MCU Disney Plus Shows

Started by Tomato, March 20, 2021, 01:26:56 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Silver Shocker

#30
Indeed, as a corporation they've done stuff I'll remember like I'm a Telltale character (Clementine in the Walking Dead comics EEEEEEE!~) but they put out a LOT of good product, especially lately.

The world has a lot of ups and downs, but we do have some lovely distractions.

QuoteCome late Summer they gonna need something else to keep the momentum going!

For me personally, the wait for Hawkeye has been almost torturous. And it really arrives "Late 2021", eh, I'll have to focus on the ol' backlog.

Also next week we FINALLY get to see the original Mighty Ducks in the blatant rippoff of Cobra Kai new Mighty Ducks show. Please be good please be good....
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Silver Shocker

So talking about Loki this week:

Loki's alright, but I think the episodes are too long, Loki as a character already completed his character arc a long time ago, and much of the humor revolves around him either being incredibly stupid or slow on the uptake.

I've always enjoyed Owen Wilson though.

There's something I especially wanted to comment on with this show though. The foreign language subtitles, as with Wandavision, give away a reveal before it dropped in the actual show.

Spoiler
In ep 2 of Loki we meet female Loki as a separate character because time travel. Anyway, the foreign language subs gave away the character's true identity, just like they did with Monica Rambeau in Wandavision. It's Sylvie, the Young Masters version of Enchantress from Dark Reign: Young Avengers. Well, that's certainly different. You have mah curiosity. Though it might just be another instance of MCU doing a veto on Amora because Thor movies (hence Lorelei appearing in Shield).

A dossier seen in the episode listed her as Slyvie Laufeysdottir. So she's either Loki's sister or she's an alternate universe female version of Loki.

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Tomato

Ho boy. I haven't talked about it, but if anyone hasn't seen Loki, specifically the last two episodes... Go. Go now. Watch it. I'm serious.

Spoilers for the Finale. There be dragons here, you've been warned.

Spoiler
Im still reeling, but... Wow. What a way to introduce the character to become the MCU's new big bad, essentially kill him, introduce the multiverse, and still deliver on an emotional journey for the title character that feels earned. There's a lot to unpack here but MAN. So good.

Silver Shocker

#33
Yeah, I was not impressed. Don't go watch it now. Go watch what you want and what you actually enjoy. For me Loki was a joyless slog to get through. And that season finale reveal actively made me angry.

Spoiler
As I've said a few times before on this forum, Kang is probably my single favorite Marvel villain, and he was HORRIBLE in this. They went full Mandarin, full Jesse Eisenberg with him, making him an utterly out of character, hyperactive, jokey-jokey, hammy goofball who gets up on the desk while he's talking. I couldn't BELIEVE how badly they butchered him.

Between him and Taskmaster (and Thor, and Scourge, and Ghost, and...), The MCU voids the claim that they're faithful to the source material. They're not. And the idea that it's an alternate timeline Kang still doesn't excuse the disrespectful way he was used, because the Council of Kangs already existed in the comics and the cartoons, and they weren't done like that. They were treated with utmost respect. The Lego video game version of Kang was treated with more respect than the MCU version has so far, and that's just baffling.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Tomato

Spoiler
First of all, that wasn't Kang. It was likely intended to be Immortus... Small quibble, but given his stated age, his connection to the time keepers, and his antagonism towards himself, i felt that was pretty clear.

Beyond that... I feel you're being WAY over critical. First, Kang has never been consistent. He's been more wisecracking in certain stories, and his personality is all over the place depending on which kang we're dealing with, where on the timeline we are, and the mood of the writer. And frankly, even if he is the same when we meet him again, I'll take this character a hundred times over above the very rapey kang from the majority of his appearances.

Second, this is supposed to be a man who has been alone with his obsession for thousands of years. He's clearly been driven a bit crazy by his self exile and the war he was a part of.

Third, this isn't Kang. We haven't seen Kang. The whole point of the entire freaking series is about variants and the differences between them. All we saw of kang was Immortus' fear, and a statue.

Fourth, i think it is the slap in the face to make that claim when there's SO MUCH love given to the comics... Between Classic Loki, Throg, the Thanos copter... They packed so much comics love in there. I haven't seen BW, but i feel like you're letting that experience color the Loki series.

Frankly, no spoilers, i could not disagree more strongly. The mcu has never claimed to be a 1:1 adaptation. This is a good story, and the reveal was well handled, with some amazing cinematography and nice subtext (the fruit).

Silver Shocker

#35
I want to say I apologize. I phrased a lot of that last post incredibly poorly, hence the slap in the face.

