Well I just bought my tickets tonight for Wednesday morning.
It opens tonight and alll showings with Digital sound are sold out till well into Thursday, I got tickets for the regular experience.
My Korean co-teachers were smart and snatched up tickets a week ago for tomorrow night.
i'm so pumped!
So I watched Spidey earlier this morning... excellent!
It did a great job of tying into the first two movies, and its just all around good.
much funnier than the first two, but some of the humour seems a little childish.
and they definately improved on the action sequences. pure eye candy.
i'll be seeing it again when i get back to north america, and i can watch it in imax.
Im glad to hear it's a little Silly, that is one of Sam Raimi's strong points and spierman does silly well, especially in the 80's - 90's where he alternated between melodrama and comedy.
Second: dude, your coming back? When do you touch down in america?
This was probably my favorite of the three, good solid action, a nice wide range of emotion too. If I had one complaint (barely a spoiler), it would be that the [spoiler]"Peter thinks he's cool"[/spoiler] scenes made my eyes hurt. One addendum, I don't actually follow the comics so I can't speak to how hardcore fans will react.
It may have just been the theater I was in, but the sound did seem to chop-and-change between speakers in some early scenes. I suspect that won't be the case for others though.
i'll echo youre critique, thought it was a bit overdone in some scenes, but great for the plot. reminds me of the somewhat similar scenes of transformation in the first two.
The movie definitely loses some of the characterization and emotion of the previous two.
And it had too many villains, and the tone shifted quite a bit...
And yet I found it to be an incredibly entertaining disjointed over the top mess of a spectacle.
Was it the best of the films?
Not at all.
And i can understand why people may not like it -- a friend who went with me described it as "Raimi giving a big F/U to the first two films and then deconstructing them". I cant say I really agree with that...but I think I understand what he meant.
In any case for me, the sheer ridiculousness and over the top tone of the thing were exactly the reasons why I liked it.
You know what? I have to say I liked Mary Jane in this film a lot more. Even though she is super whiney she just seemed more sympathetic this time through.
Oh.. umm... There might be :spoiler: in this post. Just saying.
Everybody I was with absolutely loved it. I loved it too. Sandman was awesome, and I'm so glad they protrayed him with such love. Venom was... well... The symbiote was scary as heck, because it's Sam Raimi, but Venom himself I thought laughable. Oh Topher... Especially that voice of his. But whatever.
What I DID like was Harry. I thought he was very nicely handled. And his weirdo costume/board actually turned out pretty cool, I've got to admit. It's just a shame they cramed all this into the one movie, since I found his change of character happening way too fast. This movie would have worked better as two, probably. As one it is a bit TOO fast. However, I enjoy that over the movie being too slow with nothing of interest happening. All in all, I found it a very enjoyable experience. It probably is my favourite of the three.
Oh, and Lycus, that paticular part had my theatre cracking up. It was pretty hilarious, I thought. But so was emoSpider-Man.
[spoiler]
that wasnt venom, that was ultimate eddie with powers, I never thought i'd say this, but the film would have been better without him, loved everything else tho [/spoiler]
Just got back. Cinema had problems with the projector so had to swap theatres twice. Ah, Vue, my nemesis...
[spoiler]
I, sadly, have to agree with the Bunny. Cool as Venom is/was, removing that whole element would have made this movie ten times better. I'm not as much a stickler for authenticity as the bunny (:lol:) but it just seemed to introduce an element that was too much unbelievable. At least, in the movie-verse. In its own movie, that would have been Venom, to me. Eddie Brock? Check. Humiliated by Parker? Check. Black? Check. Big [expletive deleted] teeth? Check. Tendrils? Sorta check. Creepy voice? Well...it IS Topher Grace. And his voice coming from that is just plain wrong.
There was a lot of little nitpicks that really set this movie down far too much. Not as good as the first two by a long shot. Don't get me wrong, a GOOD movie, an AWESOME movie. Bruce Campbell, Yay! (though why Pete doesn't recognise him...) Flash Thompson in the funeral scene, Yay! (Nice touch, bringing in old characters) Stan Lee finally getting a line, Yay! The whole Harry aspect-except-for-cliche-amnesia-and-death...Yay!
But, as most good movies, they tried to fit FAR too much into too short a time. Short? Did I say short? I meant monstrously long (Yeah, yeah, 15 minutes more than usual. Tell that to my bladder ;) ) If they'd focused on Sandman, with the Harry sidenote, then this movie would have been excellent. But, with Venom mixed in, and especially that suit and its effects (OMG MY EYES KILL THE JOHN TRAVOLTA EMO!) it drags it out unnecessarily long. And how many endings? After Harry died, I got out of my seat. Then funeral scene. Got out of seat. Jazz time...Forgot to get out. Lord of the Rings has a lot to answer for. Got growled at by angry frat boys whod sat and laughed all. the. way. through. But thats another story.
I'm not surprised this is the most expensive movie since King Kong. I mean, wow. Major flashiness. Loved the fight scenes. Loved pretty much everything except that alien.
[/spoiler]
To sum up - Too much in too little time. Remove Venom = happy happy.
Now...off to get ready for London. Woo. Kill me...
I'm in agreement. I thought the film juggled the character fairly well up until rushed scene where Venom bumps into Sandman into the alleyway. Then the quality of the film seemed to slide and things started to bug me, like:
:spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler: :spoiler:
* Harry's butler.
* The comic-y webbing that Venom created when MJ was held hostage.
* The increasingly simplistic dialogue
* The rushed resolution of the Sandman's plot
* Harry's sudden transformation into a super-hero and his corny dialogue
* Why did Venom need the Sandman to kill Spider-man anyway? Just in case Spidey fell on the ground?
Also, Gwen and Captain Stacy were essentially throw-away parts with fairly well-known actors playing the roles (what was the point of that)?
Ideally, the film should have focused on Harry and the Sandman (perhaps Harry could have set Peter up to fight Sandman, has a change of heart, battles Sandman himself, then conks out from effects of the Goblin Gas on his heart), and ended with Eddie Brock in the church with the symbiote dripping towards him.
On the plus side, the action sequences were fantastic, Sandman was magnificient (the way he brought himself together by 'tensing' his body was amazing), it was never boring, and I enjoyed evil disco Peter (at that point I realised Raimi wasn't taking the movie very seriously ... perhaps a bit of rebellion at the forced inclusion of Venom?).
Well, here's something I never thought I'd have to say about a Spider-Man movie:
I was deeply, deeply dissapointed. I was also very frustrated, because what they got right- they got SO right. But I detected the influence of The Fantastic Four all over this movie and not in a good way- they committed every sin the FF movie committed (Badly shot battle scenes;character moments that should be played straight played for laughter; dragging out unfunny and unnecessary jokes for too long; time that shouldve been spent advancing PLOT and STORY with ACTION wasted on cheap, stupid setups.) and it hurt worse here, because I don't expect that level of hackery from Raimi.
And then they added insult to injury because everytime they did something wrong they would follow it up with something so right, so perfect, that I would say "Oh, that was just an aberration; the rest of the movie will be excellent"- only to be let down again and again and again.
Follow me into the spoiler section, True Believer- if you DARE:
[spoiler]
Ok, lets get the stuff I didn't mind out of the way first:
I knew they couldn't have Reed figure out about the Symboites vulnerability to sound. I thought theyd have professor Connors do it, but I can live with Spidey working it out on his own.
While it was painfully obvious that Bryce Dallas Howard was shoehorned into the movie as a warning to Kristen Dunst ("Yeah sweetie, you go ahead and drop out of #4, we can replace you without even breaking a sweat") I thought she was excellent as Gwen (both in terms of looks and acting job) and would have no objection to her replacing MJ as Petes gf.
I would've prefered both a funky voice and Venom referrring to himself as "we" when he wasn't indulging Topher Graces need for face time (By the way -somebody needs to sit these folks down and force them to watch V for Vendetta until they get it through their heads that it is perfectly possible to do a phenomenal acting job while being in a mask the whole darn time!!!), but overall, I thought he was fine. Not anywhere close to the excellence that was Thomas Hayden Church as Sandman, but there's a reason one of them is Oscar nominated and one isnt.
I really thought I was going to be intensley irritated by them retconning it so that it was Sandman who killed Uncle Ben, but they handled it really well- and the scene between Spidey and Flint near the end of the movie was one of the standout scenes.
I would've liked Flint to have a bit more control over his abilities.
