  I know I certainly wouldn't.  He may simply think it was a one-time thing, or maybe he thinks it was a dream.  He wouldn't know whether he'll always do it or if the next time he's mortally wounded it won't.

Quote from: Uncle Yuan on October 05, 2007, 01:52:54 PM
Going back to the first episodes of the first season, it is clear that Claire didn't come into her power until essentially the point where the series started as she's still very much into the freak-out and experimenting mode.  I also suspect that her dad didn't know what she could do until then because he really didn't seem too nervous about her being discovered by the Company until the series was underway.

This timing holds true for most of the other characters.  We see DL's first escape.  Ted learns about his powers when he "kills" his wife (but not his parents when growing up? Unlikely.).  Likewise we witness Parkman and Hiro's first manifestations of their powers.  Isaac reacts as if being able to paint the future is something that just started happening.  All of these character are adults when their powers manifest.

Actually, that brings up something I've always wondered about Hiro.  We see him USE his powers for the first time (first, when he makes the clock run backwards, then when he teleports into the ladies room) but even at that time he is rock solid, 100% certain that he HAS the ability.

Doesn't anyone else wonder what caused him to think he had the ability in the first place?  Did he just wake up one morning and go- "Hey! I can bend the space/time continum" and start staring at clocks, or what?

Enquiring minds wanna know!

Ha. As someone who has spend some mind-numbing time in a cubicle, I would venture that staring at the clock and wishing you could change it may be a pretty common hobby.  :mrgreen: Of course, most of my efforts were trying to move it forward faster, but anything would have been a relief. (http://home.graffiti.net/stumpyanker:graffiti.net/emoticons/yawn.gif)

Kind of reminds me of the movie Cashback (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460740/), which I enjoyed.  ^_^

You realize there's only one way to settle this once and for all. . .

Keep watching! :thumbup:

And keep those cards and letters!

Quote

Actually, that brings up something I've always wondered about Hiro.  We see him USE his powers for the first time (first, when he makes the clock run backwards, then when he teleports into the ladies room) but even at that time he is rock solid, 100% certain that he HAS the ability.

Doesn't anyone else wonder what caused him to think he had the ability in the first place?  Did he just wake up one morning and go- "Hey! I can bend the space/time continum" and start staring at clocks, or what?

Enquiring minds wanna know!

I assumed that he somehow accidently triggered his powers at some point prior to Episode 1.  However, the first episode was the first time that he consciously caused it to happen.

Hiro mentions that the subway train was 20 seconds late that morning, and blames it on his powers.  Apparently, being a Japanese train it was never late.  I doubt he'd conclude that without other evidence that he could bend the space time continuum, though.

Quote from: ips on October 05, 2007, 04:34:28 PM

Quote from: Adamence on October 05, 2007, 04:12:44 PM
The reason is simply because he hides and takes out his enemies from a distance instead of just fighting them himself.  The only reason I'd see him doing that is to keep people from knowing that he has that type of power. 

how about the obvious reason? he hides and uses other people as decoys so if anyone gets killed it's the decoy. he doesn't know he can't be killed yet.

That was my point, but I guess it didn't come across quite how I'd hoped.  If he knew he had the power, he wouldn't hide, so I take hiding as being evidence he doesn't know he has the power.

Quote from: Adamence on October 06, 2007, 06:16:38 PM

Quote from: ips on October 05, 2007, 04:34:28 PM

Quote from: Adamence on October 05, 2007, 04:12:44 PM
The reason is simply because he hides and takes out his enemies from a distance instead of just fighting them himself.  The only reason I'd see him doing that is to keep people from knowing that he has that type of power. 

how about the obvious reason? he hides and uses other people as decoys so if anyone gets killed it's the decoy. he doesn't know he can't be killed yet.

That was my point, but I guess it didn't come across quite how I'd hoped.  If he knew he had the power, he wouldn't hide, so I take hiding as being evidence he doesn't know he has the power.

Alternatively, maybe his powers aren't completely like Claire's and he actually feels pain or he heals from major injuries (like sword attacks) at a slower rate than she would.

His shocked reaction, plus the trailers showing Hiro having to explain to him that he has an ability, tells me that this is the first time it has manifested.  I see no reason to read anything more into it than that.

Re: Peter

as of right now, there cannot BE an explaination, because he doesn't remember that he can't. Right now, it's a reflex, based on emotions and muscle reflexes. These emotions are not particularly connected to a specific person, necessarily. But he didn't heal from his beating until a caring female presence came along.

Once he regains his memory (maybe the Haitian will restore it) he'll question how he was able, and at that point, explainations will be given. Also, it occurs to me that he should have the Haitian's powers too.

Quote from: Protomorph on October 07, 2007, 11:01:34 AM
Once he regains his memory (maybe the Haitian will restore it) he'll question how he was able, and at that point, explainations will be given.

The Haitian can't restore memories.  He said as much in Godsend, and in one of the online comics he tries to do it and fails.  Of course, this is only of memories that he himself has removed, so I suppose it might work differently for different kinds of amnesia.

When did Peter encounter the Hatian?  I don't recall.

Quote from: Uncle Yuan on October 07, 2007, 11:18:04 AM
When did Peter encounter the Hatian?  I don't recall.

If he did, it was in the interveining 4 months that came between the seasons. The first time since the explosion we see him, he is without memory, wearing the Hatian's necklace. Again, it's not somehting that has been explained in the show yet, but there are clues.

But, they have met before, in season 1, when Haitian and HRG showed up to tazer Peter and Claude. Don't know if there was enough proximity to get the power (though DL was farther away than that in the season 1 finale and he got his ability (as demonstrated in his escape from the chair)) or even if the power would need to be active at the time to be absorbed?


Perhaps, Peter sought out the Hatian to wipe his memory in the hopes that if he couldn't remember Ted, he couldn't explode again. Doesn't seem to be particularly effective, if that's the case, as he's using other powers.




RE: Maya and her Bro

Who else sees her power being that which kills the Big Bad. What would be the effect of a single person having both the power to cause and cure that ebola-esque power (ala Peter)?

If Peter met the Haitian in the intervening 4 months, wouldn't the Haitian suppress Peter's powers and prevent him from absorbing his power?  We know from Five Years Gone that the Haitian's power suppression work on Peter, and have quite a range (has to be a few hundred feet if it extended across the entire floor).  Even if that wasn't an issue, its very nature might make it incompatible with Peter's abilities (ie it might suppress his own power whenever he tried to activate it).

Quote from: Protomorph on October 07, 2007, 02:31:21 PM
RE: Maya and her Bro

Who else sees her power being that which kills the Big Bad. What would be the effect of a single person having both the power to cause and cure that ebola-esque power (ala Peter)?

According to the writers, Peter can only use one power at a time, so it's a question of whether he'll be able to deactivate Maya's power, then activate Alejandro's to repair the damage he's done.  Based on his experience with Ted's power, I wouldn't be too confident in his ability to do that.

Another installment of the weekly interview series Behind the Eclipse has been released here (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12055).  Some spoilers.  My comments are below.

[spoiler]
I'm really disappointed in the writers.  From some of their answers, they sound like they haven't thought ahead at all.  Concerning Peter using his powers despite his amnesia, they simply say "Peter has learned and will continue to learn that's it's more about his heart than his memory."  Except he hasn't learned that.  He specifically said he needed to remember the person and we were never shown anything that indicated he might have been wrong.

Later, they were asked about whether they were concerned about Peter getting too powerful.  They said that they were, but they have no plan to deal with it and are simply having fun with the challenge that it presents to write.

That wouldn't be that bad, but they then said "we can just dig up whatever the heck gave him that scar in the future," indicating that they have no idea how he got that scar. :banghead:  That's right, not only did they not know how it happened when they introduced it, but now, in the next season, nearly 20 episodes later (much more than that as far as the writers are concerned), they still haven't come up with anything to explain it.  And they don't have any plans to unless they happen to come up with a storyline they think might benefit from tying into that.
[/spoiler]

That is kind of depressing that the writers aren't taking the time to really plan ahead.  I mean, it's good to stay flexible, but they should at least have some idea where all this is going.

Yeah, I just read the whole thing and was equally disappointed.  I've come to expect more of the writers than that.

I also am getting tired of their snarky attitude, and was outraged at the ignorance of the writers at the one question they asked.

Personally, I will take this as another lesson that the writers for shows don't necessarily plan ahead very much. Part of that is understandable for a show they couldn't be sure would be renewed when they started up with it.

But, I take as a consequence that we can expect them to use any loophole they can find when trying to reconcile issues that come up regarding the use or portrayal of the characters' powers. In other words, if we are going to try to pin down how this or that power works, we have to be careful about what we conclude from what's been shown and recognize that, even when some theory might explain how something works, it still might not be the only way and they might retroactively choose whichever way gives them more wiggle room.

BTW, just to be fair, there are only a handful of writers and many thousands of relatively "hardcore fans" and many of us are paying closer attention to what happens on screen than the writers. And we're often just smarter (that's not an insult to the writers, just a consequence of our larger numbers). A group like FR is sort of a writer's nightmare because we are bright; we are sort of experts in the field (as comic book fans); and we are nit-pickers.  :rolleyes: To me - and I think to most of us here - it's important to start out with a consistent concept of what's going on under the hood with the special abilities and to stick to that when writing the stories. But, it's also true that they need to get twenty-odd episodes written and filmed every season, so they aren't going to be able to catch every detail and it's not really worth their time to "fan-proof" every episode.

Wow..that was just..really, really bad. Very dissapointing.  :(

So, new episode just aired, and I've got to say that I'm a little disappointed...
[spoiler]
...first that Candice is dispatched so quickly after being reintroduced, and then that Sylar is apparently being set up to be the same old boogy-man he was last season.  If they're aren't going to do anything new with the character, he should have just died at the end of last season.  At least he had help to survive his stab wound, it wasn't just a case of villain super-toughness.  I also fail to see how a stab wound would make him lose his acquired powers, that just seems like a lazy way to hit the reset button on the character.

Also bothering me: Nikki wanting to be "cured," and trying to get a "normal" life for her son.  It's just a tired motivation/plot idea in this genre.  Claire got over the whole creep-factor of flyboy peeping on her pretty quickly as well.  Plague-girl and Cure-boy are boring me, and Peter refusing to look in his I.D. box was silly.  His use of the force, plus the fact that they realized a regenerative character couldn't keep a tattoo did make me smile though, and we've seen him use two powers at once as of now - healing & TK.
[/spoiler]

Why?  I thought the episode was pretty good.

Some notes

[spoiler]
I think this episode proves that Takensi's power is regeneration and that this is the first time it ever manifests.  Poor Hiro.  This can't end well.

Speaking of not ending well, poor HRG.

So why does Niki want to ditch super strength?  That's a pretty handy ability, and one that's not so hard to hide.

Candace/Michelle must be pretty stupid.  What else did she expect Sylar to do?  On the other hand, the Company's choice of recovery site seems to show that they are expecting something like that.  I'm wondering if another person who can cancel out powers, and do it selectively, is around.  That would explain why he can't access his old powers, or the new one.

So what's the Irish girl's power, I wonder.

D.L.'s dead.  I was sort of expecting that.  They left him critically injured, so it's not a huge shock.
[/spoiler]

EDIT:  I'll point out I started this post two posts ago.

[spoiler]

Quote from: Talavar on October 08, 2007, 07:12:39 PM
His use of the force, plus the fact that they realized a regenerative character couldn't keep a tattoo did make me smile though, and we've seen him use two powers at once as of now - healing & TK.

Are you sure about that?  It looked to me as if the actual bullet wound didn't heal much at all when the camera was on it, aside from the bullet falling out.  Couldn't he have done most of the healing while he was down on the ground, only to have the bullet slide out when he stood up?
[/spoiler]

Quote from: Conduit on October 08, 2007, 07:17:23 PM
[spoiler]

Quote from: Talavar on October 08, 2007, 07:12:39 PM
His use of the force, plus the fact that they realized a regenerative character couldn't keep a tattoo did make me smile though, and we've seen him use two powers at once as of now - healing & TK.

Are you sure about that?  It looked to me as if the actual bullet wound didn't heal much at all when the camera was on it, aside from the bullet falling out.  Couldn't he have done most of the healing while he was down on the ground, only to have the bullet slide out when he stood up?
[/spoiler]

It looked to me like...
[spoiler]
he held the shooter (from Enterprise, by the by, another Star Trek actor) up against the wall even before standing, stood, and then the bullet wounds continued healing, all while still holding the shooter pinned against the wall & choking him.  Seems simultaneous to me.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: Talavar on October 08, 2007, 07:24:21 PM
he held the shooter (from Enterprise, by the by, another Star Trek actor) up against the wall even before standing, stood, and then the bullet wounds continued healing, all while still holding the shooter pinned against the wall & choking him.  Seems simultaneous to me.

I was watching that pretty closely, and I'm pretty sure the bullet hole itself didn't change much at all.  The bullet fell out, but again, that could just be gravity (and/or his breathing causing his lungs to expand, pushing it out).  The fact that he was able to get up means that he had already healed a good amount by that point.
[/spoiler]

Let us count the ways in which everyone is stupid:

Peter:
[spoiler]
Not opening the box is stupid.  I understand that hot Irish sister is kissing him, which would delay me from opening the box too - for about an hour. Im wondering though if Peter does absorb a little bit of personality as well as powers- he looked very Sylaresque while telekntically choking goon.[/spoiler]

Mohinder:
[spoiler]
Making a phone call to your secret ally in a lab that is almost certainly bugged is stupid Parkman was right- you are most certainly no 007.
[/spoiler]

Candace/Michelle[spoiler]:
Cute explanation of why shes a different actress(as Missy Whatshername is now on Reaper). However, if you work for the Company you know what Sylar is. To think he'd do anything other than kill your butt once he knew you had a power is stupid
[/spoiler]

The Company:
[spoiler] Thinking isolation and not armed guard would be enough to subdue Sylar. Senind in Candace/Michelle as nursemaid is stupid [/spoiler]

West:
[spoiler]
Continual use of your power in broad daylight is stupid.
[/spoiler]

The special effects Department:
[spoiler]
If Sylar cant access his powers, playing the ticking sound effect that indicates he's accessing them is stupid.[/spoiler]

Maya/Alejandro
[spoiler]
They continue to be stupid.  And boring. [/spoiler]

Just a huge dissappointment of an episode.

Well, I'm still loving this show, although I see signs here of things I might not like.

[spoiler]I'm pretty sure we saw him use two powers at once Conduit, I mean, the whole bullet sliding out was pretty much the same visual as X-Men 2.

I'm starting to agree with some of you about the two Mexican kids, I feel like their story just isn't as interesting to me.  I wish they would just get to the US and move their story forward.  Still, her actually killing the police is pretty dark, and I feel like we may get something interesting out of that.

On a similar note, I'm rather surprised that none of y'all picked up the (possible) significance of Peter's tattoo.  I felt sure that I wouldn't be the first one to voice this, but:  Who had a similar tattoo that appeared and disappeared with the wearer's mood?  Nikki/Jessica, who's powers Peter now has.  In this episode we saw him go from aggressive, almost evil to his usual self.  I think we may be seeing the begining of his having taken on her affliction as WELL as her powers.  I have to say, I don't think I'm going to like that.  Peter's my second favorite character, and I really don't want to see him go evil and start killing people.  Ohh, and I agree that him not opening the box is ridiculously stupid.  If they didn't want to have him figure out who he is yet, it could have just been destroyed in the fight.

I don't know how you can NOT like Hiro, I absolutely love the little guy, and his story interests me more than just about any of the others.  Who else was REALLY disappointed that we didn't get to see Kenzi fight at all?

Candice must be REALLY stupid....that's just retarded, to let a guy who is a freakin' serial killer get that close to you when you could easily make him think you're on the other side of the room.....just stupid.

D.L. being dead...I don't know, here's another thing that doesn't necessarily follow from the last season, but it makes a lot more sense than Parkman's divorce.  He looked like he was going to pull through in the finale, but I can live with this.  I'm curious what they'll have Nikki do.

Ohh, and I'll be really, really sad if HRG gets it.  My wife and I have both come to really like him...as a matter of fact, he and Peter are probably tied for number two in my favorite characters.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: BentonGrey on October 08, 2007, 07:46:54 PMI'm pretty sure we saw him use two powers at once Conduit, I mean, the whole bullet sliding out was pretty much the same visual as X-Men 2.

Not exactly.  In X-Men 2, the wound healed around the bullet, then the bullet fell out, then the wound disappeared.  This time, I'm pretty sure that the hole remained the same before and after the bullets fell out.
[/spoiler]

Well, either way, I feel pretty confident that you're reading too much into it.  I feel like there was a clear indication that he was using both powers at once....but I can't say that I know it beyond any shadow of a doubt.

What makes me really, really reluctant to say that is that the writers were pretty definitive about him only being able to use one power at a time in a Behind the Eclipse a few months ago.  But, then, maybe I shouldn't be too confident in them given the impression I got from their most recent interview.  I'd just like to think that, no matter how little they plan ahead, when they themselves say something in an interview, they mean it.

Well, don't forget, they did say that his understanding of his powers is evolving...I think that leaves the door open, don't you?  Personally, it doesn't bother me that much, characters are always learning more about their powers.

Somebody asked about Peter being unable to fly off on its own, whether it was for dramatic effect or because he only has access to one power at a time.  They responded "It's the latter."  Doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room.  But I guess they could have just made a mistake this time.

Yeah, well, that doesn't necessarily mean it always will be, you know?  There's always room for evolution.

[spoiler]Actually, I agree with Conduit here, at least to a point. If he'd had full access to Clair's healing, those bullets would have been out by the time he got up. Plus, there's a decent sized gap before the guy goes up into the air, which would explain why he didn't die. Rapidly switching maybe, but we didn't see enough to say he's doing more then one at once.

I'm also starting to be won over into the "writers need to step up a notch" crowd. I don't think playing it by ear is nescessarily bad for a story, because I've seen that kind of thing pulled off.  However, I get the feeling there's sort of a lack of effort here, like they're trying to run this show off the fan base it accumulated last season.

Grah, that whole thing with Sylar was stupid. I like the character, but another season of him doesn't appeal to me... But on an interesting note, does anyne else get the impression that he has the virus?[/spoiler]

Quote from: Tomato on October 08, 2007, 08:38:35 PM
[spoiler]But on an interesting note, does anyne else get the impression that he has the virus?[/spoiler]

If he had the virus, he couldn't use his own power, but he did.

Well, it's a real bummer that no one seems to be enjoying this season so far. I think they're off to a pretty good start, for the most part, but it seems I'm the vast minority.

[spoiler]
I think Peter can only use each power at its full capacity one at a time. His TK was at maybe 75%, while the healing was 25%. Something like that. Remember- he did use invisibility AND TK on the roof while fighting Claude once. Didn't do it well- in fact, if I recall, he barely stopped the staff from hitting him- but he did it.

Peter's reservations about his identity are unfounded, but c'mon, he's bound to figure it out eventually.

Why do you think Candice was working for The Company this time? She could have been an agent for anyone at this point. Heck, Ando could've been talking to her on the phone in that scene. And, if you notice, she's really only about 14 years old- not exactily the perfect age for making good, solid decisions.

I do agree the Latin Wonder Twins are the weak link this season. That's all I'll say about that.

Hiro's story is great fun, but if he stays there all season, it's gonna get old. I can't wait to see him meet Kensai in the present, though.

I bet Nikki has the disease, I bet DL died of it. Old Lady Hawkins being a Super? More than likely. One of the 12? I dunno.

Bob (or Midas, as I like to call him) is more than likely one of the 12. Call it a hunch, I guess.

West kills HRG. Placing bets right here. I'm putting 20 Skittles on it. Who's in?

Matt's divorce was probably for his wife and kid's safety. That would make sense... well, more sense than it does now.

Mohindar = dummy? Where have I heard that one before...?
[/spoiler]

I think that covers them. I know it's hard to ignore the blatent plot holes, but this show is not specifically for the hardcore nerds, it's for everyone. That's why I'm trying to watch i like someone who doesn't read comics. It's the only way to enjoy the show, at least for me.

(Everyone can tell me I'm wrong now. [That's a joke! :thumbup:])

Quote from: BentonGrey on October 08, 2007, 07:46:54 PM
Well, I'm still loving this show, although I see signs here of things I might not like.

[spoiler]I'm pretty sure we saw him use two powers at once Conduit, I mean, the whole bullet sliding out was pretty much the same visual as X-Men 2.

I'm starting to agree with some of you about the two Mexican kids, I feel like their story just isn't as interesting to me.  I wish they would just get to the US and move their story forward.  Still, her actually killing the police is pretty dark, and I feel like we may get something interesting out of that.

On a similar note, I'm rather surprised that none of y'all picked up the (possible) significance of Peter's tattoo.  I felt sure that I wouldn't be the first one to voice this, but:  Who had a similar tattoo that appeared and disappeared with the wearer's mood?  Nikki/Jessica, who's powers Peter now has.  In this episode we saw him go from aggressive, almost evil to his usual self.  I think we may be seeing the begining of his having taken on her affliction as WELL as her powers.  I have to say, I don't think I'm going to like that.  Peter's my second favorite character, and I really don't want to see him go evil and start killing people.  Ohh, and I agree that him not opening the box is ridiculously stupid.  If they didn't want to have him figure out who he is yet, it could have just been destroyed in the fight.

I don't know how you can NOT like Hiro, I absolutely love the little guy, and his story interests me more than just about any of the others.  Who else was REALLY disappointed that we didn't get to see Kenzi fight at all?

Candice must be REALLY stupid....that's just retarded, to let a guy who is a freakin' serial killer get that close to you when you could easily make him think you're on the other side of the room.....just stupid.

D.L. being dead...I don't know, here's another thing that doesn't necessarily follow from the last season, but it makes a lot more sense than Parkman's divorce.  He looked like he was going to pull through in the finale, but I can live with this.  I'm curious what they'll have Nikki do.

Ohh, and I'll be really, really sad if HRG gets it.  My wife and I have both come to really like him...as a matter of fact, he and Peter are probably tied for number two in my favorite characters.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
I just don't think Peter's tattoo disappears or reappears with his mood, mainly because it disappeared right after he got it.  A tattoo is essentially a dyed scar - someone who regenerates like he and Claire couldn't keep a tattoo for very long.  That it faded to the symbol before disappearing is just dramatic effect to my mind.  I also still don't think Nikki's power and split personality were connected, as both sides of her personality could access the power.  I agree that Peter's TK seemed to be fuelled by a Sylar-esque rage when he was crushing the guy, but that didn't seem apparent when he moved the armoured car.
[/spoiler]

I'm still liking this season, I'm just having reservations, particularly about this episode.