Let me make amends for that.

The MCU is selectively Faithful. Some stuff is comics accurate, some stuff isn't but it usually has it where it counts.

QuoteDon't go watch it now. Go watch what you want and what you actually enjoy.

That was rude. Sorry.

Quotewith some amazing cinematography

It does indeed have that.

Spoiler
Spoiler

QuoteFirst of all, that wasn't Kang. It was likely intended to be Immortus...

That's a fair enough point actually, and for some reason, I don't really know why, I didn't think of it. And that's less of an issue for me because I've never especially liked Immortus.

They're in a sense the same guy, but the differences are there and are why the two characters are often squared against each other. The creators said in a interview that it's not necessarily Immortus. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

QuoteAnd frankly, even if he is the same when we meet him again, I'll take this character a hundred times over above the very rapey kang from the majority of his appearances.

I'll say this at least, the original Carol Danvers story is so universally disliked that even its own writers don't stand by it and I don't think I know anyone who defends it.

And it was directly criticized in better stories that played off it, including Kang Dynasty, which is one of my favorite Kang stories.

QuoteSecond, this is supposed to be a man who has been alone with his obsession for thousands of years. He's clearly been driven a bit crazy by his self exile and the war he was a part of.

That's a fair point, but the execution bothered me. It reminded me a bit of Jar Jar Binks. Not to say he's Jar Jar specifically, but I think if his mannerisms were toned down just the right amount, I'd probably be ok with it.

QuoteI haven't seen BW, but i feel like you're letting that experience color the Loki series.

Not in the slightest, I just phrased my earlier comment poorly, and you know what, that's on me, I got caught up in the moment. I had about two years to be fully prepared for Taskmaster to be a wholly separate thing, and indeed Tony Masters could appear proper in some future project, and Taskmaster being this separate character in BW is not inherently a negative IMO.

QuoteFourth, i think it is the slap in the face to make that claim when there's SO MUCH love given to the comics... Between [REDACTED, REDACTED AND REDACTED] They packed so much comics love in there.

Clearly it had the intended reaction from you, and, from what I hear, others.  92% on Rotten Tomatoes. And I have no doubt the creators poured their comics love into the series, and it doesn't resonate me with on any level. Oh well.

I could come here again and add more to the discussion. That'll be it for the moment.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Tomato

S'all good.

Spoiler

Quote from: Silver Shocker on July 23, 2021, 02:51:44 AM
That's a fair enough point actually, and for some reason, I don't really know why, I didn't think of it. And that's less of an issue for me because I've never especially liked Immortus.

They're in a sense the same guy, but the differences are there and are why the two characters are often squared against each other. The creators said in a interview that it's not necessarily Immortus. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

TBF, and I learned this after I posted... he is TECHNICALLY exactly what he's called, an obscure Marvel character called "he who remains" with some shades of Immortus thrown in there to make him more recognizable. I guess the idea was "what if this 'he who remains' guy was a Kang, the one who remained after the big Kang war?" It's interesting, and touching on some relevant but obscure lore. Good stuff.

QuoteI'll say this at least, the original Carol Danvers story is so universally disliked that even its own writers don't stand by it and I don't think I know anyone who defends it.

And it was directly criticized in better stories that played off it, including Kang Dynasty, which is one of my favorite Kang stories.

I think it's my turn to apologize, tbh. I had recently watched a youtuber express his own frustrations with comic Kang and the fact that he was being set up as the MCU's next big baddie, and that was on my mind when I was responding. The truth is, I don't actually dislike Kang at all personally... I dislike certain stories with Kang in them, and the prevalence of "I'm going to bed X against their will" in a lot of early stuff is right up there with slapping your wife to cure hysteria in terms of feeling like "I get that this is a product of its time but COME ON"... but Kang is such an ambiguous character anyway it's actually easier to write that all off as another version or that that part of him got pulled off when he was split into Immortus in Avengers Forever, etc.

His execution in EMH was pretty good though, and there are stories I do like. I should not have been as dismissive about the character, when my point was more that Kang is a character governed more by how he's used. Much like, y'know, time travel in general... it can be done really well, but it can also be very problematic.

QuoteNot in the slightest, I just phrased my earlier comment poorly, and you know what, that's on me, I got caught up in the moment. I had about two years to be fully prepared for Taskmaster to be a wholly separate thing, and indeed Tony Masters could appear proper in some future project, and Taskmaster being this separate character in BW is not inherently a negative IMO.

Not really responding to this per se, but just adding I've since seen BW, and... I kinda feel the same, tbh. As I told Benton, don't go into that film expecting Taskmaster, go in expecting an off brand version with similar powers. Served the purpose within the story, but the door IS open to explore a proper version of the character down the line. We'll see.