Now the things that irritated me:
Nowhere near enough action. The battles they had were done really well (except for the first one- what the heck was up with the camera? I haven't come that close to losing my lunch in a theater since The Blair Witch Project. The team-up battle at the end, easily my favorite battle in the series, though). spider-man is supposed to be an action movie with some character development, not some soppy character piece with just a tinge of action.
Character moments that should be played straight played for laughter- I understand that you want to show the effect the suit has on Peter(making him more agressive, etc). You don't show this by that idiotic sidewalk strut sequence (especially to non-comics fans- there were murmurs of "what the hell is he doing" everywhere around where we were sitting). And you don't compound your error by letting the joke stretch on way after it had ceased to become funny. 5-10 seconds of the sidewalk scene (well ok it was never gonna be funny), might have been tolerable. Nearly a full minute was cringe inducing and time that could've been spent much better elsewhere; such as the Peter/Harry fight. When Pete catches the Goblin Bomb, whips it back at Harry and walks away without looking back- THAT is how you properly show the effect the symboite is having on him.
Speaking of stupid jokes that got dragged on too long- does anyone ACTUALLY believe that JJJ would allow an intercom buzzer so loud it shakes his desk? Buzzing him once when he was about to take the pill causing him to spill it woouldve been funny. The number of times they did it was unbeliavable and overkill.
The movie was rife with crap scenes that served little to no purpose. This is the first time I've ever been tempted (once it comes out on DVD) to do my own cut- I could cut 25-30 minutes of unecessary fluff easily. Thats almost a half an hour that couldve and shouldve been devoted to revealing more plot and story and additional action.
Mary Jane's firing- gone. It's not her story, we don't need to see that, the mention to Harry was more than eough. Ditto for her job search. Hell, we didn't even need to see more than a few seconds of her musical number (btw, does anyone know if that was actually Kirsten singing? Cause I always thought she had a nice singing vocie, till tonight, anyway)
I've already mentioned that ridiculous sidewalk sequence- drastically reduced.
Ditto for that nonsense at the jazz bar with Pete on the piano- gone. All you need is Pete getting in MJs face and the fight.
The bits with his landlord- gone. Unnecessary.
The stupid reporter- drastically reduced.
The stupid setup with JJJ and the kid with the camera. Stupid joke at the wrong time.
I could go on and on.
How would I have improved the movie? Cut the nonsense- moved the creation of Venom up to the middle- used the extra time to expand on the symboite(better examples of how it affects Peter- why and how it bonded with Brock- the abilities it gave him) and Harry- more of his father taunting him- more action.
Now Im making it sound like I hated it and I didn't(it's certainly no Elektra). I liked it. Maybe my expectations were too high - I expected something as good as, if not better than #2, and what I got was around the level of X-Men III/Ghost Rider.
Not a bad movie, but nowhere as good as it couldve/should've been.
[/spoiler]
Given that its almost certainly going to shatter box office records, who do you think will be the villians in #4? I figure they've got Electro, Mysterio, Kraven and Vulture before they have to start using the silly villans.
Next up: "SINISTER SIX!" ;)
By the way I was entertained by the movie, wish they could of got someone else to play Venom. But the actor for Sandman was dead on!
Brendon, I agree with everything you've said. Really. Spot on.
I liked it, but it should have/could have been much better. Still, I liked it.
Well, I'm rather surprised by the disappointment I'm hearing here. I thought it was FAN-FREAKING-TASTIC! Seriously, I thought it was really great, and all the things people have been complaining about, like the 'strutting' and stuff like that, I found hilarious. Yeah it was goofy, but that's part of Rami's style, does no one remember the similar part from the second one? Anyroad, I do think it could have been better, but that's always true. It was a great movie, really compelling, and I thought that just about everything was handled really well.
My only real critque was:
[spoiler]Harry didn't really need to die, story wise. There was too much time between his redemption and his death for it to have the impact they were going for, so it was unecessary, and somewhat out of place. I don't think it took that much away from the movie, although my wife swore that she'd never watch it again because it made her so sad. ;) Still, I really LIKED the over the top buddy feel of their last fight, and I thought that Harry was handled SOO well this movie, even including the 'cliched' bump on the head thing. I think that was a great device that really worked. [/spoiler]
The final fight was absolutely visually astounding, I mean, REALLY amazing, and I loved the hopeless, heroic nature of the first part of it. There's nothing more moving than a last stand. Ahh, this movie was REALLY worth the wait, and I'm deffinetly going to see it again.
i watched it last night and it was freakin awsome man :thumbup:
harry!!
i did like the movie a lot. the action scenes were way to fast for me, i couldn't really tell what was going on in the fights.[spoiler]no way harry is dead. did peter even check his pulse? harry sort of turned his head and closed his eyes. and parker started crying. again. even in the real world, that's not necessarily dead. but, ok, it was a symbolic death. in the movies, he's surely just regenerating.
[/spoiler]
I just happened to be back in the US this week and I caught this yesterday at the matinee (it's good to be on vacation). I wasn't very impressed with the story. I'm guessing from Eddie's comments about Spidey being too chubby was a nod to the change in animators, but it's just a guess.
the effects were awesome and I like that they reversed the roles of MJ and Peter...Spidey in the spotlight while MJ was was...infamous. The movie also had some great laughs. JJ's dialogue was much better than it was in SPM2.
I thought MJ and Stacy weren't too attractive. Dunst really looked worn out to me by comparison to the first two films.
I don't remember the symbiote ever being "red kyrptonite." It made for great humor though.
Overall this was a very good movie but I didn't get into it like I was able to during the first two. In fact it seemed the audience was happy that it was over. People started clapping a good 5 minutes before the movie was over and sighed when they saw more was left. No one stuck around for closing credits. There just wasn't enough build up to Spidiey's battles...there was no real evil villian talk to build up to the last battle. I don't understand why Sandman would help Venom and I didn't see any power increase from the new suit. The movie tried to do too much, but did it much better than Batman Forever.
The F4 trailer was cool. That Sue Richards.....ooohhhh mama!
One sentence review of Spider-man 3: There was just too much.
Details follow...
[Spoiler]
Too many villains: I'm not quite agreeing that the movie should have had Sandman instead of Venom, but it definitely should have had one or the other, not both. I thought Topher Grace did a good job of playing Eddie Brock as a sort of Bizarro-Peter Parker, which I can live with as a change. Harry as Goblin jr. would have worked with either since we've already had a lot of character development for him in 1 & 2, but there just wasn't time enough or attention enough, & Sandman & Venom both felt rushed. Sandman's retconn as the actual murderer of Uncle Ben added nothing really, and Sandman's storyline got no resolution. Venom, who I don't believe was ever called that in the film, got some development time as Eddie, then he got the symbiote and went instantly to "hey Sandman, I read the script & know what's motivating you. Let's team up & kill Spider-man!"
Too many storylines: we had MJ & Peter's rocky relationship, Peter's brush with his emo-side, Harry's revenge/redemption, Sandman's crimespree to fund his daughter's medical treatments, and Eddie Brock's arrival & fall from grace. Most of these didn't receive enough time or focus to properly develop or resolve them. I don't think Harry's storyline was well-handled either. When he was bumped on the head, he seemed way happier & unlike himself from even the beginning of the Spider-man 1. Then he got his memory back & took such joy in messing with Peter (sidenote: MJ knows Peter is Spider-man, so why does she just roll over & do what Harry says, instead of telling Pete?). When Emo-Spidey beat the crap out of him and gave him some straight-talk, he deserved it. He understandably turns Pete's request for help down, what with the arse-kicking, daddy-issues and the disfigurement, but then his freakin' butler tells him the same thing Pete's been saying for 2 movies, and he just is Pete's best friend again, willing to sacrifice himself for Peter? I don't buy it.
Too many characters: this is somewhat related to too many villains, but then Gwen Stacey & Capt. Stacey were both added, but were given almost nothing to do. I think Capt. Stacey, played by James Cromwell of all people, had one or two lines, maximum. Then there was Harry's weird butler coming out of nowhere as Exposition Man, as mentioned before, & Stan Lee's increasingly-obnoxious cameo.
[/spoiler]
Despite the above problems I have with the movie, I still enjoyed it. It was better than X-Men 3 or Blade 3, but it's definitely in the same league as them, and quite a step-down from the awesome Spider-man 2. Marvel's not having a lot of luck with 3rd entries in their franchises so far.
its even better then fantastic four!
