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Into the Bronze Age

Started by BentonGrey, January 02, 2016, 09:16:24 PM

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kkhohoho

Quote from: BentonGrey on December 09, 2016, 12:21:09 AM
Ha, great discussion guys!  Yeah, at the least, you'd think the gun store owner would want the publicity of having Batman buy a gun in his store!

Hm...

"I'm Batman, and I don't touch guns! Except when I do. Like in my very first issue. Man, that takes me back. I still remember when I used to fling superstitious and cowardly lots into vats of acid. Fun times..."
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

HarryTrotter

^Ah,the Golden Age,when Batman did kill people.Zach Snyder must have been a fan of the era.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

daglob

Did the Golden Age Superman kill, or did he just threaten it?

Snyder wanted to do The Dark Knight Returns and The Death of Superman, and didn't want to have to wait 60 years to do them. Same way John Millius wanted to do Tower of the Elephant, and Queen of the Black Coast, adding a little of A Witch Shall Be Born despite the events being separated by years in Conan's life (no matter whose chronology you use).

I wonder if Snyder is going to do The Nail for the Justice League movie...

HarryTrotter

And its worth mentioning that despite Snyders own claims,Batman never kills anyone in DKR.He uses rubber bullets,and police never mentions murder in his list of crimes,so yeah,not even Frank Miller took it that far.He did shoot Darkseid on a separate occasion.  :rolleyes:

About Golden age Superman;Im not sure he killed anyone PERSONALLY,but he was okay with leaving criminals to die.And he did threatened people with death.Im really not an expert when it comes to those days.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Ouflah

Even the Punisher used to use rubber "mercy" bullets. It seems like eventually all rubber bullets get switched to real bullets because people need to die to make things "edgy."
"Superhero deaths are basically an unproven hypothesis at this point."
-Mike Exner III

HarryTrotter

^I think that was just the Spiderman TAS,and maybe just a few occasions in the comic.
And in his defense,when he debuted in '74,an anti-hero who actually KILLED criminals was a NEW thing.After the wacky 90's,not so much.
And Conway said he intended the character to be a villain,but he got REALLY popular,and the rest is history.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

daglob

Quote from: Spade on December 09, 2016, 05:21:12 PM
^I think that was just the Spiderman TAS,and maybe just a few occasions in the comic.
And in his defense,when he debuted in '74,an anti-hero who actually KILLED criminals was a NEW thing.After the wacky 90's,not so much.
And Conway said he intended the character to be a villain,but he got REALLY popular,and the rest is history.

Yeah, The Executioner is still being published, too.

HarryTrotter

Well,Foolkiller also debuted a month or two after the Punisher.He must have been really popular,if he earned a parody so soon.But not to sidetrack into Man-Things swamp too much.
Another thing about DKR,it wasnt really the first thing to make Batman serious,just kinda the most famous.Steve Englehart,Neal Adams and Danny O'neil laid the groundworks for todays Batman right around this time.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

daglob

"C'mere Joker."

"Oh no. Fight you when the anger is upon you? I might be insane, but I'm not crazy", or something like that.

Better than Batman landing between The Joker and The Punisher, turning to The Joker and saying "Run", but only just.

Batman's ears got longer, his cape billowed, his eyes slitted... actually, it strikes me that today's Batman is a parody of the O'Neil/Adams version.

Ouflah

Quote from: Spade on December 09, 2016, 05:21:12 PM
^I think that was just the Spiderman TAS,and maybe just a few occasions in the comic.
I was pretty sure in his early appearances with Spider-Man and Daredevil he used rubber bullets.

Huh, maybe I'm remembering wrong. I didn't even watch any episodes with Punisher from TAS.
"Superhero deaths are basically an unproven hypothesis at this point."
-Mike Exner III

HarryTrotter

#130
@Daglob Different artists,different styles.I think Kelley Johns did it best. :)

@Outflah Im 100% certain about Spiderman TAS,but not so much about the early career.I could dig up Circle of Blood to check that out.Thou,that came out a decade or so later,and things were different then.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

kkhohoho

Quote from: Spade on December 09, 2016, 08:03:46 PM
@Daglob Different artists,different styles.I think Kelley Johns did it best. :)

@Outflah Im 100% certain about Spiderman TAS,but not so much about the early career.I could dig up Circle of Blood to check that out.Thou,that came out a decade or so later,and things were different then.

...What the hell is with his right knee? If that's even a knee. It looks like his frikking stomach. Did Batman start putting on the pounds or did he just take up Dick Grayson Age 12's high-carb rat diet?
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

spydermann93

His knee looks like it has a face of its own. :blink:

Ouflah

As if his knee is the only problem with that picture.  :lol:
"Superhero deaths are basically an unproven hypothesis at this point."
-Mike Exner III

daglob

I'm pretty sure that there are muscles on that figure that do not exist in nature...

Ouflah

It's like what would happen if Bane quadrupled his intake of steroids.

And got giant goosebumps.
"Superhero deaths are basically an unproven hypothesis at this point."
-Mike Exner III

BentonGrey

#136
Ha!  Y'all are cracking me up.  Man, that thing is hideous.  Everything about that image is wrong.  Everything.  Apparently Batman has plates on his back like a stegosaurus. 

