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Author Topic: blinking  (Read 4273 times)

Offline hmarrs

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blinking
« on: June 15, 2012, 04:58:36 AM »
How come no one has every thought of making a mesh that blinks?
 ;)It would add an amazing sense of realism.

Offline Vertex

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Re: blinking
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 07:51:21 AM »
for the same reason I made a mesh that smiled and people freaked the (bleep) out! rofl It totally ruined their one expression faces and honestly it's hard to paint on that classic scowl face so many are in love with on skins.... when the eyes ... blink :P
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Offline hmarrs

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Re: blinking
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 03:46:02 PM »
What where I want to see the mesh that smiles can you tell me where it is?Also forget everyone else they don't hold
The licensence on meshes.Let them have the scowl looking meshes I'm from the group that would like to see the meshes evolve.So how about it make one blink.
Also a while back you and I had spoke on you making a Hulk Vx male how about just tying it together.
Make a Vx Hulk mesh that blinks and smiles it would  be killer and would tie into the Avenger Hulk for sure.
What you say Vertex.  ^_^
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 03:51:04 PM by hmarrs »

Offline GogglesPizanno

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Re: blinking
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 04:01:14 PM »
Those little overly specific kinds of details (especially on faces) always seemed like a lot of work for little payoff, as most of the game when played has the characters either to small to see or from above where you cant see the faces. Its a nice little touch from a mesh perspective for looking at in CTool or for a creator to add a little custom flair to a mesh (like renegade used to add to his idle animations), but I just don't get the immersion of it as it's just soooo subtle and hard to see within the presentation of the game.

Offline Vertex

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Re: blinking
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 04:49:35 PM »
Those little overly specific kinds of details (especially on faces) always seemed like a lot of work for little payoff, as most of the game when played has the characters either to small to see or from above where you cant see the faces. Its a nice little touch from a mesh perspective for looking at in CTool or for a creator to add a little custom flair to a mesh (like renegade used to add to his idle animations), but I just don't get the immersion of it as it's just soooo subtle and hard to see within the presentation of the game.


And see that's where we're on opposite ends of the spectrum. I could almost care less if there even is a FF game when it comes to my meshes. I always made them for the ctool which would always make me nuts when I'd see someone skin a character on another mesh that was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay inferior. Most frustrating however was to put working mouth that I could animate expressions on.. to one level or another... only to see guy skin a open mouth teeth showing expression over the mouth that opens ... "when it's supposed to".

  My biggest prob is and always was, the sentiment of "good enough" and too much effort to be worth it. Between my repeated comp probs over the years and people telling me it's just not important enough to do what I do... is a big part of why I stopped releasing stuff.


P.S. Thanks to blackcasanova my pc is working again (up until recently I could only get online with my wife's windows 7 laptop that can't use old 3ds max)
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Offline hmarrs

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Re: blinking
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 06:32:41 PM »

Those little overly specific kinds of details (especially on faces) always seemed like a lot of work for little payoff, as most of the game when played has the characters either to small to see or from above where you cant see the faces. Its a nice little touch from a mesh perspective for looking at in CTool or for a creator to add a little custom flair to a mesh (like renegade used to add to his idle animations), but I just don't get the immersion of it as it's just soooo subtle and hard to see within the presentation of the game.
You think you don't notice thos things but you do subconciously.
I uploaded Windows 98 on a Virtual Machine and realized how garbage the graphic were but at the time I thought it was awesome
It's like watching a movie from way back that you thought had amazing Special effects but when you look at it now you realize how off it is.
Why because of advancements that were made that you only noticed subconciously until you conciouly looked back.Let's say you make a Mod titled Police versus Hulk.
In the game the Civilains are blinking everyone is Blinking the Police are yelling in Vx Mode.The Hulk smiles before doing a Thunder clap.
Now play it on and off for like a month.
Then play it again with the standrad meshes trust you you will notice the difference and how lifeless the game will appear. :thumbup:



« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 06:49:02 PM by hmarrs »

Offline Cyber Burn

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Re: blinking
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 06:37:12 PM »
For what it's worth Vertex, I more than appreciate the quality of both your "69" and your "VX" meshes. The CTools are like a big display case for superhero toys, and it's fun just to watch the animations and look at the details that all of the meshers and skinners and skopers have put into their work.

