Into the Bronze Age

[HarryTrotter]

Oliver is pretty much a prototype for Lisa Simpson.But thats not new.
Well,I cant find anything to say except: Others did it better.Which could be a catchphrase for this book.Seriously,how often does "journey INTO/across America" happen in comics?Preacher,Last American,Judge Dredd Cursed Earth(and a few more),Old Man Logan,Shade the Changing Man...
I imagine Doctor Fate operates on a different scale then JLA,and a different sense of morality,being almost a god.So it doesnt bother me that much.

[kkhohoho]

I imagine Doctor Fate operates on a different scale then JLA,and a different sense of morality,being almost a god.So it doesnt bother me that much.

Well, sort of. He is a card carrying member of the JSA after all. But at the same time, someone on his or the Spectre's level would probably still have a different and broader view of things anyway. Which makes you wonder why the both of them were ever on the team in the first place, considering that that they make the rest of the JSA look like tiny ants on a sidewalk. The only reason they joined the JSA is because Gardner Fox said so, because there's no good reason why they should have outside of maybe being reservists. At least Dr.Strange needed help when he formed the Defenders, but Dr.Fate doesn't even have that excuse. Hell, in The JSA Returns, (kickass late 90's throwback to the Golden Age JSA to promote the 90's JSA; it's really worth a look,) he and the Specter get taken out of the plot early on because otherwise, they'd probably save the day in 5 minutes with their combined abilities thanks to modern storytelling that would actually bother to take that into account. It's why the Spectre was the only character who's successors never joined the 90's JSA, or why the 90's JSA's Doctor Fate only participated in missions that actually required his abilities; because they're just too far above everyone else to do otherwise.

[HarryTrotter]

Whatever it is, sometimes it's practically the most powerful thing in the universe. Sometimes it's little more than a bloke in white tights and a green hood...
John Constantine;Books of Magic
Even if his power really varies,having Wrath of God present would solve anything in a page or two,no argument there. 
I don't know all that much about Doctor Fate,so I cant really say.
Yeah,JSA was great.Pretty much the last good thing James Robinson did.And I really cant say enough about Ostranders Spectre.Its pretty much a must-read.

[kkhohoho]

Whatever it is, sometimes it's practically the most powerful thing in the universe. Sometimes it's little more than a bloke in white tights and a green hood...
John Constantine;Books of Magic
Even if his power really varies,having Wrath of God present would solve anything in a page or two,no argument there. 
I don't know all that much about Doctor Fate,so I cant really say.
Yeah,JSA was great.Pretty much the last good thing James Robinson did.And I really cant say enough about Ostranders Spectre.Its pretty much a must-read.

No, that would be one of the last good things Geoff Johns did. I love Robinson for Starman and The Golden Age, and you gotta' give him credit for getting the 90's JSA book off of the ground, but it's Johns that really made that series into what it is. It's like thanking Len Wein for Swamp Thing. Sure, he may have created the character, but it's Alan Moore that really turned the comic into the tour de force that it's known for, and he's the one who should (and rightfully does,) earn it's praises. Same with X-Men and Chris Claremont, or just about any given series you can think of. So while I should still thank Robinson for getting it off the ground, it's Johns who truly turned the comic into a series worth reading.

And yeah, I've been meaning to get around to Ostrander's Spectre one of these days. You'd think that after reading the hell out of his Suicide Squad, I'd have already devoured anything else he's done, but that just hasn't been the case. Maybe I'll take a look if I ever get around to doing another JSA/Golden Age Related readthrough. 90's JSA was and is kickass, but so is All Star Sqaudron, Infinity Inc, John's Hawkman, Robinson's Starman, etc. There's a ton of JSA/Golden Age related material that's just a blast to read, and maybe one of these days, I'll finally give them all the second read through they deserve, while also throwing other series I've neglected up until now like Ostrander's Spectre or Sandman Mystery Theater into the bargain. Hell, I'll probably do it next year. But in the meantime, I've still got plenty of other good stuff to finish off first.

[HarryTrotter]

He still did something,so I give him credit there.But yes,It was Johns rest of the way.
Also,Hawkworld was pretty good.But dont think too hard about DC continuity there.

[kkhohoho]

So I decided to just check out Ostrander's Spectre now for the hell of it and MY GOD is this amazing. In just four issues, Ostrander's taken a character that I never really cared about that much before and only saw at best as a reoccuring supporting role outside of the original JSA and turned him into one of the most fascinating and compelling characters I've seen from DC. I also like the fact that he's still been at the crime-fighting game for 50 years in-universe by this point, rather than squeezing all of that into a sliding timescale. I know it's the same with the rest of the classic JSA'ers, but most of them didn't actually get their own modern series outside of Hawkman and Sandman, and the latter still took place in the 30's. It's a nice angle to work off of which only adds to the character and enhances him, as anyone might start to lose touch with both reality and themselves when they've been dealing out death and staring in the face of the worst elements of society for 50+ years. And the art's just fantastic to boot. It's a great series so far, and it's sure to get even better from here.

