Into the Bronze Age

[BentonGrey]

Ha, Futurama's Nixon is hilarious!

I've got another Bronze Age post for your viewing pleasures, folks!  Enjoy!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/09/11/into-the-bronze-age-may-1971-part-5/

[BentonGrey]

And this finishes out the month of May.:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/09/14/into-the-bronze-age-may-1970-part-6/

I hope y'all enjoy it!

[BentonGrey]

Welcome to June, folks!  We've got an important issue on tap in this batch, so check it out here:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/09/18/into-the-bronze-age-june-1971-part-1/

[BentonGrey]

Here's another post, for those as care.  Thanks to those of y'all who are reading my ruminations!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/09/25/into-the-bronze-age-june-1971-part-2/

[HarryTrotter]

It was a long time ago,but I think Batman TAS adapted Ras' first apperence almost panel for panel.Like you said.
First time I heard how he figured out Batmans identity,my first thought was: How come nobody else did that? 
Something that always bugged me,Darkseid is menacing enough;his minions are not.Seriously,they look like a poor theater troop.Was that the point?

[daglob]

The mooks, minions, and agents are to keep the heroes occupied while you proceed with your nefarious plan. They are just a distraction.

Muahahahahahahha....

[HarryTrotter]

Okay,Granny Goodness is kinda scary.Kato,circuis Hitler and the rest are just ridicolous.

[daglob]

Kalabak is useful because he is double-o stoopid, and The Deep Six, Mantis, Granny, and the Furies can hold their own against a lot (which does not include Kryptonians, Martians, and the occasional Shazam-powered human) of characters, but, yes, Virmin Vundabarr, Glorious Godfrey. Dr. Bedlam, Kanto, and Desaad are basically one-note characters whose main purpose seems to be to foul up and require that Darkseid save them.

Bear in mind: this was great fun back in the '70s

[BentonGrey]

Yep, HT, B:TAS did indeed adapt that story, and it was great!

Interestingly enough, that's more or less Batman's response as well.

As for Darkseid's minions, I don't know; I think some of them are pretty great.  Obviously Kalibak is just a big, dumb punching bag, but there's value in that.  I've always rather liked Kanto, as I feel like he has a certain style that makes him interesting.  Superman:TAS used him well.  Virmin Vunderbarr, Dr. Beldam, and Glorious Godfrey are basically just plot devices, the setup for a certain type of story or challenge for the hero, but they serve a dramatic purpose.  I actually just re-read Granny Godness's first appearance, and I was struck with what a great character she is.  She's got tons of personality, and her real staying power comes from the fact that she's an inversion of a classic archetype, the motherly/grandmotherly figure.  She's essentially the anti-Ma Kent, and that works on multiple levels, especially in the context of Apokolipitan society.

Haha, who are you calling 'Circus Hitler'?  That's a hilarious description!

[HarryTrotter]

Virmin.
Okay,I stole that from Ygo Arc-V abridged series.
Im just saying that in terms of visual apperence,none of them exactly convey "Im working for satan".But that was probably the point.

[daglob]

Desaad looks like he would work for Darkseid, but Godfrey looking somewhat less than dangerous is all part of his shtick.

[BentonGrey]

Actually, HT, one of my readers recently made a comment that I found quite intriguing.  He pointed out that Kirby's Darkseid was: 'a monster, but a more human monster, aging and with fears and regrets, like Stalin or other dictators.'  I thought that this seemed a very apt analogy, given Kirby's life experience.  He had, after all fought in World War II and lived through the tense early days of the Cold War.  What do the servants of such human monsters look like?  There are the bruisers, the popinjays, the sycophants, and so on.  Darkseid's minions map surprisingly well onto such a canvas.  It is a mythic version of the monsters of our own day, a new mythology to capture and embody the struggles of our world.  I think this may be a productive take on the characters.

[HarryTrotter]

Which makes sense,I guess.
For me two most iconic Darkeid moments (both from Giffen) are Darkseid smiling (which is disturbing because hes actually HAPPY) and him reading Mein Kampf.
Its all seems quite and uneventfull,but it gets scary on several levels.

[BentonGrey]

Huh, yeah, I could see that.

Well folks, I've got a new post ready, and it features a trio of comics that were really quite interesting to cover.  Check them out here:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/09/28/into-the-bronze-age-june-1971-part-3/

[HarryTrotter]

Arent Thanagarians atheists?Considering they killed their gods.But,I guess that was a later thing.Is Hawkman even from Thanagar here?I never could keep track of that.
Btw,next month sees the debut of Swamp Thing.Thats kind of a big thing.