Sorry, this is really petty ... but did Tobey Maguire look a little chunky in this movie? Maybe it was just time and gravity, but I thought he had a bit of double chin going on ... didn't he, Topher Grace, Sandman guy and James Franco have to get in shape for this film?
i did notice that too when he was walkin "cool"
I wanted to see the movie, but I couldn't because of family duties. From what I'm hearing I'm getting mix reviews, but this one bothers me the most:
http://www.pcgamer.com/archives/2007/05/spider-man_3_ki.html
Is the Veede right about this?
as i mentioned before, parker is very weepy. but when i go into a theater to see a comics movie, i enter a state of euphoria. and that was the only thing that really distracted me.
Venom looked so cool, but I really, really hate how they included him. Raimi didn't want to do Venom to begin with, and as a result he basically half-assed it. Venom honestly should have had a movie of his own. spider-man 3 could have been more focused on Harry and Sandman, with peter getting the suit halfway through the film perhaps, and then a spider-man 4 could have dealt with Peter's separation and Brock's bonding with it. They just didn't develop Venom enough. Brock gets the symbiote, and a few scenes later he magically knows how to swing perfectly on webs and create massive nets. I mean, if the symbiote granted Brock this knowledge from its stint with Spidey, they could have at least shown him figuring it out.
Bah. And they couldn't just "defeat" Venom, they had to actually kill him and the symbiote to prevent any further appearances by Venom.
Quote from: The Pwime on May 06, 2007, 07:24:03 AM
Bah. And they couldn't just "defeat" Venom, they had to actually kill him and the symbiote to prevent any further appearances by Venom.
i do have to agree with that. harry, maybe dead, probably not. just healing. got the goblin gas to do that. but you can see brock's skeleton in the explosion.
i suppose there might be more of the symbiote floating around tho.
Saw Spider-Man 3 last night, and I loved it. I hadn't read much online about how Raimi felt about Venom, but I can totally see how he was reluctant to use Venom in this movie. I enjoyed Venom. I thought Topher was a good anti-Peter, and I was extremely relieved that "Venom" didn't look ridiculous. However, I agree that the Venom storyline could have been a whole different movie. My one complaint was this, "They have got to STOP killing off the villians at the end of the movie!" I think X-Men has been the only movie that has kept the super-villian alive to be used later (Although I am not sure if Doom died in the FF movie or not...Let's hope so).
Definately a good movie. I liked it better than the first two.
Quote(Although I am not sure if Doom died in the FF movie or not...Let's hope so).
Nope, Doom is back, in a more traditional style, in the second movie, trying to steal the Surfer's powers.
did anyone get free spider man comics at the theatres?
i did!
Saw Spider-man 3. Was not disappointed in the least. It was fantastic. I don't understand where the bitterness is coming from. Most of our group thought it was as good, if not better, than the 2 previous installments. If you'd like you can read The Movie Boy's Review: 3.5 of 4 stars (http://www.themovieboy.com/reviews/s/07_spiderman3.htm).
re: killing Venom. I thought the fact that Peter gave Dr Connors a piece of the symbiote to do ... well, absolutely nothing with ("it makes its host more aggressive" no sh it!) kept the door open for a Venom/Carnage appearance in future films.
DAAAAAMN! I completely forgot about that leftover piece! :doh:
Ok. I just got back.
*sigh*
I'm a bit disapointed. Where to start...
[spoiler]
1. I think Spidey had about 5 minues of screen time where his face was covered. Hey, Tobey...Nobody cares if they see your face. Get over yourself. You play a guy in a mask. You agreed to play a guy in a mask. Put on the darn mask and don't take it off. If you don't feel you can act in the mask, perhaps we need to recast you with someone who can. That said, however, I completely expected this after the trainwreck in/of Spidey 2.
2. It seems like Spidey is underpowered in this movie, like he is missing a power. Oh, yeah, isn't he supposed to have a Spider sense that allows him to avoid blows and not get his head smacked around so much?
3. It's really easy to learn his secret identity. Just become a villain of his. He'll just TELL you who he is. When Gewn began to unmask him for her smooch, she may as well have completely removed it. Tobey would not mind.
4. The jive walking was ridiculous. The most unbelieveable part: the notion that New Yorkers walking by him would have paid him any attention at all.
5. The jokes throughout this film were all misplaced and terrible. I know Raimi thought that it needed some levity to balance out the moodiness of it. He was wrong.
6. It also seems that just by wearing the suit, it dyed his hair black.
7. I didn't like how Sandman was the Shooter, intentional or not. I was waiting for it to be a scam. It was also not like Peter to just let him go (not that he could have stopped him). This means that Spidey will not ever intercede to prevent Sandy from stealing all the money he wants. While I'm at it, since when can Sandman FLY? Otherwise, Church did an excellent job.
8. Not sure why, but several people in my theater cheered when Pete backhanded MJ to the floor. I'm sure that wasn't Raimi's intention.
9. As others have said, Venom should not have done much in this film. Eddie should have only become Venom in the last couple minutes of the film, with this movie ending with his triumph of spirit to get the thing off of him.
10. I don't think Harry should have been killed in the exact same way as his dad, even if it was to save Spidey.
11. It was wrong for Venom to imperil MJ to get to Peter. Granted, comic Venom did this, but comic Eddie didn't date Gewn. He was dumped by Gwen. She should have been there. Pete would have been even more responsible for her safety, since the only reason she was there was because of Peter's using her to get back at MJ.
Like most comic movies I see lately, they always fall short in the area of writing. Every single gripe about this film (with the exception of Tobey's arrogance and Kirsten, miscast from the start) can be fixed by a script doctor. A great many of the problems can be traced to improper characterization. Some of it was ok, but only some of it.
Does every villain really need to be personally connected with him? There are enough without inventing more corrolating origins. I cannot wait until the next one, where it will be revealed that Adrian Toomes was the mortitian who dressed Uncle Ben for his burial and hid something in the coffin. And Electro will be a lineman that goes to Aunt May's house to fix her power lines. Mysterio will be the fx guy stalking MJ on her inevitable movie role.
For the amount of Hype and money spent, there is no reason for this level of incompetence.
[/spoiler]
I will give the nay-sayers, this, they REALLY did need to keep the masks on, I don't need to see his face to know he's sad/angry/what have you.
I agree with the majority of the criticisms so far, but I will defend Peter's jive-walk and Travolta dance to the death ... I thought it was genuinely funny. It would have been worse if they'd made Peter 'conventionally' cool ... the walk/dance was really Peter's attempt at being cool, from his own dorky perspective.
However, the jazz club was too OTT.
PS in regard's to whoever mentioned spider-man not using his 'Spider Sense' in the film to avoid beat-downs ... the few times Harry nailed Spidey, he was travelling extremely fast. And Venom can bypass Peter's 'Spider Sense', although this wasn't explained in the film (but should have been).
i like the part where he kissed gwen stacy in front of mary jane
Quote from: Pyroclasm on May 06, 2007, 03:57:04 PM
Saw Spider-man 3. Was not disappointed in the least. It was fantastic. I don't understand where the bitterness is coming from. Most of our group thought it was as good, if not better, than the 2 previous installments. If you'd like you can read The Movie Boy's Review: 3.5 of 4 stars (http://www.themovieboy.com/reviews/s/07_spiderman3.htm).
thank you!
anyway, in other news, Spidey 3 just destroyed
all previous box office records, so start looking forward to a fourth installment :D
Well you can read above my own thoughts about the movie, but I certainly didn't hate it, and I've got to respond to some of the criticisms.
First - it's not Tobey Maguire who decided to take the mask off for all those scenes, that's how it's scripted because the mask doesn't allow for much emoting. Agree with that or not, whatever, but blaming it on Tobey Maguire's arrogance? That's just silly.
Venom doesn't trigger the spidey-sense, though the movie never mentioned that, as noted.
Further Spider-man sequels had already been confirmed before this even opened; the question is whether Sam Raimi, Tobey Maguire & Kirsten Dunst will return for any more.
I finally saw it today... and also picked up the Spider-Man 2.1 DVD as well while my family was out running errands.
I LOVED IT!!! And my son and wife were also quite happy with the way the film turned out as well.