Offline hmarrs

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Re: blinking
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 06:42:24 PM »
And see that's where we're on opposite ends of the spectrum. I could almost care less if there even is a FF game when it comes to my meshes. I always made them for the ctool which would always make me nuts when I'd see someone skin a character on another mesh that was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay inferior. Most frustrating however was to put working mouth that I could animate expressions on.. to one level or another... only to see guy skin a open mouth teeth showing expression over the mouth that opens ... "when it's supposed to".

  My biggest prob is and always was, the sentiment of "good enough" and too much effort to be worth it. Between my repeated comp probs over the years and people telling me it's just not important enough to do what I do... is a big part of why I stopped releasing stuff.


P.S. Thanks to blackcasanova my pc is working again (up until recently I could only get online with my wife's windows 7 laptop that can't use old 3ds max)
Dude are you serious.
Your efforts and artwork are very important enough.
Listen I can remember the very first time I saw a VX mesh.That's saying alot when a person says I can remember when about somthing you did.
When I hit that button and that mesh put his foot down and yelled at me I almost fell off of the chair.
Dude we need you you and the many hands artistically involed are lifeline and the Blood of the game.
V if we do not keep uping the standard of the game and evolving the game is going to die.
Everything needs to evolve and improve.
The Game engine(I believe Bearded is working on it =In his somthing big)as of right now I can't get ffedit or the Game to play properly.
The  Game play needs to change as well to control play as well as RPG players.
I for one barely even play the game at all because RPG bores me.
Let's face it guys Irrational has pulled out and have sheved FF.
If this game is going to survive it is up to us we have to keep pusing the bar and evolving if not I give to game 2-5 years max.
V we need you and I for onr truly appriciate your work don't put your brush down.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 07:17:02 PM by hmarrs »

Offline Vertex

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Re: blinking
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 09:16:47 PM »
Dude thanks for the heartfelt response, I really appreciate it.

  Several meshers in my opinion were big innovators and movers in our community, I had always hoped to be one of them and in many ways I think that ended up being both my greatest strength and weakness. I could have kept things simple and made a LOT more meshes a LOT faster. I second guess myself so much when I make things... trying to make them what EVERYBODY wants and have everything everybody expects and asking friends and taking suggestions... When it comes to meshing I am and always was my own worst enemy.  I'm the guy who wanted to be a skinner and ended up being a mesher. The irony hasn't been lost on me how many skinners ended up trying to be meshers or hexxers.

  Like most peeps nowadays, I've got my share of problems, my family is struggling each month to pay the bills and feed ourselves with nothing left over for saving or emergency fund. My health has taken a huge downturn over the years... I have almost constant pain in my feet and legs now and have trouble walking or standing for extended periods because of that pain. I was helped locally by an agency that sent me free to a pediatrist and he said I must be diabetic and have neuropathy which makes my confused and scared a bit since he said the neuropathy is permanent and would mean I'm permanently screwed.

 I end up feeling guilty and a bit lost when I think to start meshing now... guilty because I am goofing off when I need to helping my family but then realizing I don't have a clue how to at this point. I also put so much pressure on myself ... that if I'm gonna do it, my meshes need to be so good... so awesome ... Like I said earlier I am my own worst enemy.

Anyhow I suppose I'm ranting about all this, not to seek sympathy or support ... but to explain how along with so many computer probs, my health and state of mind have been a major reason for why I haven't released anything in ages and why I don't jump on the wagon now. I'm trying to psyche myself up I suppose and this probably is how I'm doing that  :banghead: I've always been way too obsessive in many ways and I never seem to follow through on things because I was trained by my dad to believe I just am not capable of being worth it. bah  Geez listen to me go on, anyway I just figure you guys deserve a reason why I faded away... I literally haven't opened up max in ages, so scared of how rusty I must be and then there's that nagging need to make stuff perfect. 
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Offline GogglesPizanno

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Re: blinking
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2012, 09:52:21 PM »
Whoa, I was not trying to open such a can of worms, I was just expressing my particular point of view about how i use the meshes in the game, and as a result, I sometimes feel the requests can get a little overly complicated and specific for the limits of the game and how people use them.

