MCU Disney Plus Shows

[Tomato]

Figured I'd make a separate thread for the shows, since the Marvel Movies thread is sort of long and these aren't really movies.

Before I get into spoiler territory for the latest fare (such as it is with just one episode) I'll just say that so far, Falcon and Winter Soldier is pretty by the numbers and bare bones story. It's all competently told and looks fine, but it's a SUPER by the numbers story (especially compared to Wandavision), and I really don't expect that to change. Admittedly, I'm fine with it as a palette cleanser, but I wouldn't go into this one expecting anything new or groundbreaking. It's... fine.

Spoiler

Before I get started on what's probably going to come off as a pretty dismissive summary, I want to say up front that the opening with Batroc the Leaper was cool, if only just to see him in action again. He was one of the cooler additions to Winter Soldier, just making this kinda goofy villain character cool and menacing but still retaining the core parts of his character was something I appreciated, and they made good use of him.

As for the rest... look, I grew up on shows like Monk and Columbo, so I tend to spot tropes and patterns pretty easily... but F+WS is cookie cutter transparent with it's story. John Walker is there to force Sam to take up the shield by the end, likely because he goes too far trying to stop the Flag Smashers (who I'd guess are tied to Zemo in some way). Winter Soldier's arc is to be able to atone for all the harm he's done, and to work with other people again, so he's given a cliche "killed this dude's son" subplot to drive home how bad he was during his brainwashing, without relying on the Stark killings.

Now, I'm still excited to see the show. As someone who takes more of an interest in the visual side, I've been waiting to see Zemo get his proper outfit, and both of the titular characters have MUCH better outfits in this show than in previous outings. I'm also just fine with a lighter "turn your brain off and watch cool action scenes" sort of story this time around. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed to see such cookie cutter story bits and tropes. I don't want any "shock" twists or anything, but I could have done without yet another heavy handed version of the reparations list and the "I killed this man's son" guilt trip that I've seen done multiple times before.   

[Silver Shocker]

I liked it, and yeah, it's very straightforward and easy to predict just based on first episode, but I still get quite a bit out of seeing supporting characters get their own show. I find it neat to learn more about these characters than we ever have before.

The action in this episode is very entertaining, and I really like Falcon's outfit in this.

Spoiler

Torres was the new Falcon in the comics. That's cool. Also the Female Flag Smasher was Enfys Nest in Solo, which amuses me.

It's still fun for me to learn about how the world has changed in the wake of the Blip, with it being the in universe explanation for recognizable topical events.

I was also happy at the Don Cheadle cameo.

[Tomato]

So I'm just posting to let everybody know to avoid toy news sites for a bit. Images have come out of the Marvel Legends line and... There be some spoilers. One was fairly obvious, but the other has some potential implications.

[Silver Shocker]

Roger Roger. Almost forgot this was coming out. Admittedly, I don't tend to look at non-TF toys very often. But good to know.

[Tomato]

For anyone wondering, spoilers I mentioned? Probably at least 1-2 episodes out, if not something from the finale. So don't run off after seeing today's episode thinking you're safe looking now.

Real quick non spoiler: much better. Episode 1 was kind of middling, but there's more meat to dig into with episode 2. I'll post later with spoilery thoughts, but I geeked out seeing some stuff.

[Silver Shocker]

I like the episode title being "The Star Spangled Man" and it using the music from "The First Avenger".

However, this episode might as well have been called "Stubborn Jacka$$es" because that's what Sam and Bucky were for almost the full runtime of this episode.

Spoiler

I thought Isiah Bradley was really good. And it's always enjoyable to see Daniel Bruhl aka Zemo.

[Tomato]

Yeah.

Spoiler

I get that they both have their own baggage, but they're both quite cold to John. Not that he doesn't show his own arse too, but still

Isiah Bradley was a cool surprise. I was a little sad they watered down his origin a bit, but I get the reasons they didn't go that way with it. It was still super cool to see him and Elijah in the episode, and the change does tie him into things more. I've been geeking out about it for a bit, I'm a big fan of Truth and of YA, Patriot in particular.

Little bits of other trivia, Power Broker is the one responsible for John Walkers powers in the comics, and the girl in charge of the Flag Smashers is a gender swapped version of the actual Flag Smasher.