[spoiler]My single nitnick in the film is some of the gaping holes they left in the story (i.e. going from realizing how much the symbiote was changing him to suddenly ripping it off in the church bell tower & the peice of the symbiote left behind in Conner's lab) but I'm not sure if that was bad editing or intentional scripting. I'm probably going to assume that Raimi has lots of cut scenes he had to eliminate for the 2 hour manditory summer film time limit and will restore them on DVD eventually.
I felt the Emo-Peter and the Street-Strut played off quite well with the audience that I viewed it with because everyone was laughing at the right moments and seemed to understand that Peter couldn't be "cool" if he wanted to because it just wasn't in his nature. However my wife and I agreed that an alien symbiote who had only been on Earth for a few days would be able to allow him to play piano like an expert even if Peter just took some lessons a few times which the alien drew it's knowledge from. Okay, maybe that counts as a second nitpick.
My wife did love how Kirsten Dunst played her role reversal this time around and Bryce Dallas Howard being introduced as Gwen Stacy (and I had to explain the whole brief history of her to my wife after the film was over).
Venom and Sandman were pulled off well visually but I have to admit that Topher Grace didn't quite pull off the Eddie Brock role. Even my wife mensioned that he left a great role on "The '70s Show" to go after a film career and literally did it for nothing if that was the best acting he could pull off. Thomas Church however did work perfectly as Sandman and my wife was hoping that he might return as a hero in a spin-off or sequal somewhere down the line.[/spoiler]
Of course my son loved every single moment of the movie and was lost playing with his Spider-Man 3 video games for hours after we got home.
- CrimsonQuill
P.S. I'm still hoping that everyone will return for Spider-Man 4 because I really want to see Peter & MJ finally get married and have The Lizard and Mysterio (and I wish Bruce Campbell himself would play that role) as the villians then throw in Black Cat as the misunderstood character that time around.
Quote from: Talavar on May 06, 2007, 09:08:28 PM
Well you can read above my own thoughts about the movie, but I certainly didn't hate it, and I've got to respond to some of the criticisms.
First - it's not Tobey Maguire who decided to take the mask off for all those scenes, that's how it's scripted because the mask doesn't allow for much emoting. Agree with that or not, whatever, but blaming it on Tobey Maguire's arrogance? That's just silly.
To think that Tobey Maguire has no input on the script is silly. Theres no doubt in my mind that if Tobey wanted the mask to stay on the whole movie it would've.
As for the mask not allowing emoting, I once again refer you to
V for Vendetta. It's complete proof that its possible to put forth a phenomenal performance, emoting and all, in a mask the whole time.
i'm absorbing the 'parker trying to be cool and looking stupid' comments, and i realized something about myself.
when i saw him, i thought, 'wow, he's really being cool here. look at him dance! i wish i had a symbiote that would let me be that cool and dance that well.'
I feel you.
My girlfriend turned to me during that scene and said 'that reminds me of you'. How embarrassing....
Also, returning to the "why kill the villains?" point ... not only was a piece of the symbiote still alive in Dr Connors lab, but they made a bit of a deal about Harry having a healing factor (MJ pointing out the cut on his head had disappeared) in this movie. So I'm guessing this leaves the door open for Harry or Norman to return from the grave in future sequels to "off" Gwen Stacy.
Quote from: Jakew on May 06, 2007, 11:22:35 PM
I feel you.
My girlfriend turned to me during that scene and said 'that reminds me of you'. How embarrassing....
Also, returning to the "why kill the villains?" point ... not only was a piece of the symbiote still alive in Dr Connors lab, but they made a bit of a deal about Harry having a healing factor (MJ pointing out the cut on his head had disappeared) in this movie. So I'm guessing this leaves the door open for Harry or Norman to return from the grave in future sequels to "off" Gwen Stacy.
woa! i didn't think of norman! what he isn't even dead? harry wasn't hallucinating norman's voice! norman was actually talking to him! trying to drive him insane.
To be honest I liked but felt that there was too much going on, it should have really been 2 movies, sandman for the 1st and Venom for the 2nd.
Saw it a couple of days ago- thought I'd post my thoughts before reading the thread.
I enjoyed it. However, I thought it was the weakest of the three movies. It seemed to me that they tried to cram a lot more story into the movie than its length really allowed (actually, I felt a little that way about the first movie, too, but I thoguth they pulled it off better with that one). Still, it was fun, although it seemed like it would have been somewhat confusing to people who were'n't familiar with Spidey's history.
Some thoughts (with a lot of spoilers):
[spoiler]
Sandman was great. It was kind of anoying that durring the big "final battle" he was in "giant sand-being" mode, though- it was more fun to watch him fight Spidey looking like, well, the Sandman. I also wish he had gotten a little more screen time. Still, he was well-casst, well-acted, and his associated effects were great. His origin scene was spectactular. Not sure how I feel about the way he was tied to Spidey's origin, or the changes made to his motivation- they may have worked better for me if the movie had taken the time to develop those things better. It also bugged me that at no point did we see him get his "Sandman" name- toward the end, he's suddenly called that on the news out of thin air.
Gwen Stacey- I'm glad they found a way to include her. However, it bugs me a little that there was nothing serious between her and Peter, although, given the structure of this series of movies, it was pretty much inevitable. The thing is, Mary Jane isn't Lois Lane; I've always thought it was a mistake when her relationship with Peter is treated as some sort of fated, inevitable thing. I think it's entirely possible for two people to fall in love and work very well together without having the sense that they were always meant to be together, and to me Gwen, even if she wasn't killed off, should play the role of the "great almost was". Not sure I'm explaining that very well... Still, I'm kind of glad they didn't kill her off...
Harry- I think there were a lot of structural problems with the way Harry's story was handled.
after the build-up in the second movie, it seemed strange that for most of the movie he wasn't one of the "primary threats", and that his role always seemed to be to support the other plots, rather than having a major plot of his own. Still, it was great to see him and Peter work together at the end- it had a great "old high school buddies working side-by-side as super heroes" vibe to it. I always thought Harry should have become a super hero (on a regular basis), anyway... One thing that did kind of bug me was the lack of explaination as to why it took the guy who worked for him so long to tell him about his father, though.
Venom/Black Costume- The fact that a meteor containing an alien symbiote just happened to land, completely unnoticed, right next to Spider-Man, of all people, strained even my comic-book-trained acceptance of coincidence. I think it was probably the single weakest part of the film. I also didn't think much of Spidey's black costume- it was okay, but it should have been better. It did look a lot better (distorted) on Venom, though. I liked Venom's look, but I don't think the movie took much advantage of that look- he shold have come across as scarrier. It also bugged me that he never called himself Venom, at least, that I noticed...
Spider-Man- It really, really bothered me that Spidey had his mask off so much- that was the biggest flaw in the second movie, and it was even worse in this one. Come to think of it, it always used to bug me in the comics when Spidey would stand on top of a roof with his mask off pondering things, too... I have mixed feelings about Spidey's popularity in the movie universe, but as long as he keeps running into personal problems anyway, it doesn't entirely ruin the "Spider-Man Essence". It does seem strange, in a world where Spidey's so popular, that the newspaper that gets the most action shots of him doesn't sell better, though... Peter under the influence of the balck costume was well done. I found it painful to watch him being a jerk, which it should have been. Still, many people in the audience seemed to find those scenes funnyer than they were painful.
The music- It kind of bugged me that they used goofy, campy music durring some very serious parts of the film. Otherwise, I generally enjoyed the music. [/spoiler]
Overall, I had a good time, but the movie didn't stay with me afterward to the same extent that the first two did. After seeing how well Dr Octopus was done in the second movie, and Sandman in this one, I'd really like to see the Sinister Six on screen.
Jeezis people - respect the :spoiler:!!!!
I was a good boy and didn't even step foot in this thread until after I saw the movie. But if I hadn't, in the last page and a half I would learn that
[spoiler]Harry dies, Brock dies, Symbiote dies (except for a small piece), Peter kisses Gwen and probably a couple of other key plot points![/spoiler]
Quote from: Protomorph on May 06, 2007, 06:33:03 PM
Ok. I just got back.
*sigh*
I'm a bit disapointed. Where to start...
[spoiler]
2. It seems like Spidey is underpowered in this movie, like he is missing a power. Oh, yeah, isn't he supposed to have a Spider sense that allows him to avoid blows and not get his head smacked around so much? [/spoiler]
[spoiler]
Yeah, they should've really cut some of the crap scenes and used the extra time to make it clear in the movie that Venom negates his spider-sense. As for the hits he took from Harry, IIRC the only time Harry hit him was when he was trying to recover the ring, and I took that to mean that the ring was important enough to him to override the Spidey Sense. [/spoiler]
Quote from: Protomorph[spoiler]
4. The jive walking was ridiculous. The most unbelieveable part: the notion that New Yorkers walking by him would have paid him any attention at all.