The bottom line is that as a creator, you should create however you feel is important to you. If that means you work on one incredibly detailed mesh with 200 moving parts that takes you 4 years to complete, then that is what it should be. If it means releasing 25 variations of a boulder over a weekend... well rocks need love too. If it means you retire from modding to deal with other facets of life (as in reality most of us have done) that's fine too.

My initial reaction was one not of diminishing anyone's work, it was really a reaction to the request itself as being a bit overly-specific in the subtle details of what it was asking for and how much it would actually add to the game.

I think all of us still hanging around here appreciate those people that are still actively creating, no matter what their output or timetable is.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 09:55:09 PM by GogglesPizanno »

Offline Vertex

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Re: blinking
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2012, 10:28:46 PM »
whoa I certainly didn't take any offense to what you said dude  :D


I just feel the need to explain why I didn't release as much as I ever wanted to, and why I haven't in so long. It's certainly not for a lack of desire but a combination of health and money probs and my insecurities left over from my childhood. I really feel in many ways I let myself and the community down by not putting out more.
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Offline Cyber Burn

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Re: blinking
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2012, 10:35:15 PM »
You've put out plenty, don't second guess yourself there. Quality and quantity, I've always been a fan.

I've always said that I'm not an artist, which is true, but at one time I had wanted to be one. It was my parents consistantly shutting me down that made me quit when I was a teenager ( a looong time ago). I more than understand financial and health issues, being there myself, but an occasional release from me does at least boost my own ego a little bit. It inspires me to keep going in other aspects of my life as well.

Offline John Jr.

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Re: blinking
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2012, 11:06:08 PM »
As someone who is always facing health issues, I can relate, Vertex.
And about the meshes, well you ARE one of our all-time greats and I'm very grateful you made so many of my favorite heroes (the Legionnaires). I still remember how surprised I was when I saw your work: "Meshes that have facial expressions? Wow!"
I hope things get better.

Offline Blkcasanova247

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Re: blinking
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 04:37:45 AM »
Vert....I think I can say without a shadow of a doubt that your contributions to this community have been over and beyond amazing. The quality of the meshes you created when you were releasing work was impressive and I've always been totally flabbergasted with how you were able to put small things into your meshes and make them amazing...like moving fingers and that in-itself added to my enjoyment of the game. Truthfully I started hexxing/skoping because I was sick of "lobster handed" meshes, your awesome work inspired me. The vast majority of my "skopes" with a few exceptions were based on your meshes.

I think at this stage...since were dealing with a very old game the goal should be to put as much into it as possible...blinking eyes...toothy grins...twitching ears...whatever....creators should push the bounderies of what can be done for the game...then push a little more. FF is still a very unique property...there is no other RPG like it. Which is why we've all been hanging on for so long...they just don't make 'em like this.

On a personal note..I've been feeling the economic "pinch" in my own life and felt I needed to make some changes. One of those things was take the little free time  that I did have while not working over time at my regualr job and look for a second job; I felt that I had to sacrifice time devoted mostly for my art, writing and skoping. But recently it was my beautiful wife that reminded me that I need to get as much enjoyment out of my life as possible and be happy...no matter what. I was happy to lend a hand Vert...you're my bro...anything to help out. I also hoped that having the option of using your creativity in this avenue would be a small but beneficial thing for you....it's the little things sometimes.

Sorry for the thread jack hmarrs
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 04:26:32 PM by Blkcasanova247 »
I can't help it that I look so good baby! I'm just a love machine!

Offline hmarrs

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Re: blinking
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 03:39:52 PM »
No it's cool 'Nova and Piz I don't think anyone took offense we were just discussing the ligistics of the game.
Vertex you don't need to feel bad about opening up I for one would like to believe we are more then just gamers in this place.
I for one will be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
I don't usually put this out there but I will for those of you I might be of some service.
I am a Pastor I don't usually put that out there because I usually keep my personal life out of it and I don't want to impose my beliefs on other people who may not share the same faith.I respect other peoples personnel walk.
I just want to offer any insight and I will tell you this.
Not only do you need to mesh again you have to mesh again.Why?Because dude you need woke you time if I didn't come on here to take a break from the world and the stress I think I would go crazy.Yes I pray and read my Bible but sometimes I just need to be me.
I know that my family knows that and most off God know that.
I'm just being a kid and having some down time and revisiting some of my childhood dreams and hero's and such.
Like Nova said sometimes we feel guilty and the bills and such but you know they will still be there waiting when you return.
Maybe I said to much I hope you get the Nietzsche of what I am saying.