[Silver Shocker]

Spoiler

Strangely I didn't even realize that that was Eli. I would guess that the fact that he has appeared sparingly in the comics over the years had a lot to do with it. I'll always remember how great the reveals in the original YA comic were, and the reveal of who Patriot was and who he was related to (and how he gets his powers) was a highlight.

I've always liked the concept of the Power Broker, and I look forward to seeing how that'll play into the story and the MCU. A superpower arms race is always a concept with some legs, and it's a great concept to use here, where people have been trying to forever to replicate Cap's abilities. I joked back when Endgame came out that everyone seemed to stop getting powers during the Blip, but this is a great way to establish people getting powers off screen.

[Shogunn2517]

Okay just putting this out there:

Spoiler

"Truth: Red, White and Black" is probably my all time favorite story period. Book, comicbook, fiction, non-fiction.

I cannot tell you how over the moon I am to see it included.  I would have NEVER dreamed of seeing even a hint of this.

[Silver Shocker]

Spoiler

Wow, it resonated with you that much, eh?

Haven't read it. Maybe I should take a peek at it. You have mah curiosity.

[Tomato]

Episode 3:

Spoiler

Not sure what to even say about this week's episode. Lot's of good stuff, like making Zemo a Baron again and giving him some interesting character stuff. I'm kinda worried that given what they heard Zemo is going to go after Isaiah (he heard about how the new serum was made and was present when Sam mentioned him). Could be their setup for Eli getting his powers (taking the bullet for his grandfather), which does mean we'd skip out on his arc with the MGH/equivalent... but while it's good character stuff, I'd be just as happy to skip the "black kid does drugs" allegory.

I think the use of the snap with the scientist dude might be clever, if they do what I think they are with it. I wanna go over that scene again, but we know John already has powers (they hinted at it pretty strongly in the interview scene in episode 2) and given the time frame I don't think he got them from the broker. So either he got them during the Hydra experiments... or the American whose blood samples they used wasn't Isaiah, but John himself.

Madripoor was neat. The payoff at the end with the Wakanda stuff was cool.

Also, is it just me, or did Sharon feel... off? Like, for all her talk about being over patriotism and such, I feel like the entire thing (getting in with that museum, the drive away at the end) was an undercover op for SHIELD. And not in a "this is a clever setup for showing how good a spy she is" but in a "this is stupidly obvious" kinda way.

Also, just because holding it in is killing me... some speculation that's based on what I mentioned above, not the episodes. If you don't want spoilers from outside the show itself, DO NOT READ THIS. I'm serious.

Spoiler

So on the action figure end, there have been several leaks of Sam Wilson Captain America. It's the Sorta-BaF of the Disney+ wave, we've seen the Diamond Select, etc. I don't think anyone would be shocked by that, we all kinda know that's where the show is going.

The surprise is that the *main release* John Walker figure is as US Agent, black costume and all. The Captain America costume is being done only as an exclusive. Between that and the fact that we've seen shots in the trailers of Sam training with the shield... I don't think this is a case, as in WandaVision, where Sam is only going to don the costume for the final episode. Whatever happens that causes him to take back the shield, it'll happen early enough that not only will Sam become Captain America, but John will take up the mantle of US Agent.

[Silver Shocker]

I'd have to say this was my favorite episode so far. It had some fun scenarios and character interaction that really elevated it.

Show's still very predictable.

Spoiler

As I like to say "If it's in the recap, it's in the show."

Lot's of good stuff, like making Zemo a Baron again and giving him some interesting character stuff.

I quite liked how Zemo is handled in this. His mask just chilling in the back seat is kinda random, like "Oh yeah, I used to run around wearing this while hunting Hydra. Might as well take it with me" But sure, why not.

Could be their setup for Eli getting his powers (taking the bullet for his grandfather), which does mean we'd skip out on his arc with the MGH/equivalent... but while it's good character stuff, I'd be just as happy to skip the "black kid does drugs" allegory.

If they can take a broad strokes approach with Zemo, and Isiah, and any number of other characters superhero adaptations, they can do that with Eli. Just getting a blood transfusion would work.

