Spider-Man 4, and more

[TheMarvell]

I've been playing Spider-Man 3 on my 360 lately and have been thinking of the movies and their future. As of right now, all we know is that Sony plans on making at least 3 more films (4, 5, 6) with or without director Sam Raimi and Toby McGuire. Raimi and crew have said that if Sony would hire them back, a good script would have to be written and, well, you know the drill. The most recent news is that Raimi expressed interest in eventually having Spidey battle the Sinister Six.

With that said, here are my ideas for the next few films:
Warning: BIG post:

[spoiler]I think the next movies villains would probably be Lizard and Kraven (Lizard especially, and Kraven just because he'd fit really well with Lizard). Even though Spider-Man 3 the game used this story element, I don't think that would matter with the next movie. Lizard seems like the most likely choice for the next villain, especially considering we already have an established actor playing Dr. Connors and Sam Raimi likes the Stan Lee originals. Kraven could be an interesting character in the movie if done right. But it could create an interesting dynamic because both villains would be a threat to Spidey, but he's trying to protect one villain from the other, while both are attacking him.

Other than the obvious Lizard-Kraven story that most fans predict, I think using the Scorpion as the main villain would be another great choice, maybe for the 5th movie. In the cartoon (and the original comic I believe...not sure) Scorpion was basically created by J. Jonah Jameson because Jameson hates Spider-Man and thinks he's doing the city a favor by creating Scorpion to get rid of him. This could really expand and flesh out Jameson's character, but at the same time it might go against Raimi's already-established "comic relief" Jameson in the movies. In addition to Scorpion, the Black Cat could also be introduced as a villain at first, but later an ally against Scorpion. The original Black Cat was Felisha Hardy, but I feel for the movies, it would be rather silly to introduce yet another blond girl connected to Peter. So, going against all the comic geeks and perfectionists out there, I think it would be cool if Gwen Stacy, played again by Bryce Dallas Howard, be Black Cat, thus creating more tension between MJ and Peter, as she is now an even greater threat to MJ than before since she can now do superhero things with Peter while MJ can't.

since they're making six movies, for the sixth Spidey film, I think the last villains should maybe be Venom and Carnage. I don't know how they'd explain the return of Venom but I'd like to see this last Spidey film really take the time to explain symbiotes and have Carnage truly be a menace to the city. Since Dr. Connors is grateful to Spider-Man (and possibly Peter, since in every movie so far each villain knows who Spidey is...) for "curing" his lizard disease in a previous film, he explains further what the symbiote is capable of doing and warns him that the piece he was studying has escaped (perhaps also saying the symbiote is capable of replicating DNA, thus explaining Venoms return). The symbiote piece left behind in his lab escaped since his lizard accident and managed to replicate back into Venom/Brock, and in the process reproduced asexually, thus making Carnage. The two feel the need to wreck havoc on the city believing everyone, especially Spider-Man, did them injustice. The Black Cat returns in this film as Spider-Man's ally and they try to take them down but fail. While Venom is trying to take his personal revenge on Spider-Man, Black Cat tries to take down Carnage (taking personal revenge on him because early on in the film, Carnage could kill Captain Stacy), but Carnage ends up killing Black Cat. A beat-up Spider-Man tends to a dying Black Cat, and Venom, still having feelings for Gwen, feels betrayed by Carnage after this and ends up fighting him, but Carnage is still too strong. Venom escapes, and Carnage continues his, well, carnage across the city. Spider-Man, blaming himself for Gwen's death, is consoled by MJ, and she encourages him that he can't give up now while so much is at stake. In a scene of personal struggle, Venom swallows his pride and teams up with Spider-man to take down Carnage. Dr. Connors helps by creating a toxic bomb of some sort that could destroy a symbiote (something similar to how he "cured" his lizard disease). In the finale, it's Venom and Spidey vs. Carnage, and Carnage seems to be winning. When it appears like Carnage is about to kill Spider-man, it's Mary Jane who saves him by momentarily attacking an off-guard Carnage (perhaps by screaming into a megaphone or something). Venom decides that earth is no place for symbiotes and decides to take whatever Dr. Connors makes (a toxic bomb or whatever) and tackles Carnage as the thing detonates, thus killing off both of them permanently. At the end of the film, Peter and MJ finally marry.