As disappointed as people seem, I thought this episode was no better or worse than the last couple, although I am now a little more worried that we are slipping into mid-season holding pattern again.

[spoiler]Regarding Peter healing-while-TKing: I just rewatched the scene: Peter absolutely, definitely healed while he TK held the thug up against the wall. We might speculate that he is multiplexing his powers, but if it happens faster than the eye can see, it's still two at once.  And that doesn't bother me. It's perfectly believable that people gain the ability to do more than one thing at once after a while. This may not be the right time for him to be showing greater mastery, but even that is arguable.

As for what the writers say at these spoiler sessions: who cares? Nothing said there is cannon. Ultimately, what appears on screen (and maybe the comics, if NBC is committing to them) is what we have to go on. That's it.

I agree that Peter not opening the box seemed contrived. It's another excuse to drag out that arc. The writers of this show seem to like the template of spending half or more of the season having the characters scattered around and doing unconnected things before some coherent plot line ties them together. I guess that's okay and it was fine for the first season when none of them had any reason to know one another. Now, I am less inclined to be patient with it. If they don't have a season's worth of plot to do, hire some more writers.

Am I the only one who wouldn't be surprised that Sylar killing Candace was all an illusion? Candace never seemed that stupid to me, and she knew who Sylar was last season and what he was up to, so she had no reason to let her gaurd down.

It's even possible that Candace is still working for The Company and they wanted him to do his dirty dead with someone to observe how he works and possibly better understand how the specials' powers work. For whatever reason, my immediate suspicion was that she's working for the big bad who haunts Molly's dreams.

Meanwhile, it wouldn't be any terribly unrealistic surprise if Sylar lost his powers when he was out. Apparently he's been in a coma or sedated or something since the end of last season. He's lucky he can even walk and talk.

While it's certainly possible, I don't thinks we've been given much on which to conclude that anyone not explicitly shown to have "the disease" actually has it. We don't know that Sylar has it, we don't have any reason to believe DL had it, or that Nikki has it. There are other (and, IMO, more straightforward) explanations of what happened to each of them.

It seems like whoever wrote the Herrera brother/sister storyline fell asleep on the Ctrl-P key. How many more iterations of

• They arrive somewhere
• They make some arrangement or do something to move closer to los E.U.
• They get separated
• She kills/sickens people
• He fixes her and maybe her victims
• They hustle off to start north again
• Goto 1.

do we need to see? None. We get it already: she makes people sick and he makes her and them better. At this rate, they'll still be in Tijuana at the season break. For all I care, they could have started out in Montreal and been at Mohinder's office by the end of the first episode. In fact, for all the interest that storyline has produced so far, they can drop in entirely and I won't miss it. I hope the writers turn things around, but at this point I could write it off as a sunk cost.

I am interested in what happens with the Ohura storyline, although last season's Nikki/Micah/DL arc never really paid off. I am with everyone else in guessing she would be a good part of the nine.

I liked Hiro's storyline in 1671, but it's about time to stick a fork in it. Get him back into the main continuity and then start telling this season's story already. I mean, I know they've introduced the specials-are-getting-sick and the -taking-down-The-Company arcs, but I don't want to get to mid-season and find we're only one step beyond that.

We had this same problem last season where it seemed like plot and character development were stalled out for needless filler.[/spoiler]

Also, I am totally agreeing that this I-want-to-be-cured-of-my-cool-superpowers schtick is lame and unrealistic (at least for the characters whose powers are useful and don't go off randomly and kill people).

BTW, some advice for HRG: Get some new frames and polycarbonate lenses! If I were him, I would seriously start thinking about wearing a full-face-mask motorcycle helmet. ;-p

Anyway, I was satisfied with the episode, generally. Not great but not exactly bad either.

Also, regarding Claire and West:

[spoiler]I think I can believe that Claire isn't too freaked about what West was doing wrong when he saw her doing her little toe routine. For one thing, she was (and should have been) more worried that she had been doing something so stupid than that he had seen her. Secondly, he pays a lot of attention to her when she is new at school and feels restricted in her ability to go out and make new friends. So basically, he is giving her the company she is probably missing which counts for a lot with a teenage girl. Not to mention the fact that his basic theme with her is that she is special. People have gotten a lot farther using that line...

BTW, I agree with West that Claire is a bad liar. She should have said she was practicing a trick with a fake rubber toe to gross out her mom or brother or to use at a Halloween party or something. She had all night to think of something. Yeesh.

As little sympathy as I have for West so far, I was with him when he interrupted Claire's hyperdramatic "Yeah, I am different and you can tell the world if you want because I am tired of pretending to be something I'm not!" speech by telling her to shut up. For pete's sake, Claire, get over yourself. I know that West doesn't know it, but I was rolling my eyes during her little monologue thinking how she spent most of last season bemoaning the fact that she wasn't normal.

And, yeah, West is not only a confirmed bonehead for flying around L.A. in broad daylight, but he's also a twit for what he said in class. Since he is one of the (4400?) people The Company has abducted, you'd think he would have developed some sense of discretion.

BTW, there was a tight shot of Claire in that beach scene where West talks about HRG. She has a helix earring in her right ear. Must be a pain re-piercing that every type she changes it.  And, she has what appear to be piercing holes in the lobes of both ears, though they have no earrings in them. Oops.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 09, 2007, 12:54:59 AM
Also, regarding Claire and West:

[spoiler]BTW, there was a tight shot of Claire in that beach scene where West talks about HRG. She has a helix earring in her right ear. Must be a pain re-piercing that every type she changes it.  And, she has what appear to be piercing holes in the lobes of both ears, though they have no earrings in them. Oops.
[/spoiler]

Hey... 1st time chiming in on this one.  I must really say... some of yall dig a bit too deep searching for explanations... rather than going most times with the most obvious.
[spoiler]
Peter:I think a few peeps are simply taking to literally everything presented or said about him as being etched in stone.  Even if writers say something themselves... they will often say things... because at that point... thats how it stood or to set you up .. and surprise you later.  What would be the point of telling all the secrets... then leaving no room for suspense and boxing themselves into a continuity box...?   Considering the nature of his powers.. isn't it more interesting to have them evolve rather than just stay a certain way... and thats it.  Peter's powers more so than any other character except maybe Skylar defines him as a charcater.  No growth in powers... no growth in Peter.
Also... after re-watching the gunshot/ TK scene a few times over now... he most certainly was healing while simultaneously using TK.  Any pause in using the healing power was simply for dramatic effect.
If anyone questions the 'one power at a time' deal or the I had to think about how I felt about the person limitations... these would seem to have simply been mental bloacks of his own as he was learning about his abilities.  Now with no memories or 'feelings' to fall back on... his self imposed mental restraints are off.  The powers are there.. they are part of him... he's using them now not thinking about it... but more so on instinct and reflex.

Skylar: I wouldn't be surprised if the reason he didn't gain the powers is because it was all part of an elaborate illusion.  Candace's power scene to be full sensory... ie sound... visual... touch... etc.  So its not to far fetched if Skylar was being 'tested'

Nikki/DL/Miko:  DL being dead is simply ... DL is dead... he was mortaly wounded and didn't survive.  it wouldn't be the first time writers left a character looking like they would make it at the end of one season.. only to open the next season talking about him post mordem.  And Nikki... I doubt seriously if she whas the 'desease'.  She is simply continuing with the motif from last season of 'heal me from these freakish abilities so I can be normal'.  She never interacted with some of the other characters who came to accept what they could do as a part of themselves.  Listen to what she was telling Mika about not using powers and being normal.

Claire:  LOL... it isn't uncommon for girls to have thier ears pierced as a baby... which would likely have been prior to her powers developing. And even if she did get them pierced later... her power is to heal.  And her ears would have most certainly done that... around a gold post however.  And as someone with piercings in the ears for 20+ years and havent worn earings in the last 15-17... once they heal that way... the holes tend to stay there... period.  Skin may grow over them... but they won't heal any further because as far as your body is concerened.. there is no wound... they are already healed

[/spoiler]
So far.. so good.. I am enjoying the show.

Saw this on a van driving past. Guess what my first thought was? I can't wait for it to screen in Britain, is it obvious? :lol:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/sevenfan_2000/image_318.jpg)

[spoiler]Chalk me down as not believing that Candace was actually killed by Sylar.  Apart from Sylar's power not working, the fact that he seemed to step out into an episode of Lost strongly suggests that he's being confined by Candace's illusion power.  It seems very reminiscent of when Candace was keeping Micah trapped in Linderman's office building back in Season One.  Back then, Micah used his power to get out of a locked room, ran down a hallway, opened another door, and found himself back in the same room.

To me, this suggests that Candace is messing with Sylar's mind to try to break him down to the point that he doesn't know what reality is.[/spoiler]

If that's true Viking, I will be much happier.

Me as well, Vik.

Her powers are pretty powerful. I mean, this is almost reality control if true.

[spoiler]As I said earlier, the Sylar-is-still-trapped-in-Candace's-illusion theory seems likely to me, too. It does make Candace a very powerful illusionist, since she is making multiply layered illusions maintained over a long period of time and they have both tactile and likely gustatory and olfactory components as well. (Sylar both felt her hand and felt her when he "operated" on her and she provided the smell of the ocean and taste of that little fruity drink, although either of those could have been real). I mention this because creating tactile illusions basically is creating reality. When she creates enough illusory force to make a head-bashing seem real, then she is creating enough force to make handcuffs work and the same may go for knives, bullets, etc. Sylar's wounds may be real, but she could make him feel pain as well. And Sylar, who isn't an idiot, knew what her power was, so it's not as though he wouldn't have tried to make sure (and I assumed that why he was feeling her arm in that earlier scene, to check if she was really there).

BTW, it seems more likely to me that she creates light illusions and not mental ones. If she only created mental illusions, then they wouldn't fool cameras (as they seemed to in the "five years ahead" time line). So, if that's the case, she would have had to create actual forces for Sylar to feel; the force sensations wouldn't just be "in his head". Basically, by that theory, she is a plasma sculptor like Green Lantern, but her sculptures are better looking.

As an aside, it's also possible (though I don't necessarily think this is where they are going with it) that Sylar didn't actually lose any of his powers and that it's just that there's nothing real around for him to affect. Candace could be far away, monitoring him on telescopic cameras and microphones planted on him, depending on the range of her power.[/spoiler]

But was it really an orange? There was a rumor on a fan site that a second-assistant gaffer on the show said it was a grapefruit, but that the light from that red lamp in the background jut made it look like an orange. Plus, in issue #158 of Produce Patrol, Citrus Man claims that it was actually a tomato that he used his power on to make it taste like an orange. Now, that contradicts what was shown in the alternate time-line from three episodes ago where I am almost certain that The Scurvy Sultan is peeling the orange. I mean, you don't peel a tomato, right? My theory is that ...

;)

Okay, I can see where things get out of hand at times. But, as odd as all the analysis and criticism seem, they're part of what people do to become invested and increase their enjoyment of the show. Sorry if it bugs you.

Well, I can only speak for myself, obviously, but I enjoy the discussions and insights and honest disagreements. If something doesn't seem worth discussing, I just don't say anything. None of it here gets personal and I don't find it stressful.

Of course, if lots of people think this thread is too focused on details, maybe a good topic idea would be a "low-key Heroes discussion" thread that doesn't dig so deep. It's not like everyone is limited to just this one thread if they aren't getting what they want out of it...

So as not to bother IPS, then...

I liked this episode.  Stuff happened.  You know, with the thing?  And then that other thing?  In that place?

Awesome.

IPS, I'm sorry if I annoyed you.  You're certainly right about it stressing everyone out.  Now that I've cooled down some, I've found that I don't really care all that much about it.  So, end of that discussion.

Unfortunately the problem I'm personally having is less the "They said this but it contradicts..." insanity, but more that it's just not done as well as it was last season. Don't get me wrong, the first episode was awesome, but it seems like the longer this season has gone on, the less I like it. It's nothing I can point to and say "This is why" but more that I get this feeling, especially last episode, that they just are settling for "good enough" when it could be much better.

It's probably just me being overly-critical though. Meh.

For the record, I like the idea of Sylar still being trapped in Candice's illusion, especially since it fits with Sylar's inability to use his previous powers. It makes something that just seemed insanely stupid on Candice's part seem more possible.

Apparently, ratings for Heroes dropped for this episode--drastically.  It was one of the bottom shows this week, instead of being on top, like it used to be.

While I agree that the season has been slow starting off, I think that some people are being a little too hard on the show because of the amount of spoilers/theories that we are getting via the net.

It's the end of week 3 and we have some key developments:

[spoiler]

• Kaito Nakamura is dead and it seems someone is gunning for the "older generation" of Heroes.  The general assumption is that the "older generation" are the nine members of The Company.  Parkman is investigating the death of Kaito and presumably will be aided soon by at least Nathan Petrelli. Could the mysterious "Kane" character that has been eluded to be involved?
• Parkman and Mohinder are caring for Molly who is still suffering from the nightmares about this mystery figure and from an illness we presume is The Shanti Virus. Could the mysterious "Kane" character that has been eluded to be involved?
• Noah "HRG" Bennett, Mohinder, and The Haitian are looking for the "lost paintings of Issac Mendez".  They have two of them.  Mohinder has gone undercover to try and locate them.  The Company has a new figurehead in "Bob" and I wager that there is more to Bob that we currently suspect. Could the mysterious "Kane" character that has been eluded to be involved?
• Nikki has left her son in the care of his paternal grandmother in New Orleans.  She has done this because she is apparently either ill,  is looking for a cure for her powers or both.  It is suspected that Nana has a power.  It is known that Micah's cousin does.
• Sylar is back!  He killed Candace but was unable to access her powers despite apparently draining them.  He is unable to access any of his powers that he has stolen.  It is presumed that Sylar is being held by The Company, but is he? Could the mysterious "Kane" character that has been eluded to be involved?
• Kenshi is not the grand hero that Hiro thought him to be initially.  However, with Hiro's coaching, Kenshi may well become that legend very quickly.  As for the mysterious disappearance of Kenshi and The Princess that is noted in the legend?  It might be safe to say that Hiro could very well bring them back to the present with him.  He may also find them waiting for him in the present.
• Peter Petrelli is in Cork, Ireland with no memories of who he is and how he got there.  We know he has a new power (the lighting zapping) and we know he has a dark side now.  We also know that Peter has become willing to leave whatever past he doesn't remember behind him for Caitlin.  And last but not least, Peter is believed dead by his mother and brother.  It's been four months since anyone has apparently seen him at the beginning of the episode but this is not likely the case.  So, what happened to Peter in those four months? 
• Claire is trying to adjust to her new "incognito" existence.  How long will this last?  Apparently not long, as West has already learned her secret.  West has a secret of his own . . . not that he can fly but that he has a grudge against Claire's adopted father. 
• And last but not least: Maya and Alejandro.  The pair that many fans here are quickly writing off.  However, I've noticed a few things about their story that seems VERY methodical and well planned.
  
  
  • Week 1 - We are introduced to them and we learn about Maya's power.  Her "black tears" are fatal to anyone around her.
  • Week 2 - We learn that Alejandro has the power to counteract her tears and absorb her "pain" into him where he neutralizes the tears and those in the immediate area that she has affected.  We also are given the hint that its believed her tears could kill "The Devil himself". 
  • Week 3 - While Maya has been reluctant to use her power in the past.  She very willingly uses her ability to free her brother as she knows her brother can counteract the act.  They pick up an American whose car bears a resemblance to the car that was stolen from Claire in the week two episode. 

[/spoiler]

While things are coming together slowly, things are coming together.  The writers obviously have a plan but rather that plan works as they have envisioned remains to be seen.

Yes, I do agree with you.  In fact, in many ways, things are coming together much more quickly than in Season 1.

However, the fact that new/casual viewers are finding this show confusing, frustrating and impossible to follow is already hurting it and may doom the show, especially as they are advertising and pushing it for new viewers.

G4 is picking up Heroes re-runs.

Got an e-mail and they're going to do Season 1 marathon on Oct 27th and 28th, then they're going to start re-running Season 2 episodes on Saturday nights at 10pm EST starting November 3rd.

That, I have no problem with, but they're also going to have a post-show after each episode on Saturdays, hosted by Kevin P and Blair Butler. Not too fond of that idea, unless it means a shuffle in the schedule that means the Man Show re-runs or some other crap gets dropped.

No ones arguing with your recap of the events, Mr. H.  Its the dunderheaded, heavy handed implementation that bothers us.

[spoiler]
But who is this "Kane" you keep referring to?  I've never heard anything about him.

I think its fairly obvious that the killer is Kenzei:
a) He's immortal, so he's alive in the present
b) Hiro is going to abscond with the swordmakers daughter - there's your motive
c) He fits the build of the figure in the hoodie that pushed Hiro's dad off the building.
d) The fact that he has Claire's power means he'd survive the fall. [/spoiler]

As for the rest of it, the show will be VASTLY improved, and I will take back about half of what I said if next weeks episode has at least one (preferably both) of the following scenes:

[spoiler]
a) A very alive Candace watching Sylar freak the heck out along with several other armed guards.

b) Peter(or Hot Irish sister, either works) opening the box while the other one sleeps after shagging

[/spoiler]

Bredon, the only point I was arguing was in reference to the "inconsequential storyline" comment made by IPS.  As for your comments about my "dunderheaded, heavy-handed implementation", I don't see anything being said negative or positive about my recap method of trying to illustrate my point about rather or not the Alejandro and Maya storyline and rather or not it will be important to the overall story.  I believe it will be and I also believe that the writers have a very deliberate pace, even if that pace is a bit slow.  It's slow because of the amount of stories being told. 

[spoiler] As for the mysterious "Kane" character: No idea on who the character is or was intended to be.  Just that the character was referenced by the creators over the summer.  The reference was made in relation to both "the being that could see Molly" and "to someone who will be very involved with Sylar's storyline".  If I recall, the character was said to be immortal (not capable of resurrecting himself) which is the reason that many are expecting it to be Kenshi.  However, material up on the Heroes website right now is suggesting otherwise.  There are suggestions is that Kenshi is a healer (like Claire) and that he is not immortal but will be brought forward in time by Hiro. [/spoiler]

Quote from: Mr. Hamrick on October 12, 2007, 05:48:04 PM
Bredon, the only point I was arguing was in reference to the "inconsequential storyline" comment made by IPS.  As for your comments about my "dunderheaded, heavy-handed implementation", I don't see anything being said negative or positive about my recap method of trying to illustrate my point about rather or not the Alejandro and Maya storyline and rather or not it will be important to the overall story.  I believe it will be and I also believe that the writers have a very deliberate pace, even if that pace is a bit slow.  It's slow because of the amount of stories being told. 

[spoiler] As for the mysterious "Kane" character: No idea on who the character is or was intended to be.  Just that the character was referenced by the creators over the summer.  The reference was made in relation to both "the being that could see Molly" and "to someone who will be very involved with Sylar's storyline".  If I recall, the character was said to be immortal (not capable of resurrecting himself) which is the reason that many are expecting it to be Kenshi.  However, material up on the Heroes website right now is suggesting otherwise.  There are suggestions is that Kenshi is a healer (like Claire) and that he is not immortal but will be brought forward in time by Hiro. [/spoiler]

Whoops! Sorry I wasn't clear!  I didn't mean YOU were dunderheaded and heavy handed, I meant the SHOW was being dunderheaded and heavy handed in the way they were showing the events you cleanly and smartly recapped.!

Sorry for any offense, none was inteded, I assure you! :(

Just popping in here to say one thing.

[spoiler]

Quote from: bredon7777 on October 12, 2007, 05:20:50 PM
d) The fact that he has Claire's power means he'd survive the fall.

Ando looked down at most about 5 seconds after they fell off the roof.  I highly doubt he could have landed, regenerated, gotten back up, and ran out of sight in that time.  And even if he did, he would have left a pool of blood where he landed.
[/spoiler]

I'm wondering if Heroes might not be better if each week they showed more story but less characters:

Week 1- 15 min each of Hiro/Claire/Peter

Week 2 - 15 minutes each of Parkman/Mohinder/Sylar

Week 3 - 15 minutes of Micah/Niki/Nathan

Then back to week 1, etc

Of course there'd be some overlap- Mr. Bennet appears in both Mohinder and Claire's storylines, etc.  You could adjust the times as the threads weave closer together, as well.

I think it might work better than trying to connect with every character, every week. What do you think?

I was browsing the Heroes site and found something--it's Zeroes, Episode one!

Yep, the viral marketing parody has now spawned its own parody series.

Unfortunately, I can't get a direct link from the heroes website.  Fortunately, it's up on Youtube as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX3TRcKNf5E

Lots of straight up parody scenes of Heroes episode 1.  Hee hee.

According to the advertisements for season 2, one of the "heroes" is responsible for the  murder of Kaito Nakamura (aka George Takei).

-MJB

Sigh... Looks like my theory about Candace and Sylar has been utterly demolished.

[spoiler]So it looks like Candace really was fool enough to get killed by Sylar, who would then have attempted to eat her brain to get her powers.

I have another theory as to why Sylar didn't get her powers from eating her brain, though.

Candace had no brain.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Yes, what a shame.  However, the silver lining is that he can now kill Maya and Alejandro, which will improve the show immensley. [/spoiler]

ETA: [spoiler]
Parkman, you are an idiot. Molly gave you the building address and the floor. There was no reason to push her- how many apartments can there BE per floor! I hope your proud of yourself. So best guess- Molly Astral projects when she searches for someone, and Parkman's father has some way of keeping her from returning to her body.[/spoiler]


Overall, better than the complete mess that was last week, but still not up to what I expect on this show.

I like Micha's cousin quite a bit- [spoiler] She's basically Taskmaster, yes? [/spoiler]

[spoiler]
I loved the
Matt-Petrelli storyline.  Could have actually done without the rest of it, although the Maya-Sylar part was at least an improvement.

I do find the cousin's copy any skill she see's ability interesting--and it makes her another potentially overpowered character.  They don't learn do they?
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Yes, bredon, it seems she's got the same power as Taskmaster. However, I wonder if it only works on stuff she sees on tv.....

Nice 619 on the robber.[/spoiler]

Cat
[spoiler]
Gotta disagree here.  There's a big difference between skills and powers.  All the skills in the world wont help her against anyone with a power.

She might be overpowered for normal people, but then normal people arent what this show is about. [/spoiler]

[spoiler]I like how the powers of relatives seem to be somewhat similar.

Micah has a cybernetic brain in order to speak with machines.....not her brain and body
are almost hotwired like a machine in order to take in and store information from TV signals.

That is why when Micah went and hugged her....he could see her dreams and such because she is like a living machine almost.
I do wonder what their Grandmother's power is though.