Oh, totally forgot...why did Falcon have his phone with him, least of all turned on? Come on, man. You're gonna tell me Zemo didn't make sure he didn't bring his phone? That is bush league right there.

[Tomato]

So real quick, not really spoilers... if it ever seems like some stuff feels out of place, especially in the Flag Smasher subplot: apparently there was a whole subplot involving a virus going through the relocation camps (thus why vaccines are pretty heavily showcased) but it all got edited out because the producers felt it was a bit too... real right now.

Also, Loki trailer.

[Silver Shocker]

How interesting. I haven't noticed any parts that seem stitched together, but now that I've heard that, I wonder if I'll notice anything like that going forward.

Loki tv show does look pretty cool.

[Tomato]

*explosive exhale*

Spoiler

So. Number of things I predicted ahead of time, but also disproves a few theories I had. Good episode but... that ending though.

Don't get me wrong, I was pretty sure from episode 1 that it was going to happen that way. In the comics John's "point of no return" as Cap happened because he went nuts and killed a bunch of terrorists, so I fully expected that to be the ultimate fate of at least one of the Flag Smashers. But that kill was brutal, with an intentional callback to the Steve/Tony fight in Civil War. And the way the music for the ending credits is nearly completely silent? Oof.

That said, I'll admit I was fully wrong on John Walker. With the way episode 2 opened, I fully expected him to have been a super soldier already, but this episode thoroughly dispels that notion.

[Silver Shocker]

Alright, I watched the thing, and I have thoughts.

Spoiler

Actually, before I start, Daniel Bruhl has revealed that there is WAY more footage of Zemo dancing at the nightclub. Internet, do not fail me and acquire that footage. This I command.

[EDIT]: I have been informed that #ReleaseTheZemoCut was a thing, the footage has already been released, and it is an hour long. I approve. [EDIT] apparently the longer footage was about 20 seconds long, and the 1 hour video was a loop of that. Oh well.

First, some fun little jokes.

Anyway, this week on Sam and Bucky are friggin' useless, Zemo eats candy. Riveting stuff guys. Well, at least it's better than Lex and his Jolly Ranchers.

Kids, do NOT accept candy from that man. Stranger danger.  I didn't know Slender Man was going to be a villain in this show.

Also considering Echo's got a spinoff announced before Hawkeye's even out and DC's doing a Painkiller spinoff AND a Peacemaker spinoff, Marvel better be giving Zemo a spinoff show right the eff now because he is stealing this show, but that's not hard considering Sam and Bucky aren't accomplishing much in this.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I really, really did not enjoy this episode.

Sam, stop defending actual terrorists and get in the damn robot. You're lucky Bright Noa isn't in this show.

You know, it's a real shame, Erin Kellyman has a really unique and compelling screen presence, but any sympathy I might have for her character died with the line "[violence] is the only language they'll understand." and it only got more tedious from there. No amount of "woe is me, we live in a society" is going to make her any less purple in my eyes.

Like, I'm sorry, you know me, I stan for the MCU like it's my job, but I could barely get through this.

And of course, they had to kill Battlestar, the ONLY likable character other than Zemo who's in this episode for more than 2 minutes? I literally flipped off the screen within a second of Battlestar getting it.

[Tomato]

Spoiler

See, that didn't bother me, because on some level I kind of saw it coming.

The reason John Walker ceased being Captain America in the comics was because a terrorist organization killed his parents, which drove him into a rage. He ended up killing the terrorists on camera, and the government stepped in and was like "yeaaaaah... maybe we should give that identity back to Steve Rogers"

And what was set up in this series? John Walker taking up the Cap mantle and Sam needing a good reason to take it from him. We also have a terrorist organization with sympathetic motives that would make it all the worse when John snapped and killed them. And no parents in sight, meaning that the death that set him off had to be someone else... and after his conversation with John about the serum, Battlestar was the only character that could elicit that rage. Heck, it couldn't be anyone else, because Battlestar was consistently the one pulling John back from the brink.

Additional bit that's less spoilery now, but it's still non-show stuff so.

