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Author Topic: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action  (Read 13418 times)

Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2021, 07:45:16 PM »
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Good news is that the whole 2003 show is up on CBS All Access. If anyone uses that.

 :o

Thor, do you want to field this one?

YEEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!

Wait, wait, wait.....Micheal Pena from Ant-Man, YOU wanna field this one?

Back it up, baaaack it up, all you gotta do is just baaaack it up.

So after doing some research....CBS All-Access is on Canada. Good to know. I guess I have to take a few things back.

Two questions:

1) Is Turtles Forever on there? I went on the site, and it didn't come up on the search bar when I typed it in, and it won't let me look at the episode guide without signing up.

2) Is it the director's cut? By which I mean, do they, include the pivotal scenes where

Spoiler: ShowHide
Karai is conflicted about helping Shredder?


Oh, look it's available to rent on Amazon Prime U.S. Not ideal, but it's an option.

FW Splinter: Please, take this moment to nourish your body and soul, as you prepare for the challenge ahead of you.

2003 Leo to FW Splinter: Thank you...Master. My brothers and I have found this dimension to be...welll.....disorienting. But being here....seeing you....feels right.

FW Splinter: To me, also, Leonardo. You four are welcome here....always.

2003 Rapheal: That's kinda what OUR Master Splinter said....to us....about them.

Yeah, real mean-spirited.

[...] Huh. Rewatching through the 2003 Shredder related content....I think the New York guys screwed up. Scottie Ray should have been Megatron in Cyberverse, not Marc Thompson. Marc Thompson was brilliant as Sky-Byte though.

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IIRC GOG/CD Project Red had to write most of the Blade Runner code on their own.

I bought my copy. During a sale of course. Though it might actually be 2049 by the time I get to it.

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Action cartoons are not really a thing anymore,it seems.
You know what, that's not quite fair. Young Justice Outsiders, whatever else I may feel about it, is a serious minded action cartoon. So was S7 of Clone Wars, Netflix War for Cybertron sure as shell as. Marvel's Spider-Man and Transformers: Cyberverse are close enough. So's Steven Universe. It's not my thing, but it's telling a serious narrative, and it's still on, as I understand it. Bravest Warriors of all things got pretty darn epic as it went.

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One episode of not-Mad Max would be bearable,but a whole tv-movie/3 episodes? That's just a waste of everyone time.

Everything in S5 straight-up shouldn't have happened except Usagi and Hothead.

EIGHT. SEASONS. AND. A. MOVIE. And it ended on a high note.

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On the original cartoon,any episode with Casey was pretty damn hilarious. When he goes undercover at a company,while still wearing the mask ofc.

2003 did it better.

*Casey walks into TCRI building with a toaster as a distraction* You sold me a defective toaster!

Totally-Not-A-Utrom: TCRI doesn't sell toasters, sir.

Casey: Then what do you call this?

Totally-Not-A-Utrom: That says "RITC" IN CRAYON, SIR.  :thumbup:

Casey: Give me liberty or give me death! ATTICA! ATTICA!

I have an theory that people who misremember the FW cartoon are conflating it with the classic Konami beat em up games, with their minimal scripts and incredibly challenging boss fights, especially against Krang and Shredder at the end, with Shredder turning into Super Shredder.

Also I had an ENORMOUS post about James Rolfe's (aka Angry Video Game Nerd) 59-and-a-half minute of the show proving it was nothing but a comedy, but the board, of course, ate it.

Know that the entire 22:51-25:12 section is James doing NOTHING but giving examples of the show breaking the fourth wall.

James: They mention the music, the dialogue. It never stops. There's no fourth wall to be BROKEN. The wall is long gone.

So, yeah, there's a song for those who think Turtles Forever exaggerated the comedic nature of the Fred Wolfe show.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 12:31:33 PM by Silver Shocker »

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2021, 08:50:58 PM »
Thats why I said that maybe if it does well on CBS AA ,Nick might do a crossover or something. But thats a looooong shot. Imagine if we get that second season of Fast Forward now... 🙂
Well YJ and CW were revivals/continuations. Last TF cartoon I watched was RiD and that shared a lot of problems with Tmnt 2012 and USM. And had several of its own. But that was also more more focused on one-offs and trying to be funny. And I never really got how was it connected to Prime. Probably because I never got all that far.

And I just noticed that scene with Casey might be a Naked Gun reference.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2021, 09:12:01 PM »
Thats why I said that maybe if it does well on CBS AA ,Nick might do a crossover or something. But thats a looooong shot. Imagine if we get that second season of Fast Forward now... 🙂
Well YJ and CW were revivals/continuations. Last TF cartoon I watched was RiD and that shared a lot of problems with Tmnt 2012 and USM. And had several of its own. But that was also more more focused on one-offs and trying to be funny. And I never really got how was it connected to Prime. Probably because I never got all that far.

And I just noticed that scene with Casey might be a Naked Gun reference.

Considering all the references in the TMNT 1987 (again, Rolfe's review covers a bunch - he's a film buff, and so were the writers of that show), would not be surprised. Unless you meant 2003.