Also, Matt's father might have similar mental powers especially because he can see/sense Molly's gift.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
It's a little early to be jumping to the "she can only copy what she sees on TV" conclusion, isn't it?  I agree that this power isn't "over-powered" so to speak, as it would only allow her to copy the abilities of normal, if skilled, people.

Sylar's arrival actually made Maya & bro. a lot more interesting to me.  His "golly" in response to learning they'd killed someone made me laugh out loud.  I still need a good reason as to why his powers aren't working (could it be as simple as a mental block due to his broken watch?), and I think they missed an opportunity in having him manipulated by Candice, but things are looking up.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
I doubt Sylar ate her brain.  There was blood all over his hands, but none on his mouth.
[/spoiler]

There wasn't much I liked about this episode, though maybe that's just me.  The pacing was very slow, there were big plotholes, and several characters exhibited an alarming lack of common sense (don't get me started on Claire's storyline, just don't).  I do have a few comments, though.

[spoiler]
I don't have much concern about Monica getting overpowered.  From what I've heard, it involves duplicating specific physical motions.  I suppose she could become a really good martial artist, maybe a few other skills like lockpicking, holding a gun right, etc. but there's plenty of skills that she can't master.  And, as bredon7777 says, it doesn't help her much against someone who has powers of their own.

I found the depiction of New Orleans to be better than most.  The house looks like one you would find here.  The "you can just walk down Bourbon Street for that" line, in addition to being hilarious, rang very true, as was the one about FEMA trailers.  I could easily imagine someone here saying that.  On the other hand, the Southern accents, particularly on Monica's friend, were too thick.  Also, despite having Katrina be a major part of a character's background, they apparently didn't research its actual effects much.  Thanks to a lot of people moving away after Katrina, unemployment was drastically reduced.  I remember hearing about a year ago that New Orleans had a full employment economy, and anyone who wanted work could get it.  Nitpicking a little, in Louisiana, counties are called parishes.

In general, I like most of the New Orleans characters, especially Monica.  They're a big improvement over the other new characters.  Her storyline, like the rest of the episode was a little slow, though.

Is it really necessary for Maya to use her powers every. Single. Episode?  And thanks to Derrek getting killed, their storyline of last episode was mostly pointless.  They could have just had Alejandro steal a car and not get caught and there would have been no further effect on the story.

Talavar, Sylar's watch has been broken since he first appeared last season.  It's even still on the same time, seven minutes to midnight.

Besides, meeting the new characters, Nathan, Molly, Mohinder and Matt's shared storyline was the only good part of this episode.  The scene where Molly located Matt's father was great.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

QuoteIs it really necessary for Maya to use her powers every. Single. Episode?  And thanks to Derrek getting killed, their storyline of last episode was mostly pointless.  They could have just had Alejandro steal a car and not get caught and there would have been no further effect on the story.

Ah, but you're forgetting... in every episode Sylar is in now, he must kill someone. It's like the riddler with his riddles...even when he tries to not kill people, he ends up killing them.

Meh, that part blew, but I liked everything else. The fact that Parkman's dad is the baddie is horribly anticlimatic (as soon as Nathan handed the photo to him I just went, "Yeah, it's his dad, of course"), but the scenes waere good enough I could overlook it. 

I dissagree about family's having similar powers, because no matter how you toss it, Pyrokenetic+Flier does not equal Healing.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: Tomato on October 15, 2007, 08:01:52 PM
I dissagree about family's having similar powers, because no matter how you toss it, Pyrokenetic+Flier does not equal Healing.

Nor does superstrength + phasing = technopathy.

[spoiler]

Quote from: Tomato on October 15, 2007, 08:01:52 PMThe fact that Parkman's dad is the baddie is horribly anticlimatic (as soon as Nathan handed the photo to him I just went, "Yeah, it's his dad, of course"), but the scenes waere good enough I could overlook it.

My theory is that the father isn't the bad guy. I think it's a red herring.
[/spoiler]

-MJB

[spoiler]
I missed it when I was watching, but apparently Matt said that Janice was pregnant with someone else's kid.  Even though Five Years Gone established that that kid has a power.  It says a lot about how low my expectations have gotten that this doesn't bother me in the least.
[/spoiler]

Could it be Bob? Anyways, did anyone notice if Kensai was in the pic?

I liked this episode, overall. Still some holding pattern malarkey, but I wasn't constantly annoyed as I watched it.

[spoiler]Random comments;

I like that Nathan is pulling his crap together. Teaming up with Parkman and, presumably, Mohinder and Molly, is a good thing. It was a little predictable that Matt's father is one of the twelve along with Bob, a.k.a. Ned "Needlenose" Reyerson.

Did anyone else get the impression that Mrs. Petrelli confessed hoping for some protection in jail? I don't like the premise, but  don't see where else that is going. Unless the killer is some sort of redemption judge who kills unless he thinks the target has made amends for his crimes. What Hiro's dad mentioned might fit in with that. Still, pretty odd.

Also, Ohura wasn't in that photo of the twelve older specials that Nathan found. Take that to mean what you will. It's possible that some of the people in the photo weren't in the group of older specials or that the composition of the group changed over time.

Also, Kensei wasn't in it either, unless he is supposed to look considerably different now.

Do we really even know that all of the people in that photo have powers? I think Bob sort of implied that, but I am not certain. I don't think we ever saw Sulu using a power. We've only really seen that some of them do. It seems to me that at some point Nathan (and Maybe Mohinder, who knows Bob has a power) should realize that many people in the photo have powers and start asking his mom some questions (e.g. what powers did she and his dad have?).

Nice touch with the symbol in Molly's eyes in the "He is the nightmare man!" scene.

It was out of character for Matt and Mohinder not to think of Molly's safety after she had given him the address and floor of the apartment where her father was and then she says, "He knows I'm here. He's coming!" I mean, Matt would have pulled her out at that point, not pressed her for the apartment number. Admittedly, he doesn't really know what danger his father poses to Molly and some apartment buildings (though not that one) have dozens of apartments per floor, but he does know the guy's real name (whether or not he still uses it) and what he looks like. There is no point in putting her at risk to save himself a couple hours of stakeout work.

It would be kinda cool if Matt's dad recognizes Matt while Matt is reading Molly's mind, trying to bring her back around.

We don't know that Monica only learns skills she's seen on TV, though that's a likely read of the scene, if only because maybe they finally are trying to establish some link between the powers of related specials. It will be interesting to see where they go with this. If she can acquire powers and not just skills, then we may have another uber on our hands. But, maybe she can only acquire skills she sees demonstrated, not ones that just happen. I'll bother pointing out the obvious: just about anything you can see in real life, you can show on a TV. If that's really her mechanism, then she may want to invest in a video camera.

BTW, I don't know that Micah sense her thoughts because of her connection to TV-related skill acquisition. It could be, of course, but I thought that line was a throwaway.

On a purely silly note: Four episodes in, I am voting Monica hottest new character and in the running for hottest overall.  :cool:

FWIW, we have no more idea what happened to Candace at the end of this episode than at the end of the last one. It would really suck if she was bright enough to transport Sylar thousands of miles to the coast of Mexico, treat his injuries and maintain an illusory world for him for all this time and she completely forgets that he's a killer. I know we can't say one way or the other, but I would prefer to think that she or her employers decided to let him think he escaped.

I agree that the Wonder Twin story is much more interesting now that Sylar is part of it. And, I totally agree that the Derek storyline was wasted space. It's more of the cut-and-paste approach to their arc that we've seen before. At least now there is some connectedness to the rest of the show. And, yes, Sylar's "golly" was classic.  :D

As a side note, the last time Alejandro cured Maya's victims, afterward they seemed weakened by the experience. Sylar seemed to recover very quickly, even though we know he is still recovering from serious injuries. Maybe he was cured earlier than Derek and the others were, though, since Alejandro was right there.

Claire's storyline has taken top spot for most annoying (displacing the Wonder Twins arc).

No Peter this episode, but I don't miss it. I like the character and have some interest to see if his arc becomes interesting. But, I have the feeling that it's all filler to keep him from reconnecting with the others until later in the season.

Basically ditto for Hiro.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 15, 2007, 10:51:18 PM
Did anyone else get the impression that Mrs. Petrelli confessed hoping for some protection in jail? I don't like the premise, but  don't see where else that is going. Unless the killer is some sort of redemption judge who kills unless he thinks the target has made amends for his crimes. What Hiro's dad mentioned might fit in with that. Still, pretty odd.

She explained her reasonings to Parkman via mind reading. She said that if they keep digging into their past they will surely find out about the "heroes". While it can be argued that she wanted to be arrested for the protection her explanation to Parkman is all we have to go on right now.

Quote from: stumpyFWIW, we have no more idea what happened to Candace at the end of this episode than at the end of the last one. It would really suck if she was bright enough to transport Sylar thousands of miles to the coast of Mexico, treat his injuries and maintain an illusory world for him for all this time and she completely forgets that he's a killer. I know we can't say one way or the other, but I would prefer to think that she or her employers decided to let him think he escaped.

This raises the question that if Candace and her employer decided to allow Sylar to escape what do they want from him? Sylar made the comment about being hunted, who's hunting him?

Quote from: stumpyAs a side note, the last time Alejandro cured Maya's victims, afterward they seemed weakened by the experience. Sylar seemed to recover very quickly, even though we know he is still recovering from serious injuries. Maybe he was cured earlier than Derek and the others were, though, since Alejandro was right there.

None of Maya's victims have been cured as quickly as Sylar was. It's quite possible that he didn't have the sickness long enough to be weakened.
[/spoiler]

-MJB

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 15, 2007, 10:51:18 PM
On a purely silly note: Four episodes in, I am voting Monica hottest new character and in the running for hottest overall.  :cool:

From the preview for next week, we can see Elle (played by Kristen Bell) will finally make her debut.  I'm rather excited and she'll definitely get my vote  :P
[/spoiler]

A prediction/theory

[spoiler]
Matt's dad is not the real baddie.  He's actually hiding from the real one or from the Company, or both.  Molly's a little girl, so just because she thinks he's so bad doesn't really mean he is.  He, likewise, has no way of knowing who it is that can see him, but probably assumes it's the bad guy and/or Company and is merely trying to scare whoever it is away to protect himself.  When he realizes it's just a little girl that his son has adopted, the nightmares and scariness will stop.
[/spoiler]

This is sort of a wild theory, so it may not even be close.

[spoiler]Has anyone else noticed that, despite saving the cheerleader and stopping the bomb, everything is still spirling down to the events of "5 Years Later"? Whenever Sylar's extra powers stop being blocked (given the cockroach next to whats his face's body, it's likely the actual "bad guy" who's doing it) He'll have Candice's abilities, Nathan is sort of unofficially teaming up with Parkman and Mohinder, Clair has begun her fate of being continuously in hiding, etc.

But yeah, the more I think about it, the more I agree that Parkman's dad isn't the baddie. But if he isn't, why is he giving molly nightmares and taken her mind captive? Is it an attempt to send some kind of message?[/spoiler]

Tomato, see my theory above.

As to Claire's storyline...
[spoiler]
I half-expected Superman to fly in when Claire & FlyBoy were hovering and making out, and be irate that FlyBoy was stealing his moves.  "This is how I pick up women!"

Has Sylar's watch really always been broken?  I totally missed/forgot that.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: Talavar on October 16, 2007, 08:35:19 AM
Has Sylar's watch really always been broken?  I totally missed/forgot that.

Yep.  When Mohinder dreams about Sylar killing Chandra in Seven Minutes to Midnight, there's a long, lingering shot of Sylar's broken watch.  We also see him wearing the still broken watch in the Burnt Toast Diner in present day in that same episode.
[/spoiler]

A couple observations...

[spoiler]I really like the potential of the Micah/Monica/Grandma story line.  Monica has a very nice power. Although it isn't clear , as others have mentioned, if its photo-reflexes or some how elctronically transmitted bia the TV to her brain... even though that would be lame considering all TVs don't operate on the same technology.  Micah did not feel any 'electrical' impulse from Monica... he was simply being in character... ie being somewhat sensitive to the feelings of others and 'wishing' he had the power to fivx her dreams.

Skylar joining the 'wonder twins' arc has just sparked life into it.  I have no problem with Derek getting the axe.. cause all it did was to set up the most bizarre co-incidence imaginable.  If that's Claire's car...  surely she may have some type of identifiable items in there.  Registration most certainly which would devulge address... and something with a picture...? not unlikely.  Skylar in her car.... IMO... it just builds up to thier cover being blown by one man who may be desperate to 'heal' himself at all cost.

Matt was kinda pushy with the kid.. he didn't have to get the 'floor' 'room number' and all that... cause.. hell .. isn't he a 'detective'... ie figure it out.  And i don't think his father is necesarily a villain.. but he does seam to possess some sort of mental ability and probably is hiding .

Now the picture
(http://newpowerinc.com/hqsamples/12-photo.jpg)

You heard it hear first (???) Charles DEVEAUX... if that ain't a Cajon name... straight out the Bayou of Lousiana... then call me a white boy named Bill.  I'm very certain that there will be a connection built up between him and Grandma 'Uhura'... ie... offspring with powers.  I almost wanted to say that the black woman sitting down was maybe Grandma .... but I'm not too sure about that.  Just doesn't look like her enough in the pic.

Another major note... we have never seen daddy Petrelli (sp).  Even in this picture... he is the only guy with his head turned and we can't get a clear look at him.   Are we even sure he's dead?  My money is he's the big bad.  Bigger money say he's Kensie!

Also I'm going with the process of elimination.  I'm sure 'Bob' isn't the big bad.  I doubt Matt's dad is... and that would leave the big bad to be one of the three women depicted... and I'm not ready to give writers enough credit to make the big bad.... a woman.  That leaves Daddy Petrelli... who we never seen on the show and was simply 'told' he was dead.... but as we have noted... we have ben told many things which were later not necessarily the truth[/spoiler]

Quote from: House Quake on October 16, 2007, 02:44:53 PM
A couple observations...

[spoiler]I really like the potential of the Micah/Monica/Grandma story line.  Monica has a very nice power. Although it isn't clear , as others have mentioned, if its photo-reflexes or some how elctronically transmitted bia the TV to her brain... even though that would be lame considering all TVs don't operate on the same technology.  Micah did not feel any 'electrical' impulse from Monica... he was simply being in character... ie being somewhat sensitive to the feelings of others and 'wishing' he had the power to fivx her dreams.

Skylar joining the 'wonder twins' arc has just sparked life into it.  I have no problem with Derek getting the axe.. cause all it did was to set up the most bizarre co-incidence imaginable.  If that's Claire's car...  surely she may have some type of identifiable items in there.  Registration most certainly which would devulge address... and something with a picture...? not unlikely.  Skylar in her car.... IMO... it just builds up to thier cover being blown by one man who may be desperate to 'heal' himself at all cost.

Matt was kinda pushy with the kid.. he didn't have to get the 'floor' 'room number' and all that... cause.. hell .. isn't he a 'detective'... ie figure it out.  And i don't think his father is necesarily a villain.. but he does seam to possess some sort of mental ability and probably is hiding .

Now the picture
(http://newpowerinc.com/hqsamples/12-photo.jpg)

You heard it hear first (???) Charles DEVEAUX... if that ain't a Cajon name... straight out the Bayou of Lousiana... then call me a white boy named Bill.  I'm very certain that there will be a connection built up between him and Grandma 'Uhura'... ie... offspring with powers.  I almost wanted to say that the black woman sitting down was maybe Grandma .... but I'm not too sure about that.  Just doesn't look like her enough in the pic.

Another major note... we have never seen daddy Petrelli (sp).  Even in this picture... he is the only guy with his head turned and we can't get a clear look at him.   Are we even sure he's dead?  My money is he's the big bad.  Bigger money say he's Kensie!

Also I'm going with the process of elimination.  I'm sure 'Bob' isn't the big bad.  I doubt Matt's dad is... and that would leave the big bad to be one of the three women depicted... and I'm not ready to give writers enough credit to make the big bad.... a woman.  That leaves Daddy Petrelli... who we never seen on the show and was simply 'told' he was dead.... but as we have noted... we have ben told many things which were later not necessarily the truth[/spoiler]

[spoiler]You know... now that i think about it, Kensei being Mr. Petrelli would explain alot. Mrs Petrelli mentioned that he was suicidal, and being immortal Kensei might very well wish to finally die. Plus, he'd have a certain ammount of resentment for Mrs. Petrelli's affair, and it would also explain why she chose to agree to go to prison.

Still, it seems like too much for some reason. I understand your reasoning, but I bring myself to believe him to be both Kensei and the big bad.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 15, 2007, 10:51:18 PM
Bob, a.k.a. Ned "Needlenose" Reyerson.

BING!

Yeah, HQ, I was also thinking Kensai is a Petrelli. And Monica's my new favorite character. I bet the woman sitting next to Devaux is supposed to be Ohoura. My 2 cents.[/spoiler]

Hey, some interesting theories here! Some good storylines could come out of any of them.  :cool:

[spoiler]BTW, do we have any idea who the white-haired guy below Parkman Sr. is in the photo? I was assuming that he is one of the five people in the photo that we haven't met on the show yet. They were: The standing blonde woman at the left, the seated brunette woman at the left, the standing auburn-haired woman next to Parkman Sr., the seated mustached man below Bob, and the seated white-haired man below Parkman Sr.

We don't know much about Petrelli Sr., either and we can't really see him in the photo. His face is oddly blurred and he is looking away, apparently at something off the right edge of the photo. I would guess we will know what he was looking at before the season concludes...

It would fit that he was Kensei. For one thing, he would have a pretty easy time faking his death. Of course, he must be aging since 1671 then; it would be sort of noticeable for him to look no older than Nathan. Also, he is about the right height for the photo, going by the actors' stature: at six foot even, he's a few inches taller than Linderman and a couple inches shorter than Bob.

Quote from: Adamence on October 16, 2007, 04:50:30 AMFrom the preview for next week, we can see Elle (played by Kristen Bell) will finally make her debut.  I'm rather excited and she'll definitely get my vote  :P

I totally forgot she was making her way from Neptune to Earth. Very cool. And, yes, another contender for hottest special, though, IMO, Monica has a prettier face.

Quote from: The Hitman on October 16, 2007, 03:44:18 PM

Quote from: stumpy on October 15, 2007, 10:51:18 PM
Bob, a.k.a. Ned "Needlenose" Reyerson.

BING!

(http://home.graffiti.net/stumpyanker:graffiti.net/emoticons/laughing.gif)(http://home.graffiti.net/stumpyanker:graffiti.net/emoticons/laugh-rolling.gif)(http://home.graffiti.net/stumpyanker:graffiti.net/emoticons/laughing.gif)

Quote from: The Hitman on October 16, 2007, 03:44:18 PMYeah, HQ, I was also thinking Kensai is a Petrelli. And Monica's my new favorite character. I bet the woman sitting next to Devaux is supposed to be Ohoura. My 2 cents.

I don't think that the seated woman is Uhura. It doesn't look very much like her, IMO.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]The whole flying to school thing doesn't bother me that much. It is rather stupid yes, but they did something similar in the invincible comic and I always thought it was kinda clever. When Invincible and Atom Eve change behind the school near a dumpster he asks how do they get out unnoticed and she replies to just fly out and that you would be surprised by how very few people ever look up.

Of course... several people recognized them with ease at a few points in the comic though, heh. He should at least wear a hockey mask after all he mentioned it was colder at really high altitudes. You would think like others mentioned he'd be more paranoid after being captured once.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 16, 2007, 04:11:01 PM
I don't think that the seated woman is Uhura. It doesn't look very much like her, IMO.

I know. I just figure... what if they got someone to stand in as a "younger" Uhura... but then why wouldn't they use a younger Linderman, Mrs. Petrelli, Deveaux, etc.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 16, 2007, 04:11:01 PM
We don't know much about Petrelli Sr., either and we can't really see him in the photo. His face is oddly blurred and he is looking away, apparently at something off the right edge of the photo. I would guess we will know what he was looking at before the season concludes...

It would fit that he was Kensei. For one thing, he would have a pretty easy time faking his death. Of course, he must be aging since 1671 then; it would be sort of noticeable for him to look no older than Nathan. Also, he is about the right height for the photo, going by the actors' stature: at six foot even, he's a few inches taller than Linderman and a couple inches shorter than Bob.

His face is sort of blurred, but he clearly has a receding hairline.  He doesn't look that much like Kensei.  And the web comic series War Buddies doesn't fit at all with that theory.  In that series, Mr. Petrelli is clearly younger (I doubt he would stay the same age for centuries, then suddenly start aging), looks nothing like Kensei, considers Linderman a freak for being able to heal others, never acts like he could survive getting shot, and worst of all, he actually does get shot in one scene and stays injured for what has to be at least 30 seconds before Linderman heals him.  After Linderman heals him, he reacts in shock and asks Linderman what he did to him.  Then again, given how they've been treating things established in previous episodes lately, maybe I'm expecting too much of the writers.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: Conduit on October 16, 2007, 05:17:15 PM
[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 16, 2007, 04:11:01 PM
We don't know much about Petrelli Sr., either and we can't really see him in the photo. His face is oddly blurred and he is looking away, apparently at something off the right edge of the photo. I would guess we will know what he was looking at before the season concludes...

It would fit that he was Kensei. For one thing, he would have a pretty easy time faking his death. Of course, he must be aging since 1671 then; it would be sort of noticeable for him to look no older than Nathan. Also, he is about the right height for the photo, going by the actors' stature: at six foot even, he's a few inches taller than Linderman and a couple inches shorter than Bob.

His face is sort of blurred, but he clearly has a receding hairline.  He doesn't look that much like Kensei.  And the web comic series War Buddies doesn't fit at all with that theory.  In that series, Mr. Petrelli is clearly younger (I doubt he would stay the same age for centuries, then suddenly start aging), looks nothing like Kensei, considers Linderman a freak for being able to heal others, never acts like he could survive getting shot, and worst of all, he actually does get shot in one scene and stays injured for what has to be at least 30 seconds before Linderman heals him.  After Linderman heals him, he reacts in shock and asks Linderman what he did to him.  Then again, given how they've been treating things established in previous episodes lately, maybe I'm expecting too much of the writers.
[/spoiler]

Where did you find "War Buddies"?

Parts one and two are here (http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novels_library.shtml?novel=25).  The other parts are here (http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novels_library.shtml?novel=30).

I found this interesting pic over in the hero forums:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/USAgent/2v12fsn.gif)

I looks like there is someone standing between Mr. Nakamura and Bob in the overlay photo with a white coat on, and it may be possibly who Mr. Petrelli is looking at.  But why could he be seen in the "marked for death" photos but not the regular one?