5. The jokes throughout this film were all misplaced and terrible. I know Raimi thought that it needed some levity to balance out the moodiness of it. He was wrong.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
<EdMcMahan> You are correct, sir! </EdMcMahan>
[/spoiler]
Quote from: Protomorph[spoiler]
6. It also seems that just by wearing the suit, it dyed his hair black.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
That didn't bother me too much- I figured it was just the symbiote covering his hair [/spoiler]
Quote from: Protomorph[spoiler]
7. I didn't like how Sandman was the Shooter, intentional or not. I was waiting for it to be a scam. It was also not like Peter to just let him go (not that he could have stopped him). This means that Spidey will not ever intercede to prevent Sandy from stealing all the money he wants. While I'm at it, since when can Sandman FLY? Otherwise, Church did an excellent job. [/spoiler]
[spoiler]
A) In Pete's defense, I took Sandman's sunrise speech to be a suicide speech. I figured he'd given up and was just going ot let himself dissolve. I was very surprised to see the cloud swirling away. I actually think it wouldve been a much improved ending if Sandman had allowed himself to dissapate and Venom had gotten away rather than Venom apparently being destroyed and Sandman living.
B) As for Sandman being able to fly- he never has in the comics, but its a fairly logical extention of his power (well, not so much flying as gliding on the wind- if he can keep a bunch of sand looking human by sheer force of will, theres no reason he couldnt keep a cloud of sand coherent enough to glide) so that wasnt really a problem for me. [/spoiler]
Quote from: Protomorph[spoiler]
Like most comic movies I see lately, they always fall short in the area of writing. Every single gripe about this film (with the exception of Tobey's arrogance and Kirsten, miscast from the start) can be fixed by a script doctor. A great many of the problems can be traced to improper characterization. Some of it was ok, but only some of it.
For the amount of Hype and money spent, there is no reason for this level of incompetence.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
You know I disagree with you about Kirsten. I think shes been an excellent MJ. It does, however, amuse me no end that Kirsten, a natural blonde was cast as the redhead and Bryce, a natural redhead, was cast as a blonde.
However I am in complte agreement with your last sentence. There is no reason for this level of hackery. spider-man (not to mention us fans) deserved way better.
[/spoiler]
Quote from: bredon7777 on May 06, 2007, 09:40:24 PM
Quote from: Talavar on May 06, 2007, 09:08:28 PM
Well you can read above my own thoughts about the movie, but I certainly didn't hate it, and I've got to respond to some of the criticisms.
First - it's not Tobey Maguire who decided to take the mask off for all those scenes, that's how it's scripted because the mask doesn't allow for much emoting. Agree with that or not, whatever, but blaming it on Tobey Maguire's arrogance? That's just silly.
To think that Tobey Maguire has no input on the script is silly. Theres no doubt in my mind that if Tobey wanted the mask to stay on the whole movie it would've.
As for the mask not allowing emoting, I once again refer you to V for Vendetta. It's complete proof that its possible to put forth a phenomenal performance, emoting and all, in a mask the whole time.
Yes, I'm sure Tobey Maguire wrote large sections of the script. Kirsten Dunst may have directed some scenes as well. V, for much of his character, is a cipher, a total mystery. We get emotion from his dialogue, and revealed over the course of the film, but Natalie Portman is the point of view character, it's her emotions that the viewer is meant to identify with. Spider-man isn't set up to work that way; the viewer is supposed to be seeing events as Spider-man sees them. I agree myself that Spider-man's mask comes off way too much in these movies, but that's why it comes off.
Just remembered an extra nitpick -
[spoiler]Since when did Spidey become partially invulnerable? Especially in the Harry flight, he gets his head battered against buildings, thrown INTO a wall, thrown THROUGH a building...I mean, yeesh. That should be, at the very least, some broken bones, but theres no bruising or even soreness[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
Quote from: Sevenforce on May 07, 2007, 04:18:20 PM
Since when did Spidey become partially invulnerable? Especially in the Harry flight, he gets his head battered against buildings, thrown INTO a wall, thrown THROUGH a building...I mean, yeesh. That should be, at the very least, some broken bones, but theres no bruising or even soreness.
Superstrength could make him more durable all by itself. Since his muscles are stronger, they can take more damage. But yeah, I see your point.
[/spoiler]
:spoiler:
If you're going to question Spidey's "invulnerability", then you've gotta ask how Dr Octopus didn't get knocked out after one punch in spider-man 2. A bit of suspension of disbelief is required.
Quote from: Talavar on May 07, 2007, 02:11:17 PM
Quote from: bredon7777 on May 06, 2007, 09:40:24 PM
Quote from: Talavar on May 06, 2007, 09:08:28 PM
Well you can read above my own thoughts about the movie, but I certainly didn't hate it, and I've got to respond to some of the criticisms.
First - it's not Tobey Maguire who decided to take the mask off for all those scenes, that's how it's scripted because the mask doesn't allow for much emoting. Agree with that or not, whatever, but blaming it on Tobey Maguire's arrogance? That's just silly.
To think that Tobey Maguire has no input on the script is silly. Theres no doubt in my mind that if Tobey wanted the mask to stay on the whole movie it would've.
As for the mask not allowing emoting, I once again refer you to V for Vendetta. It's complete proof that its possible to put forth a phenomenal performance, emoting and all, in a mask the whole time.
Yes, I'm sure Tobey Maguire wrote large sections of the script. Kirsten Dunst may have directed some scenes as well. V, for much of his character, is a cipher, a total mystery. We get emotion from his dialogue, and revealed over the course of the film, but Natalie Portman is the point of view character, it's her emotions that the viewer is meant to identify with. Spider-man isn't set up to work that way; the viewer is supposed to be seeing events as Spider-man sees them. I agree myself that Spider-man's mask comes off way too much in these movies, but that's why it comes off.
Calm down there, Tiger. I'm not claiming that Tobey wrote large sections of the script, but to claim he has no impact on the script is silly. There are hundreds upon thousands of examples of actors getting lines, scenes, and even scripts rewritten to suit them, so you might want to turn the sacasm down from 11. :D
Do I have any evidence that the script was rewritten to include more "face time" at Tobey's request? No.
Do I doubt that said evidence would be fairly easy to find? No.
Do I care enough to dig up said evidence? Once again, No.
As for
V for Vendetta while I certainly give you that Evey was the character the audience was supposed to identify with. I had no problem figuring out what Hugo Weaving was
emoting even with the mask on. Now granted, that may just be because he's a better actor than Toby, but that is neither my fault, nor my problem.
If you read any comic book, or watch any superhero cartoon or most movies, it seems like every single character in them has a form of invulnerability, because even the non-powered ones are always being puched through walls and such without really being hurt.
You just have to accept that comic book physics are a little wonky and leave it at that.
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on May 07, 2007, 05:46:47 PM
You just have to accept that comic book physics are a little wonky and leave it at that.
Plus you have to understand that his movie costume is made of far sterner stuff then the spandex variety of his comic counterpart. Excuse the uber geekism moment but the fabric of the costume is made from an impact resistant sports material reinforced by the raised webbing over it. I would assume that it would take some serious abuse before ripping and the mask always seems to take the most abuse in these films to show more "face". Hence why I like logic behind the movie costume - why wear something into combat if you didn't plan on having it provide some protection.
- CrimsonQuill
Saw it. Loved it.
It was a popcorn flick, not meant for deep thought. I didn't go in there to see how it was screwed up, or to find the best parts among the dirt. I went because the Raimi/Maguire/Dunst team delivered some solid films the last two times and did the same here.
Sandman was off the charts cool. Venom/ Black Suit Spidey less so. But the fights and the strategies were brilliant, right out of the comic books. My only real regret is that Harry bit it in almost the same way his dad did. He works so well with Spidey.
My one nitpick is the "Xtreme" Goblin.Sure the new glider is cool, but I was hoping to see a particular goblin, in orange. What I got was "X-games Armor Harry." Not the best choice in costuming.