One thing I definitely want in future sequels: NO MORE MJ IN DISTRESS WHILE SPIDEY STRUGGLES TO SAVE HER. This has happened in three movies already, we don't need it again. I want to see a stronger MJ, someone who fights instead of just waiting for peter to save her. If they decide to have her kidnapped by a villain again, at least do something different with it.

[/spoiler]

I know Sam Raimi expressed interest in doing the Sinister Six eventually, and even though the comic geek in me would love to see this, I feel it wouldn't work in the movies. Three villains was pushing it in SM3...having 6 would just be insane.

If Raimi could build up 3 more movies leading to the Sinister Six in the sixth movie (how fitting), and make it work, then by all means, but I'd rather see fewer fleshed out villains than a circus romp at the end...and would he bring back Doc Ock from the dead? I don't know, I'd rather see something closer to my ideas, lol.

[bredon7777]

[Spoiler]

NO MORE SYMBIOTES, EVER!  I hold Venom in large part responsible for Spidey 3 being the steaming pile of <bleep>-fest that it was; though to be fair, the new X-Treme Goblin really didn't help matters any.  Seriously- I don't have a link, but if you dig a bit you can probably find Raimi's original treatment for Spidey 3 out there.  It called for Sandman and Vulture, and would've made a much better movie.

So allow me to revise your plotlines slightly.

Your Spidey 4 with Lizard and Kraven sounds fine.

Spidey 5, however should feature the Vulture, and a new Superhero trying to catch him; while at the same time it looks like Spidey's committed a series of robberies. Thats right folks - its time for Mysterio (fishbowl helmet and all)!  Of course, the film should end with both Vulture and old Fishbowl head carted off to jail swearing to get spider-man next time.

If you want to do the sinister six in Spidey 6, you probably only really have time to introduce one new villian - a small time crook who happens to break into an abandonded Oscorp building and finds some abandoned gear, as well as an abandoned computer desgined to keep track of media reports about spider-man.  Looking at those reports, with the help of the computer, he finishes the gear and puts together a team of Spidey villians to take Spidey out forever- lead by himself, the HobGoblin, and including Kraven, Lizard, Mysterio, Vulture and either a reconstituted Sandman or a new Doc OC (built by having the arms take over an unethical scientist who was studying them); either one of those could be easily and quickly introduced in the sixth movie.

The symbiotes were the worst idea ever introduced in the comics (until this One More Day crapfest). They were resposnbile for ruining Spidey in the late 80's early 90's and for severely degrading the quality of the movie franchise. 

So in closing, let me repeat: NO MORE SYMBIOTES, EVER!

[/spoiler]

[captainspud]

Here's how I'd do Lizard/Kraven:

-It's too cramped to get into Dr. Connors losing an arm, so I'd just have him researching healing in a general way, followed by the traditional lab accident and subsequent transformation. I'd do the accident in-class, with Peter watching, something like ten minutes into the movie.
-Peter spends 30 minutes chasing him, mostly unsuccessfully.
-Weaved throughout, we get some shadowy shots of Kraven reading the newspaper, seeing the Lizard story, boarding a plane, etc. Have Peter do the clicheed "brush up against the villain in a crowd and get a funny feeling about him" thing.
-Ten minutes after, Peter gets some idea about how to trap the Lizard. He chases him down into the sewer. Chase chase chase, run run run, small scrappy fights, more chase chase chase... Lizard ducks around a corner, and we hear a sharp hiss.
-Pete rounds the corner: Kraven has skewered the Lizard. Bye-bye Lizard. Pete flips out and tries to wail on Kraven, but K somehow evades him.
-Insert random Peter personal junk.
-Interweave with Kraven, bored and frustrated that even The Lizard was a complete joke. Then the sudden realization that Spidey's a better hunt. Mad cackling, etc.
-Spidey responds to something very public-- a bank robbery, or something. He shows up and punches the goons, and then Spidey-sense-evades a flung spear. Looks up: there's Kraven.
-Intense fight/chase scene where Spidey realizes this guy can actually kick his arse. Spidey gets away.