Some random thoughts - may contain spoilers

[spoiler]

- The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Candace is actually alive, and created the whole "death" thing with one of her illusions after all.  Think about it: Hana destroyed the Company's tracker/locater and then Mohinder/Parkman took their backup one away from them.
What better way to find powered people then to let Sylar "escape" and track him, knowing he will be driven to seek out powered people in order to regain his abilities. Now, whether they've got a power-negator near him at all times, or they've borrowed Spike's chip is unclear (if they've borrowed Spike's chip, it certainly didn't stop him from murdering an ordinary guy).

It makes a certain amount of sense (which is probably why its not true :D) ): Sylar would never join the company of his own free will. The company would never be stupid enough to keep him under such light guard (even if they surgically removed all the bits he'd grafted into himself to get extra powers). It'd explain why we've heard the ticking effect indicating he's accessing his powers twice now. He didn't get Candace's powers because the strain of creating an illusion within an illusion was too much; or maybe they wanted to plant the beginnings of a mental block so that he'd not be able to access new powers. Plus, I just don't believe that he could walk for three days and survive (given the state he was in last episode) without someone covertly assisting him.

Dana Davis (Micha's cousin, whose name escapes me) looks no more than a few years older than Micah himself, so shame on you stumpster. :D  Plus, as others have pointed out- as soon as Kristen Bell shows up, the title of "Hottest woman on the show" zooms straight to her. 

I really hope Micah's cousin's ability is to duplicate ANY action she sees, not just ones she sees on TV. Mainly because it seems such an arbitrary and stupid limitation.  Also because, hello, how many times a day do you see people doing extrordinary things in front of you?  That said, however, the scene between her and Micah was filmed oddly- there was a weird emphasis on the way his hand was lying flat on her back, and he was making the same face he makes when "talking" to machines, so I dunno...

Parkman is still a schmuck, but just because the kid wasn't his after all doesn't necessarily mean it can't have powers.  They're are a million different ways around that.  I'm still a little ticked that they went for the easy  out- my brother is an EMT in NYC and knows more than his share of cops. More than one divorce has been caused by a refusal to take a desk job after being injured in the line of duty.

I'm a little surprised about how many people took Mrs. Petrelli seriously.  I got a totally different vibe from that scene- I didn't believe for a second she'd had an affair with Kaito- I just thought that she was saying that because it'd give her a credible motive in the eyes of the police.

I wouldn't be surprise if Mr. Petrelli senior is still alive, and whether or not Parkman's dad is the BIG bad or not, he's still apparently holding Molly's soul hostage, and that makes him more than bad enough for me.
[/spoiler]

ips-

[spoiler]
Sorry- its been well established that Sylar removes the brains entirely. There were repeated comments in Season 1 about how there were no brains at the crime scenes. 

It's never been established exactly what he DOES do with them, but I think we can pretty much rule out just looking at them. [/spoiler]

[spoiler]The more I think about, the more convinced I am that Sylar is definitely getting help.  I don't think he could have walked for three days with the injuries Candace said he had, and in the most recent episode, he really didn't seem all that hurt to me.  If Candace's illusions are more than just images, and are in fact illusions to all senses, she could have faked his injuries, causing him to feel pain and then when he broke free of her illusions (if he ever really did) they just went away.  Or maybe he did kill Candace and the Big Bad is in fact following him and helping him and if Sylar really was injured, healed him. 

Perhaps the Big Bad knows of Maya's power, knows that it could possibly kill him (the reference to it being able to 'kill the devil') and thus wants to eliminate that threat to increase it's hope of survival.  By leading Sylar to Maya, the Big Bad may be hoping that Sylar will kill Maya, and will make a bargain with the Big Bad to not 'kill the devil' in exchange for what Sylar really wants...power.

There's just something about the cockroach that we saw near Derek's dead body that really leads me to suspect this.  We saw cockroaches several times first season, including one beside Sylar as he lay "dead" at Primatech, as well as one crawling on the manhole cover that Sylar vanished into.

Coincidence?  Maybe...or maybe not.

I'm also reminded of Mohinder's lecture on evolution and how he said in terms of evolution, cockroaches were almost perfect.  Seems to me the Big Bad might be almost perfect as well.

And also...

Quote from: bredon7777 on October 16, 2007, 09:07:26 PM
Dana Davis (Micha's cousin, whose name escapes me) looks no more than a few years older than Micah himself, so shame on you stumpster. biggrin  Plus, as others have pointed out- as soon as Kristen Bell shows up, the title of "Hottest woman on the show" zooms straight to her.

YES!  I am truly glad I am not alone on that thought.


[/spoiler]

I came across this a few minutes ago, in case anyone was interested in learning a bit more about the new character Elle before next week's episode.

[spoiler]

QuoteHere we are, now less than a week away from Kristen Bell's arrival on Heroes, and a few more morsels of intel are trickling in about her enabled alter ego, Elle. "She's a little messed up in the head, which makes her manipulative and out to get what she wants," the former Veronica Mars shared in a Tuesday conference call. That, Bell notes, is "really interesting... because [Heroes'] whole first season was about these fairly good-natured people trying to embrace these abilities and being very conflicted as to how they should be using them. Elle is not that way at all. She very much enjoys her power and the emotional power it gives her over other people." Series creator Tim Kring adds, "Elle was raised within the Company, and this is in some ways a cautionary tale about what would happen to any of our characters had they lived with powers their whole life."

As for Elle's ties to the canvas, Bell reveals that in addition to "a little bit" of a connection to Suresh, "There's a very interesting dynamic between her and Claire, in terms of what is and what is not. There's a deeper relationship there than people are expecting."


Source: TVGuide.com

"This face? Right here? My over-the-moon face."  :)
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Conduit: Good point about the unlikelihood of Petrelli being Kensei. I had forgotten that "War Buddies" established Petrelli as the character Linderman met in Viet Nam. Assuming they are the same Petrelli (and it would be a cheap switch if they aren't), then there is no way Petrelli is Kensei.

bredon7777: Monica isn't just a few years older than Micah. Puh-lease. Dana Davis is like 27 years old, which is in line with what I was assuming because Monica claimed to be the breadwinner for that household. I can lust after her with impunity. ;)

Also, I agree with ips that we don't really know what Sylar does with the brains which is something discussed in the Heroes thread (http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=40961.msg593468;topicseen#msg593468) last season.

I am glad more people are coming on board with the Candace-is-not-dead theory. We don't know either way, but I would prefer that no more characters are idiots than necessary.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

I'm well aware that Monica is substantially older than Micah- she just doesn't look it :P.

As for the brains, while we don't know what Sylar does with them (yet, anyway- the writers have said we will find out this season) I just find the idea that he merely looks at them extremely unlikely, especially given that on more than one occasion, he's taken the entire brain away with him.

Plus, the fact that he no longer has access to the powers he had last season, IMO, is a compelling argument that he grafted part of the powered brain onto himself - grafts that were removed during his surgeries, effectively removing the powers.

I could believe that, or that he built some sort of device with bits of brain, much easier than the idea he merely looks at the brain - an idea that is both less supported by what we've seen so far and less narrativley compelling than the alternatives. [/spoiler]

About Candace:

[spoiler]
Sorry, but it appears that the producers and writers have confirmed that she is really dead.  This was actually a last minute change.  She and Sylar were supposed to run around together for 6 episodes, but when the actress who originally played her quit to join the cast of Reaper, the decided to just abruptly put another actress in there, then immediately kill her off.  The suddenness of this change, is probably why it doesn't sit quite right with anybody.
[/spoiler]

EDIT:
Here's the section about it from Beeman's blog.
[spoiler]

QuoteOf course, the original plan was for Missy Peregrym to reprise her role as Candice. Unfortunately for us, Missy has landed a new job as a series regular on the CW's REAPER. And REAPER shoots in Vancouver (where Missy is originally from, and I'm very happy for her because I'm sure she's glad to be back in her hometown.) The writers' original plan was for Candice and Sylar to have a several episode adventure together - but with Missy's lack of availability we decided to tie it off in just one. We really tried to work out a way to have Missy do this episode. First we squeezed the story down to where we felt it could be shot in one day. Then we began working with the REAPER production team trying to find a day she could be made available. Missy was great, she was willing to come back at any time – even a weekend to do the episode. But in the end there were reshoots on the new show and they pulled her dates up. (And truthfully our work was never realistically going to be done in one day.) So we reconceived.

Luckily, Candice's character is one of the easier one's to recast. JJ explained it all with the dialogue "I used to go by Candice. But ever since I dragged you off of Kirby Plaza, police are kind of looking for my old self. So, I went for a new look. What do you think? Too generic?" Once we could wrap our heads around that idea - the rest fell into place.

Rachel Kimsey came in to read for the newly conceived role and we were all really happy. She brought a comedic sexiness to the part that we all really liked. After seeing her dailies and the first cut of the episode, we discussed whether we could conceive of a way to keep her alive in the stories. But that bus had already left the station. So (similar to what happened with "Charlie" in Paul Edwards other episode "Seven Minutes To Midnight" last year) another great actress will be here for just one episode!

[/spoiler]

Quote from: ips on October 16, 2007, 09:58:47 PM

Quote from: bredon7777 on October 16, 2007, 09:12:49 PM
ips-

[spoiler]
Sorry- its been well established that Sylar removes the brains entirely. There were repeated comments in Season 1 about how there were no brains at the crime scenes. 

It's never been established exactly what he DOES do with them, but I think we can pretty much rule out just looking at them. [/spoiler]

don't apologize. your statement doesn't invalidate what i said. so what if he removes it or keeps it in? he probably just looks at it carefully like he takes apart watches. that's really the only premise any of us should be going on... it's the only thing he's ever been shown to do with anything he is trying to understand. the rest of what you guys are going on about is baseless conjecture.

whats the problem with guessing what he does with them?, ando mentioned( first season.. i will check if it was ando for sure) that he eats them- i know its not proof, and from what brendon777 said, why cant we guess he eats them,i have not heard anything about the brains being cut up, taken apart, they never mention what condition the brains are in, that would leave me to believe he does somthing with them, and i have never seen him carrying them,Eating them is what i first thought he did when the show first started,
So its killing you that people are guessing sylar eats them, making up our own continuity, i say keep guessing and keep making up our own continuity... its fun and entertaining and actually interesting to read

It's DEFINITELY not eating.  Notice when he kills Candace--blood on his hands, none around the mouth.  Same after he kills his first victim, actually.

I always figured that he disassembled it somehow, using the information, or even parts of the brain itself, to augment his own brain.

[spoiler]RE: Candace. Hmm. I can deal with changes prompted by scheduling considerations, but I still say they shouldn't have had her die in a stupid way. For one thing, they could have just had her disappear, potentially to play a role later on. Secondly, we never saw her drag Sylar off the plaza, so they could have had him survive some other way. Of course, there may be other parts of that backstory that make it important that Candace saved him,  so I can't be sure about that. But, most importantly, even if she had to be the one to save him (or be with him when he awoke) and she had to die, they should have killed her off in a way where she wasn't a complete rube. I mean, it may have required something more creative than Sylar just bashing her over the head, but I would have hoped that wouldn't be beyond the writers' skills.

As to the continuing question of what Sylar does with the brains, he may have to do something really complicated with them. But that doesn't preclude that the operation is still basically analysis. It doesn't mean that he eats them, but I guess it's possible that his power gives him a very special digestive tract. Even if they go that route (which I don't favor), it would be understandable that they don't make it clear exactly what he does.

While I could believe that whatever power-absorption process he has involves a technique that someone could reverse (surgically or via some other means), I don't like the idea that Sylar is surgically implanting chunks of other people's brains in his head. It's just too medically impossible, nevermind that he never shows any scars or other side-effects of that kind of operation. I also hope it's not a device. For one thing, it would be hard to explain how he had that device available the first time he stole a power...

My guess is still that his power allows him to analyze the brains of his victims and then make alterations to himself that allows him to duplicate their powers. He might have to root around in the brains to do it. It may be that he is analyzing the gross physical structure of their brains, but I get the impression that he is finding an expressed sequence of mutated DNA or something and then expressing that same sequence on his own. To me, that fits in well with the "knowing how things tick" description of his power.

We still can't say how he lost his powers, and it's possible that someone deliberately removed them. Also the theory we've discussed before that he has the same plague or whatever that hit the Haitian seems plausible. That also would set up a situation where to save some other innocent specials, Mohinder ends up saving Sylar. Or, Sylar has to save Mohinder in order to save himself...[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Guy in white coat...maybe Claude? just an idea

Concerning flying dude...uh...flying does not equate invulnerability to pressure and lack of oxygen. And the troposphere is well known as having a distinct lack of both. He should be bleeding from the ears and suffocating at the very least. Also...Peter and flying boy are tied for stupid storyline/stupid person[/spoiler]

stumpy-

[spoiler]
The first time Sylar stole a power, TK, he was in his watch shop- with access to all sorts of mechanical bits and pieces. I have no problem with him quickly knocking up a device that allowed him to access powers.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]The engineer in me is resistant to that sort of stretch. I don't know that Sylar was ever presented as any sort of gadget genius, since he said he spent seven years trying to repair that old German timepiece when Chandra first saw him. He doesn't come across as Reed Richards. And most watch repair shops (I've been in a few) aren't exactly wonderlands of technological resource.

But, aside from the lack of believability of him building it, which I'll admit may be more of an issue for me, there is the fact that we've never seen him use any device or refer to one. Don't forget that he would have had to rebuild it at least twice now, since it was presumably taken from him when HRG caught him and when his wounds were operated on and he wound up with Candace. (Unless, of course, we are to believe it was so small he could have kept it hidden on his person.) And, at that shack where Candace had him, it didn't look like there was much in the way of parts for ultra high tech do-it-yourself projects.

Also, he would be the first person we've seen who needs a special device to use his power.

Anyway, not that it's outside the realm of possibility, it just doesn't appeal to me.[/spoiler]

OK - I know I'm a couple of day late in posting - so this is going to be nothing terribly new or original but

[spoiler]I think it's incredibly cool that the HOT new chick is the Taskmaster!!!  :thumbup:[/spoiler]

An easy explanation would be Sylar has to touch/hold the victim's brain to activate his power (like how Rogue touches skin) which then reorganizes his brain to mimic the person's (like when Mr. Fantastic stretched his brain to use Cerebro in Earth/Universe/Paradise X/whichever).  That's how I envision it.  As a power - unscientific, weird and nasty.

Regarding Sylar and what he does with the brains, If I recall when Sylar was captured by the company, didnt one of the doctors or HRG say that splicing others DNA to his own was causing him to loose him mind?  Or something to that extent. So if that was the deal, he is somehow getiing his victims brains in his system in some way,shape, or form.

As for the above group pic of the white jacket dude next to Hiro's father, here is another pic (more clear) of that jacket that surely isnt Bob's.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/USAgent/heroes-201-four-months-later-titlec.jpg)

I don't read the online comics which in IMHO are NOT canon, because if they were I'm sure they would say at some point each episode that the viewer needs to go to nbc.com to get the "full story" via the comics.  I watch the show with my wife and we normally discuss what's happened and what it means.  I've been reading this thread and thought I'd finally chime in.
[spoiler]Re: Mexitwins
Some have indicated the dislike of the the bit where the brother gets tossed in jail and escapes.  After seeing Monday's episode, I would tend to agree that Derek was a useless character.  The guy in the cell could have easily been Sylar.  However, I do think that the writers used the jail scene to illustrate two things.  The first being that her power doesn't just randomly triggered when Alejandro is not in proximity as suggested on previous occasions.  The scene very much seemed like an homage to the Hulk TV show in which Banner would get slapped around and it would trigger the rage inside releasing his alter ego.  They even did the zoom into her eyes to show the transformation happening.  They confirmed the stress trigger on Monday's episode.  The second thing was that she is not as innocent as she appears.  We actually both commented to each other on how she purposely tried to kill the officers just to "rescue" her brother.  Note that when the officer shoos her away, she notices the wanted poster, and with a smirk on her face she proudly declares that they are killers.  She slyly "warns" the officers to leave her alone, but she knew exactly what would happen if she were to confess to being one of the killers from the poster.  Even if she expected her brother to be able to reverse the condition, it would not be a good act to risk the lives of those people.  I'm actually convinced she fully intended on hurting them.  She does normally plead innocence, so I hope they don't do another dual personality schtick.  I'm also not entirely convinced that Alejandro's power isn't actually killing him.  It seems to hurt or even make him ill each time he does it.
Re: Candace
I'm a bit disappointed that she was killed for real.  The explanation for writing her off does seem a bit overly sugar coated.  I think that she was either killed off while Sylar's still broken so that he would never have her powers OR that Sylar did get her powers but just can't access them yet.
Re: Sylar
I wouldn't put it past the writers of the show to indicate that Sylar did in fact physically modify himself in order to gain powers.  That "ticking" sound may not just be an effect for the viewers, but an actual sound of some clockwork mechanism inside himself.  Perhaps it was damaged when he was stabbed, or perhaps the company did something to it when they were fishing around in his guts.  As for the brains, perhaps he's absorbing them through his hands via osmosis.  It certainly would explain the bloody hands and the disappearing brains.
Re: Big Bad
I'm inclined to think that although Matt's father may appear to Molly as the end all of all nightmare people, he is not in fact this season's big bad.  He may indeed be a bad guy, but not THE bad guy.  I think that several people have the possibility of being this season's archnemisis despite not being the one responsible for the attacks on Mr. Nakamura and Mrs. Petrelli.
1) Maya.  Her power can easily kill those surrounding her.  Perhaps Sylar recovered quickly because he's a special, or perhaps because he was only very briefly affected.  Either way, I'm still suspicious of Maya's misuse of the power last week.  Especially since she is supposedly worried about being around people, but is seriously determined to go to New York, where she just might go all black oil on the populace.
2) Kensei.  His symbol features very prominent in the show.  It's also the symbol being marked on the faces of the people marked for death.  Although seemingly an ok kind of guy, what could happen if he is ripped out of time and the girl he was falling for was stolen from him by his "friend"?
3) Peter.  He IS refusing to learn about his past self.  His past self is the kind, sweet, gentle soul that would never have sneered at the use of TK to cause pain.  That taste of the dark side might be a bit tempting (seeing as he has chosen to hang out with Irish mobsters).  Maybe that little fling with the Irishwoman may end in tragedy, and he loses it.  He IS afterall the most powerful character on the show.  I'm still hoping not, as it rings a bit of Dark Willow.
4) Elle.  Her character description is that of self-serving and possibly insane.  We have yet to meet her so I can't write her off just yet.
[/spoiler]
I know it is popular for people to blame the writers for everything, but you never know how much is really lost when the story finally makes it to final cut.  Perhaps the director tweaks the script for his own purposes, or perhaps the director simply isn't being 100% successful at translating the words to video.  In addition to that, there may be other things that are simply edited out for whatever reasons, which just might be the explanations some of you are wanting.
Sorry for my long post.  I think I've been rambling on. :)

I've been wanting to post this for a week, but just haven't gotten around to it.  I am more and more annoyed by the New Orleans part of the show.  I'm from the Gulf Coast, and....well, I'll put the rest of this in spoilers.  If you don't want to hear me griping or don't want to see possible spoilers, feel free to skip it:

[spoiler]I'm from the coast of Mississippi, a small town that, along with everything to the west of it, was devastated by Katrina.  However, by the way the media speaks of the storm, you'd never know that New Orleans wasn't the only place hit.  What?  The hurricane didn't just slam N.O.?  That's right, we were all hit hard, and a lot of places were hit a lot worse or at least just as bad, as N.O.  I remember,  I was at school in Alabama when the storm hit, and I watched the news trying to hear ANYTHING about my town, my family, and my friends.  In stead, we got nothing but report after report of N.O.! 

Ugh, well, that aside, the fact that they set a storyline in N.O. is frustrating for a lot of reasons. 

1.)  N.O. is now in pretty good shape, the government POURED money into it (because it was the center of attention) and rebuilding has sped along.  Meanwhile, in Mississippi, the mile-to-three-miles inland from the beach that were scoured clean by Katrina are still empty.  There is no rebuilding going on.  You want to see hardship post-Katrina, look to the East.

2.)  It's very inaccurate.  Yeah, the visuals may be alright, but nothing else about it.  There are TONS of jobs on the Gulf Coast right now, anyone who wants to work can, because there is more work than people willing to work.  Tons of people are still getting government money, and don't care to have to WORK for their money.  Heck, Walmart was paying $10 an hour a few months ago in my hometown.  If they were paying that much in Illinois....well, anyway, the real problem is housing.  If they wanted to give them a problem, that could have been it, because there are still far too few houses and apartments. 

3.)  It just feels like a cheap attempt to get ratings with a story of REAL suffering.  Ohh, you know what will get us ratings?  We'll do a show in New Orleans, 'cause people remember that they got hit by a hurricane.

4.)  The accents........ughhhh....painful.[/spoiler]

Some comments about tonight's episode:

[spoiler]
So it seems the child might be Matt's after all.  We don't know for sure though.

And it also seems that Matt, and his dad, are full telepaths rather than just mind readers.

Now we know what Niki wants to be cured of.  While it seemed to me that Jessica is already gone, I guess I can buy that.

Well, lookee who Mohinder is being sent to.

Anyway, looking forward to HRG and the Hatian next week.  That can't help but being cool.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
I'm glad Taskmistress seems to be embracing her power - I'm getting sick of people who discover they've got super-powers and then weep about it.  Mohinder showing up right then must seem extremely unlikely to her though, I mean, she just learns that she has powers, and then a guy shows up at her door and says, "I'm the super-power explaining man going door to door.  Able to do anything unusual lately?"  It's also nice to get confirmation that her power is not television/technologically related; I enjoy being right.

Add me to the group that finds Peter and Hiro's storylines boring.  They're two of my favourite characters, but clearly the show-runners have decided the two most powerful heroes needed a time out until the story needs them later in the season.

Mohinder once again wins the dumbest smart guy award, this week by taking Molly right to the people they rescued her from last season.  Good job Mohinder!

My favourite stuff this week was with Matt and Nathan.  Matt's power begins to make a leap forward, and we see just how far it can potentially go in his father.  These two characters aren't normally my favourite, but they are the ones actually out doing something that seems to matter, and the show could use more of that right now.
[/spoiler]

A few thoughts:

[spoiler]
There were two good things about this episode: no West, and Matt and Nathan's storyline.  The last one was mainly because of its good quality overall (that scene where Matt and Nathan were fighting each other was just excellent), but partly because it was the only storyline in which something actually happened.  And I thought this show was slow moving last season.

Hiro and HRG spent this episode just preparing to do something.  Monica practiced a little, then met Mohinder.  Those didn't even set up next episode, they did nothing, though Monica's storyline was kind of enjoyable.  Peter's storyline wouldn't be as bad if it didn't have so many false starts.  He finally opens the box, but doesn't use it to find his identity, even though a quick google search on his name would probably find something (not that he knows that, but it can't hurt to try).  Elle spends the episode looking for him, then gives up at the end for no real reason.  It tried its best at a cliffhanger ending, but it just didn't work.