Man, I'm way on the other side of the fence here. Bredon and Proto are on the same track, but they can't even see me. It's clear this is my minority opinion, but my thoughts of this movie were shades lower than a steaming stinky pile of monkey crap. I thought it was abysmal. I could go all day listing the problems I had with this, but those who do and don't have pretty much illustrated the exact same problems with it being a corny, disconjointed, busy, rushed mess. Seriously, it means something when everyone points to the same problems. It means it was actually a problem.
Either way, I'll abbreviate a review I did earlier.
[spoiler]First of all, it's worth mentioning that they did with this movie, exactly what I was afraid they would do when I first heard they would be taking this direciton. They tried to implement, developed and resolve four over-arching storylines in one 140 minute movie. There was the Peter/Harry relationship. There was the Peter/MJ/responsbility dynamic. Then you had your two villains; Sandman and Venom, both with their own characters, backgrounds and identities. They just tried to do too much with all of these, spending too much time on some, and hardly any on others. Things seem to advance and happen with very little or barely credible explanation. The story was aweful. We're first supposed to accept that Peter Parker dual-life is perfect, and then spend so much time on his relationship with MJ and a ****ing play. I mean, this wouldn't have been so bad if it didn't take up about a hour and a half of the whole dang movie, knowing that not only you have to introduce Symbiote Spidey, but Venom and then there's Harry and Sandman to contend with. There simply was too, too much in this movie that should have been left out. It's like Raimi knows he won't be doing a Spider-Man 4 and because of that, he decided to take everything he wanted to finish and plop it in this one...
One thing that truly aggrivated me throughout this was the characterizations, depictions and action and ultimately fates of these characters. First, let me start with Gwen Stacy. Frankly, she really should have been in the first movie and quite simply, she should have died then too. That's one thing I was waiting for her to do in this movie, oddly; die. Because that's pretty much what she's known for in the actual comic... Next, I'll harp on Peter/spider-man himself. Now, one thing we saw with the first movie, that the second movie portrayed splendidly was the idea of Peter Parker being a flawed, imperfect and less than fortunate superhero. In fact, that was part of what made the character so special to begin with. You could empathize with this guy. He had all of these crazy powers and could do all kinds of cool stuff, but he was still bullied in school, the girl of his dreams doesn't know he exist, he struggles between a job with a boss that hates him and schoolwork that he can hardly keep up with. I'm sure all of us have had a problem or two like he's had and that what made him endearing. And to top it all of, he's spider-man. In this movie, all of that pretty much evaporated. We were first seen with him enjoying his life. He got the girl, got the fame, got the respect and is happy, not a care in the world. We're then introduced to a new side of him where he's hip and cool, brash, arrogant and really ****ing corney... Next there's Harry Osborne... his whole storyline seemed wierd that he not just decided to up and kill Peter for what he did to his father five years ago, but the design was horrible. Not only that, but he just suddenly snaps out of amnesia and snaps out of his hate for Peter(even after he blew off his face) just to help him at the end... The whole mess of MJ breaking up with Peter was poorly handled. He say do this or Peter dies. I would have said "he's ****ing spider-man. He whupped your daddy and Dock Ock all while Jonesing for me." It was so hard to take seriously... And now Sandman. It's really simple. HE DOES NOT FLY! Quick, someone tell me the last time they've seen flying sand? You don't! It's rather wind blowing it or it's Imotep from the Mummy films, but sand don't fly. Two, HE'S A SAND-MAN, not a Sand MONSTER... Lastly, there's Venom... he was previously mentioned in the other films, he's not a new guy, but all of sudden he is.
It seemed not to take itself seriously. It had odd plot devices. Like the butler telling Harry his father killed himself(as if he supposed to know anyway) all of this after Pete approaches him from out of nowhere asking for his help. You just whipped his arse, not even 20 minutes ago and now you want his help to save your girl that he forced to break up with you? Someone tell me what was the purpose of a freakin' dance number straight from Bettlejuice smack in the middle of the movie? That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me there. During and after that I could barely look at the screen. And as funny as it was why in the world was Peter Parker acting like A Pimp Named Slickback, shaking his arse and pointing at girls giving them dirty looks? I know the symbiote, makes him act aggressive and brash, but that was simply over the top... And poor Dylan Baker has pretty much wasted his time over the last three movies. Again, they tried to do four heavy storylines all at once and it came out a mess. First of all, Venom should have had a complete sequel to himself. But it seemed crammed and rushed and did not come out well at all and that's besides all of the other problems it had. How does a pumpkin bomb kill an alien being and human being, but only scratches Harry Osborn's face? And I'm sick and tired of spider-man being so dang cavalier with this secret identity. It's a secret identity. Unless this is Civil War, act like it's a secret identity.
Frankly, it makes The Punisher and Daredevil seem like good ideas all of sudden. At least I could watch those again. I can't watch this again, even if I wanted to. I just cannot bear to sit through it. The only redeeming value I can pull from this is maybe the videogame will be some good, but that'll probably only remind me of a movie that was utterly horrid. I've never been this disappointed by a movie since Lord of the Rings. It wasn't serious. It was a sad attempt at cash. It was God-awefully corney. It stunk. There was just so many problems with this, it was horrible. It was pathetic. It was crap. It was worse than crap. It was diddly-poo.[/spoiler]
Yes, I know I was mighty harsh. But that's how I feel. What's so strange is, I loved the first two Spider-man movies. It just far to often got to the point where I said, "I can't believe I'm seeing this."
hey shogunn,
"How does a pumpkin bomb kill an alien being and human being, but only scratches Harry Osborn's face?"
He'd inhaled the Goblin gas, which made him tougher and gave him a healing factor (ie the way he survived his initial rumble with Spidey when he flew into the web strung across the alleyway). And I think he was wearing armour under his clothes too. So obviously the bomb messed him up, but he'd healed to a degree when Peter returned to ask for his help.
Quote from: Alaric on May 07, 2007, 04:47:34 AM
Overall, I had a good time, but the movie didn't stay with me afterward to the same extent that the first two did. After seeing how well Dr Octopus was done in the second movie, and Sandman in this one, I'd really like to see the Sinister Six on screen.
I'm guessing you'd have to wait until Spider-Man 6 for that to happen. Seems like they're adopting the trend of having a number of villains equal to the sequel number...
Saw it. Loved it. 'Nuff said.
Quote from: Jakew on May 08, 2007, 04:42:41 AM
hey shogunn,
"How does a pumpkin bomb kill an alien being and human being, but only scratches Harry Osborn's face?"
He'd inhaled the Goblin gas, which made him tougher and gave him a healing factor (ie the way he survived his initial rumble with Spidey when he flew into the web strung across the alleyway). And I think he was wearing armour under his clothes too. So obviously the bomb messed him up, but he'd healed to a degree when Peter returned to ask for his help.
Seriously, you don't think there's a difference between a healing factor and totally vaporizing two complete beings?
Hmm, perhaps it was a different caliber bomb. I mean, it's entirely possible he had more than one type.
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on May 08, 2007, 11:20:31 AM
Seriously, you don't think there's a difference between a healing factor and totally vaporizing two complete beings?
I have the "Making Of" books for all Spider-Man movies and they establish that Green Goblin had 3 types of bombs... Blade, Disintergrating, and Explosive. Norman used explosives and blades most of the time in the first movie and used a few disintergrating bombs on those suits who stole his company. Harry used mostly blades and a few explosive ones especially during the Sandman fight - the only time I saw the disintergration version was when Peter used one at the end of the battle. It's hard to tell which version is being used but if you look closely enough at the bomb each is shaped and colored slightly different.
- CrimsonQuill
I'm also going to get nerdy and mention Venom has a weakness to fire, making him more susceptable to the bomb, and Eddie was just a weedy human.
It closed up the first three movies well, either ending the franchise, or setting it up for newer sequels. Special FX and action was great. It was just more of a movie than a comic book, as the first two were. The part in Spidey 2 where he loses his powers reminded me of the streetwalking/bar scene. A little too long and tedious..
ok I finally went to see this film, I was disappointed to say the least. What happened to vemon referring to himself in the third person?
I was really hoping for that.
He'd had the suit for like twelve hours. Hadn't had a chance to even give himself a name yet.