The ending can go any number of ways... long story short, Kraven somehow does track Spidey down, and either gives up or gets his arse beaten. I dunno. Either's fine. :D

I'd just like to see Spidey fight a lower-key villain. Pitting him against someone skilled instead of powered would be a nice change. Plus, it'd be a shock to the Spidey fanboys to see the person they thought was the main story villain get killed halfway through. :D

[the_ultimate_evil]

[Spoiler]

NO MORE SYMBIOTES, EVER!  I hold Venom in large part responsible for Spidey 3 being the steaming pile of <bleep>-fest that it was; though to be fair, the new X-Treme Goblin really didn't help matters any.  Seriously- I don't have a link, but if you dig a bit you can probably find Raimi's original treatment for Spidey 3 out there.  It called for Sandman and Vulture, and would've made a much better movie.


The symbiotes were the worst idea ever introduced in the comics (until this One More Day crapfest). They were resposnbile for ruining Spidey in the late 80's early 90's and for severely degrading the quality of the movie franchise. 

So in closing, let me repeat: NO MORE SYMBIOTES, EVER!

[/spoiler]

[spoiler]see this little wonderfull thing called opinions is everyone has one and thats yours. you post simply reeks of fanboyism i dont like the idea so i blame it for everything. the concept behind venom is a great idea and has been portrayed as such in the comics, in some the best spider-man storyies. yes marvel went overboard on a good idea thats no question. carnage worked cause it gave venom a foe for where the character was heading, but the rest was overkill.

but i never understood the deep fanboy hatred for the symbiotes, the idea didnt ruin spider-man 3 it was simply the over crowding and stupidy of the plot to many villains and under developed characters. the idea of peters darker emotions and venom could have made for a great dark look jounry for the character,and they should have paced it better, have peter get the black suit in 3 fight snadman and harry , at the end nearly kill harry and force the suit off in the bell tower leading to a total venom story for 4, allowing the venom character to be fully fleshed out over the course of 2 films.

personally i couldn't care less for sandman but i dont blame all of the films faults on his inclusion and characterisation.


i do agree venom now that he has been shown shouldn't appear in another film but he shouldn't have been killed off, that way there could have been a more adult spin off which carnage could have been used to he true basis and everyone could have been happy  [/spoiler]

[Sword]

Spud, your idea rocks. I would add in the fact that Kraven only managed to wound Lizard, and Connors, after a period of convalescence, goes out for revenge, stalking Kraven while Kraven is stalking Spidey.

I'd like to see Rhino, Scorpion, Shocker, Vulture, Electro and Mysterio working together as a Sinister Six, and have them all tie back into the Jameson's hatred for Spidey. He secretly funded their projects(except for Mysterio who's rich enough to do his own stunts) Get down into a lot of fight scenes, and though Spidey manages to beat them once each, they gang up on him in the middle of central park. This pretty much steals the advantage of webslinging, and they move into kill Spidey and claim a bounty.

As Mysterio reaches for the mask, Shocker and Electro are bodily removed from the frame, in opposite directions. Vulture is dragged down from the air by some unseen force and Rhino is rocked off his feet by an explosion.

In one of those Face-time moments, Peter looks up and the camera follows his gaze to Doc Ock, robo arms swinging around. "You look like you could use a few extra hands, Peter." Reforming behind Ock is Sandman and hovering over their heads is Harry in a new goblin suit, using a glider rather than his hoverboard.

Cue a totally awesome fight scene, where 1)Doc Ock manages to suplex Rhino 2) Spidey dodges a double blast, causing Shocker and Electro to hit each other 3) Harry duels the Vulture high above the ground, dogfighting the old codger. 4)Sandman catapults Scorpion in mysterio, causing the illusionist to lose focus.

At the end of the fight scene, the police arrive to cart away the Six, and find them held in place by sand, webbing and bent steel. Doc Ock and Sandman look at each other and also hold out their wrists for the arrest. Then the movie cuts out with one last remark from Doc Ock "If you need help, Spider-man, just call. You never know who'll answer." thus setting up the possibilty of team-up movies.

[Talavar]

I have serious doubts about the workability of the sinister six in a film.  The biggest problem with Spider-man 3 was that it was too crowded.  Characters bizarrely changed motivation, teamed up or fought based on short lines of expository dialogue that barely covered what they were doing, let alone providing good reasons for why they were doing it.  And that was only with three villains & one other major new character (Gwen Stacey), one of whom had his storyline building for 3 movies (Goblin jr.).