And worst of all, the show actually reaches back into last season, grabs Niki's Jessica storyline and drags it out into the second season.  That storyline was done, over with.  It has even less of a reason to be here than Sylar.  How hard can it be to come up with a storyline for Niki?

I like that there was a slight suggestion that maybe what we saw in Five Years Gone hasn't been retconned away, but really there is no reason for Janice to lie to Matt about that.  The way the vision of Janice said he read her mind but he insisted he didn't made me think it's just a nightmare.  But I guess it could go either way.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Finally, we're going somewhere! I feel so special now!

Seriously though, it was nice to see Monica's powers expounded upon, and I'm glad to see that they didn't have Micah using his powers to manipulate her like some of you suggested. I have a few theories on the comic actually... the company likely has copies of anything Isaac's ever done, and if the comic character actually is Monica, it would explain how they found her so fast. If it is the future though... it would be interesting to see someone in spandex.

Matt and Nathan's bit was fantastic, yet despite how well they handled the dad, I'm dissapointed that they've still made him a baddie. I understand that they had to do something to keep him from giving away all the details about the original heroes, but meh.

Peter... we've started moving on that one, which is something at least. That whole "I'm going to do absolutely nothing" bit was irritating, and I'm glad the writers got it out of their systems.

And once again, Hiro does nothing at all. I'm sorry, I like Hiro, but it's about time he teamed up with some of the other heroes and started doing things.

and Conduit, about the whole future thing... I honestly don't think they ever stopped moving towards it it. Think about it- DL is now dead; Mohinder, Parkman and Nathan are all working together; Peter and Hiro are each on darker paths; Claire is already in hiding; and Sylar has absorbed Candice's ability(despite not being able to use it as of yet). They never really stopped the bomb eithor- Peter's still alive, with no real memory of how to control his abilities. All it would take would be something to make Ted's powers emerge, and he wouldn't be able to stop himself.[/spoiler]

Okay, we got about 14 minutes of story in this episode. I think we are back into the holding pattern. This wasn't all bad by any means, but the overall pacing is pathetic. If a character shows up with soporific powers, how will we even notice? :P Yeesh.

[spoiler]
First, Tomato, I like your notion that maybe the impending apocalypse that motivated last season's arcs is still progressing. They can't get away with doing just that by itself, but it's a workable premise.

Either way, I am expecting an arc at some point that explains that the older specials at one point thought they were in a similar position to where the rest of our heroes were last season. Having to band together to use their powers to save the world, etc.

PS: Did we ever get anything definitive last season about  Sylar's dad? Just wondering...

BTW: "...I'm glad to see that they didn't have Micah using his powers to manipulate her like some of you suggested." Whuh? I guess I missed that part of the thread...

Are we supposed to believe that Nikki just reverted to where she was last season? I mean, come on! I am tempted to think her whole scene was a pre-arranged setup by Bob and the company to convince Mohinder that the company actually does some good. Though, I guess Parkman Sr. or whoever could be messing with her head in order to trigger her multiple personality disorder.

I am hoping Hiro's' arc gets more interesting. It's almost fast-forward-worthy at this point.

Peter's arc is still dead in the water. Assuming that he and Caitlin are actually about to do something besides lay about and snog (which we still don't know that they will), then he is still just now one step past where he was at the end of the season opener. (http://home.graffiti.net/stumpyanker:graffiti.net/emoticons/sleep1.gif)

All that having been said, I liked the NOLA arc. And, count me among those relieved that Monica was cool with having her powers. The next time someone discovers that they can do something very cool and they respond by going into an oh-poor-me whining jag, I just want to scream.

I also liked the Matt and Nathan arc. That is actually moving along. FWIW, we have no idea that Matt and Parkman Sr. have the same powers. At all. The only one saying that was Parkman Sr., and his credibility is zero. As far as we know, Matt might have tried to look into his head and seen a nightmare Parkman Sr. had planted there for Matt to see. The ability to project nightmares is obviously a mental power of some sort, but we don't know that he can or ever could read minds and we have no idea that Matt will ever get the nightmare ability.

Where were HRG and the Haitian when Mohinder called? I mean, not where were they really, since it looked like they were walking across a CGI backdrop, but was it supposed to be of a city in Europe or maybe Quebec? I didn't recognize it.

Anyway, so HRG is lying to Mohinder about what he is up to. Interesting.

And, yeah, Mohinder is playing the doofus again, taking Molly to the company. Whatever the opposite of an idiot savant is, he's it.

I am curious to see who Elle's father is. Too bad she's evil, though.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 22, 2007, 10:33:45 PM
Where were HRG and the Haitian when Mohinder called? I mean, not where were they really, since it looked like they were walking across a CGI backdrop, but was it supposed to be of a city in Europe or maybe Quebec? I didn't recognize it.

They made a reference last episode that the Haitian tracked down another of Isaac's paintings in Odessa...Ukraine.  At least I'm pretty sure it was the Ukraine, since a quick wikipedia search only gave me that Odessa in Europe. 

Quote from: stumpy on October 22, 2007, 10:33:45 PM
And, yeah, Mohinder is playing the doofus again, taking Molly to the company. Whatever the opposite of an idiot savant is, he's it.

I believe we call that a moron :P

Quote from: stumpy on October 22, 2007, 10:33:45 PM
I am curious to see who Elle's father is. Too bad she's evil, though.

I'm so glad she's evil.  That's exactly what we need at this point in the season, someone who will hopefully be adding a bit of conflict and interest to this coma-inducing storyline. 

[/spoiler]

I'd write more, but I'd be late for class then.  Maybe later.

[spoiler]

Quote from: Adamence on October 23, 2007, 04:52:53 AMThey made a reference last episode that the Haitian tracked down another of Isaac's paintings in Odessa...Ukraine.  At least I'm pretty sure it was the Ukraine, since a quick wikipedia search only gave me that Odessa in Europe.

Thanks. Odessa is one of those town names like Springfield; I know of several in the U.S. and Canada, though the one shown looked European. I don't know much about the architecture in the Ukraine, so I can't tell by the background. It would have been nice if there had been some writing, a more famous landmark, or something similar to give us a hint.

Quote from: Adamence on October 23, 2007, 04:52:53 AMI believe we call that a moron :P

Ha. That's a pretty good word for Mohinder at the moment. What I meant was that idiot savants are known for having barely functional abilities in most day-to-day situations but they are very gifted in one or two specialty areas. Mohinder is kind of the compliment of that. If you were to meet him in a day-to-day situation, you might think he was very bright, but when it comes to judging dangerous people and situations, he is barely functional.

Quote from: Adamence on October 23, 2007, 04:52:53 AMI'm so glad she's evil.  That's exactly what we need at this point in the season, someone who will hopefully be adding a bit of conflict and interest to this coma-inducing storyline.

I don't mind that Elle is evil, per se. A well-played evil character can really make a show interesting, define it even. But, wicked people in this show tend to have short-lived roles, aside from Sylar. I just hope she isn't killed off too soon.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 23, 2007, 06:17:42 AM
I don't mind that Elle is evil, per se. A well-played evil character can really make a show interesting, define it even. But, wicked people in this show tend to have short-lived roles, aside from Sylar. I just hope she isn't killed off too soon.

You're right about them killing off people too much, not just the wicked ones.  But from what I read a few months ago, she was supposed to be in at least 13 episodes, so here's hoping they don't kill her off. 

Quote from: stumpy on October 23, 2007, 06:17:42 AM
Ha. That's a pretty good word for Mohinder at the moment. What I meant was that idiot savants are known for having barely functional abilities in most day-to-day situations but they are very gifted in one or two specialty areas. Mohinder is kind of the compliment of that. If you were to meet him in a day-to-day situation, you might think he was very bright, but when it comes to judging dangerous people and situations, he is barely functional.

He definitely seems to be far too trusting, especially of a dangerous organization that spied on him and routinely goes around abducting and harming people.  I believe he needs to get a clue that the company ain't so great.  The company definitely needs him more than he needs them.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 22, 2007, 10:33:45 PM
I also liked the Matt and Nathan arc. That is actually moving along. FWIW, we have no idea that Matt and Parkman Sr. have the same powers. At all. The only one saying that was Parkman Sr., and his credibility is zero. As far as we know, Matt might have tried to look into his head and seen a nightmare Parkman Sr. had planted there for Matt to see. The ability to project nightmares is obviously a mental power of some sort, but we don't know that he can or ever could read minds and we have no idea that Matt will ever get the nightmare ability.

Whether Matt will ever get the nightmare ability or not (you're right, we only have the testimony of his jerky father for it) he did manage to mentally broadcast, and break
the illusion, which is a step up from just reading other people's thoughts.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
Tomato, when I said the events of Five Years Gone, I was just referring to the scene where we learned that Janice's kid is named after Matt, sends him crayon drawings of himself and mommy from hiding, and has a power.  As to the rest of the events of that  timeline, I seriously doubt that they're still going to happen.  One of, if not the most important part of it was how Nathan, as the new congressman from New York, used the aftermath of the explosion to rally the public, institute his policies, and eventually get himself (or Sylar in his place, depending on when Sylar took his identity) elected president.  Nathan's pretty much given up on politics now, and even if he decides to get back into it (and start listening to his mom again), there won't be another congressional election for 2 years.  And after that, he'll have to wait another 4 years if he wants to become president.

The similar events you listed are just coincidences.  Matt, Mohinder, and Nathan aren't with the government, and they're working with HRG too.  Claire isn't hiding from the government, but from the Company.  And DL being dead is a huge change from the FYG timeline.  Sylar had DL's phasing power, and if he can't get Eden's power after she shot herself in the brain, then he can't get DL's power after his brain has gone through months of decay.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Story-wise, I didn't mind Mohinder taking Molly to the Company so much.  He explained his reasons - she's a person with a Power, and went into her current state from mental contact with another Power.  This is not a field of medicine that any conventional hospital would have experience with.  Mohinder clearly does not want to take chances when it comes to protecting Molly - hence, the desire to take her to the institution most likely to know how to keep her from dying.

Granted, this puts Molly in all sorts of other danger.  But it has the best chance of keeping Molly alive.  With Mohinder acting as a de facto parent to Molly, I can excuse certain lapses in judgment.  Parents often have overprotective urges when it comes to their kids.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: Conduit on October 23, 2007, 10:57:52 AM
Tomato, when I said the events of Five Years Gone, I was just referring to the scene where we learned that Janice's kid is named after Matt, sends him crayon drawings of himself and mommy from hiding, and has a power.  As to the rest of the events of that  timeline, I seriously doubt that they're still going to happen.  One of, if not the most important part of it was how Nathan, as the new congressman from New York, used the aftermath of the explosion to rally the public, institute his policies, and eventually get himself (or Sylar in his place, depending on when Sylar took his identity) elected president.  Nathan's pretty much given up on politics now, and even if he decides to get back into it (and start listening to his mom again), there won't be another congressional election for 2 years.  And after that, he'll have to wait another 4 years if he wants to become president.

The similar events you listed are just coincidences.  Matt, Mohinder, and Nathan aren't with the government, and they're working with HRG too.  Claire isn't hiding from the government, but from the Company.  And DL being dead is a huge change from the FYG timeline.  Sylar had DL's phasing power, and if he can't get Eden's power after she shot herself in the brain, then he can't get DL's power after his brain has gone through months of decay.

Addressing each point individually:

For now Nathan might have given up on it, but if something happens to make him think he can save the world within the government, or if Sylar does take him over and goes into politics himself? Matt would likely be brought into it since he's a cop anyway, and Mohinder is idiotic enough to believe him.

I don't recall the episode saying specifically that DL died at Sylar's hands (though I admit I'm running on memory), so he could very well have gotten the power elsewhere. Healing has already repeated, as has flight, it's not illogical to assume that we'll see another person with Phasing abilities at some point.

As I recall, the company and government merged if only in purpose because Sylar-Nathan was looking for super-powered individuals. Regardless though, my point is that she's being prepared for spending a lifetime running from enemies.

Finally though, and I think this might be what you're missing- I didn't nescessarily mean that it had to be 100% exact. Whether they avoided that fate or not, Hiro changed the timeline, so there's bound to be some differences. I'm just pointing out that there have been an awful lot of ties to "Five Years Gone", and I happen to go by the old addage "When a coincidence repeats itself time and time again, it ceases to be a coincidence" They might not be going exactly in that direction, but we aren't moving further away from that future eithor.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]In regards to Matt and his father:  I agree there isn't definitive evidence that the father shares Matt's power (or vice versa as genetics usually go), but I think the father's smug sense of satisfaction as he left Matt and Nathan was pretty strong proof that HE (not anyone else) had trapped them.

On another, semi-related note, did anyone else get an inkling that Candance might be a half-sister to Matt?  I immediately thought of her when Matt's father (allegedly) created the illusion to trap Matt and Nathan.  And seeming that Matt's father left when Matt was young, there was plenty of time for him to father another super powered child.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: Tomato on October 23, 2007, 11:41:57 AM
Addressing each point individually:

For now Nathan might have given up on it, but if something happens to make him think he can save the world within the government, or if Sylar does take him over and goes into politics himself? Matt would likely be brought into it since he's a cop anyway, and Mohinder is idiotic enough to believe him.

I don't recall the episode saying specifically that DL died at Sylar's hands (though I admit I'm running on memory), so he could very well have gotten the power elsewhere. Healing has already repeated, as has flight, it's not illogical to assume that we'll see another person with Phasing abilities at some point.

As I recall, the company and government merged if only in purpose because Sylar-Nathan was looking for super-powered individuals. Regardless though, my point is that she's being prepared for spending a lifetime running from enemies.

Finally though, and I think this might be what you're missing- I didn't nescessarily mean that it had to be 100% exact. Whether they avoided that fate or not, Hiro changed the timeline, so there's bound to be some differences. I'm just pointing out that there have been an awful lot of ties to "Five Years Gone", and I happen to go by the old addage "When a coincidence repeats itself time and time again, it ceases to be a coincidence" They might not be going exactly in that direction, but we aren't moving further away from that future eithor.

Regardless of whether or not Nathan goes back into politics, he simply cannot get elected to Congress until 2008.  Who knows what will have happened by then?  And if he wants to become president, he'll have to wait another 4 years (there's no way he could get elected president directly from where he is now).  If nothing else, that'll delay things a lot.

In FYG, Hiro said that he brought DL into Bennet so he could hide him.  Bennet later said that because of a deal with Matt Parkman, he turns the "dangerous" people brought to him over to Homeland Security.  We later see Sylar use DL's power.  The implication is that DL was considered dangerous, and that Sylar got him from Homeland Security.  The writers confirmed this sequence of events in an interview.

Hiro also said that he brought Candice into Bennet, and Sylar definitely took her power (he says so himself), so she was turned over to Homeland Security.  The fact that Candice was being hunted by the government is a pretty clear indicator that Homeland Security and the Company were not cooperating at all.  They had a similar aim, but I'd say that there is a big difference between a secret criminal organization and a law enforcement agency.  The government has a lot more people and resources, and it doesn't have to operate in the shadows (remember the scene in 0.07% where HRG, Matt and Ted have lunch at the Burnt Toast Diner after their escape and HRG says that the Company won't try to capture them in a public place).

There may be a few specific things that are similar to the FYG timeline, with certain characters in similar situations, moving towards a similar personality, and cooperating with the same people, but I think the broad, worldwide strokes of a public that knows about, hates and fears specials and the government, led by Nathan/Sylar rounding them up, are very unlikely to happen.

Quote from: Camma on October 23, 2007, 12:44:27 PM
In regards to Matt and his father:  I agree there isn't definitive evidence that the father shares Matt's power (or vice versa as genetics usually go), but I think the father's smug sense of satisfaction as he left Matt and Nathan was pretty strong proof that HE (not anyone else) had trapped them.

On another, semi-related note, did anyone else get an inkling that Candance might be a half-sister to Matt?  I immediately thought of her when Matt's father (allegedly) created the illusion to trap Matt and Nathan.  And seeming that Matt's father left when Matt was young, there was plenty of time for him to father another super powered child

We've seen that the specific type of power that a person has has nothing to do with the specific type of power that their relatives have.  Besides, there's a big difference between Matt's dad and Candice's power.  Matt's dad didn't seem to create a specific illusion, just bring their greatest fears out, and he didn't need to actively maintain it, as it held after he left.
[/spoiler]

About Matt's dad:

[spoiler]I'm positive that he was telling the truth when he said they have the same power.  The best evidence is the scene where Matt tries to read his mind.  We got the same type of feedback as when Peter and Matt were both using Matt's powers to read each other's mind.  Since this appears to only result from two mind readers reading each other, we can assume, for now, at least, that Mr. Parkman was telling the truth.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I re-watched that scene before I posted. It wasn't really like the scene when Matt meets Peter. There were no echoed thoughts or anything. If they were trying to show the same effect, they didn't.

That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Parkman Sr can tell when people are mentally latching on to him somehow, as he can with Molly's clairvoyance, and give them some sort of feedback that is part of his nightmare power. All we saw in last night's scene was Matt reacting negatively to trying to get into his father's head and then Matt (not his father) asked if he could read minds, too. Parkman Sr latched onto that, only nodding his head, and then quickly claimed that he and Matt were not so different and pleaded for Matt to remove the handcuffs. I took that as an manipulation ploy to gain sympathy from Matt.

It's possible that Parkman Sr can read minds, but we didn't see him do it in that scene.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
I also rewatched that scene, and it was nothing like what happened when Peter and Matt had their little telepathic feedback session. 

In that scene, Matt started to read Peter's mind, we had the usual telepathy effects, then scattered thoughts were heard.  Matt and Peter's thought got lost in a scrambled mix, then we heard the telepathy effects shriek a few times, Matt and Peter kind of jerked their heads a bit, then it went away as they stopped.

When Matt tried to read his dad's mind, we heard the telepathy effects for a few seconds, then a rumbling sound built up and what sounded like some sort of mental blast lashed out at Matt, causing him to recoil in pain.  At no point did we hear any thoughts.
[/spoiler]

While I haven't seen the last episode or maybe two, I have to say I'm done with this show.  Cool concept aside, semi-truck size plot holes and inconsistent chracterization (at best - often simply absent) has pretty much turned me off of this show.  Peter's story is crap, Maja and Alejandro are on pace to hit New York for the season finale, Parkman is a wanker, Mohinder is a moron, Claire has become the pure Platonic form of a teenager and I'm left only basically giving a damn about HRG and Hiro.  Maybe if the writers' get their poop all in one pile I might be back, but for now I'm left with a heaping serving of "meh."  And I have better things to do than follow meh around.

I may be on the same road. It was sort of an effort to psych up to watch the show Monday. I hate to give up on the concept, but, ultimately, what I enjoy most about the show is discussing it here after. And that is worth enjoying, but I don't know if it is really any recommendation for the show. There are a couple segments every week that I generally enjoy, but I that isn't most of the show and it probably isn't worth getting strung along for a whole season...

I keep going on the hope that they'll catch their stride again and start picking up the pace. *shrug*

While I agree on the generally poor nature of this season so far, I take comfort from the fact that Season 2 is supposed to contain Volumes II AND III of Heroes.  So I'm hoping that all this nonsense and boneheaded decisions get wrapped up soon and Volume III allows a fresh start and a return to the higher quality of season one.

Till then I'll keep watching because Kristen Bell is hot, and I'm shallow :D. 

Amen to that! Veronica Mars as a super vixen is pretty damn cool.

But seriously guys, re: the plot-holes and dumb characters ... Season 1 was absolutely riddled with them. This is show is just good-looking, lightweight, fluffy entertainment for people too impatient to enjoy the sloooowly unravelling mystery of Lost.

Take it on face value and enjoy or try and dig deeper and be disappointed (or just buy Carnivale on DVD).

Never liked lost...never will

I feel the show is going downhill...but i have several friends i game with that come over and watch the show, i basicly dont have a choice lol, but i will watch it and have fun with the parts that are good, and there are good parts, its just the same formula will not work as it did with season one, there shoulld be a larger stable of characters(that stay together planning and such) that the show revolves around and less seperate stories to distract from the plot(s)

Quote from: ips on October 26, 2007, 06:04:16 AM
after thinking about it, i honestly feel like i enjoyed the show last year more, before i started following this thread.

the posters in here really tend to pick apart the episodes and nitpick every little nuance and it's contributing to my dislike of the show because it makes me overly critical of it. last year i was just accepting it as a fun piece of entertainment like jakew suggests. i think i'll see how that goes for a while.

Wow man, you took the exact words right out of my mouth!   I used to follow the show on a weekly basis and enjoyed it very much anticipating on what will come next week, then I started following this thread and looking at the threads on the official site, and you are right, there are soo many "fans" that pick apart every single minute aspect of the show as if they know how to write a better show.   Who cares if Claire was shown wearing earings in a scene when her healing power should heal her earring holes........jeeeze wizzz, its a make believe fantasy show.

end rant, and I'll still follow all the threads........

I don't mean to be flippant, but if y'all dislike the threads so much, you don't really have to read them, right?  I mean, if they interfere with your enjoyment of the show, just stop visiting this thread.  I agree that people here over analyze, but that's fan nature.  It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show any.

Maybe so, but since I started this particular thread, I am going to ask that you all kindly try to restrict this thread from now on to observing and theorizing and keep the complaints about what you don't like and the nit-picking out of it form now on.  Nothing's stopping you from making your own thread, and if this helps some folks enjoy the show more, than it's worth it.

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 26, 2007, 11:17:19 PM
Maybe so, but since I started this particular thread, I am going to ask that you all kindly try to restrict this thread from now on to observing and theorizing and keep the complaints about what you don't like and the nit-picking out of it form now on.  Nothing's stopping you from making your own thread, and if this helps some folks enjoy the show more, than it's worth it.

Agreed.  Although forum threads are kind of like children growing up - despite what you might hope and plan for them they'll go off and do what ever they want and all you can do is hope for the best. ;)

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 26, 2007, 11:17:19 PMNothing's stopping you from making your own thread, and if this helps some folks enjoy the show more, than it's worth it.

I also think Cat's right: It would be worth it to start a more open thread for people to enjoy. Obviously, many people wouldn't bother posting in a thread where details and weaknesses in the show couldn't be discussed, but such things bother other people, so another thread is in order.

Perhaps Monday will be time to start an "Open Heroes Discussion" thread for discussion of all aspects of the show and episodes, with the usual appreciation for thoughtful observations, but no restriction that they be uniformly positive. Comments and speculation concerning both the cool stuff and also the show's shortcomings would be welcome.

I think the creating a new thread idea is fair.  That'll allow the details and weaknesses to be discussed without depressing everyone else.  And even the worst of the episodes have had some good parts, so I'll still have some to talk about here.