Spoiler

So there was a Hasbro panel today, and one of the things they said was that they're going to be showing off one Disney + character every week from now until the show ends. They showed Zemo this Monday, I suspect next Monday will be Bucky... And given what we saw here, I think the next one is almost certainly the leaked US Agent figure, black costume and all.

[Silver Shocker]

Spoiler

Here's a big part of why I feel the way I do on the matter.

1. Civil War. This thing is channeling CW a lot, complete with the CW music playing when the Dora Milaje fight happens, but the difference (other than, you know, Civil War being a LOT better) is that Rhodey doesn't die in that. The "I can't feel my legs" scene is heartbreaking, and a scene I think back to a lot, along with Rhodey's line "Yeah, this sucks, this a bad beat." I rewatched a good chunk of CA:CW on D+ when Wandavision and this were coming out (the Wanda/Vision stuff and Zemo stuff) and that is SUCH a good movie. But Rhodey appears in later stuff, and for me he's a highlight in each thing he appears in. Him telling Ross he helped his cause and it cost him is one of my favorite moments from Infinity War, and him bonding with Nebula over their artificial body parts is a highlight in Endgame, and he even shows up in this show, AND is getting a D+ series.

CA: Civil War is a massive improvement over the comic book version, and this thing, as of this episode, reminds me a LOT of the comic. Almost every character carrying the conflict ball AND the idiot ball and running the full football field with it, the only character who's any fun is the hammy villain, it's relentlessly dark, it failed to make you feel sympathy when it's supposed to because actions speak louder than words, and the one really likeable, relatable black guy they bring in out of obscurity gets absolutely bodied in it to raise the stakes.

2. John Walker has been Captain Heel for at least two straight episodes, and I know people who don't read the comics who had him pegged as a jerk in the first two. He doesn't need Lemar getting killed, or even wounded, to spring him into agro action because he's already been like that for a while now. Dude's pulling no knock warrants and SWAT raids and going full Jack Bauer on folks and ranting like a jerk the second he shows up on screen in this.

3.

We also have a terrorist organization with sympathetic motives that would make it all the worse when John snapped and killed them.

"There's a difference between having a sympathetic backstory and actually being sympathetic."
— Linkara, History of Power Rangers

I was genuinely angry that Karli made it out of that episode alive. Actions, again, speak louder than words, and she is a disgusting villain.

This show spends so much screentime fleshing out the motivations of terrorists that it comes dangerously close to endorsing them. It's padding out the better part of almost 48 minutes trying to make me sympathize with a real-world style terrorist. I can roll with Sam getting pulled over and being denied a bank loan. I can roll with Sam bringing his home phone to Madripoor. I can roll with Zemo and Sam making pimp jokes. I can roll with Zemo talking to kids like he's trying to get the kids in the Lesson Van, and doing a loose adaptation for the Truth complete with an Eli cameo was awesome, but this is friggin' gross.

[Shogunn2517]

So.....

Spoiler

If Falcon gets the shield back and Walker does indeed become the USAgent... does he get a shield too?

Just wondering.

Overall though. I liked this episode. And honestly, I'm trying not to look at it as a series but a six hour movie. Yeah there's some rather dull parts and down time but I'm finding a lot of these times are given meaning.

Spoiler

For example, the first episode about Sam and his sister wasn't just about giving Sam a family for some reason but we see it come up again and it made sense to me. Also like Zemo's candy fixation and all the scenes with Lemar and Walker. It made him going over the edge that more... reasonable? 

Another couple of things I noticed was the political themes that they've said they would feature in the series. I assumed and expected those themes would surround the idea of letting/not letting a black man be "America's mascot" and in a way it is. But a more underline theme they've been circling and all but stated was the Israel/Palestinian conflict with the Flag Smashers vs the GRC. With Karli practically owning the balance between being a terrorist or revolutionary.  And the GRC being an entity literally trying to replace "displaced persons" in place where they weren't. Clearly people returning post-blip are the Jews in this analogy and the Flag Smashers are PLO/Hamas or whoever you can plug in. Again, it kinda snuck up on me. I didn't see it but it was rather in your face this episode.