[kkhohoho]

Arent Thanagarians atheists?Considering they killed their gods.

Reminds me of that bit from Star Trek...

WORF: We Klingons killed our Gods. They proved too much trouble than they were worth.

[HarryTrotter]

Well,Klingons are meant to be a commentary on the Soviet Union,so...
On a similar note,prime directive isnt a big thing for the JLA. 
Helping out alien planets and deposing their rulers happens pretty often.

[BentonGrey]

HT: When I mentioned how the moment really was rather fitting for Hawkman, I was actually referencing the angle that Tony Isabella took in Hawkman Vol. 2, where he made the Thanagarians atheists but had the Winged Wonder discover the value of spirituality in a very Kantian fashion (i.e., not all questions can be answered by logic).  I don't know about them killing their gods.  That sounds sorta nuts!

Ha, Kk, that sounds about right for the Klingons.

Yep, the JLA is sort of the anti-Prime Directive!

Thanks for reading, guys!

[HarryTrotter]

That might have been from DCAU?Or maybe its another Geoff Johns thing?Im pretty sure its a '00 thing.Rann-Thanagar war?It will come to me.

Kinda topical,soon Len Wein takes over Justice League and the famous Hawkman/Green Lantern feud will begin.

While googling this I found something I feel obliged to share.And its also kinda topical.
https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-10-hilariously-confusing-origins-of-hawkman-1451537031

[kkhohoho]

The Prime Directive is danger and disease wrapped in darkness and silence. Or to use a far less hyperbolic means of expression, what started off as a well-intentioned guideline turned into an asinine mandate that the various Trek crews stupidly felt compelled to carry out to the letter more often than not, even when doing so tends to go against everyone's interests in the process. I think Riker from the first New Frontier novel (seriously, go check them out if you haven't yet, they're freaking awesome,) puts it best:

RIKER: The Prime Directive, Admiral [Jellico], last time I checked, did not first appear on the wall of Starfleet Headquarters in flaming letters accompanied by a sepulchral voice intoning, Thou Shalt Not Butt In. It's a guide for day-to-day interaction with developing races so that we don't have umpty-ump Starfleet officers running around playing god by their own rules. But this is not day-to-day Admiral. And we're not talking about playing god. We're talking about showing compassion for fellow living beings. Tell me, Admiral, while you were sitting on Deep Space Five waiting for us to show up, did you actually walk around and interact with the refugees? Did you see the misery in their faces, the fear in their eyes? Did you help patch up the wounded, stand by the bedside of the dying, say a prayer for the dead? Or did you sit isolated in your quarters grumbling over the inconvenience? [...] The Prime Directive was created by men and women, no better or worse than any of us, and I respectfully submit that if our hands are so completely tied by it that we sit around impotently, then we have to seriously reconsider what the hell it is we're all about.

In other words, (and to bring this vaguely back on topic,) if the League are going to go around interfering in other planets' affairs, then as long as they're at least actually helping people and making a difference, then I say more power to them, because going the route of the Prime Directive would just be a million times worse.

[daglob]

I wholeheartedly agree about the Prime Directive. But part of why it was there to cause suspense, or to punish the guilty (Omega Glory), or create prevent contamination problems (A Piece of the Action, which reminds me more than a little of Anderson and Dickson's The Sheriff of Canyon Gulch), and drive the plots of all sorts of stories on Star Trek (all of them). Riker's assessment sounds logical and realistic; it's a guideline, and if you violate it, you had better have a good reason (see the 25^th century best seller "The Life and Times of James T. Kirk").

[BentonGrey]

HT, I think I may remember something like that from JLU.  And yes, this is the alien policeman Katar version.

You know, I had thought that the Hawkman/GA antipathy had started with Denny O'Neil, so I was surprised that I didn't encounter it during his tenure.  Still, if I remember correctly from my previous read-through, that antagonism wasn't as bad as I expected.  It will be interesting to analyze it more closely in this read-through.

Yeah, sheesh, DC just could NOT figure out what they wanted to do with this character.  The fact that they didn't have a plan for him post (*sigh* original) Crisis is ridiculous.  Ha, I didn't even know about all of that mess on that list!  Poor Katar is one of the more obvious symptoms of DC's inability to get its act together.

JLA: I agree entirely.  Given the character and moral authority of the (classic) JLA, they are exactly the people to intervene in that fashion and that can produce some great stories.  They are men and women of the highest quality, and theirs is a fantasy universe.  That's a pretty important distinction, because their stories exist in bolder colors and sharper delineation than the real world.  That makes it easier to do what is right, regardless of the consequences.  I'm thinking of the U.S.'s history of intervention during the Cold War, where we did some terrible things in the name of the greater good.