On another note:

[spoiler]
I haven't watched it myself, but apparently, in the online cast commentary for the last episode, it was confirmed that Matt's dad was lying about having the same power as Matt.
[/spoiler]

So lets make an extra thread, so people dont see negative coments? why make more threads when all i have ever heard from sites was not to duplicate threads to save space?

I wonder when every thread will have a negative thread counterpart, i find it funny and somewhat sad,but hey to each his own

A couple of predictions and observations:

[spoiler]-Since we know that future Matt Parkman could scan people's memories, we know he can get stronger.  Perhaps a large part of his encounters with his father are about him discovering his own hidden potential.

-Elle's father is probably Kensei.

-I believe that Kaito was killed by Nathan, but he could have been controlled by Maury Parkman to do so and not remembered it.

-Maury Parkman probably was in control of Niki when she attacked Bob.  That would explain why she ignored Mohinder and went for Bob.  Also, she didn't seem like the Jessica character to me.  Jessica usually likes to make some sort of speech before killing her victims.

-Elle's big weakness is obviously water.  This will come back to bite her in a big way later.

-Sylar will kill Alejandro and become Maya's new companion.  It will probably be the first power he is able to use since last season.

-Bennett will not be killed like in painting 8/8.  It will probably be Sylar using Candice's power instead.[/spoiler]

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AMA couple of predictions and observations:

I thought some of these were pretty good, but I didn't see where all of them are coming from.

[spoiler]

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AM-Since we know that future Matt Parkman could scan people's memories, we know he can get stronger.  Perhaps a large part of his encounters with his father are about him discovering his own hidden potential.

Do we know that? Is that in the comic?

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AM-Maury Parkman probably was in control of Niki when she attacked Bob.  That would explain why she ignored Mohinder and went for Bob.  Also, she didn't seem like the Jessica character to me.  Jessica usually likes to make some sort of speech before killing her victims.

Maybe, but I didn't see any indication that Nikki was under any outside control in that scene. She wasn't later confused about who she had been fighting or anything.

I am sticking to me earlier theory that Nikki was acting on Bob's directions in that scene. That is, his "something in return" mentioned when she came to him was that she would fake an attack on him and then refuse Mohinder's help of escape once she was caught, to convince Mohinder that The Company does do some good and she is there voluntarily and to be helped. The Company knows that Mohinder is working against them and wants to cast doubt on his conviction to bring them down, possibly so that he will trust them with Molly and possibly so that he will slip up and reveal HRG to them.

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AM-Elle's big weakness is obviously water.  This will come back to bite her in a big way later.

What proves that she has a weakness and that it is water?

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AM-Sylar will kill Alejandro and become Maya's new companion.  It will probably be the first power he is able to use since last season.

He would be smarter to kill Maya first, since if he fails to acquire her power, he will have at least eliminated a danger to himself. But, it wouldn't surprise me if he kills Alejandro first. His murders haven't always been the smartest moves and I have the feeling the show wants to keep Maya around for longer.

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AM-Bennett will not be killed like in painting 8/8.  It will probably be Sylar using Candice's power instead.

Could be. However they do it, I don't believe HRG will be dead anytime soon.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 29, 2007, 09:56:00 AM

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AM-Since we know that future Matt Parkman could scan people's memories, we know he can get stronger.  Perhaps a large part of his encounters with his father are about him discovering his own hidden potential.

Do we know that? Is that in the comic?

He says that Hiro has no memory of the last 5 years, but he could easily have just asked Hiro about the last 5 years and listened to his thoughts.  He was also able to read Hiro's thoughts when he couldn't understand thoughts in another language in Company Man, but he had plenty of time to learn Japanese over the 5 years.  It wouldn't surprise me if he tried to learn as many languages as he could in order to avoid that problem.  So there's no clear evidence that he can dig any deeper into people's minds in FYG.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: stumpy on October 29, 2007, 09:56:00 AM

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AMA couple of predictions and observations:

I thought some of these were pretty good, but I didn't see where all of them are coming from.

[spoiler]

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AM-Since we know that future Matt Parkman could scan people's memories, we know he can get stronger.  Perhaps a large part of his encounters with his father are about him discovering his own hidden potential.

Do we know that? Is that in the comic?

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AM-Maury Parkman probably was in control of Niki when she attacked Bob.  That would explain why she ignored Mohinder and went for Bob.  Also, she didn't seem like the Jessica character to me.  Jessica usually likes to make some sort of speech before killing her victims.

Maybe, but I didn't see any indication that Nikki was under any outside control in that scene. She wasn't later confused about who she had been fighting or anything.

I am sticking to me earlier theory that Nikki was acting on Bob's directions in that scene. That is, his "something in return" mentioned when she came to him was that she would fake an attack on him and then refuse Mohinder's help of escape once she was caught, to convince Mohinder that The Company does do some good and she is there voluntarily and to be helped. The Company knows that Mohinder is working against them and wants to cast doubt on his conviction to bring them down, possibly so that he will trust them with Molly and possibly so that he will slip up and reveal HRG to them.

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AM-Elle's big weakness is obviously water.  This will come back to bite her in a big way later.

What proves that she has a weakness and that it is water?

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AM-Sylar will kill Alejandro and become Maya's new companion.  It will probably be the first power he is able to use since last season.

He would be smarter to kill Maya first, since if he fails to acquire her power, he will have at least eliminated a danger to himself. But, it wouldn't surprise me if he kills Alejandro first. His murders haven't always been the smartest moves and I have the feeling the show wants to keep Maya around for longer.

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 09:13:52 AM-Bennett will not be killed like in painting 8/8.  It will probably be Sylar using Candice's power instead.

Could be. However they do it, I don't believe HRG will be dead anytime soon.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]1) It was my understanding that Matt Parkman in the future was scanning Hiro's mind for memories.  Like Conduit said, though, there could be other reasons for this.

2) Elle's powers are electical control.  When she was sitting in the car talking with her father, she said she didn't like the weather.  Sure that could mean nothing, but given the show's history, I think she would have seriously hurt herself and others had she gotten out of the car.[/spoiler]

QuoteSo lets make an extra thread, so people dont see negative coments? why make more threads when all i have ever heard from sites was not to duplicate threads to save space?

I wonder when every thread will have a negative thread counterpart, i find it funny and somewhat sad,but hey to each his own

This is a special case.  People are losing their enjoyment from the show because of the all the negativity. I can't see how anyone who cares about other people can't see that maybe this is a time to make an exception.

Things that I liked:

[spoiler]
HRG is awesome.  Every part of his storyline this week was amazing.  Him killing the guy pushed him a bit more towards the evil side, but I definitely don't want him to lose his edge.

Mohinder's storyline was good too.

I loved when Kensei got stabbed with a sword and his "Yeah, that's so unfair" line.  That was so cool.  There was some pretty good acting from him at the end.

Some of the plots are finally starting to move.  The future storyline has definite potential, and the next episode promo sent chills down my spine.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: ips on October 29, 2007, 07:47:37 PM
i agree that parkman sr is controlling jessica. i suspect that is why niki sought help. she probably started to experience blackouts again and assumed jessica was resurfacing when infact it was parkman sr remote controlling her.

I must say, I definitely don't see this.  While it would certainly explain things, I just don't see why he would really be doing it, and how he's even is aware of Niki/Jessica.  I just don't really see it, but I could definitely see him controlling Nathan, if his power even allows that.

Quote from: Conduit on October 29, 2007, 07:33:29 PM
I loved when Kensei got stabbed with a sword and his "Yeah, that's so unfair" line.  That was so cool.

Definitely loved that line.  Shows how much he loves and enjoys his power, his arrogance showing off a bit since he knows he's godlike.  I noticed he didn't really seem to be terribly pained by it, and healed extremely quickly, without even falling down. 

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on October 29, 2007, 01:58:11 PM
2) Elle's powers are electical control.  When she was sitting in the car talking with her father, she said she didn't like the weather.  Sure that could mean nothing, but given the show's history, I think she would have seriously hurt herself and others had she gotten out of the car.

Elle definitely seems like someone who likes to be in control, and always wants to be in control.  I could definitely see water being a problem for her, maybe not necessarily because she would hurt herself or something else unintentionally, but because water everywhere would just make it harder for her to control her power. 

And something else I noticed about The Haitian.  From what HRG said, The Haitian can't just probe people's memories, or else they would've just grabbed the info they wanted, so if he wants to wipe someone's mind, he has to know what it is he needs to wipe, and can't just search through and wipe what he wants.  So earlier in the season, Mohinder must've willingly given him the knowledge he needed to find Bennett. 
[/spoiler]

The storylines finally moved quite a bit, and Peter's joins the main storyline.  We also finally get a glimpse of just what it is they all need to stop.  Some thoughts, storyline by storyline.

[spoiler]
Claire:
Didn't enjoy this one as much as the others, but she is definitely going to expose her family at this rate.  Sure the other cheerleader won't get anyone to believe her, but if word of her story gets out enough, the Company WILL believe it.  I also wonder if West himself is, or will end up being, an agent of the Company.  Probably not yet, but he seems the type.

Mohinder

He finally takes a stand.  A risky one, I might add.  Still, I wouldn't expect him to do anything else.  I like Niki being partnered with him, as it brings her right into the main storyline.  Or should I say I like Jessica being partnered with her.

So he's my theory about her:  The Company did something to her to make her think Jessica was coming back, then, when she went to them for help, they brought her back.  That was Niki trying to escape, not Jessica, and it is Jessica now in control.  Could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Hiro

May not be part of the main story yet, but still a lot of fun.  He finally gets the girl, only to be betrayed by Takensi.  I was surprised by this, but definitely not shocked.

Maya and Sylar

Maya turns to the darkside, and Sylar is trying to turn her into his pet in case he never has powers again.  And is doing pretty well with that so far, I might add.

Peter

Peter, in one sudden turn of evens, is now right in the middle of the main story.  He also finally time travels!  He's frozen time, but he's never actually time traveled before.  Since Hiro's a bit tied up at the moment (literally) this works quite well, and we now see that poor New York is about to be devastated yet again.

My theory--the Chanti virus does jumpto normal humans, thanks to the Company's experiments in New York--forced the evacuation.  We may find out next episode that it has spread far beyond New York.
[/spoiler]

Ok to all those people who believe Jessica is being controlled:

[spoiler]I honestly thought that when DL died in the first season he woke Nikki up to reality by saying she was the stronger sister.
In my opinion if Nikki is dominant she should have control over both herself and Jessica. The only time I think she would ever let Jessica out is If she didn't have the heart to kill someone or If she didn't want to deal with any emotions or anything...like to lock herself away while Jessica has to deal with the real world.[/spoiler]


Maya and Alejandro:
[spoiler]I don't think it matters what order in which they die....If that is possible.
The two of them would never willingly separate from each other.
They are twins and Maya knows that Alejandro has to be with her just in case.

So if they are together.....
1. Sylar starts to kill Maya and *wham* her power kills him.
2. Sylar starts to kill Alejandro and then *wham* Maya's power kills him.

The only way either of them could die is If they were separated or knocked out.[/spoiler]

Also:

[spoiler]I liked how Maya's power is developing.
I liked the whole Mohinder scene.
Did anyone think that "Nikki" at the end was acting wayyyyyy more like Jessica???[/spoiler]

Prediction:
[spoiler]The vaccine Bob is trying to make will become deadly and will cross over and kill the majority of the population......the 93%.[/spoiler]

I've taken the liberty of creating that open discussion thread we talked about earlier.  It's right here (http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=45046.0).

Just popping in here to give a general announcement:

As many of you may or may not know, Heroes season 1 and 2 will now be showing on G4tv with viewer interaction with the cast (iirc) after the episode airs. Last weekend, they had a 3 day marathon of season 1 (which, i must say, showed me that it's very hard to watch this show after an hour on a single day...).

Anyway, I figured I'd let people know since this is the third channel that shows the show (the second being sci-fi).

I had a thought during this episode.

Didn't West seem a little bit like a young Magneto?  And, no, I'm not talking about them having similar powers.

While watching the episode tonight, a certain line by West made my ears perk up. When he was talking to Claire at school about getting onto the cheerleading squad he said...

"You're a total babe and you have a power. That automatically makes you better than them."

I know its not much, but for some reason it made me think of the superiority complex Marvel's Magneto has about mutants being superior to non-mutants.

That got me thinking about West being so creepy and I realized that he's still a kid who isn't getting the same kind of guidance that Claire is about how to deal with his powers. In my opinion he's very similar to a teenage Magneto who's starting to think that he doesn't have to live by the "normal" world's rules.

Any thoughts on this?

That's why I think that if he isn't already with the Company, he soon will be.

[spoiler]Although the whole Hiro and Takensi thing has a very Professor X and Magneto vibe.  I can definitely see Takensi taking that road now that his friendship with Hiro is over.[/spoiler]

I'm actually starting to think that...

[spoiler]
Takezo Kensai is the one killing off the original 12 in the future.  I think his power is actually immortality.  I think he is Adam Monroe (its not a coincidence his name is Adam in the future...he's the first SG/Adam was the first human).  His power makes him unkillable, that is why Bob is willing to do anything he has to in order to find a way to "cure" people of their powers.  They are trying to take away Adam's immortality so they can stop him.
[/spoiler]

Just my thoughts.

Some observations:

[spoiler]-Though not specifically stated, Sylar clearly had his power taken away by the same "virus" that Bob wanted to give to Monica.  Or at least some variation of it.

-West may have either killed his parents or ran away from them.  His comments on his parents was very cryptic.

-Maya has "the power to kill the devil."  Could this mean Sylar or Kensai?  Or both?

-I think Alejandro can speak and understand English.  He just doesn't speak it out of pride for speaking Spanish and because it gives him an edge when dealing with English speakers.  In real life this happens all the time.  My brother sells cell phones and every time there are Hispanics who want to buy a cell phone and they all go to the one Hispanic saleswoman and talk to her in English.  They'll literally line up behind her in spite of the fact that they speak English fine.  The same with my dad who currently sells cars.  While a Korean-speaker will be willing to deal with him and the Korean salesmen, the Hispanics tend to specifically ask for someone who speaks Spanish, usually in perfect English.

-Looks like this season is playing out a lot like last season.  The basic formula is there anyway.
[/spoiler]

A response to one of those items:

[spoiler]

Quote-West may have either killed his parents or ran away from them.  His comments on his parents was very cryptic.

Or--he's older than he looks.  Not a teenager, not in highschool, but actually an agent for the Company.

If you think about it, this would explain a few things

1.  Why he singled her out to talk to her right away.

2.  He's never shown having any friends in the school himself.  He may not have been there very long himself.

3.  Why he spied on her.

4.  Why he purposely humiliated her to get her to admit her powers to him.  That was a rather ruthless move, if you think about it.

I'm not saying that I'm dead set about this, just that it is a possibility.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 31, 2007, 06:19:40 AM

Quote-West may have either killed his parents or ran away from them.  His comments on his parents was very cryptic.

Or--he's older than he looks.  Not a teenager, not in highschool, but actually an agent for the Company.

If you think about it, this would explain a few things

1.  Why he singled her out to talk to her right away.

2.  He's never shown having any friends in the school himself.  He may not have been there very long himself.

3.  Why he spied on her.

4.  Why he purposely humiliated her to get her to admit her powers to him.  That was a rather ruthless move, if you think about it.

I'm not saying that I'm dead set about this, just that it is a possibility.

That doesn't really fit with the online comic about him.  In that, he seemed to think that he was the only one with a power.  I also think that a company operative would be a lot more careful about secrecy than he has been.
[/spoiler]

Note: Finally a reference to the online comics within the show! Woo!

Some thoughts-

[spoiler]
Did anyone get a look at all the paintings? I got: Hiro fighting Kensei, a hand with a vial, someone with Issac eyes (and a lot of people behind him), Niki (Jessica?) banging on something, and Peter (Sylar?) firing a gun.

Based on that, I'ma gonna go ahead and say that Mohinder's new partner is, in fact, Jessica.

I'm also gonna go ahead and say that while I've read three Heroes will be dead by January, I don't think HRG will be joining them.  I think its gonna be a vision that Parkman Sr traps him in. I'm rooting for West, Alejandro and Maya to bite it, personally.

Sylar is obviously patient zero that they tried their vaccine on.
[/spoiler]

Nitpicks moved to other thread as requested, though there werent many. For the first time this season, I actually saw the potential that they had back in Season one. I'd rank this rite up with most Season one episodes (not the great ones like "Company man", but the rank and file.)

Took them long enough to reverse the slide- What are we 5 -6 episodes in?

Oh, sure- they've finally brought back the show I feel in love with last season, only to have the writers go on strike.. :(

I finally know what the Heroes writing staff were waiting for before anything happens: sweeps!  About as much happened in tonight's episode as in every one of the season leading up to here.  Much improved, much improved. 

And though the big reveals weren't terribly surprising, at least they make sense, which I prefer over a surprise that is only shocking because it comes out of la-la land and is totally nonsensical.

Well, that was much better than any other episode this season.  It had some really cool parts.

[spoiler]
The pacing is a lot better.  All of the plots that were dragging are finally getting into gear.

It's great to see Hiro and Peter back involved with the plot, and Hiro's visit to the past may not be totally pointless after all.  I really liked Hiro and Kensei's swordfight.  I loved Hiro and Ando's scene together.  It's great to see those two back together again.

I also really liked the Parkman vs. Parkman scenes.  The acting was very good, and it showed some real character development.

The virus storyline may have some promise.  The general development of that plot was pretty good.  The future parts were pretty interesting.  I can't say I'm too sorry to see Caitlyn go, either.

This episode managed to rectify some of the bad parts of earlier episodes by acknowleding the consequences of certain actions.  It's really good to see the writers acknowledge that Claire and West's prank did leave a police report, and HRG left fingerprints when he killed Ivan.
[/spoiler]

That was definitely a great episode, and was of the high quality that I would expect from the show. 

[spoiler]The pacing definitely was much quicker, it seemed as if everything was there for a reason and it wasn't just full of filler to chew up screen time. 

I like that Peter has his memories back, or at least, some of them.  But I'm not entirely sure how that worked.  Does Mrs. Petrelli's power work in such a way that she was able to repair his lost memories, thus giving him back all the memories he had?  Or does her power work that she was able to transfer her memories to Peter, which seemed to me to be the case, since they just showed a lot of flashes or her during that scene where Peter got the memories back?  Or was it that Peter somehow used Parkman's power and saw all of Mrs. Petrelli's memories that she was thinking about?  As I said, I'm not really sure, and if it was the first or the third option I suggested, then Peter might only have partial memory or even "extra" memories (since Mrs. Petrelli in the future had an extra year of memories to pass on in that case.)

I must also admit, I kind of laughed a bit when Peter left his Irish lass in the future. 

I really like that Parkman is getting better control of his powers and we're really starting to see them evolve.  I can't wait to see how he manages to use his newfound powers and if they will fully manifest like Parkman Sr's over time.

After this past episode, I really don't feel like Niki was controlled by Parkman Sr. into going to the company.  If she was, I think he would have had her kill Bob a lot earlier instead of when he got nearby.  I find it interesting how she'd seemingly rather die (by injecting herself with the virus) than harm more people.  But I found myself wondering why she even had the syringe at all.  They had it as a plan to stop Parkman Sr. but she didn't have it in her hand when she tossed Mohinder and picked it up afterwards before making her way to Bob.  I'm not really sure why she'd pick it up when she could just rip Bob a new one with her bare hands.

The virus storyline has the chance to turn into something really cool, but I don't really like the whole way that they just keep seeing the future, decide they don't like it, and then work to change it.  I kind of liked the idea of a destiny, a future more or less set in stone that even if you change a few things in the past, won't necessarily affect the future in a huge way and you still end up more or less where you were supposed to go. 

While I originally thought West was with the Company, I don't think so anymore.  He just seemed far too shocked, hurt, and upset by discovering that Claire's father was HRG, which if he was with the company, he already should have known.

Also, I'm wondering if Bob really thinks Claire's healing can lead to a cure for the virus, or if he just wants to get her for other reasons (like perhaps to get some measure of revenge on HRG for killing Ivan.)  Since it seems like powers may have some hereditary link (from Parkman and his Dad) maybe Claire is Kensei's relative (perhaps even his daughter) and that may explain why the company has so much of an interest in her.

I know Mohinder really just wants to do good for the world, but was he just being a bonehead again by coming clean to Bob about working with HRG to try to take down the company? 

And on one final note for the night, I'm going to make a prediction that since all the evidence is pointing to either Mohinder or West shooting HRG, that there'll be a huge curveball thrown, and Claire'll do it.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: Adamence on November 05, 2007, 08:15:55 PM
Also, I'm wondering if Bob really thinks Claire's healing can lead to a cure for the virus, or if he just wants to get her for other reasons (like perhaps to get some measure of revenge on HRG for killing Ivan.)  Since it seems like powers may have some hereditary link (from Parkman and his Dad) maybe Claire is Kensei's relative (perhaps even his daughter) and that may explain why the company has so much of an interest in her.

No...Nathan is Claire's father.  Is someone here absent minded? :P

[spoiler]

Quote from: kkhohoho on November 05, 2007, 08:26:21 PM

Quote from: Adamence on November 05, 2007, 08:15:55 PM
Also, I'm wondering if Bob really thinks Claire's healing can lead to a cure for the virus, or if he just wants to get her for other reasons (like perhaps to get some measure of revenge on HRG for killing Ivan.)  Since it seems like powers may have some hereditary link (from Parkman and his Dad) maybe Claire is Kensei's relative (perhaps even his daughter) and that may explain why the company has so much of an interest in her.

No...Nathan is Claire's father.  Is someone here absent minded? :P

What reason do we have to really believe that?  Because Claire's lying mother said so?  I'm sure Nathan's slept around enough to not keep track of how many illegitimate children he's had, and to believe just about anyone claiming he had one with them.  I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time a woman has lied about who the father or her child is for money or any other reason.[/spoiler]

On a semi-related topic...
[spoiler]
if last year's threat was lifted from The Watchmen, is this year's the Legacy Virus?
[/spoiler]

Quote from: Talavar on November 05, 2007, 09:42:46 PM
On a semi-related topic...
[spoiler]
if last year's threat was lifted from The Watchmen, is this year's the Legacy Virus?
[/spoiler]

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY.

Adamence:

[spoiler]
It wasn't just Claire biological mother who said that she was Nathan's daughter.  Mrs. Petrelli did as well, and it seems was keeping track of her since birth, or close to it.  Mrs. Petrelli is a founder of the Company and would know what they know in this regard.

