The Dark Knight

[BentonGrey]

WHY DO PEOPLE KISS MILLER'S BUTT SO MUCH?!!?!? Drew upon Frank Miller? The writing of TAS was so much better than anything Frank Miller has ever done, and not just because it was a cartoon vs a comic book. Maybe he wrote Batman in a dark way for the first time in a while, but the character he wrote wasn't even a good Batman, he was Doucheman.

Amen.  Miller is important because he reminded people of the dark place Batman came from, but I'd say that Timm and co. actually envisioned a worthwhile Batman for the first time in ages.

[Figure Fan]

WHY DO PEOPLE KISS MILLER'S BUTT SO MUCH?!!?!? Drew upon Frank Miller? The writing of TAS was so much better than anything Frank Miller has ever done, and not just because it was a cartoon vs a comic book. Maybe he wrote Batman in a dark way for the first time in a while, but the character he wrote wasn't even a good Batman, he was Doucheman.

Amen.  Miller is important because he reminded people of the dark place Batman came from, but I'd say that Timm and co. actually envisioned a worthwhile Batman for the first time in ages.

I also agree with this.

That review that was quoted about this movie's characters not fitting into it's envisioned universe is laughable. Like BWPS said, this movie is about BATMAN. Thus, you have to accept that he's in the movie, otherwise..get out?

[steamteck]

WHY DO PEOPLE KISS MILLER'S BUTT SO MUCH?!!?!? Drew upon Frank Miller? The writing of TAS was so much better than anything Frank Miller has ever done, and not just because it was a cartoon vs a comic book. Maybe he wrote Batman in a dark way for the first time in a while, but the character he wrote wasn't even a good Batman, he was Doucheman.

Amen.  Miller is important because he reminded people of the dark place Batman came from, but I'd say that Timm and co. actually envisioned a worthwhile Batman for the first time in ages.

I'll  add another amen and a complete agreement with BentonGrey here.

[zuludelta]

Ah, that's stupid to me. It's a Batman movie, you have to suspend your disbelief enough to accept that a Batman movie is going to have Batman in it. Because they made it realistic and incorporated a lot of other more realistic characters, then Batman and Two-Face don't fit? Also, nothing in the Burton films has anything on this.

That review that was quoted about this movie's characters not fitting into it's envisioned universe is laughable. Like BWPS said, this movie is about BATMAN. Thus, you have to accept that he's in the movie, otherwise..get out?

I don't think the contention that the film was "too realistic" for its own good is all that far-fetched. Even artist David Mazzucchelli, who drew Batman: Year One (the story which formed most of the basis for Nolan's Batman Begins universe) and whose Batman work was a direct influence on the films' visual style, was wary of injecting too much realism into a superhero depiction. He questioned the aesthetic and storytelling value of grounding any superhero story in too much reality in the afterword he wrote for the TPB:

Did we go too far? Once a depiction veers toward realism, each new detail releases a torrent of questions that exposes the absurdity at the heart of the genre. The more "realistic" heroes become, the less believable they are. It's a delicate balance...

The balance Mazzucchelli refers to is one between "realism" and the inclusion of fantastical elements (such as costumed superheroes, "comic book physics", etc.). The author and artists inject realism to make it easier for readers/viewers to suspend their disbelief and invest in the story being told. Past a certain point though, a story and setting can become so grounded in reality that the inclusion of any fantastical element shatters the illusion of reality, thus disinvesting the viewer/reader of the suspension of disbelief and exposing the absurdity inherent in the fantasy of a vigilante fighting crime while wearing an animal themed-costume. I think the Nolan films, while definitely fun and engaging romps, had difficulty maintaining that balance.

Like BWPS though, I generally find the Nolan Batman films to be more entertaining than the Burton Batman films. Burton's take on Batman and the Gotham setting may have had a more coherent underlying thematic and visual structure, but they lacked the visceral oomph that I want from a superhero movie. And a lot of times when it comes to films, entertainment value trumps most any other concerns. 

[detourne_me]

Thank you ZD for reminding people that this batman is based on miller's year one and not dkr "the doucheman"
i saw TDK again tonight, in a crappy hot theater with a bunch of hillbillys hootin' and hollerin'
and the veneer of the film was chipping away.
the change in costume could have addressed the realism debate a bit better... but his new outfit still had molded eyebrows that were furrowed.
it really came through in the interrogation scene.  jokers makeup was completely smeared, and nearly gone, he had a fat lower lip from bats' first head pound (in addition to the upper lip puffiness throughout the film)
however batman looked like an alien,  his pupils gleamed under the heavy makeup and sculpted cowl.  the thin neck just accentuated the "alien-ness" of it all.

it got me thinking about the gotham knight cartoon, and i really liked the bat design when he had a collar, and the cowl looked more like a motorcycle helmet.
there was no furrowed brow on that, but the lines coming down from the eyes to the tip of the nose gave the mask enough character.
nearly everything else about his costume was quite believable... just that mask.  <_<

oh crud,  see that thing off in the distance... i think it was my point. gone now.