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Last TF cartoon I watched was RiD and that shared a lot of problems with Tmnt 2012 and USM. And had several of its own. But that was also more more focused on one-offs and trying to be funny. And I never really got how was it connected to Prime. Probably because I never got all that far.

Did you get to Ratchet, Bulkhead, Starscream and Soundwave? It does bring in a little itty-bitty bit of Prime as it goes, and the finale is....points for effort, and Harry Lennix was pretty decent as Cyclonus, but it was definitely too little too late.

I've only seen two shows where the tie-in comic was actually BETTER than the show it was based on. One was TF RID 2015. The other was the Jodie Whittiker run of Doctor Who.

A 6 issue comic run of TF RID 2015, and they nailed the art style, humor and brought in everyone from Team Prime, + Predaking, resulting in a scene that 100% should have been in the show.....Strongarm fangirling over Arcee.

If nothing else though, they nailed the tv debut of Windblade.

Anyway, I recommend Cyberverse. If you can make it through S1, and stomach some of its eccentric humor. It's epic as hell. See my long posts of me gushing about it over on the Netflix Transformers: War for Cybertron thread, including me giving the Clone Wars-style "Cheat Sheet" for what episodes YOU HAVE to watch.

Anyway, rewatching through parts of Turtles Forever. Honesty is the best policy, Benton. Slight exaggeration, not "cranked the silliness of the FW Turtles up to 11 and then broke off the knob.", but I'll nice and generous and say a 6 out of 10. They're more manic and hyper and disruptive. But that doesn't mean they got serious in the 1987, because they really, really did not.

Back to Rise, even though the finale was.....pretty good, Rise was the TMNT that made me NEVER want them to make more again unless they do a straight-up revival of TMNT 2003, another crossover, or one directly based on the IDW. Or another TMNT/Batman (DO THE ANIMATED ONE!!!) or TMNT/Power Rangers. Just throwing in a well executed Jennika (could definitely see Zelda Williams voicing her) or a much better executed Venus could really add something to the proceedings.

But we got Netflix movie of Rise where they fight the Kraang, so if nothing else......it's probably going to look gorgeous. and probably have killer action
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 09:14:15 PM by Silver Shocker »

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2021, 09:47:00 PM »
The toster scene in 2003 version. Thou,I guess yelling "Attica" isnt really a reference.

I forgot how far I got with RiD. I think I saw the Windblade episode. Did they ever explain how Grimlock is a Decepticon here? Is it a different Grimlock? With this being the same universe as Cybertron games?
I will do some research on War for Cybertron,so I might get around to that.

While I doubt that a revival of 2003 series will ever happen,barring a miracle of it becoming the #1 show on CBS AA (actually,their flagship shows are STD and Twilight Zone reboot,so it could happen), it would be fun to see that threeway Shredder war( Shredders war?  War of the Shredders?) or what happened to Evil Turtles. Well I think I used up all the jokes about CBS streaming platform.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2021, 10:56:53 PM »
The toster scene in 2003 version. Thou,I guess yelling "Attica" isnt really a reference.

It's a reference to the movie "Dog Day Afternoon".

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Did they ever explain how Grimlock is a Decepticon here? Is it a different Grimlock? With this being the same universe as Cybertron games?
I will do some research on War for Cybertron,so I might get around to that.

Different character. Happens a lot in TF of course, but TF writer Mairghread Scott said it's different Grimlock.

Also different canon. Aligned isn't one canon. It's a continuity family. Hasbro may have claimed it was at one point, but it become clear over time that they weren't the same. Same thing as when Hasbro claimed Primus, the Fallen and Sideways are the same character in every continuity.

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While I doubt that a revival of 2003 series will ever happen,barring a miracle of it becoming the #1 show on CBS AA (actually,their flagship shows are STD and Twilight Zone reboot,so it could happen),

Stranger Things, mah man, stranger things. No, not the Netflix series, I'm saying stranger things have happen. Streets Sharks on DVD.

As for STD and Twilight Zone reboot, new, exclusive content is a killer app. And I know this because I just finished watching Wandavision while I was writing this.

I did in fact watch Discovery Season 3 and it was not terribly good. You're mostly just waiting for the cat's 2 minute cameo every two or three episodes.

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it would be fun to see that threeway Shredder war( Shredders war?  War of the Shredders?)

What if I told you that got covered in a mobile game of all things?

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or what happened to Evil Turtles.


Oh, yeah. "DNA Is Thicker than Water" was another pretty good episode of Fast Forward. Doesn't connect to the original run, so skippable, but still pretty good.

Did you know that the ghost of Darius AND 4 ghosts that took the form of the Dark Turtles were the villains of TMNT/GB 2?

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Well I think I used up all the jokes about CBS streaming platform.

I found out that they got my favorite show on there, and Canada actually gets the service, so I don't feel like being harsh to them anymore.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 01:00:47 AM by Silver Shocker »

Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #95 on: February 06, 2021, 12:10:54 AM »
Putting aside bitterness for how it treated the super serious FW show... [/i]
(emphasis added)

It was all stuff that was based on their portrayal, but it was definitely exaggerated for effect.  I didn't care for the movie because of that, as it felt less like loving homage and more like mean-spirited mockery.