UnkoMan

Okay, I've read the posts and watched the show in one go, and I must say that Loki is a Disney+ show I finally liked!
Was it perfect? Not at all. Did it feel more like something with a full story and character arc, that both isn't JUST an ad for further features but that DOES set up massive changes for MCU? Yes.
This is up high on the Marvel list, despite some shakiness.

Spoiler

So, ever since Thor 1 I've been wanting to see Enchantress. I just always liked her. This version is pretty cool!
Okay, technically she's based on a Young Avengers character who used Amora's name and even that is so loose that she's really just an original character, but I liked her. If she shows up more, I wouldn't be mad.
And I didn't like her at first. She starts a bit grating and my god they have to stop saying the word enchant.... But by the end I rooted for her.

I also loved this particular Kang. I am a huge Kang fan but the thing I most love is that his character is different all the time. If they started doing a bunch of different Kang's in the MCU, that would be pretty cool.
This one was fun and worked for what he was and introduced the concept nicely.
If they did end up doing an FF soon... heck have them fight Rama-Tut. If they do end up going the Young Avengers route, which it seems like they are building to, I welcome an Iron Lad. Nathaniel Richards all day.
I think the actor they have chosen has enough range to do many different takes on the same character.

The biggest thing about all these projects is they are full of tiny obscure references (Thanos-copter) but they are ALWAYS doing their own thing.
And many times that means original characters who share the name only.
Like Taskmaster. I have a friend who is a huge TM fan and he was disappointed. Personally, I'm a really big fan of Ego the Living Planet (his origin is one of the few classic comics I actually own) and I hated what they did in GoG2.
People, especially fans of this nerdy stuff, complain when the changes suck. But they won't complain if the changes are cool or interesting.

Green Goblin costume? Sucks. X-Men in leather? Okay, cool.
And it continues like this, so it's all got to be taken with a grain of salt.

Anyhow, I thought Loki, taken as a whole, was a pretty fun little ride. Certainly moreso than Falcon/WS.
I'd probably even rewatch this some day. Thumbs up from me.

Silver Shocker

Hey, I actually never ended up reading the rest of this thread until now, but now that I have, interesting food for thought. I am glad I was able to come back after taking time to clam down and process things afterwards.

Spoiler
One thing that keeps me thinking back to this is the new Kang the Conqueror comic miniseries that's coming out right now. Issue #2 is out though, but I haven't read it, but I've read issue #1 and I really liked it. It tackled the Iron Lad/Nathaniel Richards/Kang dynamic and as such, played up that some of Kang's actions and methods are pretty slimy (in particular "courting Ravonna" gets a very quick visual reference. Good time to mention, I never really liked those Kang stories much either  :P)
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

UnkoMan

I just wanted to pop in to check if people were watching Hawkeye?
Personally... I'm loving it. Ha ha. Kate's great. I actually care about Hawkeye? Jeremy Renner might be a turd, but the show is not.
Spoiler
Plus, the return of Kingpin? Great. Wonderful. Even if it's just a cameo.

Tomato

I havent seen finale yet, but yes, its a lot of fun. It does seem to be trying to reign him back into comic hawkeye, but... i dunno he just isnt there. That said, kate is great, like her a lot.

SickAlice

I wept in the last Hawkeye episode, I'll be up front about it. Very performance driven and better for it. I wasn't interested in seeking this out, I'm not a subscriber to that app so I have to buy the episodes when I want to see them but I was intrigued by a certain character in the credits and actress playing them* so I took the dive. It serves as a good closure point to the previous MCU vehicles, central Avengers, SHIELD and Netflix based imo and props any new chapters going forward would be my honest take. If anyone enjoys performance driven classic theater stuff, I grew up on that myself then this will series will be enjoyable to them. It isn't otherwise much a popcorn/thrill ride type of thing like more superhero movies are then a down to Earth personal type story. I also credit it for playing the espionage and syndicate angle better than the Black Widow film**, which rightly should have, had done itself.

Spoiler
* Alaqua Cox, a born deaf Native American playing the deaf Native American character Maya Lopez aka Echo.
** continuation of that films storyline. Imo Florence is a better Widow and more believable Soviet era spy than Scarlett who is more a direct action hero template

UnkoMan

I ended up rewatching and finishing this with my mom over the holidays. She was very entertained.

Alice, I definitely agree. This was more personal, and felt more like Daredevil/Jessica Jones in tone, with just enough MCU to not make it a total downer. I would say it's a midpoint between MCU films and Netflix series, in terms of emotion vs action.