:/
And can anyone give me a coherent explanation why [spoiler]Captain and Gwen Stacey were at Harry's funeral? At what point in the movie did either of them have anything to do with Harry?[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Well, I think I can make sense out of that. At his death, it would have been revealed that he was the Goblin, and that he had helped save the city. Therefore, it would make sense for a police captain to attend, and if he were attending, it's possible that his daughter might as well.[/spoiler]
Anybody notice in Jameson's office:
[spoiler]The framed front page article "Doc Ock Still At Large?" That was a nice touch.. shows that no death is very permanent in Superhero-world. And makes it possible for a comeback![/spoiler]
Also
[spoiler]I agree that some of the comedic scenes were over-milked for all they were worth. Peter Parker dancing down the street, then checking out chicks... putting on a black outfit... then dancing in the street AGAIN, then getting scoffed at by chicks AGAIN... made me groan the second time around. The point had been made and it was funny the first time.
The Jameson buzzer-surprise happened just one time too many also. It was funny, but done too much, it treads into juvenile territory.
The camera joke with the little girl was hysterical though, I thought. "Ya little crook!" "Film is extra!..." It was a very New York moment. I love how NYC again became a character in the movie. But I could have done without the melodramatic newscaster... she was bad. Really bad.
Otherwise, I have nothing but praise for Spidey3. The action scenes and the fighting were stellar, the best I've seen in a Superhero movie. I have no fear that the superhero-movie trend is anywhere near its end, as long as they keep up that level of excitement. Hear that, DC and Bryan Singer? Lets have some freakin' super-villains already![/spoiler]
Quote from: Revenant on May 11, 2007, 01:12:14 PM
Anybody notice in Jameson's office:
[spoiler]The framed front page article "Doc Ock Still At Large?" That was a nice touch.. shows that no death is very permanent in Superhero-world. And makes it possible for a comeback![/spoiler]
[spoiler]Uh, that was obviously an old paper. A current one wouldn't have been framed like that. It doesn't mean Doc Ock's still around.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Sandman is the only villain to survive the Spider-Man franchise thus far. That is assuming of course Venom is dead. Am I the only one who finds that strange?[/spoiler]
Actually, we really don't know for sure that Doc Ock is dead. We saw him floating in the water, but later time he was out his arms came to life. They easily could have saved him this time around.
I agree with cat on Doc Ock. I didn't think he had a final real life death, but a comic book style vanish-into-the-abyss-so-he-can return-later-death. I'm not even positive Green Goblin is "truly" dead either. I mean, that's a trait of his character: Seemingly die, only to return yet again. And without finalizing his death with a funeral pyre, I wouldn't put it past the serum to heal him eventually...
[spoiler]...Or for the serum to heal Harry, for that matter.
Anyone notice the "movie" scorpion and lizard figures in the S3 line? Would be cool if they're based on S4 concept work. Maybe in S4, since Eddie is dead, the symbiote finds its next host: The Scorpion[/spoiler]
I think they left the door ajar for a possible return of Doc Ock.. that newspaper article could go either way. It was a nice detail, but without comparing the date of the article to the date Spidey last fought Doc Ock (which is impossible) we'll never know. But since it was there, I'd like to think Octavius has made an appearance after his seeming demise and is still at large.
[spoiler]
I also think Eddie Brock and both Osbournes have a shot at coming back. Venom and the Goblins have such awesome visual potential. Then again there are a lot of other Spidey villains to mine, too. Maybe the death of Gwen Stacey in the next sequel (you know that's coming) can spur Eddie Brock/ the symbiote to resurrect itself.. and build a new army of Spidey rogues?
[/spoiler]
Oh yeah....
[spoiler]When Spidey exploded the symbiote and Eddie ran to it, did anyone else think that Brock and the symbiote would become irrevocably fused by the heat??[/spoiler]
Quote from: Revenant on May 12, 2007, 10:59:57 AM[spoiler]When Spidey exploded the symbiote and Eddie ran to it, did anyone else think that Brock and the symbiote would become irrevocably fused by the heat??[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Actually a couple of people I was with thought that. They thought that a glob would reform Venom, as a fused being. Heh. Parallel thinking. :)[/spoiler]
[spoiler]i think lizard would appear in the 4th one and i like cookies with nuts in them. i think thats how peter got weight. [/spoiler]
I still don't know what to think about "X-games ninja" harry. I almost think I like "Power Ranger" Norman's costume. at least mask wise. I can see why plot wise they would have used that costume/mask for harry but I still would have rather had something more "goblinesque" and I liked how his story played out.
[spoiler] Sandman bothered me toward the end because they built him up as a victim of circumstance type villian but at the very end he was perfectly happy to put an inoccent person in danger to lure spider-man to try to kill him. I really liked how harry/peter played in this battle but I would have rather seen, as someone earlier suggested, this carry over into a 4th film and these events take place there. And instead of Venom/sandman it could have been some other type of villian like the scorpion or someone more motivated to kill spider-man and put someone in danger to do it [/spoiler]
Quote from: Ares_God_of_War on May 12, 2007, 05:29:18 PM
[spoiler] Sandman bothered me toward the end because they built him up as a victim of circumstance type villian but at the very end he was perfectly happy to put an inoccent person in danger to lure spider-man to try to kill him. I really liked how harry/peter played in this battle but I would have rather seen, as someone earlier suggested, this carry over into a 4th film and these events take place there. And instead of Venom/sandman it could have been some other type of villian like the scorpion or someone more motivated to kill spider-man and put someone in danger to do it [/spoiler]
[spoiler]Sandman's been portrayed like that a lot in the comic. It's brought him from villain to hero and back to being a villain.[/spoiler]
As for the 4th . . . I think Kraven and The Lizard will be the villains with teasers of other villains (The Osbornes) still being alive. Since 4 5 and 6 have been announced, I think we could see a building of a "Sinister Six" by time 6 roles around or a rematch between The Goblin, Venom and Spidey. Only The Goblin will be Norman not Harry.
Quote from: Mr. Hamrick on May 12, 2007, 07:39:37 PM
Quote from: Ares_God_of_War on May 12, 2007, 05:29:18 PM
[spoiler] Sandman bothered me toward the end because they built him up as a victim of circumstance type villian but at the very end he was perfectly happy to put an inoccent person in danger to lure spider-man to try to kill him. I really liked how harry/peter played in this battle but I would have rather seen, as someone earlier suggested, this carry over into a 4th film and these events take place there. And instead of Venom/sandman it could have been some other type of villian like the scorpion or someone more motivated to kill spider-man and put someone in danger to do it [/spoiler]
[spoiler]Sandman's been portrayed like that a lot in the comic. It's brought him from villain to hero and back to being a villain.[/spoiler]
As for the 4th . . . I think Kraven and The Lizard will be the villains with teasers of other villains (The Osbornes) still being alive. Since 4 5 and 6 have been announced, I think we could see a building of a "Sinister Six" by time 6 roles around or a rematch between The Goblin, Venom and Spidey. Only The Goblin will be Norman not Harry.
I don't think we will ever see the sinister six in the movie franchise while Raimi is in charge. It's not that the sinister six is a bad idea it's just too many characters in one movie. Heck this one had too many side plots imagine what it would be like with six villains. They should keep it down to a max of two villains, anything more and it gets too cluttered.
I just got back from seeing Spidey 3 and loved it. I do agree that Venom should have been in Spidey 4 and not crammed into this one. Anyway, I didn't stay for the end credits, was there a secret scene at the end of the credits?
Quote from: captmorgan72 on May 12, 2007, 10:36:44 PM
I just got back from seeing Spidey 3 and loved it. I do agree that Venom should have been in Spidey 4 and not crammed into this one. Anyway, I didn't stay for the end credits, was there a secret scene at the end of the credits?
Sadly, no.
i took the wife and kid to see, and they had interesting comments, that no one here has mentioned yet, with all the crazed fanboy disections.
i noticed my wife giggling when no one else was, when parker was feeling guilty over being emo, or reaching a non emo state of mind. the realization scenes, ya know? i asked and she said the instance he becomes emo, he gets eyeliner. any non emo expression, even the same scenes, generally no liner, or much less if so.
i was trying to figure this out. maybe it's tiny eyelash symbiote? or maybe, he's afraid of his mascara running while he's doing all his weeping.
my duaghter, gemma, six years old, halfway thru the movie says, 'he needs to put his red and blue suit back on.'
I'll make a few minor comments on aspects that I haven't seen critiqued yet in this thread:
[spoiler]
There was one improvement over Spider-Man 2 that I really liked. The directors did a much better job of deciding how long extras need to scream, and how much film time needs to be dedicated to said screaming. Spider-Man 2 had a few scenes where the camera would remain on a person who screamed... and screamed... and took another breath and screamed... Spider-Man 3 had much tighter, more believable scared citizens when mayhem was going on.