[HarryTrotter]

Mandrake was the man for the job,when it comes to art there.The series was actually the strongest when it dealt with religion(Ostrander was a theology student),and you cant say that for a lot of comics.
Ofc,DC didnt really bother to collect Spectre.

[BentonGrey]

Lots of interesting things here that I'll comment on later, but for the moment, Merry Christmas from Into the Bronze Age!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2016/12/24/into-the-bronze-age-september-1970-part-6/

[HarryTrotter]

I don't really have a lot to comment this time 
-A villain with a train theme makes sense.Or at least doesn't make any less sense then a villain with a dodo theme.
-So far,Sekowsky seems like a guy with good ideas,but he cant really get a plot going.

[daglob]

Story I once read about Sekowsky:

Sekowsky was fast; really fast. He always got stuff in 'way ahead of the deadline, and then went on to his next job. An editor complained that his work was too rushed, so Sekowsky did his work for that editor the same as always, but waited until nearer the deadline to send it in. The editor complimented him on the increased quality of his work since he had slowed down.

[daglob]

Regarding kryptonite: at some point in the Silver Age, it was said that Kal-El's rocket was shot into a space warp of some kind (those are moderately plentiful in SF; the most recent one I can think of is the wormhole in the vicinity of Deep Space 9), and that the solar system at the other end. Over the years, kryptonite meteors, of various colors, drifted into the warp/wormhole and ended up on Earth.

Since at other times Kal's rocket had an experimental warp drive, who knows if this is canon or has been Crisised/Zero Houred/52ed/Rebirthed out of existence.

At another time, it was also implied that Krypton was something like 30 light years away.

...and lest we forget: "100 Years... Lost, Stolen, or Strayed", and "The Super-Brat From Krypton". That little trip to earth was quite eventful.

[BentonGrey]

Well gents, here is a new, post Christmas entry of Into the Bronze Age!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2016/12/26/into-the-bronze-age-october-1970-part-1/

Good points about Dr. Fate and the Spectre.  They really don't fit in with the JSA as regular members.  That's actually why I didn't include them in my JSA campaign in the DCUG.  I think they work much better as background figures, moving in their own worlds and only occasionally intervening in that of the JSA. 

I don't really have a lot to comment this time 
-A villain with a train theme makes sense.Or at least doesn't make any less sense then a villain with a dodo theme.
-So far,Sekowsky seems like a guy with good ideas,but he cant really get a plot going.

Ha, yeah, the train theme is really not much worse than many another, I suppose.  As for Sekowsky, he certainly is an imaginative guy, but he can't seem to catch a break.  Unlike with Jason Quest, this is actually a shame with Starker.

Story I once read about Sekowsky:

Sekowsky was fast; really fast. He always got stuff in 'way ahead of the deadline, and then went on to his next job. An editor complained that his work was too rushed, so Sekowsky did his work for that editor the same as always, but waited until nearer the deadline to send it in. The editor complimented him on the increased quality of his work since he had slowed down.

Ha!  That's hilarious, and it sounds about right.

Regarding kryptonite: at some point in the Silver Age, it was said that Kal-El's rocket was shot into a space warp of some kind (those are moderately plentiful in SF; the most recent one I can think of is the wormhole in the vicinity of Deep Space 9), and that the solar system at the other end. Over the years, kryptonite meteors, of various colors, drifted into the warp/wormhole and ended up on Earth.

Since at other times Kal's rocket had an experimental warp drive, who knows if this is canon or has been Crisised/Zero Houred/52ed/Rebirthed out of existence.

At another time, it was also implied that Krypton was something like 30 light years away.

...and lest we forget: "100 Years... Lost, Stolen, or Strayed", and "The Super-Brat From Krypton". That little trip to earth was quite eventful.

That's very interesting, DG!  I knew something about that, but I wasn't aware that it had been established that clearly.  It would have been better if they had acknowledged such mechanics in this story, even if only slightly.

[HarryTrotter]

As mentioned before,Superman does have a son now,so wish granted?Its not really the SAME Superman,but it counts.
People complain that superheroes dont do enough,then they complain when they take over.No pleasing them.
Even todays industry seems to have moved away from the theme of proactive heroes.So thats a theme done to death.

[BentonGrey]

And another one!  I'm trying to get some of these written while I have the time.
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2016/12/28/into-the-bronze-age-october-1970-part-2/

Ha, I don't know, Spade, does a different Superman count?

Well, there is definitely no pleasing everyone.  There have actually been some pretty good stories written about that too.

I'd say the mainstream books have moved away from the proactive heroes, but it continues to be a productive theme.  Plenty of independent books still explore it.  What would the world be like of there were superpowered beings that could exert their will?

[kkhohoho]

Good points about Dr. Fate and the Spectre.  They really don't fit in with the JSA as regular members.  That's actually why I didn't include them in my JSA campaign in the DCUG.  I think they work much better as background figures, moving in their own worlds and only occasionally intervening in that of the JSA.