Another thing that stuck out to me ALOT more was Erskine's words to Steve in The First Avenger. He told him the serum brings out whats already inside of you. That's why the Red Skull became what he did and Steve was inherently good and just more virtuous. So giving it to people like Karli or even Walker would bring out what's already inside of them, rage and evil. Also why Bucky, free of the Winter Soldier programming isn't rageful like them. Again, I don't know why I didn't notice this at first. Just started sounding familiar as I watched the episode.

[Silver Shocker]

Spoiler

Another thing that stuck out to me ALOT more was Erskine's words to Steve in The First Avenger. He told him the serum brings out whats already inside of you. That's why the Red Skull became what he did and Steve was inherently good and just more virtuous. So giving it to people like Karli or even Walker would bring out what's already inside of them, rage and evil. Also why Bucky, free of the Winter Soldier programming isn't rageful like them. Again, I don't know why I didn't notice this at first. Just started sounding familiar as I watched the episode.

Indeed. We don't talk about The First Avenger much these days, but it did have some really nice moments that cemented the MCU's "These guys get it" reputation:

Erskine: So you want to kill some Nazis?

Steve: I don't wanna kill anyone. I just don't like bullies.

Erskine: [why he chose Steve for the serum] Because a weak man knows the value of strength.

Where I differ is the MCU (less so the Netflix shows, granted, but none of them bothered me in any way like this does) is the MCU is really rather tasteful.

Zemo talking about his family buried under rubble is a brief moment, and we never see it. Tony Stark deflects with jokes constantly, but they're funny jokes. Ant-Man's a bumbling goof, but he loves his daughter. Pretty much everything about GotG. Black Panther has some really fun moments like Shuri trolling T'challa (DELETE THAT FOOTAGE!). Infinity War is very dark, but ONLY when Thanos is on the screen or talked about. A lot of the rest of it is a laugh riot. Wandavision has some REALLY dark material (in particular actually showing the bomb dropping in Wanda and Pietro's home) but balances it out with its playful and charming moments. And it has some nice hero moments too. Monica's mom died and she was a gosh darn hero. Vision defeating the evil duplicate Vision with a philosophy debate is just the best thing ever. I love it so.

This thing is so, so very incendiary, and even with Zemo classing up the proceedings, I don't find it very fun.

[Tomato]

Liked this episode a lot, but I have a minor quibble.

Spoiler

Did anyone else feel like the training montage was out of order? Like, we get this scene where sam and bucky are talking, Sam's acting like Cap, and they're throwing and catching the shield casually. Then a bit later we get a montage of Sam getting into shape, learning to throw the shield, and generally getting himself ready to become Captain America.

I know, doing it in reverse would be the question "what's bucky doing during all this", but it just felt out of order for some reason.

Liked the rest of it. Isiah going more into his backstory and paralleling/subverting Steve with the story of Isiah and his wife (her thinking he was dead all this time) was a nice touch. I'm so glad they made him a real part of this story and not a "lol, quicksilver" thing like WV.

One more to go. This is the big one.

[Silver Shocker]

Very good breather/setup/transitional episode.

Also, for those who missed it, there's a mid-credit scene

Spoiler

John Walker making his own shield.

[Shogunn2517]

I gotta be honest, I'd say this was probably my least favorite episode. It had it's moments, but I felt about this episode about how it seems like you felt about the others SS.

Spoiler

Obviously I liked the fight at the beginning. I liked the nod to the new Falcon. I liked the scenes with Isaiah and Sam, though I think it could have been more.  But largely, I think I honestly couldn't care THAT much about much else. I mean the bulk of the episode focused on Sam being at home working on his parent's boat. Eh. I could take or leave it. The training scene was nice(and yes, it did seem a little out of order), but I sensed it coming and even felt even that was a scene I could lose and not care about. Actually most of the episode felt that way. John with Lemar's parents. Sharon's call to Batroc(intriguing but I'm like umm... okay). the scene with Bucky and Zemo. And the "cameo", which has been teased  as this "super big cameo" from a "very important character" just fell flat. I mean I like JLD and thought she did a good job with the scene, but for the build up and the "rumor", I expected like an Avenger-level character. Old Steve, a changed back Bruce, the new Black Widow, Red Skull, Nick Fury, or someone. Even someone new like a mutant or one of the Fantastic Four. But Madam Hydra? And I felt like that as if felt with practically every other scene in the episode "Umm.... okay."

