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Author Topic: fx questions from a beginner  (Read 4068 times)

Offline Amazo Version 2.2

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fx questions from a beginner
« on: April 29, 2015, 08:42:41 PM »
normally i would go to cyber burn for help with nifskope related questions, but I know he has a lot on his plate right now, so i thought i would start a thread for anyone interested in learning to make fx. i'm hoping that if people post fx related questions here, then maybe when the questions are answered, this could be like a ongoing tutorial for fx making.

my first question: do i have to do anything special to a mesh's character nif in order to use it as a core nif in a fx?
For anyone, and everyone, who has ever done anything to improve the FF/FFvs3R gaming experience, I want to say thank you. Life is so short, and you have all brought me so much joy. I hope that one day, I am somehow able to return the kindness and generosity that all of you have shown.

Offline Cyber Burn

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2015, 01:07:44 PM »
Hey Robot, this is where I go to take a break from what's on my plate, so I'm always willing to answer your questions if possible.

As for your question, I guess it depends on what you are trying to do. You may be able to get away with just re-naming the Character Nif to Core Nif, but without knowing what you're trying to do, it kind of limits how much help I can provide.

Offline Amazo Version 2.2

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2015, 04:57:53 PM »
heya cyber, thanx for responding, i'm looking to use the round, spikey part of tommyboy's mr fantastic mesh as a projectile. I deleted all of the other bodies, so just that piece is left, but i'm not sure if there's anything else i need to do to the character nif in order to use it as my projectile.
For anyone, and everyone, who has ever done anything to improve the FF/FFvs3R gaming experience, I want to say thank you. Life is so short, and you have all brought me so much joy. I hope that one day, I am somehow able to return the kindness and generosity that all of you have shown.

Offline daglob

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2015, 09:35:42 PM »
There are "astral projections" that use a character nif, but I've never looked at them. Phoenix and Professor X for sure. I even lifted the texture from each and put into the proper character mesh.

Offline Cyber Burn

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2015, 02:24:35 AM »
heya cyber, thanx for responding, i'm looking to use the round, spikey part of tommyboy's mr fantastic mesh as a projectile. I deleted all of the other bodies, so just that piece is left, but i'm not sure if there's anything else i need to do to the character nif in order to use it as my projectile.

I just took a very quick look at that Mesh, and if you deleted everything else, then I think you should be good to go. You just need to rename the "Character.Nif" to "Core.Nif", and then add in an "End.Nif". But let me know if you have any trouble/issues, and I'll take a look at it for you.

Offline Amazo Version 2.2

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2015, 09:30:45 PM »
thanx cyber, i'll give that a run through.  :thumbup:
For anyone, and everyone, who has ever done anything to improve the FF/FFvs3R gaming experience, I want to say thank you. Life is so short, and you have all brought me so much joy. I hope that one day, I am somehow able to return the kindness and generosity that all of you have shown.

Offline mac402

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2015, 10:20:03 AM »
I'd like to ask about something that bothered me for a long time. The fx from FF1 when used in FFvT3R either as area, explosive projectiles or direct attacks will not trigger the power until the whole animation has ended. I see there is a different format used for those but can one somehow convert FF1 fx's to make them behave properly. I tried copying the fx from old nif file into a FFvT3R version nif file but nifskope will not allow it due to incompatible versions. Is there any other way to fix it?

Offline Cyber Burn

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2015, 06:52:09 PM »
I believe that if you replace the "End.Nif" from the FF1 FX with an "End.Nif" from a FFvt3R FX, then you should get rid of the delay issue. Just make sure that you use either an "End.Nif" that is similar to what you want, or alter one to make it look like what you want. If you still have trouble with this let me know, maybe we can work something out to help you get what you want.

Offline mac402

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2015, 11:52:09 AM »
Yes, that fixes delay in exploding projectiles, though I couldn't fix FX's that were direct attacks because they don't use end.nif at all. To be a bit more specific there is an FX from FF1 that creates a green golem with cool animation and I thought it would suit the GL Kyle Rayner, but the damage is not dealt when the animation would suggest but until the whole effect played out. It is a direct attack and so I can't swap the core.nif with something else b/c the main FX will be lost.

Offline Cyber Burn

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2015, 01:27:26 PM »
I actually don't do a lot of Direct Attack FX's, but my first suggestion would be to convert that "Core.Nif" to FFvt3R. I think this has come up before, so let me see if I can find anything on this.