[ow_tiobe_sb]

I would like to add that [spoiler]if the franchise chooses to feature Kraven, I would like to see the writers have Kraven drug and bury Spider-Man alive (per the events detailed in the comics), which would provide a death-rebirth motif that could tie in with the (merely) apparent death and later return of Dr. Connors/The Lizard discussed above ('twould also resonate with the healing/regeneration research that Dr. Connors pursues).  Spider-Man and The Lizard could then team up against a common enemy and make the hunter the hunted. 

We are practically guaranteed an appearance from the lizard, given the frequency with which Connors has been on screen--'tis only a matter of time.[/spoiler]

ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and [THIS SPACE AVAILABLE FOR LEASE TO NEW DUAL TITLE TENANT]

[TheMarvell]

The symbiote didn't ruin Spider-Man 3. It was the poor pacing, direction, and rush-job that did it. It got carried away with its own popularity, and the studio thought they could do nothing wrong after the huge success Spidey 2 was. Spidey 3 was a financial success sure, but not really a commercial one. It wasn't a bad movie, but it wasn't as good as the first two.

With that said, the reason why I want the symbiotes back eventually is because I feel it really wasn't explained or fleshed out AT ALL in Spider-Man 3. And for the 6th movie, I'd really like to see a true threat, and Carnage fits that bill perfectly. I'd also like to see Venom come back and be truly fleshed out and get a movie he deserves. Love him or hate him, Venom's easily one of Spider-Man's most iconic villains, right along Green Goblin and Doc Ock (thus making him the best choice for Spidey 3, certainly more than Sandman and Vulture).

The Sinister Six would be good too, but this works for the comics and cartoons, not the movies. I'd be very surprised if they somehow made it work, but I just get this feeling it would just be this one big non-stop special effects action sequence romp, and not at all character-driven. And if it was character-driven, I feel like 4 of the 6 would just be throwaway villains in which Spidey ends up taking down early on and with relative ease before he gets to the bigger villains.

While I like Rhino, Shocker, Vulture, Chameleon, Hobgoblin, Electro, Mysterio, and all the other "lesser-villains", I just don't think any of them would have a memorable presence in the movie UNLESS they were all together, but see above.

[spoiler]It's also gone on record that one of the actor's from Spidey 3 said their character that appears to die in Spidey 3 apparently might not be dead afterall. I don't know if this ever was confirmed whoever said it, but we all know it's either Harry/New Goblin or Venom. Personally, I'd rather see Venom return than Harry, as Harry's story arc came to a close in 3, as well as the goblin arc.[/spoiler]

[Jakew]

Just to throw my 2 cents in .... Venom's origin in the film, ie a meteorite which just happens to crash near Peter Parker and Mary Jane, was really contrived.

Having the symbiote as an alien was a terrible idea .... the previous film's had attempted to increase Spidey's "realisim" on several levels (such as giving him organic web-shooters instead of expecting the audience to believe Park could invent them), which they tossed right out the door by having him attacked by an evil space alien.

Pretty much everything about movie Venom was underwhelming.

Of course, the door is open for Carnage in a sequel since Dr Connors took a sample of the symbiote in his lab in spider-man 3.

[captainspud]

Spidey 3 would've been perfectly fine if they left the strip-off-the-symbiote bit until the end and made the creation of Venom into the movie's final reveal. Then Venom as the villain in 4.

[BWPS]

Spidey 3 would've been perfectly fine if they left the strip-off-the-symbiote bit until the end and made the creation of Venom into the movie's final reveal. Then Venom as the villain in 4.

And ditched the dance sequence and didn't continue aweful Goblin design.

Anyway:

Spider-Man 4
by BWPS
The movie opens with Spider-Man fighting off the sinister six. There's not much backstory to them, but Will Arnett plays the vulture. He beats them all by himself and after that it shows Eddie Brock has returned and is out to ruin Parker's reputation by becoming his rival at the Bugle. For some reason, the movie starts following Brock around as he mingles with ladies, takes pictures of Venom and others, and is the best character ever. It's confusing as to why Parker is absent from so much of the film, but no one cares because Eric Foreman is so great on screen. Then we get a one hour + fight between Venom and Spidey (with Arnett making a large appearance as the Vulture), the ending of which shows Spider-Man attempting to win the battle with something lame like getting the people of NY to help (maybe throw in something about 9/11) or getting an extra burst of strength because he thinks about Mary Jane. But he fails and Venom KILLS THE dren out of him. He's dead and Venom (with Foreman's face revealed) looks up to the sky and says, "Thank you, God." and the screen goes black and the Spider-Man 4 logo is written on it when suddenly, black symbiote goes over the word Spider-Man and spins it around and it turns into Venom 4. Then Venom kills the entire Army.