So I was underwhelmed. I guess slightly disappointed based on my expectations alone, but wasn't aggravated it.  It just seemed more like filler. Like it was 50 minutes of just set up to the last episode. And other stuff. I mean, I'll take it, but it was definitely a departure from the other episodes IMO.

[Silver Shocker]

Spoiler

Forgot about that cameo. Hadn't even heard any hype for it in advance myself. For me it just kinda came out of nowhere.

[Tomato]

Spoiler

My understanding is that she was supposed to be a thing in BW, so it's as much a tie in to that. Also, she's the current Madame Hydra, but she's been off and on SHIELD before that and she might be doing her own thing here.

[Tomato]

Good finale, but it had a few issues.

Spoiler

First, lets get it out of the way... by far the weakest element of the whole show was Karli. That cut pandemic subplot probably has a lot to do with it, expanding her motivations and explaining her desperation in a way the show (as it currently stands) just didn't. In the end, she's killed off and we're clearly supposed to care... but yeah, SS is right, I really don't. It also weakens the final Cap speech, because I suspect the original moral question was about hoarding vaccines for the virus, but the senator is right: What happens to those people whose houses are being lived in by other people? Not rushing into a rash relocation project is fair, but there's no real alternative given.

I'll admit to being fairly lukewarm to Carter's turn as the Power Broker. On the one hand, it's set up perfectly fine, the necessary story beats building to it are present... but it also feels wrong for me too. This is Peggy Carter's niece, a long running Cap love interest and supporting character in the comics, being turned into a kinda blah arms dealer. It feels like a misstep, but we'll see where they go with it (if they do at all).

The rest was solid. Walker's ultimate "redemption" was decent, though on some level I wish it was more ambiguous. The character has always walked that moral line in the comics where he can be hero or villain depending on context, and the save people moment felt very much like a "See, he's good now! Serum's not making him crazy anymore!" and like... no. I like Walker well enough, but he was a bully and an entitled prick before the serum. I also kinda wish they'd stop pushing the Contessa so hard... I get it, she's your tie to the Black Widow movie, but she felt out of place. I'd almost have preferred it if that scene was the post-credit teaser instead.

Zemo getting the last laugh was great. Tied up the loose end of the remaining super soldiers, and reinforced him as a villain with a decent amount of cunning and reach.

Sam went all in on the Captain America ham, and I loved it. I'm not 100% sold on the costume (it's mostly the jawline that bugs me. It'd probably work on someone like Evans with his stronger jawline, but Mackie has a thinner jaw. It's the same problem they run into with Grant Gustin's Flash, where they want to have that open jawline to match the comics... but the chin strap just looks better.) but he wore the mantle well, and they can make tweeks for later MCU projects. The ending bit with "Captain America and the Winter Soldier" was a nice touch.

Kinda hope Batrok isn't dead. Yeah, I know we saw him shot, but as the saying goes, if you don't see the body buried...

[Shogunn2517]

Honestly, I thought it was largely predictable and rather generic in spots. Yet, I really really want to see more oddly enough.

Spoiler

First of all the stuff I liked. I liked the build up. I really like all the loose ends they left. You right T, I appreciated them bringing Zemo back like that to finish off what he wanted. Shows how big of a villain he could be if they wanted to go that route. LOVED the USAgent getting his costume. It seemed rather clunky and just so happenstance but at least he got it and also has someone he's working for. Who, though, that's the question. Same as with Sharon. Loved the nod with going back to her "old organization" to SHIELD. But who are these people she's working with? Who could they be? I liked how Isaiah's story ended. Giving him the recognition he was robbed of. I do kinda wish Sam made a comment about taking his grandson and "working out" with him(hint hint). And yeah, I also hope Batroc is still alive. Yeah we saw him far but they purposely didn't show and "actual" death for a reason I gotta believe. I really think GSP likes the role and I dsmn sure love seeing him in it.

Now, the part that I really really liked is with the new Captain America. Falcon America. I liked the costume a lot. Seemed pretty accurate to me. Moreover, the stuff he was doing with the shield, that's the kind of thing I think is much harder to show on a comic panel and seeing it live action was a site! Almost everything he did with it was awesome.