Maybe, but I've been reading Ostrander's Spectre lately, and he actually makes for a convincing case for Specter being a card-carrying member of the JSA, at least in the early days. In Ostrander's run, it was implied that the reason the Spectre hung around with the JSA for so long despite being way above everyone else's paygrade was that spending time with other humans and fellow Mystery Men helped him to reconnect to his humanity; to help himself feel human and alive despite no longer being either. But a night out with Hawkman and Hawkgirl put a damper on that, as he came to the conclusion that he was no longer truly alive or human where it mattered and didn't deserve to be with those who were, especially the world's greatest heroes. He decided it was time to stop fooling himself, and only truly started to reconnect with his humanity again decades down the line. (Just in time for the Ostrander run in fact. ) So while you could argue that he doesn't have much of a place with the team, I also think that he does sort sort of work (at least within those first several years or so,) with that context in mind.

[HarryTrotter]

@Benton Miracleman: Olympus answered it best,probably.
Im having trouble remembering anything with the proactive theme in recent times.Usualy,by proactive they mean ripping off Authority.

[BentonGrey]

Howdy folks, here is another Into the Bronze Age post!

https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/01/07/into-the-bronze-age-october-1970-part-3/

Spade, I suppose the famous example is the Squadron Supreme Maxi-series. 

Interesting, Kk.  I've never read those stories, though I've heard great things about them.  They're in that gray area for me, where I don't read much, having focused on what came before.

[HarryTrotter]

Spade, I suppose the famous example is the Squadron Supreme Maxi-series.

They are not all that similar,even if they are from roughly the same time.I would recommend you hunt down Miracleman now that its back in print(Hey,Marvel did something good),but I doubt you would like it,no offense.I get the feeling you dont like Alan Moore.

[BentonGrey]

I don't dislike Alan Moore, but I often find his work not to my taste.  He's brilliant, but brilliance is only part of the equation for good stories.

Here we go with another Bronze Age post:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/01/11/into-the-bronze-age-october-1970-part-4/

[kkhohoho]

I don't dislike Alan Moore, but I often find his work not to my taste.  He's brilliant, but brilliance is only part of the equation for good stories.

Here we go with another Bronze Age post:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/01/11/into-the-bronze-age-october-1970-part-4/

You ever read his Supreme? Because that might be more up your alley. It's basically Silver Age Superman done right.

[HarryTrotter]

Im sure I mentioned it before,there is also his Tom Strong,a great pulp style series.

[BentonGrey]

I haven't read Supreme, but I have actually read Tom Strong.  I own most if not all of that series.  I quite like it, though there are touches that I don't care for (his contempt for conventional sexual morality).  Nonetheless, he did a wonderful job creating a fascinating setting out of an excellent distillation of pulp tropes.

[kkhohoho]

I haven't read Supreme

SHAME.

(JK.)

[HarryTrotter]

The true masterpiece of "the original writer" DR an Quinch.Those who havent should read that.Like right now.
I cant really remember anything terribly sexual in Tom Strong.I could name some weird examples from Moores other works thou.
On the actual topic;the whole trial thing felt really contrived and it does come out of nowhere,But Oliver didnt compare anyone to Hitler for a whole issue,so there is that.

[BentonGrey]

Ha!  Right, an issue without Godwin's Law being invoked is a good issue.  The trial makes sense, in general concept, with the Guardian beginning to act 'irrationally.'  It makes sense that the other Guardians would be concerned.  It doesn't make sense that they'd farm it out to some planet we've never heard of.

Tom Strong didn't have much that gave me pause, but there are a few moments, entirely commonplace and all too familiar, that simply indicated a disdain for conventional sexual morality.  Such moments are nothing compared to his excesses in other stories, and they are the types of things that most modern writers would do, so it wasn't anything particular to his work, just something that hurt my enjoyment of the series.  In reading actual pulp stories, for the most part they're more moral.  It's just a shame that to get modern sophistication and complexity, we also tend to get a modern lack of values. 

[HarryTrotter]

And I thought you 70's people were chill about that sort of thing.You had the whole underground comix scene. 
Okay,jokes aside,I guess I can understand why you see it that way.

[BentonGrey]

Haha, nope, I'm actually a child of the 80s.  I just like Bronze Age comics. 

[BentonGrey]

I guess I'm just a fellow with old fashioned principles, Spade my friend.

Anyway, it's time for the moment I've been waiting for, the beginning of the Fourth World!  Here is another edition of Into the Bronze Age!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/01/13/into-the-bronze-age-october-1970-part-5/

[HarryTrotter]

Seems like Superman and Lois married somebody every 2 months.Here is a classy explanation from Mort Weisinger why that doesnt count.In 1961,probably to a 10 year old.

On the current topic,Kirby has an okay start,I guess.And why does Lois even leave her house at this point? :p

[spydermann93]

"...neither one of these marriages was ever consummated."

That we know of!