Also, Matt and his dad are the ONLY examples of actual powers being passed from parent to child.  We have multiple cases of children of powered folks having completely different powers and one single case of them being identical.  We also have one case of characters having identical powers (Nathan and West) who are apparently not related to each other in any way.
[/spoiler]

General thoughts

[spoiler]
It's good to see the storylines coming together.  Three more of our wayward birds are back in the nest, leaving only Monica and Maya's storylines still disconnected, although one can see several ways in which Maya, Alehandro, or both, could end up being quite vital.

Now I would like to remind you all of just who said that Takensi could easily be a Magneto type?  And now he's described as trying to punish non-power humanity.  His being the big bad wasn't a total shock, but Hiro's story now falls into place as Adam's origin, and actually becomes more interesting and important because of that.  It also means that Hiro is responsible for most of what is happening, even if it wasn't really his fault.  I look forward to seeing what happens when Hiro and Adam next encounter one another.  With the news about his father, I'm sure he and Ando will soon appear in New York to investigate.

This episode provided an interesting look at Bob and the Company.  I no longer look at them the same.  They aren't monsters anymore, just somewhat misguided, yet still trying to do the right thing and recover from Linderman's influence.  It looks like the characters will actually end up working with the Company to stop the whole thing, which is a surprising yet refreshing change of pace.  I am wondering why it didn't occur to Bob that looking for Adam would be just as good as Claire, but maybe it's because he only knows where one of them is.

Speaking of Claire, her stupidity and immaturity has finally caught up with her, on all three fronts.  (HRG, West, and the Company)

It turns out Matt's dad was telling the truth about their powers being the same.  It's good to see him beat his father at his own game and free Molly.  What he does with his new mental manipulation powers we will see.
[/spoiler]

Now, several characters are going to die, it's been stated.  Any guesses who?  My picks so far.

[spoiler]
Niki--she's already got the virus, and I doubt they'll cure the thing until the last episode of the storyline, or the one before

Adam--I doubt they can stop him any other way than by killing him.  Likely Maya.

Alehandro--it's just too good of a plot twist to give up

HRG--iffy on this one, but I'm thinking he might indeed be going, as the picture indicates, I'm also guessing it will end up being his own fault, that he will end up more paranoid than he already is, especially with Mohinder essentially switching sides, and his mistrust will lead to his death when someone else is forced to fire on him.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 06, 2007, 05:28:39 AM
Adamence:

It wasn't just Claire biological mother who said that she was Nathan's daughter.  Mrs. Petrelli did as well, and it seems was keeping track of her since birth, or close to it.  Mrs. Petrelli is a founder of the Company and would know what they know in this regard.

Also, Matt and his dad are the ONLY examples of actual powers being passed from parent to child.  We have multiple cases of children of powered folks having completely different powers and one single case of them being identical.  We also have one case of characters having identical powers (Nathan and West) who are apparently not related to each other in any way.

And as a founder of the company, she'd know about Kensei and if the company knew Kensei was Claire's real father, she would know that.  And since the company keeps tabs on Kensei, they'd likely want to keep tabs Claire as well if she was his daughter.  And when Claire was told she was Nathan's daughter, Mrs. Petrelli could have played along with the convenient lie rather than let the truth get out.  This would explain why she had kept tabs on Claire and why she led Claire to believe that Nathan really is her father.   

I'm not saying Claire is his daughter, I'm merely saying I view the possibility as being there. 
[/spoiler]

Does anyone else find it completely rediculous that we finally opened a duplicate thread for bashing the lackluster writing job this season right as the series got good again?  :P

[spoiler]There wasn't really anything that we didn't already guess in this episode (we pretty much knew Kensei/Adam was the baddie from the start, the virus killing everyone in a year wasn't suprising at all, and the fact that Hiro really was the subject of the Kensei legends was guessed right from the outset) but I don't actually care about that at all. The writting was alot better, the acting was good, and the pace has finally picked up from the crawl it had been for most of the previous episodes. If they keep it like this, I wouldn't care if they never did anything shocking ever again. At least, not for the rest of the season... which doesn't seem to be that long anymore.

But anyway, actual plot discussion-

I probably differ from most on this, I hope HRG dies now. He was good when he was fighting for Claire, but it seems like now he's just fighting for his own neck, and is getting really sloppy because of it. I wanted him to live when he initially saw the painting, but he's becoming less and less likeable as the season continues.

The Company is no longer a dirty word, which is nice. Having a all-powerful entity that is morally bankrupt is ok, but it gets old after awhile. I really hope they don't revert to the former steriotype later on. I am curious though... if the Company put Adam away, and Linderman was his first desciple, why did Linderman keep him there?

As far as Peter's memories, I think her presence might have just been a trigger for the return of his own memories. The images we saw seemed to be from Peter's perspective, so I don't think she sent him duplicates of her own memories or that he read her mind.

I'm curious to see what they do next episode, since it's going to fill in the blanks from ssn 1 to ssn 2. If it stays in the same decent vein as this last one, I think I'll enjoy it quite a bit.
[/spoiler]

This most recent episode really demonstrates why the current television business model is flawed.  The series has progressed at a snail's pace until the first episode airing in November, because November is sweeps month, and now the ratings actually matter.  Next week's episode looks pretty interesting as well, with a lot of back story getting filled in, and I'd wager most of this month's episodes will be far more interesting than those leading up to sweeps-month.  It's an incredibly frustrating practice that is only made worse with these kinds of serialized dramas.

Heh, it just bugs me I guess.  Summer hiatus isn't as bad because everything's just reruns; it's not as bad as dragging out and padding plot elements in episodes just to make sure all the important stuff occurs during November, February and May.

I'd really prefer a move by the major networks away from set seasons for all new shows, more like British tv or HBO.  I'd rather have 13 episodes of Heroes that were great than a season of 24 episodes that was mediocre.  Of course, this probably won't happen.

So much for keeping the negativity out of this thread.

Well, I tried folks.  We'll keep trying, I guess.

[spoiler]-I don't trust Bob.  I think he's lying big time.  If Linderman was Adam's disciple, then how come Angela was working with him?  Either that's a major plot hole or Bob is a serious weasel.
-I don't think Adam is a good guy either.  I think what we are seeing is a huge invisible war between two factions of the Company's founders and the plague will be an aftermath.  Right now, the heroes are being divided up among sides when they should be shutting down both.
-Why hasn't Mohinder checked his e-mail?  After all, Noah Bennett has sent him the paintings via e-mail by now, right?
-For that matter, why can't Noah just show Claire the paintings and explain to her why he is acting that way?  Talk about stupid.
-Claire is behaving like a typical teenage spoiled brat.  No is supposed to like her because she is acting exactly the way most people act when they are her age and feel trapped by their parents.  Yes, it isn't rational, but it is what it is.
-Peter supposedly gained all his memories of him and his mother from scanning her mind via Matt Parkman's ability.  At least that is the explanation given at Wikipedia.  This could just be a wikiality, though, so take it for what it's worth.
-Are we ever going to know the Founding members of the Company's powers?  I mean, Kaito, Charles, and Angela most likely have them, but we don't have any indications as to what they are.[/spoiler]

Just to add on to what IPS just mentioned...

This is NOT the thread to talk about the series' failings. Cat respectfully asked (http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=43694.300) those who were doing nothing but bashing the show to move that to another thread (http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=45046.0), but all I have seen here is more bashing. THIS forum is for honest discussion between people who just want to talk about where the series might be going, and all this negativity is starting to irritate me as well as IPS.

Now, I admit, I didn't exactly go all happy fun time with my post, but I at least said I enjoyed the episode and went into a list of ideas for upcoming ones. All I'm seeing in the other posts is "The show is bad because..."

I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm really not. But seriously, all this negativity is restricting other forum members ability to just enjoy of this show, including mine, and it needs to be taken to the other thread rather then here.

Completely off topic: Tis human nature to look at life as half-empty. Makes us better ourselves. But I can see how it could get people down. Tough break, IPS, hope it gets better :(

Enjoyable parts of this episode:

[spoiler]Characterization: Spot on for pretty much everybody, except maybe Matt's dad. Breaks his stereotypical 'I am a bad guy just because!' image but, hey, character development is always good.

Hehehe...Irish girl stuck in the future. Maybe, just maybe, this is what causes Peter to realise that Adam is, in fact, a bad guy
. I imagine the dialogue to be something like: "Why do you keep trying so hard to get to the future for this girl? You remind me of a fish I once knew. She's only human, after all..."

Speaking of Adam - first human/special. Heh. Didn't someone in this exact thread call that? But really, who didn't know Takezo wouldn't show up?[/spoiler]

[off topic] Some say the glass is half-empty, some say half-full.  I just want to know which one of you has been drinking my beer! [/off topic]


[spoiler]

I have to agree with Outsider.  I don't trust Bob . . . (I've met the actor who plays him and he's a bit snooty in person) and I definitely think he has some ulterior motives for wanting Adam out of the way.

I think what's going to be revealed is that with Linderman gone, there is a power struggle amongst some of the "Original Twelve" (actually, I think it's original 13) with Bob being one party vying for control and Adam being the other, perhaps.  The results of that power struggle is that the virus that Bob claims to be struggling to cure crosses over to the general populace. 

OR worse, Maya's power causes the virus to mutate.  Possibly because Sylar takes her power.  With nothing to keep the virus in check, people die.  Her brother already having been removed by Sylar.

[/spoiler]

Heh.  I find this whole thing mildly amusing, but if they don't want you to discuss the faults of the show in this thread, then don't.

And you bashers might want to go to the other thread anyways, because Kring, the show's creator, is agreeing with you.

[spoiler]Quick thought.  Anyone think that Angela has some mental abilities?  I mean she yelled at Parkman in her head and somehow seemed to know that Peter was reading here thoughts to remember, or maybe she did that for him.  Or it is possible that she is just used to dealing with telepaths and understands how they work and what they are doing when the do it.  Aside though, I saw Kensei being the big bad since we first saw him heal.  I'm not upset that I was able to figure it out, it was good.  I think the show has definitely gotten better the past couple episodes, and am personally worried about how it will be affected when series writers go on strike.[/spoiler]

But we already know exactly how the strike will effect it, but I guess we've only discussed that in the other thread.

So here goes:

Heroes Origins is canceled.

Heroes season 2 will end after episode 11.  Volume 2 was supposed to end then anyways.  A new ending has been, or going to be, filmed, and the show will be shut down so it can be retooled and improved for season 3.

 :spoiler:

The first few episodes were slow, but it's picked up over the last couple of weeks.

Ok, so here's my theory -- it's not based on anything, but that's the fun part, right?  I don't think Peter's memory loss is amnesia. I think that somehow Peter came into contact with the Haitian in the four months between last season and this season. That's why Peter was wearing the necklace and not the Haitian when they found him. I think his memory loss is the result of acquiring the Haitian's power. We've seen how when Peter gets a new power, he doesn't know how to control it at first. Maybe he used it on himself by mistake? But since he also has Claire's power to heal, maybe he can get his memories back.

I think the virus is Adam's way at strking back at humanity, and Hiro in particular. He's hurting and now he's taking it out on everybody. He swore that he would kill everyone that Hiro loved. Besides his father and the princess, who does Hiro love most? Ando. And there's nothing worst than watching a loved one suffer and die and not be able to do anything about it. 

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 08, 2007, 04:44:41 AM
But we already know exactly how the strike will effect it, but I guess we've only discussed that in the other thread.

So here goes:

Heroes Origins is canceled.

Heroes season 2 will end after episode 11.  Volume 2 was supposed to end then anyways.  A new ending has been, or going to be, filmed, and the show will be shut down so it can be retooled and improved for season 3.

Actually, Heroes: Origins has not been canceled but delayed indefinitely.  There is still a likelihood that it will be finished and aired next summer.  Well, if the strike is over by then.  :P 

Here is a neat little video that I found on Hana's Blog , I dont really follow her blog but I came across this video on it, It was taken from another character that has to to with the "company" named Drucker.

http://samantha48616e61.com/


[spoiler]The video was supposedly taken by Drucker and it shows off in the distance the Peter explosion in the finale episode of last season, the interesting part is the finale few seconds where you see a burning figure falling (Nathan?) and someone (Peter?)flying in and saving the burning figure before it hits the ground [/spoiler]

Concerning Adam...
[spoiler]I'm wondering just how long it took for Adam to reform/heal/resurrect after being blown up.  He told Hiro that he would kill the Blacksmith's daughter.  She apparently wasn't killed for some time or not at all if she managed to spread the tales of Kensei.  I did think it odd that Hiro would assume that it was ok for him to leave her when he couldn't be positive that Adam was permanently destroyed.  I would have liked if he would have brought Adam forward somehow.  Perhaps an early version of the company acquired Adam's suit of armor with a bit of his charred organic matter and cloned him? heh.  Anyways, if he was hanging around for 500 years, he should have ended up being the center of history or at least get over such a petty grudge.  It's not like he REALLY loved the woman.  He wasn't even a "good guy" turned bad.  He was a drunken mercenary/thief who apparently fled to Japan for some unrevealed reason.  Considering being a Gaijin is not a position of popularity, it must have been a bad reason.  Hiro is not even the real reason he's a bad guy.  If he'd never met Hiro, he would have eventually discovered his power and used it for personal gain anyway like he intended to before Hiro talked him out of it.[/spoiler]

As for that clip...
[spoiler]It coincides with the story so far.  It appears to me that Peter did not get destroyed from the explosion (was pretty obvious since Ted was never harmed by his own power) and Nathan was hurt by the explosion.  Peter, using Nathan's flight ability, swoops down to pick up his brother.  He must have delivered the unconscious Nathan to the hospital (hence Nathan not aware of Peter's survival).  Peter then leaves town to "protect" everyone and mope like he tends to do.  Nathan probably either had plastic surgery, or was healed by someone else (I suspect Mom).  I don't think it's an illusion since that would be a pretty powerful illusionist to make everyone see the change and not even have to be in close proximity to him.  Peter on his trip at some point meets Adam.  Since Adam only recently escaped from the confines of the company, I'm theorizing that he escaped with the help of Elle (possibly Peter too).  In the process of furthering their plans, Peter comes in proximity to Degauss.  Degauss either wipes the memories from Peter, or Peter accidentally wipes the memories from himself (he's a n00b like that).[/spoiler]

And about the powered line...
[spoiler]My wife and I were theorizing this, and it could possibly work: "Adam" is a symbolic name, not only meaning the first, but also the father of humanity.  We suspect that Adam is not his true name, but a chosen one.  Chosen to symbolize that he is the source for everyone's power.  Adam was quite fond of brothels and the ladies in general.  He also has had plenty of time to spread his genes.  Perhaps this is the "genetic marker" that Suresh was looking for especially since Adam's symbol keeps appearing in conjunction with the powered folk.  Sure they are all different ethnicities, but that doesn't mean they don't have a blonde British man somewhere in their lineage.[/spoiler]

Seems like the series is only going 12 Episodes this season due to the writer's strike, with the last Episode airing on December 3rd.

11 actually.  It was mentioned earlier.

And the writer's strike is not the only reason.  Kring wanted to revamp the show anyway.

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 12, 2007, 04:37:39 AM
11 actually.  It was mentioned earlier.

And the writer's strike is not the only reason.  Kring wanted to revamp the show anyway.

Oh come now cat, you can't possibly believe that barring the strike NBC would've LET Kring shut the show down at 11 episodes for revamping.  Yes, it's been losing steam but its still one of their bigger hits.

I'm just repeating what Kring said.  And it isn't one of their greatest hits this season.  It's been barely in the average range.

Hmm, I'm not really digging how Linderman is being implied as Adam's flunky/disciple .... Linderman (and the lead up to his reveal) was actually one of my favourite characters from Season 1.

Quote from: Jakew on November 12, 2007, 05:54:38 PM
Hmm, I'm not really digging how Linderman is being implied as Adam's flunky/disciple .... Linderman (and the lead up to his reveal) was actually one of my favourite characters from Season 1.

Disciple doesn't nescessarily mean flunky. He might believe as Adam did, but as he was in charge of the company he had to have had a significant roll in Adam's downfall

Okay, let's try this again.  For some reason my backspace key is going back one web page.

Anyway, this explains a lot. . .

[spoiler]
So the Hatian was trying to save Peter.  Given Ell, that actually makes some kind of sense.

And now Nathan's glimpses of ruined Nathan makes sense.  This also explains why they're so sure that Claire's blood can help, because they already know it works with the other person with those powers.

DL's death is a bit sudden and shocking.  I'll resist making further comments in this thread other than to say the basic idea works.

And the explanation about Niki's condition works too.  Jessica is gone, but there are other personalities lurking.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: USAgent on November 10, 2007, 12:50:34 PM
Here is a neat little video that I found on Hana's Blog , I dont really follow her blog but I came across this video on it, It was taken from another character that has to to with the "company" named Drucker.

http://samantha48616e61.com/

Hmmm. I thought Hana was supposed to have been killed last season. I Guess they changed their minds.

That was quite good.  It really benefitted from the flashback format.

I missed what happened in the first 3 minutes.  I turned the TV on when the doctor was talking to Niki about DL's surgery.  Can somebody please fill me in on what I missed?

[spoiler]
It's great to see DL again.  I actually liked Niki's story this week for the most part.  I loved the scene where DL rescued the girl from the fire.  It's very good to see that he didn't die of one gunshot to the abdomen when Matt survived 4 to the chest, and it wasn't a mistake that his grave said he died in 2007.

I also really liked Maya's storyline.  The scenes of her and her brother discovering her power had a real sense of drama and tension.

I liked Peter's storyline too.  I like Adam and think that he'll make a good villain.  I also liked Elle, and her background explains a lot.  I really liked how this episode, despite being a flashback, managed to move the plot forward at important parts.
[/spoiler]

Protomorph: In an online comic, Hana was killed, but she managed to upload her consciousness onto the internet.  So she can still run her website.

Conduit:

[spoiler]
The episode begins with Nathan grabbing Peter and flying off with him as Claire and HRG watch.  We then see a close up version of what the video from Hana's blog shows.  Nathan carries the glowing Peter, his own face and body starting to burn.  Peter tell him to drop him, that he'll be all right.  Nathan does, Peter explodes, and the explosion knocks Nathan out.  Before he hits the ground, Peter flies in and grabs him and rushes him to the hospital, then uses his invisibility to try to escape, but his electrocuted by Ell, who is with Bob.
[/spoiler]

I liked this episode alot, again despite it not revealing any new plot details(except for DL not dying in the initial Linderman ordeal, which makes more sense... I'll leave it like that actually) or ones that we couldn't have guessed.

However there were a few nuggets of info mixed in-

- Maya's power stops on it's own, eventually. It may not have been worth the whole segment, but it was something we didn't nescessarily know.

- I'm not sure how to take "present" Adam. Sure, he's a villain, but I want to like him for some reason. Plus, there's alot we don't know about what happened to him, he could very well have changed. Granted, it's very slim, but between him and the company I don't think eithor is very good.

-Nathan appears to be just outside the building Peter and Adam are at, so I'm curious how they play that.

I like the fact that present-day Adam is being portrayed as a likable guy, and that it's not immediately apparent to a casual observer that he could be a bad guy.  He presently looks very much like a sympathetic villain, which puts me in mind of an adage a friend shared with me:

The most dangerous villains are those that we like and can identify with.
The most terrifying villains are those that we can become.

Heroes has been doing a really nice job of exploring different ethics and morality involved in a world with super powers.

Is it wrong for me to be really attracted to Elle after this episode?

Quote from: The Hitman on November 13, 2007, 03:26:43 PM
Is it wrong for me to be really attracted to Elle after this episode?

Absolutely not! I'd let her shock me too! :D

If loving Kristen Bell is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

That said, Elle is a scary little sociopath and for the very first time, well, ever- I find myself thinking that the ride may not be worth the price of admission.

Idiotic news broadcasters!

It's 15 minutes before the end of the show, and an ad for tonight's local newbroadcast spoiled part of the show!

ARRRGGGGHHHH!

Holy <bleep> they actually did it!

Yeah, that's the part they spoiled.

Didn't give the details, but it wasn't that hard to guess.

Not that it's that surprising, but still, I'm this close to calling the station and giving them a piece of my mind.

Of course, a few thousand people are probably doing the same thing right now. . .

Holy <bleep>, they undid it!

Oh man [spoiler] I knew he couldn't be dead. Also I love Hiro.[/spoiler]

Thankfully for me, I had my viewing unspoiled. :thumbup:

Holy Mackeral!

What a twist ending!  Didn't see that coming!

[spoiler]
The quadruple father/child parallel was well done.

Matt can give mental commands.  Interesting.  And he's abusing it.  Like, a lot.

Anyway, I'm guess I'm still processing the rest of it.  Glad to see West actually do something useful, finally.
[/spoiler]

That was very good.  I'm very glad to see how much the pacing has improved.

[spoiler]
Matt and Hiro's storylines were great.  The Generations story arc is really picking up speed.  I loved everything Hiro and his dad did.  George Takei was just amazing.  I liked Hiro doing the monologue too.

Matt was awesome too.  The new application of his power was interesting, and the scene with Angela was awesome.  I loved the "if you take this secret from me, then you are your father."

Parts of the Bennets' storyline were great too.  I loved the part where he sprayed water on Elle (good guess, whoever speculated that water might not mix well with her powers), his first fight with Mohinder, and when West took him and flew him into the air.  His death scene was gut wrenching.  I'm glad he'll still stick around.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Well that was pretty good. Not as good as last week but it didn't have Niki in it (yay). Of course it did have 'L... and she only got an arm shot instead of the forehead I was hoping for. Stupid annoying lame characters. Also there was no Peter <3. Sadness. Anyway, I totally guessed they'd use Claire's blood to save human resources guy. I'm so smart/handsome. And as much as I hate West (ok, it's still my favorite second favorite show on tv I just get annoyed by lame characters on shows), he wasn't too too aweful in this one. Parkman was a total meanface to Momtrelli, but the way I see it, she was just saying that stuff about his dad to try to stop him. She deserved what she got, especially a bloody nose. Hiro's so great, but Child-From-Past Hiro was even more awesome, amirite? I don't really see what the problem with saving Ensign Sulu's life was if they don't have any problems breaking pretty much the first rule of time travel. Did Sulu not notice himself ten yards away in daylight? Or not care that his son suddenly grew a big brother out of nowhere? Anyway, it'll be great to see how the second half of the season plays ou- What's that you say, recent knowledge? Writer's strike? 2 MORE EPISODES?!?!

Those bastards. Those damn dirty writing bastards. So... so... greedy.... *shakes stick in air*[/spoiler]

Um, BWPS, there were some pretty negative comments in that post.  Cat has asked that that sort of thing be kept out of this thread.  You can, however, post them here (http://freedomreborn.net/archive/index.php?topic=45046.0).