To shift the conversation from Batman to...well...more Batman, here's another edition of Into the Bronze Age!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2016/12/09/into-the-bronze-age-september-1970-part-3/

Quote from: Spade on December 09, 2016, 04:38:44 PM
And its worth mentioning that despite Snyders own claims,Batman never kills anyone in DKR.He uses rubber bullets,and police never mentions murder in his list of crimes,so yeah,not even Frank Miller took it that far.He did shoot Darkseid on a separate occasion.  :rolleyes:

About Golden age Superman;Im not sure he killed anyone PERSONALLY,but he was okay with leaving criminals to die.And he did threatened people with death.Im really not an expert when it comes to those days.

Yeah, my friends and I joked quite a bit about the fact that Snyder misunderstood his source material more profoundly and more widely than even my slowest, dimmest freshmen lit students could manage.  That's impressive.

Interestingly, Batman's grim and gritty Golden Age period really only lasted a short time, as Robin debuted somewhere around a year later, and the Dark Knight got a bit brighter pretty quickly after that.  He was still miles more serious than the Silver Age Batman, but he wasn't carrying a gun and killing people.  Even in his very earliest stories, I imagine you could count the times he actually used that gun (not counting monsters or what have you) on one hand.

Golden Age Superman didn't kill, per se, but he did things that would, realistically, kill a human being, like throw them into the atmosphere.  It's questionable whether these acts were meant to be cartoonish or serious, though.

Great conversation, guys!
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

HarryTrotter

Batman and Black Canary?There is another fun Frank Miller tale...
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

BentonGrey

God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

kkhohoho

Quote from: BentonGrey on December 13, 2016, 09:08:38 PM
And here's another one!  Up next is a Green Arrow/Green Lantern issue.  Yay?
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2016/12/13/into-the-bronze-age-september-1970-part-4/

Has Green Arrow declared that his WARD IS A JUNKIE! yet? Or is that one coming up?
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

spydermann93

What!? HIS WARD IS A JUNKIE?!?

BentonGrey

Ha!  No, that little gem still awaits us.  The current issue is the one about Native Americans that, despite trying to be socially conscious, is full of dialog from a 60s western.  I'll probably write up that part of the post tonight, as I finished the story today.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

HarryTrotter

IDK,Flash had an interesting setup,but kind of a lazy resolution.
Unrelated,wasnt Haunted Tank revived in early '00?But in Iraq this time?There is another lazy reboot trope.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

BentonGrey

Well, I agree to a point, Spade, but I enjoyed the mechanism of the resolution.  I saw it coming because of the Law of Conservation of Detail, (it was Chekhov's lipstick, after all), but I still found the idea charming.  I'd have preferred a stronger use be made of pretty much all of the story's elements, but nonetheless, I thought it worked.  Accusing Kanigher of lazy writing is usually a pretty safe bet, though.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

HarryTrotter

And now for Green Lantern/Green Arrow. :)
Did they accuse Hal of not doing anything for black people already?Thats my favorite part.
Ehem,no offense meant to anyone,but that was just bizarre.He saved Earth a few times,that should count. ;)
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

BentonGrey

Ha, yeah.  I covered that one here:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2016/03/15/into-the-bronze-age-april-1970-part-2/

My reaction was pretty much the same as yours.  What did Green Lantern do for you?  How about save your life, along with that of every other person on Earth.  It makes that scene rather ridiculous, despite the validity of the critique in general.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

daglob

Guys, guys, guys... given 'em some slack. They were trying to give Hal some personality instead of him being a misogynistic jerk all the time. ;)


kkhohoho

Quote from: BentonGrey on December 16, 2016, 03:01:39 PM
Ha, yeah.  I covered that one here:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2016/03/15/into-the-bronze-age-april-1970-part-2/

My reaction was pretty much the same as yours.  What did Green Lantern do for you?  How about save your life, along with that of every other person on Earth.  It makes that scene rather ridiculous, despite the validity of the critique in general.

The only thing that could make it worse is if someone came up to GL and told him, "Only there's skins you've never bothered with; the black skins! And the tan skins! And the red skins! And the pale skins! And the slightly brown but not too brown skins! And the kind of yellow but kind of white-ish skins! And the..."
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

HarryTrotter

A similar thing happens with Superman once.Only,Superman,not being braindead,responds its not about race,but about being the best person you can be.
TBF I get what they were trying to do.Present Oliver as chaotic to Hals lawful.But the execution sucks.
The same team later handled the same conflict better in Ring,Arrow and the Bat.Which dealt with the duos first meeting in not-Vietnam.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

BentonGrey

Well gents, here is the next iteration of that very comic, along with a new Justice League tale!  Enjoy!:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2016/12/17/into-the-bronze-age-september-1970-part-5/

Haha, yeah.  It's a really ridiculous thing to say to a guy who routinely saves the entire planet.  I'm reminded of seeing an acquaintance of mine take Mother Teresa to task after her death for having not done something he considered important.  I remember thinking, 'really?  And what have you done that gives you the right to judge Mother-freaking-Teresa?'  There's a scale to these things, after all.

Yes, I get what O'Neil was after, but I've already seen, in the very same year, some better attempts to address those concerns.  This book is just plain ridiculous.

Spade, I didn't know that.  I've never read that.  I'll have to check it out.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/