Into the Bronze Age

[HarryTrotter]

Well,like I mentioned before,Superman will be rebooted in January of 1971.So you got that to look forward to.
Benton,a few unrelated thing:
-Maybe I missed it;but is there an index page on the blog?It might be helpful to see everything reviewed so far in one place.
-Out of curiosity;what will be the ending point of the blog?Crisis on infinite Earths?DKR?Watchmen?

[Ouflah]

From looking at the pics of that Superman's Pal Jimmy Olson, it looks as if someone other than Kirby drew the faces for Superman and Jimmy Olson.

[kkhohoho]

From looking at the pics of that Superman's Pal Jimmy Olson, it looks as if someone other than Kirby drew the faces for Superman and Jimmy Olson.

That they did. I forget just who was the Editor in Chief at the time, but whoever it was didn't want Kirby ruining Jimmy and Supes' good looks, because let's face it; when it comes to faces, Kirby ain't pretty. Basically, they thought that two of their most renowned characters of all time looking like cavemen wouldn't sit well with the kiddies and might damage sales, and while it probably wouldn't have been that big of a deal and even seems kind of silly nowadays, for DC back then, it does sort of make sense. Doom Patrol aside, this was their real foray into Marvel-esque territory, and they were only willing to go so far. So to them, redrawing Jimmy and Supes' faces wasn't sheer stupidity; it was a sound business decision more than anything else.

Mind you, it was sheer stupidity, but what can you do?

[BentonGrey]

Ahh!  Now that y'all mention it, I actually do remember having read that!  Thanks for the reminder folks, and good points, Kk.  I've added an addendum to that post with a note about the issue.  Man, that's a crying shame.  I don't think I really appreciated what had been done when I read about that years ago.  I think I get it a bit more now.  Sheesh.

Haha, too grandiose, DJ?

Spade, I'm looking forward to that Superman story.  It's effects are already being felt in Action Comics, apparently. 
-There is currently no index page.  I'm not entirely sure how I'd format such a thing to make it easily updatable and clear.  I'm not adverse to the idea if y'all think it would be useful.  Any suggestions?
-I haven't decided on a precise endpoint, just a year, 1985.  I suppose that Crisis on Infinite Earths is the logical endpoint.  If I can keep this up until then, I might even read and evaluate that event in light of the age that it ends.

[daglob]

Over in the Fantastic Four Wally Wood may have drawn but at the very least inked the Daredevil figures in FF #39. The worst thing is the appearance of Spider-Man in the FF wedding annual: he is a cut out of a Ditko illustration.

As I said, Al Plastino was credited with drawing the faces of Supes and Jimmy (I had forgotten about that). I believe it was mentioned in a later letter page when someone noticed the difference in styles. I'm not sure how long it lasted, but I think that eventually Jack did all the art (when Mike Royer was dong most of the inks). My copies of those comics have been gone for decades. As kkhohoho points out, it was silly, and if memory serves, the explanation was something like they didn't want there to be a sudden shift from the DC house style to the dynamic world of The King all at once. Or something like that.

Considering all the styles of all the artists at DC, you would have thought that by the time these books appeared anyone with black hair and a spit  curl wearing a red yellow and blue suit with an "S" on the front would be assumed to be Superman.

Perhaps they just didn't want him looking like Reed Richards, or had a thing against chin squiggles...

And just think: soon we'll have the Don Rickels episode.

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, I remember the Daredevil and Spidey episodes. 

Urg...I'm really dreading the Don Rickles issues.  Those did NOT age well, assuming they were ever less goofy than they are now.

[Ouflah]

EDIT: Whoops, at first I didn't see that you mentioned who drew the faces, DG!

Take a look at this comparison pic I found:


And here's another interesting one:



It looks as if Kirby's Superman logo had some similarities to the "kingdom come" logo that was used decades later..

[daglob]

Hmmm... those look like Murphy Anderson inks (look at the feathering on Supes' stomach). Like Joe Sinnot and Tom Palmer, Anderson's inks on anybody is fantastic.

Yes, that "S" emblem is very interesting.

[BentonGrey]

I actually linked to Mark Evanier's page in my new postscript, which used those exact images as examples.  He said that Supes' symbol is the only thing that he could draw better than Kirby.

[daglob]

I actually linked to Mark Evanier's page in my new postscript, which used those exact images as examples.  He said that Supes' symbol is the only thing that he could draw better than Kirby.