The certain character you refer to in your first point is great. I honestly would have even enjoyed seeing their story expanded a bit more.
That being said, this show kept the pace pretty tight, unlike the Netflix series which always had a few filler episodes around the middle. This, being half the length, was go go go. There were certain characters and things they could have gone into a bit more, and filled out a couple more episodes. I would not have minded. Still, they did manage to hit all the points they needed to, and nothing was confusing.
And, yeah, this brought good closure to Avengers, SHIELD, and the previous crop of MCU. It seemed like they wanted to make up for the Black Widow film, which wasn't terrible, but wasn't great, and came way too late.
Hawkeye was a good period on all of that.

This Clint has definitely never been 616 Clint. Wasn't he more Ultimates influenced at first? I know the first handful of MCU projects had that rippling through.
BUT, he has gone from a minor background character / sorta annoying to somebody who holds a lot of weight. It was also good to see just what the heck he was doing as Ronin, if only for a bit.

Oh, and about your second point, Alice, yeah I think that character is also great. Was very fun in this and the actor is good at switching between serious/comedic/action.

MCU has some cool newer additions, and I'm interested to see where they go from here. I'm really curious as to what a new Avengers line-up might look like.

Tomato

Reading unkos post, said person has their own show coming. Their appearance in Hawkeye is setup for that. The thing that they did at the end is straight from the comics also.

UnkoMan

Oooo... really? That's dope! I didn't know that, thank you!

SickAlice

Yes. The news of that series was what made me consider watching Hawkeye in the first place. Hence the intrigued by character, the fact they were chosen for a live action venture and the casting.

SickAlice

Is that a werewolf Moon Knight is beating up in the trailer are is my mind playing tricks on me?

UnkoMan

I have not seen the trailer but... are they officially introducing Werewolf by Night to the MCU cannon?!? Awesome!
(For those not in the know, this is the comic in which Moon Knight originally appears, as a silver wielding merc hired to capture the werewolf... whose name is Jack Russell, by the way.)
I'm sure it will be a throw away but I think that's pretty dope.

SickAlice

#48
Well the press release says Werewolf By Night as well Vampire By Night will be in the Marvel Halloween special and looked like a werewolf in the Moon Knight. I mean if they are confirming he is showing up in something later and given Moon Knight appeared in Jack's book, yeah, two and two.

https://deadline.com/2022/01/marvel-werewolf-halloween-special-gael-garcia-bernal-laura-donnelly-nevers-disney-plus-1234908055/

Panther_Gunn

So, I just finished the Ms. Marvel series.  Not because I was that interested in the character, but more to get through it to prep for any connections or appearances later on (like the Marvels movie?).  From what I know about her, they had to change her MCU origin for obvious reasons, so I was able to roll with that (pretty easy when I have no history with the character).  I do have one question though, more about the MU in general, not about her.

Spoiler
When did Damage Control become some kind of police-type Federal Agency?  I remember when the title originally came out, they were more of just a clean-up team.  I think I only got the first year's worth or so of the title (or was it a mini-series?) before I got out of comics regularly, so who know what could have happened after that.
The Best There Is At What I Do......when I have the time.

Tomato

Spoiler
So dc started as that in the first sm movie, but by no way home they were the ones arresting Peter for the mysterio cleanup. They seem to be more or less the organization dealing with superhero bs in general, something tony set up with the us.

SickAlice

Haven't seen Ms. Marvel yet. Actually not much of anything (I did get to watch Prey finally at least), my time has been really consumed. I did get to see the first episode of She-Hulk. I don't know how to sell this one. I'm a long time fan of the various She-Hulk series and it captures the essence of the series that occurred after the 2004 runs. I liked that stuff so I liked the show myself. Just very colorful, fun, upbeat stuff. Also it's a Banner/Hulk at the same time, at least the first episode though a cross-over guest was a pretty typical thing in the comics as well. I don't want to give much else away, I caught a lot more easter eggs/nods than most of the online publications did especially when it comes to the clothes she wears. Anyways I think it's going to be one of those you either like or loathe it propositions. It's not an edgy show, at least in the first. Know that much. More I would define it as "spunky".

UnkoMan

She Hulk was pretty zzzzzz for most of it. I enjoyed the last couple episodes okay. The BIG CAMEO ALERT episode was probably the best.
Overall not great. Disney seems to be in a real throw everything and see what sticks mode right now.
It would be nice if they gave their animators more time and resources instead of rushing.

Dunno if anybody caught Moon Knight, but the CG was so glaring... Especially the cupcake truck chase scene with CG logs.