[bredon7777]

I'm sure this is fake, but it's cool nonetheless.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/d_julien/Acey.jpg

[Gremlin]

I'm sure this is fake, but it's cool nonetheless.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/d_julien/Acey.jpg

That is so obscenely awesome I can't even begin to describe it.

[style]

How about this one? :thumbup:
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o48/Mindreaper21/riddler.jpg

[docdelorean88]

If you think those are cool check out this dudes stuff


Posters: http://joshmc.wordpress.com/

His devian art for other comic book movie related images: http://joshwmc.deviantart.com/

[bredon7777]

How about this one? :thumbup:
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o48/Mindreaper21/riddler.jpg

Not bad, not bad at all. A little too flashy for Nolan, I think though.

[Ajax]

Those look real enough to fool the average person into thinking it's the real deal :P. According to wiki, Nolan doesn't want to use villains from the previous movie franchise (Joker being exempt because he is Joker and is a must in any Batman movie series), so I doubt we will see Riddler or Catwoman. I agree with Nolan, mostly because I want to see other villains used. So I say Talia should be in the next movie! Black Mask too.

[Figure Fan]

I have a feeling that if there is another film, that we will see villains we didn't expect..at all.

Just my opinion.

[bredon7777]

Those look real enough to fool the average person into thinking it's the real deal :P. According to wiki, Nolan doesn't want to use villains from the previous movie franchise (Joker being exempt because he is Joker and is a must in any Batman movie series), so I doubt we will see Riddler or Catwoman. I agree with Nolan, mostly because I want to see other villains used. So I say Talia should be in the next movie! Black Mask too.

Words cannot express how deeply I hope you are wrong.  I'm dying to see Nolan's take on the Riddler, and I think Warner Brothers will, while giving him choice of backups, at least force him to do the top 5 villians (Joker, Two-Face, Riddler, Penguin, and Catwoman)

[Podmark]

I think Black Mask could be a cool choice, assuming you could create a reasonable explanation for the skull or somekind of replacement. I liked how he was used in the Batman and comics a few years ago.

[Ajax]

Those look real enough to fool the average person into thinking it's the real deal :P. According to wiki, Nolan doesn't want to use villains from the previous movie franchise (Joker being exempt because he is Joker and is a must in any Batman movie series), so I doubt we will see Riddler or Catwoman. I agree with Nolan, mostly because I want to see other villains used. So I say Talia should be in the next movie! Black Mask too.

Words cannot express how deeply I hope you are wrong.  I'm dying to see Nolan's take on the Riddler, and I think Warner Brothers will, while giving him choice of backups, at least force him to do the top 5 villians (Joker, Two-Face, Riddler, Penguin, and Catwoman)

Cause forcing a director to use villains he didn't intend on using worked out so well for Spider-Man 3.  :rolleyes:

[stumpy]

I tend to agree with bredon7777's sentiment on this. It's not that I want to force the director in a direction he opposes; it's that I don't want the director casting aside villains just because they've been used before.

He should be up for the challenge of coming up with an interesting screen personality and plot role for the Riddler or Catwoman or many of the recognizable members of the Batman rogue's gallery. I think we've come up with some good ideas just in this thread and there are doubtless others.

There is the issue of realism in this franchise that will probably exclude some villains (though I don't think that should be 100% written in stone, either), but most of them could be made to work. Moreover, I have confidence that the team that made DK could present a much more interesting Riddler, et cetera than was shown in the last franchise.

[Previsionary]

Those look real enough to fool the average person into thinking it's the real deal :P. According to wiki, Nolan doesn't want to use villains from the previous movie franchise (Joker being exempt because he is Joker and is a must in any Batman movie series), so I doubt we will see Riddler or Catwoman. I agree with Nolan, mostly because I want to see other villains used. So I say Talia should be in the next movie! Black Mask too.

Words cannot express how deeply I hope you are wrong.  I'm dying to see Nolan's take on the Riddler, and I think Warner Brothers will, while giving him choice of backups, at least force him to do the top 5 villians (Joker, Two-Face, Riddler, Penguin, and Catwoman)

Cause forcing a director to use villains he didn't intend on using worked out so well for Spider-Man 3.  :rolleyes:

It totally did...he's [Venom] getting his own movie. It worked out great! *forced enthusiasm*

Now I return you to your previously interrupted Bat action. Same Bat time, same bat thread.