Re: Evanier's article...

Those idiots turned down a chance for us to see Jack Kirby/Wally Wood art?

The fiends!

[BentonGrey]

I know!  That's proof that terrible decisions aren't just made by modern day comic companies.

But, on a more cheerful note, I come bearing 1971 comics!  Check out the newest edition of Into the Bronze Age here!:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/02/23/into-the-bronze-age-january-1971-part-1/

I've also made some slight improvements to format that should improve the aesthetics and readability of the feature.  I'm slowly updating past posts.  I hope y'all will let me know if you like/don't like it.

[HarryTrotter]

Yeah,our 90's sucked.And Im not just talking about pop culture.Worst.Decade.Ever.
Anyhow,I could say the 2 Clarks situation is similar to current AC storyline,but that might be streching it.And there is the eternal question "Does Superman age?"

[BentonGrey]

Haha, the 90s was a weird decade, a very weird decade. 

Yeah, the 'Superman aging' question is an interesting one.  If he had lost his powers, I suppose he'd lose whatever stopped him from aging.

[daglob]

I barely remember that Superman story. I agree that Clark Kent could have kept on working at The Planet, and might have been Editor in Chief ("Don't call me 'chief'!") by now. I know today it is Clark who dresses up as Superman, while Batman disguises himself as Bruce Wayne, but that wasn't touched upon much in those days as I remember. This is one of many stories with so may plot holes that it makes it almost impossible to enjoy after the age of about 11. It also ignore the likelihood that Superman's  friends (like the whole JLA) would have helped him out, all for the sake of "story". Seems like there is an overall reason for Superman being in the situation he finds himself in, but it has been too long since I read it. The whole defeatist attitude is at odds with the Superman we are usually presented with. What about his adventures on Lexor?

The best stories are about SuperMAN.

The Silver Age Luthor had a sister named Lena (LL again). His family moved away from Smallville to escape the humiliation of having a criminal for a son, and changed their name to Thorul. The sister, as I remember, gained mental powers from an alien critter in a sequence that I'm sure was the basis for a Superboy TV series plot involving Lex's girlfriend. Given that Lex is Superman's age, and I'm guessing that his niece (No L in her first name? How strange...) is Supergirl's age (Superman's age minus about 10), Lena would have had to become a mother soon after leaving town. Of course, this was all made up anyhow, and I'm sure it has been retconned out of existence. I don't remember reading the Supergirl series here; Mike Sekowsky had done better art, and this just leaves me cold.

[BentonGrey]

I barely remember that Superman story. I agree that Clark Kent could have kept on working at The Planet, and might have been Editor in Chief ("Don't call me 'chief'!") by now. I know today it is Clark who dresses up as Superman, while Batman disguises himself as Bruce Wayne, but that wasn't touched upon much in those days as I remember. This is one of many stories with so may plot holes that it makes it almost impossible to enjoy after the age of about 11. It also ignore the likelihood that Superman's  friends (like the whole JLA) would have helped him out, all for the sake of "story". Seems like there is an overall reason for Superman being in the situation he finds himself in, but it has been too long since I read it. The whole defeatist attitude is at odds with the Superman we are usually presented with. What about his adventures on Lexor?

The best stories are about SuperMAN.

Yeah, the setup just didn't fit with the character or the setting.  I know Dorfman had limited space to work with, but he should have given us something more if he wanted to make it work.

I realize that the portrayal of Superman that is near and dear to my heart creates expectations that are, to a degree, anachronistic.  Nonetheless, that is the only portrayal of the Superman/Clark dynamic that actually makes sense with his Silver Age origins.  Clark was raised on Earth from a very tender age until the rolling present, raised as Clark Kent, not as Superman.  Clark's importance and centrality to his identity is inherent in the concept.  You can't have the grounded, essentially American origins and have the perfect flying sun god with no humanity.  They're mutually exclusive.  I'm curious if Superboy will feature any better insight into the character when I start reading it this month.

Lexor, ha, I've never read any of those stories, but I just read about the adventures on the DC database.  What a great concept!

Very well said there.  That is it in a nutshell, no?