[Talavar]

Spidey 3 would've been perfectly fine if they left the strip-off-the-symbiote bit until the end and made the creation of Venom into the movie's final reveal. Then Venom as the villain in 4.

And ditched the dance sequence and didn't continue aweful Goblin design.

Anyway:

Spider-Man 4
by BWPS
The movie opens with Spider-Man fighting off the sinister six. There's not much backstory to them, but Will Arnett plays the vulture. He beats them all by himself and after that it shows Eddie Brock has returned and is out to ruin Parker's reputation by becoming his rival at the Bugle. For some reason, the movie starts following Brock around as he mingles with ladies, takes pictures of Venom and others, and is the best character ever. It's confusing as to why Parker is absent from so much of the film, but no one cares because Eric Foreman is so great on screen. Then we get a one hour + fight between Venom and Spidey (with Arnett making a large appearance as the Vulture), the ending of which shows Spider-Man attempting to win the battle with something lame like getting the people of NY to help (maybe throw in something about 9/11) or getting an extra burst of strength because he thinks about Mary Jane. But he fails and Venom KILLS THE dren out of him. He's dead and Venom (with Foreman's face revealed) looks up to the sky and says, "Thank you, God." and the screen goes black and the Spider-Man 4 logo is written on it when suddenly, black symbiote goes over the word Spider-Man and spins it around and it turns into Venom 4. Then Venom kills the entire Army.

Sorry, but...what? 

[GogglesPizanno]

And ditched the dance sequence...

No way. That was when the movie totally won me over.

And its pretty well known that the Marvel/Sony wanted venom in the movie and that Raimi didn't.
In as much as the venom storyline feels contrived and it IS poorly handled, I think a lot of it was compounded by Raimi's disinterest in the character.

[TheMarvell]

And ditched the dance sequence...

No way. That was when the movie totally won me over.

...you're kidding right? The jazz club scene nearly ruins the entire movie. No scene in a Spider-Man movie should ever, EVER, remind me of a similar scene in Anchorman. And "Now dig on this" will forever remain one of the worst lines ever said in a Spider-Man movie...

[GogglesPizanno]

...you're kidding right? The jazz club scene nearly ruins the entire movie.

There are so many othe things in that movie that border on ruining it that i cant help but find the whole dance thing awesomely ridiculous. But truth be told it wasn't the best part... the evil peter montage leading up to it...THAT was the best part.  :D

[TheMarvell]

...you're kidding right? The jazz club scene nearly ruins the entire movie.

There are so many othe things in that movie that border on ruining it that i cant help but find the whole dance thing awesomely ridiculous. But truth be told it wasn't the best part... the evil peter montage leading up to it...THAT was the best part.  :D

You mean where he's strutting down the street? That part was alright. It made me laugh the first time I saw it, and it reminds me of the "raindrops" scene in Spider-Man 2. But that jazz club scene.....uuuuugh I won't even start, lol

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

-It's too cramped to get into Dr. Connors losing an arm, so I'd just have him researching healing in a general way, followed by the traditional lab accident and subsequent transformation. I'd do the accident in-class, with Peter watching, something like ten minutes into the movie.

You do realize, he's missing an arm in the last two movies already?

[Outcast]

As of right now, all we know is that Sony plans on making at least 3 more films (4, 5, 6) with or without director Sam Raimi and Toby McGuire.

If they could do a movie 4,5,and 6 without Sam Raimi and Toby McGuire, any ideas on who they could possibly choose to takeover the role of the director and the next spider-man? :huh: Just wondering. :mellow:

[captainspud]

You do realize, he's missing an arm in the last two movies already?

Seriously?  :blink:

[TheMarvell]

You do realize, he's missing an arm in the last two movies already?