Great episode...
[spoiler]
...fast paced, suspenseful and revealing interesting character growth.  I'm glad that HRG's death was undone, because I like the character and actor, though an important character death could really help continue the positive shakedown the show's been needing.  Mohinder's actions are really painting him in an unpleasant light for me - why is he so convinced the Company is good again?  He knows Elle is a killer, has been asked to experiment on unsuspecting people by them, and knows they've been creating viruses that could leap to the normal population without a lot of effort.  With all of that, he still choses to side with them against HRG?  That doesn't seem like a moral decision to me, particularly when they've already got what they wanted out of all this, namely some of Claire's blood.

Matt's new power application has interesting ramifications - mind control has to be the most easily abused super-power of all.  We also got confirmation on Sulu's killer, something many of us have suspected.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Agreed, that episode was epic...i totaly agree, mohinder's doing was foolish but im suspecting he was the one who arranged for HRG to get claires blood as a bargain with Bob. I kinda suspected Adam/Kenzei to be the killer, especially of Kaito Nakamura. He has multiple reasons, one being that he swore to hiro he would never stop hurting him and the one he loves.

Man, Sylar seems so small compared to this season...[/spoiler]

[spoiler]That was, indeed, an epic episode.  Mr. Horn-Rimmed Glasses is THE MAN!

At any rate, to play Devil's Advocate in defense of Mohinder:

It would seem that Mohinder knows some important things that HRG does not, and which would take a fair bit of time to explain.  Time which neither seems to have, given the fast pacing of things.  Mohinder's learned of the anti-powers serum project, that it has caused a virus infection in Nikki, and that the former failsafe (his blood) failed to work.  Hence, he's operating under a desire to stop that virus from spreading into a plague. 

HRG seems to be unaware of these elements, but is well aware of what the Company has done via experimentation.  Hence, he appears to be motivated by his "protect Claire at all costs" instinct, and the belief that the Company would do horrible, unspeakable things to Claire if they got their hands on her.

Now, I'm not sure to what extent Mohinder knows about the extent of the Company's past actions.  HRG has shown that he's repeatedly warned Mohinder of how the Company tries to sink its hooks into its employees.  I imagine that either Mohinder is blissfully ignorant of the true depths to which the Company is willing to sink, and/or he believes that the Company has changed and can be salvaged as a force for good.  Rather naive, but as Bob said, Mohinder's moral compass always points due North.  With a capital N, which again stands for Naive.[/spoiler]

I called it on Elle and her weakness.

Also, it's good that they actually explain why Kaito was standing on that ledge for so long after Angela left him.  I kept thinking in the premiere about why he would be standing there when he said he was going to Japan that night.

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on November 20, 2007, 05:18:08 PM
Also, it's good that they actually explain why Kaito was standing on that ledge for so long after Angela left him.  I kept thinking in the premiere about why he would be standing there when he said he was going to Japan that night.

But he only stood there because Hiro told him of his death.  But for Hiro to know of his death, his father would have had to die without Hiro intervening.  But his father stood there because of Hiro. But for Hiro to know of his death, his father would have had to die without Hiro intervening. But his father stood there because of Hiro.

I hate time travel. :wacko:

I finally got around to watching the episode, I must say, I'm rather pleased with just about everything that happened.

[spoiler]

Quote from: BWPS on November 19, 2007, 08:07:58 PM
Of course it did have 'L... and she only got an arm shot instead of the forehead I was hoping for.

Had that happened, I would have given up on the show for reasons I got into last week in the other thread and won't repeat here.  So I'm very happy that it didn't happen. 

Quote from: Viking on November 20, 2007, 07:06:42 AM
At any rate, to play Devil's Advocate in defense of Mohinder:

It seems to me that Mohinder was probably aware that Bob got some of Claire's blood and maybe the plan the entire time was to shoot HRG and then bring him back.  If he knew that was the plan, then there's no harm in shooting him because you know you're just going to bring him back.

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 19, 2007, 07:06:15 PM
Matt can give mental commands.  Interesting.  And he's abusing it.  Like, a lot.

I definitely like it too.  It's nice to see how he's evolving with his power, and I think it'll get even more interesting to see where this takes him now.  I'm left with a thought though, Peter has Parkman's mind reading ability, will it naturally evolve for Peter as well, or will he need to run into Parkman again to get it.

I think that's about all I've got for now, gotta say again, loved the ep.
[/spoiler]

It's been stated before that Peter gains the full potential of a special's powers, rather than just what they can do at the time.

Since he switches out powers, however, he doesn't quite have as much chance to develop them.

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 21, 2007, 07:33:05 PM
It's been stated before that Peter gains the full potential of a special's powers, rather than just what they can do at the time.

Since he switches out powers, however, he doesn't quite have as much chance to develop them.

Cool, thanks for clearing that up for me.

AMAZING

Wow, I just watched it on NBC.com and man it was good.

if Molly dies I'm going to be sad :(

Quote from: kkhohoho on November 20, 2007, 06:02:48 PM

Quote from: OutsiderNo11 on November 20, 2007, 05:18:08 PM
Also, it's good that they actually explain why Kaito was standing on that ledge for so long after Angela left him.  I kept thinking in the premiere about why he would be standing there when he said he was going to Japan that night.

But he only stood there because Hiro told him of his death.  But for Hiro to know of his death, his father would have had to die without Hiro intervening.  But his father stood there because of Hiro. But for Hiro to know of his death, his father would have had to die without Hiro intervening. But his father stood there because of Hiro.

I hate time travel. :wacko:

Most likely Papa Hiro stood there not knowing about his death the first time around...it's recursion that makes it messy.  I love that stuff!

So...when is Matt getting his lightsaber?

That was pretty good.  A good amount of filler, but it was good.  I can't think of any specific thoughts to say, so I'll just leave it at that for now.

Some comments:

[spoiler]
Well, it's comfirmed that Adam is the big bad, and the Company is indeed not an evil monster, more of a organization with good intents, but an end-justifies-the-means philosophy that sometimes makes them a bit sinister.

Peter, with is stuborn refusal to listen to anyone who tries to warn him about Adam, especially when he can read their minds to see if they're lying, is not the smartest dumb guy.

Sylar is just as creepy as ever, and without needing any powers.  He also proves himself a master of manipulation.  I also thought it interesting that everything he said about his mother's death is actually true.  All these ruthless murders and he tells the truth about the one death he didn't intend.

We now see a demonstration of why superheroes don't really exist.  I hope Micah learns his lesson.
[/spoiler]

Theory:

[spoiler]Claires Blood is what mutates the virus when injected into Niki? A self-healing, immortal, pretty indestructible virus would be a pain. I mean, it's not got a head! Heh. I know its been established theres a strain 138 that will be it...but it would be a pretty cool twist, no?[/spoiler]

Just a theory.

A bit annoyed to see

:spoiler:

Alejandro bumped off. The guy was a decent actor and I was hoping he'd be given something to do, or they'd at least explore some of the relationship between him and his sister considering she wiped out his entire family. Maybe just mortally wound him and have him come back in the ninth round to stop his sister from going "Dark Phoenix".

I'm also a bit peeved that Sylar is now a hand-to-hand killer of superpowered victims. Meek guy turned psycho with powers, yes. Manipulator, yes, but kind of stretching it ... considering how poor his social skills are in past episodes. Physical threat, and he's on the verge of being an omnipotent comic villain.

Actually, he has been shown to be quite the manipulator in the past.  He's been shown convincing people that he was all sorts of things, which is how he gets close enough to kill.

And I was actually expecting what he did to happen, although you're right about exploring that relationship more.

Re: Alejandro/Sylar

[spoiler]
First, I've gotta disagree with you- the emo wonder twins storyline has been terrible- a huge drag on the season, and has done nothing to justify making Zachary Quinto a full cast member(which I was against). I'm glad Sylar killed him- I only wished he'd done Maya as well.

Second: Alejandro's power was cancelling out Maya's power. Hardly a "superpowered" victim; more like one man against another.  After all, it's not like Sylar went up powerless against Niki and killed her - that would be unbeliavble.

Thirdly: theres one and only one acceptible reason to bring back Sylar (and it shouldn't have been done till season 3 or 4) - to have the knock down, drag out, kick butt fight with Peter that they've cheated us out of so far, and then he needs to go away for 5 months to a year again. The Joker's a dang fine Batman villian, but if he appeared in every Batman comic hed get real old real fast.

[/spoiler]

I wondering if Sylar will actually grow to love Maya..

If so, it would be nice to see him actually keep somebody around to kill all the heroes with. With this, Maya would have to go evil, which I see happening.

I'm hoping Maya's encounter with Dr. Siresch (sp?) will explain what her power is, how it works, and why it is so vital to this season...

And why Sylar seems to want it so badly.

Suresh. And I'm looking forward to their meeting too...except I have a much more morbid reason for it :lol:

I was always against Sylar coming back, he made a good first season villain but Adam is so much more interesting.

my idea about the virus is it mixed with Maya's power somehow, i also think someone well liked will die in the next episodes :S

Normally, I'd like that theory, but they stated in the past episode that

[spoiler]the dangerous strain already exists, developed by the Company.[/spoiler]

Also, the ad for next week's episode states that two heroes will die.

[spoiler]well i wonder if Mohinder counts as a Hero, id recon it was Niki and Mohinder...maybe Elle.[/spoiler]

I'm thinking Hiro dies next episode along with Peter.  And Adam will probably be locked up again or killed as well (if that's possible).

So far, Sylar has added little to plot except kill off Betty (Candice) and distract Mohinder from getting the cure to Niki (which may result in her death as well).

By the way, where was Matt?  Shouldn't have been home to put a bullet through Sylar's head?

QuoteI'm thinking Hiro dies next episode along with Peter.

Don't make me cry!

I'd say Niki could die, maybe Parkman or Suresh, possibly Molly. Hiro and Peter are the main protagonists! At least, Peter WAS but suddenly turned into a stupid. He's still insanely handsome.

Hmm.. actually, I'm thinking Peter is starting to look more like Sylar.

QuoteBy the way, where was Matt?  Shouldn't have been home to put a bullet through Sylar's head?

If you recall from last episode, he's tracking down the woman Adam just killed.  He'll likely arrive just after they leave.

[spoiler]Oh crap Sylar's back. Couple of potential deaths too.[/spoiler]

Some quick thoughts before going to work.

[spoiler]
Nathan's death made sense given the circumstances.  You'd think, as a matter of fact, that Matt and Peter would have thought of this and brain-scanned the onlookers.  But then again, maybe they wouldn't have.  I mean, they aren't top-secret agents or anything, but they do know the Company.

Some nifty moments and Adam's fate is sort of fun.  Imagine being trapped like that for years, unable to die.  Of course, he could always come back.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on December 03, 2007, 07:08:01 PM
Some quick thoughts before going to work.

[spoiler]
Nathan's death made sense given the circumstances.  You'd think, as a matter of fact, that Matt and Peter would have thought of this and brain-scanned the onlookers.  But then again, maybe they wouldn't have.  I mean, they aren't top-secret agents or anything, but they do know the Company.

Some nifty moments and Adam's fate is sort of fun.  Imagine being trapped like that for years, unable to die.  Of course, he could always come back.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Couldn't he just teleport out?

I'm glad Maya is still alive. She's a good actress. It's just too bad she wasn't better in X3..[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Adam can't teleport, so he's stuck for the duration - or at least until he can dig through a casket, concrete grave cap and six feet of dirt.  Or I suppose he'd run out of air, suffocate, regenerate, suffocate and repeat as necessary.  That's some painful revenge on Hiro's part.

Nathan getting snipered caught me a little off-guard, but it does make sense.  Man, Mrs. Petrelli is one cold lady though. 

Claire's blood healing dead people needs to get nipped in the bud though - it has the potential to be seriously story-breaking.

Niki exploding also suprised me somewhat - I thought the virus might finish her off, but an explosion has a lot of finality.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

Quote from: Figure Fan on December 03, 2007, 07:11:45 PM
Couldn't he just teleport out?

Who do you mean?  Adam can't teleport, only regenerate.  I thought what happened to him was cool.  I imagine that eventually he'll run out of air and at least fall unconscious, but who knows.

Other parts I liked:

Matt and Nathan flying in and "let's never talk about this again."

All the reunions.  It's great to see Nathan interact with Hiro and Peter again.  Hiro and Kensei's interaction was really interesting after what had happened between them.

Niki's storyline, while tangential, was pretty cool.  Her death was at least heroic.

The promos said that 2 heroes would die.  That means either a) they don't consider Adam a hero, b) they don't consider his fate dying, or c) one of them didn't really die.  If it's the latter, I would guess Nathan (just look at Matt and DL's survival of the last season finale), but a and b are definite possibilities.  Or the promo guys may have just messed up.
[/spoiler]

Conduit:

[spoiler]Nathan and Nikki. Adam isn't dead, just.....imprisoned, for lack of a better word. Hiro's revenge is more chilling than killing Adam (if possible), but it also leaves it open to bring him back at some point.[/spoiler]

What I didn't like about the episode:

[spoiler]Maya is still alive. I applauded when Sylar shot her, then groaned when he got Mohinder to give her the blood. I don't see her being of any use whatsoever, unless they have her, not Peter (or possibly working with Peter) be the one to finally take him down for good. And frankly, if that's why, I hope she's either killed off or otherwise written out of the show.

I like Ali Larter, but was tired of Nikki; She's pretty much the only reason I watched Final Destination 2.

So HRG is back with the Company? Makes no sense, unless they have it backfire on them. (ie, HRG figures out a way to take them down while working for them) I hope they don't pull some bs and have it be him who shot Nathan....

Speaking of which, when I realized Nikki was the only one killed off and the promo said two Heroes would die, I knew it was going to be Nathan when they started the press conference.

If Mohinder continues to be an idiot and Sylar doesn't get taken care of next season, I may not watch a 4th season. Sylar is getting tiresome. [/spoiler]

[spoiler]Don't you just love how Sylar "got away" when Molly was sitting right there and they had two people who could have easily taken him down without too much trouble?  Talk about stupid plot points.  Maybe they can get new writers for volume 3 who have more common sense.

Even though Sylar is "back," he may not be the biggest player out there now.  Besides Peter, there's Maya, Elle, and possibly Matt Parkman who could take him down even with his full power.  And let's not forget the Haitian.  Also, a normal person could just hit him with a flash/noise grenade and riddle his body with bullets.

Maybe I should apply as a writer for the show....[/spoiler]

This is a reminder to keep the negativity down in this thread.  If you want to post complaints about this season, do so in the other thread.  That's why it's there.

[spoiler]Ok, did Syler get the ability to heal while I wasn't looking or something? or was it just an illusion which he cast on himself?[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Claire's blood doesn't just heal the virus, it heals all wounds the person injected with it had at the time of injection.[/spoiler]

Quote from: Tomato on December 04, 2007, 03:56:33 PM
[spoiler]Claire's blood doesn't just heal the virus, it heals all wounds the person injected with it had at the time of injection.[/spoiler]

*Smack head* I figured it out just as you posted.

:doh:

I finally got around to watching the episode (a bit later than I would have liked...but what can ya do?)  I thought it was really good, I definitely enjoyed it, but am left with a few thoughts:

[spoiler]
I don't really see Nathan as being likely to stay dead.  It seems to me that Peter, knowing that Adam's blood could cure something like that, might try giving Nathan some of his own blood.  We know Claire and Adam have regenerative power, but maybe that's because their power is really the ability to create blood that can heal.  If that's the case, then Peter would also be able to do that, and a simple blood transfusion could bring him back. 

I'm really glad Sylar is back to "normal."  I've noticed a lot of Sylar-hate in general, and I must admit that I really like him, he has the definite potential to be an incredible villain and it would be a shame if they offed him and ended up making the show a 'villain of the season' type show where they just plop some new bad guy in every season and he's just slightly stronger and more evil than the last.  I feel that every hero or group of heroes needs to have some identifiable main villain that you can always count on to be there ready to do their villainy.  You wouldn't want the X-Men without Magneto, or Batman without the Joker- sure there can be other villains, but you want to know there's always that one guy there...waiting.

That said, on a related note, it's nice to know they didn't kill Adam.  With Sylar's love of power, I'm sure he'll be after regeneration even more than he was before.  If he finds out about Adam and what Adam can do, maybe he'll track'im down and dig'em up, thus releasing him for another round of revenge.  And another exciting thought, if it ever happens...maybe they'll team up? 

I'm also thrilled they didn't kill Elle.  When she decided to go after Sylar, I just kept saying to myself "Don't kill her off, don't kill her off."  And it's nice to know they didn't.  There is so much more that can be done with her character that I'd hate it if they had killed her off.

Oh, and one other thing.  Everyone keeps saying that a bullet in the brain'll kill someone like Adam or Peter.  How do they know?  Pure speculation?  Did they just watch a Highlander marathon and figure a bullet's almost as good as lopping it off?  Not that it really matters, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that was in fact _not_ good enough to kill them.  I mean, unless someone's done it before, they really can't know for sure- at best they could hope for something like what happened to Peter, and have the bullet remain lodged, and they'd only heal if it was removed. 
[/spoiler]

I guess that's about it for now.

Quote from: Adamence on December 04, 2007, 11:43:11 PM


I'm really glad Sylar is back to "normal."  I've noticed a lot of Sylar-hate in general, and I must admit that I really like him, he has the definite potential to be an incredible villain and it would be a shame if they offed him and ended up making the show a 'villain of the season' type show where they just plop some new bad guy in every season and he's just slightly stronger and more evil than the last.  I feel that every hero or group of heroes needs to have some identifiable main villain that you can always count on to be there ready to do their villainy.  You wouldn't want the X-Men without Magneto, or Batman without the Joker- sure there can be other villains, but you want to know there's always that one guy there...waiting.

[spoiler]
But you wouldn't want Magneto to be the X-Men's ONLY villain, nor the Joker Batman's.  I don't mind Sylar recurring for a storyarc every couple of years, but making him a regular is too much. He needs to go away for a long time.
[/spoiler]

Here's an interesting theory:

What if the virus wasn't the only thing they put in Sylar in the first place?  What if they also implanted a bomb of some kind at the base of his skull and Bob is always carrying around the trigger?  What if the next season starts out with Sylar trying to take revenge on the Company for what they did and just about when he is going to kill Bob, Bob pulls out a remote and presses the button, killing him?

The thing is, the villains don't have to be uber-powered like Peter (who does a terrible job as a uber-hero) or Sylar, just incredibly resourceful.  Bob's power is benign (at best he might be able to transmute people into stone or something) but he is very resourceful and manipulative, almost as manipulative as Angela or Adam.  With his resources and power, he could easily become the next big villain.

Anyway, that's my two cents.  I thought that Sylar's character had run his course in the first season and that unless he becomes more of an anti-hero, he wasn't worth keeping.

Another storyline could feature Sylar getting regeneration from some previously unknown hero and then teaming up with Adam.  That would make for an interesting villain pair.

[spoiler]

Quote from: bredon7777 on December 05, 2007, 03:49:20 AM

Quote from: Adamence on December 04, 2007, 11:43:11 PM
I'm really glad Sylar is back to "normal."  I've noticed a lot of Sylar-hate in general, and I must admit that I really like him, he has the definite potential to be an incredible villain and it would be a shame if they offed him and ended up making the show a 'villain of the season' type show where they just plop some new bad guy in every season and he's just slightly stronger and more evil than the last.  I feel that every hero or group of heroes needs to have some identifiable main villain that you can always count on to be there ready to do their villainy.  You wouldn't want the X-Men without Magneto, or Batman without the Joker- sure there can be other villains, but you want to know there's always that one guy there...waiting.

But you wouldn't want Magneto to be the X-Men's ONLY villain, nor the Joker Batman's.  I don't mind Sylar recurring for a storyarc every couple of years, but making him a regular is too much. He needs to go away for a long time.

I never said I wanted Sylar to be their only villain, in fact, in my quote I clear say their can be others.  I just wouldn't hate it if the show became a constant revolving door of bad guys.  Give the heroes some enemy who can be there throughout, even if it isn't always a big role, because getting a new enemy every season would get kind of tedious at some point.  They'd have to introduce the character, give them some motivation, spend a few episodes building them up, etc.  I just feel it might start to take away from the show if they do that repeatedly.
[/spoiler]

I'd like to see them introduce a character whose power is that they're immune to powers: Parkman can't read their mind or influence them, they'd see Claude if he was invisible, wouldn't be frozen if Hiro stopped time in their presence (but as a drawback, can't be "teleported" or transported through time by him, either), and would laugh off attacks by Elle or by Sylar using the telekinesis on him or her directly.

They'd be Sylar's worst nightmare; he'd be pretty much powerless vs. them (other than hurling things at them using tk), and if he stole their power it would probably de-power him!

The Haitian's pretty close to that.  He suppresses almost all powers in his presence (passive powers may be an exception), though he can apparently choose to not interfere with certain people.

Speaking of the Haitian, what the heck happened to him?  After HRG's trip to Ukraine, he just fell off the face of the Earth.

Since Peter can reverse The Haitian's  power does that mean Peter can now shut off people's powers?  Why doesn't the Haitian have a name?  I guess it's habit for him to disappear at the end of the season.  I would too...people die during season enders.

Quote from: thalaw2 on December 05, 2007, 09:35:08 PM
Since Peter can reverse The Haitian's  power does that mean Peter can now shut off people's powers?  Why doesn't the Haitian have a name?  I guess it's habit for him to disappear at the end of the season.  I would too...people die during season enders.

Peter has been in close enough proximity to the Haitian to absorb his power, yes.

As stated quite clearly in the 8th episode, Peter can reverse the Haitian's power because he has regeneration.  The Haitian's power cannot restore memories that it has erased.

Just a quick thought:

[spoiler]Did anyone notice that when Sylar demonstrated his power at the end, he TK'd a can of spinnich? Y'know, like Popeye? Spinnich gave Popeye powers? I just thought it was funny.

Oh, and a good episode to end the season, too.
[/spoiler]

Quote from: Conduit on December 06, 2007, 05:41:22 AM
As stated quite clearly in the 8th episode, Peter can reverse the Haitian's power because he has regeneration.  The Haitian's power cannot restore memories that it has erased.

Not the question that was asked.  The question was "Can Peter now shut off people's powers?".  My answer to that still stands.

Quote from: Conduit on December 06, 2007, 05:41:22 AM
As stated quite clearly in the 8th episode, Peter can reverse the Haitian's power because he has regeneration.  The Haitian's power cannot restore memories that it has erased.

Then why can't Claire shake off the effects of having her memories erased many times before the Haitian told revealed what he was doing to her?

There is no evidence that Claire has ever had her memories erased.  In fact, when the Hatian reveals this to her, her tells her about wiping out her families memories, but not hers.  His downright refusal to do so would indicate to me that he has never done so.  He does express a willingness to do so if Claire wants to, but not otherwise.