The Prime Directive: Interesting conversation guys!  I pretty much agree, but I think that the context of its original creation is really fascinating in considering the Prime Directive.  It's essentially a complete and unambiguous rejection of colonialism, which was very much a live issue in the 1960s, with decolonization well underway all around the world.  The Prime Directive declares: 'even though we're technologically advanced and may be inclined to look down on other cultures, we do not have the moral authority to determine a civilization's fate.  We don't have the right to change or 'improve' a culture to suit our tastes or value.'  That's pretty interesting.

[kkhohoho]

The Prime Directive: Interesting conversation guys!  I pretty much agree, but I think that the context of its original creation is really fascinating in considering the Prime Directive.  It's essentially a complete and unambiguous rejection of colonialism, which was very much a live issue in the 1960s, with decolonization well underway all around the world.  The Prime Directive declares: 'even though we're technologically advanced and may be inclined to look down on other cultures, we do not have the moral authority to determine a civilization's fate.  We don't have the right to change or 'improve' a culture to suit our tastes or value.'  That's pretty interesting.

When you put it that way, I guess it is. The problem is when they go too far to the other end of the spectrum, and when they do, you get a bunch of Starfleet officers sitting around waiting for a fully inhabited planet to blow up because the poor huddled masses just aren't 'developed' enough for their liking. If the League ever tried that, they might as well just start being Supervillains.

[HarryTrotter]

Like I said before,and what WB missed,is that JLA are not Avengers.They operate on a much bigger scale. 
Maybe we should start a Star Trek thread,since we end up derailing everything with ST discussions.

[daglob]

And this is a problem how?

[BentonGrey]

Kk, I agree, though I find the ethical questions raised by such settings fascinating and absolutely worth exploring.  I think Stargate: SG-1 actually did a surprisingly good job of developing this concept over the course of the show, as they intervened in various cultures in a fairly realistic (given the context) representation of how a real-world government would have acted, and things didn't always work out well.  This eventually made them more hesitant to intervene in internal matters for other worlds.  Of course, they were always willing, when possible, to aid cultures that were facing external threats.  The truth is that intervening in a different culture can be a really difficult balancing act, even without colonial aspirations.  Maybe you prop up a strong man to stave off the influence of an enemy nation and he turns into a monster, like the U.S. did with the Congo/Zaire during the Cold War.  You succeed in preventing a possible worse alternative on the large scale, but on the smaller scale, the one that matters most to the culture in question, it's plenty bad enough.  There are always consequences for such choices, and it can be hard to foresee them. 

This is where the fantasy element, the "heightened reality" of comics comes into play in this conversation.  The League have the wisdom to make the necessary calls, and in their world, being a better, brighter place, it usually works out.  That's an encouraging and inspiring thing.

HT, very, very true.  The League's 'natural' type of story is about big, existential threats, large scale and full of big ideas.

Hey, as long as my little project is prompting interesting discussion, I'm happy! 

[HarryTrotter]

SG-1,another staple of afterschool tv.
It was at its best when it keept thing low-key.Military-science team that explores new planets.Later on they start building starships and having huge battles in Earths orbit (that nobody notices),I lost interest.Proves that longetivity can be a curse.

[BentonGrey]

I actually really liked that element of the show, HT.  They didn't hold the show in artificial stasis, but they let the universe evolve logically.  The humans were out to find weapons and technology that could help them defend Earth, and over the course of the show, they did exactly that.  From abortive starts like retrofitting an alien glider that almost killed its pilots to eventually producing their big ships, it all made sense.  And they actually spent some time along the way with episodes about how they were able to keep their secrets too.  It certainly wasn't a perfect show, but they did a lot of good world building in it.

[HarryTrotter]

If you want to think about it as a live action UFO adaptation.
I rewatched the first season recently and it holds up pretty well.My problem later on is that it went kinda too big.Too Star Trek,I guess?

[BentonGrey]

I imagine that's a matter of taste, but it seemed to me a logical progression.  That being said, the middle seasons are my favorites.  You know, it's clear they really had a great time making that show.  One of my favorite episodes is when they have to deal with the 'TV show,' Wormhole X-Stream, and the entire thing is basically a parody of Stargate, even making fun of Daniel leaving and returning and other foibles of the actual show.  Honestly, it's not necessarily one of the best sci-fi shoes of all time, but it's one of my favorites.