Offline cmdrkoenig67

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Re: blinking
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2012, 12:38:19 AM »
A mesh that smiled in certain (appropriate) animations would be great.  I also think the blinking would be great addition, but I agree with Goggles...Its a lot of work with little pay-off...A blinking mesh can be accomplished by Skoping the mesh to have animated textures, a few alternating skins of open and closed eyes, but that takes work and just adds to the size of the mesh.  Several skins for just blinking seems a bit silly, it would be different if its a mesh that's meant to have energy coursing across his skin or a character whose body alternates in color (then the blinking would be a great idea for adding to the skins).

The talking heads blink, smile, show anger, shock, etc...That's what they're meant for and that works for me in the case of most meshes.

However, I love your meshes Vertex...Their emoting during animations is a great addition to FF and FFvsTTR (I'm very sorry to hear about your health declining, V.  I hope you'll be feeling better soon)...As for letting the community down?  Bobby/Vertex, that is poppycock!  You've given this community so much (which we very much appreciate).  I don't feel you need to return to meshing, if you really don't have the desire to...but I myself, keep making content for F, because I enjoy making new things out of other things, experimenting, making things for the game nobody else has...I just get a lot of joy out of this game. 

I also know personally about that economic pinch (I decided to go back to school, after a lay off from my job of 6 years and my unemployment has almost run out).

My advice to Hmarrs, download NifSkope (unless you already have) and get a handle on how it works, have some fun with it, maybe you can Skope a mesh for yourself  that blinks?

Dana
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 12:58:59 AM by cmdrkoenig67 »

Offline Vertex

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Re: blinking
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2012, 12:40:55 PM »
A mesh that smiled in certain (appropriate) animations would be great.  I also think the blinking would be great addition, but I agree with Goggles...Its a lot of work with little pay-off...A blinking mesh can be accomplished by Skoping the mesh to have animated textures, a few alternating skins of open and closed eyes, but that takes work and just adds to the size of the mesh.  Several skins for just blinking seems a bit silly, it would be different if its a mesh that's meant to have energy coursing across his skin or a character whose body alternates in color (then the blinking would be a great idea for adding to the skins).

The talking heads blink, smile, show anger, shock, etc...That's what they're meant for and that works for me in the case of most meshes.

However, I love your meshes Vertex...Their emoting during animations is a great addition to FF and FFvsTTR (I'm very sorry to hear about your health declining, V.  I hope you'll be feeling better soon)...As for letting the community down?  Bobby/Vertex, that is poppycock!  You've given this community so much (which we very much appreciate).  I don't feel you need to return to meshing, if you really don't have the desire to...but I myself, keep making content for F, because I enjoy making new things out of other things, experimenting, making things for the game nobody else has...I just get a lot of joy out of this game. 

I also know personally about that economic pinch (I decided to go back to school, after a lay off from my job of 6 years and my unemployment has almost run out).

My advice to Hmarrs, download NifSkope (unless you already have) and get a handle on how it works, have some fun with it, maybe you can Skope a mesh for yourself  that blinks?

Dana

Now in this case you thought of blinking from a hexxer or skoper's angle. From my point of view... blinking is as simple as making some eyelids (tiny patch of skin, over each eye) that simply scales up and back down once or twice every 20 or 30 seconds... which would be like once or twice per animation at most... not that much to do honestly and add to mesh size? barely noticeable if at all.
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Offline hmarrs

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Re: blinking
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2012, 04:32:17 AM »
Cmd how would you do that in skope can you give me a quick Tutorial?

Offline Vertex

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Re: blinking
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2012, 04:43:29 AM »
I hope you're not asking me for a tutorial on how to use skope to do something... wouldn't have a clue. Only thing I know how to operate is 3ds max.
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Offline hmarrs

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Re: blinking
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2012, 04:53:25 PM »
No I was referring to the statement that cmdkeon was making above about Nifskope.
Hey Vertex which was the mesh you were referring to that you made that smiled?