[Ajax]

I tend to agree with bredon7777's sentiment on this. It's not that I want to force the director in a direction he opposes; it's that I don't want the director casting aside villains just because they've been used before.

He should be up for the challenge of coming up with an interesting screen personality and plot role for the Riddler or Catwoman or many of the recognizable members of the Batman rogue's gallery. I think we've come up with some good ideas just in this thread and there are doubtless others.

There is the issue of realism in this franchise that will probably exclude some villains (though I don't think that should be 100% written in stone, either), but most of them could be made to work. Moreover, I have confidence that the team that made DK could present a much more interesting Riddler, et cetera than was shown in the last franchise.

I agree, but as much as I would enjoy seeing a well done riddler or catwoman, I would love to see other villains we haven't seen in the movies before. Talia would be a great addition and would help bring all three movies together. A character like Black Mask would fit perfectly with the idea of a "new type of criminal" that Joker spoke of. Harley Quinn can be considered the spiritual succesor of Joker (you don't even need to show Joker, just have a 'she was his psychologist in arkham and he destroyed her mind' type line). There are others i'm forgetting.

[UnkoMan]

I think Black Mask could be a cool choice, assuming you could create a reasonable explanation for the skull or somekind of replacement. I liked how he was used in the Batman and comics a few years ago.

It's just a mask.

Originally Black Mask had a human face carved from his mother's coffin. Then he was caught in a fire and the mask got burned onto his face, disfiguring him. And eventually it became a skull because that looks cooler. But, they already did the disfigured by burns thing with Two-Face now.

They could just have a guy with a black, emotionless face mask. It can look very very creepy.

[thalaw2]

Los Angeles (E! Online) – Aaron Eckhart has had a good summer. He can take credit for some of The Dark Knight's awesomeness, with his Harvey Dent/Two-Face baddie getting almost as freaky as Heath Ledger's Joker. But $500 million later, we have to ask him: Two-Face could survive that deadly fall at the construction site, right?

Full article

Has any bat-film villain ever made it to a sequel?  Marvel was able to use Magneto for 3 movies and still keep it reasonably interesting.

[Renegade]

I changed the Topic heading to avoid spoiling things for anyone.

[lgmss]

Scarecrow did even if it was a small part.

[Figure Fan]

In general, people never know when enough is enough. Harvey Dent, who became Two-Face, played a significant role in this film. He doesn't have to be dropped into the next one.

I don't get all of the riff-raff..

[Midnite]

DARK KNIGHT EXCLUSIVE: Michael Caine Says Johnny Depp Is The Riddler, Philip Seymour Hoffman Is The Penguin

Thoughts?

[MJB]

Far from being concrete but I'll bite. I think both are good choices for the characters and if DK is an example of what a 3rd movie can be like then sign me up.

-MJB

[BWPS]

I really don't like Johnny Depp.

[House Quake]

DARK KNIGHT EXCLUSIVE: Michael Caine Says Johnny Depp Is The Riddler, Philip Seymour Hoffman Is The Penguin

Thoughts?

If true... I'll give my girlfriend credit for making the Johnny Depp call.  We are both huge Johnny Depp fans and months ago we discussed who would be a good villain for #3 and who should they get.  I suggested Riddler and Catwoman.. she said Depp and Angelina Jolie.  I agreed with both as good choices. The penguin cast would seam to be a good one as well... though I actually had suggested Jack Black for the role if they went with Penguin.  I'm still holding out for Catwoman but I'm not sure if there are any 'legal' issues with doing her citing the Halle Berry crapfest.

But I must say... from a purely financial view point... bringing in an actor with the ability and appeal of Depp would certainly be the right formula to nearly equal or even surpass the success of The Dark Knight.

[docdelorean88]

I could possibly see depp as the riddler. it's a stretch, but, I mean i couldn't see heath as the joker and BAM "Why So Serious?"

As far as the other guy goes, i have only seen him in taladega nights.

[Podmark]

One thing I really want to see the next film do is pick the right actor for the job. I mean who thought Ledger would be a the best choice for the Joker? But he was prefect. So I hope they don't pick a big name that doesn't bring the level of performance that the Dark Knight actors brought.

That said Depp would probably be a great choice as the Riddler. And I don't even like Depp.

[thanoson]

See, I'm a big fan of Depp. He can pull off ecentric characters. Riddler is that and more. He will do fine if cast.