Criticism: did they cast any women extras that didn't look like they came from a modeling agency? I remember the scene in the physics lab right before Flint gets zapped. Every single one of the scientists - male and female, for that matter, looked like they had just finished getting their headshot photos for the latest round of casting calls. Your average scientist does not look that well-sculpted, or well-groomed![/spoiler]
Quote from: bearded on May 14, 2007, 08:44:44 AM
i took the wife and kid to see, and they had interesting comments, that no one here has mentioned yet, with all the crazed fanboy disections.
i noticed my wife giggling when no one else was, when parker was feeling guilty over being emo, or reaching a non emo state of mind. the realization scenes, ya know? i asked and she said the instance he becomes emo, he gets eyeliner. any non emo expression, even the same scenes, generally no liner, or much less if so.
i was trying to figure this out. maybe it's tiny eyelash symbiote? or maybe, he's afraid of his mascara running while he's doing all his weeping.
my duaghter, gemma, six years old, halfway thru the movie says, 'he needs to put his red and blue suit back on.'
you got a smart family, you should be proud.
i hope the film doesnt get too dated with all the emo-ness (i hate myself for saying that, i considered myself part of the emo subculture 6-odd years ago, back then it was clean cut hairstyles and cardigans.)
I *heard* that the SM4 villains would be the Lizard and...Carnage. I'm very hesitant to believe the latter, because:
- It's SO early after SM3. I cannot stress that enough. This factor alone puts the b-s meter at about 90% or higher.
- Raimi hated the thought of putting Venom in a film, and it showed in the quality of the character's portrayal, so why on earth would he put the "spinoff-of-the-spinoff" in the fourth film? :rolleyes:
- It's Carnage. Can anyone see that working out too well, movie-wise?
i love carnage!
i hope they make the character look crazy in sm4
i hope tobey would come back! :)
OK:Upthread I believe some people expressed concern about Flint flying away on the wind. There is textual evidence for him using this: Specifically Nova 17 and 18.
So the DVD came out this Tuesday. Who picked it up and what version? I got the 2-Disc special edition on regular DVD.
Now for my personal opinion of the movie since it came out before I registered here. Fair warning, this has major :spoiler: and it's a huge wall of text so if you feel like reading a lot, have fun. :P
[spoiler]The movie was above average, but not nearly as good as the first two (especially 2), thus making it the weakest in the trilogy, and ultimately slightly disappointing. One critic put it like this: the trilogy ends with a hobble, when it should have soared.
The movie had a great outline and a perfect potential to conclude the trilogy with everything that it had, despite characters being shoe-horned in (more on that later). The main problems that lie in the movie have much more to do with direction than the actual screenplay or story, and that to me is what is so disjointing about the film, because it appears as though Sam Raimi almost collapsed from the weight this film carried while trying to keep his own style.
I'd say about 2/3rds of the film actually live up to the juggernaut this film was. Raimi keeps his characters true to what they've been throughout the films past and knows how to explore their relationships further and fleshing out. The main problems start to lie, however, in the mere fact that the last 1/3rd of the film drops logical character interaction and motive for spectacle, action, and special effects. First, I want to talk about each of the characters themselves:
Peter Parker/Spider-Man: Tobey was great up until, and it pains me to say it, when he gets the symbiote. It's not its place in the movie that bothers me, it's how Raimi handled it. Raimi has always been fantastic in keeping the themes of Spider-Man true in his movies. In this movie, it was supposed to be darker. Much darker. Guys, how in the world is his new haircut supposed to amplify this theme? It doesn't. In fact, it practically makes it laughable. After he "kills" Sandman, he looks in a mirror and decides to brush his bangs down and mess with his hair some. This was completely unnecessary, and in fact detracts from the film. More people in the theater laughed their butts off at this silly concept. Somehow, in Raimi's eyes, becoming selfish and evil means you have to change your hair to a more "emo" style. Second of all, was the eyeliner makeup really necessary? My god, that scene where he appears in Harry's window was just so pathetic. This was supposed to be a dramatic scene, and it starts off with laughter (I'll get into Raimi's comic relief soon). And then, oh yes, the strutting scene and, worst of all, the jazz club scene. The strutting scene was reminiscient of the "Raindrops" scene in Spidey 2, I agree. It made everyone laugh. But in all honesty, Spider-Man 2's themes were much different, and that scene was appropriate, as odd as it was. The one in Spider-Man 3, however, did NOT fit in the overall theme of Peter going bad. But this scene is hardly even comparable to the Jazz club scene. Guys, when a scene in Spider-Man 3 reminds me of a very similar scene in the movie Anchorman, starring Will Ferrell, something is really, really WRONG. I cannot emphasize this enough: the jazz club scene is so terrible that it nearly ruins the entire movie. Yes, i thought it was that bad. In the 3 times I've seen this movie, this scene makes me cringe EVERY time. "Now dig on this..." God damn it Rami. Why would ever put this in?
Besides the emo haircut, the terrible jazz club scene, and to a lesser extent the strutting scene, the one thing that bothered me was how Peter could physically choose whether or not to wear the black suit, until he conveniently couldn't take it off. I know Raimi wanted the suit to symbolize substance abuse, but come on. It doesn't make any sense or logic that he can take it off at will, but suddenly can't in the bell tower.
Now for the villains:
I thought New Goblin carried the movie. Really, in the previous 2 movies, James Frano's acting was a bit rough around the edges (especially in 1) but by 3 he's really learned some good acting chops. All of his fight scenes were fantastic. However, I didn't really care for the costume. In no way, shape, or form, does it even resemble a Goblin. Why couldn't they have made his mask Goblin-like at least? He's only seen wearing it once or twice in the film anyways, so why not make it look like a goblin instead of a paintball mask?
Sandman was excellent. I'm a bit torn on how they made him Uncle Ben's killer, but I guess it works more or less. Thomas Hayden Church is a great actor and perfect choice for the role. The only time I didn't like him was when he mindlessly teamed up with Venom.
Venom. Oh Venom. I think everyone agrees with me on him. Not enough screen time. Not nearly enough development. No "we are Venom" no explanation on his abilities or his threat to Spider-man. He seems to be pretty much there for the fanboys, which is a shame. I liked Topher OK, and I'm torn on Venom's voice. The number one thing I thought was stupid though, was the fact they felt the need to kill him off. They could have easily "killed" off the symbiote, and left Eddie Brock webbed up by spider-man to be taken to jail. Really, killing off Eddie was unnecessary. And the message in the webbing was easily the cheesiest thing in the entire series next to that awful jazz club scene.
Now for some nitpicks:
why on earth did they make the butler the catalyst for changing Harry's mind? That was completely out of left field. Venom teaming up with Sandman was pretty random as well. And I didn't like how MJ seemed pretty forgiving of Harry even though he threatened Peters life and even attacked her and forced her to break up with Peter. Speaking of MJ...anyone else really tired of the same old "villain captures MJ" cliche? I want to see her defend herself for once.
Here's what I would have changed:
-no emo haircut, strutting, or jazz club scene. Make the dark side of Peter completely serious
-change the breakup scene. I don't know why, but it just felt awkward
-instead of the strutting and jazz scenes, have more development for Venom
-if you're going to have Sandman and Venom team up, I'd have them at least know eachother on some kind of personal level beforehand. I thought maybe having Marko's now-dead partner end up being Brocks step-father or something, maybe being tied in that way.
-instead of Venom capturing MJ, I'd have him torment Peter in a way the goblins never did, actually using stealth, threatening his identity to the city (maybe mentioning JJJ or something) sort of like how he did in the cartoon, and then maybe teaming up with sandman to have the whole need for Harry teaming up.
-get rid of the damn news reporter at the end. "Oh the brutality of it!" UGH!!!
-last but not least, don't kill off Brock. Disposing of the symbiote in an ambiguous way is good, but not Brock. Just web him up, send him to jail, etc.[/spoiler]
If you've read this long, I thank you. Don't be fooled by all my griping though. In the end, I actually did enjoy the film. But it has problems, and plenty of them. I liked the movie, but it's easily my least favorite of the three. I think the movie would have fared better if either Sandman or Venom were left out entirely. Both essentially work (although could have been much better implemented) but if one was left out, the other could have had so much better development.