However, the parts I don't like. Like I said it seemed pretty predictable in plot and script. I think it was called that Sharon Carter was the Power Broker back like half way though her first episode with many online. Yeah, Karli's story was unfortunately not as developed as I wanted. I was hoping like something Killmonger like. A villain not just with a justifiable motivation but one you can cheer for and you WANT to see succeed. I mean, I get her angle, trying to blur the line between terrorist and revolutionary, but she almost seemed too cartoony bad. Not like badly written but mustache twirling bad. It just didn't jive with her cause.  And I guess that has to do with the whole politics of it.

Again, I said it earlier but it was very clear to me the underlined parallel was the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. More that than Pandemic(I think they started filming before the pandemic) but if there was any doubt that was cleared with with his speech at the end. And that speech I had A-LOT of problems with. I'm sorry, I've worked in politics for years and I get the dynamics and the personalities. But first of all, I just didn't get a authentic feel from Sam, comparing to Steve and when he made speeches. When he said his speeches I believed it! Sitting in my couch. Hell I listened to his Endgame speech the morning of Election Day. But here, Sam's didn't hit like that. It seems like they just wanted to show him in the costume doing "Captain America" things and either he went too far or tried way too hard. I saw them trying to set up the dynamic of displaced persons returning vs removing those who settled there, again their language VERY striking to the Israeli-Palestinian debate. But they had Sam taking a VERY political position and they made him seem like he's above the fray and can see things with clear eyes and the reality is that's just a cop out. Realistically those politicians would have likely heard his position thousands of times from millions of others and would counter it. But instead they seemed sheepishly just "oh gosh Captain America" you're absolutely right. Let's do the right thing because before you said anything I had no idea what that was even though I just suspended your predecessor because he's a murdering jerk."

Actually speaking about that. That bothered me too. I don't know what they were trying to do with Walker. It seemed as if they were trying to set up him having some cognitive disconnect or that he was crazy. But at the end he not only did the right thing and saved civilians but also let the police stop the FSers. I think his angle would have worked best if they made his angle solely based on grief, rage and remorse over Lemar's death. But he kept shaking his head like he was trying to clear cobwebs and hammering away fanatically making a shield. I'm wondering if he was crazy then they should have went fully that route. Even though it was out of the character they made from the beginning.

Sorry I don't want to seem all over the place but a lot ofbit fell flat to me. It started well but the end just went as expected which I dunno I was hoping for more of a game changer.

[Silver Shocker]

I enjoyed....parts of the finale. But it's a little like Wandavision in that regard. It technically lands, but loses something in the little details.

It is, indeed, a very predictable story, but there is some satisfaction in seeing the dominos fall effectively, but some of the moment-to-moment mechanics are...iffy.

Spoiler

I liked how Isaiah's story ended. Giving him the recognition he was robbed of.

Yeah, Isaiah's story was done really rather well. Having Sam have a kinda idealistic struggle with him, complete his character arc, and impress Isiah by pulling it off. It's a very feel good moment. There's a lot of that here, even if some of it is wedged in in a odd way.

Now, the part that I really really liked is with the new Captain America. Falcon America. I liked the costume a lot. Seemed pretty accurate to me. Moreover, the stuff he was doing with the shield, that's the kind of thing I think is much harder to show on a comic panel and seeing it live action was a site! Almost everything he did with it was awesome.

Me too. I second Falcon showed up in the costume I was feeling the fanservice vibes. That whole action sequence had so much crowd pleasing and cool stunt work you'd think Boba Fett would be showing up. Sam using the shield, falcon wings and jets (which reminded me of Vanquished) plus Redwing made him feel like Cap, Falcon and Iron Man all rolled up into one. It's really a sight. The costume...the fan in me loves it, the critic in me goes "something about the fabric, especially around the chest area looks a bit iffy." I think I can live with it.

Yeah, Karli's story was unfortunately not as developed as I wanted. I was hoping like something Killmonger like. A villain not just with a justifiable motivation but one you can cheer for and you WANT to see succeed. I mean, I get her angle, trying to blur the line between terrorist and revolutionary, but she almost seemed too cartoony bad. Not like badly written but mustache twirling bad. It just didn't jive with her cause.  And I guess that has to do with the whole politics of it.