When did I say that the FW cartoon wasn't wacky and silly?  Of course it was, and I love it for its exuberant madness.  It's a ton of fun.  As I said, my reaction was about degree and attitude in the movie.  Of course the FW show wasn't serious, but TF treated it just as a punching bag, with no appreciation that I could see.  It sounds like you didn't like the original cartoon, so I can't imagine you'd be a good judge of this particular question, if that's the case.

I remember the cartoon well, having rewatched it in the last few years.  And I have a little experience with the material....:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/turtles-fight-with-honor/

You're making a ton of assumptions, SS.  My disliking TF has nothing to do with my opinion of the 2003 series.  I have nothing against that show and enjoyed many parts of it.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 01:36:34 AM by BentonGrey »
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #96 on: February 06, 2021, 03:19:04 AM »
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(emphasis added)

A little sarcasm on my part, I'll grant.

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but TF treated it just as a punching bag, with no appreciation that I could see.

As I've made clear already (and I concede, I certainly could have been more tact about it), I don't agree. I already posted the dialogue for the scene with Splinter.

Rewatching certain parts of TF, I noticed one of the things that may have contributed to this sense that it didn't respect the 89 TMNT, and perhaps you'd agree with me here.

The music.

Gone were the rad 80's synthesizers that 89 Mikey dubbed "excellent" and music used for the 89 TMNT is a kind of "Looney Tones" kind of thing that doesn't really fit the music from the 2003 or the music from the 1989 and is trying to empathize how bumbling the 89 TMNT are. If the music used for their scenes sounded more the like the music from that show, I think it might have helped.

Back to appreciation.

The concept artists and animators for the flick went to great lengths to recreate the look of 89 TMNT, and crowd shots are full of character designs taken straight from the original, in lavish modern graphics.
And while there was much mumbling about the lack of returning voice actors, the voice actors we did get for these characters put in an effort to try to make these characters sound right. It never felt like they were doing them a disservice to me.

The movie ends the final, most high stakes battle with Ch'rell with him being just barely defeated by Bebop and Rocksteady.

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It sounds like you didn't like the original cartoon, so I can't imagine you'd be a good judge of this particular question, if that's the case.

An incorrect assumption on your part. I adored the original when I was a kid. I was just about the right age. I probably liked it more than The Real Ghostbusters, and as a little youngling I insisted on adding "Peter" to my full name.

I saw the movies in the theatres, I had the toys, I'm reasonably sure I had the breakfast cereal and the Kraft Dinner and the canned pasta. I once went to a school book fair and bought a drug PSA book because it starred the Ninja Turtles. I played the video games. I got the infamous 1st game as a Christmas present from my aunt, and because the number of Nintendo Entertainment System games I owned was very small, I played it so much that I got to the Technodrome multiple times and that I don't know anyone who could get through that infamous dam level easier than me. It's really not that hard if you practice. Because of this, I greatly appreciated Wayforward's 2012 TMNT tie-in game "Danger of the Ooze" because it was functionally a remake of that game done much better.

I remember when "Planet of the Turtleoids" came out, a multi-part tv movie event that I recorded off the tv and watched at least half a dozen times. At the time I loved it because it had a whole planet of turtles, the Technodrome Mk 2, Shredder and Krang causing trouble while the TMNT were off planet, making them seem more dangerous, and because the storyarc featured the debuts of Tatoo, Groundchuck, Dirt Bag, and Chrome Dome, and not only did I have all three of the latter characters' toys, I would rent and play TMNT 3: The Manhatten Project. I'm with Nostalgia Critic on this one - it's my favorite of the classic beat-em-ups, and because it's an NES exclusive, it's never once been re-released, and I'd really like to see the day that it is. Groundchuck and Dirt were bosses in that game and were quite cool in them. That the fights in PotT were fairy short and not too elaborate, as a kid I thought it was cool.

So nostalgic was that show for me that the casting of Rob as Donnie in the 2012 sounded horribly, horribly wrong the first time I heard it, and I had to get used to it, and it's a good thing I was able to, because Donnie was best Turtle in that show.

If I really dislike the 89 iteration, would I really consider spending eighty dollars to get an arcade perfect port of Turtles in Time? Especially for the Gamecube, a system that had quite possibly the worst controller of any major console? Would I really be gushing about how epic Bebop and Rocksteady are in the IDW comic book, without sacrificing any of their fun, boisterous personality? So well did the 89 cartoon set the standard for the TMNT's iconic personalities (which the Mirage comics did not have) that every single iteration since, including the one directly using the comic lore as its base, carried that over. Every iteration of TMNT since, no matter epic, serious, or dark it may be, always made sure to bring the fun and silly. The failure of the Netflix Transformers: War for Cybertron to capitalize on that was, as we've discussed many times (and I imagine more in the future) by far its greatest folly (well, I can't speak for you - again, I predict you're going to hate what they do with Optimus in Chapter Two...)

Would I really get so much amusement every time Tokka or Razor or Tatsu pop up in a different iteration? or appreciate the very 89-inspired content in the TMNT/Power Rangers comic?

I stopped watching the original show during the "Red Skies" seasons, as I had gotten older and lost interest in it, and after that the franchise dyed down, and I largely didn't even think of about it until it was mentioned in a nostalgic context in an episode of Malcolm in the Middle.