Offline mac402

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2015, 04:17:17 PM »
Worked! :) But I gotta admit it was pretty dumb of me not trying to use NifConverter in the first place (somehow I thought it only works on characters). Thank you for helping me out Cyber Burn. Since this topic is for learning about FX's here is the procedure of converting fx nifs from FF1 to FFvT3R in case anyone else wants to know:

1. Convert the nif file that will play last (either end.nif or core.nif) with nifconverter i.e.: nifconvert core.nif core_new.nif.
2. Open the new converted file in NifSkope and add to the SceneRoot a new NiNode and name it Root_NoteTrack (left window, right click -> attach node -> NiNode, double click on the right to the node to edit its name).
3a. If there is a NiTextKeyExtraData already then disattach it from SceneRoot node and attach it to the Root_NoteTrack node (bottom window in the ExtraDataList you type either -1 to disattach or the number left of NiTextKeyExtraData (usually 2) to attach it to a node, Num Extra Data List will add/remove the number of entries in ExtraDataList).
3b. If there is no NiTextKeyExtraData already then add it to the Root_NoteTrack node (left window, right click -> attach extra data -> NiTextKeyExtraData).
4. Make sure that NiTextKeyExtraData has the value 'damage' and is set to the time you want the power to work at (bottom window Text Keys).
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 04:19:51 PM by mac402 »

Offline Amazo Version 2.2

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2015, 04:58:24 PM »
Quote
4. Make sure that NiTextKeyExtraData has the value 'damage' and is set to the time you want the power to work at (bottom window Text Keys).

this is way above my understanding of fxing, but i'm curious as to how you decided what the time should be set at. also, are there other values besides "damage"?
For anyone, and everyone, who has ever done anything to improve the FF/FFvs3R gaming experience, I want to say thank you. Life is so short, and you have all brought me so much joy. I hope that one day, I am somehow able to return the kindness and generosity that all of you have shown.

Offline mac402

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2015, 05:21:17 PM »
Quote
4. Make sure that NiTextKeyExtraData has the value 'damage' and is set to the time you want the power to work at (bottom window Text Keys).

this is way above my understanding of fxing, but i'm curious as to how you decided what the time should be set at. also, are there other values besides "damage"?

Text keys have 2 entries called time and value. Usually everything is already set but sometimes there can be value 'core_start' instead of 'damage' so you should change it to 'damage' (I wasn't experimenting much with this tbh, I just sticked with what worked for me). The time you just pick what suits you i.e. if you want the damage to be dealt the moment the animation starts you set it to 0. If you want to delay it or sync it with a part of the animation the FX plays you enter the time in seconds (i.e. 2.3). If the FX already had a NiTextKeyExtraData it has the time set.

Offline Cyber Burn

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2015, 06:36:22 PM »
This is really cool Mac, thank you for sharing this information.  :D

Offline mac402

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2015, 09:06:10 PM »
This is really cool Mac, thank you for sharing this information.  :D

Thanks Cyber Burn. I'm really flattered to be commended on the subject of fx making by a legendary fx'er :) .

Offline Amazo Version 2.2

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2015, 09:29:49 PM »
This is really cool Mac, thank you for sharing this information.  :D

Thanks Cyber Burn. I'm really flattered to be commended on the subject of fx making by a legendary fx'er :) .

dude, hit delete, hit delete! his ego is going blow up!




seriously, i would really dig seeing what you have been making mac402. i'm hoping to actually preview my first real fx attempts soon, so it would be sweet to see someone else do the same.
For anyone, and everyone, who has ever done anything to improve the FF/FFvs3R gaming experience, I want to say thank you. Life is so short, and you have all brought me so much joy. I hope that one day, I am somehow able to return the kindness and generosity that all of you have shown.

Offline Cyber Burn

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2015, 12:34:50 AM »
This is really cool Mac, thank you for sharing this information.  :D

Thanks Cyber Burn. I'm really flattered to be commended on the subject of fx making by a legendary fx'er :) .

You give me far more credit than I deserve, I'm a "C Lister" at best, but I am stubborn and I keep trying until I get something close to the effect that I want. Plus, I ask a LOT of questions, and I am very fortunate that guys like Hoss, WindBlown, Alex, and Prem (And way too many more for me to list), are always willing to give advice when I need it.

This is really cool Mac, thank you for sharing this information.  :D

Thanks Cyber Burn. I'm really flattered to be commended on the subject of fx making by a legendary fx'er :) .

dude, hit delete, hit delete! his ego is going blow up!




seriously, i would really dig seeing what you have been making mac402. i'm hoping to actually preview my first real fx attempts soon, so it would be sweet to see someone else do the same.

I know we've talked back and forth about some of the ideas you've had, so I'm really looking forward to seeing what you've done with them.

Mac, I'd be interested in seeing what you have as well.