Offline cmdrkoenig67

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Re: blinking
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2012, 05:02:13 PM »
There is a tutorial here, Hmarrs...A simple "animated textures" search brought it up...

http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=52821.msg716212#msg716212

These tutorials really should be collected and stickied in the Hex editing forum or something.

Dana
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 05:17:48 PM by cmdrkoenig67 »

Offline Vertex

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Re: blinking
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2012, 11:45:31 PM »
No I was referring to the statement that cmdkeon was making above about Nifskope.
Hey Vertex which was the mesh you were referring to that you made that smiled?

Actually I retooled all my meshes to be able to smile and previewed that option years ago. After I did that though, a couple friends of mine pointed out that add the extra bone to the body changed the physique enough to no longer be able to accept my animation sets that people used for my meshes. I was told that to release new meshes that wouldn't work with my existing keys was a bad move, so... I shelved those models and never released them.
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Offline Cyber Burn

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Re: blinking
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2012, 12:37:26 AM »
No I was referring to the statement that cmdkeon was making above about Nifskope.
Hey Vertex which was the mesh you were referring to that you made that smiled?

Actually I retooled all my meshes to be able to smile and previewed that option years ago. After I did that though, a couple friends of mine pointed out that add the extra bone to the body changed the physique enough to no longer be able to accept my animation sets that people used for my meshes. I was told that to release new meshes that wouldn't work with my existing keys was a bad move, so... I shelved those models and never released them.

That's a shame, I would have liked to see what else you had up your sleeve.

Offline GogglesPizanno

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Re: blinking
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2012, 01:13:29 AM »
No I was referring to the statement that cmdkeon was making above about Nifskope.
Hey Vertex which was the mesh you were referring to that you made that smiled?

Actually I retooled all my meshes to be able to smile and previewed that option years ago. After I did that though, a couple friends of mine pointed out that add the extra bone to the body changed the physique enough to no longer be able to accept my animation sets that people used for my meshes. I was told that to release new meshes that wouldn't work with my existing keys was a bad move, so... I shelved those models and never released them.

Nowadays I think if you released specialized meshes that included specialized keys, that wouldn't really be considered bad. Its not like there is a lack of mesh/key sets out there for people to use. These wold just be unique meshes like Taskmaster's or Jik's Alien or even some of Renegades more creative ones. also nowadays there are skopers out there that have become quite good at skoping meshes/keys to work with things they weren't designed for. If you had an interest in doing meshes like that, and the only thing holding you back was the perceived "uncoolness" of days past, I don't think its really an issue now.

There definately seems to be interest in them (my oblivious gameplay methods notwithstanding)  :)

Offline hmarrs

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Re: blinking
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2012, 05:58:59 AM »
There is a tutorial here, Hmarrs...A simple "animated textures" search brought it up...

http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=52821.msg716212#msg716212

These tutorials really should be collected and stickied in the Hex editing forum or something.

Dana
Thanks bud.

Offline hmarrs

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Re: blinking
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2012, 06:02:28 AM »
How bout it V can we see what's on the shelf?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 06:22:43 AM by hmarrs »

Offline Vertex

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Re: blinking
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2012, 06:00:01 PM »
Honestly I'm still looking through my HD... it's been a while since I could even see around my files properly after the video card died. After I get a good sense of what is what, I'll see what I can do.
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Offline hmarrs

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Re: blinking
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2012, 07:57:30 AM »
No I was referring to the statement that cmdkeon was making above about Nifskope.
Hey Vertex which was the mesh you were referring to that you made that smiled?

Actually I retooled all my meshes to be able to smile and previewed that option years ago. After I did that though, a couple friends of mine pointed out that add the extra bone to the body changed the physique enough to no longer be able to accept my animation sets that people used for my meshes. I was told that to release new meshes that wouldn't work with my existing keys was a bad move, so... I shelved those models and never released them.
CMD please forgive me but I'm not very good.I tried and followed the Tutorial and never got anywhere.
I was wondering if you could point me to a mesh that may have an animated mesh already and then I can tweak it or learn from one that already has one.

Offline cmdrkoenig67

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Re: blinking
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 04:52:04 AM »
The Chemo mesh Skoped by Tap43 at http://ffcenter.net/champions/ has animated textures.

Dana

Offline hmarrs

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Re: blinking
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2012, 07:53:39 PM »
Thnx if you can think of any others let me know...Please.