When I became a fan of the 2003, and read about it online, to a degree, I felt like we'd all been hornswoggled, and the internet fans drew battle lines. Thus I had to defend the 2003, which I'm apparently still doing to this day.

So I guess I jumped the gun and assumed you didn't like the show specifically because of how TF handled the 89, lumping you in with those people. Sorry, that's on me.

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My disliking TF has nothing to do with my opinion of the 2003 series.

I see "TF" and my mind goes to "Transformers". Maybe I'm more of a TF fan than a TMNT fan these days. Then again, those last few Turtles shows have been a bit of a mixed bag.

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I have nothing against that show and enjoyed many parts of it

Glad to hear it.

Could Turtles Forever have taken out all the moments of the 89 TMNT being bumbling and hyperactive? Sure, but you have to replace that with something and the extensive fourth wall breaking gags I've already brought up would be extremely jarring in a 2003 TMNT movie, since, as far as I can recall, the series doesn't continue such a gag even once.

If you have a suggestion as what you think the bumbling nature of their portrayal in TF should have been replaced with, I'm curious to hear it, because I'm drawing a blank. The whole point of a crossover movie like this, in addition to being the grand finale to the 2003, is to mine humor out of and empathize how these characters differ, and they already display their differing catch phrases.

I just remembered another Fast Forward episode worth watching that connects to the original run: "Timing is Everything" which featured them time travelling back to the Turtles' first fight with the Shredder.

Now, I've already gave me thoughts on the matter, but what would you all like to see from the next TMNT cartoon, since there will no doubt be a new one before too long?

Another idea I like, is since I'm getting a bit tired of tv reboots every few years, and they're doing a Netflix Rise movie in addition to having recently done a Batman vs TMNT movie, would be do an animated movie every year or two instead. Might be a nice change of pace, keep things fresh, not hang on any one iteration for too long and you might be able to make everyone (or most everyone) happy by giving them a chance for their version of TMNT to shine.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 12:56:34 PM by Silver Shocker »

Offline Nyte Dragon

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #97 on: February 06, 2021, 04:25:02 AM »
\Another idea I like, is since I'm getting a bit tired of tv reboots every few years, and they're doing a Netflix Rise movie in addition to having recently done a Batman vs TMNT movie, would be do an animated movie every year or two instead. Might be a nice change of pace, keep things fresh, not hang on any one iteration for too long and you might be able to make everyone (or most everyone) happy by giving them a chance for their version of TMNT to shine.

 So basically, something like how DC does with their movies? Which, in all honesty, wouldn't be a bad idea. You could have one based on the original comic, one based on the first gen toon after, maybe one based on one of the toyline spin-offs (like cave turtles or some such that they did.)
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #98 on: February 06, 2021, 05:20:55 AM »
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So basically, something like how DC does with their movies?

Exactly! Between the Batman/TMNT crossover and DC having movies that are continuing either cartoons or earlier movie plots, it feels like somewhere TMNT could thrive in a way they haven't before.

Maybe an anthology, like Gotham Knights or Animatrix or GL Emerald Knights?

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #99 on: February 06, 2021, 08:25:02 AM »
Yeah,we a saw a lot of revivals that I never would have expected. I might even start hoping for Half Life 2 episode 3 at this point. 🙂
Red Skies talk reminds me...with so many mutants in IDW universe,I hope they do H.A.V.O.C at some point.
The war between Tengu-Shredder,Cyber-Shredder and Shredder happened in a mobile game?

Also, I play TMNT Legends on and off,and again- no 2003 characters in the game. And we have Nick,movie,original cartoon and Mirage versions. Well,Mirage turtles only. I assume its some rights issue again.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #100 on: February 06, 2021, 10:28:48 AM »
The war between Tengu-Shredder,Cyber-Shredder and Shredder happened in a mobile game?

Well, no, not really. I at one point thought that was the case, but among closer inspection, that is not the case. There's a 2009 mobile game called "The Shredder Reborn" about the Tengu Shredder being resurrected and the TMNT having to beat him in it, and the other two don't fight him, so I guess it doesn't count. Oh well.

I think I remember TMNT Legends. Even without the 2003 stuff in there, it still looks neat.

Offline Nyte Dragon

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #101 on: February 06, 2021, 05:32:02 PM »

Maybe an anthology, like Gotham Knights[/u] or Animatrix or GL Emerald Knights?

[Michael Scott mode activate]  NO! NO! GOD NO![/Michael Scott]

 Nothing like Gotham Knights! When I said in a previous thread I had seen worse art styles in other movies.... GK was one. Some of it was okay, but *gah* I just didn't like it. Animatrix was the same way, but IIRC only one of those I really didn't the style. (By same way, I mean different styles for each story.)

 I wouldn't have anything against the anthology if the styles varied to match the era it was in. (Like Turtles Forever did) And they could pick up another DC movie trick, and do a DC showcase style short (or would it be shellcase?) based on some of the lesser known charcters. A Mondo Gecko or Fugitoid short? Yes please!
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #102 on: February 07, 2021, 04:56:27 AM »
LOL, look S'all good, Man. All I meant was an anthology. I didn't mean the art style or execution had to be anything like that.