Offline mac402

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2015, 12:35:35 PM »
As for me guys i'm actually pretty low on original content. I did some conversions from mesh parts to static fxs to simulate something along the lines of attachable weapons.

PREVIEW

Offline Cyber Burn

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2015, 01:03:46 PM »
That is really pretty cool Mac. I had actually thought about importing various objects to use in FFvt3R (Mostly Mario related stuff). Unfortunately, time had run out before School started, and I didn't have enough time.

I think my favorite thing here was the use of Owlman's Helmet. I know nothing about scripting/coding, but would it be possible to use what you're doing, using multiple Helmets, and then have each Helmet give the Character a different power or ability?

Is that Ink's "TM_Batman_Final" Mesh? Is it specifically needed for what you previewed, or would any Mesh be able to work?
 

Offline mac402

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2015, 02:59:17 PM »
There is an attribute called Weapon Master for this that is already scripted in FFX along with examples. You customise it in the files ffxcustom.py and ffxextras.py (and need FFEdit of course). And yes, it is absolutely possible to have multiple helmets, though you can wear 1 weapon at a time. You do not need a specific mesh, but you have to bear in mind that every character can use a weapon so for it to be displayed nicely on all characters you should specify a node that is common for a mesh (in your case Bip01 Head would be cool) and an animation name for the power that is commonly used (like ranged etc.).

Offline Amazo Version 2.2

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2015, 10:01:57 PM »
As for me guys i'm actually pretty low on original content. I did some conversions from mesh parts to static fxs to simulate something along the lines of attachable weapons.

PREVIEW

seriously sweet! off topic tho, what map is that? i don't think i have that one.
For anyone, and everyone, who has ever done anything to improve the FF/FFvs3R gaming experience, I want to say thank you. Life is so short, and you have all brought me so much joy. I hope that one day, I am somehow able to return the kindness and generosity that all of you have shown.

Offline mac402

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2015, 10:55:09 PM »
Thanks! The map is Batcave by Gengoro (from Goggles Pizanno mappack), heavily modified by me.

Offline spydermann93

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2015, 12:04:49 AM »
That is really cool, mac!

How does your modification handle a character holding multiple items?

Offline mac402

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2015, 12:10:36 PM »
Thanks! He can't hold multiple items, only one at a time. You have to drop one to equip the other. With the weapon master attribute a character can "carry" up to 3 items on himself and "draw/sheath" one item at a time when need be.

Offline Amazo Version 2.2

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2015, 02:36:25 PM »
As for me guys i'm actually pretty low on original content. I did some conversions from mesh parts to static fxs to simulate something along the lines of attachable weapons.

this sounds like it could be rreally helpful for future use, do you happen to have instructions on how you did that?
For anyone, and everyone, who has ever done anything to improve the FF/FFvs3R gaming experience, I want to say thank you. Life is so short, and you have all brought me so much joy. I hope that one day, I am somehow able to return the kindness and generosity that all of you have shown.

Offline mac402

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2015, 09:05:42 PM »
Well it may differ a little depending on the mesh but roughly it goes like this:
1. Find the part of the character mesh that you wish to use and decide on the attachment node. It is easiest if it is the node that this part is attached to in the original mesh.
2. Delete the bounding box of the mesh or it will not display as an effect.
3. Hide everything except the parts you want. Don't delete anything yet.
4. Now you have to put this part you wish to use in the middle of the axes in Nifscope. You can either move it into the sceneroot or leave it be as it is with the nodes intact. Like I said it depends. If you use multiple parts then it is easier to leave them attached to the nodes as they are for later adjustments.
5. Now check for all the textures required to display it and copy the necessary textures do mod\Art\library\fx\_textures. You can change their names in nifscope to something less generic. I advise on using dds format.
6. Now all there is left to do is to check your results in the games and adjust the mesh in the Nifscope until you have the desired result.
7. If everything is done you can make a backup of your work and try to delete the unnecessary parts to make the nif file smaller. Backup is required since deleting something can lead to crashes etc.

Hope that helps.

Offline detourne_me

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2015, 03:06:41 PM »
Wow! Mac!
I love your Batmod.
I had thought about using weapon master the same way as you but never to that extent for Batman before.  Is it possible to arm multiple things at once?
I'm really impressed man!

Offline mac402

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2015, 10:45:48 PM »
Thank you for the kind words. It is not possible to do this, but since one weapon can be used to trigger multiple powers, I think it could be simulated without resorting to changing the main script.

Offline detourne_me

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Re: fx questions from a beginner
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2015, 04:13:57 AM »
It's pretty fantastic though.  I look forward to seeing whatever you've got coming up!