I think Killmonger's a great comparison. I was thinking of him a few weeks ago with that one episode. In that movie, Black Panther, you see his backstory in a proper flashback and thus have more of a emotional attachment to who he is and how he got to his path. With Karli, I think she could have benefitted more from something like that. One less speech to a fellow Flag Smasher and instead a flashback showing her life before she got into this line of work. That and sanding down her deeds to be less extreme. Maybe her followers are trying to push her to do worse deeds and she doesn't quite want to do it. I think that WOULD have worked much better with the actress they cast. She has this really vulnerable and insecure face and voice and yet she's threatening Sam's nephews and blowing up buildings....it just doesn't gel right.

Sam's speech: I'm kinda reminded of the infamous Superman's infamous speech from Superman IV: "There will be peace. There will be peace when the people of the world want it so bad they'll have no choice but to make it happen." I joke, it wasn't THAT simplistic by any stretch, but that's kinda where my mind goes. Sam went from a pretty passive character in his own show to having a very active finish, and that part was...a big speech about something. I'll admit I'm not nearly as knowledgeable in the subject material you've mentioned, at all, so I can't really comment on it too much. So yeah.

and the reality is that's just a cop out.

Speaking of cop-outs, and that term was in my mind watching the finale as well, Johnny Walker going from being on the warpath to teaming up with the good guys and heroically saving civilians felt a bit jarring. It kinda felt like it needs a bit more connective tissue.

And then there's the armored car blowing up, followed by a sneaky string-pulling suit smirking. Makes it easy doesn't even begin to cover it.

Also "Wakanda has jurisdiction wherever Wakanda decides to be" *later* "Ok, time to safely hand off Zemo to the Raft. Enjoy chilling out and reading your Machiavelli while the costumed folks beat each other up, again, Zemo." Ok then.

Don't really like Sharon Carter as a crime boss pulling her own strings (or whatever she's doing). Not saying it doesn't technically make sense in this universe, but it just don't feel right.

Now for disappointments that aren't technically story flaws or issues.

-I really wanted a Chris Evans cameo of some kind. I don't know how likely it would have been, but I would have liked to see it.

-I was a bit disappointed Eli didn't have really anything to do other than to show up and say a few lines. He might as well have said "Hi, I'm Patriot. look forward to me in the upcoming Young Avengers movie/show where I may or may not be played by a different actor."

Torres.....was barely a character. I know putting him on the path to being the new Falcon would probably have been clunky as heck, but I was expecting a LITTLE bit more from him. Even Ryan Choi from the Snyder Cut had more of a character arc.

On the plus (?) side: they just announced the followup: Captain America 4. Which is a movie. Uh....guys? What's a "movie"?

Marvel, I hope you had that well in the works in advance, because announcing a new movie when you JUST got out the Shang-Chi trailer and STILL haven't released Black Widow is bat-gauno insane.....Yeah...I still wanna see it.

Okay, that was...ok enough. bring on Bad Batch and Loki! 

[Tomato]

As far as Captain America 4, I get the impression it's only in the pre production stages, so it'll be a bit before a film comes out (probably 2-3 years, if I had to guess). They've probably been working on it since the show stopped filming, but were waiting to see how well it was received before moving forward in case they needed to course correct.

Spoiler

As far as Evans goes, I'm not surprised he didn't show up here. Beyond the fact that the "real" Cap showing up might diminish the impact of Sam taking up the shield, there's not really all that much for him to do other than maybe meet Isaiah at the end (he already told Sam to take up the shield in Endgame)... which, while that would have been cool, I get the impression with the whole Moon conversation and its cheeky follow-up in the finale that the plan was to save that (and the costly contract negotiations to get Evans back) for CA4.

[Shogunn2517]

I know this just might be me fanboying, but Disney has been spoiling us for half a year now and more.

First we get Mandalorian, season 2 about a month later we get Wandavision. Not even a week after that ends we get Falcon and the Winter Soldier and the week after we get the Bad Batch and by time that's gone we got Loki!

Come late Summer they gonna need something else to keep the momentum going!