Look I get it, not everyone like that art style, but I didn't mean Turtles had to do it like that.

You can do it like Batman: Brave in the Bold. In addition coming back years later as a really quite good Scooby-Doo team up movie that I gushed about on here a few years ago, you also had these episodes that would mix in little mini espisodes for a bit and one them was a 70's-80's style Scooby Doo team up with writing and a voice cast to match (which is not what Gotham Knights did; that was more like they wrote and cast and acted it like an usual movie) and they did Bat-Manga complete with the infamous Lord Death Man.

So yeah, like TMNT anthology movie. You could do, say, like the micro series and have a little bit of Leo, Mikey, Raph (have Raph hanging out with Casey, like you do) Shredder, Karai, Bebop and Rocksteady, Stockman, Krang/the Kraang, it all pretty much writes itself. And by plugging in all these different elements like DC and Marvel do with some of their stuff (not to mention The Mandalorian), you can try to increase the number of people who opt in.


Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #103 on: February 10, 2021, 08:30:22 PM »
Okay,to add try and summarize the 4Kids vs Nick in one word...payoff. In 2003 version,EVERYTHING had a payoff (at least in the first 5 seasons). Recurring villain Nano becomes a Vision-like superhero,they explain what happened with uncle Augie,Donnie remembers to cure the mutants from S1 which ties into the Atlantis myth arc...even minor things like that have a payoff.

Nick version just gives up on plots. Donnie finding a cure for mutation? You think he would offer it to Splinter,but nah,they fumble around with it and then its never mentioned again. The weird love triangle between Donnie,April and Casey? The show gives up on it around season 4. Oh yeah,Karai being Splinters daughter? It takes him 10 episodes to admit that to the turtles,and a few more for Karai to learn that. And then she gets mutated into a snake and is evil again. Then gets better, starts her own clan...and disappears.
Splinter dies...but then its undid by time travel...and then he dies anyway. And it's not that sad the second time.
Mutagen Man is probably still on the loose.
The whole thing functions on a status quo,which gets restored at the end of the episode. And nothing here pays off or even changes that much. In season 5,the turtles are pretty much the same as they were in s1,just minus Splinter.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #104 on: February 11, 2021, 12:57:28 AM »
Yup. Pretty much.
Mutagen Man was especially disappointing. Especially since the 2003, as you said, covered their tracks on that many times over.

Or you look at the Justice Force itself (Nano joined the team, and Mikey's alter-ego Turtle Titan genuinely earned his way onto the team in a reserve member). Every single member of that team is someone we met previously in the show. It was like the finale of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

To give another example, I know many rolled their eyes at Speedball becoming Penance during and after Civil War, but one thing I appreciated is in the Penance mini Paul Jenkins took the opportunity to resolve a plot from years ago and had Spidey help out Mendal Stromm, aka the Robot Master. Sure it happened offscreen, but we were told it happened at some point in the past, indicating he didn't drag his feet too much on that. More of that please.

Here's another one that bothered the heck out of me. When they introduced Falco, the episode involved Donnie having to learn to follow Mikey's example of learning to "fight without thinking", which he does in that episode - and as far as I remember, it never comes up again. I remember circa early S1 someone said "this show has been on a roll with character development" and I said back then - that's not character development. Character development is retained - as in they're a different person longterm compared to how they started. Like Karai.

Compare that to Mikey in the 2003. Yeah, he's an overzealous doofus - but as Donnie said when he managed to beat the Atlantean guy, "You really stepped up". In most of the superhero-themed episodes, silly as they are, he uses his skills and his knowledge base to his advantage, and earns the respect of his superhero peers, to the point that even as the other turtles were mocking him, he earned a place on the Justice Force (albeit as a reserve member) actually inspired someone in the future in Fast Forward to become the new Turtle Titan. And in the Battle Nexus rematch episode, Mikey's B.S. about his accidental win resulted in him having to humble himself and ask Leo for help, and due to where Leo's head was at the time, he went ahead and helped him instead of being a jerk about it like Raph and Donnie were. It was a really good moment for Mikey and Leo.

And in the IDW, Mikey's love of manga and such resulted in him having a natural talent for learning Japanese lore and he was revealed to have the most natural talent for learning spiritual abilities. The 2012 version had none of that.

Now, I recently rewatched the 2003 shorts on Youtube, and while it was fun to revisit that iteration for the nostalgia and the voices and music and art style, the writing on those is terrible - every single one of them is about the TMNT (and in one case Splinter - which was especially bad) being complete abusive jerks to each other. It's like the writers for about 60% or so of Rise looked at those shorts and went "Yes, THAT'S what the show needs to be like"

On the plus side, if they want to do a revival of the 2012 with the returning cast and actually do some interesting, rewarding plots, that would be appreciated. I mean, I'm actually looking forward to the Netflix movie of Rise because they're doing the Kraang and most of that show was really bad IMO.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 03:19:47 PM by Silver Shocker »