The Silver Age Luthor had a sister named Lena (LL again). His family moved away from Smallville to escape the humiliation of having a criminal for a son, and changed their name to Thorul. The sister, as I remember, gained mental powers from an alien critter in a sequence that I'm sure was the basis for a Superboy TV series plot involving Lex's girlfriend. Given that Lex is Superman's age, and I'm guessing that his niece (No L in her first name? How strange...) is Supergirl's age (Superman's age minus about 10), Lena would have had to become a mother soon after leaving town. Of course, this was all made up anyhow, and I'm sure it has been retconned out of existence. I don't remember reading the Supergirl series here; Mike Sekowsky had done better art, and this just leaves me cold.

Actually, in the letter column of that very issue, Sekowsky lays out the brief origins of Nasty Luthor.  Apparently, she's the daughter of Lex's older sister who eloped to Europe with a no-goodnick and was disowned by the family.  Man, what must the Luthors have done to their kids?

Yeah, this Supergirl series isn't exactly electrifying.  Sekowsky's art is significantly less spectacular and even more uneven than that which I enjoyed on Manhunter.

[daglob]

Actually, in the letter column of that very issue, Sekowsky lays out the brief origins of Nasty Luthor.  Apparently, she's the daughter of Lex's older sister who eloped to Europe with a no-goodnick and was disowned by the family.  Man, what must the Luthors have done to their kids?

Yeah, this Supergirl series isn't exactly electrifying.  Sekowsky's art is significantly less spectacular and even more uneven than that which I enjoyed on Manhunter.

Lex's sister was younger. At least Lena was...

[BentonGrey]

Right, this was specified to be an older sister never seen on panel.

[daglob]

Yeah, people in the Silver Age just grow relatives...

[BentonGrey]

And 'old friends.' 

[HarryTrotter]

And 'old friends.' 

So does John Constantine,but thats a different story.
Actually,the niece in question later shows up in All Star Superman.Once again,Grant Morrison remembers.

[daglob]

I guess that's like Catwoman's brother.

[BentonGrey]

Catwoman's brother, huh?  Ha, that's a new one on me!

Spade, All-Star Superman (you really can't abbreviate that, can you?) was actually the only place I'd ever seen her before.  I mentioned it in my post.

Well gents, to celebrate a lovely Sunday, I bring y'all a new Bronze Age post!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/02/26/into-the-bronze-age-january-1971-part-2/

[HarryTrotter]

Somehow I missed that.My bad.
Modern sociopathic version?I see you are familiar with Tom Kings run.
I seem to recall the HoM segment lasting longer,but that aside;two solid Batman tales.

[BentonGrey]

No worries, I only mentioned it briefly.

Haha, I can't say I am, but every modern interpretation of the character I've encountered has been thoroughly unlikeable.

Yeah, it was a good month for Batman.  Interestingly, I remembered the HoM story existing, but I remembered nothing about it, though I must have read it a few years ago.  It's amazing how many of these that I've read before I don't remember.  I've read all of the JLA stories, a good chunk of Batman and Detective, and well into the late 70s in B&B.

[HarryTrotter]

I keep telling you  to read Paul Dini's Detective Comics run.
To generalize(and excluding Crazy Steve),I think Batmans characterization has been mostly consistent from say 2000 to 2011.And it wasnt all that different from O'Neill/Adams one from what I can tell.Okay,he was sometimes high during Morrisons tenure.

[daglob]

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/King_of_Cats

I even did a hex and skin for him...

[BentonGrey]

Spade, I will probably read Dini's run one day, as I've got a lot of love for his work, but it's hard to read any modern DC book because the universe is so ugly.  I'd agree that his characterization was pretty consistent, and I'd say it was consistent in its excesses as well.  Batman being a bit anti-social and cold is fitting.  Batman being a sociopath who uses people relentlessly and drives everyone close to him away is something else.  They even erred too much on that side in JLU at times, not to mention the revival episodes of TAS and Beyond.  It's odd, because in the actual TAS seasons, they got him pretty much perfectly. 

Ha!  DG, I had no idea.  How strange!  I wonder why 'King of Cats'?  One would suspect that Catman already existed, but apparently Mr. Kyle preempted him by almost a decade.

[daglob]

From what I understand he even survived Crisis and Zero Hour, although 52 or Rebirth may have been the "death" of him.

[BentonGrey]

That's crazy, DG!

Well gents, here is another post.  Enjoy!:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/03/02/into-the-bronze-age-january-1970-part-3/

[spydermann93]

https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/03/02/into-the-bronze-age-january-1970-part-3/

Going back in time a year, are we?