Seriously?  :blink:

lol, yeah. Next time you feel like re-watching 2 or 3, take a closer look. He's definitely already missing an arm.  :P

as for possible replacement directors and actors, I haven't heard any rumors or anything. Even though I like Sam Raimi as a director and wouldn't mind seeing him continue the series, I also wouldn't mind a new take on the franchise either as long as they were a good director and knew what they were doing. I think I'd like to see a little more serious tone, and a little less camp.

[BentonGrey]

I personally really liked spider-man 3, and found it easy to forgive the gaffs in story and flow because it was still a very entertaining movie about a character that I love.  Yeah, the jazz scene was a bit ridiculous, and yeah, the villains were rushed and underdeveloped, but the whole thing still worked for me.  Despite how forced the whole Peter/Harry thing seemed at the end, I still loved every second of it, and how that worked out was really touching to me. 

All of that to say that I'm perfectly content with Raimi and Co. giving us chapter four, and I think that Raimi will most likely have learned a lesson from the narrative problems with Spidey 3 that will improve his next crack at the story.

[herodad1]

i liked spider-man 3 but i,m not a big venom fan.love sandman!if i'd have done spider-man 3 i'd have harry osborn( in the goblin suit) with all his money and tech corporations assemble the other 5 of the six.some of the characters could have already been out there just not mentioned.some freelance merc criminals,or harry could create tech weapons for them.my choices of the six would be a washed up to shore but not dead still mentally unstable doc ock,mysterio ,electro, and vulture(freelance criminals),kraven (an obsessed hunter),the rhino(a genetically alteredhuman/rhino hybrid or a cybernetic enhanced being..harrys money),and of course the goblin.at the end just when theyve got him on the ropes help arrives from characters from some of the other marvel movies that were watching the assault...the punisher,wolverine,daredevil,and the thing and johnny storm.let the battle begin!

[GogglesPizanno]

I am still trying to grasp this love of having a gazillion villains (ok 6) taking on spider-man and some possible allies in the form of other comic heroes etc...

If you were talking about a HBO series, then yeah ok.
But I think I lot of these wishful ideas come more from people playing out comic books they've read in their heads, and not from the realities of what happens when you try and cram that many characters into a movie.

Any feature film (and especially comic book based ones) that tries to cram in so much stuff end up failing under its own weight. The X-Men movies skirted this issue by making ensemble movies that really were about one or two characters. The others were basically window dressing.

If they do a spider-man 4, I would like to see a stripped down more personal movie. Single Villain, take the time to build them up and give some emotional weight to the conflict (more like the first film but without having to set up spider-man's back story).

Six super villains pounding on a city for a hour just gets boring if you don't have anything to hang the action on. All action just for the sake of action really is pretty hollow and uninteresting.

[Mr. Hamrick]

Personally, I'd like to see Spidey 4

two villains:
Mysterio (because he is a personal favorite of mine who I feel like never has been used to his full potential except perhaps in that one Daredevil story arc, of all places.)
and The Chameleon

Spidey 5
two and a half villains:
The Scorpion - This one ought to be obvious!  JJ Jameson hires Mac Gargan and outfits him with The Scorpion gear (revamped to be more technical based.  Gargan turns on Jameson which leads him to hire:
Kraven The Hunter, Kraven decided to team up with The Scorpion instead after learning spider-man is the one who incarcerated his brother The Chameleon.   In the midst of all this, Curt Connors becomes The Lizard which leads to a temporary but short lived truce between Kraven and Spidey. 

Spidey and Kraven's fight might even wind up a draw.

leading to part 6

Norman Osborne returns.  With a modified Green Goblin suit (something with a purple hood and tattered cape), he assembles a group of villains to get his revenge on Ol' Webhead.  He springs Gargan, Mysterio, The Chameleon, and hires Kraven.  The sixth person is the person responsible for saving Norman from death:  The Black Cat.  In a twist, Gargan doesn't come back as The Scorpion, he comes back as Venom.

[herodad1]

yeah throwing that many villians in would be over the top but i think the lizard should be a definite.connors has been in i think all 3.

[Ares_God_of_War]

Who would you like to see play all these guys? Besides the ones introduced I would die if they made one with Mysterio and it was Bruce Campbell

[captainspud]

The best part of having Bruce Campbell as Mysterio is that I can totally see Mysterio having all the crappy entry-level jobs Bruce has had over the course of the series. :D