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #105 on: February 11, 2021, 05:12:22 PM »
Yeah,thing felt earned in the 4Kids version. Each time they fight Shredder,they do a bit better. And even when they do take him down,they barely survive. Nick turtles...each time they encounter an enemy,they struggle the same like the first time. And when they do go up against Shredder, it's Splinter who does all the fighting. By the time they actually kill the Shredder, it's like...whatever,we dragged this out for 5 seasons.
Oh,April having telekinetic powers? Important for exactly one  episode. The forgotten,like everything.
And since Im ranting...movie parodies. Something that the FW did well, actually. Because,it had almost no continuity and was selfaware that its doing sendoffs of 50's monster movies. Nick cartoon doesn't do parodies as much as watered down retellings. And since it's supposed to be serialized,it feels shoehorned and self-indulgent. Hey,lets stop the whole plot and do a whole episode of "Big trouble in little China". Hey,lets spend half a season jerking ourselves over "Friday the 13th" and "Nightmare on Elm Street."
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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #106 on: February 12, 2021, 03:22:12 AM »
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Hey,lets stop the whole plot and do a whole episode of "Big trouble in little China". Hey,lets spend half a season jerking ourselves over "Friday the 13th" and "Nightmare on Elm Street."

Now, on the one hand, that farm arc was an absolute nightmare. There are like three or four episodes of the whole thing worth watching. On the other hand, I actually like the Big Trouble in the Little China, if for no other reason than more James Hong is always a good thing and that episode had some solid foreshadowing about Irma. Which I totally caught, and pointed out at the time.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #107 on: February 12, 2021, 07:23:23 PM »
I mean,I like Big Trouble in little China,I just don't need it recreated in a TMNT cartoon.
Funny thing,but the farm arc of Nick cartoon also had Leo recovering from "vocal cord damage" because Jason Biggs got fired and replaced with Seth Green.

Yeah,the shorts from the 2003 cartoon...are either toy ads,or not really funny. Like Mikey steals the turtle-helicopter because he need to get to the comic shop,and then other beat him up or something like that. IIRC most of it is- Mikey does something stupid,somebody beats him up.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 08:33:57 PM by HarryTrotter »
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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #108 on: February 16, 2021, 09:08:02 PM »
https://youtu.be/LVuTCDB1iMc

There was a Superbowl ad for Paramount+ (which is the same thing as CBSAA,I think?). Notice 2003 Leo next to RuPaul. There is a sentence I never expected to say.
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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #109 on: February 17, 2021, 02:05:40 AM »
Hey now, that's a Superbowl ad right there!  :thumbup:

They kinda did Ready Player One better in 1 minute of footage (yeah, I had it on on tv the other night for a few minutes; wasn't really impressed).

That ad did its job, which is letting you know what's on the streaming service, and yeah, seeing 2003 Leo on there makes me happy. I'm curious if they drew that new. I'm like 50/50 on whether or not they did.

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #110 on: February 17, 2021, 08:39:06 AM »
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They kinda did Ready Player One better in 1 minute of footage (yeah, I had it on on tv the other night for a few minutes; wasn't really impressed).
Member berries the movie. Just watch the Gundam vs MechaGodzilla clip and you are good.

I saw some people say its new animation, but I wouldn't really bet on that. Nice of Paramount to remember the show anyway.
I wouldn't hope for a revival,but I think after 12 years and 2 shows, people would be ready to see it. Or at least some elements from it. Reminder that IDW teased Battle Nexus 7 years ago.
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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #111 on: February 17, 2021, 09:44:39 AM »
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Member berries the movie. Just watch the Gundam vs MechaGodzilla clip and you are good.

I'm good without that. I'm pretty sure I saw Duke Nukem in the first 10-15 minutes. I'd rather watch actual Gundam. I still got a season and change of Iron Blooded Orphans to get through.

The movie also featured some of the worst "Show don't tell" of any movie I've ever seen. Just massive narration explaining the world at the start. Anyway....

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I wouldn't hope for a revival,but I think after 12 years and 2 shows, people would be ready to see it. Or at least some elements from it. Reminder that IDW teased Battle Nexus 7 years ago.

If you mean that annual, I don't think that was ever meant to promise a return to it. I never expected that myself.

As for the rest, the word I like to use is "exploit". As near as I can tell, Paramount owns all TMNT except maybe Next Mutation, and yet they spread the 2003, 2012 and Rise across three streaming services, because Greed Without Limits. I don't even KNOW if the Fred Wolfe version is available on any service.

Paramount/Nick will use elements for new iterations, but that's all. We don't even get a crossover in the world of a new TMNT. 2012 crossed over with FW multiple times until the gag got a bit stale (but enough about S5) yet no 2003 crossover at all.
Now, granted, 2003/2012 wouldn't be a particularly interesting juxtaposition. The most interesting juxtaposition would be the change from traditional animation to CGI, which 2012 already did with FW (while I'm on the subject, Krang's robot body looked atrocious in that show's CGI art style.)

Now on the other hand...... 2003/Rise.....c'mon, you know you wanna see that business. And if it's animated by the animation team from Rise....oh boy. Now THAT'S a Netflix movie worth making.

Speaking of which, The Rise movie is supposed to be about the Kraang, and we already saw what they looked like by the end of Rise, and I gotta say, they do look sweet.

To return to the TMNT comparison, if I may be so bold, Mirage is Maniac Mansion (simple, but effective and impressive for its time, and a little bit dangerous),  FW is Day of the Tentacle (a quality product, but one that undeniably turned the original into something considerably zanier) and 2003 is Thimbleweed Park (playful and with genuine affection for its spiritual predecessor, but, like Wandavision, with something ominous and threatening sneaking in around the margins). Appropriately, TP was the one I enjoyed the most, and would most like to see get a followup. Rise, appropriately, features a Day of the Dead-style skeleton who could have come straight out of Grim Fandango.

2012 is, of course, one of those games that switches genres and tones as you play it to deliberately contrast and confuse the player (Inversion, Frog Fractions, Pony Island). Though I probably like those a lot more than the 2012. Again, I am a morbid fellow.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 10:14:12 AM by Silver Shocker »

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #112 on: February 17, 2021, 10:40:28 AM »
IIRC the annual ends with Timelords saying they should totally organize a tournament and call it Battle Nexus. It could have been just a continuity nod,or a setup for something along the line. They can basically get around to it whenever if they decide to do it.
I think Nick/Viacom only got TMNT to get the original cartoon and try to recreate its success. "If we believe hard enough,it will be 1988 again" has been their approach since 2012. And I don't even want to think about the upcoming movie reboot by Seth Rogen.
 Now about the original cartoon...I think it was on Netflix once? I doubt its there anymore.
Btw,I hate this mess with streaming services. They are now in a position where cable channels were 15 years ago,so that worked out great in the end.
2012 crossovers also hit a lot of same notes as Turtles forever. Down to new turtles making fun of the belt buckles with initials.
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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #113 on: February 17, 2021, 11:07:35 AM »
IIRC the annual ends with Timelords saying they should totally organize a tournament and call it Battle Nexus. It could have been just a continuity nod,or a setup for something along the line. They can basically get around to it whenever if they decide to do it.
I think Nick/Viacom only got TMNT to get the original cartoon and try to recreate its success. "If we believe hard enough,it will be 1988 again" has been their approach since 2012.

There's only so many times I can say the same thing without beating a dead horse with another dead horse.

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And I don't even want to think about the upcoming movie reboot by Seth Rogen.

Nor do I. Though, like I said, I desperately want them to take a break on the TMNT for a while, unless they do any of the things I suggested earlier in the thread, but I guess that's not how it works.

On the other hand, binging the Men in Black and Ghostbusters cartoons last year really left me thinking both of those properties deserve another try in animated form (and GB is supposed to get it) MiB the series wasn't perfect, and some of it was pretty bad, but in some respects it was superior to the movie sequels (though that's not saying a lot)

On the other hand, if things turned out differently, TMNT could have easily been a cinematic universe if they pulled it off. Maybe in an alternate universe....

Shredder: A multiverse of Turtles!!!

Also, fun fact: in the 2012, they avoid ever calling themselves the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - I never noticed that - and that gag continues into Rise with Raph calling the four of them + April - and I promise I am not making this up - "The Mad Dogs".

 
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Now about the original cartoon...I think it was on Netflix once? I doubt its there anymore.

If it was, it was either region-specific or it was before March 7, 2014, because I got Netflix for The Lost Missions season of The Clone Wars and it's never been on there. If it was, I would have watched it.

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Btw,I hate this mess with streaming services. They are now in a position where cable channels were 15 years ago,so that worked out great in the end.

Again, dead horse.

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2012 crossovers also hit a lot of same notes as Turtles forever. Down to new turtles making fun of the belt buckles with initials.

Again, for me the novelty was the clashing art styles and getting back Cam Clarke and the rest, but as I've mentioned many times before, I'd rather have an enriching and entertaining story than pretty visuals. TMNT 2003 wasn't even a bad looking show (outside of Fast Forward, anyway)

Heck, you could do another animated crossover with one of the other iterations of TMNT, that would at least be kinda interesting in the moment. And if would be utterly hilarious to see, say, the 1989 and Rise fans go to war for 10 + years because one crossover movie made fun of at least one of those two iterations.

I've already seen evidence online that Rise fans are salty as hell at 1) What they view as Nick screwing over the show and getting it cancelled 2) The very inference online that Rise sucked. "It got better" they will say. Yes, it did get better, in the last two or three episodes of both seasons. That's still called a bad show.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 03:25:52 PM by Silver Shocker »

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #114 on: February 17, 2021, 11:52:24 AM »
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If it was, it was either region-specific or it was before March 7, 2014, because I got Netflix for The Lost Missions season of The Clone Wars and it's never been on there. If it was, I would have watched it.
I might be misremembering something,ofc. After a google search,I see the cartoon is on Amazon Prime.

I tend to repeat myself,I know. And we cover the same ground from time to time.
MiB and Real Ghostbusters lend themselves nicely to episodic stories. You have a different case every episode with a different ghost/alien.
Real Ghostbusters was really good while JMS was on it(ice-cold take,I know). After that it just descends into 80's cartoon shenenigans. Thou I did like the episode where they parody the TMNT with a trio of reptilian pizza obsessed ghosts. Their leader was even voiced by Leonardo.
Back in the day,I kept confusing MiB the series and Roswell Conspiracy. Because idk,they dealt with aliens and I was like 7. Btw, Roswell Conspiracy is getting a reboot,so I might get around to rewatching it before that.
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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #115 on: February 17, 2021, 01:45:39 PM »
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If it was, it was either region-specific or it was before March 7, 2014, because I got Netflix for The Lost Missions season of The Clone Wars and it's never been on there. If it was, I would have watched it.
I might be misremembering something,ofc. After a google search,I see the cartoon is on Amazon Prime.

Interesting. As I understand, Amazon Prime's content also varies from region to region. I'll probably look into it a bit later.

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MiB and Real Ghostbusters lend themselves nicely to episodic stories. You have a different case every episode with a different ghost/alien.

Indeed. I've heard MiB described as Ghostbuster's spiritual successor. Which it kinda is. But RIPD (Rest in Peace Department) seemed to be "Men in Black with Ghosts" in a far more direct and literal sense.

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Real Ghostbusters was really good while JMS was on it(ice-cold take,I know). After that it just descends into 80's cartoon shenenigans.

Yup.

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Thou I did like the episode where they parody the TMNT with a trio of reptilian pizza obsessed ghosts. Their leader was even voiced by Leonardo.
That one's neat for the sheer novelty of it, but it's definitely from the decidedly "not good" chunk of the show. And while the leader was voiced by Cam Clarke, he was doing a variation of his Rocksteady voice that ends up functionally being a parody of the way Mikey talks. Because TMNT equals "Cowabunga! Pizza! Radical!" because shallow reference pool. And the Real Ghostbusters did the same thing with a family of ghosts very broadly based on the Simpsons. That one was particularly "not good."

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Back in the day,I kept confusing MiB the series and Roswell Conspiracy. Because idk,they dealt with aliens and I was like 7. Btw, Roswell Conspiracy is getting a reboot,so I might get around to rewatching it before that.

Not very familiar with that series. Perhaps they had a similar enough art style to make one remind you of the other? From what I've seen of it, it does look broadly similar.

MiB the series has a very similar problem as MiB 2, which I've read directly resulted in this problem being in MiB 2 (wouldn't surprise me). Because Jack Jeeves the alien pawn shop guy, Frank the Pug, and the coffee drinking alien worms were memorable characters in one or two scenes in the original movie, they have to return in bigger roles in what is functionally an out-of-context exaggerated caricature version of their original role. They all had whole episodes about them in the cartoon, most of which were really bad, and aliens couldn't just drink coffee in the break room; it became their own sole purpose in life and their entire alien species' culture revolved around it. It's like if Martian Manhunter's entire character got written around his fondess for Choc-O's. Then you have Frank. the original gag, as always the case in MiB, was that this unassuming person was an alien in disguise, and so Frank the Pug becomes....an alien that looks almost exactly like his dog form.

They also made the rookie mistake of A) Assuming J was a complete moron and slacker because Will Smith equals funny (he was almost more like a poorly written Fresh Prince than J) and B) Thinking "Edgar" was the bug's name, AND that the bug actually sounded like Vincent D'onofrio, even though in the movie we hear his original voice, and it sounded nothing like that.

On the other hand, Alpha was a genuinely great villain. A rogue MiB founder voiced by David Warner, who returns in multiple episodes, often with direct story continuity, and a drastically different visual design every episode (he stole alien body parts to upgrade his "final form" like a DBZ villain or somesuch)? Actually very impressive. He almost elevated the whole show by being in it.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 01:48:10 PM by Silver Shocker »

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #116 on: February 17, 2021, 02:53:45 PM »
Yeah,Roswell Conspiracies was pretty good...and pretty hard to find these days. It also shared a good chuck of its writing staff with TMNT 2003,Gargoyles and basically every other thing from that era. Also,both it and MiB involve secret agencies covering up the existence of aliens,so thats probably why I used to mix those two up.
Another Real Ghostbusters episode in that vein (at least the one I remember) had them going to Japan and fighting knockoffs of Godzilla and his enemies. There is also this annoying kid sidekick who speaks with Rs instead of Ls,and the whole episode just becomes a torture to watch.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 04:59:49 PM by HarryTrotter »
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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #117 on: February 21, 2021, 12:02:27 PM »
Last Ronin #2 If this keeps up,it will be an amazing miniseries. Even if we saw plenty of bad futures before. Also,Karai wears Elektra's costume for some...okay,obvious reason.
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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #118 on: February 21, 2021, 02:00:25 PM »
Sai through the chest with the end getting stuck in the cloth?  ^_^

Also I think Karai's design has had some broad similarities to Elektra in most iterations.

It's really that good, eh? Interesting. The bad future premise is the reason I wasn't planning to opt into it actually.

Considering I pick up the trades for every TMNT that's connected to the IDW ongoing narrative (and also the crossovers) do you recommend this? I seem to recall you mentioning the IDW bringing future versions of characters anyway.

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Re: Everybody's Favorite Mutated Reptiles Are Back in Action
« Reply #119 on: February 21, 2021, 03:48:52 PM »
That's how she dies actually. Spoiler I guess,if the premise didn't already made that obvious.

Its a standalone,not really connected to IDW universe. Or Mirage,for that matter.  But I do recommend it. Its Eastman and Laird writing Ninja Turtles after some 20 years,what more could I say.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
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